Feels like an eternity (Mindsin - part. 3)

[Eatsma]

Do you really feel as though you are becoming better communicators?

Haven't been attached to your thread, and I'm not really the best person to suggest this, but you don't sound terribly detached.

Hang in there. I'm in a similar-ish situation. I also need to work on boundary setting.

[mindsin]

MLP - thanks for chiming in.

Well, I do think we are becoming better at communicating more effectively. For example: we have the right conversations regarding our children -- where as before, they were simply negative verbal exchanges. A lot of that has come from me, as I've approached conversations with a more solutions-oriented approach (tip from DR).

I'm not terribly detached, but I am MUCH better than I was initially. I have been extremely dependent on my wife since the beginning and just to get to this point is a milestone for me. There are two things -- acting detached and being detached. I'm still struggling on the former.

[Eatsma]

I get it. I'm still working on that myself.

Good luck!

[mindsin]

Just done with DB coaching session #6

Key takeaways:

- Be patient. I am only 2.5 months into this.

- There are some positive things lining up for me (OM moving out of state in 3 weeks, W starting new job next month, 9-day family trip in November). Just let it play out. Don't get excited. Don't try to push the issue. Stay the course and don't pursue during this time.

- Feel free to express how I feel regarding her spending nights with the OM while I play "stay-at-home dad", but do so w/out presenting consequences. Make it about my feelings ONLY.

- Do not bring up upcoming birthday and 15 year wedding anniversary.

- If she continues to respond positively to a little physical touch (holding hand, hugs), continue. Back off if she shows even a little apprehension.

[bdub]

Ouch, I celebrated W's 40th birthday and our 15 yr anniversary. Oh well, not a LOT of damage done, the anniversary was awkward but we got through it and we actually had fun with the boys.

[mindsin]

Zero interest.

Then why in the heck are you in ANY contact with her? I mean, having an interest in her would be worse, I GUESS but the thing is, you must be testing your wife or trying to annoy her or help your fragile ego.

I don't get why you'd be in touch with ANY woman at this moment in your m!
No excuse for it.

What are you trying to prove? Your neediness? Have you NO friends to talk with? You know, MALE friends or female relatives?

Geez....this is ANOTHER example of something she'd never be "allowed" to do without you having a tantrum.

But you do it and expect her to have no response OR you want her to be jealous.??..and you seem to be hurt/pouting that she's not jealous. Hey buddy, you wore out the whole "jealousy" thing with your wife years ago. If she were the jealous type & didn't adapt to your reality (e.g., the escorts) - she'd have gone off the deep end long ago.

Sheesh....

25 - that was my previous thread you replied to, so I'll quote your response and answer it here.

First, I no longer have any contact with that woman. That stopped last week. Since then, my wife has asked me on two occasions whether I'm still talking to her.

Next, I think you're way off base with regard to my thoughts and feelings regarding this woman I was speaking to. I wasn't trying to prove anything, and no, I don't have that many friends that I can talk about my situation to (in fact, only two friends, and they give me advice which is in contrast to DB).

I don't know what you mean by "this is another example of something she'd never be allowed to do w/out me having a tantrum". You totally lost me there.

And jealousy plays no part in any of this.

My contact with that woman (actually she contacted me 1st) was 100% platonic and it was simply somebody to talk to who had gone through a similar event in life. It would have been no different had she been a man.

[mindsin]

You were painting her horribly, but that's NOT how she said it at all. Why not say, word for word what she said and not put any spin on it?.

Good point.

Also, the mind reading and projecting is tiresome for me. I keep having to remind myself about how you assume the worst of her based mostly on your own past behavior, which is SO unfair. You assume she's doing what you did to her, scheduling the trysts and all.

I'm not basing any of it on my past behavior. I am not assuming she's doing what I did to her. It's different.

so the "fact" that she's with OM is actually IN FACT, just your assumption? Oh Good grief...she 'never actually mentions him"....! How can you keep this game of victimhood up so well??

It's an assumption much like the assumption that the sun will rise tomorrow morning. She waits until the kids are asleep and waits until 10:00PM or later to leave the house. I am 100% certain the overnights are spent with the OM. If she is going anywhere else (e.g. out with friends), she always tells me the details.

