My story is like so many I have read about on the site, so I will spare details (see signature below). briefly, it is a WAW MLC scenario. She has served me dissolution papers. W is still seeing OM. We are still in same bedroom, but separate beds. Almost no communication between us. My older children know that something is very wrong. After I found out about my W's A, I made all the classic mistakes. Now, I am now working on myself, going dark, spending more time with my children. I have spoken to a DB coach. It is hard to GAL because I have invested so much time in my children and W in the past, that I don't have much of a social life outside my home. I have started running and getting into shape and I like my new bod, but how much can I exercise??
I need some emotional support and I have some questions. I am having a lot of difficulty with maintaining PMA when I think about what W is doing to her children. Like all MLCers, she thinks she is a great mother and the younger ones are clinging to her even closer. I do not want OM around my children and W does not want to leave her children. My ILs are encouraging and emboldening my W further.
I have been very slow in submitting papers to my attorney so as not to push forward with D - as suggested by DB coach. My children are beginning to act out due to fear of the unknown. they are also scared and confused by my mood. I value M as an institution, but I do not see how I can stay married to W. I already fantasize about dating and meeting someone else, but I (and my children) am mired in this awful purgatory. When do I give up?
Jesus that is a question I ask myself all the time. I am only a little over a month into it and the answer to that question changes every 5 minutes it seems.
I wish I had something better to say to you, hang in there
Me 34 W 30 T 13 M 8 BD 7/27/14 EA Confirmed 8/6/14 S 8/2/14 D Imminent
I quote the immortal words of Socrates who said "...I drank what?"
Hi, RAI. I'm so sorry you're here. No one deserves this.
With regards to the kids, I'll tell you what I learned from a friend who went through this as a child. He said, he could tolerate a LOT more if he knew from his parents what was going on. Even if it's bad, knowing that HE was going to be taken care of was the thing he worried most about. So in the short term, if you can keep reassuring your kids that no matter what they are loved and will be cared for, you will do a lot to defuse their anxiety.
You're going to have to drop your judgment of whether or not your W is a good mom. I can understand that her behavior is causing chaos in the family and that is kind of a bottom line area, but thinking of her as a terrible, destructive mother will NOT help you or your kids cope. The best thing for all of you is to drop that whole line of thinking and at least act as if. Most likely she's thinking very erratically and doing the best she can.
When do you give up? That's up to you. Do you want to save the marriage? If you do, this is going to be a LONG haul. Marathon, not a sprint. The thing is, if you don't, it's still going to be a marathon, because you have very young children and you are going to be stuck with one another for many years.
Your DB coach is the primary authority in your situation because s/he is the one who knows more of the details, etc. But to your W, it probably would at least improve your ability to co-parent if you were able to give in a little. Agree to the dissolution (don't hurry your attorney... just stop arguing against it if you have been). Try to improve your communications with one another for the SOLE purpose of co-parenting more effectively so the kids can relax and feel more secure. Do not talk about the relationship or OM. Don't worry about your in-laws. You can't do anything about them anyway. (Believe me, I know that's HARD, I have a grievance with my MIL myself, but it's not productive to worry about them.)
With regard to GAL, keep an eye out in your local paper for different things you can take an interest in, including stuff you can do with one or two of your kids at a time. Your social circle will grow over time, especially if you start participating in school or church functions, etc. It may take some time to grow a new set of habits but it will give you something really positive to focus on as you go through this awful experience.
This isn't going to be easy, fun, or fast, but it can be an opportunity for enormous growth if you give it the chance.
Do you have an idea of what her complaints pre-A were? Maybe list them in your next post or two.
Best to you, RAI. Nobody deserves this, but it's up to you what you make of it.
Last edited by Cristy; 09/09/1410:25 PM.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
Detach and protect yourself. My sitch is similar to yours. As long as she is in the home have a PMA and work on those 180s for you. It is very difficult to GAL, go dark, and detach when she is at home and there are children involved. Remember that what you feel today is not what you will feel tomorrow. Don't make a rash decision you will regret later.
I'm sorry you are in this situation, and wish you the best.
Only you can know when it's time to call it quits.
M42 W40 T17 M15 S13 S11 BD 7-14 A discovered 7-14 WAW moved out 10-3-14 D final 2-23-15
Looks like I cross-posted with Maybell (who has some super advice), but here's my post anyway:
You say that you don't see how you can stay with W and then ask when you should give up. Those are contradictory questions to me.
You need to ask yourself: are you willing to work on your relationship and your marriage? Nothing's going to happen with OM in the picture, so I'm afraid it's a waiting game. Are you up for that?
What most people do is make it clear to their walk away spouse that they want to fix things, but they won't have anything to do with it until the other person is out of the picture.
Then, regardless of the situation and the details, they start by getting a life (GAL). Find things to do with yourself and your kids so that you're not focused on W. Make it about you and improving your life so that even if the R can't be saved, you're strong and worked through your crap emotionally and mentally and are prepared to move on with or with out your spouse.
Check out the thread with Sandi2's 180s for changing your behavior, in order to change the bad habits and ruts we all get into. Honestly consider your R and what went wrong, the part you played, and how you can change yourself for the better.
Hold strong!
Last edited by Two Sided Coin; 09/09/1403:17 PM.
BF:40 M:33 SD: 12 T: 8, never married, no kids together BD: 8/4, "I'm just done", "...too tired and burnt to try". PA confirmed 8/5 "It happened, but it's been over for almost a year".
Everyone! Thanks for the encouragement and valuable advice.
Maybell, I looked at your signature and noticed that the timing of events in our lives is similar, i.e. our ages, kids ages, length of M, even the date of D-day are similar, yet you seem to be much more together and empowered. Kudos to you. That was just an observation from which perhaps I can draw strength.
As far as complaints pre-A, she did not have many. Intimacy was good and pretty regular, I would tell her how attractive she is, she had time to start her own business, we tried to do date-night weekly, I still bought her flowers on occasion, we did not fight/argue seriously, I never told her how to spend our money, I adored her and championed her to everyone. Occasionally, she would complain that I am not home enough in the evenings and that she could never go out or have time to herself. I would always counter that she could go out any time, but she had difficulty leaving our youngest S. I used to joke that she had separation anxiety.
After D-day she said, in retrospect, that she did not have her own voice, that she adopted all of my convictions (vis a vis religion, parenting, values, etc…), that I was too controlling, and that I was not "there" enough for her. Initially I signed on to the theories she concocted, blamed myself, and even apologized for it. In response, I relinquished all control - giving her free reign, came home an hour earlier daily, gave up some commitments (e.g. bible study) and forgave her. She responded with disdain and by asking that we separate. A few weeks later I caught her with OP for the second time. I think she needed to find fault with me in order to justify her actions. Obviously there was a flaw in the relationship and, in retrospect, I would tend to get my way more often than she, but I really did not perceive any red flags nor did she raise any until after the A was disclosed.
I actually read a post on DB called MLC for dummies (or something to that effect). The resemblance to my W was uncanny. Her behavior matched the behavior of someone in MLC perfectly. It's like I went to bed with my W and woke up with a total stranger.
Can you tell us more about this A? When it started, who the OM is or how she met him, how you found out, etc.? Had she expressed unhappiness in recent years or months?
Was she a SAHM?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
My W and I were good friends with this couple. We spent a lot of time together over the last 5 years. He works outdoors and he can be around our house during the day whenever he wants, while I am stuck at work. He was also doing some renovation work on our house. He would stop by my house daily for years, but I trusted my W as much as I trusted myself. It sounds sickening, but in one of the emails I eventually discovered, my W referred to him as a "brother-husband".
W is a SAHM. He had said inappropriate things to her in the past and she told me about it, further lulling me into a false sense of security. He was having problems with his M. I suggested MC, but he began confiding in my W instead.
About 2 months before D-day #1 (8/2013 - on our anniversary) he texted her about his "dreams" and she took the bait. Thus began EA. It became physical (oral sex), and they were about to consummate when his W found out. My W initially told me he tried to kiss her, but then I found emails proving it was mutual, followed by weeks of trickle truth.
Months of IC and MC. MC was very passive and just kept asking me to love on her. I have no idea what her IC did. She never showed much remorse and less interest in helping me heal. She became ambivalent about the R after about 4 months. Eventually she stopped telling me she loves me, and we stopped being intimate. It seems like it took me too long to forgive her. MC never encouraged her to work on M. I don't know when she reestablished contact with OM or if she ever really truly broke contact with him in the first place. He is in the process of D.
When W insisted on separation even after I had made drastic sweeping changes to myself (see book "the Garden of Peace" by Shalom Arush, for example), I knew she still had not sealed all the exits in our R. A few weeks later (7/2014) I caught her leaving his house - crouched in the back seat of his car.
I know it unusual, but there really was no unhappiness leading up to the affair. We had a great 2 week family trip right before D-day and it was amazing. I acknowledge that I was more dominant and got my way more often than she did, and she never asserted herself. I also acknowledge that I was unbending when it came to parenting and religious matters.
I have not read DB or DR book yet. My plate is quite full and I am doing my best to prioritize my life right now.
As to the assertion that I "glossed over [my] problems and haven't take responsibility for [my] side of things", I am not sure on what you are basing this. Please elaborate if you think that taking more responsibility for my "side of things" will help my current sitch.
Maybe I am too new at this, but responsibility for what? For my W's MLC? For the flaws in OR that led to the A? For her inability to assert herself? For not being jealous enough when this guy was around? for not forgiving her sooner after the A?
Please explain to me (in detail) how it will help my current sitch. I am not understanding how it will help. If I take more responsibility for my role in A, then....
Read the books. It seems like you want the quick version spoon fed to you from us. You won't be able to succeed unless you actually put in some effort.
