MLC? Let it Be.

[LiveNow]

Ok, I hope this works...My previous (initial) thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2443182#Post2443182

Time for a new thread. It's been over a year for me since BD, and I finally feel like I'm starting to turn a corner. I attended my first meetup Friday night, for people in 'transition' (such as divorce, new in town, or death of a spouse, etc.). I really enjoyed myself. I wasn't even really nervous at all. A year ago I would have been terrified. But, I saw everyone else come in with apprehension on their faces, but by the time we all left, people were laughing, talking, smiling -- feeling better for having shared some of their troubles. I'm looking forward to going next time. Great experience. Made me feel like I was finally 'busting out' (did I steal that from someone on here?!) and moving forward into my own new life. (Never mind that I ended up seated next to a Woody Allen lookalike all night. Ha.) So that's a big step forward for me. I joined that group a year ago, but this was my first dinner with them.

I also re-started my Omega 3's and it's really made a difference, thank God. Things were looking SO bleak a week or so ago -- inside my head. Better now. Whew.

So, H and I still have not started mediation. Agreement (to use the mediator, pay the retainer, cooperate) was sitting on the kitchen counter for 10 days. He finally picked it up today. I left it up to him to do what he wants with it now that I've signed it. (Remember, he's a procrastinator, and disorganized to the max, in his MLC.)

H was here to cut the lawn this afternoon. Said he wanted to talk. I had e-mailed him last week letting him know the mediation agreement was here, signed, sitting on the counter. I also told him in that e-mail that I would have done whatever it took to save our marriage. And, that I don't hate him or blame him for everything. AND, that I had told him years ago that I didn't ever want to be a person standing in the way of his happiness. So, if DIVORCE is what would make him happy, I'm not standing in his way. (This is the very first time either of us has used the D word.) I felt like I needed to use it to slap him upside the head with the stark reality of it! This was a complete 180 for me. It's the first time I've actually DONE something to move this mess forward (signed the agreement). I finally let go and put it in God's hands.

Got a response e-mail immediately saying he would be by today, and that he 'had some things he wanted me know' and that he wanted to talk today, if I wanted to. So, he started off today by apologizing, again, for being such a terrible person to live with for past 7 or 8 years -- irritable, angry, impatient, blaming, complaining. He also had actually started reading the book I gave him (How We Love), and realized how I must have felt, living with him in that frame of mind (!).

I about fell out of my chair. FINALLY, looking inward, at himself. It was like the clouds parted and sunbeams came down from Heaven and shone on his head - and angels sang a lovely melody. I smiled from ear to ear - in my head. I just nodded, validated (yes - I did it!), and kept listening. This is HUGE for him. He blamed me for everything. He is a smart man, so I was SO shocked that he blamed me for it all a year ago. THIS is the thinking man I knew, just a glimpse of him. A moment of clarity. Someone recently said (was it Nitty?) that God is working on H, and it's beautiful, no matter what the outcome of our sitch. For the first time, I felt like, no matter where we end up, God is truly working on him now, forcing him to look at himself and fix what's wrong inside -- for himself.

That book taught me so much. It made me look WAY inward, and made me cry, realizing I was not the only one in the world being an 'avoider.' I knew if he read it, he would at least begin to understand me, and might even recognize himself in it.

I was starting to doubt he was in MLC and maybe was just a WAS. But, today, I know he is in MLC (even though he may be a combo of MLC/WAS). He's so conflicted about his job/career, not to mention his friends, family. Talked about quitting and building houses (he's in IT), working at the local home improvement store (!), something other than what he's doing. He's so unhappy. I really think living alone (for the last month or so) has begun to wake him up to his real life.

So through the entire conversation today, no mention of mediation or D. Just specifics like selling our vacation home (that i wanted to sell over a year ago anyway), his work, stuff like that -- stuff that would be taking place whether we D or not.

This is so amazing and fascinating to watch. And the compassion I had for him? It actually came back. I felt I had lost it completely lately. I know he's hurting and struggling mightily to sort things out and figure out what the heck is 'wrong with him.' Whew. I also know he won't be stuck in this forever, like some. He's too smart for that, and the self-awareness is beginning to grow. Whether I am going to be part of his future is anybody's guess - unlikely, I believe now. And I am no longer hanging my hat on that.

I'm planning my future, standing on my own two feet - no matter what. And it feels GREAT. I know I'll be ok, and I like myself so much better today than a year ago.

I'm not terribly religious, but God truly does work in mysterious ways, doesn't He? Fascinating. Happy Monday everyone. Gotta go watch my Lions on Monday night football!

[LiveNow]

Well, I decided I'm getting a tattoo in a few weeks. It will say: "Let it Be." I think it's a great idea. It's a reminder for me to accept what IS. After the word 'Be' there will be a small bird flying away.

The bird reminds me of a reoccurring dream I've had several times over the past 5 or 6 years (when there was already trouble brewing but I just didn't see it)...I was stuck in a basement somewhere with no way out, but I could see a doorway way far up, too far to reach. The only way out was to fly. I could never fly high enough to get out and I remember thinking 'Where is H? Why isn't he helping me?' Then, I had this dream again several months ago, but this time, I FLEW OUT - by myself, with wings. I still get goose bumps when I tell it.

Good feeling is hanging around. Omega 3's doing their thing. Looking forward to fall, whatever it brings...

[BrightFuture]

LiveNow, I truly enjoyed reading your recent posts. Your dream is quite interesting. I think it showed the shift inside of you. It seems like you are truly letting go. I know the feeling, I get it once in a while. I think it is getting stronger every day, but I still have some ways to go.

I also doubt from time to time that my H is in MLC. I think I posted this question a few times here. Maybe your H being a combo of MLC/WAS is actually a good thing. Like you said, he is starting to look inside, so hopefully he will come out of the fog sooner.

I like your idea of a tattoo will look like. I’m a chicken when it comes to decorating my body. I wear earrings, and this is it. Maybe I should get a tattoo too. This will sure shock H to the core, LOL.

[LiveNow]

Bright, I don't have any tattoos yet - this will be the first. I figure the pain of getting it will be a PIECE OF CAKE compared to the pain my H has put me through! Yes, it would shock my H too. I don't care. This one is for me, to remind me daily to let go of things as I think they 'should' be. And sort of a 'congratulations to me' thing, for getting through this past year. Something I'll never forget, and something that has changed me forever, in a good way. Do it Bright! :-) Something just for you...

About the dream - my counselor also suggested it might mean that I finally felt like I could stand on my own two feet, and that I didn't need my H to help me do that. I like telling people about the dream. I always get goose bumps...

[LiveNow]

So, during last Monday's tide-turning conversation with H, he said he had seen a counselor but had stopped. When I asked why, he said he didn't think it was helping, and that he needed to find someone who could delve deeper to help him identify what his issues really are. I've recently heard about a local psychologist who has a great reputation and was highly recommended, by more than one person I know.

Question: Is it 'pursuing' if I forward this person's contact information to H? Would I be 'helping' him (and I shouldn't)? Do I just let him find his own counselor? He does really seem to want to find help but doesn't know where to turn. I would do this for a friend, but what are some opinions out there, fellow DB'ers?

[Georgiabelle]

Live,

Don't try to solve his problems-that's his job. You said "he doesn't know where to turn for help." Really? There may be more to why he stopped IC. Perhaps he didn't like what IC said or encouraged him to do. Who really knows. You can listen, validate and if you choose, you can send him the contact info. Just don't expect anything. He's a big boy. Let him figure it out. Hang in there !

[job]

Live,
I'm thinking the same thing that Georgia is...there might be more to why he stopped seeing the IC. There's no way to tell and if he really and truly wanted someone who could really delve into his mind, he could have asked the IC for a referral or called around.

Listen and validate. As for the recommendation, I would mention it the next time you have a conversation, in person, text or on the phone. Don't be too quick to give it to him because it looks like you are attempting to fix him. Yes, he is most definitely a big boy and can figure things out and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised that he doesn't make an appointment or if he does, he'll find something wrong w/him/her as well.

Remember, you didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him. Hence, keep your expectations near zero or actually on zero. Keep the focus on you.

[LiveNow]

Thanks GB and Job. I think I will sit on it for a while, maybe mention it next time I see him. It just hurts to see him hurting so much. I am not generally a 'fixer' and my brain knows I can't fix him, but I guess maybe my heart is still learning that lesson. <sigh>

[mleigh4]

Hi livenow. Question for you. Did you initiate the mediation or did your H? My H keeps saying he wants to do this but of course never gets it done. I am at the end of my rope and wondering if my H sees what divorce will look like on paper, if it might wake him up a little? I am curious about your sitch and who set the appt to begin it.

