This is Bob-Still hanging on

[Bob1967]

My thread locked. I don't know how to link this thread to my old one. If someone tells me I will attach the link.

I appreciate the advice people have given but I realize I don't have the right tools in my toolbox. I don't know what kind of tools to put in my toolbox. And, in all honesty, I've always been hopeless when using tools.

[KGirl]

In your last thread you said you were done and weren't going to be in another relationship again. So are you still done? Or are you interested in trying to work on this? I would guess you're still interested or you wouldn't still be here, posting another thread!

I don't remember seeing more background details in your original thread, other than you were married for 9 years. How old are you and your W? How long did you date before you were married? You mention that your W was your first physical partner - was she also your first serious relationship? Did you start dating young?

Besides DR/DB, it might help to read some other well-known books on relationships, if you have not already. There are a number of books by Gottman out there that are very useful (such as "The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work").

You mentioned before that someone had told you you were passive aggressive. Maybe researching more tools for communicating assertively would be helpful, before you even get to tools specifically about marriage. There's a book called "Codependency for Dummies" and there is a great section about communicating needs and taking positions. One part specifically discusses how to take a stand and say what you want/don't want, instead of reacting and being indirect. For example:
A: Do you want to go to X place with me today? [forces partner to be responsible for going]
B: I don't really like going there. Do you want me to? [BETTER, takes a position instead of reacting and asks A to take a position]
A: I went somewhere else with you when I didn't want to. If you don't want to go, I'll find someone else [manipulative, avoidant]

The gist of that is that each person takes a position, rather than reacting to each other. Do you see yourself in these types of patterns? Instead of each person reacting to each other, it'd be better if A could say "I need to go to X place. I'd really like it if you came with me. Would you come?" Then B says "Yes" or "No". Based on the conversations you had with the dog, you were asking her indirectly to see him without just coming out and saying it. Why is that? Is it because then she wouldn't ask you so you could con't to be resentful towards her for not figuring out what you wanted (whereas if you just asked and she said yes, sshe'd be being nice, and that didn't fit with your schema?) Is it because you were scared of being rejected?

Google "active listening." It's not the only tool people need but it's definitely a start. Most people when conversing aren't really listening to the other person. They're already thinking in their heads about what they will say in response to what the othe other person said, or how they can contribute ("Your day was tough? Well MY day.." or "That happened to me once too! It went like this..."). Active listening is a good tool to practice in any conversation to help you really start to listen and understand what people are saying, rather than just "hearing" them. There is a difference.

[Hope414]

Before you completely destroy your life you need a reality check.

Let’s start with an obvious observation.

Bob, your wife is not going to call you. She is not coming back. She is not going to beg forgiveness. If you file divorce papers—file them with an expectation that she won’t stop you this time. Unless you want another man living in your house, mowing your lawn, playing with your dog and making love to your wife you must stop harassing your wife.

How are you harassing your wife? By being the silent, long suffering victim. Things didn’t turn out the way you wanted so you quit your marriage. Boo hoo.

This tactic worked the last time but it obviously isn’t working this time. I do not care what type of man you think you are but I don’t think you are any different than the abusive husband she divorced. If I see this…so does she.

You repeatedly referenced an 11 page letter she wrote. This appears to be the last real communication she had with you. I suggest you actually read it. Not as a pouting child but as a man who wants to heal his broken marriage.

Your phobia about yelling makes me wonder if you were abused as a child. Was screaming the precursor to physical violence? Is this why you are so frightened by it?

Sometimes when abused children become adults they try to provoke action to mimic similar behavior from their childhood. If screaming and physical violence was normal during your childhood you may have been “baiting” your wife into mimicking this behavior.

Problems seem to arise because your wife refused to cross the line into physical violence. This seemed to frustrate you because you are determined to make your wife an “abuser.” If childhood experiences taught you screaming is the precursor to physical violence then you have already concluded your wife is “abusive.” The only thing lacking is the actual act of violence.

Bob based on everything you written, I do not think your wife as an abusive woman. But I do think you are a man who knows how to push buttons when he wants to make someone angry.