No matter how busy you are, is what you're doing more important than saving your M which is supposed to be for LIFE?
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
I read DR. I am waiting for DB. I am trying to incorporate all the ideas into my life, but it is not automatic. I am being more civil with my W. I am working on myself. I am spending more time with the children. I am working on my PMA. I am not sure what to make of the email I received from my W.
"I am completely embarrassed that I can't come up with the nerve to look you in the eye and apologize for all the hurt, pain and devastation I have caused you. Yes that makes me a complete coward. I know that what I did and have been doing to you is unforgivable but I just want to tell you how unbelievably sorry I am. You said last night in the car that some times people don't see the gem they have right in front of them and in my case that is so true. You are a gem and I destroyed the sparkling marriage with my constant mistakes. I am sorry. I truly am. I don't deserve your forgiveness and that is what I will carry with me for the rest of my life but I do need you to know that I am so sorry and I truly loved you with my heart and soul. I know that doesn't make sense to you because you are complete but I never want you to believe that I didn't love you. I am trying to figure out who I am Like XXXX XXXXXX said we need to find out who we really are. I am so sorry for the pain I cause you during this process. I went about things the wrong way. I am so sorry. I can go on for pages but I will be happy knowing you read this much."
Although there is much more that I wanted to say in reply, I responded that "I appreciate you sincere effort to apologize and I am sorry this is hard for you." the problem is that although she says she is sorry, she is continuing the same behavior (the A). This makes for a very shallow apology.
Please see my post from 15 minutes ago. But, I have another long-winded question.
It take time to internalize all the DB wisdom. This wisdom dictates how I should respond in a given situation. In the absence of wisdom, I do not get any real-time advice. I don't want to make a mistake. I have made so many in the process already.
My W has already served me dissolution papers and really wants to proceed with D mediation. I told her I would proceed. She already thinks I am dragging my feet. I need to email the mediator and my W to tell them I am ready to start mediation. I do not know what to write. I do not want to make it look like I am asking for the divorce. Any suggestions?
Has anyone seen my last two posts? I have not seen any replies. I feel quite alone. I know everyone has lives and other commitments, but any support or input would be appreciated.
I feel like everything I have done in the past year has been a mistake and further worsened the R. I am tired of making mistakes and I want to do things the DB way. My next coaching session is not until Thursday and I am not sure how to proceed.
RAI, you've been in moderation so likely nobody has seen your posts. I'm sorry about that. Please keep posting, and check out other people's threads, that's the best way to get people to comment on yours.
WRT to emailing the mediator and your W, have you done that yet? What did you say?
It's hard to give input without details about what you're looking for advice on. Follow what's in the book. Know that you WILL make more mistakes and forgive yourself for that, just commit to continually doing better and ultimately you will.
Your sitch is very recent and I'm sure it's stopped you dead in your tracks. You are in good company here. Keep posting. I'll keep an eye out for you.
Hugs.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
what does that mean "to be in moderation"? did I write something improper or controversial? How long will my posts remain in moderation? Sorry, I am just not BB savvy.
I don't know how long I will be in moderation and I feel like I am posting to a wall, but I am going to continue posting with the hope that I will eventually get a response.
When I last spoke to DB coach about a week ago, I was advised to ask my W again if she still wants to proceed with mediation and D. W was very taken aback by the question. A few days later she said we should make an appt. I told her I would proceed and I emailed the mediator. I firmly stated to W that I do not feel D is the right thing to do.
Now that I have agreed to WAWs demand that we proceed with mediation, I am not sure how to gauge what she is thinking. If you read my previous posts, she seems to have some regret for hurting me. She may even regret the current course of action (towards D), but I don't know. Is she is thinking about changing her current course of action? Things are a bit more civil in the home, and I get a sense that she would like to communicate more but does not know how. It could also be wishful thinking. Since I stopped checking the odometer on my car and I am suppressing my paranoia, I don't know if she is still seeing OP. Perhaps she is experiencing confusion and I do not know it. Perhaps she is distancing herself from him? Again, I have no clue. I do not know how to communicate with her anymore. I worry that she thinks herself unworthy of me now and feels forced to proceed down the path towards D.
meanwhile, the mediator is emailing us to make sure we received his emails, asking why we have not yet fixed a date/time for our first appointment. I don't know if I should reply. I do not want to be perceived as dragging my feet, but I also don't want to push the process forward. This is her decision, let her plan it.
To add to my confusion, she just emailed me the following: "I deposited $800 in our bank account today. It is from my business. Have a good day. Thank you for making the girls weekend so much fun." (edited for anonymity) I have no clue whether or how to reply.
My indecision and uncertainty regarding what is going on in her head is causing me not to answer anything which could make things worse. I continue to work on myself, but I feel like we are growing still more distant (if that is possible).
Is there anyone with experience who can help me with next steps.
RAI,
P.S. Please tell me if I should re-post elsewhere. I feel like my thread is dead.
what does that mean "to be in moderation"? did I write something improper or controversial? How long will my posts remain in moderation? Sorry, I am just not BB savvy.
RAI
No, you didn't do anything wrong. Moderation just means that your first few posts have to be approved by a moderator. It happens to everyone. Just keep posting.
I'm not an expert, but just in the interests of throwing something out there (vets may have a better suggestion), I would respond to the mediator like so, ccing your W:
Thank you for following up. I'm going to leave the communications in W's hands since she has the more demanding schedule.
And then back off. If she wants to pursue it, she can, if she wants to let it drop then she can communicate that herself.
And WRT the email you quoted above, it is always good to be polite and responsive. Thanking her is not a distancing action.
Keep posting more details about the problems in your M, you'll be out of moderation soon. Responding to other people's threads also will shorten the time needed to get out of moderation.
Hang in there!
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
After I found out about the A, I started to watch our joint bank account. I noticed that W was making small withdrawals that added up to $1800 over a two month period. This was not typical of her because she has a checkbook and credit cards, so there was no need to withdraw such a large amount of cash. I never limited her spending before. I confronted her and she said she would return the cash. She returned about $1500. I don't know and won't speculate on what she was going to do with the money, but I decided to move my money into a separate account and just feed money into our joint account as needed. My attorney supported this plan.
Now I find myself in an unusual situation. I don't know what to do when the balance in her account gets low. She spent $180 at a fancy shoe store. Do I need to "reimburse" her for it? She spent $675 on her annual life insurance premium. Do I need to add that amount back into our joint account? There are other examples, but you get the picture. Today, for the first time, she deposited $800 into the joint account - from her small home business.
We are still married, but to what extent do I have to provide for her? at what point does it become cake-eating? She is worried about the expense of the divorce, but has not qualms about spending on fancy up-to-the-knee boots. Ugg. (pun intended)
I am still early in the DB process. But I wanted to know what is the general approach to involvement of the OM in the children's lives.
To elaborate, my W's A partner was a good friend of ours. He and his STBXW were at our house all the time. Our children played together. We still see him at community events all the time. My kids still occasionally ask why they can't have play dates with his kids. My kids still say hi to him when they see him. To my knowledge, my wife is keeping her A activity and OM separate from the children. I do not think she is actively trying to bring him back into their lives, but I can't be certain. I obviously don't want him around us at all. He seduced my wife and destroyed two families in the process. Even his STBXW wants to be friends with my W again - no clue why - must be needy. I would be willing to move, just so I would never have to see his ugly face again. of course, my wife is suddenly in love with our town and would be unwilling to move.
I don't mind if my W wants to continue seeing him or even marry him - that's her mistake to make. I am working on myself and preparing for the likely D that is coming. But I don't want him or his family involved in my children's lives in any way. One reason is because I don't want him influencing my children in any way - he has already proven himself to be a manipulative liar. Another reason, admittedly, is because I would be terrified at the thought of my children being buddies with him.
Is there any way that I can set a boundary to protect my kids from his vile influence. Can I specify in the mediation process that I don't want him near my children? Do I have to just accept that my W wants to be with this sleaze and let the chips fall where they may? I have told my wife that I do not want him around the children. I have no idea if she is complying. Are there any threads or comprehensive posts on this topic?
Sorry about all of this. You might be able to specify this in a mediation agreement - but your W would have to be on board.
I know this is a bitter, bitter pill to swallow, but unless there is some sort of active criminal behavior going on, most states don't care about this. You won't be able to keep him away from them if your wife is determined to have him in their lives (there might be exceptions- you can always consult with an atty)
Maybe some others have managed to set some effective boundaries around this, and if they have, I hope they chime in.
I wish I had better feedback for you. My STBX moved directly in with the OW and immediately exposed the kids to her. There's nothing I can do about it.
RAI, You might want to start a thread over on the MLC Forum and link this thread to it.
My first question to you is this...what, if anything transpired 18-24 months prior to her changes in personality?
The "light switch" doesn't switch off automatically, i.e, the crisis is phased in slowly, but surely until one day they "pop".
You must remember, you didn't break her, therefore you can't fix her. The only person you can fix is yourself. Are there things in your life that need to be looked at? Are there things that you can change about yourself that you will be happy with? Do you have a list of hobbies or a "to do list" that's been shelved for a long period of time? If so, get that list out and start working on it.
The last piece of advice...keep the focus on you and your life.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thanks for the reply. I am sorry your STBX behaves that way.
It is indeed a bitter, bitter pill to swallow, but if other DBers are surviving it, then I hope I can as well. I don't even know if it will happen: so far, OMs involvement in my kids' lives is only theoretical. It is just one of my biggest fears and insecurities. OM is shallow and never seemed to like children - not even his own. I don't know what my W sees in him. I can always hope that my bright children will eventually see through his facade. I do not think he is interested in my W in the long term anyway. I certainly do not think he would be interested in taking care of five children - in addition to his four.
