On the drive up, she was excited for me to tell her about the job offer. She was disappointed when I told her the salary. When I told her about the offer and my counter-offer, she was sort of irate that I didn’t ask for more. She felt that I sold myself short, and I think she was upset that I didn’t consult her before making the counter-offer. Perhaps what she doesn’t realize is that this is MY job opportunity and I’m not asking for her help. She’s no longer my mother, and I no longer lean on her. My career is my decision – an adult decision that I should be steering my way – not steered her way. In the end, she said, “it’s your life”, as if to free her hands from me. Good. That’s what she should be doing, and that’s what I want. I didn’t feel that I needed her advice in this situation. It’s my career that’s on the line, not hers.
We had dinner at a nice restaurant. Our food, drinks, and conversation was great. I think this is the first dinner we had where there was no agenda. But, she did bring up the situation a few times, and I tried to deflect as best as I could.
She asked me, “When you see me naked or changing, I notice you turn your head away. Why?”
I said, “Well first, you’re very beautiful, and I don’t want to get myself excited. Second, I want to be respectful and don’t want you to think I’m gawking at you.”
She had this saddened, emotionally-pained look on her face. It’s the same face she had the night when I apologized to her about Victoria and offered transparency on my phone. I’m not sure what it means, but I know I’ll drive myself crazy trying to analyze it.
She also asked how I’m doing overall (with regard to the current situation). I said, “My feelings haven’t changed since the beginning, how I choose to deal with it, has.”
She interrupted, “But you went back and forth a lot in those e-mails (about whether I truly loved her or not)”.
I said, “I know I did. Back then, I was over-analyzing – searching for answers, and trying to provide you with an explanation and conclusion. What I realize now is that my feelings haven’t changed at all. It’s the same as it was a month ago, a year ago, 10 years ago.”
Again, she had that saddened look on her face again and said nothing.
We somehow got into a conversation about Ray Rice and domestic abuse. She said that she was never able to relate to women who would stay in abusive relationships, but after what she went through with me, she can. She realizes that she stayed for three reasons. First, because she was in disbelief that this was happening. Second, because she wanted to protect me. Third, because she didn’t want to expose the shame of being in that situation to her family and friends.
She went on to say that she talks to her cousin every couple of weeks. Her cousin checks in on her to make sure she’s OK. She has told her that she needs to periodically assess three things. One – make sure she is talking to someone about the situation. Two – make sure the kids are taken care of. Three – Be sure that it is worth it (her decision to leave me). That third part was hard to hear. When I asked her “make sure it’s worth what?” she simply said “This – what I’m going through”.
She says her two other friends tell her the same thing. I simply replied, “They sound like good friends”.
She will be spending three consecutive nights with OM over this weekend. That was initially painful to me, but I feel that now is not the time to say anything about it. I know that she is living an open double life. I know she is taking advantage of me, and is borderline being a negligent parent. I have been advised (by my DB coach, as well as her father) not to push the issue.
Even last night, I’m the one who has to “hide the kids from mom’s late night trysts”. I almost wanted to say, "If they hear you leaving and ask where you're going, then that's your problem."
It’s like I’m supporting her A. I want to do anything but.
Last edited by Cristy; 09/16/1403:50 PM.
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
Wife just bought a new exercise program (via infomercial), received it today and asked if I wanted to do the program with her. We just did our first workout, and we both feel good. It's a 10-week program which should finish up right before we go on our cruise.
Shortly, we'll be heading out along with her parents to celebrate her birthday. She wanted to do it tonight because she's busy next week on her actual birthday. She didn't say what she will be busy doing and I'm not going to ask.
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
25 - anything you can offer here is appreciated. Thanks.
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
My FIL revealed to me yesterday that he had a recent conversation with my W, in which my W told him that she has given the OM an ultimatum with regard to divorcing his W, and devoting himself to my W. The OM is currently hesitating to file D, because of his W's father's health situation.
My FIL gets the feeling that my W is starting to realize that she is the 2nd woman in the OM's life.
