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Bart42 Offline OP
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DB’ers- Newbie here reaching out for some emergency help because with all the rookie mistakes I made. I’ve only got only a few days to 180 my previous actions if that’s the right course. I just sent the Harley “Since you can’t end your affair I want a separation” letter. Predictable (non)results from the W. Only found this site, MWD and DR after sending the letter and now am seeking your guidance to figure out if I should backtrack and if so whether I go all the way to 180/ Step five or if instead I should employ some degree of the LRT.

Vitals:

Me: 45, W- 43, Married 15, Together 21, S-14 D-12. A started Fall 2013; Discovered early June 2014; Ultimatum issued (prematurely) early September 2014.

Short Version:

W is fully in the fog. Despite discovery, MC, and all the talks and promises of “working on the marriage” and “ending the A” the A continues. W has denied and only admitted what she had to every step of the way. W now adamantly denies the A continues but I have absolute proof. I was a wreck and at the end of my rope so I sent her the “Since you can’t end your affair I want a separation” letter Harley recommends. No change- denial continues. But DB and the threads here have given me new hope and I want to try and save this- before we go through separation or she becomes a WAW. I’m now not ready to separate yet, but if I totally retreat I will lose all credibility- so how do I pull back the “lets separate” without losing credibility or her believing my 180 is a ploy?

Complicating this is the fact that although I’ve been “amazing and level headed in dealing with the A” (her words), her desire all along has been to “work on things” (we still have date nights, fun talks, watch TV together, etc.) which I think means one of two things:

1. She really is confused and although she is in love with the OM, she has reservations about whether she has a future with him but also may not believe our marriage can be saved (she has mentioned several times the “Too Good to Leave Too Bad to Stay” book). She is truly torn and undecided what to do.

2. She is stringing me along to buy time because the OM ‘s live-in girlfriend is about to kick him out (she also found out about the A) and the W needs time for OM to get set up in his new place so the two of them are only dealing with one problem at a time. (I saw references to this in her TM to the OM but it may just be a line she is feeding him too). In which case I’m the sucker facilitating the A if I don’t separate.

Options/Next Steps:

I think way my only hope at this point is to stay and DB like crazy until either I hit the wall, she ends the A, or she goes WAW. So I’ve got the 37 rules printed out and have been upbeat the last two days (trying not to overdo it) and my thought is to say to her that “I’m glad you agreed to the separation and I believe that is the best way forward for us to potentially save this marriage. But you asked for some time to think and sort things out for yourself before we pursue separation. If that will mean a more orderly separation process that is better for us and the kids I’m willing to give you time to think before seeing a separation mediator.” Good plan or pipedream?
Sorry for the long rambling post, but like most guys here I’m lost and don’t know where to turn- on the one hand, its “only” been three months post-discovery of her A but on the other hand the A is nearly a year old, she is refusing to say it is active and I’ve got her agreed to at least talk terms for a separation. So if now is the time for LRT (I don’t think it is because I’m not at the end of my rope and she isn’t walking out the door) I don’t want to simply slide back to facilitating the A because it’s easier to stay than go at this point. DB from here or continue to push the separation? Really appreciate any and all thoughts.



Last edited by Cristy; 09/09/14 04:07 PM.
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Welcome to the board

Get out and GAL.

DETACH.


Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.

Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.

USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


Me-70, D37,S36
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Wet Offline
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Hi Bart42, you are in the right place. A couple of 2x4's first:

- Don't give ultimatums without being willing to enforce them.

- And 2nd, you are mind-reading (see points 1 and 2, above). Start detaching, which is your best hope for yourself.

Now you wrote that W denies the affair after you gave her the ultimatum, so do you have undeniable proof that she is continuing the affair? Isn't the easy way out of your dilemma to assume she is telling the truth? Best wishes.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

“The strongest of all warriors are these two — Time and Patience.” War and Peace
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You already sent it (and I personally think it was the right thing to do), so I would stay with that firm course, otherwise you will TOTALLY lose all credibility and respect with her. Apply the after-the-LRT technique, and go as dim as possible considering you have the kids.

