To Pursue or Not

[Arcola]

Hello, I'm a newbie. I'm currently married and my W of 8 yrs, 5 kids together, wants a divorce after me trying to change my ways after discovering she had an EA with OM; not physical at all. My ways have been that I didn't show her affection and now all of a sudden since there is OM she thinks it is fake. So along with my changing my ways I have also made the mistakes of an ultimatum, begging, crying, criticizing. Unfortunately for me the ultimatum brought us to the point of getting ready for divorce.
So lets fast forward. I've made changes and have bought DB as well as working with a coach alone. Things are a rollercoaster. Some days are good and others are bad as far as us talking to one another and getting along. Currently, the rollercoaster is at a high and I have been pursuing her through touches, massages and holding at night. However, she hasn't shown that she necessarily dislikes these acts and on a couple occasions she has complied right away with me asking. I've even asked her did she not want the massages since they were massages a masseur/masseus couldn't do in public and thats why I do them. She simply laughed and didn't say yes or no or that she hated them or wanted them to stop. So should I continue these acts until I see they are no longer effective, or am I completely wrong continuing this approach?

[Starsky309]

Is she still with OM?

[Arcola]

Yes, she is still with OM.

[Cadet]

My ways have been that I didn't show her affection and now all of a sudden since there is OM she thinks it is fake.

Why did you not show her affection?
Was their a reason for this?
So now you are showing her affection, WHY - whats different besides the OM?

5 kids dont happen in 8 years without SOMETHING happening.....

I am confused.

Fill us in some more.

[Starsky309]

Currently, the rollercoaster is at a high and I have been pursuing her through touches, massages and holding at night.

Have you read DB or DR? Pursuing is a huge no-no at this stage. What message do you think you are sending to her by trying to "cuddle" with her when she is having an affair??

I can guarantee you, she is thinking some combination of:

a) NOW he does this. It took me HAVING AN AFFAIR to get his attention;

b) This is WEAK. How can he not have more respect for himself? He knows I am having an affair and he's trying to snuggle with me??? WTF???

c) Arcola must be okay with what I'm doing. I've still got him as my "Plan B" in case this other thing with OM doesn't work out. (also unattractive)

Are you doing this as some sort of genuine self-soothing for yourself, as a technique to show her affection to win her back somehow, or because you genuinely WANT her at this point?


Starsky

[Arcola]

Cadet,
I'm still trying to find the reasons I didnt show her affection like I should have. Reasons I've come to are that I was under constant stress (job, maintaining life status, foster care, time for myself). I believe I felt W and I didnt connect when I wanted to talk about those topics and how stressed I was. I find her very attractive, but I believe I was more focused on self wants and not her. Another biggie in the lack of affection was not showing affection in public. I know for a fact that was due to me feeling it was inappropriate around the kids as we never were able to go places much alone. So I believe that rubbed off into times when we just so happened to be alone in public.

I'm showing her affection now, because I fear losing the W I love. Initial discovery of the EA and discussions I soon realized my lack of affection to her allowed her to seek it elsewhere emotionally.

With the kids we had three birth losses before having our blood D. We later adopted my oldest D and are in the process of adopting 3 more. Moreover, last year we lost another child shortly after birth. So with the kids I think we grew apart as to how we grieved differently and not sharing some of the same wants/concerns with foster care. I'll just say caring for a child and not knowing if and when a child may go home to family or with who can be quite the rollercoaster.

Starsky39,
I've almost complete DB and plan on buying DR. You're right as how I'm being perceived by here. It is just so hard to detach in this way. Being a man and not having your W available on the emotional or physical level is so difficult to carry on with.

I do need to stop this no-no of showing affection while she is with OM. At this point though I feel I'm showing her that I have changed and also that I genuinely want her. Needless to say it does soothe the pain some being able to physically connect with W, despite me needing to detach because we are still in the woods.

[Starsky309]

I know this is hard Arcola (I went thru this too, 7 years ago), but you simply CANNOT turn to your wife to soothe you at this stage. As harsh (and sad) as it sounds, she simply does not have your marriage's (nor by extension, your family's) best interests at heart right now.

Your position needs to be "end your affair, and come back and work on the marriage with me. I think you will find that I am ready and willing to work on all issues, including my own contributions to our problems. But I'm not going to do it with a third person involved, and I'm not going to wait forever."


Starsky

[Starsky309]

At this point though I feel I'm showing her that I have changed and also that I genuinely want her.

I find this hard to relate to. Knowing my wife was having an affair made her very UN-attractive to me, and I'm actually a pretty co-dependent/enmeshed guy. Have you talked to a good IC about this?

Somehow you've got to find a middle ground between "cold and aloof" and "needy/pursuing" here, Arcola. Cuz the former was a marital complaint of hers, and the latter she likely finds repulsive in her current wayward state.


Starsky

[Arcola]

Your position needs to be "end your affair, and come back and work on the marriage with me. I think you will find that I am ready and willing to work on all issues, including my own contributions to our problems. But I'm not going to do it with a third person involved, and I'm not going to wait forever."

Starsky,
Were you saying I should tell her that? I really don't feel we're at a point where I can set some boundaries. I tried setting some boundaries as far as how much my kids were involved with this OM's kids, but either she completely forgot or doesn't care what I say at this point.

Yes, it feels like she is and I'm letting her walk all over me.

For the past week or so, I've accepted that her moving and taking the kids is what she'll do and I haven't showed her much resistance. However, this past Sunday I agreed to see the house and maybe because I was slightly intoxicated started showing helpful interest in her decision to move. But, I'm starting to feel I shouldn't be helping her at all with this move. I go back and forth in my thoughts whether I should help or not. I feel I should help, because I fear she may turn to OM to help her move and in turn her more angry at me. I also think it will cause friction between us where one is trying to punish the other in any way they know how. Lastly, I think me helping will make the transition somewhat easier for the kids. But on the other hand I feel I shouldn't help, because this is clearly not what I want to happen with our family. Thoughts or suggestions anyone?

As I post this it is nighttime where I'm at, so I'm going to try my hardest to make no physical contact with her.

[Starsky309]

Thoughts? Yeah -- grow a spine.

Ask the women on here if what you're doing is even REMOTELY attractive.

[Train]

Answer (from THIS woman): It's not.

[Ss06]

Nope. It's not. Arcola, as a woman I will honestly say that a sappy, needy, pursuing, clingy man is a HUGE turn off. You're emasculating yourself.

Ever heard of the term "nebbish"? That's how you're acting:

nebbish: (yiddish) a person, especially a man, who is regarded as pitifully ineffectual, timid or submissive.

Gather up your man parts and stop touching her!!!

[Arcola]

Okay, thanks for the criticism. I needed that. I know I tend to fit that term being that I'm an easy going guy in general. Nonetheless, I need some solid advice on this one:
This weekend our city is having Ocktoberfest. Most of my W interaction with OM outside of work has involved the kids. I've decided how I'll respond if she plans on taking our kids to the festival but with OM. So my question is would me asking her for us to take our kids to the festival be pursuing? I just want to be out with my kids and have a good time, not necessarily be out with her. Please note I have 5 kids ages 6mos, 2, 3, 3, and 8. So its not that easy to just take them alone.

[Cadet]

Okay, thanks for the criticism. I needed that. I know I tend to fit that term being that I'm an easy going guy in general. Nonetheless, I need some solid advice on this one:
This weekend our city is having Ocktoberfest. Most of my W interaction with OM outside of work has involved the kids. I've decided how I'll respond if she plans on taking our kids to the festival but with OM. So my question is would me asking her for us to take our kids to the festival be pursuing? I just want to be out with my kids and have a good time, not necessarily be out with her. Please note I have 5 kids ages 6mos, 2, 3, 3, and 8. So its not that easy to just take them alone.

So how can you go without her?

[Arcola]

Well I can go without her, I just really fear the safety of the kids if its just me. The other option is to take my youngest ones and allow her to take the oldest. Unfortunately, my oldest is good friends with OM's daughter. Lastly, it would be to just not go and allow my oldest to go with W.

I hate that with my sitch my oldest child is friends with OM's daughter. I don't want to appear as the bad guy keeping her from her friends.

[Cadet]

Well I can go without her, I just really fear the safety of the kids if its just me. The other option is to take my youngest ones and allow her to take the oldest. Unfortunately, my oldest is good friends with OM's daughter. Lastly, it would be to just not go and allow my oldest to go with W.

I hate that with my sitch my oldest child is friends with OM's daughter. I don't want to appear as the bad guy keeping her from her friends.

SO pick one of these options,
Pick the one that is best for YOU and your children.

Take her out of the equation.
You are making changes for YOU, not to try to win her back.

[twinmom]

Well I can go without her, I just really fear the safety of the kids if its just me. The other option is to take my youngest ones and allow her to take the oldest. Unfortunately, my oldest is good friends with OM's daughter. Lastly, it would be to just not go and allow my oldest to go with W.

I hate that with my sitch my oldest child is friends with OM's daughter. I don't want to appear as the bad guy keeping her from her friends.

Do you have someone that can go with you, like your mom or dad maybe your brother or sister? I have twin 2 year olds, a baby that is almost 3mo, an 8yr old and 13yr old. I do LOTS on my own. Brunch at cheesecake factory just me and the kids, sure! It's not easy but it can be done. A good double stroller is my lifeline along with my Moby wrap!
At 8yrs old I am sure she has more than one friend and you can split the kids with your wife to make things a little easier like you take the 8yr old, the 3yr olds and then your wife can take the 2yr old and the infant.

[Arcola]

Unfortunately, I have no family where I'm at. Being prior military I settled after I got out of the Army.

You are brave to take those many kids to a restaurant alone! I'm starting to do more things alone with all the kids that we used to do together. It gets crazy, but I'm seeing it can be done. I thank God for my 8 yr old because she can take the 3 yr olds to the bathroom if needed. And she's enough mature to know stay where you at if I step away for a minute.

[Arcola]

I need some advice seasoned DBers. My W has started working a 2nd job and as of the first few nights come home later than what she she'd normally come home (she's had this job before, its seasonal). Anyway I feel some things up with her and OM. Moreover her taking this job again was supposed to be a way for her to have more money to move out. I really have no problem with keeping our 5 kids so she can go to work, but I'm feeling used when she can't come home after work.

