still holding on - 4

[u-turn]

So all is not as good as it seems - so I do need to step back.

My restless night brought me some different thoughts:

Others have been asked here, what did she love about you? I cannot honestly answer that. I have been a good husband and good father. I don't know if that is what she loved about me.

We met in high school, married fairly young, first child was born 2 months after we were married. We had our struggles. We started with no money and bad jobs, we had financial struggles, but I improved my jobs throughout to improve our lives. I worked a lot when we needed it most. (too much at times and that was an issue).

When it became too much for me, her, and the kids, I quit my job and started a business out of our home. I made sacrifices.

I don't know if she loved me for any of this.

We have been great friends, best friends.

Our love life was good, I think improving through last year. I don't know if she loved me for this.

At one of our few MC sessions in the spring, she was asked what she loves about me. She said I would give her anything and always take care of her and the kids. Is that enough?

She has a good career now, the kids are older, does she know that she does not need me now?

I am thinking of myself and how I can become more like the man she fell in love with.. I don't know what or who that is.

I know what my feelings for her are, but I don't really know her's for me. She says she loves me, and still says it sometimes, but I don't know why or how.

[dawgy]

Turn , I have asked myself the same questions ,what did she love about me and how do I portray that self again . This is a hard question . You brought up an interesting point also about the fact she has a good career now and she doesnt need you anymore . I believe that is a huge factor with my sitch . The loyalty our women have is pathetic . After years of sacrifice earning and overtime while she didnt make much money ( although she worked very hard as a stay at home mom for 10 years ) , now she has a good career and earning a good income she says screw you H , I dont need you anymore . That ticks me off to no end .Some days I feel alot of anger towards her , just for things like that .

However Turn , your sitch genuinely looks like it is improving , I mean it really seems like she has seen the light . Remember the WAS doesnt always apologize or show remorse for what they have done . They only want to get away from the pain and the shame of what theyve done and carry on with their lives with their spouse pretending like the A never happened .And maybe our duty as a devouted spouse trying to save our marriages is do exactly that . Its the past , forgive and forget .Move on , if you still want her . My position as of now is to get her back and forgive and forget , get as much of my life back as possible then once I have that ........ Dawgy

[Old Dog]

Same here you guys. After so many years raising the boys and then part time jobs which were not very satisfying, my WAW now has a full time job she loves and wants to move onwards and upwards.

And me, I took a job 180 miles away to feed and clothe our family and have been cast aside.

For me though, I don't want to be the guy she fell in love with once. I want to be a new improved version. I have so many problems that if I don't work on them somehow I'm going to be unhappy for the rest of my days.

Maybell recommended a book for me to read - No More Mr Nice Guy - and it's illuminating and depressing at the same time recognising the character traits I share.

Keep on keeping on you guys, I follow your threads even if I don't post too regularly.

(Not so) Old Dog xx

[u-turn]

Thanks guys for commenting.

It's Thursday and I ALWAYS feel differently on Thursday (I have no idea why). I get a little pushy, a little destructive. I am trying to dial that back and figure out what happens on Thursday. I will vent here.

I do feel like it may be about power with her. I feel used. She has the power to do whatever she wants, manipulate the entire situation to fit into whatever plan she has. Keep anything she needs in her back pocket until she wants or needs to use it. I sometimes think she has it all figured out and this is exactly the way she wants it.

She claims the apposite - she has lost power in all of this. But I feel that She has complete control and she is just playing a game.

(Here's some honesty - she started taking birth control pills 3 months ago - not needed for our relationship obviously - nor would it be necessary for the last 12 years (V). she still is taking them. I don't know what to do with this knowledge. She knows that I know she started taking them, she doesn't know that I know that she is still taking them. This knowledge weighs heavily on me)

[Maybell]

Hey you guys,

I've stayed home for the last 12 years and am just now looking to return to my career. I can tell you that the twelve years of SAHMing got to be more and more of a slog as time went by. My H seemed to have a great life -- lunches out, interesting travel, dinners, happy hours, a paycheck that validated the value of his work, and regular performance reviews to let him know how well he was doing in his job.

I had NONE of that. My job never required me to dress better than yoga pants and a t-shirt (though I did, to make myself feel better). My minimum standard for a good day was getting a full cup of HOT coffee in the mornings and a shower. I always got the coffee and mostly got the shower, but the coffee was not always hot and not usually a full cup.