[LiveNow]

mleigh4, he initiated it. H said in April (for the umpteenth time) he wanted to 'end the marriage.' Said he would find a mediator to use. That took him about 3 months, said he found one, gave me her contact info, I called her (like I was supposed to) so she could explain the general process, and she said that the next steps would be signing the mediation agreement, and then setting up our first appointment. I talked to her in early August, and we've now had the agreement in our hands for at least a month. Have set up no appointment yet. Ball is in his court, for now.

You might be right -- once they begin to see the stark reality of it, it might make a difference. When I told H that I signed the agreement, in an e-mail, I also said that I wouldn't stand in the way of his happiness, and if divorce was what would make him happy, I wasn't standing in his way. First time either one of us ever used the D word. Figured it was time. I think this was me 'lovingly detaching'?? And me making sure he knew what exactly he was getting into...

[LiveNow]

So, it's been a while, and I thought I would journal about what's been happening, which is, NOTHING. <heavy sigh> It's been almost a month now since I signed the mediation agreement and told H I wouldn't stand in the way of his happiness, and if a D is what would make him happy, I won't stand in his way. As far as I can tell, he has not turned it in (no withdrawal for the retainer), nor has he mentioned anything more about D. He was also supposed to put our vacation home up for sale. Said he had the paperwork for that for me to sign 10 days ago, but I haven't seen that yet either. (He was at the house here today, while I was out, but did not drop it off.)

I have not seen him in about 10 days now, so I have not mentioned the counselor someone had recommended.

I get occasional e-mails from him, very formal and businesslike, and the last two informed me (1) he purchased lawn/fall cleanup supplies for the yard, and (2) his best friend's father's health is failing. That's it. There are no 'feeling' words attached to this 2nd one, only facts. I don't quite know what to do with it, how to respond. Have to mull that one over.

Anyway, I guess I am still standing, albeit somewhat reluctantly some days. But I will say this: absolutely NOTHING he does or says surprises me anymore. And, some days I feel like an EXPERT on detaching, and other days, not so much. Today's a pretty 'expert' day. So that's good. I have more of those now than the bad ones. A friend told me, after hearing me talk about this sitch, that she thinks he's going to reconsider and come home someday, but that she was afraid that, by then, I won't want him back anymore. To borrow a line from our friend Mighty, 'things that make you go hmmmmmm....'

Got a full weekend planned. Gearing up for some college football, dinner out with friends, and a surprise party for my 70-year-old aunt! Looking forward to it. Lovely start to the fall we're having - is it 'Indian Summer' already??? Cider and donuts are calling me.

[mleigh4]

Ah detaching. My biggest struggle. I have my good and bad days too. Especially when they drag things out. Would it be easier if it was just cut and dry? I think so.

Sounds like a fun weekend, hang in there.

[LiveNow]

Mleigh - I do think it would be easier if it were over and done with quickly. And I still find detaching to be a daily struggle. But, something clicked in March/April (about 8 mos. post BD) where I just felt different suddenly. He had hurt me maybe one too many times and it was like I removed him from the pedestal I'd had him on for 20 years and placed him, finally, on a 'level playing field' with me. That's when my thinking shifted a little, and I was no longer so concerned what exactly I said or did when dealing with him. Whatever happened, I knew I'd still be ok. Now, I just try to be polite, no R or D talk, try to listen, and take one day at a time. I'm a little scared because I'm starting to question whether I'd be able to take him back if he reconsidered, apologized, sought help, etc. Honestly, I'm just not sure anymore. This is new, like in the last few weeks...Every sitch is different, but you'll know at some point what's right for you...

[LiveNow]

Well, let's see. My last post was 9/24. And just about nothing has changed - STILL. My counselor keeps urging me to sit down and have an R talk with H. So strange, though. He does weird things. His best friend's father passed away last week, and I sent my usual card/hand-written note to him and his wife, and made my usual donation to a related charity. H apparently had seen my note and made a big point of thanking me for 'what I did', and mentioned that they were so 'thankful' for my kind words. IDK, I just think that's so odd. That's what I've always done - for anyone. When he is here at the house (occasionally, taking care of the lawn), he doesn't look at me when he talks, seems nervous or something. Still no more talk of mediation, and apparently our vacation home is STILL not on the market - at least 6 weeks ago we discussed putting it up for sale.

I'm just at a complete loss at what to do next. I've GAL'd my butt off this year, and I continue to do that. It just seems like he is permanently in la-la land. Still can't deal with the reality of his life (still not seeing a counselor, even though he insists he wants to, needs to). Days and days and days go by with no word. I still don't know where his apartment is; I refuse to ask and he doesn't say.

So here is the question for you all: His biggest complaint about our R was that we weren't connected on a very deep level. Looking back, there is some truth to that, although I just don't think I realized it - but neither did he until we had been married for 20 years (!). Regardless, keeping that in mind, does anyone have any suggestions for me???

Really, I am at a loss. Plain and simple. I haven't cried in over a month - don't feel like I need to anymore. SO tired of this game. He comes by, talks about anything and everything EXCEPT the HERD of elephants in the room, and I just can't stand it anymore! It's SO incredibly absurd. I am his wife - and I have NO IDEA how he feels about me at this point. NONE. That is just so insane.

I have been 'lurking' mostly lately because there just has been nothing to say. But, I keep reading because there are so many 'gems' in what all of you are writing. So much strength you all show. I feel pretty strong, worthy, all that stuff. I feel pretty good about all the work I've done on myself this past year. I know it was necessary and I am grateful for this opportunity. So, ok. That's great. Now what? I think I have an unwritten deadline, and that's spring 2015. I think I can wait until then, but if we are not either on the path to reconciliation (at least TALKING constructively), or on the path to divorce by then, it will be time to throw in the towel. I see no reason to waste any more time. I'm 51, and will be 52 in March. I think almost 2 years of waiting around for H will be enough. My friend keeps telling me she thinks he will come back around someday, but it may take a divorce to make that happen.

Ladies' weekend away 'up north' this coming weekend. Taking Thursday and Friday off. Thursday morning I will make a detour and drive by the vacation home - just to see what exactly is happening there. H says he's been 'working' up there (presumably to get it ready to sell). Last time I was there was mid-August. It looked so neglected and abandoned that it made me cry (you see, if he was not still seeing OW, he would have been taking care of the place, so it plainly showed me he is still 'somewhere else' on weekends, and not at our place). Geez, I guess I feel neglected and abandoned too.

Anyway, I really need this weekend - these are 5 close friends from high school. Always a great time. Looking forward to it! Thinking good thoughts for all of you in DB land this week. Keep up the GREAT work. Together, we are gathering strength to move forward, whatever that means for each of you. So glad we all can share here. Don't know where I'd be without it. Peace out...

[LiveNow]

Oh, and GO LIONS!

[Shining]

Hi, LiveNow,

I'm sorry not much has changed in your sitch. I can't imagine being together for 20 years, and suddenly not knowing where H even lives. Do you see him at all? Or is it just email/business stuff?

I'm glad to read you are getting out, GAL, and feeling good about your self-worth. Those are going to be bigger on my own to-do list going forward.

I wanted to know more about the spring 2015 throw-in-the-towel deadline. I'm asking because I don't know, not because I have an opinion. I may find myself in the same limbo soon, so I'm gathering info as much as I can.

So, my curiosity....

Why have the deadline?
Is it something you decided on your own at one time, like an absolute limit?
What, if anything, would have to change for your deadline to be flexible?
What if your feelings change sooner, would you still hold out because you committed to spring?

Thank you for sharing this .

[Georgiabelle]

Live Now,

I'm sorry you feel things are stagnant. That is a very difficult place to be. Shining brings up some good questions for you to ponder. Only you can decide what feels right for you and I do understand that can be challenging. Hang in there!

I like the Lions too! Calvin Johnson and Matt Stafford are 2 of my faves (and they are good guys!!!)

[Mighty]

Live,

I like that you set a timeframe. Once that comes, you can do whatever you want. Reassess everything. But I think it is good, because it will help put a focus on you in the meantime. Glad you are GAL. Whatever happens between now and then, you don't have to make any decisions.

I think it's a good idea, Live. Keep your head up, and keep on doing you!

[Lifes Twists]

Live,

I think like many of us that deep down you are still holding on to him too tightly. You are still holding your breath waiting for that first sign that things have turned the corner and he is coming back to you. What are you going to do if he never comes back? suffocate? Stop holding your breath. Stop looking for that first sign of change from him. Until you do that he will sense that you are still out there waiting for him.

[mirage]

Live now,
I'll explain my take on MLC lala land. I had an MLC and was in lala for a couple of years.

There is no time for any thought of anything but the pain inside your head. Picture the worst physical pain you ever had in your life and transfer that into your mind. It hurts! It hurts to the point you are just trying to get through another day alive. You think to yourself this can't go on. Day after monotonous day. Like a walking zombie! There is no energy to deal with much outside of your own mind.