I know that I'm not supposed to be focusing on the OM/OMW and their situation, and that even if things don't work out between my W and the OM, it doesn't mean she will run back into my arms. I will always keep that in mind.
In other news...
The OMW contacted me last night. She sent me a txt saying, "can we talk"? I'm very tempted to engage her, but history tells me that every time I do, it gets back to my W and things turn ugly.
I want to do the honest thing and simply tell my W that the OMW contacted me. However, the OMW might be trying to work things out with the OM, and if the OM is anything like my W (My W says he is exactly like herself), he will not be happy that she reached out to me. If I tell my W, then my W will tell the OM, which means I could indirectly be dealing a negative blow to their chances at getting back together.
I know little to nothing about their current situation, so I'm simply guessing here. But I'm trying to weigh my options. My gut tells me that I should just be honest with my W, and let the chips fall where they may.
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
I don't know where it fits in on a DB scale, but what's wrong with speaking to the OMW? You're both in the same situation and can support each other, tough noogies if the cheating spouses don't like it. They're making choices -- which they're free do to -- and these are the consequences. Surprise!
I watched a movie last night called The Other Woman, in which a man's girlfriend discovered he was married and she and the W ended up becoming bosom buddies and getting through the situation by leaning on each other. You get your support where you can find it, in my opinion -- even if it comes from sources you didn't count on.
BF:40 M:33 SD: 12 T: 8, never married, no kids together BD: 8/4, "I'm just done", "...too tired and burnt to try". PA confirmed 8/5 "It happened, but it's been over for almost a year".
I don't know where it fits in on a DB scale, but what's wrong with speaking to the OMW? You're both in the same situation and can support each other, tough noogies if the cheating spouses don't like it. They're making choices -- which they're free do to -- and these are the consequences. Surprise! IF you read the DB books, the answer to why you do Not do the aboe^^^ is in both books. Mindsink has outlined them above as well. Just b/c something is tempting does not make it the smart thing to do. It's RARELY if ever, helpful. It's not our job to "teach lessons" to our spouses; it's not our job to "show them the consequences" of their choices. LIFE DOES THAT FOR THEM and already minksink sees his wife struggling along with her choices.
He need not add to the trauma of it all.
Define your goal and ask yourself if talking to OM's w is going to push you closer towards it or farther away from it.
You can also ask your DB coach for their reasoning. Since you're not the one reaching out, it's slightly better I guess, but I think your (ie. mindskin's) analysis of what his wife's reaction would be, is probably accurate.
I watched a movie last night called The Other Woman, in which a man's girlfriend discovered he was married and she and the W ended up becoming bosom buddies and getting through the situation by leaning on each other. You get your support where you can find it, in my opinion -- even if it comes from sources you didn't count on.
Why not get support from your kids or their kids? OH, b/c it's inappropriate to lean on them or involve them and it will hurt THEM? Yes exactly that.
Same for this situation so no, I don't buy the "get support where you can find it" but again, Two Sided, you'll have your answers when you read the book
Til you do read them, maybe you can hold off a bit from advising things that go against the books, b/c they form the basis of this site's approach to marriage and divorce. OFTEN we must resist the urge to punish or expose
(even while we pretend it's something else like "just being honest", we must be honest with ourselves about what we are doing and why)
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
When the OW's baby daddy revealed the A to me you can be absolutely certain he was the very last person I wanted to turn to for support. Nor did I have any desire whatsoever to support anything about his $&@ of a girlfriend. I was 100% in kill the messenger mode. Just the sight of his name made me nauseous. In fact I don't like to say that name out loud anymore, even when it refers to someone other than him.
I say now that he may have done me a kindness by letting me know. But I'm not sending him chocolates for doing me such a dubious favor.
