Magingmagic, where'dja go??

[ericmsant2]

MM,

I am sorry, I am confused….on one hand you acknowledge that you are too close to the sitch (see below)

I am very much too close to my situation and therefore value an outsiders opinion.

While at the same token, you write that you need to “clarify”, the “real truth” so that you “could receive more accurate advice”. (see below)

I feel the need to clarify because I feel that if more of what is being judged has more of the real truth, then I could receive more accurate advice.... this is the ONLY reason that I clarify

[quote from MM]Your list of characteristics are your opinion and are not fully accurate, if we are going to review, let's be accurate & honest:[/quote]

Then it appears as if, you begin to rethink your previous comments…about the accuracy of the advice (see below)

was preparing myself to settle in to re-read my posts to review from an unbiased opinion.

Maybe I am wrong, who knows. I am not sure that I can help you and for that I apologize. If your expectation is to receive advice that just supports what it is that you have already decided to do, then IMO, that is not advice that you are looking for - it is validation of the choice that YOU have already made, which is fine.

What I also found was that a few opinions were posted that were not fact based and the other readers were misinformed & it steam-rolled

Honestly, I found this quote quite offensive. I do respect that this is how you feel though.

from Matt……"What offends is that you aren't able to understand that what YOU think is true may not be which is why you need advice in the first place. If you were looking at your sitch accurately you wouldn't need to ask for help at all."….and MM’s response <<<<< SO then, lets look at my sitch accurately!!!

“Look at your sitch accurately”. I am sorry that you feel that way. I can only base my response on what you write. The apostrophes’ at the end of your statement, felt to me as if you were screaming that no one has been looking at your sitch objectively. That IMO, is not the case and quite offensive.

Then you follow with this quote….toward someone who was no longer posting, that someone found to come back and hopefully try and help you….

"From my POV you say that you agree and understand and then you prove that you don't by continuing your same old actions and defending both them and your BF." <<< This is what lead me to want to re-read my posts... I do not intentionally want to defend my actions or his. I just feel the need to clarify sometimes.

You say you do not “intentionally want to defend my actions or his….yet you do. You claim that you want to “clarify” while at the same token you say you are too close to the sitch.

I find your rational, justification, explanations sad and offensive. I am not saying that you need to agree with people – nope. It is your choice to do with the advice what you feel like. It just feels to me, that you consistently tell everyone that they are wrong.

I was going to go back to your original post and create a timeline to show you what I see and what I think (assumption on my part) others see. I do not think that will help you.

If you are happy in your current sitch, then I honestly wish you well. I hope that whatever it is that you are trying to achieve that you achieve it. I really do. I am truly sorry that I was unable to help you. If I said anything to offend you I sincerely apologize.

Good luck.

[makingmagic]

I am sincerely sorry if I offended anyone... this was not my intention. I am not trying to make anyone wrong. I am sorry if my exclamation marks came off as screaming... this is not how I was feeling.

I do want to clarify, and YES... I am too close to the sitch. I admit, I am biased but there are some comments posted that are just not true & it may affect a readers next comment or opinion or affect the advice given/received.

There is a difference.

I want truths and facts to be presented.

Off the top of my head there are 4 things that were stated that were not fact.

1) that he is not offering a long term monogamous relationship & hasn't for 20 years
2) that he is not going to put my name or complete our business deal. That I will wait & wait & wait.
3) that he is not allowing me to have my money to buy a house
4) abusive relationship (this may have been stated based on the above statements)

.... ^^^^^ these are not how I feel, but fact.

I feel like the advice given for me is to add pressure/demand (because of 20 years and business) or to run far away from him.

When I have "agreed" with the posters, it is because I can see resemblances or truths to what they are trying to get me to see. However, this does not mean that I know how to handle the situation any better.

I do feel "hooked" by his statement that suggests: the grass isn't greener out there so lets be patient, we have a 20 year history & lets see how it goes...its only been a few weeks (since Aug actually). Don't push it and wreck it. Lets take the time to make sure its right. That I would have to invest and start brand new with someone new anyway. <<<<<< I do feel what he says is true, but it holds me in a standstill position. I can't see clearly.