I can't believe I wasn't fired during that couple years. I did very little productive at work. I would think how f'd up I was but could not figure a way out.

One day out of the blue the answer came. The shell broke open. Why? I don't know but it did. Hearts blessings stages of MLC describe it well. I travelled all of them. Mine took 2 1/2 yrs start to finish. It would not have mattered one iota what anybody else would have said or done. It was my path to travel.

With that being said. You need to be good to yourself and travel your path. There are no garauntees he comes out of lala land. You can be in a good place should that happen.

I feel for you, and understand and hope you continue to look out for yourself.

Mirage

[LiveNow]

Thanks everybody! Shining, I don't really see him much at all, really only when/if he comes over to cut the lawn or pick up his mail, which, now that the growing season is ending, will be once every few weeks - maybe. I haven't seen him on a weekend since almost exactly 1 year ago. Only weekdays. Hm - where could he have been spending his weekends? DUH. Anyway, I think I set the deadline mainly for practical reasons. Spring is a good time to start looking for a house, and by then our vacation home should be sold so I'll have some money to do that. I do not want to move before March. I've moved in the middle of the winter before - it is SO not fun! I also set the deadline because I just have a gut feeling that that is all I'm going to be able to take. It's just all ENOUGH already. If I were younger, I might be willing to wait longer, but I really loved being married, so why waste any more time with someone who doesn't want to be with me?

Now, if, by some miracle, we are having R talks and piecing, I would reconsider. I do love him, but have seen NO movement to try and salvage our marriage in the past 15 months. None. And he walks such a fine, fine line, taking such great care (it seems) to convey things in such a way that I could so easily take them one way or the other - like, he's reconsidering, no, wait, that could also mean he really does want out. I really don't know how he does it. He is so incredibly vague and non-committal. I don't think I could do that if I tried! And yeah, if my feelings do change sooner, and I want out, then I will still wait til spring so I have the best chance of finding a decent place to live.

GB, Calvin and Matt are BIG stars around here! But heck, it takes more than those 2 guys to pull off a win! Still, fans are die-hards around here...at least we can actually win some games now!

Mighty, thanks for the encouragement. This seems like a piece of cake compared to everything you are struggling with! I don't know how you do it, and keep a level head. But keep it up. It's workin' for you!

LT, you might be right. I do feel that I have certainly let go alot in the past couple of months, but yes, I probably am still waiting for that sign. Just like I said above, I've seen NONE - and I keep looking. But I'm running out of patience, and that's where I think I came up with the deadline. I just know I can't be one of the LBSs who waits for 2, 3, 4 years. That just isn't who I am. I have a life to live, and I still feel like it's on hold in so many ways because of this. I have done so much good stuff for myself this year, so it doesn't really hold me back, but those plans we all had for the future? Still holding onto those, still haven't been able to really let those go. I wanted to grow old together, and take care of each other. I still want to do that. I thought that by signing that mediation agreement and saying I didn't want to stand in the way of his happiness - and I did mean that and 'lovingly let go' - it might slap him in the face a little with reality as well. Indeed, he came running and said he wanted to talk, and that's when he explained he was reading the book I gave him and took more blame for all the mess we're in. And then in the next breath says he'll set up a time for an appraisal for this house (so he can buy me out). MIXED signals -- all the time! So frustrating.

And thanks so much, Mirage, for sharing your personal experience. As you explain it, I can certainly imagine that incredible pain inside his head -- I believe I have had something very similar in my own head for the past year, as a result of his. I didn't even know I could hurt this much. Lately, the last few months, it's quite a bit less. I know, without a doubt, I'll be fine with or without him. But life just isn't all that fun without him! It's so hard to find people who really like to do the things I like to do. I'm a very active 51-year-old, and many of my friends would rather watch a movie than do anything physical. I love them, but I need a few new ones who will do certain things that my H was always game for. Working on that.

Again, thanks for all your replies. You make me think. And thanks for the reminder that he's in as much, if not more, pain than I am right now. Sorry this is so long, but I guess it was all due to come out soon, since I hadn't posted in so long! Gotta pack for the long weekend - one more day of work and I'm outta here!

[LiveNow]

It was a warm October night. The last of the summer crickets were singing their final notes before the long winter silence. In the orange of the Halloween porch lanterns she sits, laptop aglow, a glass of wine nearby, thoughts coming and going, contemplating how different her life is now - 1 year and 4 months post BD...

Hi DB'ers. I continue to be inspired by all of you. I read alot, haven't posted much. H shows up every week or 10 days, or so, to blow the leaves off the lawn, or cut it, or pick up his mail. Still don't know where his apartment is, but know the vicinity. That's good enough for now. He comes by last week, I make him stay and talk. He talks, cries some, talks some more. This man is in a deep depression and can't seem to get himself out. His biggest issue is that we never had children. This is THE issue that I, myself, been trying to accept for several years now. I feel I'm almost there, and have found a few ways to fill that empty space. He is stuck almost right where he was at BD, and still not in counseling. I finally asked him if he wanted the name of someone recommended to me, and he agreed. Of course, this is not the first time he has said he needs counseling - and then doesn't follow up. I know that HE knows he needs to go. I keep praying that he does - for his own sake. I can't stand to see him SO incredibly sad, feeling like he has no life purpose.

I am sad too, and have many regrets. But, as we all learn here, we fill up our lives with activities that make us happy. I think I've done a pretty good job of that in this past year. And every time I see H, I am reminded of how much work I've done, and that it has paid off.

Something new: I start a mentoring training program tomorrow, and will get matched with a child by the end of the year. I'm really looking forward to it. A result of more soul searching...

Anyway, I am so grateful for what I DO have, and H is SO focused on what he does NOT have in life. I refuse to join him in that place, however difficult life is sometimes. All I can do for him is pray. And I vow to do that every day for him, starting today. (Wow...could I really, finally be on the road to forgiveness??)

The pumpkin lantern cast its eerie shadow...an owl hoots in the trees...the crickets just keep singing while they still can...

(Ok, maybe all this contemplation is the afterglow of my Monday evening meditation class, and this weekend's meditation retreat??? Ha.)

[Wet]

LiveNow, such a beautiful melody of writing! Wonderfully descriptive, and it creates such a strong ... whom am I kidding? I can't write like you. So I guess I will simply say "well done".

[LiveNow]

Thanks Wet. I write for a living, but not that kind of writing! Maybe I just needed a creative outlet. Heh heh.

Anyway, back on the freakin' rollercoaster today, big time. So when H was here last Thursday (as described), he mentioned an e-mail he had sent me, but that I had not seen. Couldn't find it in my in-box. I decided to look around in my spam folder - and lo and behold, there it was, dated last Wednesday, the day before we talked. It described, in detail, what he wanted out of our 'asset division'. He used words he'd never use, like 'flatware' (?!). Ohhhkaaay. Seems to me he had some type of template he followed. Anyway, I was shocked to read it all, since he was here the very next day and didn't mention ANY of those details - and still hasn't. In the meantime, found out him and OW still going strong.

So, at this point, he clearly thinks (from the e-mail) that we can divide things up without any sticking points. There are 2 huge red flags in the e-mail that he MUST be aware of: he says he'll keep his pension, and there is no mention of spousal support. This will certainly not fly with me - we have been married for 21 years and I am entitled to both.

Now, I know most of you are not attorneys, but if anyone can chime in here, I'd be most grateful. I have not yet responded to the e-mail, and he is still under the impression that I never got it. After seeing it, I have climbed to the top of the fence, and I am starting to tip toward D. SO tired of all of it. So the question is...should I just wait and see what happens next? It's been almost a week since he sent it. I assume he'll send it again (as he said he would), and then probably tell me to look for it. Should I print it out and take it to my attorney and prepare a response, before going to a mediator?? Mind you, he has not set up any appointment nor retained the mediator yet.

That e-mail is pretty detailed, and obviously he has thought things through. I have a plan in my head (in case it came to this), just have not shared any of it with him. Well, so much for the peace and quiet from last night!!! All he!! just broke loose. I keep trying to tell myself, believe none of what he says and only half of what he does...I just keep praying. Today I prayed for a clear sign of what to do next. And not 2 hours later I found the e-mail.

Oh, and something arrived in the mail yesterday: a brochure for a local ski resort that (I know) H and OW went to last winter. And guess what? It was addressed to HER. WTF?! This just makes it easier for me to move toward D. Fasten your seat belts - it's going to be a bumpy ride.

As always, thanks for everyone's support here. Wish we could meet in person. How do you guys set that up? It would help so much to talk to someone 'live', who is going through this crap...

[Wet]

Hi LiveNow,

Yes, take it to your attorney who will be the one to best guide you on how to get an equitable distribution of the marital property.