I want to do something, but don't know what. My job isn't so flexible with me just working 8 hours or getting the job done and still making 40 hours in the course of a week. So with that in mind, what are some things I could do to take action towards this behavior?

[Starsky309]

My wife pulled the same thing. Said she "wouldn't be late," and then came home at 1:15am. I had all of the lights out, the front door locked and the security system armed. Told her calmly the next morning that our family's home was not a hotel, and that if she was going to be that late again to not even bother coming home.

She never did it again.

You've got to learn to set boundaries, Arc. Read the book "Boundaries," by Townsend & Townsend. It's generally considered the definitive book on the subject.


Starsky

[twinmom]

Unfortunately, I have no family where I'm at. Being prior military I settled after I got out of the Army.

You are brave to take those many kids to a restaurant alone! I'm starting to do more things alone with all the kids that we used to do together. It gets crazy, but I'm seeing it can be done. I thank God for my 8 yr old because she can take the 3 yr olds to the bathroom if needed. And she's enough mature to know stay where you at if I step away for a minute.

Can you afford a "mothers helper" type nanny? As in a middle school/high school student who wouldn't be capable of caring for the kids alone but would be an invaluable help for you? I know some of S13 friends (the girls) always want to play/help me at school and sports events. A few have asked if I ever needed help at home they were learning to babysit and they charged $4 an hour.

As far as wife coming home late. I agree with Starsky that you should lock the door, go to bed and tell her if your not going to be on time don't come at all.

[Arcola]

I may have to look into a nanny or sitter once we are separated.

So last night I had a setback. I tried to console her since she was upset about moving out and all. Aside from our sitch, she had signed a 6 month agreement on a house rental and was suppose to move in this Fri. As far as I know she doesn't have anything in the house as of yet. Plus we had some unexpected things come up that requires more money out of pocket. So given all those things is why she's mad.

But back to the setback. I felt like a fool afterward. I guess I was expecting her to give in and have sex. She didn't budge. I also spoke some of my feelings towards our sitch and she didn't validate those feelings. So me looking more of a fool.

The only thing good/awkward about the night was that she came from second job and watched a movie with me. We were like 10 feet apart. Anyway, major setback and time for me to detach again, hopefully longer than 4-5 days.

[Arcola]

So to add to my previous post W has started moving in the rental slowly but surely. She did some moving Saturday. OM helped her. The news got indirectly broke to D8. D8 appears uneasy with it I can tell. I haven't talked to D8 to deeply about it with W or alone, but according to W D8 only concern is if I can be over for dinner sometimes and W over for dinner sometimes.

So in a week ago in an earlier post I told wife I'd help her with moving. I had mixed feelings then, but they are even stronger now that she is actually moving. I will say I refuse to help if OM is around on the day(s) I help. So I need some advice, since I gave my word last week that I'd help, do I stick to it or not?

[twinmom]

No, don't bring it up. If she directly asks you to help her you can cross that bridge but if she doesn't say anything pretend you forgot.

You don't want a divorce don't do anything to help her destroy the marriage. If she wants it let her do the heavy lifting (literally)

[Arcola]

Well I ended up helping her move some things from our house to the rental. While moving I stopped her to talk and let her know she didn't have to do this. She is very emotional about the move too as she has put so much effort into the house we currently live in. While talking, I mentioned how I felt about OM being in the picture and why I overreacted at the beginning of things. She went on to tell me how she felt about OM. She also went on to say part of the reason for her moving because things weren't getting any better between me and her (In my head I'm like duhhh!!! But you aren't trying to make the changes necessary for us to work on our sitch). She says she values him as a friend. Some tears were shed as she expressed how she felt and I too. Unfortunately, nothing got resolved as far as our sitch.

While talking to her she did tell me that OM sometimes gets on her nerves. She said this past Friday at work he asked how she liked the rental and she began to break down in tears. I'm guessing he said its okay, but he also said, "Cheer up its Friday!" He also said something else to do with Friday that didn't make her feel any better. It was some relief knowing that OM might not know just how to comfort my W. And she's one to hold a grudge. If things progress between them I truly hope OM Fs up.

W doesn't plan on moving out until this weekend. Moreover, its a 6 month lease. Hopefully, in that time I progress myself for the better and W and our sitch gets back to what we had but better prior to OM. My kids are all excited about the move. If we argue, we don't do it around the kids. So I guess they think this is some kind of new house or getaway. Whatever they may be feeling I hope the transition isn't too hard on them.

[twinmom]

Here are the mistakes I made and I don't want to see you make....

Telling her she doesn't have to move, she knows that and SHE is the one who wants to. This is huge pursuit.

Comforting her...... when she is upset validate her feelings by saying something like "I know this situation is hard on everyone"

Talking about OM......... (I will add more later, my only "screen time" is when Lilly is nursing and she is done now)

[Starsky309]

Allowing her to talk to you about her OM is emasculating. That's when you get into gay-boyfriend mode, and it absolutely KILLS attraction.

[Arcola]

So an update since I havent posted in a while. Yesterday, I was browsing through W's emails and saw she had sent her mom an email stating the following in there order of progression

-she first saw OM as a friend
-now she wants to be S/D from me
-now she wants to be with OM because she is ready for a man to treat her how she should be treated

Lastly, in an email she sent to me about the foster care situation and whatll need to happen so we can adopt, she also sent this email to OM. Contents of this email pretty much stated we must remain legally separated in order to adopt the kids as mom/dad. Also, since her house will be the licensed house visits to mine will have to be approved. So her follow on response while sending this to OM was she hates she'll have to split her time between two places and it wont be easy. OM replies, "We'll figure something out once we get into a routine."

I was heart broken. I never brought it up to her, but that night we did some talking and without her mentioning OM, she said she wanted a divorce. She also said things weren't getting better between us. My unspoken response, "no s!!!"
She wants us to talk about the specifics of the D,S,kids whatever is in topic for her/us moving on and I guess still be some kind of friends.

I've tried being the friend, but it just doesnt feel right. I feel she is so far gone, based on the email and us only talking about the day to day of the kids and a rental house we are landlords over. We dont even go anywhere together anymore even if it is with the kids. Last weekend she took all the kids and went with OM and spent the day in a neighboring city. This weekend unless she says she wants to come, I'll be taking 4 or 5 kids all by myself to this carnival that is in town.

Running out of time but will add more later. Bottom line, I'm severely hurt and this [censored]. I dont even know if its worth it anymore.

[Arcola]

Sitch hasn't changed much, but yesterday we W, kids, and I went to a few stores together and ran errands. Haven't done this in maybe 2 months. We're suppose to take all the kids to a carnival in town Sun. I initially said I was going alone with all, but she decided to come. Not user if it was b/c of two other foster kids we once had, b/c then I told her I would need her to come along. We talk still, but as friends. She doesn't bring up OM, but I know he's still in the picture. Right now I just need to detach. This is like the 10th time start over, but hopefully today no touching her. That's my biggest detaching obstacle.

[Arcola]

I'm still trying my hardest to detach, but in that process I thought it would be beneficial for me to remove W or my cell phone line from our plan. This would be so I can't check the phone/text logs. Aside from being used to detach, is this a wise move?

[Starsky309]

I wouldn't have done it for the "so I can't check the phone/text logs" reason (I would have instead told myself to suck it up, or I would have asked a trusted 3rd party to keep an eye on the intel for me and notify me only if there was some immediate threat to me, my family or my finances) . . . but I definitely would have cut it off. I would have -- and DID -- do it for the "I have decided that I'm no longer willing to pay for anything you use to conduct your affair, or to run away from our marriage" reason.


Starsky

[Starsky309]

Also, walkaway and wayward wives need to learn to put on their BGPs if they want to leave the marriage.

[bdub]

Starsky, I'm replying from another thread. It is now locked and I am short on time.
Yes I have a L. We are doing a dissolution together through 1 L. Spouses determine how everything is split, parenting time and CS. She is paying that L. However my occupation has allowed me to get to know a really good L . He has offered any assistance I may need and I'm going to have him look over the separation agreement and the dissolution.

[pearlharbr]

Arcola, why are you being friends with her? Do your other friends treat you with such utter disrespect?

You are making it easy for her. She's cake eating, getting everything she wants from OM and you. Why would she ever change her behavior?

Let her problems be her problems. She wants out of the marriage then she doesn't get the support of her husband.

Arcola, as a woman I will honestly say that a sappy, needy, pursuing, clingy man is a HUGE turn off. You're emasculating yourself.

Ditto this.

[Jefe]

Also, walkaway and wayward wives need to learn to put on their BGPs if they want to leave the marriage.

Love this! Why, yes they do!!!

Arcola, as a woman I will honestly say that a sappy, needy, pursuing, clingy man is a HUGE turn off. You're emasculating yourself.

I know this is true. But you ladies love us to be in hot pursuit when we first meet you. That's how I "caught" my wife. The sappy, needy, clingy kills it though.

Let her problems be her problems.

This here is the right answer. I need to do it in my life as well.

Stand firm.

[Arcola]

pearlharbr,
I see that I'm being her friend mostly because I came across this article some time ago

http://www.divorcebusting.com/a_while_spouse_decides.htm

Also, I suppose I'm not completely right in my approach, but as one technique mentioned by Wise Dber's "letting her go." I just somehow someway need to detach.

[pearlharbr]

Ah yes, I remember that article now. I have a hard time with some of the DB advice because it decidedly did not work for me and frankly felt wrong from the beginning. Ultimately I did reconcile with my now H and it certainly was not because I was his friend while he was cheating on me.

Yes, detachment is your friend. It is imperative. Have you read this article ? It really helped me understand the how and why of detachment.

In my experience, my BF was willing to live in the basement and continue his A with OW while I was upstairs, miserable. Things did not turn around for me until I realized that I deserved better and acted accordingly. I packed a bag for him, took his house key off his key ring, and told him to GTFO. When he moved his stuff out I certainly wasn't home and didn't help him move a single thing. He wanted out so it was his responsibility to make that happen. I wasn't rude or mean, I simply wasn't available to him anymore.

[Ggrass]

Nods, that's my h complaint. He wants out he's with ow and yet he complains gg is available to me.

Tough. Not my tea party.

[Ggrass]

Is not available to me! Damn you iPad, you don't know better.