My understanding is to view this as a NEW relationship. Not back to the old one because we both have changed.

If in a new relationship... time has to happen. You cannot just jump back into a full blown relationship again... Hence, 'piecing' and "take time", "do not rush, be patient" are plastered all over this website. <<<<< I understand THIS too!

I truly appreciate & admire Pearls wisdom & how she handled her situation. She did not want to wait & outlast the MLC. She eventually got b@lls and put her rel'p to the test. Like most others on here, I don't think I am quite capable of doing that... not fully, anyway.

I am not looking for validation (maybe at times, if I do something right)... I do want advice that can help me to get what I want/need in my relationship with him.

I appreciate all the comments/advice given. I hope to receive more.

Please understand that I may counter reply as to hopefully get/give a better understanding...it is not suggesting that someone is wrong, but maybe sometimes what I might add might change the advice given..... just maybe.

Hugs, MM

[Starsky309]

I for one am not offended, MM. I know you're doing the best you can and I do sincerely hope things work out for you.

No worries from me!!


Starsky

[ericmsant2]

MM,

First off I was thinking that maybe…just maybe…I was confusing your sitch with someone elses. I’m only human after all. So I went back and started to read your threads….My first observation is that amount of disagreeing you did/do with a lot of other posters. They respond to your post, you tell them you they are wrong, they point it out, you tell them you are wrong. The only poster that you do not disagree with are the ones that disagree with you.

That said…….

Off the top of my head there are 4 things that were stated that were not fact.

See below and my response….using YOUR words…none of the below is anything that I or any other poster said…these are all your quotes. Hopefully, you may be able to see why I posted what I see…..or the items on the list that you claim are false. I ran out of time, and only used your first few posts, if you think this will help, I’ll go through all of your MLC posts and show you the similar quotes from you. In all cases, these are YOURS words – not mine or no onese elses it is the only thing anyone here has to go on…..

1) that he is not offering a long term monogamous relationship & hasn't for 20 years

How do I not appear as "waiting"?

he says that maybe h just needs to come out from all the burden on his shoulders of our business situation

Monday's convo was also about I will not wait and didn't think he should either

20 years ago he asked me out... but it first took for me to have interest. Teach me the right incentive !!! PLEASE !!... He even expected me to be the only one to pursue even SEX!

I try hard to please him, its never good enough. I am afraid to displease him as he will... ?? never marry me?? Never want me?? Never be good enough??... all the above and more!

I know this isn't healthy, and I have no clue where/how to begin.

he would consider marrying me. So, I have been caving in to his requests/demands, etc....for that to happen. Pathetic eh?

Ok, not married because he is chicken? I was 26, he was 29. H is chicken of marriage, but assumed it would one day "just happen" or not... he's not a big fan of it, because his parents split after 25 years.

Years and years of pleading, leaving clues, many discussions... overlooked.

I am feeling worried that my h is possibly keeping me baited to continue in our business. Keeping the carrot dangling (reconcilliation).

knowing who my h is.. baiting & carrot dangling is what he does. I just am realizing that he may be doing this to me now too. Never saw it before

Yes, part of his sales tactics is to bait/keep on the hook (he did this for marriage

Again, he would not commit and does not want to be held accountable.

2) that he is not going to put my name or complete our business deal. That I will wait & wait & wait.

Several of my new friends say that he is cake eating as he knows I am "waiting" .... how do I stop "waiting"

He is sooo focused on the business turning around so that we can be in a better place financially

I will wait for him to place me back into his life... this is a NEW change for me.

So, I am on his schedule. This does not feel good.

I have been invested and keep investing in hopes of our reconcilliation. I am kind of bullied here and am on eggshells still trying to please him.

I don't think its a poor business decision, but it is a poor personal decision for me.. which is why I think its surfacing NOW.

His intentions are to pay me what the business owes me first (initial investment value). He insists on this. Then again, he wants to buy more inventory first. GEEZ.

He has suggested that due to our business needs that I come over (tonight) and we can work together on our product so that it can be ready sooner.

