Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 10 11
#2483643 08/31/14 05:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Time for a new thread. Old one locked.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2480512&page=1

Check out my last posting on the previous thread. Ugg...


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
Hey pilot,
Just read your post about the phone call with the friend of WAW. Here are my thoughts:

1. Who is this "friend" and why is she getting involved? It seems strange to me that she would be the confidante of your W and then tell you what she said? Maybe I missed the part about that. Do you think she could have ulterior motives? I don't get why this friend would want to gossip about all this with you.

2. The reason your W supposedly gave for delaying the D could be true. On the other hand it could be an excuse on her part. She is not ready to do it, and that is the reason she is saying. That doesn't mean that is the real reason. And above all, her feelings could change. Whatever the reason, she isn't doing it.

3. All the other stuff I would mostly ignore as you said it is old news. Very old news. Who cares.

4. Interesting that she said she was thinking about being with you until you threw cold water on the whole thing. So yeah, I think you know what is happening.

You have a handle on the situation. None of this sounds like news to me. It probably just hurts a lot hearing it again and from someone else. But if you can, let it go. I think the only news you heard was that she wanted to go ahead with the D but was delaying to spare your feelings. That sounds like BS. If she was interested in sparing your feelings none of this would be happening, would it?

Chin up pilot! You are doing great. Let this slide off your back.
Hugs, LisaB

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Hey Lisa, Thanks for the post. The friend involved used to be my Ws best friend when we lived here (prior to our 2 year move in another state). She was a bridesmaid at our wedding. She has remained friends with my W. I ran into her while grocery shopping the other day. I do not recall how our conversation got started, but basically she had tons of unanswered questions. My W really did not go into any detail about herself with this friend, or any motives, and I guess that is why my Ws friend was so curious. Our phone conversation lasted a little over 2 hours...from 1:30 in the morning till 3:30ish. Most of these revelations came out towards the end, as she had clearly been holding them back and was begging me to never ever tell my W that she told me these things. I ultimately had told this friend of my W about the A and this friend said omg it all makes sense now. She said she and her H could see red flags all over the place when talking with her but never pushed the issue.

I honestly have no handle on my situation. I feel I am losing control of it more and more every day. I do not know why. I do not know if it is something internal, maybe the deadline of the D petition looming, her moving into her own place and getting herself established... I really do not know. I had such good detachment but something about last night just really got to my gut. I know the proper thing to do is to let it slide off my back as you say. And I know I should not have spent 2 hours talking R talk with one of her close friends. I guess it just felt good to actually talk about it...with anyone. I have not done so in a long time, and maybe it was just bottling up and needed to be released.

I am hoping this will pass soon as today I have really been in a funk...


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 955
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 955
Hi Pilot- I'm new to commenting on your thread but I just Wanted to say I wouldn't give too much credence to what your wife told her friend. She's not being honest with herself, and is probably spinning story to her friend as well. After all the friend wouldn't have had so many questions if your wife had been completely honest and forthcoming with her. But I'm sure it's still a little disorienting to hear. Sorry for the short reply, I hate typing on the phone.


2 Ds: 7 and 4
BD and Sep: 7/14
Divorce Final 2/16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 271
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 271
Pilot,
Remember that the emotions of a WAW are entirely crazy. The "logic" they go through is absolutely crazy. Eventually they come through it, maybe years down the line.

At that point, forgiveness is the act of accepting someone for who they are today. Hopefully she'll get to that point where she is acting sane enough today to be accepted.


Me: 35
Her: 33
D : 16
S : 9
Together: 14 years
Married: 12
She left 4/14/2014
Separated: 5/25/2014
OM Confirmed 7/2014
She filed 8/7/2014
I Filed 10/21/2014
Divorce final 2/12/2015
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
Pilot my friend, don't forget the rollercoaster! You are on one of those scary loop parts at the moment, but it will change. Let out a good scream and hang on for the ride!

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
raliced, yea, you are right. I know my W did not give the full story to this friend. It just really blew my mind at the reasoning. Thanks for posting and please chime in with advice at any time!

BigMac,

yea, I know their emotions are all over the place. and like I said I do not know why i am in a funk right now because really nothing new happened. Everything I was told was old news, even if some of it was new to me. nothing was a deal breaker out there. who knows when she comes out of the fog... just a frustrating, in a funk kinda day. thanks again for your support!


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
You are right Lisa. I just do not know what to do with this deadline looming...do I do nothing, or do I answer the petition and get things rolling? I know the answer, but I dont know the answer...


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 641
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 641
What happens if you don't answer the petition? Does it go to the judge who grants your wife everything she wants? Make sure you really know what happens or I would answer it. You don't know how the court reacts to being ignored.


Twisting on Life's Rope
Me53
W53
M20
D21 D19 D16
BD 2-2013
D final 1-2015
_________________________
"Dream about tomorrow, Live for today, Learn from yesterday"
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Lifes...

There are three possible outcomes at this point. She does nothing, I do nothing. 120 days after she filed, it disappears. Option 2, she serves me. I have 30 days I think to respond. Option 3, she does nothing, but I reply on my own. Sets the wheels in motion for a D.

I will be speaking with a *old state* attorney by phone this coming week, and meeting a *new state* attorney in person as well. I am going to weigh my options to see which gives me the best legal advantage, and add what I learn into my consideration on what to do.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Text messages between W and I.

Friday:

Me: If you want to bring the kids down for a beach day on Monday it is supposed to be better weather by then. Afterwards if you want you and I can go watch the Miami game somewhere.

Her: Ok, I will let you know

Sunday evening:

Me: Did you want to bring the kids to the beach tomorrow?

Her: No, I think I'll stay around here

Me: Ok. Can I come get the kids in the morning? (was not supposed to get them till after school Tuesday)

Her: Maybe breakfast at Cracker Barrel?

Me: I can just come get them

Her: What time?

Her: Were you thinking?

Me: Mid morning

Her: Ok text me before you leave


Definitely no friendly W right now. While I thought long and hard about how to answer the breakfast question, as much as i thought maybe it would be good to go and show her some PMA and be friendly, I decided to not be too available. After all, I took a chance and out of the blue asked her to a beach day. This was after I kinda shut the door on her for the week as I posted earlier.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
Ugh I hate this unfriendly sh!t. I think you handled it well.

Time to pull back a little as you said and let her have her space. Isn't this game fun?

Have a great time with the kiddos at the beach and hopefully she will hear about it from them and feel regretful that she didn't join.

It's funny because my WAH has been offering to help me move, to help me with things in the future and I have been considering it. However it would leave me tied to him, and I am anxious about that. Reading this text exchange makes me see that needing to be tied to him can be an opportunity for communication and spending time together, but can also be a source of rollercoaster annoyances.

Enjoy the beach pilot, I hope the weather will be fantastic!
Hugs, Lisa

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Thanks Lisa. I hate to admit it, but since it is the DB forum and I want to be as open as I can, 5 minutes after my W said she would not come down, I sent a text to LF (girl from the bday party) and I will be meeting her and her niece here at the beach for lunch then we will all be on the beach for the afternoon having a good time.

Hah...


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
Hey pilot, they say to GAL right? haha. Be careful but enjoy yourself! smile

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Im taking a page from the Lisa GAL flirtation handbook smile


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
Pilot are you taking your kids? Careful there!


M 54
W 48
T 19
M 17
D 12
Twin S 6
Twin S 6
Ilybnilwy 1/26/14
A discovered 2/3/14
D filed 7/25/14
Sumons served 8/14/14

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,008
G
gan Offline
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,008
Pilot, sorry to hear that you are going through a tough time at the moment. You're a beacon of strength on these forums (I've been following along but not chiming in). I do think you should be careful with the LF though, else those 3 options you outlined earlier may become just 1.


H 37 Me 36
Together 15 years
Married 5 years
No kids
BD Apr 2014
H moved out 2 Jun 2014
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
ganb8te, thanks for the compliment. I guess we are all susceptible to weakness during our journey.

There will be a group of people at the beach so its not like a date.

I picked my kids up this morning. W was pleasant, but something really weird. When we were making plans for me to get the kids, she mentioned meeting for breakfast. i said I would just come by her place and get them. This morning she sent me a text asking for a time frame when I would be there. I told her. I ended up getting there about 30 minutes early. RIght before I got there she sent me a text saying they would be out running errands. I met her at the Target about 1/2 mile from her house. She was just buying a small bag of plastic beads. She had all of the kids' stuff in her car. S3 said he had to go #2. I suggested we just take him to her place. She brushed that idea aside. I get the feeling she does not want me to see her place. Oh well.

One thing I have learned that at least in my case, the idea of planting the seed of another person and me moving on was not a good idea. Cheese less tunnel. So moving on from that idea.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 736
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 736
Hey Pilot!
Just getting caught up here on your sitch. I am, by no means, the best advice-giver here but I do believe that this, from the convo your WAW had with her friend, is something to think on...

2. She said my W explained to her that the reason she is dragging out the D by not serving me papers, and waiting 3-4 more months to file here in our new state is that she wants to spare my feelings and not be rude by rushing this D through quickly. She thinks it would be easier on me if it did not happen so quick. That she knew I was hurting and did not want to rub salt in the wound.

I think in this case you may want to act like you are cool with the divorce now. My WAW acts the same way, acts like she has this power to hurt me and likes to be "merciful." I wouldn't allow this mentality. In my opinion it gives WAW an upper hand, makes her think you are at her mercy. Again, maybe vets here will offer different advice but to me I think allowing WAW to be in a place where she thinks her actions can "spare you" of hurt is not good. I think it might knock her socks off if you started acting as if you don't want this thing delayed and drawn out forever.

I acted this way with my WAW, like I was at a place where although she knew I didn't initially want a D, that if it was decided it was going to happen, then make it happen fast so it doesn't drag out. I acted like I had accepted it and it wasn't the end of my world. My WAW was clearly was agitated after awhile by this. She would say things like "You know you could act like this bothers you at least a little bit! Instead you're all upbeat and ready for a new life!" She was annoyed that I was fine with the D even though I really wasn't. I just feel like if your WAW was comfortable acting like she is "sparing" you hurt while talking to her friend, that she feels like she has the upper hand and in a way has the power to hurt you. I don't think this is a good idea in my opinion. However as I said, the vets here may say otherwise but this is how I see this. I hope you keep your cool my friend. I'm rooting for you!


ME: 43 W:44
M 13 years on 5-5-01
T 18 years
BD 4/27/14
D papers served 5/5/14 (how appropriate a date)
WAW moved out 5/12/14
Papers filed 6/27/14
Divorce granted 07/17/14
Our marriage ends 11/17/14
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
Hey pilot, how was the beach?

Interesting about WAW seemingly not wanting you to see her place. I kind of act like this with my H so maybe she is just feeling angry or something and wants to mess with you. Or maybe her house is not clean and she doesn't want you to see that. Who knows.

I find the advice from ItHurts to be very interesting. The whole thing with this DB, at least for some of us, is acting as if we have moved on, don't care and are cool with the D situation. In my opinion, at least for some of us, this is the best way to behave. If we stay cool and unbothered it may make the WAS wonder why and maybe second guess their own decision. However, sometimes we may push that "I don't care" too far - in my case maybe my kissing adventure and in your case planting the seed of another woman. But if so we can only test the waters and then try something different right?