[Starsky309]

pearlharbr,
I see that I'm being her friend mostly because I came across this article some time ago

http://www.divorcebusting.com/a_while_spouse_decides.htm

Also, I suppose I'm not completely right in my approach, but as one technique mentioned by Wise Dber's "letting her go." I just somehow someway need to detach.

If I ever get to meet MWD, I would love to ask her about that article. Because it doesn't seem to match ANY of the other concepts in her books; it's almost as if someone else wrote it.

DBing has always had the mantra "Do what works," and "try different things, and monitor results." I have NEVER seen the approach in that article work when there is an active, unrepentant affair going on. And I've been here 10 years and nearly 25,000 posts now.


Starsky

[Jefe]

OK, good. So I'm not loosing my mind on that one. That article seems so far out of left field.

[Starsky309]

It's one person's story, and anecdotally it has as much value as anyone else's success story. But my experience is that such an approach -- especially when tried by a betrayed husband -- serves only to KILL ATTRACTION and RESPECT (and therefore, LOVE, since most women very closely tie their feelings of "love" with their feelings for "respect") from the woman towards the man, but they also totally EMASCULATE the man, and kill his spirit and his self-esteem (and sometimes even to the detriment of his own mental and/or emotional health).

I think Michele's LRT and after-the-LRT are much more within the mainstream of the DB/DR approach when it comes to unrepentant affairs.


Starsky

[Arcola]

An update on sitch.

Not much has changed aside from any changes I'm making of me (GAL, detaching). The biggest factor slowing WAW down I think is the adoption of the kids. We cannot be divorced and adopt the kids. Also, she still talks to OM as far as I know. Moreover, I did some snooping and although I'm not completely happy with what I discovered, she is torn between OM and I.

I want to apologize in advance if the rest of my post is hard to follow.

I just finished a 5-day trip for me, 1 week for family, family trip to Disneyland we had planned way before our sitch. It included W, kids, some of W's family, and I. The trip was different than any other family trip with regards to W and I. There wasn't any holding hands, kissing, hugs, etc between W and I. We talked but mainly about the present stuff (Disneyland, kids, eating, buying stuff, planning throughout the week). There was one odd moment on the day we went into Knotsberry Farm. A photographer wanted to take a family photo but with me closely hugged up on W and giving her a kiss. I hesitated at the request and ended up licking her cheek. So, that was weird and I know her family (mother, brother, auntie) know we're having some kind of problems, but all laughed at the act.

That being said, I'm unsure how her mother really feels about it. MIL acted the same towards me as well as BIL. But note, that her mother is divorced/remarried because her dad was a serial cheater and her brother (age 32) has been divorced/remarried twice and is currently with his new steady GF which means woman #3. W's now father in law was divorced/remarried too. So, I say that only because I can only imagine what kind of advice or support may be given given their previous marriage histories.

So as I mentioned earlier I didn't stay the entire trip. Despite what had been planned at work upon me returning, in all past family trips I have stayed the entire course. However, this trip I didn't because the ball was kinda in her court if I went since it was going to include her side of the family. Prior to us going, I once asked W did she want me to go. And she said yes, but made talk of how long I would stay. A few days later we spoke of me going again, but she once again had to think about how long I stay. I mention this to say the following.

On the evening we headed to LAX for me to catch my flight, W starts crying in the car b/c D3 is crying she has to go potty and traffic was horrible. We finally get off on an exit to stop for potty break and as we do W starts talking about how she feels she has been a horrible mother and W. I recall my response was either "Yeah, things have been rough" or didn't say anything at all. Nonetheless, we take all the kids potty and stop at a nearby mall to eat prior to dropping me off at LAX.

When W dropped me off at LAX, she started crying again, but didn't speak on anything in particular. I began to feel sorry for her and offered to stay the entire trip irregardless of work, but she said no that's okay. So after I got my bags and set them to the sidewalk, we hugged for about 5 secs while she was still crying and I kissed her on the forehead. She got back in the car and I watched her and kids drive off.

I'd like to analyze the last two paragraphs, but I don't know exactly what she is feeling.

So that's it for the update as W and kids should be home tomorrow evening. I do apologize if my grammar was off, but wanted to post.

[Arcola]

So today WAW really let it be known to me how she felt about who gets what as far as property. Up until now, we really haven't had any discussion about what would happen with our current home or a future home for the kids. Here is how the conversation got started and things that were said. I also spoke of OM.

Note: We've just got back from a family vacation and in my opinion all was okay disregarding our sitch.

I was changing the door knob on a closet to be one that locked so I could use for a networking lab setup. Now, know that I seldom modify the house or rearrange anything in it. So I think this triggered something in her that probably said, "He's going to continue on with this house with or without me." So after I finished I came into the dining room where she was vacuuming and the talk began.

She began to tell me that she doesn't know what she's going to do when her lease (in 4 months) is up on the rental SHE CHOSE. She goes on to say we need to sell the rental home we own (prior to sitch she wanted to sell it but really didn't care if it was a rental to save/make us money). Then she says we need to decide what we are going to do with our current home. In which I respond, "I'll refinance it in my name."

She must have not liked that answer, because she said with a grin, "I'm not just giving you this house." She goes on to say of the sorts, "You'll have to buy it from me or give me what I'm due." Note that the house is in both of our names.

She then goes on to say, "Do you think this is what I wanted (speaking of our sitch). Do you think I wanted to get that rental home." In my head, I'm thinking, "You actually did, regardless of how my past actions may not have met your marital wants."

When I spoke on the subject of the rental home she got, she said, "Its because at the beginning of our sitch, nothing was happening so something had to happen to get things rolling.

I somewhat understand how she can feels this way, but I believe she completely lost sight of how the adoption of 3 of our kids would play out and the financial burden we/she would incur because of it. She's now working a second job at nights twice a week which coupled with her day job would not be enough to pay for the rental, care for kids, and other expenses (car, utilities, etc). We do get a monthly stipend for each foster kid and still do for our daughter we adopted 4 years ago. But know when they're adopted the stipend isn't guaranteed as it then depends on if there is an ongoing psychological issue with the child. So those can't be counted as steady income for years to come ( nothing in life can really, but anyway)

The adoption process is like a waiting game and we cant adopt them until Feb. Moreover, we can't be divorced and adopt them officially as mom and dad.


So the above is how things played out for the most part and my thoughts on it. I will say I lost my cool a couple of times, and didn't validate her feelings much. I totally felt that she was lashing out on me because aside from me not being an affectionate husband (the only thing she mentions during this conversation) I've pretty much carried on as usual, detached as best I could, and not gave her too much friction or openly concern of what she's doing/feeling.

I did at a couple of points mention we probably could work on our sitch if she didn't have feelings for another man. I also criticized her for thinking I'm wrong to feel how I do knowing she has feelings for another man.

Through snooping I've found that she has planned or has visioned her future with OM. I think this played a big roll in how I responded to things. I, however, did not let her know I knew this.

Lastly, I'd like to say that in the heat of things because I was so upset with her with how she seemed to make me the overall bad guy for this sitch, I told her I'd buy another house and she could keep this one so it wouldn't add to the change of things for the kids. I do now realize its a valid concern for her wanting some value of the home we now have. Nonetheless, I do plan on taking back that comment and at least seeing if I can afford the house on my income alone.

[Arcola]

Tonight I told my wife I wouldn't be moving out of the house. I just don't understand how she can be the WAW and want me to move out. My question is what is the purpose of staying firm on not moving out? I want my kids to live comfortably but at the same time I don't want this.

Well, I truly feel if I wasn't detached before, I am now. I now see a totally different woman than what I married and loved so much. Its not just the house, but I honestly can't understand how she's become as she has.

[Arcola]

So an update. After telling wife I wasn't going to move out she responded we would have to go to court then. However, a couple of days later after we talk some about sitch she isn't sure if she wants a divorce or not but she does plan on moving into her rental when its approved by the state for the foster kids.

The tall we had was about me comparing her to other people we know who have experience d similar sitchs. PA or EA and divorce. She doesn't like being compared or contrasted to others. She feels hers is somewhat innocent or different.

Also we spoke of how we feel. She feels because I'm not engaging with her much I don't care or think its all her fault. I validated I was wrong to only blame her from the convo we had about two days ago. I expressed I contributed to where we are now too.

On another note, she's still talking to OM. No surprise here, but after some snooping I truly feel like I'm number 2. I know I'm not in the forefront right now anyway, but this was like confirmation. So the snooping revealed when she was driving back from California by herself and our kids shed call OM first and talk a while and then call me. This pattern occurred about 4 times as she drove back home. I also noticed she seems to talk to OM each morning for 10 to 20 minutes.

Well I'll be staying the pace until adoption of kids and see what happens.

[Starsky309]

OK, so you've seen how the "be her best friend while you wait for her" works. (NOT).

Now what do you plan to do?


Starsky

[Arcola]

Starsky
At this point I feel all I can do is wait given the situation with the foster kids. I want to adopt these three kids, D2, S3, and S 7 mos. So I'm just waiting for paperwork to process. Feb. Isnt a firm month, so it may be earlier. I am going to consult legal counsel so I'm aware of some things to expect or do.

[Arcola]

Update on sitch.

Nothing notable has changed on this roller coaster except I've discovered WAW has kissed OM. I don't know if she decided to kiss OM or vice versa. Nonetheless, after finding this out, I also discovered she felt the kiss has made things worse between them. She also felt that she'd welcome it openly if she wasn't married. W feels he is putting on the pressure now after getting the kiss and feels rushed. From this snooping and past snooping, it seems OM wants them to be exclusive regardless of W being married, nothing to hide. OM isn't married. Anyways, she hasn't told me this and I don't know exactly when it happened. I made record of this happening. I'm in no hurry to unveil or confront on this intel just yet.

I was able to get WAW in the mood to ML this past week. Later in the week I asked if she had slept with OM and she said no. We then went on to talk about our feelings with the whole sitch. After the conversation I felt that we are both on the fence and she doesn't seem to want to be out of the relationship with OM or go no contact. Its only been day 2 since discovering the kiss, but I'm not sure if I'll be letting myself fall into the wanting to ML to her again while this sitch goes on.

Not trying to analyze it, but noticed W last had contact with OM mid day Fri. W and I did some things with the kids this Sat. Dinner with kids had like 10% convo between us. Nothing meaningful said between us. She was either on her phone or talking to the kids.