Yes, yelling is wrong. But knowing someone’s vulnerability and manipulating it as a weapon is evil. You have shared enough emails to clearly show your wife is terrified of being abandoned.

So why did you keep bullying her with threats of abandonment? Why did you send divorce papers? Then hire an attorney? Then file for a divorce without her knowledge? Then force her to sign a document agreeing she allow you to file for a divorce again? Then refuse to commit to the marriage once you were living in the house again?

A terrified animal will attack if cornered. Why did you use her terror of divorce against her?

You said you hated discussions about your relationship but she fears abandonment. Don’t you think this attitude would terrify her after you abandoned her?

You said her “favorite phrase” is you “dissolved her life without her permission.”

I think it adequately captures the horror of what you did to her. You baited her with her deepest fears, disliked the monster you created so you dissolved her life. What a terrible thing to do to someone!

How do you see yourself as a husband?

I see an emotionally abusive, immature man-child who seeks blame instead of ownership.

[Hope414]

I think KGirl brings up very good points about communication. I would also like to offer my thoughts about the dog.

Your wife hasn’t been the controller of information--you have.

The only reason you learned the dog was sick was because your wife contacted you.

You said you choose not to answer your phone and you choose to let it go to voice mail. You made an assumption what was in the voice mail. Then you choose not to listen to it until the next day. You ignored your wife. Face it Bob, you controlled the entire communication process that night, not her.

I think it was very cruel how your treated her that evening. She was obviously distraught when she called. I say this because this has been her only unsolicited contact with you.

She didn’t call about “your relationship.” She called about a potential tragedy and needed a strong shoulder. Unfortunately she picked a very weak shoulder (by your own admission).

You said she called at 8:00 pm and left a voice mail. Then sent a medical update by text at 9:30. At 10:30 she sent a text saying she would be home in an hour. She never got a response.

How alone do you think she felt all evening?

When you finally respond the next morning what do you say? Do you ask if she is okay? Do you acknowledge the awful night she must have experienced?

The first thing you do is lie about why you didn’t respond. Then explain your willingness to miss a football game so you can be with the dog (she must understand you are sacrificing). You offer to pay the bill and never ask how she is doing. You also promise to call but never do. Is this your normal communication style?

I don’t see her behavior as punishing at all. To the contrary. I think she gave you a great deal of information considering the urgency in with you severed legal ties with her. Remember? You filed legal separation papers not her. You drafted a settlement document. You even sent an email to remind her.

A genuine 180 for you is to call and apologize to your wife about how insensitive you were about the dog’s medical situation. You need to explain how you love the dog but not as much as you love her. She is your wife and you should take every opportunity to tell her how important she is to you.

This is your starting point Bob. This is what she keeps asking you for. You think ignoring her is the key. It is not. Read what you write. She needs to know she is important to you. Ignoring her will destroy your marriage.

[Bob1967]

Thanks for the information KGirl. My therapist works with me on active listening skills.

My wife and I met when I was in my mid-twenties. We were friends for years before we started dating. She was a pretty active dater. I was not.

A year before we started dating my wife made a decision not to date for a whole year. She said she was just plain worn out.

This was great news for me since I hated watching her go out. I became her "plus one" for events. Eventually she fell in love with me.

We dated for a year. Got engaged. We were engaged for about 16 months and then got married. If you totaled up how much time we knew each other before we got married it was probably about 10 years. I was 35 when we got married.

My wife was in no hurry to get married and neither was I. Neither wanted to live in the other's home so we sold both properties and bought our house. Things like that pushed the wedding back.

We didn't live together before we were married. That was something neither of us was comfortable doing. It was an all or nothing commitment for us.

[Cristy]

Hi Hope414,
We're happy you are here. Most of the time when people are offering advice/feedback, they have already shared their story on the forum. We all want to support each other & will be happy to support you too. Is your story here?

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[Bob1967]

In response to Hope:

I did not grow up with yelling. My house was very calm. My parents didn't yell and neither did my brothers and sisters.

I would describe my childhood as almost ideal. My parents had/have a very happy marriage. I come from a very close family. We call each other once a week. We constantly email each other. I can count on them for anything.