I don't. Just Stop it. If you cannot see what YOU are doing here, I can. At worst, she's having an A-- but she is NOT throwing it in your face which you have made her out to be doing. I ASSUME you do this to make you look like a victim and her the worst of all cheaters...but I really don't know.

No, she is not throwing it in my face. But she's having an A, for certain. I'm not sure why you're trying to suggest otherwise. I would LOVE if it was otherwise!

To me, She seems to be TRYING to get along with you.

She's giving you the truth about where she's going - and showing you her calendar to prove it, so you can check it (not that you should) and that is why SHE is being transparent with you!

Agreed, she is trying to get along with me. I used to be consumed with wondering the reasons why she is doing so. Is she stringing me along? Keeping me sane so I don't hurt her, her career, or the OM? Is she genuinely concerned for my feelings and well-being? I stopped playing that guessing game long ago.

[MrBond]

"And jealousy plays no part in any of this."

Actually it does whether you intended it to or not. Based off of your past track record, you've shown that you can't be trusted one on one with women. At least that's what your W sees.

And your denials of no interest in this women falls into the same patterns that you had with the other women you had affairs with.

How do you think you would feel if you were your W? She would just see your relationship with the OW as the same old mindsin.

[mindsin]

Very good point MrBond.

Also, I should mention that this morning, she once again asked if I was dating. I said no. She said that I should.

I said that I don't think it's a good idea.

"If by chance you come back to me, I wouldn't want to be stuck in a relationship with another woman. That's a situation I don't want to be involved in."

I continued, "...Besides, I wouldn't know what to do anyways (dating)"

She replied, "You did pretty good with me."

I said, "No I didn't. I didn't know what I was doing back then."

She laughed, "Yeah, you really didn't."

[25yearsmlc]

You said you "had a backslide" when you reached out to her with your neediness. That's a fair assessment. But you kept on going...each time you contacted her was a step backwards - it's as if you were intentionally Undoing the DB work.

And now you seem upset and disappointed in the results. That's what baffles me. Why are you surprised? And please please do NOT forget the past!

bdub, she actually tells me that she is "spending an overnight" or "staying overnight". Nowadays, she never mentions his name, or where she's staying, etc. I assume that it is with the OM, and I never ask.


SIGH...at least state that you are doing this. Instead, You continue act as if she has TOLD you that she is "with OM tonight and tomorrow night' but she has never said that. And you have never asked her who she'll be with. But you paint her here, as some nastily slut who brazenly throws OM in your face.

Also I'm curious about what she called you after the 3rd or 4th time she caught you in an affair? (IF Anything) I think you called her a Wh--- or sl--. when you found out about the OM.

What about the first time she found out you paid for OW? Did she cry in front of you?

What did you tell her then, about the other women? Did you promise not to do it again? Did you blame her for not meeting your needs, or what? How did it "resolve" each time?

And didn't you just say this OM went back to his wife? How can that Not be a good thing? It sure isn't bad.


I am virtually certain that it is ALWAYS with the OM because when she spends days with her friends, she is very detailed about who she's going to be with, where, and what time, etc.

Then ask her, or don't. But until you KNOW, at least admit you are assuming. Meanwhile, what are you doing to become the better catch?

Tell me how you treat her and why she'd choose you over OM, as you are today.

And the 180s and the GAL? Any NEW subjects or topics or skills coming up for you? Career growth?

Did you look into the workshop in Philadelphia called "Essential Experience"? I think you'd benefit by an intensive 3.5 day workshop that forces you to look at yourself without rehearsing your answer, and figuring out how to change your life, regardless of what your w does/says/plans.

IT's very profound. Check out their website. Many other DBers have attended and all have said it's Life changing. Definitely faster than therapy once a week b/c that is good BUT can be fragmented.

I'm really concerned that you continue to be blind to your behavior as you seem unaware of the previous damage to her, which you caused.

Nothing your wife is doing, is being done in a vacuum. Put it all in context.
It'll make a lot more sense then, I think.

That's it for the moment. Good luck!