On the phone note, she has always been this way. I guess I overlooked it prior sitch as I thought all was well, but being glued to the phone on social media and all can have its negative affects. I've done some brief reading on how social media correlates to the divorce rate. I will say prior sitch, I failed to really connect with W on important topics, meaning problems usually got brushed under the rug.

I also wanted to write on some other things related to sitch. Close friends of hers that we've kept their children or spent nights at their house or went on vacations together have surprised me. That being said, they sided with her (expected), but some actually encourage as opposed to listener. I found that one friend that happens to be the closest at present day, said, "If you and OM can make it through this, you can make it through anything." She was speaking of how OM and W relationship hasn't become PA, YET, as we're still married. MIL takes a similar stance, she's just supportive of W.

So I'm pretty much in limbo. Still no date on adoption of the foster kids. Its been on my mind to at least meet with an attorney, particularly why Ive decided to make record of things I've found that scream INFIDELITY. W is set on moving out when she can and when I asked some time ago said she was unsure whether she wanted divorce. I do plan on getting back in touch with the IC I started seeing early in sitch to get some guidance. I also plan on losing some weight. I haven't been steady with working out. I looked at a picture from when W, kids, and I went to outing recently and I really saw how I've let myself go.

[Arcola]

I meant to add this in my last post. So, I was at the barbershop on post (military installation) and the barber who is cutting my hair starts talking to me out of nowhere about "What do you do if you don't know what to do?" He goes on to tell of the pilot instructor who'd ask this to students and how that pilot instructor taught and would come in and get his haircut. So after all this history, the barber finally tells me, "What do you do if you don't know what to do?" He said, "pray."

I've prayed since the beginning of my sitch. However, I really felt God had him tell me that as I was really down on this past Friday.

[theoden]

Arcola,

Sorry you are in this situation -- it stinks. You seem like a really good man, too good, in fact. I'd say you are nice guy. And you know what they say about nice guys?

Sorry to say this, but situation is about to get much worse, in fact you are about to go through the greatest sh*t-storm of you life. So listen closely.


1. Being the nice, needy, "best friend" while you wife is planning to leave you, gets a new apartment, has an OM in the picture, and then tells you she wants a divorce is clearly not working. The only thing that's going to make your wife think twice is your continued GAL activities, PLUS hard-core Last Resort Technique AND a strong stance about what YOU want should you move towards divorce. Right now the best person who can give you any advice is Starsky on these boards. Do EXACTLY what he says. Your wife doesn't respect you and isn't very attracted to you. I don't know if it's possible to re-attract her at this point. I think even MWD would recommend getting more hard-line at this point.

2. I don't fully understand the situation with your foster-children. How long have they lived with you? Do you BOTH want to adopt them? I'm about to say some very unpleasant things. Do you think this is the best time to be adopting children -- as you are about to potentially go through a divorce? The reason I say this, is that if you successfully adopt them, and the divorce case goes in her favor you may be financially liable for those kids, perhaps for the next 21 years and yet, perhaps, they are going to be partially raised if not mostly raised by another man. Sorry if I'm sounding crassly pragmatic. It may not be the best thing for these kids to be getting adopted into a sh*t-storm of a divorce with an OM involved.

3. You need to accept the fact that, given your wife's behavior, you are moving into an adversarial situation. She wants to keep the kids, she wants the house and she probably is going to want child-support. It's time to speak to a good family law/divorce attorney ASAP. Know you rights. I don't know what the laws in your state are, but collect evidence of her affair and start logging how much time you each spend with the children. In some states the person who has the kids more than 50% of the time get ALL the child support from the other person (as much as 35% of their income). In some states if it's 50/50 custody, the parent who makes MORE money pays ALL the child support to the other. In some states child support is calculated based on custody arrangement. DON'T tell your wife that you are collecting evidence, DON'T tell her you have consulted an attorney. Also, you wife leaving the marital home is not good for her case. You may not want to let her take the kids, which may hurt you later on. Talk to your attorney about what will protect your interests best. Maybe she gets to see the kids every other weekend, etc. or 40% of the time. Also talk to your divorce attorney about adopting the kids and what that means. Does she need you to adopt those kids? Does that give you leverage? Can you adopt them without her?

4. Prepare yourself for a divorce. Stop being a deer in the headlights hoping your nice guy routine is going to set the clock back and make everything better. All the evidence says your wife is about to run you over with a truck (financially and legally). So, if you are going to get divorced think hard: WHAT DO YOU WANT? Full custody of the children, possession of your marital home, 50/50 custody? FIGURE THIS OUT NOW. If you don't, your wife or the court will be deciding this for you. Do not drag your heels. The longer you do, the more contempt she'll feel towards you and the more vicious she'll get in the divorce. A friend of mine was being the nice guy in his divorce. His wife got the kids, moved out state with her lover who is raising my friend's children with her AND he has the privilege of paying child support to his ex wife and her lover.

5. You said the OM was #1 in her mind and you are #2. WRONG. She OM is #1, her kids are #2 and you aren't even in the picture. Sorry. If the best interests of your kids were in her mind, she wouldn't be getting a divorce. And if this drags on long enough, she'll try to destroy you. Your best shot at getting an equitable arrangement in the divorce with a functional relationship with you ex is to be clear and strong up front. This also may be your last shot at re-attracting her.

6. Why are you kids hanging around the OM and his kids? You can get a judge to stop that if you want. Most judges don't look favorably at a spouse introducing their kids to their lovers while still married. It's up to you dude. But it seems that you are OK (at least in your wife's mind) with all this behavior -- which is not attractive to your wife. You're not the invisible man. Show up. Take control of your life. Lay down some boundaries. What if she asks you to wait outside with the car running for her while she stops in for quickie with the OM, will you accept that too? Sorry for being so crass, here. I'm hoping you'll snap out of YOUR fog.

7. I refer all people to the Chump Lady webiste. It's hilarious, but like a whack on the side of the head to people who are trying to "nice" their cheating spouses back in to the marriage. It's a much needed tonic.

--Theoden

[Arcola]

Through some intel I came across, W and is filling fed up with OM. He's pressuring for them to be more sooner rather than later. She's also fed up with me. So I think I'm going to back off being Mr. Nice Guy as others on these boards have mentioned. Its nothing yet, and I probably should just pay it no mind, but she for once feels like she wants to make things work between us.

Am I right to back off, or slowly, seldomly show her affection (the area I failed in).

[Starsky309]

Stay detached, mysterious, interesting. Busiest guy in the room. Look good/smell good. Courteous, even engaging, but not NEEDY, not "MELTY MAN" and not PURSUING.

Make sense?

Let her come to you. And when she does, your answer is "Hmmm, I'll have to think about that. I'm not sure how I feel about that (getting back together to work on the marriage) anymore." or "I'm afraid it's not that easy anymore."

A wayward wife losing her attraction for OM1 is only 1/3 of the battle, Arc. If you don't RE-attract her, by working on your GALing and your self-improvements, she will more likely turn to an OM2 than she will to return to the marriage.

Starsky

[igit]

Hi Starsky, igit here hoping you can catch up on my thread.
Thank you

[Arcola]

An update on sitch. Sitch appears to be changing slowly. I came across some photos or Facebooks likes of W that I assume goes along with what she's thinking at the moment. For example, she Liked or found some photo that read something to the effect, "Marriage is two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other." Another photo read to the effect, "Don't touch my man. Don't message my man. Don't call my man." I'm not over thinking these, but I'm surprised to see.

I also know she is okay with our case worker postponing the approval of her rental home. Moreover, last week she found out she could have been living in the house without it being approved yet. Knowing this she didn't rush to start living there and doesn't have a date in mind that I know of. She told me she was scared and sad to find this out. Lastly, with the case worker postponing, she mentioned to her IF our sitch gets to S or D.

Last week W mentioned she had told OM that they cant be friends and he should back off. She also told him she knows this will be hard on the girls (my daughter and his). She told me she didn't mean this wholeheartedly but did tell him. This came sometime after we had a talk about our sitch where I apologized how my failed R areas played a role in what has happened. I'm assuming they still talk and she still goes to his church. She did go this last Sun.

In regards to church, I had to go to the church to pick her and the kids up because she locked herself out of "my" car. I felt weird having to go do so and I also felt mad that I had to be in the presence of "their" church. So these feelings happened twice as I had to go pick her and kids up and then come back when she found her set of keys at home to unlock the car as I had gave her my key which was locked in the car. This was the case because I was taking "her" car to get looked at.

Another occurrence to add to this update is that she brought up the topic of ML. Out of nowhere while we're at the mall watching our kids play in the play area she asks, "Whats the longest we've ever gone without ML?" I answered as best my memory served me and then went on to say I kept track for a little while since this has been going on, but I no longer worry about it. And that ended the topic.

Lastly, I haven't been pursuing physically like I initially did. I've given an arm rub or shoulder rub to say bye when leaving for work in the morning, but that's all. I did try to kiss her this past week because we went out to lunch, but she wasn't trying to kiss me. She didn't say no, but she wasn't trying to meet me halfway either. The lunch was her idea and it has been months since we've been out to lunch.

[Arcola]

It’s been a while since I’ve posted, so I figured an update on sitch was due. This week I should expect W to be moved out of the house. Today, we moved the majority of the things she wanted her rental. There are still some things left, but she was making sure she got every little thing that was hers. Not even an outfit left over. I helped her, because 1) She’s dialed down contact and or ceased with OM and 2) I feel some guilt not helping since my kids are involved in all this mess. The kids I know are confused and my oldest, 9, is sad but happy. Daughter, 9, hasn’t come to me with any concerns out of the usual. I’m hurt and angry at the whole moving out. Primarily what upsets me is that WAW has said a couple times that we aren’t done when I’ve asked. But what gets me is how are we not done but you’re so set on moving out. I’ll admit that I haven’t followed the DBing to a T, but it just seems to me she is being counterproductive of what she says by what she does.

Moreover, through conversations with me and just me guessing how she’s feeling, she has stated that she wants/wanted me to move out. I’ve apologized to her numerous times that I’ve contributed to our marriage getting towards that cliff, but I really don’t see why I should be the one who moves. At no point have I introduced an OW let alone entertained an OW during our situation or marriage. I feel some guilt, 5%, that I’m not moving out since it uproots the kids either way. The other 95% non-guilt is, she is the one who so quickly had to separate from me since she felt things weren’t getting any better between us at the beginning of our situation.