Keep on keeping on as they say. Try something different. Maybe NC for a minute?

Hope the beach was fun!
Hugs, Lisa

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 188
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 188
Pilot hang in there buddy.


Me 40 W 40
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 736
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 736
Originally Posted By: LisaB
Hey pilot, how was the beach?

Interesting about WAW seemingly not wanting you to see her place. I kind of act like this with my H so maybe she is just feeling angry or something and wants to mess with you. Or maybe her house is not clean and she doesn't want you to see that. Who knows.

I find the advice from ItHurts to be very interesting. The whole thing with this DB, at least for some of us, is acting as if we have moved on, don't care and are cool with the D situation. In my opinion, at least for some of us, this is the best way to behave. If we stay cool and unbothered it may make the WAS wonder why and maybe second guess their own decision. However, sometimes we may push that "I don't care" too far - in my case maybe my kissing adventure and in your case planting the seed of another woman. But if so we can only test the waters and then try something different right?

Keep on keeping on as they say. Try something different. Maybe NC for a minute?

Hope the beach was fun!
Hugs, Lisa


Yeah I mean as I said, I am by NO MEANS an expert as nothing I have done has worked so far. So keep that in mind. I've screwed up royally a couple of times, most recently getting into with my WAW in text a couple days ago when she started giving me crap about my lady friend. The conversation exploded and it probably wasn't a good thing. However yes, I DEFINITELY noticed that my WAW was not pleased one bit when she perceived that I had accepted the divorce and moved on. Of course all of this happened back in the June era of my sitch which is documented somewhere here in the 4 threads of my saga.

I mean there's always gray area and that's what complicates things. You can go too far with any DB technique. However in my personal experience, acting as if I accepted that my WAW wanted a D and then moving on to a "well since this is definitely what you want, let's get it over with A.S.A.P." attitude; it definitely got a reaction out of her.

Now as far as a lady friend goes, again, this has yielded me good results thus far with my WAW. She is certainly bothered by it and she makes that clear...again you can go read my most recent interaction with her in my last post in my own thread. So I think the threat of a LF can work in Pilot's favor. If nothing else, it's someone to talk to and something to take your mind off WAW. My only recommendation is to be COMPLETELY HONEST with lady friend, let her know you still have feelings for WAW, she will appreciate your honesty and may even, as in my case, "wait" for you. There is no way I would mislead my lady friend, she doesn't deserve that and honesty always impresses a woman...especially when it's honesty regarding something that one could easily belittle or outright lie about...such as still having feeling for WAW.

So again, I am not an expert here as I've backslid a few times in recent weeks, and none of this has worked for me so far because my WAW is still moving to FL and the divorce is still almost final in November. I am just offering advice based on my observations of my own WAW and she clearly was annoyed with me going along with everything and clearly annoyed I am seeing another woman. So I figure annoying her indirectly like this is something SHE needs to reflect on and it can't hurt for her to ask herself why she cares about these things if indeed she desires to be free of you, which is obviously what a divorce initiator wants. So heed my advice with caution and if a vet chimes in and says something different, I would definitely listen to them over me.

I am hoping things improve for you Pilot!

Last edited by ItHurts; 09/01/14 07:21 PM.

ME: 43 W:44
M 13 years on 5-5-01
T 18 years
BD 4/27/14
D papers served 5/5/14 (how appropriate a date)
WAW moved out 5/12/14
Papers filed 6/27/14
Divorce granted 07/17/14
Our marriage ends 11/17/14
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Originally Posted By: LisaB
Hey pilot, how was the beach?

Interesting about WAW seemingly not wanting you to see her place. I kind of act like this with my H so maybe she is just feeling angry or something and wants to mess with you. Or maybe her house is not clean and she doesn't want you to see that. Who knows.

I find the advice from ItHurts to be very interesting. The whole thing with this DB, at least for some of us, is acting as if we have moved on, don't care and are cool with the D situation. In my opinion, at least for some of us, this is the best way to behave. If we stay cool and unbothered it may make the WAS wonder why and maybe second guess their own decision. However, sometimes we may push that "I don't care" too far - in my case maybe my kissing adventure and in your case planting the seed of another woman. But if so we can only test the waters and then try something different right?

Keep on keeping on as they say. Try something different. Maybe NC for a minute?

Hope the beach was fun!
Hugs, Lisa


Hey Lisa. My take on it was she probably bought a bunch of new stuff (I know she bought a new tv even though all of our tvs are right here and she could have had any one of them) and new bedroom stuff. I figured she did not want me to see how much money she had spent because in a few days she is going to want some from me.

ItHurts did offer some interesting advice, and I will address it in the next post. True, we may push the I dont care angle too much. Maybe I did just that. I just felt nothing was really happening prior, and given now that she has her new place, and getting all set up for a new life without me, more of the same was not going to yield any different results.

The beach was tons of fun. Was really nice to get the kiddos back. We had a long fun day!!!


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Originally Posted By: ItHurts
Hey Pilot!
Just getting caught up here on your sitch. I am, by no means, the best advice-giver here but I do believe that this, from the convo your WAW had with her friend, is something to think on...

2. She said my W explained to her that the reason she is dragging out the D by not serving me papers, and waiting 3-4 more months to file here in our new state is that she wants to spare my feelings and not be rude by rushing this D through quickly. She thinks it would be easier on me if it did not happen so quick. That she knew I was hurting and did not want to rub salt in the wound.

I think in this case you may want to act like you are cool with the divorce now. My WAW acts the same way, acts like she has this power to hurt me and likes to be "merciful." I wouldn't allow this mentality. In my opinion it gives WAW an upper hand, makes her think you are at her mercy. Again, maybe vets here will offer different advice but to me I think allowing WAW to be in a place where she thinks her actions can "spare you" of hurt is not good. I think it might knock her socks off if you started acting as if you don't want this thing delayed and drawn out forever.

I acted this way with my WAW, like I was at a place where although she knew I didn't initially want a D, that if it was decided it was going to happen, then make it happen fast so it doesn't drag out. I acted like I had accepted it and it wasn't the end of my world. My WAW was clearly was agitated after awhile by this. She would say things like "You know you could act like this bothers you at least a little bit! Instead you're all upbeat and ready for a new life!" She was annoyed that I was fine with the D even though I really wasn't. I just feel like if your WAW was comfortable acting like she is "sparing" you hurt while talking to her friend, that she feels like she has the upper hand and in a way has the power to hurt you. I don't think this is a good idea in my opinion. However as I said, the vets here may say otherwise but this is how I see this. I hope you keep your cool my friend. I'm rooting for you!


I hear what you are saying, and I have really thought about this course of action. Basically it would require me to answer the petition, and act as if...

It would in essence be a giant bluff. If this was a poker game, the cards I am holding are not winning cards. The logic is sound though.

Maybe a vet will chime in... I have probably until Friday before any other interaction with my W occurs (other than her sending a text to facetime with the kids.) Friday night S5 has a new parents BBQ followed by the high school football game for his school. I am sure she will want to attend as well. So at least I have some time to consider my next move.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
Pilot, sounds like a great time w kids at beach. I bet mom will ask them how it was, who was there etc...I know my wife will say to me how come I get to have all the fun with kids, boating, cabin, etc.. I tell her look your more than welcome to come next time and leave it at that. I know it's tuff with D paperwork and time frames etc. I try and think positive about it just being a piece of paper.Although an expensive one! However it shouldn't stop you from DBing.


M 54
W 48
T 19
M 17
D 12
Twin S 6
Twin S 6
Ilybnilwy 1/26/14
A discovered 2/3/14
D filed 7/25/14
Sumons served 8/14/14

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
igit, I have no idea what my W does with the kids when she has them. I dont ask her, dont ask the kids, and do not look at her fb page (I still have her blocked) to find out. If she wants to follow up on me, well, that is strange... Regardless, she was invited to the beach today and she chose not to. No big deal..but it kills the 'why do you get to have fun with them argument.'

Now when she gets a job, that is when things will get interesting and when she REALLY finds out how difficult being a single parent is.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
It just occurred to me, if you put the pieces together from over the summer, it is very likely my W thinks I am already moving on to another W. There was the Bday party invite, the time in the car when S5 said to her on facetime we were going to meet her, the bday party of hers I went to a few weeks ago, and the 'fake' bit at lunch with my W a week ago.

Not trying to mind read and say she HAS made this assumption, just saying that looking back, if you put those pieces together, it is not hard to come to that conclusion.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
Pilot, there is no question about that. My w started her job a few weeks ago. I am here to help with kids and house, she is getting up at 530 and gone by 6.she is wiped out by 8pm in bed sleeping. I can't figure out why she asked me before taking job if I would commit to taking kids and then 2 weeks later I get served. I haven't complained and she hasn't asked me what I was going to do with summons since the night I got it. We have been getting along well. I just can't figure out what she is thinking. I would think she realizes how hard it is now..anyway hang in there Pilot, let her get that job and be independent and see how much free time she really has. This is hard stuff we are dealing with. I look at my freinds that are in good m and think if my w and I can get thru this and somehow reconnect it would be alot better then our 1st m together


M 54
W 48
T 19
M 17
D 12
Twin S 6
Twin S 6
Ilybnilwy 1/26/14
A discovered 2/3/14
D filed 7/25/14
Sumons served 8/14/14

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Quote:
I look at my freinds that are in good m and think if my w and I can get thru this and somehow reconnect it would be alot better then our 1st m together


A very very meaningful statement right there.

Try not to figure out why your W did what she did regarding job and kids. She obviously had a plan from the beginning. But odds are you will never really guess what it was, and if you actually found out, you would probably be surprised and not have thought of it on your own.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: LisaB
Hey pilot,
Just read your post about the phone call with the friend of WAW. Here are my thoughts:

1. Who is this "friend" and why is she getting involved? It seems strange to me that she would be the confidante of your W and then tell you what she said? Maybe I missed the part about that. Do you think she could have ulterior motives? I don't get why this friend would want to gossip about all this with you.


I Echo this ^^^ x 1000...it's NOT relevant. This "source" is the same woman who is in a lousy m herself, which she shares with your w (And YOU)....um, okay...AND she told you what her hubby said, which he had NO basis for saying. Why would she pass that little gem onto you? ThInk about that...

and her h said "HE bet your wife had had an affair"...this man had NO FACTUAL basis for that allegation!!! But h boldly hurled it out. I'd never answer either of their calls again and I sure as heck would put ZERO stock in their 'insights"....talk about projecting their own problems onto someone else.

Do you realize how bad you made HER H look? And how bad your wife made HER look?? (remember, the "friend" whined and bitterly complained about her h, to your wife, who NEVER said a word to her about you....IF THAT IS TRUE, then the rest makes zero sense....your wife showed loyalty to you and they could not handle that

No one on DB should ever make a decision based on triple hearsay, and such biased "opinions"....

.


