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RAI #2509625 11/21/14 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: RAI
Little, I am trying to see it from her perspective. The part I am struggling with is that she made terrible choices. She chose to go outside the M. How could someone choose that? If your H is selfish and controlling, you go for counselling, no? you don't just walk out on the marriage.


You're assuming everyone handles their difficulties logically and the way you do. Everyone's mode of dealing with things is different, people do things they never imagined they'd ever do, and people make mistakes and then learn from them (or not, sometimes, too).

You can't control what she does, nor what she did. It happened. It's done.


Originally Posted By: RAI
She is now choosing to divorce me. She is choosing OM over me. How do I turn off my own resentment towards her for her choices? How can I love her? How can I come home every day and smile at her? How vulnerable can I make myself?


Only you can answer this. Can you? If not, you cannot have a healthy, loving relationship with your W. You need to think about how that affects any future you want with her and what your plans are for YOU going forward.

But one thing's certain: You cannot make her do anything. You can only change YOU.


It's okay to feel upset by her actions. It's okay to feel resentment and hurt and anger and grief. My IC tells me all the time I HAVE to feel what I'm feeling to get past what I'm feeling. But you process it, figure out a way to DEAL WITH IT. You don't sit and fester with it. You can't. It's toxic poison.


ME: 38
BF: 40
T: 10y, no kids, no M (by choice)
BD: 7/14/14, BF admits to PA, wants out, lies about new R.
10/1/14: I move out, BF lies about move in with OW
12/4/14: OW confronted, reveals all the lies
RAI #2509631 11/21/14 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: RAI
P.S. rppfl - I noticed in your signature that your S just started. good luck. I hope you are ok with it.


Thanks, RAI. It's a whole new world this week. I'm not OK with it in that I didn't want it. I'm OK with it in that I'm a strong independent woman who can take care of herself and her kids. So, in Maybell's words, all is well.

We've all made mistakes in the past. What you do from here is work on the things you need to change. Explaining to your W how much you've changed won't cut it. She's going to have to see it consistently over time. If listening is one of your issues, work on that with other people, with your kids, with your coworkers, with random people you meet. It will serve you well whether W comes back or not. Apply that to anything else you need to work on. You'll be better off for it. Leave your W to work on what she needs to work on and to notice the changes in your behavior on her own time.



"Don't look back, you aren't going that way"
RAI #2509637 11/21/14 04:52 PM
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My situation is much like yours, other than the EA. We loved and had no real issues. She lost herslf in our family and finally went to an IC. This was a feminist type that helped her see she needed to have a stronger voice and say what she felt. No holding back. I went through Pro-se and mediation was done by just us. If you can put your feelings aside for a moment. Read thru things and come up with a settlement, there will be no need to mediate. (as far as I understand it)
I sat down and did it with WAW a few months ago. I had an attorney friend look over and suggest things I may have not thought about. My WAW thought I was dragging my feet, but I reminded her, that I do not want this and if she DOES, then she had to get the ball rolling. In other words, make it clear this is not what you want, just don't rush through your decisions.


Me43/WAW43..M 4y..S1 11/S2 4..Bomb2/2014..Dfile 5/2014..Settlement signed 8/20/14..D final 8/29/14
I moved out 10/10/14..WAW got D she wanted. I wanted R. No waiting,just no boundaries in her way.
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Can you provide me w/a little bit of childhood background on your wife? What was her relationship like w/her parents? Did she get along w/them before the EA?

Did she suffer from depression after delivering the last child?


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Hi RAI,

First of all, I am glad you are here seeking help and thinking about constructive ways to improve your situation. Kudos to you for that.

I know that you are hurting right now and that several others have already weighed in on this. I hope this doesn't come across as a massive 2x4....

Originally Posted By: NewB3
My situation is much like yours, other than the EA. We loved and had no real issues. She lost herslf in our family and finally went to an IC. This was a feminist type that helped her see she needed to have a stronger voice and say what she felt. No holding back.


RAI- I have to say, far be it from me to disagree with my fellow DBers, but I have to really and strongly disagree with this. You certainly had some real issues. I think there's a reason you have received so many responses from the women here, because your description of your wife's pregnancies, post partum periods, and issues with birth control are a little hard to read, without a huge amount of compassion for your wife.


Originally Posted By: RAI
I did try to change and give her 100% leeway in parenting and I was met with more resentment. Now she has 100% leeway and is proceeding with D. How can I show empathy to her now, after what she has done. All the kids are in school in the morning. She has her whole AM and evenings free now. I am coming home 1 hour earlier. I am doing more, but I have a hard time with the empathy.


RAI - I am just speaking for myself here, but I think that most women are not looking for our husbands to grant us "100% leeway" with the kids - we are looking for a partner - someone who makes decisions jointly with us and supports us in raising our families. Have you been that person? It sounds like you know that you weren't

Originally Posted By: RAI
She is non-confrontational. She could have told me she was dissatisfied. Why did she never say anything? Why did she not tell me she was dissatisfied? Why was she so passive, until she walked?


Look, I was pretty non-confrontational in my marriage to, and I agree its not good for resolving differences. But you also say...