3) that he is not allowing me to have my money to buy a house

4) abusive relationship (this may have been stated based on the above statements) .

Below are YOUR quotes and what at least for me, led me to make non “factual” statements re: abusive and selfish behaviors/relationships. Based on the below….if you feel that I have misunderstood your quotes, of if you believe that the below quotes are not signs of an abusive R….I am not sure what is abusive.

He is a workaholic and would reprimand me for having a life.

My councellor even called me a doormat.

I normally cave to his calls/requests and eagerly jump to his needs.

as I have been a doormat for too long.

This is so unlike me to not be a doormat and be availabale to him and all his demands of me.

And I have been a doormat to his wants and needs for 20years. Every aspect of our rel'p I have catered to his needs from sex demands to how I do the dishes.

Thank you again Mr Bond for your reply... however, trust me, I was a DOORMAT (and still might be), and didn't realize I was being one.

As for not treating me well…… Things like high work expectations, not speaking pleasantly, not appreciating me, demanding of sex on his terms, not physical/affectionate towards me, not wanting to spend time with me anymore, etc. Never happy with me or what I was trying to do. Hard to please.

Yes, within our relationship he did treat me like a doormat & I allowed it. Not suggesting this is good, AT ALL.

It was not fun for me, and yes he was very controlling.

I have been and still am "CONTROLLED" by him

I wake up and have been living my life in fear of not pleasing him. This is not healthy.

He makes all the judgement and calls of when, how, where we do business. I JUMP!

which led to me being a doormat.

I find him selfish. Always has been.

He just dangles the "carrot" on my behaviour, and frowns upon my efforts. I try hard to please him, its never good enough. I am afraid to displease him as he will... ?? never marry me?? Never want me?? Never be good enough??... all the above and more!

I know this isn't healthy, and I have no clue where/how to begin.

I have been a puppet, therefore have not been detached.

let me also add, h is usually frustrated and this also makes its way to me

its this kind of stuff that keeps me on eggshells.

Yes, I am a doormat (I cater to his whims/demands and act based on his emotions).

HE IS EXTREMELY STUBBORN & selfish.

yes, I am afraid of doing the wrong thing... for years... because I was always told it was the wrong thing!

You also said over and over that you were piecing…interesting enough, you said this today….

You cannot just jump back into a full blown relationship again... Hence, 'piecing' and "take time", "do not rush, be patient" are plastered all over this website.

For the record…this is your X time piecing according to you (once again…I am using what YOU wrote)..see below..

please respond: is this piecing?

You eventually I THINK came to realize that you were not piecing but as usual…..just a few days later (after you agreed with people that you were not piecing)…

I am pretty sure this is the start to piecing, based on the 5 r convo's I have

Then interesting enough….you started a thread over in the piecing section of the boards, even though EVERY poster who posted to you said you were not in piecing.

[makingmagic]

Thank you for taking the time to write that. I wonder if there is a way to actually speak to you "live"... is there?

I am not trying to make you wrong... just accurate. I am really not disagreeing with you on ALL counts, just some. I do NOT want to come across as argumentative.

reading through this situation I think Magic has showed that she is capable of change. Changing direction and prioritizing our needs and wants is good. I would not want to be held to my thoughts and plans and words from a year ago. Nothing can be written in stone.

..... Most of what you posted was my thoughts and feelings and situation from over a year and a half ago. Both my Xbf & myself have grown and changed, including our situation.

For example (reviewing backwards) you are looking at my "piecing" statements from March 2013... as a newbie, I was desperate to think that I was in piecing like many others on this site. I didn't really understand what it was. I was just hopeful to be there based on lip service.

The example I was trying to give about "commitment/monogamous"... 1) was that HE is monogamous & faithful and has been for 20+ years, still & even since BD. I will agree that his level of commitment is not marriage. He still likes to be held within a committed type relationship. He is not a player & does not want to be a bachelor.

2) I will agree that I have been "waiting" for a very long time for my business deal to take place (8 years). When I first came to this site, I didn't even have an agreement in place... throughout this past year, a mediated agreement has been formed (movement).