Continuing on the topic of her rental, we’ve being paying $900 a month for a home that has served the purpose of a staging home, meaning she’s furnishing it, for 5 months now. W and I recently learned that her and kids could have moved in the house prior to CPS/licensing agency approval. Moreover, we’ve learned that the info we’ve been given at the beginning of our sitch in regards to how we should proceed to still be able to adopt the kids was all misleading. Furthermore, our license has been moved/submitted under this rental home. So the way forward with adopting the kids is all unclear. Our licensing worker spoke to a few attorneys and came back with they’ve never heard of this kind of situation with an adoption and that regardless it would be up to the judge. At this point, I’m really scared as to how this will play out or the options we’ll be given. It was bad enough that we were separating (will this week)/possibly divorcing and going to adopt them.

Furthermore on WAW’s rental is that she very well may have a best friend of hers come to live with her for X amount of months. This friend of hers has been around since we were dating and I served in the Army with her now ex-husband. Her friend had a nasty divorce with her husband and now I believe is married to guy, but it isn’t all that great (both abuse alcohol). The guy she’s married to now is supposed to be deploying so it’s been some talk between her and W about her coming out here to stay since she really doesn’t know anyone in the state/area she’s in. If this happens, I think this is a major monkey wrench into me DBing anything. I’m sure some of the darker side of divorce will come out, but I think more of the chase your feelings, be happy will be predominant.

Wife has dialed down contact with OM from what she says and I can see. I think she still has feelings for him as she has said on numerous talks when we’ve spoke of OM. On our return from New Mexico, W and I had talk about our situation in which I lost it primarily when I was expressing my feelings towards OM. And this occurred again a couple of days later at our home. I thought this played a role in her dialing back how much or interactions without OM, but I don’t know if it has had any affect. As far as I know her relationship with OM hasn’t hit the sexual relations, but I due suspect (snooping) they have kissed. I questioned her about the kiss without revealing my means on our talk coming home from NM, but she denies they’ve kissed.

OM’s daughter spent the night this past Fri. because it was my daughter’s, 9, birthday. This didn’t sit well with me, but wife did ask me and I thought we were heading in the right direction given she’s cut back or ceased contact with OM. The opportunity for OM’s daughter to spend the night came about because she goes to the same after school program as my daughter and just so happened to be picking up his kids when W was picking up daughter. From what W says, she didn’t offer, it was pre-arranged by my daughter just waiting parent approval. So OM’s daughter and another girl that is a family friend stayed the night Fri. It’s sad that these situations, WAS, can have you feeling anger towards kids who are innocent in the whole situation. I didn’t let this get to much, because as I said she’s innocent, it’s her dad that I highly dislike.

Relations with me and WAW have been bitter. We’ve hugged a couple of times in the past two months, but it’s usually when her emotions are high on our whole sitch. It’s been over a month since we’ve ML. We haven’t split finances, but should be doing so soon since we’re separating and wife has acknowledged we will do this. Aside from our situation, she’s still parenting our children as she always has. And talks between us usually involve the kids.

In closing I’d like to ask for some advice on what I should do. I’ll admit before any responses, that I give myself a big 0 on GAL and 180. I make too many excuses for GAL (schedule, 5 kids, guilt in leaving wife with all kids while awake) and 180 excuses too, but how can I 180 on being affectionate, when she has said the following: it makes her mad, makes her confused, it feels so forced, she doesn’t feel anything for it)

[twinmom]

I get how hard it is to GAL with 5 kids..... I struggle with this all the time. Between nursing the baby, the twins finally being potty trained but LOVE to use every public bathroom in sight, and the older boys basketball/student council/friends activities when I get a sitter all I want to do is SLEEP.
But, you have to! You have to start small but just meet up with a friend for dinner one night a week (then go take a nap in your car before coming home) yep! I have done this many times.


Separate finances, make her choices a reality. As Starsky has told me you were fired from your job as a spouse.

What things are you working on? What improvements are you making in yourself?

[Arcola]

I just wish I understood my WAW. Some snooping today, text exchange between her and a friend, says, “When this whole thing first started I wanted to work on things and learn to appreciate each other and maybe fix it. That was more than six months ago and now I’m just so angry that he’s done nothing and his excuse is because he doesn’t feel like you should have to prove himself or compete with anyone”

I couldn’t believe she had really said that to her friend.

When I confronted her about OM, yeah for 2 – 4 weeks she did want to work on things, but made sure I knew she had feelings for him and just needed some time and that he was just a friend. In that 2 - 4 weeks we went back and forth on her wanting to work on things. I recall she went on travel for work for 1 week and we were supposedly working on things. Upon her return she said to the effect, “I value his friendship and don’t want to lose him as a friend.” Another instance was we spent a Saturday together out in a neighboring city (has more attractions than the city we stay in) and it went well I thought. However, Sun. she wants to go to his church and when I ask her why, she says because she wants something different. Lastly, since ultimatum day after the end of the 4th week, she hasn’t communicated to me that she wants to do whatever it takes to work on us. If anything, I recall more of her wanting to talk/move in the direction of separating and her not stopping being “friends” with OM. And I really don’t know how separating will make this any better

Should I compete? Well, I did, but my actions weren’t wanted and its like too much too late. I know another site similar to MWD’s setup states the LBS should either compete or do nothing for the first 6 months. After that 6 months he recommends pretty much the same principles as people here have.

Her actions and her words are on completely different pages.

[Arcola]

W and I are separated now and 12/11 makes day 4. I hate the fact that we are splitting the kids between homes. They've always taken more to W and now it hurts to see them take to her given I think its negatively impacting our family. We don't have a set schedule yet, but its pretty 50/50. Its hurts that my family has gotten to this point. I haven't seen any behaviors from the children too negative since the separation so that makes it somewhat easier to cope.

She still has a few things in our marital home. I'm not sure when she's coming to get them. It bothers me to see her move her things, but she moved the Christmas tree to her house yesterday and that really got to me. Sadly, I saw the tree at her house last night because I came over to be with the kids for a while. I didn't pay it much mind and didn't even realize it was the tree from my house. I didn't realize the tree was missing from my house until this evening when I wanted to put the lights on I had bought at the store after leaving her house that night. (I know some may think how do you not know the Christmas tree was gone? My mind/thoughts aren't right right now. The tree was right next to the living room TV which I watched last night before going to bed) The whole tree taking gets me because we haven't even discussed how we would spend Christmas. Just a little time ago I recall we at least said we'd spend it as a family, but that was the most detail of it.

OM is still in the picture, but I'm not sure where they stand with each other. From what I could tell contact had been sparse between the two, but now seems to have picked up some. I also think there may be an OM2. Only time will tell and more snooping.

At this point I really don't know what I'm trying to achieve by snooping. At first it was to use as evidence if we divorced. Now its like Yahoo and reading somebody else business. I hope something positive does come out of my snooping. I have no idea if I'll ever show my cards as some DBers have phrased or let her know I've been snooping.

Snooping has led me to not discount this W's EA as a MLC, but I'd say a mixture of the two. My W has for the majority of our marriage been voluptuous. I've always thought she was beautiful nonetheless. Well, this past year to present she has slowly been losing weight. With losing weight comes confidence and a changing wardrobe. This wardrobe is like the woman business casual, but no pants suits and a little tighter fitting. So with these changes comes the compliments that I guessed have boosted her ego. Point being, text exchange between her and some friends about how they look and if they looked like this or that have led me to believe this is a prevalent factor in whats going on.

Snooping has also led me to come across an exchange between her and a friend(s) about "discussing" their separation from men. My W is seeming more and more like she's not her age or something. I recall back in high school and below it was too easy to drop a girlfriend or get dropped and move on

Snooping led me to whats in my previous post. To me it seems like it hitting some of Sandi's Rules. Based on that text exchange I thought she wanted to work on things but was confused on how to. So for a little bit I've been doing what I feel is right as far as piecing. Unfortunately, she hasn't come to me and outright shown remorse for everything and wanting to work on it. Is it showing remorse when you still keep doing the things that you're supposedly sorry for?

A question for the vet DBers out there if you read this. What is the sign that its time to start piecing? Is it clear as day when it comes, or does it gradually come to light? Is piecing along the lines of the separated couple (guy, WAW, son) MWD details in Divorce Busting where the guy uses the LRT even though no affair was still ongoing?

[Arcola]

Tonight has officially ended my snooping. I go to logon to W's cellular online account and enter the secret question answer wrong ONCE and they lock her account. The only way to unlock it is to send a text to her phone. So, I then proceed to remove/add her as an account manager thinking that would reset or create a new account and that didn't work. So between locking her account and add/remove account manager I'm sure she'd received 2-3 text messages. I couldn't verify on the web cause it hadn't been updated since like 2:45 PM.

So at this point I've panicked and wanted to come clean before being caught/confronted. So I call her and tell her what I've done and that I'm sorry. I also tell her this wasn't my style but due to our whole situation I just couldn't believe the things she said (Prior to our sitch I could careless who she was texting).

Our convo lasts about 5 minutes and surprisingly her tone didn't convey she was upset. She was about to meet with a friend at the bar after her work Christmas party so she didn't say anything except okay. I think she is semi-upset, but more scared/ashamed because now she knows I've seen some of the text exchange between her and OM.

I wanted to keep this snooping a secret probably forever, but I think I'm glad I've confessed. It has freed me of the worry of what if she finds out. Well, I feel good I confessed, and now I've probably helped myself to further detach.

[twinmom]

I wanted to respond to your post a few days ago. I have just been way too busy to give it the proper time. Piecing is when your wife comes to you and states SHE wants to work on your marriage.
Sorry love but you're still going in the opposite direction. You really need to stop the pursuit. God I know how hard it is! But your wife will not view you in a positive light if you continue on this path.

You talk about your wife losing weight, would it be healthy for you to do the same? It doesn't matter if it is a MLC or not the advice is the same.

Taking the Christmas tree without a conversation was a jerk move. But recover from this and show her you're fine by getting another one (even a small fake one) and having the kids make paper/craft style ornaments.
Every year my kids make cinnamon applesauce ornaments
2 cups cinnamon
1 cup applesauce
Add more of each ingredient if needed to reach play doh consistency. Roll out and cut with cookie cutters. Use a straw to make a hole for the string. Place them on a cookie sheet and bake in the oven at 225° for about 3-5 hours depending on how thick you make them. They should be competing dry. I always write the year on one side and put ribbon through the hole then hang them in the tree and they smell so good!