Now I know nothing about Michigan law, but I can speak generally. All part of compensation including pensions are considered "marital" property. This means it should be divided equitably between the two of you.

21 years of marriage is clearly a point where spousal maintenance could be paid. But on this especially, you need to speak to your attorney. Good luck.

[Lifes Twists]

Hi Live,

I agree with Wet that you need an attorney or mediator to help u split things up. The laws var from state to state. Spousal support is no longer a given no matter how long you were married. A lot of states are now using it for a limited time to help a spouse to get back on their feet and get training or schooling to get back into the work force. Since you never had any children and probably worked your whole married life then you may not get any spousal support. Pension funds typically are split 50 50, half of his to you and half of yours to him. This may be adjusted depending on who earns more from what I understand.

[Nitty]

If your H asks you if what he proposes is okay with you, say, "That's a lot to think about. I don't feel comfortable deciding right now."

What if he pressures you for an answer?

The financial planner people rehearsed this response with me until I knew it by heart:

"I want what I'm entitled to under the law." That's all you ever have to say. You say it calmly and forthrightly. It's not a challenge, it's a fact.

You need an attorney, or a certified divorce financial planner to look at your finances and determine the best way to split things up. Interview a couple of them. I didn't have to deal with custody issues so I focused on finding a good financial planner, and asked them for recommendations for attnys who worked in a collaborative or mediation environment.

(I cried through every interview. I did not want to D. But my H seemed gung ho to D me and I refused to let everything we worked so hard for three decades to be eaten up by taxes, combative lawyers or H's tantrums.)

You've got to look at the long term: say you spend X amount of dollars on an attny or a financial planner, where X = several mortgage payments. That's terrifying, but the financial planner will probably save you that much in child support/alimony within one or two years. In my case, they would've saved me more than that much every year until my support ran out. So it's worth it.

Until you have someone to review your stuff, don't agree to anything.

They told me: it's better for my H to offer first. I was to bring his offer back to them for review and they would help me decide. His offer may or may not have been equitable; if they decided it WAS it equitable, then I could accept it and would've avoided a lot of hassle and cost. If not, I would've brought it back to the table.

They also told me that if H was going to throw too many tantrums, that it would be more cost-effective in the long run to go from mediation to collaborative D. I hired the financial planners to keep our costs as low as possible, and after the lecture on how divorce is the most expensive financial transaction of a couple's lives, that's what they did: strategize so it would be less expensive all around.

Even in mediation you shouldn't agree until a consulting professional (attorney or divorce financial planner) reviews the proposal. Say you all come up with a proposal in mediation. It's perfectly normal to say, "All right, I'm going to take this to an attny for review and will get back to you."

[LiveNow]

Thx Wet, LT, and Nitty. Helpful advice, for sure. I know my mantra: don't sign ANYTHING until attorney reviews it.

For the moment, since he still doesn't know that I have now seen this e-mail from him, I'm just going to wait and see what he does next. With a history of major procrastination, it could take another few days before he does anything. He said he would re-send it, when I told him I had not seen it -- that was a week ago. I'm curious to see if he (1) does that, and (2) makes some changes to it!

Had dinner with 3 fellow Divorce-Care graduates. Always good to touch base every couple of weeks. I am the only one now who is not divorced. Weird - they are moving on with their lives, and all doing well. I keep looking to them to keep me going. They have all been through so much. They inspire me -- as do all of you, too!

[LiveNow]

Oh, and I'm getting my (first, and probably only) tattoo this Sunday! It will say: "Let it be" - a reminder for me to just accept what is, and...Live Now! Excited!

[LiveNow]

Looking for some feedback today...

It's been almost 3 weeks since H sent the e-mail detailing his ideas on how we would divide up our 'assets.' He finally sent it again today, and this time it did not end up in the Junk folder. There were a few changes, but most of it is the same. Basically everything is 50-50, but of course he makes no mention of spousal support and states that he would keep his pension (of which I'm entitled to half, after 21 years of marriage). Months ago, he suggested we hire a mediator to work this out. He never did that. This e-mail, however, indicates to me that we will need one.

I will likely take it to my attorney (or more likely, financial advisor) to get some preliminary advice, before even heading into any mediation. Right now, he appears to think (mind-reading, yes) that I'll pretty much roll over and play dead, and let him keep all of 'his' big accounts.

So, to respond to the e-mail, how about something like this:

H, there is alot to consider, and it will take some time to sort through it all. When you get a chance, please drop off our tax records for the last 3 years so we (I?) can get started. (He took them from our files a while ago without telling me.)

Any thoughts? I don't want to start sending flaming arrows back and forth and let things get nasty...

[job]

Your response is very good and it's neutral enough not to send flaming arrows at his back.

I agree, your lawyer needs to review this and you are entitled to half his retirement and I would go for it. You may want to discuss w/your lawyer how to handle this. Some want their share at the time of the divorce, which means your h would need to take out a loan to pay you off. Others have stipulated in the divorce decree that you are to be paid either in lump sum or monthly upon his retirement.

As for the spousal support, again, don't let your h off...it's more than fair to receive what you are entitled to after 21 years of marriage.

Be prepared for him to get ugly once he discovers that your lawyer has reviewed the document and changes have been made. Right now, he thinks he's got you in his hip pocket. Won't he be the surprised little fool.

[Lifes Twists]

Hi LN,

I notice your signature list 21 years married with no kids. Did you stay at home for those 21years and take care of the house? Did you work outside of the home? Do you have your own retirement plan? The reason I am asking is if you stayed home the whole time and took care of the house then yes you should get spousal support and half his retirement. If not, then you really need a lawyer or mediator to tell you what you can expect. Laws in most states have changed and spouses are no longer guaranteed spousal support. What the court may do is try and equalize things. If you already have a career then spousal support may be limited and also limited to length of time you get it.

[job]

I agree w/Life Twists on the spousal support. If you've worked outside the home the entire 21 years, you may not be able to get spousal support, depending upon the state you live in.

As for the retirement, if you worked outside the home and have a retirement plan, you will need to figure out if it's worth going after your share (if he made more than you did). He may very well opt to tag on to your retirement if it's more than his or he could very well do what my xh did. For example, in my case, I made more money, but my xh opted to keep his retirement and I would keep mind. Now, when it comes to social security benefits, when I get to that ripe old age of 65, I will apply for whatever portion that I am eligible to receive as an xw for the amount of time that I was married and he worked in the private sector and paid in to social security during the marriage. How can I do this? I will be a retired Federal employee and my pension will come from what I paid into Civil Service and it's considered separate from social security.

Again, these are questions/issues that you need to discuss w/your lawyer. Jot down your questions and be prepared to ask them in order to make a good decision.

BTW, my earlier comments were based on the fact that if you didn't work. If you worked during that time, it may change a lot of what you are thinking of requesting.

[LiveNow]

Thanks LT and Job. I worked the entire time we were married and still work now full-time. Today, he makes almost twice what I make, and this has been the case for probably 10 years now. My attorney has indicated I would be eligible for spousal support, for at least 5 years. May or may not be worth fighting for, considering attorney fees. Thanks for the feedback - looks like it's time to get busy cleaning up this mess. Am sad, but I know I have done everything I could to save my marriage. I only hope to continue conducting myself with grace and strength. Difficult for me to keep being nice, now that it has come to this.

[Lifes Twists]

Given the circumstances of his PA and leaving you, I would not hesitate to go for the spousal support. You could use it as leverage in mediation. Maybe not go for the full equal split but something slightly less. It will be pointed out that it will cost money if it goes to ligation and you most likely will get it if your lawyer indicates 5 years. I would maybe suggest a 55 - 45 % split of combined income and drop back to 60 - 40 if he is making twice as much as you. If he is smart he will take it to not loose all the money to lawyers while still loosing in the end.

[LiveNow]

Thanks LT. Good to know. So new to all of this! Yes, I had a year and 5 months to prepare, but hoped I didn't have to. I keep looking at my new reminder, on my arm, where I can see it: "Let it be"...

[fthnluv]

LiveNow. Catching up on your sitch. You are right, we are in similar positions and timelines. I hate dealing with the financial stuff because it feels like another step towards a D that I don't want. But, as I have come to realize and I am beginning to accept, this is the path that is now in front of us and we must walk it so let's do it in the way that is best for us in the end.

Love your tattoo. I've never wanted one until recently, but U haven't decided what. I love your idea and I might just steal it if you let me...

[LiveNow]

Oh, heck, I got my tattoo idea online. Found a photo of it, so I'm not the first one to get it, and certainly not the last. It's short and sweet - and it's a great reminder. Go for it!