Follow MWD. Just because something makes sense from your perspective doesn't make it the right thing to do.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
On the drive up, she was excited for me to tell her about the job offer. She was disappointed when I told her the salary. When I told her about the offer and my counter-offer, she was sort of irate that I didn’t ask for more. She felt that I sold myself short, and I think she was upset that I didn’t consult her before making the counter-offer. Perhaps what she doesn’t realize is that this is MY job opportunity and I’m not asking for her help. She’s no longer my mother, and I no longer lean on her. My career is my decision – an adult decision that I should be steering my way – not steered her way. In a healthy marriage, discussing these ^^^^matters is normal. It's not her being your "mother"; it's her being your partner. She and the kids benefit/suffer from your choices.
As a Lawyer, I do a lot more negotiations work than my h, who is medical and does zero negations. So he often asks me to handle car purchases and, on occasion how to word something at a new job, when they ask him compensation questions. I see nothing wrong with that (except that your m is in a weird status)
but your reaction seems defensive. Is it the present circumstances or would you usually react this way?
Are you embarrassed that she wasn't more proud? Are you a bit taken aback that she expressed the belief you should have held out for more? Is it a done deal?
Are you reading into her words or did SHE SAY she thought you could have gotten more etc? Is the real reason it bothers you, b/c down deep she might have a point? How do you feel about the talk, now?
Do you see how earning more would affect your family? Have you had financial problems in the past?
In the end, she said, “it’s your life”, as if to free her hands from me. Good. That’s what she should be doing, and that’s what I want. I didn’t feel that I needed her advice in this situation. It’s my career that’s on the line, not hers.
We had dinner at a nice restaurant. Our food, drinks, and conversation was great. I think this is the first dinner we had where there was no agenda. But, she did bring up the situation a few times, and I tried to deflect as best as I could. She asked me, “When you see me naked or changing, I notice you turn your head away. Why?”
I said, “Well first, you’re very beautiful, and I don’t want to get myself excited. Second, I want to be respectful and don’t want you to think I’m gawking at you.”
Mindsink, do you have any sense as to why she asked you this^^ question?
To me, it's a clear (glow in the dark) she feels she is NOT attractive to you. That also explains to her, the escort services....PLUS you told her you did Not love her and never did! Yes,
sure you "retracted" that comment but it's still out there. Just b/c WE SAY "I take it back" does not mean it's not still hurting her.
There are some words that are a lot harder to take back and some things, one cannot simply "take back"...the "I must never have really loved you or I would not have been with other women so much" is one of those lines that stings for a darn long time.
So she has cause for deep pain and good cause to doubt your feelings for her. Even now your answers seem too vague and as if you won't blurt out anything risky. Saying "I feel the same as I did"....well that sounds like "I'll treat you the same". IF you are asked a direct & emotional question, and IF you decide to answer it, answer it fully and answer it well. Maybe --
"I love you very much. The single upside to this whole ordeal is that I realize how incredibly lucky I was to have you as my mate; you're gorgeous and sexy and so smart and have been such a good mom to our children. I want to grow old with you and I'm excited about the changes I'm making to become the h you deserve"...now, that is an answer she'd recall.
It is pursuit but like I said, IF you are going to answer a direct, important emotional question at all, then do it right and with full honesty. It's alright to tell her you are concerned that if she knows how you really feel, she'll flee b/c it sounds so passionate and intense (which is appealing!!)...
Also note that in your backstory you DO blame your wife for your choice to see OWs.... You say "she didn't like sex" and maybe that is true...but did you ever ask her WHY?
Did you ever ask her how you could please her more and do it? You just wrote it off to her not liking sex, but the thing is, she must like sex now, or she would not be with OM.
I know that's ^^ hard to thnk about, but if you do reconcile, it may mean you have more to work with, in terms of intimacy. Sounds as if she is different now, or maybe she always was, and now you know. It could be a win win later on.
She had this saddened, emotionally-pained look on her face. It’s the same face she had the night when I apologized to her about Victoria and offered transparency on my phone. I’m not sure what it means, but I know I’ll drive myself crazy trying to analyze it. It means she was hurt!