As far as criminal behavior, he has buzzed by me in his car a few times when I was out running, but I do not have any evidence supporting this. I have recorded the dates, times and circumstances in my journal, and if he does it again, I will call the police and tell them. I know LBS tends to falsely ascribe supernatural powers to OM, but I really do think he is wicked. I have reached out to my atty to see if they can do a criminal background check.
Quote:
Maybe some others have managed to set some effective boundaries around this, and if they have, I hope they chime in.
others, please please please chime in. Especially if you have strategies for 1) setting boundaries, and 2) overcoming the fear of competition from a potentially hostile OP.
Thanks again RAI
P.S. What does "dropped the rope" in your signature line mean?
As far as what preceded her change in personality, I never thought about it before now. But now that you mention it, our youngest S was born almost exactly 24 months before D-day #1. He was an unplanned pregnancy - and not our first unplanned pregnancy - and my wife was very upset each and every time. I would always shrug off her complaints, saying that it takes two to tango and that we were both responsible for the pregnancies. We BOTH got lost in the heat of the moment. She does not like being pregnant and does not like the infant stage. I also guilted her into breast-feeding even though she always hated breast feeding. I discouraged her from using birth control for religious reasons. I always wanted more children that she did. I think to a certain degree she felt like a baby-making machine and (appropriately) blamed me for it. Eventually she had an IUD placed. I also did not let our children watch television, further increasing her childcare duties. I have no doubt that this was a difficult time in her life. May I speculate that she felt completely out of control? I was not home a lot during those years either, due to my job. Man, I feel like the worst H in the world.
This is a completely novel insight for me. I never thought about it until just now. Perhaps S5 was the straw that broke the camels back. I think I am starting to see my role in this. what's next? What do I do with this insight/information? Someone, please help me along.
I want to help you, but when I was in your wife's position all that I wanted was for my H to be really present, helpful, and involved. And I didn't hate pregnancy and enjoyed breastfeeding. My H had no opinion on the kids' television watching. And to throw in the BC stuff?
I don't know what to tell you, but I hope you somehow communicate some BIG changes to her consistently over time along with a tremendous amount of respect and appreciation. I know what my resentment baggage felt like. I'd guess hers was at least double.
Sorry you're hurting, I wish I had more solid advice. I hope you really have started seeing things with more empathy.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
Maybell, thanks for your insight. You do make it sound like a lost cause.
Ugggh... I know I am going to get a whopping 2x4 for this, but I am trying to make sense of this. So I am putting it out there.
I did not force my wife to do anything. She could have gone out and had an IUD placed any time - she did it eventually anyway. She could have let the kids watch television despite my objections. She tried bottle feeding and even pumping, it just did not work for her. The kids did not take the bottle. Perhaps she was afraid of what I would think?
I was present and I did/do a lot of parenting - despite completing a residency and fellowship (I am a physician). I toilet trained the children, I taught them to swim, I taught them to ride bikes, I taught them to sleep through the night in their own beds. I was the main disciplinarian. Despite this, her perception, formulated after the fact, is that I was not present. Her perception is obviously more important than all of that.
I did try to change and give her 100% leeway in parenting and I was met with more resentment. Now she has 100% leeway and is proceeding with D. How can I show empathy to her now, after what she has done. All the kids are in school in the morning. She has her whole AM and evenings free now. I am coming home 1 hour earlier. I am doing more, but I have a hard time with the empathy.
She is non-confrontational. She could have told me she was dissatisfied. Why did she never say anything? Why did she not tell me she was dissatisfied? Why was she so passive, until she walked?
Anecdote: I had an IUD placed. It slipped and I got pregnant anyway.
Life is life and s*&^ happens, despite best efforts. It's how you deal with it that matters.
You have sympathy for her because she's a human being and someone you love. You don't have to like or agree with the things she's done, but you do have to try to see it from her perspective. If you want to be with her, you need to love her anyway and forgive. It only hurts you if you can't get there.
ME: 38 BF: 40 T: 10y, no kids, no M (by choice) BD: 7/14/14, BF admits to PA, wants out, lies about new R. 10/1/14: I move out, BF lies about move in with OW 12/4/14: OW confronted, reveals all the lies
He was an unplanned pregnancy - and not our first unplanned pregnancy - and my wife was very upset each and every time. I would always shrug off her complaints, saying that it takes two to tango and that we were both responsible for the pregnancies. We BOTH got lost in the heat of the moment. She does not like being pregnant and does not like the infant stage. I also guilted her into breast-feeding even though she always hated breast feeding. I discouraged her from using birth control for religious reasons. I always wanted more children that she did. I think to a certain degree she felt like a baby-making machine and (appropriately) blamed me for it. Eventually she had an IUD placed. I also did not let our children watch television, further increasing her childcare duties. I have no doubt that this was a difficult time in her life. May I speculate that she felt completely out of control? I was not home a lot during those years either, due to my job. Man, I feel like the worst H in the world.
Originally Posted By: RAI
I did not force my wife to do anything. She could have gone out and had an IUD placed any time - she did it eventually anyway. She could have let the kids watch television despite my objections. She tried bottle feeding and even pumping, it just did not work for her. The kids did not take the bottle. Perhaps she was afraid of what I would think?
She is non-confrontational. She could have told me she was dissatisfied. Why did she never say anything? Why did she not tell me she was dissatisfied? Why was she so passive, until she walked?
RAI, seriously, can you not see this? You can't have it both ways. You can't say that you "did not let" your children watch tv and then blame her for not going behind your back. She was trying to be a good W, you just made it really hard.
Why didn't she say something? Did you actually listen? You use phrases like "shrug off her complaints" and "guilted her into" things. Were you actually trying to understand her side?
You have sympathy for her because she's a human being and someone you love. You don't have to like or agree with the things she's done, but you do have to try to see it from her perspective. If you want to be with her, you need to love her anyway and forgive. It only hurts you if you can't get there.
Little, I am trying to see it from her perspective. The part I am struggling with is that she made terrible choices. She chose to go outside the M. How could someone choose that? If your H is selfish and controlling, you go for counselling, no? you don't just walk out on the marriage. 5 months ago, I wrote her a very long letter outlining the errors of my ways. I debated posting the whole letter, but it is really long. If anyone thinks it is helpful, I can post the whole thing. In a nutshell, I admitted to a laundry list of offenses ranging from spending too much time at work, to putting others ahead of her, to being overly critical, to handicapping her ability to parent by refusing television, etc.... I ended the letter with the following:
It is now clear to me that I have not been giving you what you need for so long. I am so sorry that it took me so long to realize how terrible and cruel I have been. I cannot take back any of these sins. The only thing I can do is beg sincerely for your forgiveness, pledge to take actions that will prevent me from ever hurting you again, and vow to put your first in my life for ever and ever. I sincerely hope and pray that it is not too late.
I admitted my mistakes, I tried to forgive her, and I tried to make durable changes (before I found DB and DR). She still wanted to D. Two weeks later I caught her with OM for the second time. She is now choosing to divorce me. She is choosing OM over me. How do I turn off my own resentment towards her for her choices? How can I love her? How can I come home every day and smile at her? How vulnerable can I make myself?
rppfl, I now know my shortcomings as a husband. I was emotionally abusive without raising my voice or my hand. If I could do it again, I would have done it differently. I would have deferred to her in issues of child rearing, prioritized her over my work, suppressed my effusive criticism and replaced it with more praise, and chose her happiness over my self-righteousness. I get it. I was a terrible self-absorbed husband. I did not hear her concerns. I did not listen with compassion.
I am just not sure where to go from here. Grief of griefs. Tears.
RAI
P.S. Job or anyone else, do you still think I should move my thread to MLC?
Little, I am trying to see it from her perspective. The part I am struggling with is that she made terrible choices. She chose to go outside the M. How could someone choose that? If your H is selfish and controlling, you go for counselling, no? you don't just walk out on the marriage.
You're assuming everyone handles their difficulties logically and the way you do. Everyone's mode of dealing with things is different, people do things they never imagined they'd ever do, and people make mistakes and then learn from them (or not, sometimes, too).
You can't control what she does, nor what she did. It happened. It's done.
Originally Posted By: RAI
She is now choosing to divorce me. She is choosing OM over me. How do I turn off my own resentment towards her for her choices? How can I love her? How can I come home every day and smile at her? How vulnerable can I make myself?
Only you can answer this. Can you? If not, you cannot have a healthy, loving relationship with your W. You need to think about how that affects any future you want with her and what your plans are for YOU going forward.
But one thing's certain: You cannot make her do anything. You can only change YOU.
It's okay to feel upset by her actions. It's okay to feel resentment and hurt and anger and grief. My IC tells me all the time I HAVE to feel what I'm feeling to get past what I'm feeling. But you process it, figure out a way to DEAL WITH IT. You don't sit and fester with it. You can't. It's toxic poison.
ME: 38 BF: 40 T: 10y, no kids, no M (by choice) BD: 7/14/14, BF admits to PA, wants out, lies about new R. 10/1/14: I move out, BF lies about move in with OW 12/4/14: OW confronted, reveals all the lies
P.S. rppfl - I noticed in your signature that your S just started. good luck. I hope you are ok with it.
Thanks, RAI. It's a whole new world this week. I'm not OK with it in that I didn't want it. I'm OK with it in that I'm a strong independent woman who can take care of herself and her kids. So, in Maybell's words, all is well.
We've all made mistakes in the past. What you do from here is work on the things you need to change. Explaining to your W how much you've changed won't cut it. She's going to have to see it consistently over time. If listening is one of your issues, work on that with other people, with your kids, with your coworkers, with random people you meet. It will serve you well whether W comes back or not. Apply that to anything else you need to work on. You'll be better off for it. Leave your W to work on what she needs to work on and to notice the changes in your behavior on her own time.