[LiveNow]

Well, the other shoe has FINALLY dropped. H filed for D last Thursday, the 13th. Here's how I found out: I got a letter in the mail today from some local attorney (not mine and not his), who keeps an eye on court records, and sends these letters out to involved parties to try and get new business. I am going to write this attorney a letter detailing how despicable that practice is, and that these are REAL PEOPLE involved, some with broken hearts -- not just freakin' dollar signs. OMG - I was livid, not just with H for filing but (1) because he did not tell me and (2) I found out from some sleazy divorce attorney. Sick. The whole thing. And it is FAR too easy to get a D, at least in my state. I had already made an appointment with a certified divorce financial planner - next Tuesday. Good thing. I'll need her.

So here I am, almost 1.5 years after BD. Strangely, I am relieved. I have to say, I absolutely felt it was coming to a head, and very soon. Found out recently OW has filed (a couple of months ago it appears). And the way I've been feeling...like I just couldn't DO this anymore. Hanging by a thread. I'm really not even sure if I still really do love him anymore. You know why? Cause I don't know who he is anymore. At all. And he doesn't know who I am anymore. I am watching my recently divorced friends move on and start to date. Have felt like I want to move beyond all this too and start MY life.

Wait til I tell him how I found this out. Think he'll even feel bad? Probably not. Let's see how long it takes to get 'served.'

I did get a clean bill of health recently, thank God (just several routine annual checkups), so I'm ready to take this all on now. BRING IT, H. Let's DO this.

God grant me the serenity...etc., etc....

[Wet]

I'm sorry LiveNow, especially about the way that you found out. It looks like you have a great attitude for dealing with this last stretch. The way that you wrote "Bring it", makes me a little scared. :-)

[LiveNow]

Thx Wet. I know, it's not very 'DB' of me, but perhaps I truly have finally had enough. The next few weeks will reveal much...

[fthnluv]

I'm so sorry to hear that your H didn't tell you about filing. Mine didn't either, even when given the opportunity to do so days afterwards. So cowardly.

How will this affect your mediation agreement? Will it just formalize it and dissolve the M? Sorry, I have no idea how that sort of thing works.

[job]

I'm inclined to advise you not to tell your h you know about the filing. I think I would just wait a bit and see if he has the nerve to tell you. I would go ahead and meet w/the lawyer/financial individual next week and once that's done and you have your information as to what to expect, etc., then I would sit back until after Thanksgiving before making any decisions as to whether or not to tell him.

As for the divorce chasing lawyer...that's the first I've heard of this behavior and it's terrible to do things like this because of the emotional states of the people involved.

I got my paperwork in the mail a week before Christmas. My xh's lawyer sent me the documents and the envelope had about 20 one cent stamps pasted on the front of the envelope. She didn't even send the info or a copy to my lawyer. I gave him the info and he called her on it. But, bottom line, I knew he would be that he would do something like that around the holidays. That was just the way he was after entering mlc. I do think he was hoping I'd get it a day or so before Christmas, but it didn't work out. I kept the info to myself and sure enough he emailed me to ask me some silly question and I never told him about it. He found out about it when his lawyer got chewed out about the way she handled the situation.

These crisis people tend to do their nasty deeds around holiday and special events such as birthdays or anniversaries because they are miserable and they want us to be as well. In fact, it's their way of making a memory for us that we will never forget I would hate to be in their shoes and live their miserable lives.

Please do not allow the way that this filing was handled to deter you from what you need to do. Yes, it was sleazy, but in a way, maybe it was a good thing because you got a heads up from an unknown source.

I'm so sorry that you had to find out this way.

[LiveNow]

Thanks fthnluv. The mediation agreement was just spelling out that we intended to use that mediator, we both intend to cooperate, etc. No specifics in it, just a 'getting started' agreement. I don't think he has done anything with that yet at all.

And thanks, Job, I planned not to say a word. I'm waiting to see how long it takes for him to bring it up. He was just here, prepping the snow blower, and already left...not a word about it, and not much conversation at all between us. Typical. I'm not going to say anything yet, at least not until after I've met with financial person and attorney.

It's really weird how I keep finding out in strange ways what he is doing, and know things before he even knows that I know them! I do believe there is some perhaps divine intervention going on here, like I'm getting intel, warnings to prepare me. Has happened quite a few times in my sitch. So odd...

I sent that letter right back to that divorce-chasing attorney with my comments on it. I hope HE actually sees it, and not just whoever is opening the mail at the office.

I am doing well today. I think this - anything - is better than the endless limbo. I have a life to live, after all. Was just reading about Diane Sawyer's husband who just passed away. He met Diane when he was 54. He said, "Life began at 54." Yeah, that's somethin'. :-)

[2BHappy]

Keep positive stay strong.
Make some GALs for the Holiday's

[fthnluv]

Thanks fthnluv. The mediation agreement was just spelling out that we intended to use that mediator, we both intend to cooperate, etc. No specifics in it, just a 'getting started' agreement. I don't think he has done anything with that yet at all.

Ah, got it. I hope it goes smoothly for you. I've done next to nothing in my D that H filed and it's already cost me $1300! So darn expensive for something I don't even want!

Was just reading about Diane Sawyer's husband who just passed away. He met Diane when he was 54. He said, "Life began at 54." Yeah, that's somethin'. :-)

I read this comment you wrote earlier before I had a chance to sit down and respond and it's gone through my head a bunch of times this afternoon. So cool. Apparently there is life after 40 (or 50, 60, 70...) yay for us!

Oh, and I totally believe you are finding things out ahead of time for a reason. Maybe to better prepare you, maybe to make you have a little more control of this out of control situation with our MLC H's but either way I think God is helping you out there in some way. Glad you are doing better today. I agree, the limbo is no good.

[LiveNow]

Yes, God is definitely pulling some strings up there, without a doubt, to slowly reveal things to me, warning me beforehand that they're coming! I've discovered he also has a sense of humor!

H e-mails yesterday, 1 week after he filed (and still thought i didn't know), and asks where should his attorney 'send the summons', to my attorney or to the house? Before he asks that, he goes into a lengthy thing about how to use the snowblower (uh, I used it LAST year, AND I have the documentation!). And, he is going to our vacation home to close it up for the winter this weekend - do I want him to bring anything home? And then 'oh, BTW, where to send the freakin' 'summons'? Says he 'wanted to talk in person' (I was AT home that very afternoon, while he was here prepping the snowblower) but 'wasn't sure if I wanted to.' OMG -- I can't take the mr. nice guy ANY MORE. I think this is because it would be SO much easier to walk away from him if he were being mean. I answered the email with "Thanks. Just have it sent to the house."

Took the day off today and got all my paperwork and copies together for the financial person on Tuesday. Feeling better about it all. MY ducks are in a row -- his are still flappin and floppin all over the place with no sense of order. And the more I looked at the numbers today, the more I think he isn't going to be able to afford to buy me out of this house! That would mean we would have to sell it, but really, we'd make more money probably by doing that. People would start a bidding war over it. It's only 2 years old, only 1850 sq. ft., on a fantastic city lot, and it's so dang cool -- because WE designed it. There would be a line at the door. So, hey, I am open to that...gimme the cash...I'll find my own dang house! (but, alas, it won't be as nice as this one)

[LiveNow]

And thanks for the good wishes 2BHappy. I'm GAL'ing my butt off. Another 'meetup' tomorrow afternoon, lunch with friend on Sunday. Dinner tonight with another good friend. Fillin' up the calendar. I know, with Thanksgiving coming and all, I may have had a really crappy 1.5 years, but I still have a LOT to be thankful for. Including all y'all! :-)

[123Gwen]

LiveNow- You are my hero! I am just zigging and zagging. One day I am GALing and the next I am scared to leave the house. Your upbeat attitude is showing me with time and patience I can get to a place where the GAL is strong and the possibility of a life without H is not so terrifying.

Hope your December is full of fun.

[LiveNow]

Sorry -- this is LONG.

Ok, wow, been a LONG time since I posted (almost 2 months!). A LOT has happened. The good: I am GAL'ing a lot -- so much so that I'm starting to think I need to cut back! And, here is the best part: I'm actually starting to ENJOY it. By nature, I am quite an introvert. Got VERY out of practice in meeting new people, trying new things. But I think I have it down pat now. Joined 3 Meetups - what a great way to get out and meet people with your same interests - signed up for a communication class, starting mentoring (my mentee is a wonderful 15-year-old girl), going to yoga, running, and I fired my counselor - looking for a new one. And all this happened in the last couple of months! Yay, me. Whew. Boy, was I glad to see 2014 go. Never want to have another year like that one, nor 2013.

18 months past BD, and I am finally, finally starting to feel like myself again. This 'self' is the self I remember from before I met H, over 23 years ago. A strong, independent, resourceful person, able to handle crap on her own, whatever it is.