My husband said he valued what I did, but I didn't FEEL valued. Society tends to belittle SAHMs, as though we're just watching the kids play and eating bonbons the rest of the day. I dealt with the kids all day long, and I was the one who got up with them in the night, too, EVERY TIME. My husband would dry heave at the sight of vomit, so who gets that job? Well, we can't leave it laying around, can we?

Now I'm looking for a job, and I anticipate it's going to change EVERYTHING for me. Finally, someone will SHOW me how valuable I am. Finally my education will be put to good use, and I'll have feedback as to whether I've done something right. I'll meet people and go to dinners (when my childcare situation permits), and I'll have someone besides a four year old to look at me when I do my hair and put on make up.

The relief of finally getting appreciated for your work, validated in your contributions, and possibly even thanked from time to time... you can't know what that feels like. It's like finally discovering you're human again. It's like coming out of a cave into the light.

I'm not going to say that you guys didn't appreciate your wives, because you're writing as though you did. But you can't know just how very, very lonely the job of SAHM can be, and if the intimacy was lacking, if you weren't aware of how lonely the job was and how unappreciated your wives felt, then of course you're going to blame the job for her leaving, rather than considering what a difference the change in lifestyle makes for her expectations of how good her life can be.

You all clearly love your wives a lot, and I'm sure you didn't intend, or even realize, how they might have felt. Possibly your wives were so immersed in the busy-ness of that lifestyle that they did't realize it either. But if you point fingers at their new careers, rather than looking a little deeper at what a difference those careers made to them, then you're going to be missing some really valuable and helpful information.

You know, my two cents.

[Ahoy]

Hey u-turn, instead of dwelling on what she might love about you, focus on what you love about yourself and explore (and expand) that. Maybe you've forgotten?

[u-turn]

Thanks Maybell
I know that being a SAHM for was such an important part of her and our lives. It was a decision that was made by us after our second was born. She says she has no regrets about this. It did cause money conflicts at the time - I was commuting to work and away from the house more than she liked - and really more than I liked too. At the time I felt that I was giving what I could, but I learned that I was really loosing what was important. Our family life was suffering because of it - I could see that it was actually destroying us because I could not find the balance.

11 years ago I decided to make the drastic change of giving it all up and starting a business (with Mrs. U-turn) and working from home - We basically in a way became stay at home parents (It was GREAT) we were business partners too (life was good). The economy changed and she went out to get a job and I became somewhat of a stay at home dad then while still running the business.

I totally understand and value the new career that she has begun and earned. She loves it and I am proud of her. She is valued and needed by so many people now at work. It has to feel good.

I totally wish that I was more mature and did things better when she was a SAHM. I felt I was doing the best that I could at the time.

I also wish the I handled myself better when she got this new job and transitioned myself into other roles at home. I totally dropped the ball again on that one - I believe that is what I'm actually trying to recover from.

[u-turn]

Thanks for the reminder Ahoy.

My insecurities really do come out some times. If ever asked what I love about myself, I would have to make something up and not really be sincere about it.

I have not ever been really good at loving myself. I've beaten myself up so much in life. It is one of the things that W said she was tired of helping me with.

I sometimes feel that I have focused my adult life on giving to everyone else and not myself (and that made me feel good - I was proud of that).

I have worked a lot.... (to provide, to create, to make others happy, to make me feel accomplished, to make others proud of me) but I have never done anything just fun for myself, and I have never cared that I didn't. I got joy out of being a husband and father. That's what I loved about myself.

[Ahoy]

I think giving to others can be a great source of joy, and you should definitely love that about yourself. Nothing wrong about that. You're still a father, so love how you handle your relationship with your kids. If giving is what you love, then maybe seek out other opportunities outside your immediate circle (volunteer at food bank, help build houses for Habitat for Humanity, etc.). Or perhaps seek out other things that bring you joy and love that you haven't tried before. Now is the time to dream for yourself. Your kids will be grown in no time. Envision what you want for your life then (independent of the situation with your W).

[u-turn]

I've been working on myself, always busy, and not being overly talkative with W. She is seeing this - we did spend some time together with kids this weekend. This morning she e-mailed me asking me to communicate more, don't be afraid, stop worrying so much, just be you. She is asking me about my feelings. She said she wants to move forward and work on us.

She seems to have been heading in this direction, but I don't know what to do now. I know to play it cool, but do I bring up my concerns? do I ask about her status with OM? I don't know their status right now.

Thanks for everyone's input - a little lost.