2. The reason your W supposedly gave for delaying the D could be true. On the other hand it could be an excuse on her part. She is not ready to do it, and that is the reason she is saying. That doesn't mean that is the real reason. And above all, her feelings could change. Whatever the reason, she isn't doing it.

3. All the other stuff I would mostly ignore as you said it is old news. Very old news. Who cares.

AMEN


4. Interesting that she said she was thinking about being with you until you threw cold water on the whole thing. So yeah, I think you know what is happening.

I saw that as your w wanting you to know she "would have ---but for your rejection of her", which also is inconsistent with the claims the other "Friend" is making.

Geez....when it's this confusing, pay no attention til you hear it from the horses mouth and even then....only part



You have a handle on the situation. None of this sounds like news to me. It probably just hurts a lot hearing it again and from someone else.

for ego reasons it hurts more when it comes from others, and I get that. But in reality it has even LESS validity. Don't forget that, okay?


But if you can, let it go. I think the only news you heard was that she wanted to go ahead with the D but was delaying to spare your feelings. That sounds like BS. If she was interested in sparing your feelings none of this would be happening, would it?

Chin up pilot! You are doing great. Let this slide off your back.
Hugs, LisaB



She's not ready to say she's not ready to divorce. She's not ready to say she is confused. But what else could be made of her comment (AND Behavior which you yourself witnessed and said "Could have gotten physical")

other than SHE IS CONFUSED and that means she's got mixed feelings. And for most of us, that would be GOOD NEWS. And please consider

Losing those "Friends" and don't bet on their marriage lasting 3 more years (assuming fidelity is required).


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
Pilot

among other things you said, is that you are the type to "leave no stone unturned"...And for me, you were turning stones over which you knew were Not of the DB approach

and it's not something I'm a big fan of (Not b/c this is the 'Only" way, but just that I figure one approach at a time, which is to be given the full treatment, before switching to another one)....b/c IMO mixing the methods tends to confuse the results and the parties...

ANYHOW, what about you hiring a DB coach? I mean, if you really want to turn every stone over and look, that ought to be pretty high on the list. IF you have one, run this by them.

IF not, why not?

I highly recommend them.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: pilot
You are right Lisa. I just do not know what to do with this deadline looming...do I do nothing, or do I answer the petition and get things rolling? I know the answer, but I dont know the answer...



what possible advantage is there to "get things rolling"? The limbo won't end very much sooner and you'll always wonder if...

Make sure it's not your ego or wounded pride factoring in here....(if you doubt it, then double check b/c of course it's somewhere in there and I see it a bit more than you do, in fact I see it here a lot, mixed in with chronic impatience.

Like I said before, your wife put up with your campaign, your "injured medicated self" (which I think you greatly understate the negative impact of)

for longer than you've been here....think about that, okay?

And when it's your heart and your love and your faith in God and your stated values (which I know this sorely tests) that guide you,

then I think the answer will be clearer.


FWIW, I do NOT believe your wife is "sparing" you your feelings by waiting. That simply makes no sense to me.



M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Thanks 25. Yea, her friend and H are really a strange bunch. While W and I were married 'happily' W would frequently tell me that this 'friend' was always looking for something to be wrong in our marriage because we were just too happy with eachother and did not fight. W used to say that this friend was either jealous or just wanted something to be wrong with us to make her feel better about her own M.

So my rational mind pays no attention it. It was just for some reason, it really felt like my gut was being ripped out. Maybe you are right about the ego thing. I cannot think of a better reason...

As for W not saying a negative thing, neither of us EVER did that to anyone. We never spoke negative about the other to anyone, even our parents. Which is one major reason our S/D came as such a HUGE surprise to everyone (me included).

On the W delaying/letting the petition expire front, I guess I could mind read the positive side...she is confused. And it may very well be true. I met with 2 *new state* attorneys today, and both agreed filing in this *new state* if it came to that would be beneficial to me. Even though they are not lawyers of *old state* they said they could really see no advantage to rushing it through based on what they knew of other state laws. So I guess that takes away the 'legal' pressure to answer the petition before it expires this month. That gives me until Dec. 1 before another petition can be filed. Although both STRONGLY advised that I be the one to file in this state, as filing first has advantages.

Yea, I guess you are also right that all in all, her being confused is a good thing. It is a limbo thing (not good) but it certainly is not a death sentence. I really have no intention of hanging out with the other people. Even when we lived here, I never did. Her H used to work for my development company (contract, not employee) and we had to let him go for poor performance. I always thought they were nice enough people though, just not much in common with them. My W was her friend because she was one of the first people she met when she moved to my town (4 months prior to meeting me)

Thanks again 25. I feel I should go do something really dumb to get a 2x4 from ya smile

btw, igit was looking for you and your wisdom. might want to head over to his sight. he and I have very similar situations going on and he could use ya.

Thanks agian...


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: pilot
Text messages between W and I.

Friday:

Me: If you want to bring the kids down for a beach day on Monday it is supposed to be better weather by then. Afterwards if you want you and I can go watch the Miami game somewhere.

Her: Ok, I will let you know

Sunday evening:

Me: Did you want to bring the kids to the beach tomorrow?

Her: No, I think I'll stay around here


I get why THIS^^^ disappoints you. I do. I would not read a lot into it, but sure, I get why it's not "positive'...


Me: Ok. Can I come get the kids in the morning? (was not supposed to get them till after school Tuesday)

Her: Maybe breakfast at Cracker Barrel?



THIS^^^^ IS A POSITIVE>...I understand why you chose to pull back - but why are you pretending nothing positive happened?


Me: I can just come get them

Her: What time?

Her: Were you thinking?

Me: Mid morning

Her: Ok text me before you leave


Definitely no friendly W right now. While I thought long and hard about how to answer the breakfast question, as much as i thought maybe it would be good to go and show her some PMA and be friendly, I decided to not be too available. After all, I took a chance and out of the blue asked her to a beach day. This was after I kinda shut the door on her for the week as I posted earlier.



To be fair, couldn't SHE write almost the same things you have written here about your reactions to her? Seriously.

You guys are in some stand off now waiting for the other one to make the first 4-6 moves....which is a killer position in marriages.

So many people do that and ask me why THEY must "make the first move(s).

to which I reply, "because you are here, (on a marriage saving site) and your spouse is not.

You must make the first 1001 move....and maybe the 1002nd too...."

"



M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
25, I had actually been considering a DB coach (finally) these past few days. Mostly because for the first time since this whole DBing thing started, I really feel at a loss as to what to do next. I got the NC, I got the GAL, and I got the 180. Once things turned positive, I had no clue. Guidance would probably be beneficial (ok, certainly, not probably).

As for the 'get the ball rolling' yea, that was wounded pride/ego or something similar. My own emotions are a roller coaster. I have been on the free fall part lately. Had my eyes closed.. Perhaps I overly justified my position by looking at the legal side.

Like you I do not buy into the 'spare my feelings' angle either. It makes no sense given how every other action does not spare my feelings. I could dwell on it for hours/days, but I'd never guess right, so I just left it alone. I had quietly hoped someone like sandi who is intimately familiar with WAW thoughts/feelings would have an insight, if for no other reason to help calm my mind on it. But even then, it would be guess work.

As for the cracker barrel invitation, yea, I agree it most likely was a positive (although I think I pointed out how when pieced with other interactions it could have very well been a negative.) That being said, at the time I got it, my assumption was it was not a negative. I really had wished I had time to post here and get advice because I was super conflicted on how to answer this. In the end, I went with the 'do not be too available' approach given she just shot down MY invitation. I definitely saw positives for taking the invitation, I just did not want to seem too eager. Again...another reason for DB coach time...

And yes, you are right, she could probably very well write the same things. And I do see the POV of a standoff (although I had never considered that). I think I have been experimenting (maybe incorrectly) on how to 'appear' as if I am moving on without her. However, i am finding it hard to find the balance of appearing to move on and not doing things that come across as 'demands' or actions to illicit a response. Not sure if that makes sense...

I get it that I have to be the one to make the moves. It just becomes hard to do that and NOT come across as pursuing. I wish I knew the proper application of interactions. I simply do not. And I end up guessing. Maybe I should keep a quarter on me and just flip it every now and then. Can't hurt...


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
Pilot

At this point on your journey, (other than the inward journey, which I sincerely hope you will continue taking)

you are operating without any instruments now, and you can't see your altitude.

You really must Hire a coach so you can see where you are going and to figure out a way to "land this plane,"

or if need be, how and when to bail.

Make sense?


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
Pilot 25 is rt on the DB coaching. I have used a woman named Denise. She is very helpful,will give you some really good advice on how to talk with your waw. Just like a vet but cost a few bucks, well worth every penny, no matter what happens.


M 54
W 48
T 19
M 17
D 12
Twin S 6
Twin S 6
Ilybnilwy 1/26/14
A discovered 2/3/14
D filed 7/25/14
Sumons served 8/14/14

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
WOW!

This advice from 25 brought tears to my eyes. It could have been written to me.

"To be fair, couldn't SHE write almost the same things you have written here about your reactions to her? Seriously.
You guys are in some stand off now waiting for the other one to make the first 4-6 moves....which is a killer position in marriages.
So many people do that and ask me why THEY must "make the first move(s).
to which I reply, "because you are here, (on a marriage saving site) and your spouse is not.
You must make the first 1001 move....and maybe the 1002nd too...."

25, you are wise. Pilot, listen. I know I am. We both might be dealing with our own wounded/overgrown egos I think... smile

Hugs, LisaB

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,428
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,428
I'm trying to take 25yrs advice to heart too, and not ignore the positive signs I see, no matter how small, just because they are not big enough or quick enough. ...

Pilot, another shout out here for a coach. I've gotten feedback from them that I haven't gotten anywhere else, and while the vets are super super valuable, this is not their job. With a coach you get a whole hour dedicated just to you. Take good notes and that advice will last you a while. GL.


Me 38 H 40
D 3
T 8 M 6
BD 10/2013

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Originally Posted By: LisaB
WOW!

This advice from 25 brought tears to my eyes. It could have been written to me.

"To be fair, couldn't SHE write almost the same things you have written here about your reactions to her? Seriously.
You guys are in some stand off now waiting for the other one to make the first 4-6 moves....which is a killer position in marriages.
So many people do that and ask me why THEY must "make the first move(s).
to which I reply, "because you are here, (on a marriage saving site) and your spouse is not.
You must make the first 1001 move....and maybe the 1002nd too...."

25, you are wise. Pilot, listen. I know I am. We both might be dealing with our own wounded/overgrown egos I think... smile

Hugs, LisaB


Ok 25, here is a question I am sure Lisa would want to know the answer to since we are both kinda in the same spot on this. HOW do you know when or even IF to make the first 4-6 moves (I understand that was more an expression than specifics). My understanding of your statement, revisiting my previous text conversation is I should have accepted the breakfast invitation. In the future, I should make another invitation like I did for a beach day. If it gets turned down (and let's assume there is no return offer on her part), I brush it aside and at a later date, make another. And to repeat '4-6' times even if they are refused and no return offers? I get what you are saying (if this is in fact what you are saying) but how is that not considered pursuing, or even over pursuing? Or did your statement rest on the idea of a counter offer on her part being made? In other words, do not get upset she would not have dinner with you when she offered to have lunch?