That being said, here is the bad: H filed in mid-November, and we are now just past the 60-day waiting period in my state (if there are no kids), so the D can be finalized anytime. We had one mediation meeting, yesterday afternoon, and H seems h3ll-bent on getting this completed by Jan. 26th, court date for settlement conference, about 10 days away. (BTW, resourceful friend found court records of OW filing this past September, with final court dates in March and April of this year.)

A very interesting mediation meeting. He mentioned mediation in August 2013 - yes 2013 - and I've been dreading actually having a conversation about how to divide our assets ever since. Well, I was very prepared for this meeting, mentally/emotionally and with all necessary figures and papers in hand (thanks, Nitty - I struck a couple of 'power poses' too, beforehand!), and he was just about as UNprepared as he could possibly be -- this after 18 months of saying he wanted a D. W-T-F. I have just one word for this: FOG. He is still deep in it, and convinced that D is the key to his happiness. After 18 months, he hadn't even sat down and done ANY of the math required to figure out whether he could actually afford to do what he wanted (buy me out of the house, NOT pay any spousal support or split his pension, keep a piece of vacant property). It became very clear in the mediation that we likely have to sell everything in order to split everything 50-50.

The ugly: I came to that meeting with a comprehensive financial report with everything in it, and a pad of paper, and a pen, and he came with NOTHING. He had a huge long list of things he needed to do as a result of the meeting, according to the mediator, and he didn't write down a single thing. This is a smart man, who (normally) has alot of common sense too. I was flabbergasted. But, maybe I should not have been. MLC still in full force without a doubt. And I give him several chances to bring up his pension, but he didn't, so I had to. But, he wasn't even upset about it. I think he is carrying around a tremendous amount of guilt, and is in a frame of mind where he is willing to give me whatever I'm asking just to end this. Ok then -- I'll TAKE IT.

Anyway, now that the elephant in the room has been acknowledged, I think we can figure everything out the rest of the way without the mediator. But I think the mediator HAD to be the one to explain it to H that he can't possibly afford everything he wants out of this. He would never have listened to ME say it. Ah - validation. It was worth the $400 for the 2 lousy hours of mediation. Whatevs.

So, moral of the story is: I HAD to let it happen, finally. I had no other choice. I do believe he will see someday that it wasn't me 'making him unhappy' -- only himself. He created his own life, he made this mess for himself. When he left the meeting yesterday, he looked terrible - sad and utterly 'defeated.' I felt SORRY for him. I did not feel good about how it went because it does not make me feel good taking money from him - because I can take care of mySELF, dangit - but I did what I had to do. I am asking only for that which I am entitled to by law. That's it. I could take much more if I wanted to! But I'm not. I was proud of myself for getting through it without falling apart, though.

More good: he IS finally seeing a counselor, weekly. Thank God. I have the paperwork to prove it. He's a Christian counselor and H actually said he likes him - imagine that. I truly hope this person helps him. I do. It's too late for us, but not for him alone. Thing is, H filed for D the DAY BEFORE he began seeing the counselor. I believe he thought the counselor was going to try and convince him to stay in the marriage. Again, whatevs.

I will do what I have to do, and only that. I'm making him do all the rest of the work for the D. I am cooperating, but that's it. It's all I can do. It's enough. I've had enough, and it's time for ME to move on now. He 'moved on' over a year ago. Not saying that I would NEVER go back (he'd literally have to grovel and beg, etc., etc. - and even then I have no idea whether I'd be able to take him back, maybe not). Never say never. But for now, I'm planning my own future. That's the way it has to be. I don't see hiding out and giving up on my life as an option. My 'survival instinct' kicked in the minute the bomb dropped. The hard work has finally begun to pay off.

Here's hoping all of you struggling to find your footing - and scared to just 'let it happen' - will find the courage to let go, and leave them to their journey. A VERY hard thing to do - and some days I backtrack - but we must do it.

Been following many of you, and learning much from you all, especially Mighty, Matt, Cali, Gwen, LT, Goat Gal, and others. Will make some time in between GAL'ing to post soon! By the way, where the heck IS our Goat Gal these days anyway???

[LiveNow]

Huh. Another 2 months passed?? Well, a lot has happened. We did only 1 mediation session, and I just took all the stuff the mediator had written up and finished typing it up myself. Basically ended up splitting up everything 50/50, but I got a chunk of $ in lieu of spousal support. It's not a great deal, considering everything XH put me through, and all the $ he has spent over the past year and a half on OW and her kids. But it's over. I want to move on. I want to start my own life now, and not worry about him all the time anymore.

D was final last week. SO much to do now. Change my name, new bank account, change e-mail address, etc. I'll get through it. In a few months I won't be living in 'our' house anymore -- neither of us will, and it makes me glad he could not afford to buy me out of it so OW could come over and enjoy all the fruits of my labor (we designed it).

So much to process. But, the day after BD, almost 2 years ago now, I began to prepare for this time. I attended 2 DivorceCare sessions, with 2 different groups, many of whom I'm still in touch with now. I GAL'd my butt off, reestablished contact with many friends and family, did a year and a half of weekly counseling sessions...so, here I am. I think I'm actually prepared to go on now without him. It makes me very sad to see him, because he looks bad, sad. But I just can't bring myself to be his 'friend.' I don't know how you all do it. It's just not possible for me. The hurt was just way too deep. He left so abruptly -- one day I had what I thought was a loving H, and the next day I didn't. It is so much better for me to not see him at all. We only communicate by e-mail now. And that's fine with me. Of course, I have my moments, and they are difficult to get through. But they pass. Patience.

So, I turn 52 this Saturday (and Happy Spring everyone!), and I'm taking a cue from someone I know who always throws himself a birthday party! I'm hosting a dinner party for 8 of my closest girlfriends, really to thank them for helping me through this mess. I'm making everything but my cake! Without them, and without this board, I would not be where I am today.

Oh, and I have a (coffee) date tomorrow afternoon! First one. Weird. I think I'll know right away whether I really want to date or not, yet. We'll see.

I continue to read and post occasionally here. So many inspiring stories, so many strong people. Would so love to meet many of you and swap stories. (I know, there are rumblings on Mighty's thread. I'm SO there. Let's DO it!) Hugs and prayers to all on this journey along with me tonight.

[job]

I'm glad that the divorce is finally over for you because now you can put your focus on you and your life. Divorce proceedings take up a lot of time, energy and money. You've got a list of things that you will need to do in the near future and I have no doubt that you won't get them done in the next couple of weeks. However, I'm very sorry that you aren't going to continue to live in the house that you designed. That's a shame, but glad "she" won't be there either.

If you decide to date, go out and have some fun. Nothing says you have to have serious relationship quickly. There are plenty of men out there and you want to enjoy the time you spend w/them. If you opt not to get serious about someone, that's okay too....because when the time is right, the right man will cross your path when you least expect it.

Enjoy your new found freedom. It's not how you wanted thing to go down...but sometimes what we don't want actually turns out to be a blessing in disguise.

[LiveNow]

Thanks, Job. The blessing in disguise thing...I tell myself that all the time. So many things in my life that I thought were bad things happening to me turned out to 'open new doors' to some of the best things that have happened! So, I'm counting on that this time around too. :-)

Well, first date in over 23 years this afternoon -- and it was BAD. Thankfully, it was just over an hour long. New rule: don't agree to meet until you've at least talked on the phone! But, just like job interviews. I learn something each time. And good things come to those who wait...

[123Gwen]

LiveNow- I read your posts often and just wanted to check on you. Glad you are thriving and selfishly I admit it helps me feel better to read about someone who has survived this mess and is stronger than they ever thought possible.

Thanks for the update and all your thoughts. I went to a divorce group in early days but have been thinking that at 9 months post BD I really need to try it again. It was so early before that maybe now it would be more helpful.

Again good to hear you are well.

[Mighty]

Live, you sound GREAT! Good for you. It is crazy to look back on a year and realize all that can happen, huh? Sorry your coffee date was bad. But, hey! You tried something new. Good for you! I think that's great!

[BrightFuture]

LiveNow, good to hear from you. He is a loser.

On the other side... This quote:

“Many people have come and left, and it has been always good because they emptied some space for better people. It is a strange experience, that those who have left me have always left places for a better quality of people. I have never been a loser” &#8213; Osho

I think I can live with this .

[LiveNow]

Gwen, I think that would be a good idea, to do the DivorceCare class again. It was suggested when I went to my first session because you will have a bit of a different perspective the second time around -- you'll be in a different place, so you'll pick up things you didn't the first time. (Of course, the facilitator always joked that if you did it 3 times, you were husband-shopping -- ha.) This is a tough road, and those classes were really helpful to me, not just for the lessons, but because of the new friends I made. The first group pulled me through those first several awful months after BD. I will never forget all the help and companionship we gave each other. 6 of us are very close still, and text each other regularly. We called ourselves The Overcomers. :-) Hang in there, Gwen.