3) "he is not allowing me to buy a house".... there was nothing to back this comment up.

4) abusive... Bond pointed out how I enabled some "doormat" behaviours, he has since come to respect me.

As mentioned, change & growth has happened.... these statements are old.

I am rushing out the door right now, but will review how I was feeling & see if any of this resonates to my feelings/sitch now. I have not fully read the "abuse" type comments... I am sure there are some truths still in there.

[job]

Magic,
This Board is set up to be anonymous for the posters for many reasons. We do not give out personal telephone numbers or email addresses on the Board. A long time ago we were allowed to do so until we had some stalkers and trolls posting here who became utter pests to posters, not only here, but in their personal lives. Since that time, we aren't allowed to share that information w/other posters. However, if you were to reach out to the posters, you may discover that there is a DB Facebook site that many use and that's how they communicate and meet up w/others. I may be wrong, but I think you need to be invited to join the group. Also, it is not a part of this Forum, but made up of many of the people who post here who want to chat off line in a different setting.

[makingmagic]

Tx Job... much appreciated.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Today/tonight... spent most of the day together under the guise of 'entertaining/casual work/drive' .... when discussed, he said that he chose to be more casual and include me along for the ride as opposed to doing it by himself. That he is taking the time to enjoy the day and not just be work, work, work attitude.

At one point, we had spare time and he jokingly said that we could fool around to kill the time.. I just laughed it off, suggesting that my standards were higher than fooling around in the car or at work. He offered more comfort back at the house. Again, not really taking him seriously.

On our way back to work, he suggested & offered to stop along our way back in the neighbourhood of where I could consider buying a commuter type house (possible good idea for DD starter home). We also grabbed coffee & he had picked up fresh cookies for us to have. He asked again if I was going to his dads T-giving. I said that I had given him the answer the other day. He didn't think I had. Said yes again & that I would like to bring my Mom's pumpkin pie. He said that he had already ordered (from the cookie place) 2 pumpkin pies. I was a little bugged because I really wanted my mom's pies instead of his store bought ones. He insisted that his were homemade too. I recommended that he cancel one & we each bring a pie. Not sure where this ended. He seemed pretty stuck on bringing his ordered pies!

Back at work, it was raining out. We sat in the car...He brought up & discussed how he wants to go soon to Miami and sit on the beach and go out for breaky, sit on the beach, go out for lunch, sit on the beach and then go out for dinner/night life. To leave everything else behind and relax. We discussed previous other fun vacations as well. He waited for me to finish my coffee (much later), and then he got into work mode. Our client arrived and we closed the deal (YAY). While client was gone to the bank, he asked if I wanted to come back to the house to get the vehicle that was there and drive that for the night, I was busy writing the deal and didn't answer... A little while later he asked again... I joked " is that your way to asking if I want to make out or hang out?" ... he clarified that he would like to hang out and go for pizza & beer locally after the client leaves. After the client left, he asked again "so, do you want to have a beer... or..??". I said "I'd actually like a glass of wine", and we then closed up shop & went to the restaurant.. for a light bite & drink. We had small talk, a lot of silence. I brought up his parents relationship & how I think he fears his parents getting too close & his fears of mom wrecking it for them. He prefers that they just be companions. And that they don't have to label it. (he has used that "label" term with me recently too.. I don't like it much, however he referred about living/sleeping together as a difference). I didn't persist the point. I pointed out that the less he does for his mom, how that opens up an opportunity for his dad to step in. He nodded. I think he thinks of ways of how his parents could live together somehow again... if mom wasn't such a pack rat.

The vehicle I was going to drive was back at his place. When we arrived he got it ready & started it for me. As much as I wanted him to invite me in, I guess that was my clue to leave & not linger... He came over to hug. It was a friendly type hug.. not very satisfying... I reached up to give him a more passionate kiss. He kissed back, but stated that after a meal he is not usually in a sexual mood. <<<< WHAT? ok...whatever. I know that if I had asked or commented that I was in "the mood" that he would deliver... but, at least this way I feel at ease that he doesn't appear to be using me for sex. I walked to my car.