My situation is much like yours, other than the EA. We loved and had no real issues. She lost herslf in our family and finally went to an IC. This was a feminist type that helped her see she needed to have a stronger voice and say what she felt. No holding back. I went through Pro-se and mediation was done by just us. If you can put your feelings aside for a moment. Read thru things and come up with a settlement, there will be no need to mediate. (as far as I understand it) I sat down and did it with WAW a few months ago. I had an attorney friend look over and suggest things I may have not thought about. My WAW thought I was dragging my feet, but I reminded her, that I do not want this and if she DOES, then she had to get the ball rolling. In other words, make it clear this is not what you want, just don't rush through your decisions.
Me43/WAW43..M 4y..S1 11/S2 4..Bomb2/2014..Dfile 5/2014..Settlement signed 8/20/14..D final 8/29/14 I moved out 10/10/14..WAW got D she wanted. I wanted R. No waiting,just no boundaries in her way.
Can you provide me w/a little bit of childhood background on your wife? What was her relationship like w/her parents? Did she get along w/them before the EA?
Did she suffer from depression after delivering the last child?
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
First of all, I am glad you are here seeking help and thinking about constructive ways to improve your situation. Kudos to you for that.
I know that you are hurting right now and that several others have already weighed in on this. I hope this doesn't come across as a massive 2x4....
Originally Posted By: NewB3
My situation is much like yours, other than the EA. We loved and had no real issues. She lost herslf in our family and finally went to an IC. This was a feminist type that helped her see she needed to have a stronger voice and say what she felt. No holding back.
RAI- I have to say, far be it from me to disagree with my fellow DBers, but I have to really and strongly disagree with this. You certainly had some real issues. I think there's a reason you have received so many responses from the women here, because your description of your wife's pregnancies, post partum periods, and issues with birth control are a little hard to read, without a huge amount of compassion for your wife.
Originally Posted By: RAI
I did try to change and give her 100% leeway in parenting and I was met with more resentment. Now she has 100% leeway and is proceeding with D. How can I show empathy to her now, after what she has done. All the kids are in school in the morning. She has her whole AM and evenings free now. I am coming home 1 hour earlier. I am doing more, but I have a hard time with the empathy.
RAI - I am just speaking for myself here, but I think that most women are not looking for our husbands to grant us "100% leeway" with the kids - we are looking for a partner - someone who makes decisions jointly with us and supports us in raising our families. Have you been that person? It sounds like you know that you weren't
Originally Posted By: RAI
She is non-confrontational. She could have told me she was dissatisfied. Why did she never say anything? Why did she not tell me she was dissatisfied? Why was she so passive, until she walked?
Look, I was pretty non-confrontational in my marriage to, and I agree its not good for resolving differences. But you also say...
Originally Posted By: RAI
He was an unplanned pregnancy - and not our first unplanned pregnancy - and my wife was very upset each and every time. I would always shrug off her complaints
So it seems like your wife did let you know that she was pretty dissatisfied
Originally Posted By: RAI
I admitted my mistakes, I tried to forgive her, and I tried to make durable changes (before I found DB and DR). She still wanted to D. Two weeks later I caught her with OM for the second time. She is now choosing to divorce me. She is choosing OM over me. How do I turn off my own resentment towards her for her choices? How can I love her? How can I come home every day and smile at her? How vulnerable can I make myself?
It sounds like your wife had a lot of issues with being pregnant, breast feeding, early childcare etc. If you add up the years of being pregnant and nursing for 5 kids, what do you come up with? How many years of resentment? Your changes may be durable, but its not realistic to expect that after all this time, she's just going to say "Ok, all better now". From the outside, this looks like it is going to be a long, long haul for you.
Your wife has sought out what she was looking for with the OM. She is not in the state of mind to be receptive to your changes right now, no matter how sincere you might be, but that doesn't mean that will always be the case. Keep up all those positive changes! They are very worthwhile, regardless of the outcome with your wife.
W was very close with her M. Her F is not very communicative and has a very obvious generalized anxiety disorder (full disclosure: my assessment only, but I think my wife would corroborate this). Her adopted brother was very difficult, but not towards her. Her sister has OCD-like behaviors. W was popular, had friends. worked at The Gap, perceived herself as "cool".
When we met, W was struggling with an anxiety disorder - she would get panic attacks - and her mother helped her cope with this. Unfortunately, her M had brain cancer and died about six months after we met. This was devastating to her. I thought I could fill the void somewhat, but nothing compensates for the loss of a parent. Furthermore, I urged her to go off meds and cope with anxiety disorder with therapy instead - stupid me.(a brief tangent: I feel like a real Pr-ck. I carry a lot of regrets about my past behavior, believe me - there is a lot I would change). For a while after her mother's death, she referred to herself as the glue holding her family together. Her F was quite dependent on her M and was traumatized after her death. He developed a hospital phobia. He relied on my W a lot to help after his wife died. He remarried quite quickly, though, with little warning to my W (very poor communicator). This was initially a sore spot for my W. I encouraged her to get along with her new stepM for her father's sake.
W got along well enough with her F and his new wife over the years. We both felt they were somewhat irritating, and I think my wife was frustrated that her father did not know how to show her love (in huge contrast to my parents, her ILs). Her step mother was always saying things to rufffle feathers and did not know how to mind her own business. My wife did not like her and would not have felt comfortable leaving our children with her. Now, her stepM is her new best friend. She was very quick to throw me under the bus and justify my wife's actions.
W did not suffer from depression to my knowledge. I never noticed disturbance in sleep, eating, affect/mood. If she did, I missed the signs completely.
RAI
p.s. thanks for hearing me out. It is quite painful speaking all this out. I feel like a monster.
It does not feel like a 2x4 because you are 100% right. She has a right to resent me and I obviously had a *huge* listening problem. If that is the case, maybe going dark is not the right thing to do now. Maybe I should be more active in partnering with her as a dad. I really want to change (otherwise, I would not be here right now). I have been working on myself. Trying to GAL. But I am in purgatory - the waiting place (from Dr. Seuss's "Oh the places you'll go"). How do I act? how do I "be"? what do I say? She is still seeing OM. She made no indication to the contrary. Do I just wait?
What outward signs can I show her that I am changing, even if she still decides to D?
RAI
P.S. your post was so laser-sharp-to-the-point. Well put and much appreciated, even if it is a bitter pill to swallow.
Kind of comforting to hear. thanks so much. Feeling pretty low right now. Like a terrible misogynistic man. I never thought of myself like that before. Quite painful. How did I get this way. Next question for my IC, I suppose.
Quote:
If listening is one of your issues
boy... is it ever. When I read that I realized that it may very well be the root cause of all of the other issues.
Quote:
, work on that with other people, with your kids, with your coworkers, with random people you meet.
It does not feel like a 2x4 because you are 100% right. She has a right to resent me and I obviously had a *huge* listening problem. If that is the case, maybe going dark is not the right thing to do now. Maybe I should be more active in partnering with her as a dad. I really want to change (otherwise, I would not be here right now). I have been working on myself. Trying to GAL. But I am in purgatory - the waiting place (from Dr. Seuss's "Oh the places you'll go"). How do I act? how do I "be"? what do I say? She is still seeing OM. She made no indication to the contrary. Do I just wait?
What outward signs can I show her that I am changing, even if she still decides to D?
RAI - You would probably really benefit from the DB coaching service. I used it and so have many of the other posters here. I think for you especially, it might be soothing, because you get an actionable plan of "what to do".
thanks for the support and advice. What is a Pro-se? I may reach out to you as we head into mediation.
RAI
Pro se legal representation (/ˌproʊ ˈsiː/ or /ˌproʊ ˈseɪ/) means advocating on one's own behalf before a court, rather than being represented by a lawyer.
Me43/WAW43..M 4y..S1 11/S2 4..Bomb2/2014..Dfile 5/2014..Settlement signed 8/20/14..D final 8/29/14 I moved out 10/10/14..WAW got D she wanted. I wanted R. No waiting,just no boundaries in her way.
Sorry- I went back and re-read your thread and I see you've already talked to a DB coach - have you spoken with them again lately?
Originally Posted By: raliced
Originally Posted By: RAI
Raliced,
It does not feel like a 2x4 because you are 100% right. She has a right to resent me and I obviously had a *huge* listening problem. If that is the case, maybe going dark is not the right thing to do now. Maybe I should be more active in partnering with her as a dad. I really want to change (otherwise, I would not be here right now). I have been working on myself. Trying to GAL. But I am in purgatory - the waiting place (from Dr. Seuss's "Oh the places you'll go"). How do I act? how do I "be"? what do I say? She is still seeing OM. She made no indication to the contrary. Do I just wait?
What outward signs can I show her that I am changing, even if she still decides to D?
RAI - You would probably really benefit from the DB coaching service. I used it and so have many of the other posters here. I think for you especially, it might be soothing, because you get an actionable plan of "what to do".
I just spoke to the DB coach last week. We agreed that I need to try to be more civil to my W. I think I am getting the hang of it this weekend. When I think of how I've been all these years, I see my W in a more sympathetic light and that helps a bit. I guess I can thank you folks for that. I feel like I am stuck in a pendulum where I swing back and forth blaming my W to blaming myself.
Aside from that, we are having our first meeting with the mediator on 12/4. I am dreading it. I just have to go with the flow for now I guess. As far as solution-oriented goals, I don't have much. We are moving in a direction, just not in the direction I wanted.
We are actually going to a scholarship dinner tomorrow night. I guess it is sort of a date. Any ideas how to capitalize on this? RAI PS thanks for the kick in the pants
Newb3, Pro se Sounds risky. I have already retained a lawyer as has my W. Everything looks like an expensive proposition. This is so bizarre because my W is usually so frugal. I don't think I would be comfortable representing myself, tho.