Mighty - thanks for checking in here. Yesterday was my 52nd birthday, and I threw a dinner party for 8 close girlfriends who were so helpful to me in the last year and a half. If it hadn't been for them (and my DivorceCare groups!), I would not be where I am today. I feel like I've come a long way, and they were a big part of making me feel like myself again, and in getting me to look forward, and not backward anymore. So easy to say, so hard to do. Lean on your friends and family, Mighty, and even when you don't feel like doing something, make yourself go out. I was always glad I forced myself, and little by little, I started to have fun again. I remembered what I was like before marriage. Different for you, no doubt, since you were very young when you married -- I was 30. You may have more 'rebuilding' to do, and reinventing (or inventing?) yourself. So worth all the time and effort! And Spring is a great time to start!

Bright - great quote! Thanks for that. When one door closes...

So my dinner party was a blast. 8 girlfriends, and if I had had the room, I would have invited 5 more! I feel so fortunate to have them all in my life. I, the person who never wants to be the center of attention, made the first 'toast' I have ever made in my life, to my friends who helped me navigate this storm.

And do you think I had even an acknowledgement of my birthday from the man who I spent 20+ years with? Nope. Not even a text this year. (Last year, that's all I got: "happy birthday" -- not even any punctuation in it.) He made his point. We are D. He no longer "has to do" anything for me. Got it.

[BrightFuture]

Happy belated Birthday! I’m glad you had great time with your friends.

[123Gwen]

Yes Happy birthday (a little late) - sounds like a beautiful way to mark the start of a new year full of limitless possibilities.

[job]

Happy Belated Birthday! Sounds like you had a wonderful birthday celebration.

I'm not surprised that your xh didn't send you any type of greeting on your special day. If he had, that would mean he was thinking about you and he doesn't want you to think that he does.

Keep up the good work!

[LiveNow]

Thanks for all the b-day wishes, guys!

Job, yes, I think you're right on with your observation. I would have been shocked if he HAD acknowledged it!

Meanwhile, lining up another date for next week. (NO, not with that first guy!!!) This one is a fellow Walking Dead fan. ;-)

[LiveNow]

Wow, holidays still kill me, almost 2 years later. That was lousy. I am so grateful for my family and friends always including me and keeping me busy. Don't get me wrong, I had a nice day yesterday. But the pain is just not going away just yet. Most days I'm doing fine, having some fun even. But it just keeps catching up to me. I still (regularly, although longer in between now) feel like I need to let loose with both anger and tears, and I do. But there is still the nagging desire to BREAK something. And after all this time, I STILL have not yelled at him. I so want to get this out! Or really throw something that will make a very satisfying loud crash/splinter. I know DBing is all about STFU, but really? To never really let him know just how this has affected me? Never? I truly don't think he knows. It's this unsaid thing that has to be SAID. If it doesn't, it's going to keep growing, and cause me an ulcer, or worse, someday. Never mind the fact that he probably doesn't care. I feel like I let him off SO incredibly easy. He did whatever the h3ll he wanted for 2 years. And I am supposed to just walk away and be compassionate? Why am I having such a hard time with this? Boy, I hope tomorrow is a better day. I think I'm starting to stress because the move is coming soon. This house will sell in the next few weeks...

I did have another date last week. Fun one. Nice guy. I think we both felt there wasn't a spark, though, so that's ok. Nice to just go out and talk so someone new...

I hope everyone had a good Easter.

[job]

Why not write a letter to him, expressing all of your anger and frustration and then burning it? Telling him how you feel and what he's done will not make him wake up and apologize. He's still too much in the tunnel, but you will get an opportunity at some point to tell him how his behavior has affected you. You will know when the time is right and the door is ajar. You will need to be very calm and keep your voice even toned when having this discussion. If you become emotional, he will turn it off in his head and tune you out.

When he's further along, he may seek you out and apologize to you. But keep it mind, that his actions have to match is words. Sometimes they apologize to appease their guilt and want everything to swept under the rug, i.e., hence the "let's be friends" statement comes into play. This isn't going to work. If his apology is genuine, he will do everything in his power to prove to you that he is sorry...but, for now, you can't sit there waiting on this apology. You have to continue moving forward.

Two years is a very short time in the equation when it comes to dealing w/the mlcer. Don't be so hard on yourself. You were married for a while and this man has destroyed everything that you held near and dear. It's understandable that you feel the way that you do. Holidays and special events will open the wound a bit, but I can promise you, as time moves along, the scar will close and you won't feel it quite as badly as you do now.

Bottom line, you are too hard on yourself. Give yourself all the time you need in order to heal.

Take care.

[LiveNow]

Job - thank you so much for your note and your kind words. I've been really down in the past week or so, still am. And no one around to talk to about this at the moment. Maybe it is the holiday. Everyone is on family vacations, including my XH, with OW, in FLA, with her kids. Ugh. This is SO hard. I was doing much better, but it keeps coming back.

I appreciate the reminder about keeping calm when/if the discussion ever takes place. This is key (in any similar situation, too). I have a hard time keeping things in check when there is so much emotion involved. And as for an apology? I got several already throughout last year, the latest one last October or so. He apologized for everything - except his relationship with OW for a year and a half while we were still married, while he kept me on the back burner. That's the only apology I ever really thought he needed to make - we both made so many mistakes. I could forgive everything else without an apology for those things. I don't think I'll ever get that apology for OW. And yes, he absolutely felt very guilty about everything and wants to 'be friends.' Has told me how sorry he was for being such a 'bad husband.'

I guess I did expect to be 'over him' by now, and sometimes I think I am. But then I have days like this. I keep pretty busy, but I am so, so tired of the loneliness -- I have lots of friends, and some family here, but you all know how it is, at night, first thing in the morning, going to bed and waking up alone, and eating alot of meals alone. And I'm a person who enjoys my alone time! But sometimes it's just too much.

Well, the house is going up for sale in the next couple of weeks, so I know things will be busy for at least a few months. Maybe that will help me keep my mind off things. And I hope once I get into a different place, all those reminders around me daily will be gone. I hope. I also have to go to our vacation home and gather the few things I want from the house. That's going to be difficult too. (He's buying it from me.) I loved that house. I loved summer Friday afternoons, when we'd be on the road by 5, heading north for a weekend in the woods, at the beach together. We lived for that.

Think I will go to yoga tonight, since my meditation class was cancelled!

Oh, can't remember if I already wrote this or not: XSIL (XH's sister) and her H (my old friend from high school) moved into their new house two houses down the road from me. Thank God there is one house in between (XSIL blames me for everything). I can still see their cars, and XH's car if he's over there. It is definitely time to move.

[LiveNow]

And, I like the idea of writing the letter, Job. I wrote my mom a letter after she passed away, that said everything I never got a chance to say. That was about 10 years after she passed. I carried around alot of guilt and sorrow, and after I wrote that letter, it was gone. A huge weight off my shoulders. Whew. I never looked back. I knew she heard me somehow, and that was enough. It might work for this, too -- as I sit here watching the news, where they just finished a story about not carrying around anger, and forgiving someone -- for yourself. The news story said that if you forgive, you are not saying that what the other person did was OK. Rather, you are saying that you have decided NOT TO DWELL on the situation any longer, and you will not give it any more energy. I know we all know this, but it's a good reminder.

Will be seeing my beloved nephews out west on Thursday, for a long 4-day weekend. Looking forward to that.

[123Gwen]

LiveNow, I am so sorry you had a tough holiday. It is natural to grieve a little over these milestones. I like Job's idea about the letter. I journal a lot and some of the posts are to my H though he'll never see it.

As for living so close to XSIL I don't think I could do it. You are bound to feel better when you have your own space. It is very exciting to think of creating your own spot in the world.

Sending you good vibes. I have always wanted to take a meditation class. I will need to look into that. Is it hard to master?

[LiveNow]

Thanks Gwen. Well, I certainly haven't mastered meditation yet! The instructor has been 'practicing' since the 1970s and she will tell you she hasn't mastered it yet either. But, it's not easy. It definitely HAS helped me over the last couple of years though. It does make a pretty big difference if you do it regularly. I just find I think more positively and don't do as much of the 'spinning' that we all talk about here, and I have more patience. It gave me a new way to look at things. If there is a class available near you, try it, at least for an introduction. Then you can do it on your own, if you want to. Some people like the 'group energy.' Boy. I can tell I've slacked off. Too bad the next 4-week session was cancelled!

[LiveNow]

Well, now. Wow. Long time no post. I think I can sum up my recent moods in 3 words: Life is good. It really is. In mid-June, I moved out of our house, to an apartment less than a mile away, but what a difference that one lousy mile makes! Being out of that house lifted a HUGE weight off my shoulders. I woke up every day for 2 years with reminders and memories right in my face, first thing every dang morning. Once I was out (as much as I loved that house), it all stopped.