Start a few new traditions with the kids. I used to snoop at the checking account almost 3/4x a day when we had a joint account to see where he was and what he was doing. It was a pma blessing when we separated accounts and I couldn't do that anymore because I wasn't strong enough on my own to stop it. Possibly think about forcing yourself to stop the snooping.

[Starsky309]

I wouldn't have apologized for a damned thing. Everything you did, you have done to try to protect your family.


Starsky

[UpperCu]

I know the feeling of relief Arcola, because I did the same thing with one of my Intel sources. But, I'm going to have to agree with Starsky. Your W has done you the disservice of deceiving you and others, so Intel is crucial for verifying the truth going forward.

When I fessed up to snooping, my W actually also fessed up that she was snooping on me too. I was already aware of this since she was not being very clever. I didn't show her all my "cards" and I still am able to keep tabs on her although she moved out several weeks ago.

Unfortunately, I think the only gain you'll have from her knowing about your snooping is detachment like twinmom related to. She probably will become better at hiding things from you now, but isn't likely to change her ways just because you are in the know.

Because I've maintained other sources, I know that my W is still stalking OM and his GF daily, don't believe she has contacted him, but do have proof that she is trying to get a job working with him now and is taking every opportunity possible to cross paths with him. I also know she has kept his phone number. I was able to figure out a way to mess with her and change his # in her phone contact list remotely. She corrected the error once, but I did it again and she hasn't caught on, so that is why I don't think she is in contact with him...

[Starsky309]

Because I've maintained other sources, I know that my W is still stalking OM and his GF daily, don't believe she has contacted him, but do have proof that she is trying to get a job working with him now and is taking every opportunity possible to cross paths with him. I also know she has kept his phone number. I was able to figure out a way to mess with her and change his # in her phone contact list remotely. She corrected the error once, but I did it again and she hasn't caught on, so that is why I don't think she is in contact with him...

I like your style, UC. I like your style.

[zew]

Starsky, you're incorrigible, bless your heart!

[Starsky309]

Oh, I've been known to be corriged once or twice, I'll have you know . . .

[Arcola]

Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas as the day draws to a close. I was fortunate to be able to spend it with my kids and W. It was different given our sitch, but overall it was nice. We celebrated Christmas at W's house and I spent day there with kids until about 5 PM when I brought them back to my house to stay for a couple of days.

Today W and I came to an agreement on how we'd split the finances since we're now separated. Its pretty much 50/50. However, the agreement isn't firm yet and certain things need to occur before we can truly split the finances. Bills have to be put in my name, accounts created, etc. Once everything is squared away the agreement we've came to will serve as a trial to see if everything evens out.

W and I have been separated now for 2 weeks. The first couple of days were very emotional having to see and say goodnight to my kids in another home and then go home alone. The same emotions showed in my W as I saw her cry the first night they had to stay with me. She also cried tonight when they came home with me and she came over to get some of her things. We don't have a set schedule, and its been pretty flexible these first two weeks. The whole separated deal is still emotional at times, but I'll just say its going as good as I think separated can be with kids.

I miss her since we've been separated. Twice I've put myself out their verbally and she didn't reciprocate the feelings I expressed as I thought she might. One instance was me telling her I missed her and she asked why, but nothing came after my responses. The second instance was Christmas Eve and it was late after finishing up presents so I beat around the bush about staying at her house and sleeping in bed with her. Her response to that was I had a cold and upon many other reasons. (This is just a side note, but it makes me wonder how it was never an issue sleeping in the same bed prior to us separating.) Furthermore, after this sleeping instance I asked the question is separated helping us or not since she said things weren't getting better between us living together. Her response was that she wasn't doing this to see if she could handle it or something and that she's just doing what has to be done or taking care of business.

From these two instances of putting myself out there and not receiving what I hoped for really took a stab at my emotions. I'm just like two weeks ago it seemed something was still there between us, but now its like it has vanished. Nonetheless, I realize I must STFU until maybe one day the time/sitch is right. Moreover, despite W not reciprocating feelings, she has displayed that the separation is getting to her on the family level.

Being that we're separated I have no intel if an OM is in the picture. She doesn't seem like it, but what do I know. I'm unable to snoop, plus I told her I wouldn't anymore. I have the urge every once and a while, but it seems to help me overall not being able to.

I emailed MWD group email box to get pricing for IC sessions. I've also finally cracked open Divorce Remedy and have began to read from front to back. I found myself searching for the magic bullet with Divorce Busting and not reading the book in its entirety or from front to back. I've been all over the place with techniques since BD and results I haven't been able to quite measure. I hope to develop a short range/long range plan after reading DR and hopefully seeing an IC.

[Arcola]

Of all the days here I am on New Year's Eve semi happy but upset too. So here goes.

Wife and I were suppose to take the kids over one of her friends house and bring in the New Year, but things changed because of the weather (I'm guessing). So now wife is having some friends over to bring in the New Year and the kids will be staying with me for the night. Moreover, I really don't think plans changed due to weather, because when I went over this morning spur of the moment to help kids get ready so she could get to a Dr. appointment, I saw two 12 packs of different kinds of beer. So, I'm thinking she bought them yesterday when I watched the kids so she could go to the store for a few things.

So as the evening begins we take all the kids to a birthday party for a daycare friend of D3 and S4 (signature needs updating). It went well. A few things I found of interest. Wife asks the lady of the house how long her husband and her had been married She responds 27 years (If I'm not mistaken). Also, somewhere along the conversation while there, it comes up that we stay off the same street. Wife plays this we stay off the same street as if we really are living together. On one hand I'm like yeah I would probably keep it simple, untrue if needed since we haven't known these people for years. On the other hand I'm like why are you lying.

After the birthday we go back to wife's house and I stay for a few minutes before I go hang out over a friend's house for a couple of hours. While at friends house she texts me, "Am I on my way" or something of the sorts. I respond I'll be leaving in 10 minutes. I actually leave in 20 minutes or so unintentionally. When I pull up at her house I see one of her girlfriend's car and another car. When I go inside her girlfriend isn't there and her customer is. (Customer being a Government Civilian who is the manager of a task the contracting company she works for has)

I've met this guy on a few occasions and he seems like a nice guy. I suspect he might be gay, but I also suspect he is just "uppity" and a pretty boy. Anyway, I speak to him nicely as always while I'm there getting the kids. Wife helps me get the kids in the car and when I come over to the driver side while she's finishing getting a kid in the car on my side, she turns and walks to the back of the car as if she's heading inside the house. I'm not sure if she planned on saying something or giving me a hug wishing me a happy new year (me hoping) or what. But I see this and go ahead and say Happy New Year and see you tomorrow (she's coming over to spend time with kids) and get in the car and she walks back to the house.

So here's the venting if none of the above wasn't. I know I shouldn't be concerned with her plans and what she does, but there was definitely a change of plans and I don't think the bringing in the New Year was just going to be at her place. If it was I'm sure her girlfriends would have been there, she probably wouldn't have been so dressed up with make-up, and she would have had food out. Moreover, her and Customer were sipping wine.

As I mentioned above, I initially took customer as a nice guy just as I did OM, but now I'm thinking otherwise. I'm thinking of all the people who could be over here, why is he here. Ethics and customer/contractor relationships/interactions is a big deal as I work for a Government contracting company also. So on that note, I'm like you both know you are wrong. Moreover, I'm beginning to suspect Customer may be intenionally or unintenionally moving in (not living) with my WAW. Only time will tell.

I know this is only New Years, and it hurts the way I'm bringing in. It'll be cheerful nonetheless as my kids are still up at 11:32 PM minus S10 mos, sleep, and D9 at sleepover. So I'll be bringing it in with them and moreover I'm thankful that I and they will if God's will be living to bring in the New Year.

Many DBers mention our spouses have given us the gift of time, but this time is quite the obstacle in life. I'm looking forward to my first session with a DB coach Fri. Right now despite my high emotions I sort of feel like I won't to file for D or confront WAW on the way things are going (since moving out was I guess a solution to things not getting better between us while we were living under the same roof). But, some little hope in me is saying play it cool and see how this coaching plays out.

I hope if 2015 in its entirety is promised to all us DBers, that it is pleasant and we all be in better places physically and emotionally come 2016. So to all Happy New Year!

[Arcola]

I wanted to end the night with my last post, but figured I'd add this since its fresh on mind. So since I'm not completely detached I'm looking on Facebook to see what wife is up to. I check two of her girlfriend's pages and notice they're no longer my friends. As sad as that sounds, I'm not sad, I'm just I guess surprised. I might as well be that criminal that stole from a family. And in closing no Happy New Year from wife, despite the Happy New Year's earlier.

See previous post's closing as I'd like to end this one that way.

[Arcola]

Early Sunday morning about 3 AM I was headed home from the casino and decided to drive by W's house just to see if another car was there. And it was; all lights off in the house too. I didn't recognize the car, but I highly suspect it was her Government Action Officer for the task she works on as a Contractor. My first thought was to go and ring the doorbell and confront her, but I decided not to take action on impulse.

I got the license plate number and subscribed to an online search, but no results. I also checked his pictures on Facebook, but nothing surely identifying it as his car.

So now here I sit at 430 AM in the morning, probably can't fall asleep and upset and some questions on my mind that hopefully you guys can provide a different point of view on.

I try some to play it down, but nothing petty comes to mind when someone I don't know for sure is still at her house at 3 AM in the morning. I'm definitely not downplaying an OM anymore. So, should I go dark, LRT, but only communicate business (kids, house, car, medical, etc.)?

After seeing what I saw this morning and with no definite answers, I'm just dead set on it being an OM there. I recognize all her girlfriend's cars and this one I have never seen before. So, now I'm highly considering filing for D. I want to make our marriage work, but I'm starting to feel like I'm wasting time even if I'm working on myself right now. Please, can anyone give reasons why I shouldn't file? I know there is no golden answer, just looking for some other point of views. Thanks

[HPoirot]

Arcola... you don't have to do anything now. Give it a week. Block your W's page on facebook. Shut down your facebook access for a month if you need to. Stop driving by your Ws house. Start doing things for you everyday. Keep communicating just on business and be friendly. Otherwise, leave your W alone. You know what to do and you can do it.