RAI - Just a couople of thought for you. Have you read the 5 Love Languages (Chapman) yet? I'm not sure it would immediately help with your wife- but there is a book specifically geared towards speaking the correct love language with your children and doing that might be a very visible change for your wife to notice, not to mention being a great thing for your kids at this challenging time.
Also - and I offer this from a place of great respect - you mentioned that you are a physician? IRL, I am a Quality Analyst for a large healthcare group and I have learned that in order to be effective in my job, I have had to tailor my communications to the doctors. Namely, I am deferential, I constantly acknowledge the difficulty of practicing medicine, I constantly reassure that I am not telling anyone how to practice medicine and I dispassionately present a lot of facts. Possibly - you may look at having to do the inverse. Is it at all possible that when you converse with your wife, you are at least partially using your clinical Drs voice? If there is any chance that you are doing this, you will want to be aware of it and learn to address her more as a peer. I mention this because my STBX is a deputy sheriff and throughout the years he did sometimes slip into using his "cop voice" (emotionless and just the facts) and I can tell you that while its understandable that we can carry these tones over from our working life, it did not go over well with me.
With 5 kids and your profession, I am sure you are busy, but what have you considered in terms of GAL?
we had our first long conversation in a long time. I tried to not focus on what she is doing to me and our family, although I could not help alluding to it. Instead I focused on her and tried to validate her feelings. I told her that her behavior has been inconsistent and that I am concerned that one day she may realize she is making a tragic mistake. I sympathized with her that she may be feeling lost and confused, but that she should sort out her emotions before committing to divorce. I asked her for insight, but she provided none. I asked her if she is struggling with addiction to the OM or depression. I offered to help her, but gently reminded her that I am the only person on the planet – HER H! – to whom she no longer listens. I told her – as if she needed to hear it – that I am a good person, and that I will not impede the divorce even though I think it is wrong. However, I also reassured her that I, and the children, will survive. She seems to have not noticed or cared that I have not had any intimacy in the last six months, so I gently reminded her to be patient with me as it has been a very hard year for me. I told her I used to enjoy being intimate with her, and she said she also enjoyed it. Lastly, I told her that if she is interested in reengaging in our relationship, there will need to be clear boundaries. She cried for a bit. She came over and hugged me. She asked me why I am being so kind to her. I replied that I am trying hard to appreciate the godly spark in her even though she erred (or errs). She told me she needed time to think. I told her that I do not have an ultimatum for her. I just wanted to make it clear to her that our relationship is important to me and that I feel that divorce will ultimately be harmful to her, me, our children and the rest of our family. I wanted to leave her an opening to re-engage in the marriage if she has the courage to do so, but that we will proceed with the mediation process if that is what she wants, and I am ready for it. I then went to sleep, leaving her alone with her thoughts.
I know I did not adhere to the DB playbook, but it was the first time that she looked at me - really looked at me, and saw her spouse, and not her victimizer - in a long time. She apologized, without making any indication that she will change her present course of action. It seems like she knows what she is doing, she feels bad about it, but not bad enough to do anything about it. Since this conversation, it is business as usual. We are co-parenting a bit more, I suppose - last night we began planning S12s Bar-Mitzvah. She gave away the cat that she impetuously adopted 3 months ago. She was so sad about it. I wanted to ask her how she has no qualms about getting rid of me, but I bit my tongue. Yesterday she was wearing a not-very-modest-mini. She changed so much. So hard to detach.
As far as GAL, I am learning bible with a pal at 6AM every morning. He knows about the infidelity, but we really don't talk about it too much. I just enjoy learning with him. I am also working out about twice a week. I like my new physique. I am playing with my S3 very frequently. He is now requesting to be with me more often, which makes me feel good, because he is typically joined to W at the hip. I am teaching my S12 for his Bar-Mitzvah - no small task - and this has been a bonding experience. I want more GAL experiences, but I just can't seem to identify them. I also don't want to do something that will take me away from my kids.
Our first mediation appt is this Thursday. I am very anxious about it. I am not sure how/whether to prepare for it. Also Ws birthday in in 2 weeks. Not sure what to do? a card? a gift? I feel like I have to do something. Any suggestions?
"What time is mediation tomorrow. If I had a choice I would not like (S12) to have divorced parents at his bar mitzvah. I don't think that is fair to him or you. I would like to be able to work on this bar mitzvah with you but I think we should still meet with the mediator to find out what's involved and what we need to do. Please write back.
So thoughtful of her (sarcasm intended). She wants to "work" with me, but not be married to me. I am just going with the flow. I wrote back the time and location for our mediation appt.
Please, if anyone has advice going into my first mediation appointment? I am so nervous about it. Also, as I asked above, does anyone have any suggestion about what to do when my Ws birthday rolls around? It is in 2 weeks.
First mediation session was today. It is scary how ill-informed W is about the realities of D. She is already asking the mediator whether it is appropriate for me to come over to her house and help the kids with their homework. uggh. Worse, she does not seem to realize what a financial blow this will be. She thinks she will be able to maintain her present lifestyle and afford a D. Baby sitters, cleaning lady, she has the whole house to herself in the morning. It is obvious from even a superficial glance at our existing finances that sacrifices are going to have to be made. We have 5 children in private school, we will have two mortgages. Now add attorney fees, mediation costs, counseling sessions, probably counseling for the older children. She wants me to pay for the mediation. She wants to send the kids to summer camp. She wants... she wants... she wants. I told her she will need to get a job. She is reluctant because our S3 is still at home part of the day. But you can't squeeze blood out of a turnip. Yet she remains undeterred. detach...detach...detach...
It has been a very difficult day, but I suppose I got through it intact. what is wrong with her???
I vacillate between wanting this over ASAP so I can move on, and drawing it out further in the hopes of an epiphany that may never come. I feel like such a sucker. On the bright side, I had a session with my IC right after the mediation. He is a sympathetic ear. tonight I want to go to my S12s basketball game and maybe fit some fitness activity in for myself. need to GAL and soon.
Thanks for the support. It is coming just as I needed it. I will pray for you too. I went to my S12 b-ball game then fell asleep twice tonight. Once in the sofa and once in S12s bed as I was putting him to bed. I don't recall whether I also fell asleep putting D5 to bed also. So much for fitness activity tonight. I knew I would be emotionally drained, but I didn't think I'd be physically drained as well from this. My new GAL activity may be napping.
RAI
P.S. Thanks for the sign of life. I was beginning to think I was hosting a dead thread out here. I will check out your thread.
Having a baby every two years is extremely hard on the female body. I once read a doctor's article that said it actually takes a woman's body two years to completely recover from childbirth. And if there were hormone issues........oh well. Just as she is getting one through weening and potty training, it is time for the next one. No wonder she was upset when she learned she was pregnant again. A lot of W's would not have continued to have sex with a H who shrugged off her feelings of not wanting to go through any more pregnancies. So how was your sex life afterwards?
You talk about your resentment, but it sounds as if it may be your ego in pain. You are mad that she chose another man over you. You were mad before OM. What about her resentment and how you were using her body to produce you more children and dictating how you wanted her to breast feed, etc. You knew you would not be there to help her throughout most of the trying times. To women, this looks like control.you wanted to tell her what she would do with her body. You wanted to control what the kids did even though you were not there to endure the long day. Somehow, I have to think if you had kept those little one as much as she did........you would have relented and allowed them to watch TV.....or anything to keep them still for a few minutes while you were having to do some other work.
You are anger now b/c she is doing something you cannot control. Most newcomers talk about their hurt and devastation, but you have a completely different tone to your post.
I know you can't undo the past, but you really need to try and put yourself in her shoes. I always heard it said that if men and women could both have babies, no family would have more than three children. B/c she would have the first one, he would have the second, she would have the third......but he would NEVER go through childbirth the second time.
My grandmother had twelve babies, and grandpa was a proud peacock (as if he had done something great). He couldn't wait for her to heal over having the baby until he was trying to get her pregnant again. Yet he never did one thing to help her b/c he saw that as "women's work". I suppose it was against his religion also, b/c if she begged him to let her rest, he made her kneel and get her heart right with God. She was not allowed to sleep until she submitted to his manly needs. I hope you are not anything like he was, and the reason I told this to hopefully have you see how a woman's love could turn cold to a man who gave her such little consideration.
I don't see how you can forgive her with resentment in your heart. And until you can take a long, hard look at yourself, I don't think you will work on self improvements. If you think you can, maybe you will make out a list of things to change.
Right now, I think you will need to stop making some half excuses by saying she could have done this or that (in other words, gone against what you told her) and saying she should have talked to you. You will not save your M unless you change yourself, first.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I agree with what you said 100%. I did not do it with malice in my heart, but I see how I gave my W many reasons to resent me. I have a lot of regret about it. I can't believe I did not see it and that it had to be pointed out to me. What a jack--s I have been. If you read my reply to raliced you will see that I am starting to get it. She said things along the same lines as you, albeit not quite as pointedly. I have started to look at myself and the role I played. I acknowledge that I put myself and my children before my W and i ended up damaging everyone.
I am not entirely clear what you mean when you say I was angry before OM? I held onto my convictions dearly and this was my own mistake and stubbornness, but I didn't realize that I am an angry person. Perhaps I am but I just could not see it.
I am really trying to understand how I did what I did. I think I have an idea,but I need to digress for a moment. My father, of blessed memory, was kind and gentle and would never raise his voice, but also never disciplined us. I always felt like I could have achieved more if only my parents had been stricter with me. I blamed my parents even though it was my own failing and insecurity. I also wasted a lot of time watching TV. I mistakenly thought that if I was stricter and eliminated TV from the equation that I would raise children that are better than me. None of this is an excuse for my behavior, but I think it was my low self esteem, coupled with arrogance that I knew what is right. I think the arrogance was just another manifestation of low self esteem.