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Carried over from ItHurts thread...

Originally Posted By: sandi2
Quote:
So sandi, how does one break that cycle? It seems to be where I am stuck at as i am sure many others here are. As you know my W has not even served me the D petition and has said she will let it expire and refile in a few months. (sorry for the semi hijack IH).

So how does a LBS take charge or at least in some small way, regain control? (not my first choice in words, but cannot think of another)




Pilot I know you have tossed around the idea of filing for the D. My advice is don't do it now. I think you may be ready to drop the rope. I believe it is almost impossible to go dark when co-parenting, so I would recommend trying that method.

By you asking about breaking the cycle, it hints you are wanting to do something to get a reaction from her. If so, then you aren't ready to drop things. And to hopefully answer your question, I truly believe it works for the LBH and it causes the WAW to see that she doesn't get to call the shots any longer.

I know what you mean about not choosing the right words. I have used the word "indifference" when trying to describe the LBH in his role of dropping the rope. Not a great word to use b/c of its negative tone. However, some men seem to get the picture better with that description. The point is that you move forward with life. You feel stuck b/c you are waiting on her.......to see what she does. Stop waiting and watching. Stop making "your" life all about her. She can't push your buttons if you don't care what she does/thinks/says/etc. And when she sees it doesn't matter, then it usually breaks that cycle, one way or the other.

You don't announce to her what you are doing. That would be shooting yourself in the foot. You don't explain what you're doing. You don't sit her down and have a long talk. You just start doing it by eliminating some of the things you are doing now. No more dinner dates or spending days as a family. You start acting as if you are D. You still get your kids and stay involved in their lives, but not hers. Isn't that what you would do if you were D and remarried? She would too. So, pretend this practice. (Sorry if that sounds offensive to anyone.)



This is where I get confused/lost at this point in DB. On one hand, 25 is suggesting I extend myself a bit more to break the limbo of what could very well be my W and I 'waiting' for the other. This would entail being, lets call it, cautiously pursuing. On the other hand, sandi is suggesting dropping the rope as a way to break the cycle I am in.

Now to be fair, both were referring specifically to separate scenarios, hence the different answers. Yet that still does not reconcile that there are 2 polar opposite courses of action. One has me stopping non essential activities (family outings), keeping up only parenting responsibilities. The other has me not giving up simply because one invitation was not accepted, and to keep an open mind to together time.

On the bright side, I got a DB coach session package today. So I will at least have that going for me...

Arrggg....

Oh, and sandi, it seems I will be following the pathway of your advice in not answering the petition on my own.

Last edited by pilot; 09/04/14 04:12 AM.

Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,077
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,077
Pilot,

Your DB Coach's insight supersedes ANY advice on this board because they know more specifics and are speaking to you directly in the moment.

I can't wait to hear their suggestion.

You're in a tough spot but I know you'll go the right path.

I believe in you.


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
D: 7
Bomb: 6/30/14
Separation: 8/11/14

Be strong enough to let go and wise enough to wait for what you deserve.
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Originally Posted By: Ss06

You're in a tough spot but I know you'll go the right path.

I believe in you.


Well, you've got a 50% chance of being right! smile

Thanks ss smile smile


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,077
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,077
Originally Posted By: pilot
Originally Posted By: Ss06

You're in a tough spot but I know you'll go the right path.

I believe in you.


Well, you've got a 50% chance of being right! smile

Thanks ss smile smile


LOL! True but I'm betting on you.


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
D: 7
Bomb: 6/30/14
Separation: 8/11/14

Be strong enough to let go and wise enough to wait for what you deserve.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
Originally Posted By: Ss06

Your DB Coach's insight supersedes ANY advice on this board because they know more specifics and are speaking to you directly in the moment.


I would qualify this with this caveat:

DB coaches are humans too and they do get it wrong sometimes. One needs to look at DB coaches as your advisor in the process. There have been times when posters write what their coaches advise and I did not necessarily agree with them in certain situations/issues.

Taken in totality, DB Coaches are a very valuable resource and it is great to take advantage of their services to aid you along the process.

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Quote:
DB coaches are humans too and they do get it wrong sometimes.


Oh NOW you tell me...after I paid...

Thanks for chiming in Wonka. smile


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
Pilot DB coaches better investment then L


M 54
W 48
T 19
M 17
D 12
Twin S 6
Twin S 6
Ilybnilwy 1/26/14
A discovered 2/3/14
D filed 7/25/14
Sumons served 8/14/14

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,500
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,500
We're all human and no one can read the WAS's mind so if paying the DB coach was your way of ensuring that you did everything you possibly could to repair the R, then it doesn't matter whether it pays off in a reconciliation or peace of mind. Either way you get ROI. Same with L.

Wish we weren't in this place, but I know I'm better off for facing reality and moving my life on my own path, so I guess it is what it is. I certainly feel more empowered and less stuck than I did before, and hopefully you do too.

Best to you! (and if you have more of the fantastic guy advice you've been giving Lisa, I wouldn't mind seeing you on my thread. smile )


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Originally Posted By: Maybell
(and if you have more of the fantastic guy advice you've been giving Lisa, I wouldn't mind seeing you on my thread. smile )


Maybell, thanks for the positive words! I am not always the best at following every person's threads consistently. Yours is one I do try and follow. But sometimes there is SOOOOO much (hahaha) on yours in a short period that a question you asked that I want to answer is already a page or two in the history folder. smile smile

Please know you can always pop in on mind and ask me to visit yours or simply ask anything you wish to know right here on my thread. I never feel like anyone is hijacking...as so much of what we are going through is applicable to others here as well.

Thanks again for the sweet words!


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
My answer was directed at your idea of filing for D in order to get unstuck. My advice is not to file for a D to break the cycle. I would drop the rope before deciding to go straight to D.

When I read back over my post, I could see it might not be clear what I was saying. And I saw a typo, which should have said I do NOT recommend going completely dark b/c of the children. But dropping the rope could work. It is better than divorce.

25yrs and I usually agree about most things. I think we each give advice from the perspective of our own personal experiences or what we've observed in others (as most people do). Being a WAW, I may be less tolerant toward the WAS.......? IDK, I am not trying to speak for her. Just bear in mind that we come from opposite sides of the fence in our own stitches, and realize there may be variation in what we say...or how it's said. smile


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Thanks sandi. I got what you meant about dropping the rope vs. filing D. And it does make sense, as it is much easier to file later vs try and take a filing back.

Having kids definitely does make limiting contact difficult. I suppose cutting out all family dinners, outings, etc. is doable. But even then not completely. For example tonight we have a 'new parent' bbq and football game for my S5 school which we will both be attending. Plus both kids start soccer in a week and I am positive we will both be there for all practices and games. I suppose it is still a way of showing my good side while at the same time having none of the negative blowback from trying to arrange time together.

Thanks again sandi...


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: sandi2
My answer was directed at your idea of filing for D in order to get unstuck. My advice is not to file for a D to break the cycle. I would drop the rope before deciding to go straight to D.

When I read back over my post, I could see it might not be clear what I was saying. And I saw a typo, which should have said I do NOT recommend going completely dark b/c of the children. But dropping the rope could work. It is better than divorce.

Absolutely^^^.


25yrs and I usually agree about most things. I think we each give advice from the perspective of our own personal experiences or what we've observed in others (as most people do). Being a WAW, I may be less tolerant toward the WAS.......?

I LIKE posting along with sandi b/c I think you'll get different perspectives without a sense of competition or an adversarial discussion. She's a valuable resource and I always love reading her suggestions. Note that we usually DO agree on the big issues. The only somewhat consistent difference in approach is with the WAWs b/c I think with a h who is an MD and a workaholic, I know what it feels like to be a neglected wife. I DID consider being a WAW about 20 years ago, but came out of that time on my own. More about that later.

I'll describe how I saw my life then, (and to some extent I still see it that way) but I'm not sad about my life now. I THINK Pilot's wife would relate to much of this...

I'm Not whining or saying I had it so much harder than others. I am explaining another point of view. And how it felt back then.

Anyhow, my H was NOT intending to be a physician when we married, so it's not as if we knew ahead of time what was coming.

I don't think we really knew what it'd be like to have Relentlessly long hours, for so many years. When h was on call it was even worse.

He'd work his butt off (and possibly felt like a martyr "working FOR the family", or telling himself that). I recall counting the hours he'd spent at the hospital one week and it was close to 90. That isn't counting the studying he did while at home either. And not a rare week. Just one of the many with insane hours.

I WAS ALONE all those nights. H was "working" So he was AWOL, awol when I won an award, he'd miss me performing onstage, missedmost of the biggest court argument I ever had (went to the Supreme Court) and I got myself to the hospital for childbirth, (H was on call. What are the odds?) AND when I had pneumonia, and when I herniated a disk.

I felt I was raising our kids alone, like a single parent -but one who can't date.

That's a lot of lonely nights for a young woman in her prime
... and the next day IF my h did get to come home, he'd be exhausted and need to sleep...

And these hours and days includes all holidays (at one point he'd been on call in the hospital 9 Thanksgivings in a row, missed many Christmases or Christmas Eve, and New Years, and I mean MANY of them)....and it was unrelenting, and it lasted for years....
Our son was 8 weeks old when medical school began...I was in law school and then worked full time, with 2 of our kids.

For a lot of years there was a significant imbalance in the division of labor...that's just a fact. (Hiring a housekeeper even twice a month really does reduce stress, if you can afford it.)

Then to have h arrive home in a tense mood or to see him glance around the home for flaws (just as his training taught him to look at the monitors in an operating room--searching for problems/errors, flaws) well that does not belong in a marriage or family.

It just really feels lousy when you were working a full day at a hard job and then taking care of the kids, making dinner, bathing them, and wanting to talk to your bff. But When you yourself have been lonely and stressed with the kids, and your own job,

and your spouse finally arrive home -NOT to assist you with dinner, or give you a break with the kids, (or the option of either), or even to really ask about your day, b/c he is so exhausted that he literally falls asleep at the dinner table. OR he's irritable...so NOT rewarding. We rarely had date nights, needless to say b/c when he was free and "awake enough", the kids needed to get to know HIM. Our older d was afraid of him til she was 5, b/c she did not know him. cry (That's a quote from her back then. Heartbreaking).

I honestly wondered how long I could hang in there, and if it was always going to be this hard, but if it's not always going to stink, when would it improve? Can I make it til then?

Add to that the stress of us both being in the military with kids, AND me having to go to war in Iraq. A free floating angst surrounded me 24/7, for a few years.

So, after years of that a very handsome, (as in, Kevin Costner at age 30 HANDSOME) & attentive single man joined my office...

Yes I gave an Affair some thought. At the time, I was lonely and felt neglected, and I saw no end in sight. I rationalized my desire to have an affair, although it did not come about.

Pilot, In some ways, sandi and I had very similar scenarios in that our needs were NOT being met by our h's by a long shot, and an OM was lurking...
And yet neither of us left our marriages, and neither of us slept with OMs.

