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#2485797 09/06/14 11:22 PM
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ces67 Offline OP
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Ok. So its been a while. Staying in this forum just because I'm not a newcomer and I haven't filed for a D yet.

It was back in December that I finally took my wedding ring off. It was just a reminder of a promise that no longer mattered to my W. Still act like a married man though because that's the promise I made. Since December I have placed milestones in my own mental process for what may come next. Each time there was something I wanted to get past before I pursued a D - holidays, W's birthday, anniversary of W's mom's death, waiting to see if W got a full time teaching job. All these have now past.

W did not get a teaching job. She is currently working 3 jobs to help with the bills. At least that's what she says. Somehow the help never shows up though. But I'll talk about that later.

W's depression is bad. I got a text from her earlier this week asking if I thought I and the kids would be better off without her. I replied that I didn't know what she meant by this and we needed to talk face to face about it. That happened today.

For those just reading this I am in year 4 from bomb day. W has had a PA, EA, credit card addition including opening cards in my name without telling me, diagnosis of depression which have included suicidal thoughts.

Last night W said she was going to spend the night with a couple friends from her work. I told her I didn't like the idea and that she was starting to do this more often and given our history I didn't appreciate it. She agreed to come home. What she didn't say is that "coming home" meant 4:30 this morning. My car had died the night before so I got up early to go take care of it (which I did). As I was clearing out the back of our SUV I found the corner of a torn foil wrapper - Yep, 1 latex condom. I went into the house, woke up my W and told her what I had found and said I wanted answers. I was angry, I was stern but I was not yelling. I'd been through something like this before and I felt much more in control of myself.

W was adamant that it was not hers, she didn't know where it came from. She broke out in tears saying it wasn't her and she couldn't explain it. At this point, whether or not I believed it was irrelevant. A finger-pointing exercise would get me no where. I told her I didn't believe her. I wanted to but I'd been lied to so many times that I just couldn't. (And part of this was yelling). She pursued me and wanted to talk about it so rather than leaving the house I sat down and we talked. We talked about her depression, our dead marriage, the fact that her text was about suicide.

She said she could not go through with a suicide but she truly wished she had some type of disease that would kill her. She said that if it was any other disease besides depression that people wouldn't be so angry with her.

Somewhere in there I let her know that I did love her and that I missed her. But I also said that I had to accept that she would not let me be part of her life. I let her know that I wanted a divorce. She is completely against it. She said we need to stay together for the kids but she does not see a need for us to build a healthy marriage. I let her know that for me, we were already divorced. We were completely separated emotionally, physically, socially and spiritually. The rest was just paperwork.

She said we did have a life together because of our kids. I disagreed and said we would still have our lives with the kids after we divorced. Then she tried to tell me that I was abandoning my family. I replied that I was not her father and I wasn't abandoning my family and I have every intention of being an active part of my kids lives after a divorce. (Her father left the family when she was 13, and the only other time she saw him was when her mom died when she was 16).

The arguing started going in circles again. She wants to stay married but not be married. I said I was tired of settling for a fake marriage and was not willing to accept that this is as good as it will ever get. She left for work and we're both angry. Nothing is resolved

The kids aren't aware of this discussion (at least I don't think so). But they know things are bad. My son told me last week that he knows things are good and that he and is sister are probably the only reason we're still married. He also told me that once he's out of the house, he doesn't expect to stay in touch with his mom too much. He said he was tired of how she constantly tells him he should be better and how he so often feels not good enough because she's always disappointed. (yes, I'm looking for a counselor for him).

I did ask my son about the condom wrapper as well. He said he wouldn't be surprised if it was one of his friends. He says a few of them carry them in their wallets and it could have fallen out one of the many times we've carted them around.

So the talks I needed to have, I've started. They are not over by any means. Historically after fights like this, my W and I both retreat and gradually fall into a basic routine of life like nothing happened. I'm not willing to do that this time. Sorry for the long post. Guess that's what happens when you stay away for a while.


Me:45, W:45
S:16 D:13
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
Putting finances in order for "D"
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Is your W on any medication? Does she see a therapist?

I heard so much hurt in her words when she said that she'd rather have a disease that killed her because then people wouldn't be so angry with her. Depression doesn't kill you directly but it definitely [censored] the life out of you and everyone around you.

Is she getting the help she needs?