I will make a list of things to change, but I may need some help and further insight to to complete it. I have to go be with my children, but will produce a list the next time I have a free moment.
Our sex life was fine. We struggled early on getting in sync but the last few years were really good. I don't think I forced sex on her - I hope I didn't - but nothing seems certain to me anymore.
Sandi, thanks for telling it to me like it is. I needed to hear it.
I want to make only a suggestion, as you try to evaluate your reasons behind some of the strictness in your household. I certainly do not know this about you, but over my lifetime I have seen this happen in some newly dedicated Christian men. I can understand how the lines get a little blurred with being head of the home, controlling your children, and being taught your W should submit to you. Sometimes (depending on how it is presented through teaching), zealous Christian men can get a few things out of balance. So my thought is maybe that was your case, but IDK. Only you could know about that, and I am not trying to help you find an excuse, it is just what I wondered when reading your thread.
We have all made mistakes with our kids and in our MR. How I wish I could go back in time to do things differently! You are young enough you can still start over with yourself. Of course, you hope it will make a difference in her feelings toward you, but there are no guarantees. If you will earnestly work to make lifelong behavior changes so that you will be a better man, I believe your other relationships will be blessed.
If you don't want the kids sitting like zombies in front of the TV, then give them so many shows they can watch during the day. Your job as the leader is to protect, provide, teach/educate, and show them how to work through problem and how to live. Some of those life lessons will come by demonstrating it yourself.
I know you didn't bring this up, but in keeping with the main subject of this post, remember the scripture about wives submitting themselves to their husbands? First, the commandment is to her, and not you. It is up to her, and not your job to make her do what you want. Men who think they have to emotionally whip the W into submission is really off track with that one. Then, secondly, that scripture simply means she is to respect him. Which, can be a tall order if he makes it difficult for her to admire him as a man/husband.
So, you really have a huge responsibility on your shoulders, don't you? You have to be the man a woman could "honor" as her H. I think that would fall under the heading of "Be a man any woman would be a fool to leave".
Okay, so there is your Sunday devotional.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
It has been a hellish month for me. I was on service over the holidays and I was caring for very sick patients. It was very emotionally and physically draining. It's even more stressful when you don't have anyone to vent to anymore and have to come home with PMA every day. In the midst of this, My W developed diabetes. She told the whole world about it and the whole community is rallying around her. I, too, tried to be sympathetic and reassure her. She was appreciative. However, at one point she was asking me for advice while texting with OM. Then she gave my step-MIL my credit card number and they bought and installed a 48-inch TV over my fireplace mantle.
I do not feel like I should be treated this way: She really is having her emotional needs met by the OM/step-MIL and she is having her financial/medical needs met by me. She wants to spend as usual on tuition, summer camp, housekeeper, up-coming bar-mitzvah, therapists, new medical supplies, attorneys, and proceed with mediation. We were barely making ends meet before the A. I think it is financially impossible to do all this. Aside from her non-profitable home business, she is not working and is, as far as I can tell, completely free from 9 AM to 1 PM every weekday. I finally went to LRT and issued her an ultimatum. OM or Me. If it is me, then we move to a new town, she recommits, and she gets real help. If it is OM, then she tells me so, and finds a way to pay for mediation. I literally cannot afford to proceed - even with my doctor's salary. But I also am struggling here in purgatory. Naturally, she remains silent and has no incentive to choose at this point.
I feel like I am failing on all fronts. I am having a rough time detaching. GAL has been very difficult. We are not on speaking terms at all.
I do want to address some of your thoughts from a previous thread.
Quote:
I can understand how the lines get a little blurred with being head of the home, controlling your children, and being taught your W should submit to you.
For the record, I was never taught explicitly or implicitly that a W is supposed to submit to her H. I never felt that I "have to emotionally whip the W into submission". If I was chauvinist in any way, it did not stem from my religious world view.
I am not looking so much for advice as much as just some support. Nothing has really changed in my sitch, but I feel pretty bad this morning in particular. Perhaps it is because nothing is changing in my sitch. I am still in purgatory.
I have not detached. I am having a hard time ignoring my W's behavior. Every time she gets a text or goes out, I am thrown into a maelstrom of uncontrollable panic. Was it the OM? Is she with him? The PTSD hypervigilance is maddening. I recognize that I cannot control my W, her behavior, or the situation. I am just having trouble shaking off my old illusion that I was in control. I want to stop trying to control everything. I really do, I am just struggling with implementing it because my W and I are in the same household and sleeping in adjacent beds.
Although I live in a no-fault state, my sister advised hiring an investigator in case I need proof of infidelity during the mediation process. I found out this morning that OM was in my house this past weekend as I was out of town with the kids. I know this doesn't change anything because I knew it was going on all along, but I am having a hard time coming to terms with the fact that her behavior precludes our ever being together again.
RAI, give yourself a break. It is really hard to detach if you're still living in the same household. If you're in the dissolution process, then your living situation is likely to change soon, and though you may not welcome the change, it is likely to give you more space to detach, which will help. Do you have to sleep in adjacent beds? Do you have to meet all of her needs? Can you perhaps set some boundaries for yourself and take the focus off of her a bit? I'm sorry you're struggling. It will get better.
M: 43 H: 39 D: 14 Married 15 Together 16 BD: 6/2014 S: 8/2014 OW revealed 10/2014 Instigated dissolution 12/2014, in progress So over it!
Thanks for the quick reply. I am ready for the change. I really think it will be easier to let go when I do not have to see W so frequently. I just don't see it happening soon.
Things are really stalled. As I mentioned in a previous post, she is having all her needs met right now: OM is meeting he emotional needs, and I am meeting her financial needs. She is in no hurry to move things along.
So now I have to take charge and set up the mediation. I really did not want to be responsible for this process. I will have to pay for it as well.
Quote:
Do you have to sleep in adjacent beds? Do you have to meet all of her needs? Can you perhaps set some boundaries for yourself and take the focus off of her a bit?
What the alternative to sleeping in adjacent beds? Which of her needs can I relinquish? What boundaries can I set? I have read some of the threads about setting boundaries, but I still am clueless about which to set and how to set them.
Quote:
I'm sorry you're struggling. It will get better.
Thanks. Although I am having a rough day, I feel like I am handling things better than I have in the past. Whereas in the past, I would have been an emotional wreck for the whole day upon hearing about yet another of her indiscretions, I did still manage to get some work done today. I know things will get better. I just need to strengthen myself to move things along. I know it is in the direction of D, but I do not see much to salvage at this point.
Do you have a guest bedroom where you could sleep? A basement room? A sofa? You taking the initiative to sleep elsewhere will be setting a kind of boundary: You're not willing to continue to pretend that everything is okay when she is likely stepping out on you. If you are meeting her emotional needs, now is the time to draw back. This will be much easier when you're not under the same roof.
For example, my H wanted me to come to the door when dropping off D14 at his place so that she could see us "chat in a friendly way." I thought that was a farce, but instead of saying so outright (and instead of telling him that I wasn't interested in being friends while he has a girlfriend on the side, which he admitted to our daughter), I told him I needed some space -- the same line he had given me previously at BD. I no longer went out to dinner with him and pretended to all be a happy family. That was not to anyone's benefit except his. It just confused my daughter, and these invitations were all about meeting his needs -- his need to seem like a good guy, his need to ask me for favors, his need for my attention.
So ask yourself: what is your wife asking of you that is entirely for her benefit? There is where you can pull back and set boundaries. Don't be afraid. You can do it.
M: 43 H: 39 D: 14 Married 15 Together 16 BD: 6/2014 S: 8/2014 OW revealed 10/2014 Instigated dissolution 12/2014, in progress So over it!
Do you have a guest bedroom where you could sleep? A basement room? A sofa? You taking the initiative to sleep elsewhere will be setting a kind of boundary: You're not willing to continue to pretend that everything is okay when she is likely stepping out on you. If you are meeting her emotional needs, now is the time to draw back. This will be much easier when you're not under the same roof.
Ahoy, thanks so much for your suggestion. The problem is that I am pretending everything is OK because I don't want the kids to be upset and I don't want to be the cause of further strife in the home. I don't want the kids to blame me for the breakup of our family. And my moving out of the bedroom will be a visible concrete step in that direction. They don't know about the infidelity, but they see the breakdown in our relationship. Moving to another room will make me look like the instigator. I would not even know what to tell them if I did.
I know that by not setting boundaries I am probably not respecting myself.
Excuse the tangent, but does anyone know the song by Straight Lines Called "Letting Go"? I think this song should be the anthem of every LBS. I am actually surprised that there is no thread about songs and movies for LBSs (to my knowledge). Music has been very therapeutic for me. There are songs that lift me up when I am down and there are songs in which I sometimes drown my sorrows (beats alcohol). Similarly, there are films that are loaded with guidance on how to endure suffering and how to get back on your feet, and there are films on infidelity that show me that I am not alone.
I am kind of a newbie here, but I think I could be coaxed to start a new thread where members can submit their most inspirational songs or films. It is sort of tangential to DB, kinda like Maybell's 5K training thread, but could be therapeutic for some, in a GAL sort of way. If there is any interest, let me know. If anyone has a song they want to submit, feel free in your response. Suggestions for a name for the new thread would also be welcome.
RAI
P.S. I'm Not Down and Train In Vain, both by The Clash, are particularly empowering.