I confided in some close friends and sisters, and they'd ask the real questions, like "how will your self image be affected if you want to 'date' while you're married?", or "what will your kids' faces look like when you tell them someone else will be their 'dad' now"? I mean those are show stopping questions.

Her h learned of her EA and mine did not. I can't say what Sandi would have done if no one ever found out her plans....but If my h had learned of it AND IF he reacted in anger or with a wounded ego that lashed out at me, that would have been the straw that broke the camel's back.)

If h tried to shame me, or expose me, I truly believe I'd have filed. Why? 2 reasons, first, I already justified my attraction to the OM at the time AND 2) B/c once it's out, I'd have to justify it more, which corners one into making a move toward divorce OR saying you were wrong.

Since I felt so lonely and in effect, rejected (meaning I felt less important than his patients) I think I could have divorced him then and justified it, especially if he threw it in my face. But my guess is he'd have reacted better than that, but he'd have been very hurt. Anyhow, in my case, an affair could not last long UNLESS it was going to end my marriage.

Meaning, a casual 'physical only' affair, is not something I personally can do. So an affair on my end, that lasts more than a few months would likely lead to a divorce and breaking up my family.

As that reality sank in, I went to the chaplain and a shrink and worked out how NOT to have an affair. (I began doing theater b/c it felt passionate, was a passionate outlet for me that was also safe for my marriage).

I imagine that Pilot's wife could relate to a lot of this^^>.... His campaign's hours were a bit like training in medical school or the residency. At the end of the campaign, there was a big disappointment for both.

Then Pilot had an injury and endured a long recovery, during which time I assume his wife took on all or most of the childcare, household chores and finances, the other family duties and everything else that was important to her that was ongoing...as for HER NEEDS? Not met by a long shot for a long time.

Pilot has touched briefly on an issue related to the medications he took, which I sense means some mediocre (or worse) treatment to his wife. I think Pilot said he may not have been himself...but his references to it are short and vague.

That^^^ is a lot for a woman to endure. Not sure what her love languages are, but my guess is her tank was empty for some time.

Pilot entered the marriage as a strong confident financially successful guy. A "provider and protector"... That may be what she expected him to be for good. When she saw the changes in him, no doubt it confused and concerned her. She did tell him she was not happy.

In sum, His wife did more & supported more than many wives could or would. (And for a longer time than Pilot has endured his present ordeal.)

That is my take on the way she came to want out of the M.

Pilot says once upon a time they were very much in love and connected at a deep level. If that is true for her as Pilot says it is for him, those memories and feelings WILL resurface in time,

IF there are no more painful experiences are laid over them.
That is why she is sending mixed signals, in my opinion. She's confused b/c she HAS mixed feelings.

I'm also not convinced that Pilot has a grip on his present course of action. What what 180s and changes HE wants to make, and is working on?

What is different about him now, and thus what would be different in a marriage to him NOW?


The frequent questions about dating OWs or see other women and just the comments about how he so values their attention, is hard for me to hear, given the number of nights I've spent alone (NOT even counting the deployments overseas, for almost a year).

Being without a partner is not the same as being alone. And being alone is not hell. Pilot, you seem to defend yourself a lot and deflect, rather than just hearing the feedback and processing it. That Just makes changing your ways a lot harder b/c so much energy is going into putting up the walls.


IDK, I am not trying to speak for her. Just bear in mind that we come from opposite sides of the fence in our own stitches, and realize there may be variation in what we say...or how it's said. smile


I think getting our points of view WHEN they differ, may confuse you, but take what you can from each, find what feels authentic or balance the approaches. At least you'll have covered a lot of bases.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 188
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 188
I like that you are thinking of using cation with pursuing your W. I am doing that but still I have no clue what she is thinking. I think you have to remember she fell in love with you so what were you doing then.


Me 40 W 40
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Extremely disappointed in my W tonight. It was a cookout/football game at my S5 new school for new parents. We decided we would both take the kids. The game started at 7, the cookout at 6. I got my times mixed up and realized it on the way. Instead of meeting her at the school at 6, I ended up arriving at her place (close to the school at 445. Ironically I thought I would be late...but a drive that takes an hour in the morning took just over 30 minutes. At any rate, I decided I would just go to her place, as she had picked the kids up from school and I had a change of clothes for them. She was just pulling out, and said she was off to a fast food place with a playground. She was going to sit there for an hour. Whether or not she was meeting someone there (she jumped on her phone as she was pulling out) or was still not wanting me to come inside her place, I had no idea. I did have to pee really bad, and asked if I could go in. She tried to refuse, and I said if you dont want me to go in, that is fine, I just really need to pee. She made a dramatic sigh about having to get out of the car and how she did not want to turn it off, and now she has to get the kids out. Apparently I cannot get the keys and go pee on my own. When we were inside, she told me to use the kids bathroom, and waited outside the door. Then herded me out. Wow...

Anyways, back to why I was disappointed. My S5 was having a blast at the game. W had already said she did not want to stay long. Ok, fine. But during the 1st quarter she kept saying how S3 was tired and wanted to go home. I did not sense that, but ok. Finally after hearing it enough, I said ok, we can go. We did drive separately but the thinking was it would be easier to watch to quick moving kids in a crowd if we were both there. S5 was devastated. he was crying and super sad about leaving. He was having such a good time. I asked W if she was going out or going home. Cause if she was going home, she could take S3 and I would get him after the game. She said she was not going out but had errands to run (8pm Friday evening?). S5 was still a mess. I said I would keep them both here so the kids can have fun. And I did.

I was not upset that she had plans. Gotta figure she would. I was bothered that whatever it was could not wait at least another hour for the sake of the kids, especially S5 who was loving his first football game.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,077
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,077
That is disappointing, Pilot. It's almost like she was agitated and anxious. I wonder what that was all about.

What I'm confused about is if she had just simply said, "Hey, i'm not sure I can stay the whole game, is it cool if I leave both kids with you and jet out at half time?" I'm pretty sure you wouldn't argue, right? I mean, it's like she was trying to hide but why? Just say what you want, woman!

The "errands" thing is hilarious actually. That's when I hit the post office and the drug store, you?


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
D: 7
Bomb: 6/30/14
Separation: 8/11/14

Be strong enough to let go and wise enough to wait for what you deserve.
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 188
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 188
It's the selfish behavior that they don't even see. My W when she did this kept saying kids are resilient what does that mean!


Me 40 W 40
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,077
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,077
Originally Posted By: Gotan74
It's the selfish behavior that they don't even see. My W when she did this kept saying kids are resilient what does that mean!


It means that the kids will bounce back from her decision to not work on the marriage.

My H said the same thing.


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
D: 7
Bomb: 6/30/14
Separation: 8/11/14

Be strong enough to let go and wise enough to wait for what you deserve.
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,500
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,500
My H said it too. It's a cop-out. Like small children should have to be more adaptable than the grown-ups whose job it is to protect them. Gah.

Loving parents don't demand that of their children except in extreme cases. Illness and accident. They don't inflict it on purpose rather than seek solutions.


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Originally Posted By: Ss06
That is disappointing, Pilot. It's almost like she was agitated and anxious. I wonder what that was all about.

What I'm confused about is if she had just simply said, "Hey, i'm not sure I can stay the whole game, is it cool if I leave both kids with you and jet out at half time?" I'm pretty sure you wouldn't argue, right? I mean, it's like she was trying to hide but why? Just say what you want, woman!

The "errands" thing is hilarious actually. That's when I hit the post office and the drug store, you?



I cannot mind read, but 2 possibilities stick out. One (the less likely) is that someone is/has been staying with her. I do not really think this...but it would be a reason to keep me out. The other, more likely is that she does not want me to see how much she has spent in her new place because she is still asking me to pay her cc bills. And she is afraid if I see she is buying new tvs and furniture, i would tell her she does not need money from me. Of course, there is always the possibility she just does not want me in there.

I absolutely would not have cared if she said she wanted to leave early. She could have told the kids that too so they would understand. but to tell me early on she does not want to stay long and then try to pawn her leaving off as the youngest is tired and not accept taking him so S5 can continue a night he was really enjoying was just crappy of her.

IF...I was a mind reader, or someone else had typed this, I would tell them that W was probably hiding something. What, we do not know. But there was something she did not want me to see because she did not want me to react. And that was probably because she was having mixed feelings, or uncertain about her feelings. She did not want to burn a bridge, but she also did not want to alter her current lifestyle.

Who knows...


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
Pilot, sorry to hear about the wifes actions. I don't know but looking at it from same kind of behavior with my w. Since they have emotionally checked out for the time being. I think they feel uncomfortable being around us in.public.I think your w is struggling, she knows what she is doing is wrong, I am sure she is a good woman at heart and she may not feel she deserves you. I know that sounds crazy but I think there maybe some self esteem issues. You seem like type A personality and she may not feel like she is your equal. Just a thought, have you had a DB coaching session yet. I am about do for another one. As far as not letting you in apartment , who knows maybe place was a wreck and she was embarassed, dishes were dirty. You are having fun at game w boys and she might just not understand why you are doing so well. Hang in there Pilot, tomorrow is a new day


M 54
W 48
T 19
M 17
D 12
Twin S 6
Twin S 6
Ilybnilwy 1/26/14
A discovered 2/3/14
D filed 7/25/14
Sumons served 8/14/14

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
These waw are surprised by how much a good man who wants his family back will go through for them. Once they feel that slipping away there will be some 2nd guessing. Just need to be strong. Just curious Pilot how her parents are taking this and what kind of R you have with them. Is she an only child.


M 54
W 48
T 19
M 17
D 12
Twin S 6
Twin S 6
Ilybnilwy 1/26/14
A discovered 2/3/14
D filed 7/25/14
Sumons served 8/14/14

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
Hi pilot, I wish I could offer some comforting words but it does sound like your W is hiding something. As you said, it could be anything. Another man's undies or just the expensive TV she bought with your money. Don't worry too much about it in any case.

You did great with the kids. She is being selfish.

I think the advice you have gotten above from 25 is something to think about. Maybe it is time to refocus for a minute. I am with you on being frustrated, lonely, angry etc etc. But it is true that if you want your wife back you (we) should probably stop thinking about ourselves and think about the consistent changes we want to make to and for ourselves and display those to the WAS.

If we focus on being the best we can be, maybe the other stuff will work itself out...?

Hang in there my friend!
Hugs,
Lisa

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
igit, who knows why my W does what she does. maybe you are right. I never got the sense she was uncomfortable in public with me as we have had many occasions where we were out together. The part about feeling she does not deserve me...I can see it. It feels kind of egotistical for me to think that, but I can definitely see that angle having some merit. She has in the past spoken along the lines she did not feel like my 'equal' but I do not know if that was 'fog' talk.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
igit, she is an only chid. Her parents are really unhappy that she is not making any efforts to work on the M. They have always liked me and I have a great relationship with them, as well as her extended family. That being said, they are her parents, and I know they will support her and whatever she ends up doing.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Lisa, I know I will never know the real reason WHY she has resisted me being in her place. It was very neat and tidy when I did go in, so I know it was not that. She has always been a neat person.