New surroundings, whatever they are (I hate apartment living), meant a brand new outlook. I am SO grateful to be away from x-BIL and SIL too. I wake up nowadays and don't even think about XH for usually many, many hours. And if I do? It doesn't matter. It's just a thought. That's it. No emotion attached. <heavy sigh of relief> <--- this is what I did for days and days after I moved. I wanted to just lie on the floor because I was so mentally, physically, and emotionally exhausted, and just SIGH. After about a week and a half, I got moving again, and I haven't stopped! My social life has really picked up and I am having FUN again. Even 6 months ago, I would not have thought that possible. I've had a few good dates, and there are lots more opportunities that keep popping up! Who knew?

And, in the middle of my move I bought a house! It's right where I wanted it to be, with all the features I wanted too - except no front porch. I'm going to have to do something about that!

Meanwhile, I've been running alot again, and I'm in pretty good shape for 52! As it happens, I was out running last week, music up loud, singing, smile on my face, full speed....and here comes XH (BTW he has gained about 40 lb since he left 2 years ago) driving down the road toward me. I just kept going, kept smiling. He drove by yet again about 15 minutes later. I just chuckled to myself and kept going.

One kinda sad note...today I wrapped everything up: signed my vacation home away to him, along with a vacant piece of property we owned just down the road from the vacation home. I mentioned before, it was our little piece of heaven. Someday I plan to have another little getaway. I'll be back there, and maybe with a new H. Ha.

I wanted to post this today because I knew I would get to this point sooner or later, but I didn't think it would be this soon. Almost 2 years to the day. I think if we do the hard work, we can get there sooner. I know all of you still struggling with things can get there soon, too. I cannot describe the freedom I feel. And this feeling is holding...I was afraid it was only going to last a few days and then the gloom would return. I know now that the move was the key. To make that clean break and start over.

I am finally excited about my new life, whatever it holds. I want everyone who reads this to know it's ahead for you too. Not easy, but we will all get there, even if many days you don't believe it! Believe it. And we all deserve it, too. We paid the price, now it's time to get living again.

Prayers for all of you on this board...you can do it! And so MANY thanks to all of you who have written to me over the past couple of years. Every little bit helped. No doubt in my mind. What a journey...and it continues, only now I'm on the upswing at last!

LiveNow

[123Gwen]

What a wonderful post & just reading it was truly inspirational. I am a little over a year into all this with kids at home and a health set back (broken shoulder, dominant arm) I am fighting off the feeling of defeat but your post was a ray of sunshine.

So happy to hear of your new beginning. Bravo to you!

[job]

I'm very happy that you've posted an update. I'm sorry you signed over the vacation home and other property, but you can have that again some day. However, I am happy that you are in your new space and will be moving into a new house. The new house will be your space to decorate as you want and you will think of a way to add a front porch. I know you will figure that one out and it will be done to your specifications.

You've come a long way and have been an inspiration to many who come here. Please continue to post your journey because your postings are truly helping others.

I'm very proud of how far you've come. Keep up the good work!

[LiveNow]

Thanks for writing Gwen and Job! Great to hear from you both. Gwen, I just got caught up on your sitch - you sure have a full plate right now. I'm sorry the you-know-what's hitting the fan! Praying for a quick and full recovery for you. I know what you were saying about healing from a physical injury, compared to the emotional trauma of BD. I remember thinking many, many times...that I'd rather be having major surgery than be trying to deal with a broken heart. Neither is a cake-walk, but you know how long you will take to heal physically (and you could take medication that was mostly guaranteed to work!), but it's anybody's guess how long it will take us to dig ourselves out of the dark hole we fell into! You will get there. I think I just finally got sick of feeling bad. And two years of being separated had me itching to get out and be totally myself again - no one's wife, just cast aside one day, seemingly out of the blue. Just ME. We have to be our own best friend. Someone told me recently that when you go out and do something alone, you are not doing it by yourself, you are doing it WITH yourself. Words of wisdom, for sure.

When something this difficult happens to us, it makes us stronger, more resilient, so that anything else we come up against sometime down the road? Heck, we know we can handle it, because we made it through this mess. This whole experience has made me a better person - a better friend, a better employee, a better sister, cousin, niece, and aunt, too! We reap those rewards after we face this head-on.

Thanks so much, Job. I can only hope that those who might read this can take away at least a little something that will help them. So many people, here and in my new (bigger!) world, have helped me, and I will never forget that. Even strangers who listened - I came away feeling so fortunate that we crossed paths, and that they took just a few moments to try and boost me up. I may not have been the best DB'er, but I did everything in my power to save my marriage. That's all I could do.

The past is in the past, and I am so grateful for all of my life-long friends, family, and a bunch of new friends too, who helped me get to a better place. I know I'll still have some challenging times, but I got through the really bad ones, so I know these will also pass. I have to believe that I had to endure this to get to something even better down the road.

Blessings to you all -- LiveNow

[LiveNow]

Hi everyone -- I thought I'd come back and see just how long it's been since I've posted. It's over a year now! Take heart - there is lots of life to live after you get yourself through this very tough time. I'm in my new house (hardly new now -- I just passed the one-year mark!) and I love it. It's mine, and it's hard sometimes to make all my own decisions with home maintenance, etc., but I'm figuring it all out. And I'm lucky -- the homeowner just before me (this house was built in 1968) did a whole bunch of major upgrades, and then sold it to me! New roof, new windows, new AC, etc. So, things are holding up well. But, alas, fall has arrived, and it feels like it today, after a long, lovely, hot summer here in the midwest. So I need to think about furnace tune-up, snowblower maintenance, how to cover up my attic fan, fall cleanup outside, etc.!

Anyway, I was prompted to write because I actually got an e-mail the other day from my XH, letting me know he is retiring at the end of this month, at the age of 57. (We've had no communication since our finances wrapped up, about a year ago.) Says he doesn't know what's next for him, but he hated his job, hated going in every day, most of his friends have also retired or moved on. He was there about 15 years, and he must have hated about half of those years. I know because I listened to the same complaints day in and day out for a very long time. I'm convinced his unhappiness in his career had more to do with his MLC than I first thought. Seems he still is in that tunnel somewhere, and I'm fairly certain he is not regularly going to counseling. I could be wrong about that, but I would think he would have retired sooner if that were the case. He has spent the past 3 years playing boyfriend and 'dad' to someone 17 years younger and her two very young children, and has avoided his real life. He has avoided his real life. I'm thinking now he will really have to face himself and fix whatever's wrong on the inside -- he will have plenty of free time for that!

As I'm typing this, something just dawned on me: he has been unhappy for so long, so he removed what he thought was making him so unhappy (me), and he was still unhappy. So now, it must be the job -- if he leaves his job too, then he will be happy, right? Oh boy. Wow. Guess what, XH? It's inside. When will he figure that out?

So we went back and forth a couple of times via e-mail. I told him I love my house, love my new town, and that I hope he finds something worth doing. I also sent him a link to a video on YouTube - 'Cool Change' (Little River Band), which just happens to be full of inspirational quotes (never mind the spelling errors!). He thanked me for that - followed by an exclamation point!

So interesting. I just observe from afar now. I can't believe I spent over 20 years with this person - and I NEVER see him now. It just seems so strange. But there are many, many days that go by that I'm just too busy to think about him or us. I'm much more interested in what this weekend's plans are with my friends. I've met some very nice men (nothing serious yet -- am I really ready???), so, yes, there are some out there! And there seems to be a large pool in my age group (early 50's). Midlife!

Oh, and here's a little perk: his retirement means I'll start getting my half of his pension starting 10/1. :-) I just got a little raise.

Meanwhile, I'm working hard, staying healthy, and having fun. And I remain ever grateful to all those who did their part in helping to get me here, including this board. Better times are indeed ahead, folks. My tattoo on my arm (that I got about 2 years ago, about the time XH filed) reminds me to 'Let it be' (whatever 'it' is). Funny...my CEO at work saw it for the first time the other day, and said he really liked it. :-D

My very best wishes to all of you on this board, fighting to get through this mess. Keep reading here -- so many helpful people, each and every one.

-- LiveNow

[job]

Welcome back!

You sound great and I'm so happy you've moved into your new home and love he area.

Yes your xh now feels the job isn't making him happy and he's going to find retirement isn't going to make him any happier, but we'll see. Interesting to see that his is playing boyfriend and father to someone 17 years younger than himself and she has two young children. Retirement sounds like it's going to be babysitting time for him. LOL!

I'm very happy that things are working out well for you. Please don't be a stranger and come back to visit more often. We are always interested in hearing the success stories of our posters.