Until now, I have been struggling to figure out how to behave towards my W. I could not figure out what boundaries to draw. Heck, I was not even sure what a boundary meant. Until now, I have had such a hard time detaching. Now I know why. I was reading KieranR and Starsky's thread (an incredible, quickly-evolving thread - keep up the strong work Kieran) and it finally clicked.
Regardless of (or perhaps because of) what I have been saying to my WAW (threats, insults, sarcasm, bring passive aggressive), my actions until now were screaming that I want her back and that I want to control her. the angrier and jealouser (yup, I made that word up) that I got the more I was projecting that I want W back even if she is cheating. I was basically saying, that I will tolerate any behavior. As a result, she had no boundaries and my self-respect was diminished in my eyes and her eyes. *How very attractive* (sarcasm intended). I guess this is what all LBSs do. They act on their emotions, thinking that the begging and pleading we will help and that their WAW will respond to a rational argument.
I now realize that there are things I will not and can not tolerate. I have my standards. I need to tell her (through my actions) that I would not be willing to have her back as long as she is still with OM. The best way to do this is by not reacting to her crazy; By detaching. Part of being a man that W would be crazy to leave includes respecting myself, and GAL. If that means D, then so be it. I can't control her and I can't stop her for making her own mistakes.
I have read all this in thread after thread and it did not click until now. does everyone have this epiphany at some point during DB? I think it is too late to save my M. It is disappointing, but at the same time, for some reason, it is somewhat liberating. I need to detach and GAL for my own sanity, not to get her back. I need to proceed with the mediation process. Failure to do so makes me look like I am holding on. My friends, I had no idea what "drop the rope means" until this second. I kept asking asking people and never got a response. Looks like I figured it out on my own.
I still have to re-read DB and DR and have a long way to go, but I think I just made my first baby step. As far as being civil and cordial with my W, I realize that it is very important. I have been reading about "Parental Alienation Syndrome". This topic does not come up very much in the forums. I do not think it will help my children if I turn them against their mother. If anything it will be very harmful. Regardless, it will be easier to be civil with W the less I need from her.
I would like to be present, when W realizes what a tragic mistake she made.
RAI
P.S. I feel pretty good right now, but please someone chime in if it sounds like I am making a huge mistake on this.
Detaching and Gal are the essence of DB. We all say and feel the same thing when that bomb drops. We would do anything to have that person back. Don't think I've seen a single thread where they just go " oh right go on then leave". If and when you can look at it rationally why do you want that person back? If someone not involved looked at it they would say WAS has lied, cheated, manipulated, bullied, humiliated,emasculated and basically lost all respect for you (us). they are addicts, and will do anything to get that fix. So why do we want them back? You wouldn't want a friend like that. Our emotions. That's all it is, just natural human behaviour to see something we are losing and want it back desperately. I think with us men as well a lot of it has to do with our ego. I know it does with me. Do I still sit here thinking I want my wife back? of course I do. Do I get moments of clarity and think why the hell do I want her back when she has sh!t all over me for so long? Yes. I will be detaching permanently as i'm moving out. I think only then months or more down the road will I know whether i still want to be with this person. I certainly wouldn't want to be with her the way she is and she wouldn't want to be with me the way I have been for the last x years either. We pushed each other away for years to get to this point it isn't going to get resolved over night.
I read a great but difficult article over at surviving infidelity, wayward section by etaoin. all about his affair. very insightful to how it started, progressed, continued and ended. Its what we already know. Its a fantasy, and the only time it stops is when the fantasy where's off and you start seeing that person warts and all. basically reality kicks in and a lot of the time they think WTF have I done.
Me:40 W:35 D:8 T:13 M:10 WAW: 7/14 PA Discovered: 1/15 at least 6 months Moved out and moved on
Ontheup, I registered with si. I only stalked the site in the early days after D-day. Have not been back there in a long time. I was hoping I could find the post you mentioned. They don't seem to have a search function like DB. I know you can't post links on the board (you could get kicked off because of it). Can you at least describe where you found it? Was it in the general section? Do you know how to search on that site?
" I will be detaching permanently as i'm moving out. I think only then months or more down the road will I know whether i still want to be with this person. I certainly wouldn't want to be with her the way she is and she wouldn't want to be with me the way I have been for the last x years either. We pushed each other away for years to get to this point it isn't going to get resolved over night."
Good luck with the detachment process. Don't let your W turn you into someone you don't want to be. Always take the high ground.
The thread in SI by etaoin was an excellent read. Thx so much for the recommendation. I have wondered so many times what was going through WAWs head. I have had my own theories and have heard ideas from wise family/friends and even from my IC. But I could never be sure. It is so much more credible coming directly from a WAS. It is like etaoin said, if you want advice on how to quit smoking, you don't go to a smoker or non-smoker. You go to an ex-smoker.
The thread gave me a lot of insight and I see my W in a totally different, pretty pathetic, light. Strangely, I was pretty in awe of Ws total transformation even though it was a terribly negative one. However, behind the new clothing (e.g. thongs, fishnet stockings), new music (rap? she's a Jewish momma, for pete's sake!!), long wigs, and extra make-up - i.e. without the mystique - she is a vulnerable, self-absorbed, delusional, insecure individual. I was worried that she had all the control, but in truth, WAW is just as out-of-control as I have been feeling. Etaoin also demystifies the OM. I can stop comparing. Whatever she sees in him is an extension of her own delusions. Lastly, the bit about cheerleaders was totally new to me. Boy, does my W have a lot of cheerleaders. I need to detach from them and their actions too.
Originally Posted By: Ontheup
Our emotions. That's all it is, just natural human behaviour to see something we are losing and want it back desperately. I think with us men as well a lot of it has to do with our ego. I know it does with me.
So true! Sandi2 told me as much 2 months ago. My ears are still ringing. But seriously, Sandi, thanks again for the much needed 2x4.
The posts by etaoin also offer me a glimmer of hope that she may snap out of it one day. IF it happens, it will be too late to save my M, but I will always feel vindicated that I did everything I could to save my M and that I took the high road - starting with respecting myself. Truthfully, I can't ever see us together again. She would have to do a lot of hard work, and I frankly don't think she is capable.
I must drop the rope as it is burning my hands. I will call the mediator tomorrow.
I do think your wife is in one of the early stages of remorse, but there are several stages. They'll go from "I'm sorry I got caught," to "I'm sorry for ME that I've messed myself up so much," to "I'm sorry for YOU that I hurt you (but I still don't see anything wrong with what I did)," to finally a more self-aware "I'm sorry for what I did because IT WAS THE WRONG THING TO DO, on so many levels. For me, for the pain I caused my husband, for the breaking of my vows, etc."
Wow. I had such a tough time reconciling my wife's assertion that she was remorseful for her actions with the terrible feeling I had that she had no remorse whatsoever. I now realize that it was somewhere in between. I may be mind reading, but her expressions of remorse (as I saw them) were reminiscent of stage 2. Obviously, she was not doing anything to help me stop triggering.
This is my wife to a T......"WAW is just as out-of-control"
She is so far down the rabbit hole i have no idea how she is goingto get out. It si all still a massive secret as far as her family and friends. Not one personon her side knows....sigh!
Me:40 W:35 D:8 T:13 M:10 WAW: 7/14 PA Discovered: 1/15 at least 6 months Moved out and moved on
This is my wife to a T......"WAW is just as out-of-control"
I was on call this weekend, which is usually quite stressful and hectic, but I have to say that I had a great weekend thanks to you. Your post, directing me to etaoin's thread, was very empowering. I see my W in a completely different light. Now that I know (at least on a basic level) what her issues are, I can forget about her for now, let her work out her own issues - they are hers to work out, and begin focusing on myself.
Originally Posted By: Ontheup
Not one personon her side knows....sigh!
On, you make that sound like a bad thing. I confided in my sister on BD, and I don't regret it one bit. She may have saved my life.
However, over the last year, others have found out. Some from me and some from my W. Consider yourself fortunate that no one on your Ws side knows. My ILs and BIL have become her biggest enablers. I blocked OMs FB page, but I have been told that my step-MIL posts to OMs page. It is very painful to know that the ILs I have respected all these years have thrown me under the bus. They bought my wife's narrative hook, line, and sinker: We were in a loveless marriage, OM is a friend, etc... They even accused me of being too controlling when I staked out OMs house and found them coming out together - blamed the cop for catching the thief red-handed. With respect to friends, I am always wondering who my W told. Whenever I see someone she *may* have told, I feel a bit cold towards them. It is a very unsettling thing and it can harm relationships that may be valuable later on. The less your Ws family/friends know the better. Also the less you know about who knows, the better.
Even with respect to my own family, I have to tell you that Sandi's rule (I think that was where I read it) about not telling others or at least limiting to whom you tell is spot on. Although my family has been very supportive, they have become another outlet for me to vent to and have enabled excessive, non-productive venting/complaining. I love them very much, but it runs counter to "manning up" and I think I take advantage of them too much. there is no proof that complaining helps or makes you feel better. On the contrary, it probably keeps you from focusing on the matters at hand, detaching and GAL.
I know, that in a just world, everyone would know about the A, castigate your W, and recommend that she reconcile because it is the right thing to do. It just does not work that way. Again, consider yourself lucky that no one knows.
Still on call. Still stressed. But something good happened today so I thought I would chalk something down on the "gratitude" side of my ledger.
I saw the OM on the way to work today and I really felt very little inside. This is a huge improvement. Until now, every time I would see him (or even a car that resembled his own), I would perseverate on it and stress out and get angry - usually for the rest of the day. I think that with time the hypervigilance and hyperarousal that accompany the BHs PTSD start to gradually diminish. It also helps that I am beginning to detach: While I was trying to hold on to and control everything, my WAW and her OM held all the power and my moods/behaviors would be dictated by their actions. I elevated them to the status of puppeteers - and I was the d--n puppet. I am now starting to realize that my happiness and how I choose to behave is dependent on me and not on any external circumstances. I cut the strings. Now, to quote Pinocchio:
I've got no strings to hold me down, To make me fret, or make me frown. I had strings but now I'm free. There are no strings on me. (Music and lyrics by Leigh Harline and Ned Washington) I never realized what a tremendously empowering song that is !! I am strong. I can move forward. I will do what is best for me and for my children.
