Thanks everybody! Shining, I don't really see him much at all, really only when/if he comes over to cut the lawn or pick up his mail, which, now that the growing season is ending, will be once every few weeks - maybe. I haven't seen him on a weekend since almost exactly 1 year ago. Only weekdays. Hm - where could he have been spending his weekends? DUH. Anyway, I think I set the deadline mainly for practical reasons. Spring is a good time to start looking for a house, and by then our vacation home should be sold so I'll have some money to do that. I do not want to move before March. I've moved in the middle of the winter before - it is SO not fun! I also set the deadline because I just have a gut feeling that that is all I'm going to be able to take. It's just all ENOUGH already. If I were younger, I might be willing to wait longer, but I really loved being married, so why waste any more time with someone who doesn't want to be with me?
Now, if, by some miracle, we are having R talks and piecing, I would reconsider. I do love him, but have seen NO movement to try and salvage our marriage in the past 15 months. None. And he walks such a fine, fine line, taking such great care (it seems) to convey things in such a way that I could so easily take them one way or the other - like, he's reconsidering, no, wait, that could also mean he really does want out. I really don't know how he does it. He is so incredibly vague and non-committal. I don't think I could do that if I tried! And yeah, if my feelings do change sooner, and I want out, then I will still wait til spring so I have the best chance of finding a decent place to live.
GB, Calvin and Matt are BIG stars around here! But heck, it takes more than those 2 guys to pull off a win! Still, fans are die-hards around here...at least we can actually win some games now!
Mighty, thanks for the encouragement. This seems like a piece of cake compared to everything you are struggling with! I don't know how you do it, and keep a level head. But keep it up. It's workin' for you!
LT, you might be right. I do feel that I have certainly let go alot in the past couple of months, but yes, I probably am still waiting for that sign. Just like I said above, I've seen NONE - and I keep looking. But I'm running out of patience, and that's where I think I came up with the deadline. I just know I can't be one of the LBSs who waits for 2, 3, 4 years. That just isn't who I am. I have a life to live, and I still feel like it's on hold in so many ways because of this. I have done so much good stuff for myself this year, so it doesn't really hold me back, but those plans we all had for the future? Still holding onto those, still haven't been able to really let those go. I wanted to grow old together, and take care of each other. I still want to do that. I thought that by signing that mediation agreement and saying I didn't want to stand in the way of his happiness - and I did mean that and 'lovingly let go' - it might slap him in the face a little with reality as well. Indeed, he came running and said he wanted to talk, and that's when he explained he was reading the book I gave him and took more blame for all the mess we're in. And then in the next breath says he'll set up a time for an appraisal for this house (so he can buy me out). MIXED signals -- all the time! So frustrating.
And thanks so much, Mirage, for sharing your personal experience. As you explain it, I can certainly imagine that incredible pain inside his head -- I believe I have had something very similar in my own head for the past year, as a result of his. I didn't even know I could hurt this much. Lately, the last few months, it's quite a bit less. I know, without a doubt, I'll be fine with or without him. But life just isn't all that fun without him! It's so hard to find people who really like to do the things I like to do. I'm a very active 51-year-old, and many of my friends would rather watch a movie than do anything physical. I love them, but I need a few new ones who will do certain things that my H was always game for. Working on that.
Again, thanks for all your replies. You make me think. And thanks for the reminder that he's in as much, if not more, pain than I am right now. Sorry this is so long, but I guess it was all due to come out soon, since I hadn't posted in so long! Gotta pack for the long weekend - one more day of work and I'm outta here!
Me 53, XH 57 M 20 (+1.5) years, no kids BD June '13 H moved out July '13 Confirmed long-suspected PA Feb '14 H filed for D Nov. '14 D March '15
It was a warm October night. The last of the summer crickets were singing their final notes before the long winter silence. In the orange of the Halloween porch lanterns she sits, laptop aglow, a glass of wine nearby, thoughts coming and going, contemplating how different her life is now - 1 year and 4 months post BD...
Hi DB'ers. I continue to be inspired by all of you. I read alot, haven't posted much. H shows up every week or 10 days, or so, to blow the leaves off the lawn, or cut it, or pick up his mail. Still don't know where his apartment is, but know the vicinity. That's good enough for now. He comes by last week, I make him stay and talk. He talks, cries some, talks some more. This man is in a deep depression and can't seem to get himself out. His biggest issue is that we never had children. This is THE issue that I, myself, been trying to accept for several years now. I feel I'm almost there, and have found a few ways to fill that empty space. He is stuck almost right where he was at BD, and still not in counseling. I finally asked him if he wanted the name of someone recommended to me, and he agreed. Of course, this is not the first time he has said he needs counseling - and then doesn't follow up. I know that HE knows he needs to go. I keep praying that he does - for his own sake. I can't stand to see him SO incredibly sad, feeling like he has no life purpose.