I have not had my coaching session yet, but I am sure it will be something I will discuss and figure out the best course of action.

thanks smile


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
Pilot, your DB coach will give you some insight and approaches you may have never thought of. Mine definitely gave me some good questions to ask her during conversations I have had with W. I thought at the time they had some impact. then I backslide and it seams take steps backward. Not sure who your DB coach is but mine has become a great friend to talk with during this crisis. She understands the impact of Affair and whats going on in WAW mind. She suggested great books to read! That being said I hope things change in your R with W. I know where I fell short in R with her and know are R will never be the same again. That's great you have a good relationship with her folks. Her wanting this time alone may work to your advantage with there feelings for you. Hang in there buddy live for today because tomorrow isn't promised.


M 54
W 48
T 19
M 17
D 12
Twin S 6
Twin S 6
Ilybnilwy 1/26/14
A discovered 2/3/14
D filed 7/25/14
Sumons served 8/14/14

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
Pilot,

i was a bit confused about the logistics of the evening with the boys and why the arrangements were so convoluted (to me anyhow). But here's the deal. You do NOT know why she was so hesitant for you to go inside but I'd rule out any OM issue b/c there's no way she'd risk your sons saying something. And they would say something if some new guy was living or visiting often, etc. There's no way she'd risk that being blurted out and kids DO blurt things out like that.

Though I think this is a pointless exercise b/c who really cares why she didn't want you in her place? IT was moderately rude and a bit weird, but so what?

Back to YOU and YOUR LIFE....okay?

As you model making your sons THE priority of your life, and as you show yourself being the best father you can be regardless of what she is doing/thinking/feeling/planning/saying,

it'll be a good thing. Your sons will benefit obviously.

There's a lot to teach her by your own behavior, which is that YOU have changed (and perhaps that SHE can too...) Make sense?

But drop this now. First, It's not an event you may ever understand. How much time do you want to spend trying to decipher her behavior last night, now?

She knows the boys were not happy and she knows she played a role in that. Let it sink in. If you say much, she'll feel attacked and any introspection she might have engaged in, will be lost.

My h had some goofy events and made some horrendous comments in those years some of which I recall quite vividly. But there are at least a few he literally does not even recall now, and I think he's being honest. (I mean, I really believe he does not remember some of the crappy things he did or said.)

In truth, the weirdest things he did, which he does not recall, were pretty out of character so maybe its harder for them to recall it - or they had their own reasoning going on so fast, and the "awkward discomfort" HAD to be avoided....so much so they don't even know the extent to which they went, to avoid it.

Weird and annoying, yes. OR as you said, "Disappointing". And even if you reconcile, our spouses do and will disappoint us again. AS we will disappoint them too. I would just chalk this up to one of those times and discuss it with your coach and perhaps more importantly, how to handle those moments in the future.

My coach was a Godsend. One small but pivotal example of how she helped me turn around a VERY disappointing moment is this.

Right after h left for yet another credential, one which I strongly opposed and felt would end our m, and which was 300 miles away, h "forgot" to pay the bills. Mind you, he had religiously paid all our bills for 25 years and it was a monthly ordeal for him. He'd grimace and whine and I'd offer to help or do it instead but it was a control issue for him. So I pretty much let him do it all even though it seemed UNfun for him.

Suddenly he was off by himself and NOT interested in paying the utilities. Sure would have been nice if he'd told me but that would have been "so awkward" I guess he felt it would be easier on HIM if I just found out the hard way.

Which I did. We were evacuating b/c of local wild fires and h was gone, so I was loading our car and packing for our d's and feeling pretty vulnerable. I really REALLY wished he was there to help and maybe encourage us b/c the fires were terrifying.

THEN the power company came to see me and said they were cutting off our electricity for non payment....NICE TOUCH...I paid the bill and was FURIOUS at h for being so thoughtless.

the next day I had a DB coach session and knew h would call later that day. I was fuming, locked and loaded for THE conversation I was going to have with him about how selfish and neglectful ETC....

But my DB coach talked about the bill paying h had been doing all those years....and I decided to take her approach.

When H called and I discussed the fires and then the power bill, h first said he hoped it did not hurt HIS credit (I swear he said that & to this day I can't tell if it was a joke since he has no recall)....I bit my tongue.

Anyhow he probably expected me to blast him, which I had planned to do before the DB coach session.

At one point I said "well, if you are not going to be paying the utilities anymore, I just need to know which account to use, and I'll pay them, since you aren't..."

He got defensive and raised his voice to say "Now YOU know what it's like to be paying the bills, like I have for the past 25 years!"

I paused to recall the coach's advice and then I said, "Yes I realize that, and I want to THANK YOU for doing it, b/c it IS stressful to deal with this every month."

LONG PAUSE on h's end....(seemed like 10 minutes but was probably 10 seconds).
He said "well you're welcome" in a soft voice, and I knew then that an expected blow out, had turned into something else.

A new way of interacting... Pilot though I can tell YOU -- that I still think he was "wrong" to handle it so poorly, I also realized something else.

First, he probably just forgot to pay it and was embarrassed, b/c there were a lot of emotions flying around at the time, as he prepared to leave us for a fellowship he never needed to do and to move out and at some level he knew he was risking the relationships with all of us, and for what? So who knows WHY he failed to pay the bill...?

None of that changes the reality that in fact he HAD been unfairly burdened and stressed all those years, he had never missed a payment, and I had never thanked him. My thanking him THEN, really seemed to strike a chord in him, in a good way.

I don't know why I had never thanked him before, except to say I took it for granted, since he "wanted" to pay the bills and was "so controlling" it must therefore not count as something positive he was doing. But it should have.
I tended to negate or overlook it and I can't say for sure why I did that, but it doesn't reflect well on me.


I'm Not sure if that ^^ event sheds any light on anything for you. But I thought I'd pass on how following the advice of a DB coach that went against almost every urge I had, made a difference in how I acted, how h and I interacted, and it was such a dramatic shift for me, I noted that and began to incorporate more of those small comments or gestures of appreciation in the oddest moments. Sure caught h off guard.

And it reminded me that h really did have his own points of view, not all of which were off base or nuts.


So, back to YOU. How are your GAL activities going?


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Pilot,

i was a bit confused about the logistics of the evening with the boys and why the arrangements were so convoluted (to me anyhow). But here's the deal. You do NOT know why she was so hesitant for you to go inside but I'd rule out any OM issue b/c there's no way she'd risk your sons saying something. And they would say something if some new guy was living or visiting often, etc. There's no way she'd risk that being blurted out and kids DO blurt things out like that.


Yea, it is pointless to dwell on it. I guess the main reason I did was was because it was the 3rd time since she has moved down (a couple of weeks) where she has gone out of her way to avoid a situation where I would have an opportunity to see the inside of her place. Ultimately whatever the reason nothing changes. There could be as many 'positive' reasons for her actions as negative. All I know is she did not want me to see something in there. So...moving on smile




Quote:

She knows the boys were not happy and she knows she played a role in that. Let it sink in. If you say much, she'll feel attacked and any introspection she might have engaged in, will be lost.


I wont, and had not planned on saying anything to her about it.

Quote:


My h had some goofy events and made some horrendous comments in those years some of which I recall quite vividly. But there are at least a few he literally does not even recall now, and I think he's being honest. (I mean, I really believe he does not remember some of the crappy things he did or said.)



thanks for sharing the story. Sometimes I forget that many others here seemingly had it worse off than I have it. Although I really have no idea how bad it is, since there really has never been any communication. Regardless, it does illustrate how things can go from bad to good if conditions are right.



Quote:



So, back to YOU. How are your GAL activities going?


My GAL activities are going very well. I just got back in from taking the kiddos swimming. I have various social events planned this coming week, and next weekend I am taking the kids out boating. (I give them back to W tomorrow). I generally have no problem finding things to do. I still avoid the bar scene though...not much interest in that.

Thanks for your post!


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,685
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,685
Originally Posted By: Ss06


The "errands" thing is hilarious actually. That's when I hit the post office and the drug store, you?



My H goes to Home Depot several times a weekend. Apparently they are frequently out of what he needs.



"Don't look back, you aren't going that way"
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: rppfl
Originally Posted By: Ss06


The "errands" thing is hilarious actually. That's when I hit the post office and the drug store, you?



My H goes to Home Depot several times a weekend. Apparently they are frequently out of what he needs.


Very Understood.

But then again, as an LBS who sometimes needed to reduce tension in the house, by leaving, I went on long walks (or "Fury marches" / "Ranting runs") and of course had to go to the book store for "that book I need for work..." which they NEVER had.

Escapes are sometimes needed for all....and though we say we want them home (and we really do, usually)

there's a cost to every choice. And an adjustment for all.

At least when they are out of the house, the tension can leave with them. So I guess I mean to say, be careful what you wish for.


Last edited by 25yearsmlc; 09/06/14 09:39 PM.

M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Here is a question for the old timers (vets). Is there an 'expiration date' on NC/dark/dim? Let me clarify. After a BD or whenever a LBS begins to LRT, NC (or a variation) would seem to have the most effect as the WAS is confused as to what is going on. However, after a period of months of, lets call it, limited contact, does the whole concept go from being effective to 'routine' for the WAS? Do they begin to just build their life around the idea of the limited/NC and accept it as the new normal?

I hope that makes sense...any input would be appreciated.

Thanks


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,077
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,077
Well phrased, pilot. I'm curious about responses.


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
D: 7
Bomb: 6/30/14
Separation: 8/11/14

Be strong enough to let go and wise enough to wait for what you deserve.
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
Was just wondering the same thing! smile How long is NC useful and when does it just become the new normal. Or is it all about the WAS, letting them have their time "alone" however long it takes for them to reach out? And then what should the NCer consider as the WAS "reaching out" and what to do about it? Stop NC?

Who has an answer for us? smile

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 87
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 87
Thank you for posing this question. I've been wondering the exact same thing.


Me: 35, H: 37, no kids
Together since 2002, Married since 2007
IDKIILY: 2/2013
MC: 5/2013-6/2014
H stated he was REALLY done: 4/2014
I moved out 7/6/14
H filed end of 8/2014 but still hasn't served me
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
W just came by to get the kiddos for her week. We smiled and spoke briefly, but pleasantly. I have to say it does seem we are growing more and more apart these past few weeks. Her demeanor definitely shows a stronger detachment than over the summer. Dunno... Its almost as if there was something looming on the horizon.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
I just had a very long and interesting talk with a couple who are greats friends of mine. The guy and I have been close friends for years. He recently remarried. She was a classic WAW from her first marriage, and it was extremely interesting to listen to her talk about her M and how it fell apart. Also it was really interesting to hear her perspective on what she was thinking the entire time and her mindset. Even after she said something 'clicked' and she was done, she still held out hope that he would change and they could work things out.