If my W is choosing to make this mistake, it is her choice alone. They are actually quite pathetic together in their little conspiracy.
RAI
I am sure this is the first time anyone has quoted pinocchio on the board
Weekends are a b---h. They should be family time. For the most part they are. Friday night and Saturday are usually great. I feel pretty detached and spend a lot of time with the kids. Sunday is horrendous. I really feel like this house is not big enough for the two of us. By the time Sunday rolls around, I am climbing out of my skin. This weekend has been especially difficult. I am sick and don't feel much like leaving the house. Add to this that it snowed and I had to cancel a trip to a friend's. I want to really keep up a PMA but I really can't stand being in the same house as W. I feel trapped in the house with her. Add to this my long known realization that nothing good ever comes from snooping: I know I should not have, but I looked in her drawer and found some very sleazy transparent thong panties. Probably about 10 pairs. Who is this person? My son's bar mitzvah is coming up and it's going to cost a lot of money. My WAW is now draining the rest of my finances. I have to work with her to plan the guest list and arrange every detail even though I don't even want to see her at all. I want to smile and go play with my kids but I am having trouble acting as if. I know I am venting and will probably catch a lot of flack but I feel I am slowly losing it. I really feel like I have had enough and I want to get off of this roller coaster.
What do you do on those days when GAL is not an option. I feel like I have agreed by 10 years today alone. Not good. She acts so pious in the community but carries on with OM. I know it's her mistake to make, and I have to let her. Just hard sometimes.
Uggh. What a terrible Sunday. Never ever snoop. Whatever you find will make you feel much worse. In addition to an assorted variety of kinky underwear, I found OM's jacket in our closet. I already know he has been in our house. This just made me feel worse. As a result, I definitely had a setback today: I spent all morning driving around town thinking of ways to catch them or confront them. I almost drove to OMs house. I am glad I thought better of it. I could hear "Don't pursue!" clearly in the back of my mind. Thank you Sandi!! Fortunately, my W has no idea what a miserable morning I had.
Now that my adrenaline burst has subsided and I am sitting in my office with some time to reflect, I keep wondering what the next step should be.
Letting OM in our house for her trysts is unacceptable to me. Am I wrong? Should I ignore it and keep my eye on the prize (whatever that is). My W truly has no boundaries right now, nor is she feeling any consequence of her actions. Ahoy had suggested asking her to move out of our bedroom. At the time, I demurred because I was afraid I would make W into the "victim" and the children would see me as the instigator. Now, I am not so sure that matters. If the children ask me why their mother is not sleeping in her bedroom, I can simply reply "ask her". OR I can say "It was her decision - through her actions." OR I can say that "she is doing things that do not allow us to live in the same bedroom"; OR I can confront W and tell her I know that she is still carrying on - Stop, or move out of the bedroom - your choice. That way she has a choice. The bottom line is that I am tired of trying to salvage her reputation with the children. I do not want to say anything bad about her, but I also don't have to defend her actions.
The other boundary that I can set offering her a Jewish writ of D immediately. It is more symbolic than the civil D, but for some reason she has avoided asking me for one. Don't know why. Don't care why. Until now, I have been avoiding D until after my S12s Bar-mitzvah. I have no idea when would be a good time for D. We have started planning for the Bar-mitzvah and I am coming to the realization that it will be a very dicey situation. Family from both sides will be converging on our small town.
Perhaps I should forget boundaries altogether for now and work instead on getting my act together, GAL, be civil with W, focus on the Bar-Mitzvah.
I remember this song from when I was a kid, growing up in Canada. May have even been on an 8-track. Remember those? Didn't know who the heck he was. He is definitely underrated. I had know idea that song would prove to be so relevant >30 years later. I don't even know what made me decide to listen to it today, after all these years.
Makes me want to listen to some of his other stuff. Further suggestions would be appreciated. Especially those relevant to my present sitch.
The entire "Best of the Guess Who" is great, esp. "Side 1" (yeah, albums -- remember those?) "Undun," "These Eyes," "Laughing," "American Woman," etc.
"Star Baby" is a great -- and lesser-known -- Guess Who song that's really good.
"I'm Scared" is a great cut off his same (first) solo album that featured "Stand Tall." The "You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet" duet with his old Guess Who bandmate, Randy Bachman (who had a HUGE hit with the song when he was with BTO) is cool. His second solo album was okay, but nothing great.
Heh! Makes me want to go out and buy an album. Don't even know if record stores exist any more. Do they?
I saw a live version of "I'm scared" this morning, just after "Stand Tall" on the playlist, where he says in the intro that the best songs come from personal experience. He is making a believer out of me. quickly. Will look up the rest of it, especially the lesser known stuff.
Funny how we never think about the relationships behind the music. Had Bachman not made it known in his memoir, we would not have heard about it. I suppose it is a running theme that in every relationship, there is a hidden undercurrent that is not observable on the outside...unless, of course, someone publishes their memoirs. I would be curious to hear Cummings' POV.
I don't know if you were a fan of the Police, but they were known for their inability to get along leading to their breakup after a mere six albums. Shame.
Just finished listening to Side 1 of Guess who greatest hits. Really great tunes. All received heavy play in their day. Never heard them one after the other like that. funny.
Having a rough morning. I should probably not be here right now because I am totally backlogged at work - but that is part of the problem. I will be as brief as possible.
My ability to handle typical work circumstances/stressors was never that great. Now, when I am overwhelmed at work - still digging out from being on service, the stress is compounded by the fact that I no longer have a partner on whom to lean - perhaps G-d is telling me that I was co-dependent. My stress is also worsened because I can't seem to focus. So much of my time is spent looking inward (pathetic, I know) and perseverating on how my life and relationship took a turn for the worse.
My next mediation meeting is next week. I feel totally unprepared and I don't even have a clue how to prepare. Any suggestions would be appreciated. PLEAAAASE!!! If any knows of any resources, guides for how to "win" at mediation, please let me know.
My S12s bar-mitzvah is coming up in less than two months and I have to work with my estranged W to plan it. Even though we want a very modest event, we are inviting a lot of out of town guests, making it more complicated. I do not want to even see her, let alone work with her. I feel like she is not doing her share of things, but perhaps this is my bias and I need to see it that way.
My only sanity-sparing GAL activity was marred this week: my early 6AM learning partner wants to dump me, or seriously curtail our learning hours because of my tardiness and many no-shows. I am hurt.
Tax season is upon us and I took responsability for filing this year. Usually she would do it, but I am trying to stand on my own. I have not been able to work on it because of all the other things. I feel like W is waiting for me to screw up so she can have the satisfaction of knowing that I need her. Do I need her? Do I need a partner in life. I think I do.
I have not been to the gym in weeks because I am running in circles trying to catch up on work, see my kids, work on the Bar-Mitzvah. So I am not even allowing myself that luxury.
To top it off, this AM, my W left me a note stating "Can you please bring garbage bin to curb. Thank you." She is home all day. Not sure why she is asking me. I Feel like telling her to do it herself, but I did it anyway.
My next mediation meeting is next week. I feel totally unprepared and I don't even have a clue how to prepare. Any suggestions would be appreciated. PLEAAAASE!!! If any knows of any resources, guides for how to "win" at mediation, please let me know.
RAI
' RAI - In my state each party can retain their own lawyer even when they are in mediation. If you are anxious about how to prepare - I would definitely seek this out. The problem with giving advice on these matters is that state law varies so widely. I could tell you my experiences in California (and we didn't end up going to mediation) but that might mean very little in another state.
Did the mediator tell you what to prepare or what would be discussed at this next meeting?
Thanks for the advice Raliced. At the first session I was not ready to let go or discuss much. I think that for my own sanity I am ready to get this process started. I did not yet speak to my L about it and I was not told what would be discussed at the session. Should I call the mediator? I don't know if my W has been in touch with the mediator.
I don't see how talking to your lawyer or asking the mediator what will be discussed ahead of time could hurt? Seems like it could only help you be prepared.
I spoke to mediators assistant and the mediator will call me the morning of the session in advance. I also found out that my W submitted an affidavit of our finances - without consulting me. I have asked my wife to send me a copy.
I will call the L today.
This is very hard for me because I have never been good and monitoring and managing finances. In general, I was avoidant when it came to finances. Add to it that mediation is such an unpleasant task to begin with, and you have the perfect storm for procrastination. I know I need to do this to protect my interests.
I did some reading about shared parenting plans and I have no idea where to start the negotiations. I am considering a 2-2-5 arrangement because that will offer equal time and the most regular time. I will probably ask for a greater share of the holidays and maybe split an additional weekend.
I must admit, that I am so scared of the uncertainty. Terrified actually. I am trying to use my head/intellect, but emotions keep taking over.
Your lawyer can give you a good idea about what the "standard" child custody arrangement is in your state. You will want to give some thought as to presenting your proposal from the standpoint of what is best for the kids.
Speaking with your lawyer will most likely help you with the fear and uncertainty, and if they give you tasks to do, do not procrastinate. You'll definitely want to get a better handle on your finances before you head into mediation. It will be a much more effective discussion on your side if you go in to it educated and confident about these matters.
RAI, I agree with Raliced that your L can be helpful in explaining common child sharing arrangements. There are many variations. Just be sure you ask for what you really want up front, it might be hard to increase time later.
