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Starsky, you have the gift of truth on your side. God dwells in you for sure.

Quote:
Affairs often implode on their own once the mystery and intrigue have been removed, and both affair partners have to deal with each other on a daily, real-life basis.


I certainly agree with this. Once the diamond studded fantasy becomes the cheap intimation reality and the Other People (Sorry I can't stand acronyms) start having to deal with your spouses crap, it will end soon enough.

Last edited by Jefe; 10/01/14 03:01 AM.

Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
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Bart42 Offline OP
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Thanks, Starsky- I will stay the course. Sent a gentle “mediators are available these dates” email to W- she took a while to respond and came back with “Let's talk this weekend. I would like to think we will not need them.” So seems we are on the verge of R talk. Recall I’m travelling so this is all txt at this point and we won’t have a chance to talk before the weekend. I think I am going to respond with “I thought we agreed mediation was the preferred course- I’m not sure how delay and us talking more will help, but as the first date is a few weeks out we can discuss when I get back.”

Now I have to prepare for my response when she raises the R this weekend. Haven’t done much reading on the boards about setting/enforcing ground rules for discussing R but I need to understand how I best set boundaries/ground rules around NC and transparency while also not turning the “breakthrough” discussion into a demand/negotiation session.

Last edited by Bart42; 10/01/14 06:41 PM.

Me: 45 W:43
M: 15, T:21
2 Kids- S-14, D-12
A Started: 10/2013
Discovered as EA: 6/2014, as PA: 7/2014
A changing, not ending
Start DB'ing 9/2014
Same house, same bed
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I'm not a big fan of heavy convos while spouses are still in their affairs. This, from my personal archives:


Types of Convos

Exactly. Here's the thing: if someone is in an ongoing, unrepentant affair, there are only a few types of conversations/communications they can have with their betrayed spouse, and ALL of them are cheeseless tunnels for the BS:

1) NEGATIVE ones. Blame-making, re-writing marital history, angry outbursts, fight-picking, etc. 'nuff said.

2) Seemingly POSITIVE ones. So long as they are still in contact with OM/OW and lying to their spouse about it, these are all "bullchit spin" at best, and outright GASLIGHTING and LIES at worse. And the problem is, the betrayed spouse inevitably sees this as "baby steps!" and true marital progress, when they are no such thing. They can lead to horrible strategic and tactical mistakes, esp. if the BS doesn't have a good intel system in place. Reading my old journal yesterday, I was BLOWN AWAY at how stable I was able to be in the face of my wife's deceit, simply because I HAD INTEL TO SHOW ME OTHERWISE. This can't be overemphasized.

3) LEGAL/FINANCIAL ones. These are best handled by your attorney, for the obvious reasons. If you start negotiating yourself, when you are way, way, WAY too emotionally entrenched in the situation (and also often running on too-little sleep and WAY too-little emotional needs of your own being met), YOU WILL MAKE FOOLISH MISTAKES and UNWISE CONCESSIONS.

4) FAMILY/LOGISTICAL ones. These are fine, but best handled via e-mail or text message. A cheating spouse will use these as a ploy to lure you into R convos and worse; SEE #1 ABOVE.

5) SMALL-TALK. This is fine, but only in RESPONSE -- don't initiate it if your strategy is to go "dim" and if it's to go "dark" you shouldn't even respond. If it's "dim," then only respond to one of every several communications, and usually delayed, because you're BUSY and GETTING A LIFE, remember?


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Boundaries are HARD. Read up, then read some more. Practice over and over. Say them out loud. Try to take all of the "controlling" out of your words.


M42 W40
T17
M15
S13 S11
BD 7-14
A discovered 7-14
WAW moved out 10-3-14
D final 2-23-15
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Good stuff, Starsky


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 64
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Bart42 Offline OP
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Starsky, my read (admittedly with no intel as I am not in snoop mode presently) is that A ended (at least temporarily) Monday and W now wants to explore me as plan B/ restart our R talks. That seems pretty clear to me from her txt today. Are you saying I should treat her as still "in" the A and avoid the R talk as there is no positive outcome per your list?

If she's still not truthful about the A when we talk this weekend, there will be no discussion of R, as I will shut it down, but if she is truthful, I want to have a game plan.

Any thoughts on my planned response to her txt of today? Want to be sure I get the message and tone right.


Me: 45 W:43
M: 15, T:21
2 Kids- S-14, D-12
A Started: 10/2013
Discovered as EA: 6/2014, as PA: 7/2014
A changing, not ending
Start DB'ing 9/2014
Same house, same bed
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
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I can only tell you what I would do. I'm not the average bird around here, as I will *NEVER* understand why we advise people to basically fly in the thick fog (the gaslighting and fog of their cheating spouse's infidelity), with no instruments (intel). But if I had no independent verification that an affair had ended, and if I had already been (and continued to be) lied to about said affair . . . then I would proceed under the assumption that:

a) it is either still going on; or

b) she wanted to be ABLE to re-ignite it at some point; or

c) she was either with an OM2 or was actively seeking one.


But that's just me. And I would never, ever discuss any legal details with someone with whom I had an active legal matter pending.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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You can always just LISTEN, and not give more than general "Hmmm; I'm not sure how I feel about that anymore," or "Hmmmmm, I'll have to give that some thought. I'll get back to you on that" or "I'm afraid it's not that simple anymore" type of statements.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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starsky,
Do you reccomend that approach for non R talks also?


M42 W40
T17
M15
S13 S11
BD 7-14
A discovered 7-14
WAW moved out 10-3-14
D final 2-23-15
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
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Generally, no, unless your talking legal or financial talks, in which case YES.

For everyday topics, a betrayed spouse should try to NOT be the one to initiate them, but once engaged they should be a great listener, make great eye contact, generally be a great and involved conversationalist. But then be the one to wrap up the conversation because they have somewhere to be/something to do.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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