[Sotto]

HP is right Arcola. Don't torture yourself with this stuff. You're focusing way too much on your W and it won't do any good at this stage (and may do a lot of harm.)

Fact is, there's not much you can do right now about who she allows to park in her drive (no innuendo intended here..) But there's lots you can do about you - shift your focus.

Don't make any sudden moves. If in doubt.....distance...and GAL to try and get your mind onto something else..

[Starsky309]

Arc, see all the previous advice. Like Ragu (or is it Prego?) . . . "it's in there."

[Arcola]

Its been a while so I figured an update was due. W and I are still separated. W and I took the kids to a nearby city for some outlet mall shopping and activities. Convo exchange was good and I remained upbeat. I learned she's renewing her lease for another 6 months come March. Our time with the kids was pleasant, but W still isn't where she used to be. For example, I bought 3 pair of shoes, 3 pair of pants, and 2 shirts and she didn't ask once how much they cost. Prior to BD she'd always ask how much something cost or at least comment on it. Just an observation.

I've learned that I shouldn't wait for her on some things and just take action myself. Yesterday when I looked at bank acct. I saw W's check hadn't deposited. It didn't put me in a bad situation or anything, but for about 4 weeks prior I had asked if we good go to the bank to iron things out and also switch over our direct deposit at the same time since we both have our own accts. now, but something would always come up. I thought we'd do it together, but as I saw yesterday that wasn't the case. So lesson learned, don't wait to take action.

OM is probably still in the picture. Since BD, I've encountered OM twice. Once was at Wal Mart about 5 weeks ago. I was coming around an aisle and bam! there he was. I simply said hi and kept going. It was one of those, yeah I know this person, let me speak type encounters for me. Afterwards, anger came back over me and I'm like why did I even speak to this guy. The 2nd encounter was this past Fri. at D9's talent show at the after school program she goes to. His daughter, my D9, and another girl were doing a song together. He was sitting on the row in front of me to my left. This time I didn't speak and he never looked back at me. He didn't even turn around to say anything to my W while I was there. I don't know who was seated first, whether W and little ones or OM, but I came in late and sat with W and little ones. Moreover, his ex-wife was there and she didn't sit with him she stood the entrance to the auditorium the whole time. From my understanding she cheated on him as to why the got a divorce. Another observation.

Its been about 6 or 7 months now since BD and my days are better. Nonetheless, there are still a few days I think of the whole situation and it may get me down. I'm doing my 180s and some GAL which needs to be stepped up a bit, but overall my days are way better than before. Months right after BD, I'd always think of W and OM, be mad, sad, all over the place, reading everything online while at work looking for that magic bullet. But as I said I'm better now.

[Georgia Bulldogs]

You should start job searching out of state or across the state or even a couple towns over. If you could land a tremendous offer somewhere far away your wife would have to decide whether it was worth it to follow you to a big career opportunity or stay put for a lame relationship with some loser OM.

You - guy who fosters children and adopts them
OM - loser who dates and pursues married women

She's keeping you around for a reason. You must be meeting some of her needs. If you move far away (or give the perception you intend to) she'll need to consider life without you meeting those needs. OM is likely incapable of meeting those needs. He's stuck in his town paying his ex-cheating wife alimony and child support. He's also single now so he could date anyone so why bother with a married woman when there's other fish in the sea.

[Arcola]

Georgia Bulldogs,
I wish I knew what she was keeping me around for. I'll admit I pursue her physically every once and a while, but am trying to not do so anymore. It would be nice to find a job elsewhere, but my kids are young so I don't even look at jobs over an hour or so from home

On OM note, she's still in contact with him. She went to his church this past Sun. and posted some pics on Facebook of our children playing at the playground and I noticed one of OM's kids pushing one of my kids on a swing.

Just blogging now....Today the bug spray guy who always does the house came over. He mentioned not being able to catch either of us at our homes so he can do the inside (we tend to forget our recurring bug spray appointments) and said to the effect I can never catch your wife, ex-wife, or soon to be ex-wife ever at her home. I felt my self getting defensive inside, but didn't say anything. I guess it was the thought of the ex-wife or soon to be ex-wife that got to me.

Everyday since we've been separated if she has the kids overnight I get to come over and visit. I'm glad things are sort of still open with regards to the kids. But after I left and went to the grocery store for a few things, W texts me that D9 is being bad and we haven't been separated for long, but if D9 had a choice she'd probably choose to come stay with me.

D9 we fostered beginning at age 3 and adopted at age 5 and she has always had an attitude. So that's what the text was about. I just thought it was weird she had to throw the being separated in there. I did respond only asking what D9 did and why. And said she did right to punish her as she did.

While I was at the grocery store I decided to go ahead and get Valentine's stuff out of the way. It was sad to look at the cards "For Wife" "For Husband" "For Someone Special." All I could think was I want to give one of these cards but I know its not right and also knowing I probably won't get a special card like usual. I ended up getting a humor one that had Snoopy eating chocolate on it and said something like "I couldn't decide if I should get you chocolates or a Valentine, so I got me chocolates and you a Valentine card." I also, got my kids their Valentine's candies/gifts. That's a 180 for me, I've always relied on her to get the kids things on occasions.

[Arcola]

Just blogging.

Today W and I went to do our taxes. The tax guy was slow and wife was irritated because she had to be back to work to finish up some tasks. So at a couple of moments W gets an attitude with me because I got a figure wrong or had no idea about what the tax guy was talking about. Through us being S, I've sometimes come to feel her attitude attributed too in growing us apart. She's mentioned it as a factor in the past prior to sitch, but I don't think she's ever really worked on it.

On a side note, I wonder if her wanting to get taxes done so soon maybe has something to do with her wanting to file for D. There have been no D talks, but I just wonder.

This afternoon after work I decided to text and let her know how I'm feeling since we haven't ML in over 3 months and that I miss her. It was short and to the point. I also said that if she didn't feel the same way that I understood. She didn't reply. Her next reply was that she was getting off work and headed to pick up the kids and would meet me at my house.

This makes about 5 times I've put my feelings out there only for her to not respond or say something that doesn't reciprocate what I'm feeling.

In some past weeks she's asked me whats wrong or how something was going with me that had nothing to do with our R. I've always replied to the how I'm doing with I'm cool or its nothing. Despite my replies, I'm usually letting sitch get to me or wanting to tell her how I feel about her because I think it'll change her feelings. With other inquiries from her, I've always kept it to the point and let her know what was going on. Then and now I look back on those moments and ask myself why does she even care.

Right now I'm at a loss. Lately, I'm finding it hard to detach or not think about her or our sitch.

[MrBond]

"This afternoon after work I decided to text and let W know how I'm feeling since we haven't ML in over 3 months and that I miss her. It was short and to the point. I also said that if she didn't feel the same way that I understood. She didn't reply.

This makes about 5 times I've put my feelings out there only for her to not respond or say something that doesn't reciprocate what I'm feeling. "

Why on earth did you tell her something like that? It made you sound extremely needy. Not something women like.

[Arcola]

MrBond,
I thought she might feel the same way. I don't know if she's physical with OM or not. A few weeks ago we had talk about R (she initiated) and she mentions how she sometimes wants to call me over to be with her and how shes lonely. And how she feels this way, but doesn't wont to be that couple that still ML but are on bad terms.

Also, not that same day, but some days/weeks after she asks to come over during the kids nap time. I say okay and we're in our bed together nothing too frisky and some small talk. Later on that day kids and I at her house and W and I are watching a movie cuddling, kissing. I even got to stay the night in bed with her, no ML though due to untimely circumstances (I'm only guessing).

That day was a one out of the blue, b/c the next couple of days I asked to come over and be with her and she wasn't feeling that way.

I know now to STFU.

[MrBond]

"I thought she might feel the same way."

Why? You mean horny or that she misses you? She has an OM, sorry to say, she doesn't miss you right now.

"Also, not that same day, but some days/weeks after she asks to come over during the kids nap time. I say okay and we're in our bed together nothing too frisky and some small talk. Later on that day kids and I at her house and W and I are watching a movie cuddling, kissing. I even got to stay the night in bed with her, no ML though due to unforseen circumstances (I'm only guessing)."

Yes you are guessing.

"That day was a one out of the blue, b/c the next couple of days I asked to come over and be with her and she wasn't feeling that way."

So is that how things normally have been? Do you only go up to her for sex? Before, did you romance her or was it just straight to sex?

[Arcola]

I'm guessing she meant horny and not so much that she misses me. She didn't mention wanting to move back in or live together.

When we first met there was romancing. There was also the compliments and me genuinely wanting to spend time with her. That probably went on for 1 to 3 years. Then my gambling/poker addiction (not a financial burden), life, and children seemed to change things. Slowly but surely less romancing, but still ML. ML seemed to be our cover up/fix issues we didn't resolve between us.

[MrBond]

"I'm guessing she meant horny"

You mean YOU meant horny. You do understand that if you want to be a woman, that sex isn't the most important part of sex, right?

"and not so much that she misses me. She didn't mention wanting to move back in or live together."

Of course not. Especially if you haven't put in any effort to attract her emotionally.

"Then my gambling/poker addiction (not a financial burden), life, and children seemed to change things. Slowly but surely less romancing, but still ML. ML seemed to be our cover up/fix issues we didn't resolve between us."

Women need the romancing. That was YOUR fault here. If you just go right in and expect sex, that's exactly what it is SEX. It's no longer making love because that would mean there was love involved.

[Arcola]

"You do understand that if you want to be a woman, that sex isn't the most important part of sex, right?"

That I need to learn Mr. Bond. Several others have said that also in others threads.

The chief complaint during sitch has been I lacked showing her affection. So, do I detach and refrain from a goodbye hug, quick shoulder rubs, quick arm rubs (she doesn't say don't do it, but it seems to me she doesn't want it)? And do I continue to work on myself, GAL, in hopes of re-attracting W?

[DaddyLongShanks]

"You do understand that if you want to be a woman, that sex isn't the most important part of sex, right?"

That I need to learn Mr. Bond. Several others have said that also in others threads.

The chief complaint during sitch has been I lacked showing her affection. So, do I detach and refrain from a goodbye hug, quick shoulder rubs, quick arm rubs (she doesn't say don't do it, but it seems to me she doesn't want it)? And do I continue to work on myself, GAL, in hopes of re-attracting W?