Why are you still going on date nights if she is in an active affair?


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Originally Posted By: Wet
Isn't the easy way out of your dilemma to assume she is telling the truth?



It's been my observation both in DBing and in life that the "easy way out" is rarely the correct one.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Bart42 Offline OP
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Thanks, all- appreciate the quick support.

Wet, The A definitely continues- before I learned how destructive snooping was, I saw all the txts about the meetups, hotel rooms, etc. I've shown her proof (such as plane tickets with his name on them) to her before she admitted to the PA and she just denied, so putting the proof in front of her this time will do no good, but I am sure the PA continues.

I don't want to lose creditability, but I've got newfound strength from coming here and from DR, and I don't think I am ready to give up after three months. I didn't tell her "end it or else" but instead simply stated that I wanted to separate b/c I could not continue with our marriage while the A continued. I'm still thinking perhaps I can walk a fine line here and say I still want to separate, that I will not work on our marriage, but after 15 years of marriage I can give her a little time to find her center and get in a good place, for her sake and for the kids, before we start the separation process. I can maybe do that while going dark and GAL without starting the separation process rolling. At least that's my (current) hope.

BTW, all the "date nights" were before I knew she had never ended it.


Me: 45 W:43
M: 15, T:21
2 Kids- S-14, D-12
A Started: 10/2013
Discovered as EA: 6/2014, as PA: 7/2014
A changing, not ending
Start DB'ing 9/2014
Same house, same bed
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Posts: 6,810
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Originally Posted By: Bart42
I'm still thinking perhaps I can walk a fine line here and say I still want to separate, that I will not work on our marriage, but after 15 years of marriage I can give her a little time to find her center and get in a good place . . .




"Blccccch."
sick sick laugh "Find her center" ??? confused

If you told her you needed to separate yourself if her affair continued, then you need to back it up. Have you asked her to leave?


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Originally Posted By: Bart42


BTW, all the "date nights" were before I knew she had never ended it.




I'm confused. You just posted this morning that you "still have date nights, fun talks, watch TV together, etc" ??? confused


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Bart42 Offline OP
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Starsky, sorry for any rambling or bad editing. Two main "recovery" periods- after I initially found out about the A, and again after I found out it was a PA not just an EA. After each, we worked back to date nights, movies on the couch, good family vacations, handholding, basic smooching, spooning, etc. The basics. After Labor Day, when I found out she's been lying and it never ended, there has been none of that.

Don't take my "find the center" comments too literally. Her life is a mess- perhaps a little MLC (although I don't want to "blame" MLC as I see here its easy to slide into long term cake eating if you're not careful), her sports injury which has removed workouts (her main stress relief) from her life; insane job pressures (she's in a high pressure full time tech job), our marriage problems which were definitely there for a few years, then dealing with all my demands around ending the A. Not making excuses for her but recognizing she is a mess and her claims of needing calmness so she can deal with all these pressures and figure out what's best for her may have a decent element of truth in it. Believe what you observe, right- well she spend Sunday basically shut down on a lounge chair in the backyard despite repeated pleas from S to do something (I was with D at sports. So the statements around needing time to sort things may not be 100% about keeping me as Plan B (then again maybe I'll get served tomorrow).


Me: 45 W:43
M: 15, T:21
2 Kids- S-14, D-12
A Started: 10/2013
Discovered as EA: 6/2014, as PA: 7/2014
A changing, not ending
Start DB'ing 9/2014
Same house, same bed
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
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Originally Posted By: Bart42
Not making excuses for her but . . .



Yeah, you kinda are. wink


If this is what she wants, then let her put on her BGPs and start to feel what it's like to lose you. You need to know that when she has stressors in her life -- even legitimate ones -- she's not going to turn to serial infidelity to soothe herself and her problems. And she needs to learn healthier (and more appropriate!) ways of dealing with them too.

Did she agree to any sort of a transparency plan with you after the first affair discovery? Too often us betrayed spouses are so relieved that our wives or husbands want to come back to the marriage, that we fail to put proper boundaries in place.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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