I struggled in my head with this one... and went back because I wanted to know "if" I was in the mood would he have delivered?... When I started the convo, a voice in my head said STFU... so, I did.. I found an excuse to finish what I started and then said good bye. (180)

[ericmsant2]

I wonder if there is a way to actually speak to you "live"... is there?

Job is correct in that many people would like to remain anonymous, especially for the reasons Job mentions. That said, I am pretty open dude - if you want to reach me

Sharing contact information is not allowed on this site.

Just remember...this is not about being right or wrong.

You mentioned that other posters agree with your approach. My approach may be a bit different....it is based on trying to get you to a healthy place in yourself and in your R - be it with your BF or with someone else.

When I first came here...I did not KNOW how to have a healthy R. The advice was more geared toward "saving my relationship". I firmly believe in Marriage and in committed relationships. I just believe that they require two people who are BOTH healthy.

So although others may say...yeah do this or do that...you should ask yourself...how healthy is the R that they are in now. That is not criticizing anyone...it is my opinion.

so now you know how to contact me.

I'll close with this....

I'm not here to be your friend, I'm not here to just make you feel better, I'm here because I believe in the DB principals and if I can help someone, then great. So if you want so one to always validate you, to never point out things that you may not see or choose not to see...then I am the wrong guy to talk to.

Case in point.....the "old times" who posted to me KNEW that bullchit I was telling myself. They never let up, the never let me skate by. They pushed...they challenged and for that...I will be forever grateful.

I hope you come to that say place.... a place of peace...a place of realizing what is healthy and what is not. For example....

You have convinced yourself that you were too "pushy" so now...you have gone the complete opposite. Your BF drives everything. You really just react to what he says and does MOST of the time. What I hope you come to realize is that believe it or not...it is not healthy. An R requires two people. It requires work on both sides. You have needs and wants and so does he. Giving up your needs and wants....IMO, not good. The same can be said for him. Finding the balance is the hard part, the balance though should not be....MM doing what he says or MM using tricks and tactics to get him back. Think about it...is that you being YOUR authentic self? Is that you being MM? IMO, NO - it is you being the MM that HE wants and that is not healthy.

You know where to reach me.

[makingmagic]

Thanks Eric...

On occasion it would be helpful to have someone validate what I am doing right for me/him or my relationship. I am scrambling to know what I am doing right. With that said, I really really do want to be called on the BS I tell myself at times.

I know that I come across as argumentative and it comes across as I am trying to make someone else wrong... this is not the case. Promise. I just really feel that if someone knew more information that they might have a different opinion. So, when I do this I am not against being wrong or informed of what outsiders see... I just feel that if they knew more of the story, they might change their opinion, as well. As for me, I do consider what is being suggested, even if I don't like it.

I do want a healthy relationship... Yes, I want him back but not at the cost of losing myself again. I am working on defining what my needs/wants are. Trying to figure out what is my line in the sand (I keep moving it). I know that my needs/wants include KNOWING that he wants me. To figure this out.. I need to step back and allow the space for him to come forward. I chased and was pushy during our relationship, I don't want to do that again. It was my growth that tells me that I need to go opposite... however, I see that you are suggesting that there can still be a balance. To not give in to whatever HE wants only.... I want to see him make efforts and do some jumping for me. I do not want to indulge in the "carrot/bait/hook" game again. I want to be assured of what he does want.... (hoping he realizes that its me).

I will not give up my needs & wants. Right now, I NEED to see his efforts come forth & NEED to spend time re-building. I also NEED to be independent (as uncomfy as this makes me feel). I need to know he loves me and wants to be with me. I also need to be sure that he is not just taking me off the shelf on his whims just to put me back on it when he is done. I want to know how to know the difference.

The thing is too... is that he is admitting that HE is changing. He feels that he is appreciating me, he feels he is making the right efforts for his lifestyle, and he feels he is including me. .... To me, this is good... for him. It just hasn't quite translated to me as much as I want/need... just yet.