Get a lot of confidence in yourself OUTSIDE of the W. Do things that you are passionate about and take care of yourself. Your dress, your body, spoil yourself some. Even talk to and be close to the opposite sex.

[MrBond]

Right now it's too little too late with the affection.

It seems like since you didn't give her intimacy in sex, it was just about you getting off which is pretty selfish from her POV. Right now work on the trust between the two of you and re-establish the friendship that you had before when you were dating. Don't go overboard with being overly friendly.

[Arcola]

Hey MrBond and DaddyLongShanks thanks for the replies. Ive pretty much been trying to carry on this way.

I go to lunch today and while I'm standing in line waiting on my sandwich to be made my W walks in with another guy. She didn't even notice I was there until she looked up. We were right beside each other. This guy isn’t original OM, but may very well be turning into an OM. I heard of him from a friend that works at same place as wife and also caught some dialogue on him when I had full snoop access to W's text messages. So W introduces me to this guy and I make small talk because I learn he's the little brother of a guy W and I know. I also talk to W about food items I had in a bag because D9 was wanting something specific for breakfast this morning.

After the small talk, I stop talking to them and turn to face the sandwich maker as my sandwich is almost up. So for about 3 - 5 minutes Im not talking to either of them or looking their direction and I guess they were having some convo being that they did come there together. Once my sandwich is finally done I get it and walk around to where W is in line and say see you later, take it easy and look her dead in the eyes. I know my appearance wasn’t happy go lucky, it was more agitated. She says okay, bye see you later (Im not exactly sure what she said, but she said bye one way or the other)

When I go out to my car Im looking for W's car to see if they came in hers. They didn't. I doubt it would have made any difference on how I feel even if I saw her car.

Lastly, W sends me an email when she gets back to work. Nothing about our encounter at the sandwich place. She's just asking about this evening and picking up the kids, her second job, and what house we decided for soon to be one year S birthday.

On the birthday note, I wonder why she even asks me. I could have had a say in the theme of S birthday, but she usually takes the lead on that stuff and she is the social butterfly of us. Just venting...

So did I handle the encounter in the sandwich shop okay? Should I have done something different.

[Arcola]

Today W and I had some email exchange that eventually led to emails in regards to sitch. Through these exchanges I called her out on her kiss with OM and planning her future life with OM. She didn't speak any on the kiss, but felt she wasn't planning her future with OM. She did in one email say that she realizes we both contributed to get us where we are now. She admitted she doesn't talk to OM much anymore (the husband of the couple we're friends with has confirmed this; he works at the same place as W) and resents him for bringing to the light the emotional void she needed filled. She also says she never expected her life to be this way (living in not so good area, smaller house, having to work 2 jobs, separated) and that she didn’t want OM but the idea that someone could actually want to be with her. Lastly, she says she made the choices that put her here.

In reply to her email about somebody wanting her, I said, "I feel we are on separate pages during this separation. I hope that you recall the times I've, to me, put myself out there or my feelings and how I
feel about our living situation. I will say though, I want to be with you and I always have." Her reply below (NOTE: the first paragraph is about an issue I felt we've always had that came up today)

" I see that, I'm very easily frustrated, especially with you, even when you are trying to help. When I've talked to people about it, it seems to be the common response is because there are so many other things that I'm frustrated with when it comes to you that maybe it comes out at those times. I can see how that is possible.

We are on separate pages, I agree. You have told me on a few occasions that you want to get back together and I still have no feelings toward that. I am still on the same page that I left off on the last time that we went to counseling or talked about me moving out. I don't think at any point in time I said I'm moving out but let's really work on fixing this. It had been so many years of me missing something from you and now you are so eager to fix things and think that I am wrong for not giving it another try. You think I have given up and that it's not fair that I'm not giving you the opportunity to prove yourself and that you can change but I have given you chances, years of chances and now I'm tired of giving you chances. I get irritated when you try and invite me over for sex, I get irritated when you try and show me affection because it is so forced. For years I couldn't kiss you, hold your hand or even lay with you without you cringing, making a face or tensing up. Years of that have worn on me and I don't even want you to try anymore."

In my reply to her I said, " We've both admitted we're on different pages. I'm not saying this in hopes it convinces you. But my affection and advances aren't forced. I can't pinpoint what caused my actions in the past. I find you very attractive and aside from me being sensitive to touch except when we have sex I don't know why I cringed, didn't say and do things to let you know you were beautiful and I cared for you. I think it was just me. Something hadn't clicked or I hadn't matured to know what I know now."

What should my actions be based on her responses today?

[Starsky309]

Stop doing this:

I will say though, I want to be with you and I always have."

Can't you see that this only pushes her further away? She knows you're willing to endure ANYTHING to get her back. It's UNATTRACTIVE, and it gives her zero urgency to get off of this fleeing path she's on.


Starsky

[twinmom]

Why are you inviting her over for sex? She is sleeping with another man.

[Arcola]

Starsky - You're right. I've read in DB and DR its wrong, but at my lows and we encounter each other, I sometimes feel it'll do the trick. I really have to change that like you said. She just renewed her lease for 6 months so I hope something gives between now and then.

Twinmom - I invite her over because its been months! I do wonder if she has slept with someone. I know I'd be hurt if I found out she did. She's in such denial she couldn't even say yes I kissed OM.

[Starsky309]

Starsky - You're right. I've read in DB and DR its wrong, but at my lows and we encounter each other, I sometimes feel it'll do the trick. I really have to change that like you said.

Arcola, when you learn to stop operating based on your FEELINGS, and instead have a wise PLAN based on what you've read in the books, then you will begin to make progress.

It's okay to HAVE feelings, but you can't just ACT on them whenever you feel like it when you're trying to re-attract your wayward wife. It leads to setback after setback.

[Arcola]

Sat. W invited me to go to a nearby city with her and kids on Sun. I accepted. We took the kids to the zoo, mall, and out to eat. All interactions between W and I were well, and not much was said by either of us of importance.

I got a hold of W's phone after we finished eating because she ran back inside to tell the manager how nice our waiter was. During this time I got into her phone. I saw that she has been or was talking to some guy and somehow sex was a subject. I was in such a panic to read what I could before W came back that I don't know if she or he said they had sex. I do recall her saying she enjoyed talking to him and expressing how she felt, but that she felt vulnerable and she doesn't want people thinking she is too nice.

On our drive back home we spoke shortly about the waiter and previous times eating at this restaurant as well as other people and how they act towards customer service when they/we eat out. After that W said she enjoyed our time together and I said the same. The remainder of the drive home I had my headphones on and nothing was said and I also didn't touch her once on this outing.

I'm feeling kind of low after coming across those texts. I don't even know who this guy is. Well tomorrow is work so that will have my mind elsewhere. I think I'm going to schedule a phone counseling since its been 2 or 3 months since my first of 3 sessions.

[Arcola]

W just texted me that she knows she has said this a few times, but that she had a really nice time. I replied that I had a nice time too and thanked her for inviting me. I followed that up with a hope the kids are wore out so you can turn in at a decent time.

[Arcola]

Just got off the phone with wife. Things turned quick. We were talking about our tax refund and I asked how would she like to spend it. She responded half and half. That was cool with me, so I simply verified with, You get x amount and I get x amount? Then the conversation took another tone and took off. She started with its not like I'm going to spend the money, I'm going to use it on credit card debt. Then she goes on to say how this financial situation makes her angry. How she doesn't like to discuss the finances because it makes her angry, working two jobs, her moving into a new place, her paying on a Lowe's debt for work done on our house she no longer lives in, etc. She also went on to say how our house she pretty much created (back yard, additions).

I let her say what she had to without lashing back. I tried to validate and said I don’t know what its like to have to move into a new place and establish everything new. I don't think I said anything or validated on how she felt about her financial situation. I do know its starting to slim the pockets for me though.

At one point she got to talking about our house and how people who were over complementing it a couple of weekends ago for S1 birthday party. She went on a rant about how she made the house this or that for what it is now and what the kids enjoy. I gave her the credit that the majority of the ideas and actions to get them in motion/completed were hers, however we both funded those things happening. I also went on to say its our house and I don’t look at it or refer to it as "my" house as she does in conversation or to me.

Our convo ended because she had to get back to work. Guess I got to look forward to this more.

[Georgia Bulldogs]

You should start redecorating a room or two at your house. Making it "yours'. It'll be a good project to occupy your time and your mind on a healthy project of taking ownership of your home as though she isn't coming back. Instead of sulking over her...she'll hear about you doing this and that to "HER" home and wonder what's got into you....maybe. Either way, it's healthy for you to begin transitioning your space into "your" space should this not turn out as you wish.

[Arcola]

Yesterday because I got into WAW phone, I confirmed she has been in a PA with another man. He isn't original OM which I also confirmed she never slept with. Its been running through my mind since the early AM when I read it. I haven't confronted her about it, but I've been pretty silent. We stayed overnight in a city to do things with the kids. Should I confront her or what? Its running through my mind like crazy. I even asked her last night if she slept with someone and she said no, following it up with her and a friend girl talk about self pleasing so so much.

[twinmom]

Why are you snooping? Aren't you separated? She fired you as her husband and in her eyes most likely views your marriage as over and she is moving on. You should figure out a plan and stick with it.

Yesterday because I got into WAW phone, I confirmed she has been in a PA with another man. He isn't original OM which I also confirmed she never slept with. Its been running through my mind since the early AM when I read it. I haven't confronted her about it, but I've been pretty silent. We stayed overnight in a city to do things with the kids. Should I confront her or what? Its running through my mind like crazy. I even asked her last night if she slept with someone and she said no, following it up with her and a friend girl talk about self pleasing so so much.

[Jefe]

Why are you snooping? Aren't you separated? She fired you as her husband and in her eyes most likely views your marriage as over and she is moving on. You should figure out a plan and stick with it.

Yesterday because I got into WAW phone, I confirmed she has been in a PA with another man. He isn't original OM which I also confirmed she never slept with. Its been running through my mind since the early AM when I read it. I haven't confronted her about it, but I've been pretty silent. We stayed overnight in a city to do things with the kids. Should I confront her or what? Its running through my mind like crazy. I even asked her last night if she slept with someone and she said no, following it up with her and a friend girl talk about self pleasing so so much.

Arcola, if you confront her you will set yourself back 10 fold. Stop looking.