I am sad too, and have many regrets. But, as we all learn here, we fill up our lives with activities that make us happy. I think I've done a pretty good job of that in this past year. And every time I see H, I am reminded of how much work I've done, and that it has paid off.
Something new: I start a mentoring training program tomorrow, and will get matched with a child by the end of the year. I'm really looking forward to it. A result of more soul searching...
Anyway, I am so grateful for what I DO have, and H is SO focused on what he does NOT have in life. I refuse to join him in that place, however difficult life is sometimes. All I can do for him is pray. And I vow to do that every day for him, starting today. (Wow...could I really, finally be on the road to forgiveness??)
The pumpkin lantern cast its eerie shadow...an owl hoots in the trees...the crickets just keep singing while they still can...
(Ok, maybe all this contemplation is the afterglow of my Monday evening meditation class, and this weekend's meditation retreat??? Ha.)
Me 53, XH 57 M 20 (+1.5) years, no kids BD June '13 H moved out July '13 Confirmed long-suspected PA Feb '14 H filed for D Nov. '14 D March '15
LiveNow, such a beautiful melody of writing! Wonderfully descriptive, and it creates such a strong ... whom am I kidding? I can't write like you. So I guess I will simply say "well done".
Thanks Wet. I write for a living, but not that kind of writing! Maybe I just needed a creative outlet. Heh heh.
Anyway, back on the freakin' rollercoaster today, big time. So when H was here last Thursday (as described), he mentioned an e-mail he had sent me, but that I had not seen. Couldn't find it in my in-box. I decided to look around in my spam folder - and lo and behold, there it was, dated last Wednesday, the day before we talked. It described, in detail, what he wanted out of our 'asset division'. He used words he'd never use, like 'flatware' (?!). Ohhhkaaay. Seems to me he had some type of template he followed. Anyway, I was shocked to read it all, since he was here the very next day and didn't mention ANY of those details - and still hasn't. In the meantime, found out him and OW still going strong.
So, at this point, he clearly thinks (from the e-mail) that we can divide things up without any sticking points. There are 2 huge red flags in the e-mail that he MUST be aware of: he says he'll keep his pension, and there is no mention of spousal support. This will certainly not fly with me - we have been married for 21 years and I am entitled to both.
Now, I know most of you are not attorneys, but if anyone can chime in here, I'd be most grateful. I have not yet responded to the e-mail, and he is still under the impression that I never got it. After seeing it, I have climbed to the top of the fence, and I am starting to tip toward D. SO tired of all of it. So the question is...should I just wait and see what happens next? It's been almost a week since he sent it. I assume he'll send it again (as he said he would), and then probably tell me to look for it. Should I print it out and take it to my attorney and prepare a response, before going to a mediator?? Mind you, he has not set up any appointment nor retained the mediator yet.
That e-mail is pretty detailed, and obviously he has thought things through. I have a plan in my head (in case it came to this), just have not shared any of it with him. Well, so much for the peace and quiet from last night!!! All he!! just broke loose. I keep trying to tell myself, believe none of what he says and only half of what he does...I just keep praying. Today I prayed for a clear sign of what to do next. And not 2 hours later I found the e-mail.
Oh, and something arrived in the mail yesterday: a brochure for a local ski resort that (I know) H and OW went to last winter. And guess what? It was addressed to HER. WTF?! This just makes it easier for me to move toward D. Fasten your seat belts - it's going to be a bumpy ride.
As always, thanks for everyone's support here. Wish we could meet in person. How do you guys set that up? It would help so much to talk to someone 'live', who is going through this crap...
Me 53, XH 57 M 20 (+1.5) years, no kids BD June '13 H moved out July '13 Confirmed long-suspected PA Feb '14 H filed for D Nov. '14 D March '15
Yes, take it to your attorney who will be the one to best guide you on how to get an equitable distribution of the marital property.
Now I know nothing about Michigan law, but I can speak generally. All part of compensation including pensions are considered "marital" property. This means it should be divided equitably between the two of you.
21 years of marriage is clearly a point where spousal maintenance could be paid. But on this especially, you need to speak to your attorney. Good luck.
I agree with Wet that you need an attorney or mediator to help u split things up. The laws var from state to state. Spousal support is no longer a given no matter how long you were married. A lot of states are now using it for a limited time to help a spouse to get back on their feet and get training or schooling to get back into the work force. Since you never had any children and probably worked your whole married life then you may not get any spousal support. Pension funds typically are split 50 50, half of his to you and half of yours to him. This may be adjusted depending on who earns more from what I understand.