Originally Posted By: RAI
He was an unplanned pregnancy - and not our first unplanned pregnancy - and my wife was very upset each and every time. I would always shrug off her complaints


So it seems like your wife did let you know that she was pretty dissatisfied

Originally Posted By: RAI
I admitted my mistakes, I tried to forgive her, and I tried to make durable changes (before I found DB and DR). She still wanted to D. Two weeks later I caught her with OM for the second time. She is now choosing to divorce me. She is choosing OM over me. How do I turn off my own resentment towards her for her choices? How can I love her? How can I come home every day and smile at her? How vulnerable can I make myself?



It sounds like your wife had a lot of issues with being pregnant, breast feeding, early childcare etc. If you add up the years of being pregnant and nursing for 5 kids, what do you come up with? How many years of resentment? Your changes may be durable, but its not realistic to expect that after all this time, she's just going to say "Ok, all better now". From the outside, this looks like it is going to be a long, long haul for you.

Your wife has sought out what she was looking for with the OM. She is not in the state of mind to be receptive to your changes right now, no matter how sincere you might be, but that doesn't mean that will always be the case. Keep up all those positive changes! They are very worthwhile, regardless of the outcome with your wife.

Good Luck to you RAI - Hang in there.

Last edited by raliced; 11/21/14 06:49 PM.

2 Ds: 7 and 4
BD and Sep: 7/14
Divorce Final 2/16
job #2509684 11/21/14 06:54 PM
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Job,

W was very close with her M. Her F is not very communicative and has a very obvious generalized anxiety disorder (full disclosure: my assessment only, but I think my wife would corroborate this). Her adopted brother was very difficult, but not towards her. Her sister has OCD-like behaviors. W was popular, had friends. worked at The Gap, perceived herself as "cool".

When we met, W was struggling with an anxiety disorder - she would get panic attacks - and her mother helped her cope with this. Unfortunately, her M had brain cancer and died about six months after we met. This was devastating to her. I thought I could fill the void somewhat, but nothing compensates for the loss of a parent. Furthermore, I urged her to go off meds and cope with anxiety disorder with therapy instead - stupid me.(a brief tangent: I feel like a real Pr-ck. I carry a lot of regrets about my past behavior, believe me - there is a lot I would change). For a while after her mother's death, she referred to herself as the glue holding her family together. Her F was quite dependent on her M and was traumatized after her death. He developed a hospital phobia. He relied on my W a lot to help after his wife died. He remarried quite quickly, though, with little warning to my W (very poor communicator). This was initially a sore spot for my W. I encouraged her to get along with her new stepM for her father's sake.

W got along well enough with her F and his new wife over the years. We both felt they were somewhat irritating, and I think my wife was frustrated that her father did not know how to show her love (in huge contrast to my parents, her ILs). Her step mother was always saying things to rufffle feathers and did not know how to mind her own business. My wife did not like her and would not have felt comfortable leaving our children with her. Now, her stepM is her new best friend. She was very quick to throw me under the bus and justify my wife's actions.

W did not suffer from depression to my knowledge. I never noticed disturbance in sleep, eating, affect/mood. If she did, I missed the signs completely.

RAI

p.s. thanks for hearing me out. It is quite painful speaking all this out. I feel like a monster.


Me 48 XW 45
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Raliced,

It does not feel like a 2x4 because you are 100% right. She has a right to resent me and I obviously had a *huge* listening problem. If that is the case, maybe going dark is not the right thing to do now. Maybe I should be more active in partnering with her as a dad. I really want to change (otherwise, I would not be here right now). I have been working on myself. Trying to GAL. But I am in purgatory - the waiting place (from Dr. Seuss's "Oh the places you'll go"). How do I act? how do I "be"? what do I say? She is still seeing OM. She made no indication to the contrary. Do I just wait?

What outward signs can I show her that I am changing, even if she still decides to D?

RAI

P.S. your post was so laser-sharp-to-the-point. Well put and much appreciated, even if it is a bitter pill to swallow.

Last edited by RAI; 11/21/14 08:37 PM.

Me 48 XW 45
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NewB3,

thanks for the support and advice. What is a Pro-se? I may reach out to you as we head into mediation.

RAI


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Quote:
We've all made mistakes in the past.


Kind of comforting to hear. thanks so much. Feeling pretty low right now. Like a terrible misogynistic man. I never thought of myself like that before. Quite painful. How did I get this way. Next question for my IC, I suppose.

Quote:
If listening is one of your issues


boy... is it ever. When I read that I realized that it may very well be the root cause of all of the other issues.

Quote:
, work on that with other people, with your kids, with your coworkers, with random people you meet.


Any practical advice for *how* to do this?

RAI


Me 48 XW 45
lots o' kids
D April 2017
RAI #2509747 11/21/14 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: RAI
Raliced,

It does not feel like a 2x4 because you are 100% right. She has a right to resent me and I obviously had a *huge* listening problem. If that is the case, maybe going dark is not the right thing to do now. Maybe I should be more active in partnering with her as a dad. I really want to change (otherwise, I would not be here right now). I have been working on myself. Trying to GAL. But I am in purgatory - the waiting place (from Dr. Seuss's "Oh the places you'll go"). How do I act? how do I "be"? what do I say? She is still seeing OM. She made no indication to the contrary. Do I just wait?

What outward signs can I show her that I am changing, even if she still decides to D?



RAI - You would probably really benefit from the DB coaching service. I used it and so have many of the other posters here. I think for you especially, it might be soothing, because you get an actionable plan of "what to do".


2 Ds: 7 and 4
BD and Sep: 7/14
Divorce Final 2/16
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