I can't imagine being in a marriage that has NOTHING but kids in it. The kids aren't getting anything out of that either. She's not willing to work on it but she doesn't want a divorce. Sounds like depression big time.

So, what are you doing DB wise?


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
D: 7
Bomb: 6/30/14
Separation: 8/11/14

Be strong enough to let go and wise enough to wait for what you deserve.
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ces67 Offline OP
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We've done marriage counseling twice and she bailed both times. But our counselor did refer her to an individual counselor. She went for a while but stopped going there as well. She says she doesn't have the money to go back but she always has the money to buy new clothes.

She has been on medication but allows herself to go off it for periods of time. Now is one of those times.

This was a turning point for me. I've tried over the last 4 years to trust, help, support and encourage both her treatments and her jobs and activities. So much so that I've become a crutch. It wasn't helping her get better. I'm having to change the way I have enabled her away a little at a time (and have been for the past several months). These are painful for her. She wants to blame me, others or God for all this. I listen but no longer take responsibility for her actions. I expected her to be angry and attack back. I'm slow, but I do learn.

As far as DB, I have to let her go. I have to enforce healthy boundaries for myself and our kids. She is not abusive at all. She cares deeply for our kids. But her depression is impacting us all. I told her I want a healthy (not perfect) marriage and want it with her. But I have to accept that she is not willing to be part of it.


Me:45, W:45
S:16 D:13
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
Putting finances in order for "D"
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,877
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(((((CES)))))


Adinva 51, S20, S18
M24 total
6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out
9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50
5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend
__
Happiness is a warm puppy.
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ces67 Offline OP
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Update. W has bounced around between avoidance to anger to controlling.

W is more stressed about money these days because I have withheld any assistance (aka enabling her poor habits). I got a text earlier in the week saying that we should not travel for either holidays and each of us take turns with the kids to go see our own families. I have a nephew getting married next month and she has an aunt & uncle with a 50th anniversary celebration at the beginning of January. This bothered me for 2 reasons. First, she "tells" rather than asks or discusses. And second, My mom has cancer and possibly 2 years or less left. Telling me I shouldn't take my kids to see her over the holidays made me angry. I replied and let her know how I felt about that. But towards the end I was so frustrated that I said maybe we shouldn't travel because something had to give based upon our finances. Here's the response I got...

"This isn't the way it was suppose to all happen...You were suppose to get a job right away...[I was out of work for 15 months with the majority of that covered by severance pay] We were suppose to have extra income for a while [she ask that i turn down the first job offer that would have allowed this because she didn't want to move to that city]..We were suppose to move to XXXCity[more on this below]...have a fresh start. God was going to take care of us.. We were suppose to fall in love...This isn't what was suppose to happen...I was suppose to be a good mom. This is what was suppose to happen."

So I perceive this to be full of both sadness and resentment. Quick history - I got 3 job offers all at the same time. One was to the city where her sister lived but with no relocation covered - 1200 miles away. One was local with horrible pay and a horrible job. The last was the one I took. Best pay. relocation covered and placed us mid way between her family and mine. W said she supported this and even said she may not want to be close to her sister for fear of family competition (long story, not relevant).

This also frustrates me because it was hard to fall in love with me when she was having an affair. It was hard to pay down our debt when she was traveling back to the home state to see this guy under the disguise of seeing her friends (OM's wife). And it was also hard to pay down debt as W used all her money plus tons of credit cards to buy herself clothes and party with friends.

Not sure how the tone of this is coming across. I'm actually rather calm. Just putting my logical thoughts down. Not that they matter. Its just so very unfortunate that after 4 years my W still avoids any acknowledgement of how her actions contributed to the death of our marriage. She is so use to being a victim. She continues to choose that option to accept misery. Its sad. I also know based upon all the reading I've done that it is very textbook reactions to depression and being raised by alcoholics.

If this were any other illness I'd be fully in to support and see her through. Is it really harder because it depression or is that just me? There is still part of me that feels guilty for considering divorce. But if she continues to make choices that do not help her or this family, does my staying really help? She will not accept help from me except when it comes to getting the kids where they need to go and any money she can get from me.

I feel the need to start the divorce filing. There is still some thought that it may jar her into actually doing something different but that is a very small thought and I know that once I start, I will see it through to completion.