She also asked how I’m doing overall (with regard to the current situation). I said, “My feelings haven’t changed since the beginning, how I choose to deal with it, has.” She interrupted, “But you went back and forth a lot in those e-mails (about whether I truly loved her or not)”. She's asking you if you are really committed to being with her in a new or different (BETTER) way. She's still hurt from how you negated the marriage to her, (right when she'd just met OM. I wonder if it was your pride talking to tell her more or less "So what? I don't care"..???)
Mindsink, Remember the letter I posted to you from another WAW? You never commented much on it, but that letter could have been written by your wife. Did you see that?
I said, “I know I did. Back then, I was over-analyzing – searching for answers, and trying to provide you with an explanation and conclusion. What I realize now is that my feelings haven’t changed at all. It’s the same as it was a month ago, a year ago, 10 years ago.” Again, she had that saddened look on her face again and said nothing. You need to work on that answer...it is underwhelming and unconvincing
We somehow got into a conversation about Ray Rice and domestic abuse. She said that she was never able to relate to women who would stay in abusive relationships, but after what she went through with me, she can. She realizes that she stayed for three reasons. First, because she was in disbelief that this was happening. Second, because she wanted to protect me. Third, because she didn’t want to expose the shame of being in that situation to her family and friends.
What did YOU say in reply to ^^ that?? It's pretty significant.
She went on to say that she talks to her cousin every couple of weeks. Her cousin checks in on her to make sure she’s OK. She has told her that she needs to periodically assess three things. One – make sure she is talking to someone about the situation. Two – make sure the kids are taken care of. Three – Be sure that it is worth it (her decision to leave me). That third part was hard to hear. When I asked her “make sure it’s worth what?” she simply said “This – what I’m going through”. She says her two other friends tell her the same thing. I simply replied, “They sound like good friends”. well, what did they tell her?
She will be spending three consecutive nights with OM over this weekend. That was initially painful to me, but I feel that now is not the time to say anything about it. I know that she is living an open double life. I know she is taking advantage of me, and is borderline being a negligent parent. I have been advised (by my DB coach, as well as her father) not to push the issue. Then abide by their advice, which I'm pretty sure also says Do NOT JUDGE her, let alone as a mother right now, and the "taking advantage" of---2 thoughts.
1) this is temporary, b/c at some point she will end things with you OR Om as she is not content to live this double life and that's obvious. IF not, YOU can end things so worrying that this "is your life forever" is unreasonable. You do have choice.
and 2) Due to your history I think it's hypocritical to discuss how SHE is taking advantage of You. Again you are saying things SHE could say about you just as well.
Lose that scorecard (b/c among other reasons, you are still NOT ahead on it).
Give the DB approach a real chance & Listen to your DB Coach.
And don't talk to our FIL about your wife's visits to OM....that has to be a bad bad idea...
Even last night, I’m the one who has to “hide the kids from mom’s late night trysts”. I almost wanted to say, "If they hear you leaving and ask where you're going, then that's your problem."
It’s like I’m supporting her A. I want to do anything but.
See above. I'm sorry for your pain, I hope it will make you into a more empathetic partner in the future. I also hope you'll discuss with your coach some possible ways to respond to her future inquiries.
I feel strongly that her attraction to OM is at least partly due to feeling attractive to him.
Next time she asks you a question that reveals such a vulnerable side to her (when she's naked is about as vulnerable a time that exists) please be more affirming and clear and specific.
Why you are attracted to her and what about her physically and emotionally and mentally, etc.
NOT the 'I love you so much b/c you are loving"..(which is like saying "I love you BECAUSE you love me" which makes no one feel special)
..be specific with the compliments, remark about traits and qualities in her that you admire or love. Can you do that if she gives you the chance again? She wants to know she'll be treated better and that you won't change back if she returns.
I felt sorry for her when I read that question.
Good luck MS, you are working hard and making changes that I truly think will benefit you more than you can tell at this point.
Last edited by Cristy; 09/16/1404:00 PM. Reason: per Mindsin request
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Me 47/W 34 T 16 M 13 No kids BD 6/2013 W asked that I move out 6/2013 I moved back and W is upset with this 12/2013 separate beds not much talking Served D Complaint 5/2014 W moved out 9/27/2014