Twisting on Life's Rope Me53 W53 M20 D21 D19 D16 BD 2-2013 D final 1-2015 _________________________ "Dream about tomorrow, Live for today, Learn from yesterday"
If your H asks you if what he proposes is okay with you, say, "That's a lot to think about. I don't feel comfortable deciding right now."
What if he pressures you for an answer?
The financial planner people rehearsed this response with me until I knew it by heart:
"I want what I'm entitled to under the law." That's all you ever have to say. You say it calmly and forthrightly. It's not a challenge, it's a fact.
You need an attorney, or a certified divorce financial planner to look at your finances and determine the best way to split things up. Interview a couple of them. I didn't have to deal with custody issues so I focused on finding a good financial planner, and asked them for recommendations for attnys who worked in a collaborative or mediation environment.
(I cried through every interview. I did not want to D. But my H seemed gung ho to D me and I refused to let everything we worked so hard for three decades to be eaten up by taxes, combative lawyers or H's tantrums.)
You've got to look at the long term: say you spend X amount of dollars on an attny or a financial planner, where X = several mortgage payments. That's terrifying, but the financial planner will probably save you that much in child support/alimony within one or two years. In my case, they would've saved me more than that much every year until my support ran out. So it's worth it.
Until you have someone to review your stuff, don't agree to anything.
They told me: it's better for my H to offer first. I was to bring his offer back to them for review and they would help me decide. His offer may or may not have been equitable; if they decided it WAS it equitable, then I could accept it and would've avoided a lot of hassle and cost. If not, I would've brought it back to the table.
They also told me that if H was going to throw too many tantrums, that it would be more cost-effective in the long run to go from mediation to collaborative D. I hired the financial planners to keep our costs as low as possible, and after the lecture on how divorce is the most expensive financial transaction of a couple's lives, that's what they did: strategize so it would be less expensive all around.
Even in mediation you shouldn't agree until a consulting professional (attorney or divorce financial planner) reviews the proposal. Say you all come up with a proposal in mediation. It's perfectly normal to say, "All right, I'm going to take this to an attny for review and will get back to you."
M:54, H:55 T:33, M:27 12/13 BD: EA 01/14 BD: PA, H leaves 03/14 H & OW break up 05/14 H says he will file for D 08/14 H initiates D 09/14 H wants to R 12/14 Still bungling our way through R
Thx Wet, LT, and Nitty. Helpful advice, for sure. I know my mantra: don't sign ANYTHING until attorney reviews it.
For the moment, since he still doesn't know that I have now seen this e-mail from him, I'm just going to wait and see what he does next. With a history of major procrastination, it could take another few days before he does anything. He said he would re-send it, when I told him I had not seen it -- that was a week ago. I'm curious to see if he (1) does that, and (2) makes some changes to it!
Had dinner with 3 fellow Divorce-Care graduates. Always good to touch base every couple of weeks. I am the only one now who is not divorced. Weird - they are moving on with their lives, and all doing well. I keep looking to them to keep me going. They have all been through so much. They inspire me -- as do all of you, too!
Me 53, XH 57 M 20 (+1.5) years, no kids BD June '13 H moved out July '13 Confirmed long-suspected PA Feb '14 H filed for D Nov. '14 D March '15
Oh, and I'm getting my (first, and probably only) tattoo this Sunday! It will say: "Let it be" - a reminder for me to just accept what is, and...Live Now! Excited!
Me 53, XH 57 M 20 (+1.5) years, no kids BD June '13 H moved out July '13 Confirmed long-suspected PA Feb '14 H filed for D Nov. '14 D March '15
It's been almost 3 weeks since H sent the e-mail detailing his ideas on how we would divide up our 'assets.' He finally sent it again today, and this time it did not end up in the Junk folder. There were a few changes, but most of it is the same. Basically everything is 50-50, but of course he makes no mention of spousal support and states that he would keep his pension (of which I'm entitled to half, after 21 years of marriage). Months ago, he suggested we hire a mediator to work this out. He never did that. This e-mail, however, indicates to me that we will need one.
I will likely take it to my attorney (or more likely, financial advisor) to get some preliminary advice, before even heading into any mediation. Right now, he appears to think (mind-reading, yes) that I'll pretty much roll over and play dead, and let him keep all of 'his' big accounts.
So, to respond to the e-mail, how about something like this:
H, there is alot to consider, and it will take some time to sort through it all. When you get a chance, please drop off our tax records for the last 3 years so we (I?) can get started. (He took them from our files a while ago without telling me.)
Any thoughts? I don't want to start sending flaming arrows back and forth and let things get nasty...
Me 53, XH 57 M 20 (+1.5) years, no kids BD June '13 H moved out July '13 Confirmed long-suspected PA Feb '14 H filed for D Nov. '14 D March '15