Anger is not a common emotion in my family. I was not taught to give this emotion respect. We did not speak to each other in anger.

When I left in June 2013, I was running. I wanted her to stop yelling at me. I couldn't make her stop yelling so I filed for a divorce.

I didn't think long-term about what it meant to file for a divorce.

I know it doesn't make sense.

I saw a divorce as a way to stop her yelling. Once she stopped yelling at me then we could go back to being happy.

[Riley]

Bob,

I come from a very similar household. My parents are on their first marriage, there was no yelling, there was no hitting or manipulation going on.

Also like yourself I ended up filing for D, she always brought it up and due to unfortunate circumstances I'm dead set on moving on with my life, single. From what I understand, it sounds like you still want to save yours?

I think its one of the rules in DR, but, do the opposite of what does not work brother. A certain behavioral set has caused you to appear on these boards, a new set of behaviors will take you off of these boards.

I'd recommend you look into "I love you, but I am not in love with you" by Andrew G. Marshall. This book explains why arguing is essential for growth in any relationship.

[Hope414]

Bob in previous posts you have said your wife will let you come home.

The problem has not been your wifes unwillingness to continue the marriage. The problem has been your unwillingness to move home without her apology.

Riley this is different than other people on the boards. Based on everything Bob has posted he can go home anytime he wants. His exile is self imposed. He wants his wife to apologize and do things his way. If she doesn't (according to Bob) he is willing to divorce her.

This is destructive. This is manipulative. Bob says he sees divorce as a way to stop her from yelling. He does not see divorce as the end their relationship. This is evident in the settlement agreement. He is giving her everything.

Why? Because he fully expects to reconcile once the yelling stops. Bob doesn't understand divorce is final.

Bob--divorce is final. It is not a "solution to a problem." It is death to a relationship.

You do not use divorce as a technique to stop fighting. It is not an avenue to get what you want.

Again: Bob your wife is not coming back. She is not going to call you. Your plan is not working.

If you divorce her--You will be divorced. You will lose everything: Your home, your dog and your wife.

[Bob1967]

I will always love my wife. I have a movie roll going in my head of the good times we had and just wish, hope and pray we can get back there.

It just seems that everything I says causes a fight. One time she spent the entire day telling me all my faults. She even said I was possessed by the devil.

I do not want to hurt her anymore. When I speak I cause her pain.

I never see myself with another person but I just cannot hurt her anymore. The longer I stayed in the house...and the more we talked...the more I upset her.

And then I lash out.

I am so sorry that I let her down. I am no better than the other people in her life. I just do not want to hurt her anymore.

I have not learned to be the husband she needed me to be and I am afraid I never will.

I truly want her to be free and happy. I don't want to be the person causing her problems.

I somehow put us in a terrible cycle but I have never learned how to stop the cycle.

I am giving her the majority of the assets so she can have security and build a future life without being in the terrible cycle I could not get us out of.

If I knew how to get us out of the cycle I would. But I cannot and I don't want to continue causing her pain.

She once described me as a monster and even a psycho path. She once said I enjoyed the chaos I caused. But I swear I do not want to be a monster or a psycho. I do not want to cause chaos.

To continually cause her pain and agony is wrong.

This is why I am trying to leave my wife with as much of the assets as possible--so she can build a new life without me causing her pain.

She told me when she divorced her second husband she was forced to pay his bills. But she wanted to get away from him so it was worth the money.

The idea of spending the rest of my life alone is not very appealing. But in comparison to causing her pain, causing her to lash, and then me lashing back...it seems kinder.

I do not claim to be noble or even the perfect victim.

I would describe me as an individual that failed at a marriage - the definition of unsuccessful.

But I would also describe me as a man that saw one thing he could do - quit hurting my spouse.

I may not be bright enough to learn how to be a good husband but if I am not a good husband then at least I will not be causing her anymore pain.

At least I can give her a chance for a better life.

My wife said I was a terrible husband toward the end. I do not want to be a terrible husband but I cannot learn how not to be terrible.

If I knew how to not be terrible I would be the perfect husband for her.

I wish she could know how terrible sorry I am.