She had a really rough marriage for years, and during that time she said she tried and tried to make things work out. And after years of threatening D, she finally filed and proceeded. While she was talking about this, she was offering advice on what she thought I should do in my M. Some of it seemed to conflict with what I would say is proper DBing. And I challenged her on part of it. She thought I should call my W tomorrow and let her know I wanted to work on our M. This was after I updated her on the entire story since we have been back. Things I have done, right and wrong. Things with LF which she then said I was sending all the wrong signals to W by doing that. At any rate, I challenged her and said when you were 'done' and checked out with your H, and your D was proceeding, and he called you up and said lets have lunch and talk about working on our M, what would you have said to him? She said she would have gone. She said she was hoping all along he would change for the better, but she never saw it from him. She said if she thought he was willing to work on changing and work on the problems they had, she would have jumped at the chance. Because in reality, she did not want a D, but she was at her wits end and did not want to continue life the way she had been living.

In a lot of ways, our M stories were similar. In other ways not so. We did not share the history of conflict they did. But we did share the history of financial downfall, along with his seeming lack of effort to correct it in her eyes. He would go off and spend his time fishing (like I did) and what not.

There are many more things we talked about, but this one really stuck out to me...her saying I need to let her know that I still want to work on our relationship. And it is funny it comes at this time because this morning I was rereading my entire posting history (no where near finished yet) and I was reading where 25 said this in reference to a post I made about how I was pretty firm about things being over right before our S began.

Quote:
I just had a long deep conversation with someone in this position (your wife's) and she told me that in her opinion, "too much water under the bridge" and that her h would "never forgive me,so there's no point in trying to come back".


I still have yet to talk to a DB coach, and suspect I will this week. I will definitely bring this up.

For what its worth, a couple months after original BD (last Sept.) my W and I were trying to work things out. We went to their house during one of our visits here. My friend said to her H after we left that she thinks my W has checked out. Funny she would say that because during talks this past May before our S began, she admitted that after original BD, she never gave us a chance.

She also cannot figure out why my W has not served me yet, and does not buy the 'to save my feelings' angle. She did give me a bunch of 2x4s for some of the things I have done over the summer..especially regarding LF.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
More nuggets of wisdom from 25 back in June which relates perfectly for where I am today...

Quote:
Me: But a person's spouse is already in an A either EA or PA, how could there possibly be judgement from the other?

25: it's not about their judgement. But it DOES contradict your alleged desire to reconcile AND it smacks of one upmanship AND it also undermines any claim that you think it's wrong to have an affair while still married. Do you not see anything wrong or off about this? I need to know what you personally truly believe about this.



Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
Hi pilot, I find this all interesting. It relates to my situation as well. On the one hand we want to set boundaries, not pursue and show that we are good on our own and don't have to cling to the WAS. On the other hand if we do NC, act like we've moved on and maybe even are seen with another person... is it too much?

Maybe the WAS will not like it if you do NC. Maybe the WAS will get upset or jealous when they see you with someone else. But if they feel hopeless about trying to win you back, and embarrassed about their mistakes and behavior, and have low self esteem and etc etc then maybe the NC and moving on is a bit too much.

What is the place of balance between pursuing and NC? I'm guessing it is something unpredictable and random. In other words no contact interspersed with some kind of sign showing you could be open to reconciliation. I have no idea what that would be. Maybe something with their love language? What is your W's LL? A little raft of hope that they could cling on to or choose to ignore.

Good luck pilot. I'm interested to see what you decide to do going forward. Though I have been here only a short time compared to you I think we often have some similarities in where we stand.

Hugs, Lisa

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
Pilot, I found by DB coach having a little different s tragedy then the DB book. It might be from the time talking with the coach. Some great conversations , I have spent 8 hrs over 3 months with my coach. I think she has helped me keep focused and my mind in the on the result I am looking for. It will be interesting to hear your experience with coach.


M 54
W 48
T 19
M 17
D 12
Twin S 6
Twin S 6
Ilybnilwy 1/26/14
A discovered 2/3/14
D filed 7/25/14
Sumons served 8/14/14

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
I have my first coaching session at noon central today with Amanda. Will be interesting I am sure!


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
As I have been re reading my threads from start to finish, I have had many many regrets at things i have done along my journey. I have also been able to see advice given to me differently than I did at the present...for whatever reason. One of the things that has stuck out to me is an exchange between myself and 25 over compliments and WOA to my WAW.
Quote:



Me: We have not really spoken/text much since the day she left. I have not initiated anything other than asking to facetime with the kids. I do agree given the past times we have been together, she will probably be just as friendly as before. I will listen to advice from you, labug, 25, and others and take a little more risk by offering compliments, etc.

25: This ^^statement makes me sad. What would you be "RISKING" By complimenting your wife? (The risk to not complimenting her is a lot higher)

You have a wife whose love language is WOA. You have a problem expressing positive feelings verbally (though you sure want HER to verbalize things that make her very uncomfortable or even embarrassed/ashamed. Irony much?)

So, to you it "risks" something, to compliment your wife.

Man That is a bad combination Pilot. It means (to me) that you think compliments "Costs" you power in the r, (can't think of what else you might believe you risk but NO I don't think you are risking power, I think YOU think that)...

so I wonder if you think she'll assume that the compliments mean SHE is a great catch and you are THUS at her mercy, or something odd like that??

In reality, getting compliments is just how she feels loved. And denying her this does NOT "protect" you; not at all; it is the opposite. Denying her compliments, which costs you nothing, is denying her something SHE NEEDS.

Keeping them to yourself, makes her love tank empty. That's not good.



All I can say is I am sorry to my W and to 25. To my W because I now see how in retrospect I could have offered my W WOA and compliments without coming across as needy or overly pursuing. And sorry to 25 for resisting her advice because I somehow thought I knew better, and offered up excuse after excuse. Maybe had I kept the WOA flowing and compliments flowing, I would be in a different place right now.

Ugg...more to come I am sure as I continue reading my miserable little journal.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 628
Z
zew Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 628
Quote:
I have also been able to see advice given to me differently than I did at the present

Don't beat yourself up. We are all smarter now than we were at the beginning.

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
Good for you Pilot, I was hesitant at first, but feel money well spent no matter what happens.


M 54
W 48
T 19
M 17
D 12
Twin S 6
Twin S 6
Ilybnilwy 1/26/14
A discovered 2/3/14
D filed 7/25/14
Sumons served 8/14/14

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Quote:
Here is a question for the old timers (vets). Is there an 'expiration date' on NC/dark/dim? Let me clarify. After a BD or whenever a LBS begins to LRT, NC (or a variation) would seem to have the most effect as the WAS is confused as to what is going on. However, after a period of months of, lets call it, limited contact, does the whole concept go from being effective to 'routine' for the WAS? Do they begin to just build their life around the idea of the limited/NC and accept it as the new normal?


IMO, there could be a point that the LBS stops using this method. Either the couple moves on to other people and make a life apart from each other, or they make some shift to reconcile. I'm not sure exactly how you mean "go from being effective to routine for the WAS". She has to accept whatever limited contact you participate in, yes? She may not like it, but she has to accept it.

I want to remind you, this should be for you, and not to get a reaction from her. It is "effective" when it helps you to stay better detached. It is effective when she begins to miss more of "you".

If the two of you move on in different directions, what would be the point of more contact? The children would be the only reason for ever contacting her. OTOH, if she becomes interested in reconciling, she will let it be known. Obviously, you would not continue LRT under those circumstances.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Ok, just had my first DB coaching session. Much of the time was spent with me talking about the history. But my coach did say I need to work on more WOA and keep up the PMA and GAL mentalities when around my W. She also said to drop the LF, especially around W. Hah, I kinda knew that.

I will ask W if she wants to have lunch sometime this week. Maybe she will say yes, maybe she will say no. She has been pretty distant with me lately. Probably my fault, but who knows. The coach said to go back to what was working over the summer, and I am right in the middle of reading all of my journal at that point in time, so find out what was working, and what wasnt. LF obviously was not working. If W says yes, she says yes, if no, well, then no. Life goes on...


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
It seems, without mind reading here, that what I have done is created a situation where it is possible my W thinks there is not a smooth road home (if any). This is compounded by scenarios where LF was involved, my rebuking our almost physical evening, purposefully coming across as overly detached, among other things.

The DB coach seems to 'think' that there is some deep connection W still feels with me which has kept her from pushing the D through as well as allowing the good connections we have had on and off. But I need to work on making sure the path home does look easy. And to not try and make having discussion of the A a requirement to working on the marriage. She seemed to think that comes after you agree to work on the marriage. Seems to make sense. She wants me to take more risks and not be so afraid of the idea I may get hurt again in the future.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 536
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 536
Originally Posted By: pilot
But I need to work on making sure the path home does look easy. And to not try and make having discussion of the A a requirement to working on the marriage. She seemed to think that comes after you agree to work on the marriage.


Pilot, ^^^that's a good point. I think it applies in my sitch as well as others I see on here.



Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 350
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 350
Pilot, this is interesting feedback. Remind me again, is your W in an A right now? Have you discussed your boundaries?


Me: 40, W: 40
M: 15, T: 18
D - 10, S - 7
D announcement 6/7/2014
A discovered 7/20/2014 (but denied by W)
Still living together and sharing same bed
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
shodan,

I do not know the status of W and OM. From what I gathered, he has already moved back to his home country. I would suspect they still keep in touch via email/fb. There might be some other guy she has a crush on, but who knows. Everything I know of after May is purely hearsay.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 350
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 350
i ask b/c there are some people on these forums who advocate for a harder line than what your DB coach is advising. Not sure which is right.


Me: 40, W: 40
M: 15, T: 18
D - 10, S - 7
D announcement 6/7/2014
A discovered 7/20/2014 (but denied by W)
Still living together and sharing same bed
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Ugg... Just Facetime'd with the kiddos. W did not turn the camera onto herself as she used to. Did not say a word to me. I had planned on gauging her mood to see about asking if she would like to do lunch this week. I guess that is an indicator. Grrr... Oh well. Such is the roller coaster.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
Hi pilot, I think it is good that you are considering a different path than the one you have been following. Try something new and see what happens! Worse case? You are in a crappy place. Well, you are in a pretty crappy place with your W lately so can it really get a whole lot worse? You were thinking of pressing forward with D just last week right?

Try WOA, try asking her out and give it a little time to sink in. Most of all show her your PMA and show her your positive changes! Be someone she would want to date! I mean, that is really the only point isn't it? You can be all distant and detached but if she looks at you and thinks yuck then she will be glad you are distant and detached. smile

Good luck and keep us updated!
Hugs, Lisa

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Thanks Lisa. I was considering a 180 by actually CALLING her to ask her about lunch this week. I have not called her just to call her since...oh I dont know, April? May?

Otherwise I would initiate the request by text.

I think what I am dealing with is having to rebuild even a slight interest that she may have had earlier. My actions of late have been moving in the opposite direction, so I have quite a bit of ground to cover. Not sure how to seem over pursuing. But I will definitely consider ways of starting...


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
Hi pilot, since you are always giving me and others wonderful advice from the manly point of view, maybe we can help you with a little womanly POV.

Let's see. Obviously I have no clue what your W is thinking. But this point I think you should try being nice. So what does being nice mean without being too pursuing?

Call her. Sound relaxed, happy, upbeat. Say something like "hi! I was wondering if you'd like to go to lunch Monday?" or "Hi! We haven't talked in a while. Let's have lunch Monday!"