I do want gentle pushes, and nudges.... I ask that whoever tries and continues to be on my team, to understand that I will likely challenge it back, but to KNOW that its not to make them wrong. Its just a position I take hoping that my rebuttal will make a difference to the advice. I will watch for this as well.

Thanks Eric & everyone else.

MM

[ericmsant2]

MM

So now you know how to contact me…

I just really feel that if someone knew more information that they might have a different opinion.

If by your own admission you may not be able to see something…..can you see how trying to provide “more information” could be viewed as you really still not being able to see something? Think about it….if you read your threads…you might see that more than not…everyone is saying the same thing.

I do want a healthy relationship... Yes, I want him back but not at the cost of losing myself again.

Would you say that you know what a healthy relationship looks like? If so, describe it.

I am working on defining what my needs/wants are.

So you are working on defining YOUR needs. Right? See below…

I know that my needs/wants include KNOWING that he wants me.

Notice…YOUR need is for something that YOU have NO CONTROL OVER. Really, what you are saying is you want HIM to be what YOU want HIM to be and NOT what he is.

I need to step back and allow the space for him to come forward.

Is that what YOU think a healthy R is? Notice…YOUR NEED is tied to HIS ACTION.

I want to see him make efforts and do some jumping for me.

Once again…you want HIM….the above statement is not about YOU or YOUR dreams at all. Also, how can he jump unless you give him a LOT OF TIME (i.e. more than a day, week or even a month) to miss you.

I do not want to indulge in the "carrot/bait/hook" game again.

THEN DON’T! Yet when you post it comes across as a cat and mouse game. Ohhh…I’ll do this in the hopes that he does that OR if I don’t do this…then maybe he will do that”. This is a tactic.

I NEED to see his efforts come forth & NEED to spend time re-building.

Once again…your goals (excluding buying a house) are all based on HIM. What “he does”…I “want him to”….”that he”. All about him and not much about what MM wants for herself – ASIDE from HIM. FTR, you are your own person – aside from him. You are your own women – aside from him. Who is that person MM? Who is MM away from her BF?

I need to know he loves me and wants to be with me.

NEED vs. WANT. You see you do NOT NEED him…you WANT him – big difference. I suspect though…that you really do “feel” like you “NEED” him and there is the problem.

I also need to be sure that he is not just taking me off the shelf on his whims just to put me back on it when he is done.

What is “sure” in life MM? If he says he is sure today and then changes his mind tomorrow – are you in any different place then where you are today? Psst…notice again…”he”….that he….when he…

I want to know how to know the difference.

YOU THINK You do…but you really do not. Everyone has told you the difference. For example…. If I LOVED my partner with everything in me…and I wanted her to be happy and to feel secure…then I would run to the L and legally split the company giving her half. I would NOT procrastinate. FTR, if something is that IMPORTANT – YOU DO NOT WAIT. Really, IMO, you just want HIM back. Period.

is that he is admitting that HE is changing.

ACTIONS speak louder than words.

He feels that he is appreciating me, he feels he is making the right efforts for his lifestyle, and he feels he is including me

Ummm….He , he, he , he, he…. For HIS lifestyle. Lemme rewrite that, if I was sitting in your shoes.


He feels that he is appreciating me, yet the most important things that I (capital I) want he is not giving me. He feels like he is making the right effort and although I may not agree perse…his right effort is not enough for ME (capital me). I know I deserve more. I have given him everything I could. As I write this…I just realized that everything is about HIM and his needs – I want a lifestyle too. Ya know what….I think I’m gonna live my lifestyle and maybe….I “include” him – not the other way around.

I do want gentle pushes, and nudges

Okay here is a gentle push…..

Get your share of the business before he changes his freaking mind again. Go buy your house or go on a kick arse vacation. Sit down and write down goals for YOURSELF that do not involve him. Go find YOURSELF…who MM is….when the lights are off, when her kids are out of the house…when bf drops dead, is working or leaves ya…who the heck is MM? I still do not know and I suspect you do not either.

Then again….you could always wait and ask BF what HE thinks YOU should be.

It is time MM….