The other concern I have is that I know my kids don't want to leave our house. My son especially says he likes it here and enjoys that there is room for his friends to come over. But within a few months, my son will be driving and that will be a major change to his social activities. I know this will be hard and sad for both my son and daughter. But its hard now and there's no sign of improvement.

Once again I'm talking myself in circles. (Its a well rehearsed talent of mine). Going to call and get an appointment with a lawyer before the end of the month. 4 years of history shows that W will not take part in this marriage, period.


Me:45, W:45
S:16 D:13
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
Putting finances in order for "D"
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,877
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It would be nice for her to agree with how you see things. If you know you are doing the right thing, you need to be able to know that even if she vehemently disagrees with you.

Also, I understand wanting to minimize disruption for the kids but together you'll make a home of where ever you are. It is good for them to learn stuff is just stuff. It's easier to say from the outside of the situation, but it's what I believe. They'll get through fine if you lead confidently and with love.


Adinva 51, S20, S18
M24 total
6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out
9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50
5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend
__
Happiness is a warm puppy.
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Posts: 9,676
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I just saw this today. I'm s sorry. I agree with Ad. ((( )))


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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I re-read your last post and have something to add. (surprise!)

Living the way you are now is also affecting the kids. It may be more insidious but it's there.

She's a survivor, not healthy but a survivor nevertheless. She's trying to survive in the only way she knows how.

You don't have to be a part of that.

Take the steps you need to take, the road ahead will change in ways we can't predict. Be open.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 589
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Wow. Just read through this and your last thread and if I didn't know any better I would think your W and my H were the same person. Except as far as I know there has been no A. Although there is a friendship that makes me uncomfortable, mostly because I think he is feeding off my insecurity and feeding into it.

I am also ready to file. But also not ready. I am the one the who needed the job, and now I have it--I have the means to support myself now, although this area is too expensive and I'd want to move closer to my parents. It would be a longer commute for me, but I don't mind that. The kids are the only reason I hesitate to do anything--they don't want to leave their school. That and maybe some last thread of hope that the man I married is still in there somewhere. He is always telling me he is "surviving" that is all that his life is about right now. There is no joy, and home is like a prison to him. Yet he won't leave. He grumbles, complains, does things to make it clear to me he wants nothing to do with me, but he won't leave.

Alanon has helped me, and I was told not to make any changes until after being in the program for a year. But this situation is becoming unbearable and I'm starting to feel like a fool for letting it continue. Even some of his family members are telling me to "kick him to the curb". But I can't force him out, and our housing is tied to his employment. So legal action is the only thing I can think of to move past the status quo. But that pisses me off. Why do I have to do his dirty work of ending this marriage? I just wish he would just leave. Let us get to the end of the school year, and then we can move on from there.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread, but your story was so familiar. And hearing it coming from someone else allows me to see it from the outside which makes me feel like maybe it is time to just file and be done with it. Anything is better than this.


40s 2teens M14Y
BD-10/12/13 rec-1/14
BD2-5/14 rec2-9/14
EA disc-10/14 4/15-BD 3 and triangulation ensues
Served with D6/15 MS forced to leave7/15
D agreement signed 8/16 final 5/17
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ces67 Offline OP
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Hi Mustardseed, Thanks for stopping by. I've not been on here in well over a month or two so sorry for not responding sooner.

This past weekend I brought up divorce again. It was the first time I've mentioned it since my post back in September. I got the same speech. She will not divorce me and will fight it. But she will also not work on our marriage. She did say she was trying to be "nicer" though. I let her know that was not enough and that I wanted to be able to share lives and that isn't happening.

For me it really is down to setting up the appointment with a lawyer and presenting her the papers. I let her know I could not continue in this marriage another year.

I've held on for a long time. Various reasons at various points which include the following...
*the kids
*hope of change
*uncertainty of what I should do
*fear of the unknown
*disbelief that I would ever actually have to file for D

I get the anger of being placed in your position. Good to acknowledge it and deal with it for you. But in the end, the situation is what it is and it will be up to you to do something different to get something different.

It will probably be another month or 2 before I get back on her so good luck to you. Hope you enjoy your new job and its one that provides you a lot of positive reinforcement. We all need that, especially when its not available at home.


Me:45, W:45
S:16 D:13
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
Putting finances in order for "D"
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
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