Let's say she says she is busy Monday. Don't get discouraged. Say happily "is there another day that might work?" and if she doesn't suggest another day still keep that PMA. If she says she will get back to you later, keep that PMA.

If she doesn't pick a date and doesn't get back to you, contact her again friendly with PMA and ask if there is a date that works for her. Slap a smile on your face before you call. Smiling improves your mood and makes you sound happy even when you are not.

Even if she is totally done with you she will likely still be ok with meeting for lunch if you sound relaxed, happy and friendly.

One thing I have gleaned from my experiences and your awesome advice to me is that in addition to being detached and GALing and all that you also need to appear happy and relaxed when dealing with the WAS. The fact that you seem happy and relaxed is one of the biggest things that makes them confused. At least that is how it seems to me. First of all they are attracted to the happy relaxed person. Second, it seems to confuse them - why is the LBS happy? Third, it seems to make them realize that they themselves are perhaps not so happy.

Who can resist a happy, fun, confident, relaxed person?

In a past relationship years ago I was done with my boyfriend. He wanted to get back together. He would ask me to dinner. Oftentimes I would go if he seemed happy, friendly and relaxed. At dinner he would be friendly and funny at first and I would start to remember why I was with him in the first place. Then he would start being sad and pursuing and telling me why we should get back together. I would shut down, forget any positive feelings and want to get away from him as quickly as possible. If he was able to just be fun and happy, who knows what would have happened?

That's my 50 cents of advice. Call and ask her to lunch and don't worry what she says. Don't push too hard but don't be afraid to push a little. As long as you plan it to be a friendly lunch I think it won't come across as pursuing too much.

Just my thoughts. Hugs, LisaB

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Just got some great news. I found out today I can coach BOTH my sons' soccer teams this year. I knew they needed coaches (and soccer WAS my sport growing up) so I emailed them saying I would love to coach, but I did not want to miss out on the other son's games while coaching the other. They replied and said the times would not conflict so I could even coach both if I wanted. I jumped at that.

I was so excited I actually called my W. She was happy. We talked happy stuff for about 5-10 minutes, then I said I had to go.

Yay...this was always one of my dreams...coaching my own kids. I could not coach my oldest son when he first played soccer because of my injury from the pit bull attack. That made me really bitter.

Now I am happy!!!


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
Pilot maybe next time aft er face timing kids ask if you could talk to mom. Ask if you could buy her lunch or dinner to catch up on kids go over schedules etc. (give her the choice) and when she accepts give her a wink before you hang up. Take her somewhere with a great atmosphere (WATER, OUT DOORS ) Then have a great time if possible. At end of date just tell her it was great seeing her and leave it at that. Make it a plan to do the lunch or dinner to catch up and go over schedules for a while and see what kind of feeling you are getting from her. You will know when the rt moment is to take a chance.


M 54
W 48
T 19
M 17
D 12
Twin S 6
Twin S 6
Ilybnilwy 1/26/14
A discovered 2/3/14
D filed 7/25/14
Sumons served 8/14/14

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 536
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 536
Pilot, along Lisa's train of thought, when I reached the 9 mo mark and felt that my timeline was 1 yr, IC actually recommended I use those last 3 mos to reach out to W on a more consistent basis asking her to dinner, movies, etc. I could then use her responses to help judge her interest in R.

'Other things' took place and changed my strategy, but the couple times we did go out, I really do think it helped W see the new me...



Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 441
Pilot, that is great news on soccer. Great that you called w about it to. I coached my twin boys tball team the last 2 yrs. As head coach I had alot of scheduling practice, snacks etc. Last yr my w was a huge help. After the A and D talk started she thought maybe I shouldn't coach this summer. I told her boys would be disappointed and I wasn't going to do that because of our problems. Anyway it was a great summer as far as tball. My w did help alot and was glad we did it. Don't kid your self your w will be watching you and what a great dad and how committed you are to them and other kids. I only see this as a positive. Good for you Pilot. Your boys will always remember this. Just think back to when you were young, always remembered the coaches


M 54
W 48
T 19
M 17
D 12
Twin S 6
Twin S 6
Ilybnilwy 1/26/14
A discovered 2/3/14
D filed 7/25/14
Sumons served 8/14/14

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Lisa, thanks for your womanly perspective. Please feel free to offer it any time! Your story about how you would even take back an ex (to dinner at least) and have memories of why you were with him is interesting. As long as I do not talk R and screw it up smile

Tarheel, thanks for chiming in. Good to hear from you my friend!

igit, again, thanks for keeping up with me. That is awesome you take the time to coach your kids as well. I am sure my W will see it as a positive, but I could care less how she sees it. This to me, is what being a dad is all about. This is what I would give up a lot to do. I really am happy I get to do this.

I did send my W the following text after we spoke on the phone. I was trying to 180 and initiate texting.

Me.I am so friggin happy smile smile smile smile smile

W: Good! Hopefully it will be fun!

Me: Want to meet at Dick's Sporting Goods on Thursday afternoon when you get S5 and S3. We can get their soccer stuff and maybe have an early dinner before i have to be at the coaches meeting at 6

W: Ok.

So...there...


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,077
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,077
Pilot!

I am so happy for you being able to coach BOTH boys this year! That's great! And, the text exchange above sounds positive too!
Look at you!!!

I also wanted to chime in from a woman's perspective... well, more a wife's perspective and say that seeing your H getting involved with children, having fun, making them laugh, helping them realize their potential, encouraging them...

Frankly, there's nothing sexier. NOTHING.

Take that and run, my friend. I know you're doing it for all the right reasons, for your boys so that's really great but remember, she's noticing (as are all the other moms, trust me).

Enjoy it, make it fun and look good because you're on. wink


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
D: 7
Bomb: 6/30/14
Separation: 8/11/14

Be strong enough to let go and wise enough to wait for what you deserve.
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Originally Posted By: Ss06

I also wanted to chime in from a woman's perspective... well, more a wife's perspective and say that seeing your H getting involved with children, having fun, making them laugh, helping them realize their potential, encouraging them...



Thank you ss. I really appreciate your input. As well as your kind words.

Talk about roller coaster. Last week I was ready to throw in the towel, and this week, I am ready to roll up my sleeves and make another push. No expectation, just do what worked early on, and more of it. I really really recommend everyone, especially those who are on their 4th, 5th, 6th....new threads to start from the beginning and reread. It is amazing how your current perspective at the advice given, and the actions you took prior will make you see things in a new light.

Thanks again ss smile Always love having you chime in...


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,106
O
Member
Offline
Member
O
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,106
It's good to read the last few posts on your thread pilot. Keep up the good work.

I reread my thread recently before I made my first DB coach call.


M: 57 / EW: 52
T: 21, M: 8
S: 18, S: 15
Bomb: 1 Jun 14
EA Aug 2014 I think
PA Feb 2015 possibly sooner
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: LisaB
Was just wondering the same thing! smile How long is NC useful and when does it just become the new normal. Or is it all about the WAS, letting them have their time "alone" however long it takes for them to reach out? And then what should the NCer consider as the WAS "reaching out" and what to do about it? Stop NC?

Who has an answer for us? smile


Well I have AN answer, though I'm sure several exist. All I know is My h left more or less for 2 years, one of which was spent 3000 miles away. I worried about "out of sight, out of mind" --but it didn't work that way for us. Too many years together perhaps?

I did GAL big time, & we had kids so contact of some sort took place but was all but but weeks and months went by without any "real" information being shared much.

I don't think he worried much, after awhile, that marriage would not improve. I also think that he worried that I would not take him back, not b/c I was so angry but b/c I was SOOO moving on and getting a new life in which he was not a part. I think he realized he was losing more than I was, or something like that.

Anyhow, we're married to this day. So that happens..


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Haha, so I was thinking of something interesting and funny at the same time. My kids' first soccer game/practice is on the 16th. The 16th is also the day our divorce petition expires (assuming I do not get served in the next week). The 16th is also the 1 year anniversary of BD.

We will have at least 2 in person interactions before the 16th, but I was halfway thinking of asking her to go get drinks after soccer. I obviously would not do that now, I would wait to judge her mood/attitude and what not. I also thought a funny anniversary card would be, well, funny.

Not saying I will do either, it was just a fun thought. The drinks after the game would prob be the only thing I would do...depending on how things looked between us. I will have the kids that week, and I am sure my dad will be coming up to watch, so he would be able to take the kids afterwards, leaving us time together.

On the other hand, my personality is right up there with doing things like an anniversary card for a thing like BD. But then again, is it more of the same...making jokes over something serious? Hmm...

I have another DB coaching session that afternoon, so I can run that by her..

Last edited by pilot; 09/09/14 06:32 PM.

Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 681
Just my opinion but I would not do the funny anniversary card. Is it really something you want to "remember"? Then don't ever ever bring it up!

Glad things are going better for you!!! smile

Hugs, Lisa

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Haha, yea, I thought about that Lisa. But thanks for pointing it out. So I wonder if I should even bring up the fact that it has been a year, and that it is also the expiration date of the petition?

Or do you think she probably already knows this as well...


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,077
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,077
She knows. She definitely knows.


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
D: 7
Bomb: 6/30/14
Separation: 8/11/14

Be strong enough to let go and wise enough to wait for what you deserve.
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Originally Posted By: Ss06
She knows. She definitely knows.


You really think? Not that it matters a ton, but I guess she was always better at remembering dates than I was. (first kiss, first time we met, first ILYs)


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
I thought for a minute it was your wedding anniversary and when there are kids, I always think at least mentioning their existence is a good thing (if for no other reason, the kids tend to feel better and less responsible for the divorce).

But it's the "anniversary" of the BD....hmm, like noting the anniversary of getting a possible cancer diagnosis.

Hey I'm known for a dark sense of humor, but I don't get the humor here. I get the irony, yes, but it doesn't strike me as "funny" so much as ironic and bitter.

I don't think a joke would work well here, especially since it IS more of the same old "hide/deny the pain" you.

Moving on....how are your 180s and GAL going?


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
pilot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Hey I'm known for a dark sense of humor, but I don't get the humor here. I get the irony, yes, but it doesn't strike me as "funny" so much as ironic and bitter.

I don't think a joke would work well here, especially since it IS more of the same old "hide/deny the pain" you.

Moving on....how are your 180s and GAL going?



Point taken and well said.

My 180s (new ones at least) seem to be doing ok. I started yesterday with initiating a phone call (first in months) to talk about good news instead of just texting. I am going to push all the LF stuff aside as well as to not let that cloud anything. In other words, quit going for the 'im moving on and there could be someone else' image. I have continued to dress sharp every time I see her, a 180 from years of marriage where I flat did not care about dressing up (always had nice clothes but probably wore the same 4 shirts in a row for years) haha. My PMA around her and on the phone, and as best possible, shown through texting has been elevated from the last couple of weeks. New GAL is going to be coaching both my sons' soccer teams. This will be twice a week and I am certain my W will be attending all of them. I have a boating trip planned with the kiddos this coming Sunday...halfway considering inviting W, but not really certain on it.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard