Married now living seperatly

[FunDad]

Actually, that whole post you focused everything on her and what SHE did wrong, etc. It just seemed like you blew off your role and responsibility in all this which you just listed.

-- Good point. I've been hard headed at times and have needed to be humbled in some areas throughout this process.

"1Acts of service"

Did you not help her? If she was feeling fatigued and overworked, that's the number one reason why she didnt' want to have sex. You can't expect her to be in the mood with that many kids.
-- I did help her, still help her, but the place is always a mess and over whelming with this many kids. My normal routine was get kids up for school and get them on the bus (so she gets to sleep in). Come home at lunch and talk and normally make her lunch (sometimes run errands). Pick up kids from activities after school. Help in the evening with supper and getting kids to bed. I recently hired some help in the house and that was amazing and will now be a part of my routine. I still drive over to the new place and help kids if shes needs it (all business however).

"2Making sure I have enough sleep, quiet time and rest"

This relates to the first part. Did you not help her? She's a SAHM. It's no wonder she felt overwhelmed.

-- She does get plenty of rest, but her body was sick a lot of the time. Her recent surgery cleared alot of the disease that was dragging her down. She's recovering well.

"3treating the children and I with respect and kind tones- not as obligations"

This is very telling. Is this how you made it feel like? Not a very FunDad if you did.

-- Sometimes I did make kids feel this way, yes, it was one of the issues that I had to deal with. I'm a pretty fun dad however. We do the pool almost everyday, go camping, play music, watch movies, and other activities they like.

"4acting as if people are more important than things or money"

Could you elaborate?

-- I get frustrated when I know we can fix it instead of buy new. Her and I feel differently about this and she wants me to see it her way and buy new. There were several instances where I know we can make simple fixes so we don't have to waste money on more stuff.

"5not making crude sexual comments"

Did you do this? If so, to who and about who?

-- Any hint of a sexual joke or humor directed at her is not appreciated. I stopped this a long time ago.

"6behaving in ways that are appropriate responses to other people's emotions"

-- I don't let our children's meltdowns control dictate my behavior. At times it seems I don't care and sometimes I really don't appreciate their feelings because they are being selfish. Kids are this way. Example would be kids not being able to manage video game time together which demands parent intervention. If I have not been home all day and when I walk in the door child X claims child Y has had three hours and child Y insists it's their turn, sometimes it's easier just to eliminate video games for all rather than to go in circles with kids about a privilege that has to be micromanaged by an adult who does not have time for that. On weekends when I'm home all day I have them set a timer when their chores are done as the standing system. This works great.

On the flip side I have been guilty of misinterpreting meltdowns for selfish behavior when it was absolutely not (tuned out to what was said).


"7not making crude sexual gropes"

Did you grope her?

She hates it when we snuggle in bed and I touch any area of her that is close to a personal zone. This was happening about 1 month when it was an issue. I would forget this every so often and it would make her feel unsafe around me. There was not overt groping in public or in front of children.

"8recognizing that I am your biggest ally instead of your worst nightmare or enemy."

Is this how you treated her? Especially if she turned you down for sex?

-- Yes, I would be resentful toward her for a while (usually a couple of hours), especially if she was turning me down for sex after days/weeks of none. At one point, she had agreed that we would have sex on a certain day of the week. The day would come and go with no sex. Sometimes it was discussed, but most days I knew better than to try to bring it up. Btw -I would be sure to be romantic for her during the week and sensitive especially around this day. That was sometimes seen as self-serving however and I was guilty of meeting her needs only so I could get mine met. I would actually keep daily logs on my phone of the acts of service and our conversations so I would know that I was making an effort to support her in our relationship. The efforts were still rejected (this is a maddening exercise btw and only serves to show you how much you are trying at things that simply wont work).

"9having positive conversation and emotional connection without expecting it to lead to sex most of the time"

Women (especially your W with the kids) need to FEEL loved and that they matter after giving so much to the kids. Did you ever consider that? You can't always "express" your love in the bedroom. That would be selfish.

-- Yes, I understand. One of my favorite quotes is "Before you touch her body, you must touch her heart". I realized after a while if she does not feel "in love" you however, it won't matter.

"10 realize that I need emotional lubonding before sexual encounters"

That's very straightforward. Did you not understand this?

- Yes, I completely understand this. How do men achieve emotional bonding however? Do you see the catch-22 here? Constant rejection does not serve very well to support emotional bonding.

"11 be responsible, trustworthy and safe"

This relates to the previous two points.

"12 don't provoke kids or I to anger, fear, or shame"

-- (fear) I'm spontaneous sometimes with plans. The became an increasing problem as our family grew. She hates uncertainty and going with the flow. So, I changed this. Every trip now has an itinerary posted on Google docs or another calendar service we shared. This was a big help, but it's still hard if people wont read the schedule and then complain they don't know (even if you read it to them in a group meeting).

-- (anger) I don't listen and hear things I should sometimes. I can just tune things out when I'm concentrating on something else. I can do this easily (a gift and a curse). It's getting better. I don't blame family members for getting upset at me for this.

-- (shame) Some of my kids have done some bad things. I accidentally brought one issue up in front of another kid in a joking manner that I should absolutely not have. I apologized for this and it wont happen again.

Please elaborate.

"13 don't say someone or their feelings are crazy (their behavior may seem crAzy, reactions may seem extreme but DO NOT hint that others are stupid, crazy or overreacting."

What did you do?
-- An example from about "fear" from above. Before we went on a trip, I would tell them exactly when and how we were getting somewhere with each transition mapped out. We took a plane trip to a large city recently, and I told everyone we will take a taxi from airport to hotel when we landed. Some of them had not traveled on a plane before and that feeling of uncertainty about exactly what's going to happen next hit them as I was finding us a cab. Not a big deal to experienced travelers, but to some of our kids, it was a big deal because of the new experience. I also got us on a wrong shuttle on that trip and it created anxiety. It was a 10 minute mistake, but created anxiety none the less for some family members. I'll admit most of my detail planning was to keep from being criticized by my wife. I was very tired of hearing complaints about not knowing what was happening when. It was a no-win situation because something always went a bit unexpected and opened us up to problems we were not equipped to handle together (used to attacking the person instead of the problem and putting me in defensive mode).

"14 take full responsibility for hurt you cause. Honestly I'm not sure what would help on this because I'm sorry now seems very shallow"

So you haven't made amends yet?

--Actually, on a lot of these issues we had; however, when the relationship gets rocky, it seems past hurts are resurrected and become current feelings again. I know about Dr. Chapman's new "The 5 languages of an apology" and we were both working on that to some degree. If the love tank is already below empty however, there is not grace left for mistakes and apologies seem empty.

Like I said before, even she had agreed that I had made progress on most of the items on the list, but it was too little, too late apparently in her mind. I read today in DR that divorce is not the answer to relationship problems, and I still think that's very true, even in our situation. I'm still working on me with a counselor, and I hope at some time she will return to work on "us".

[FunDad]

Well, she has invited me and my son over to her new place for pizza and a movie before pool night (i was planning to just pick up all the kids and take em with not much interaction). Hmm.... a very nice offer. I bring the pizza of course. I'll take her up on that I think.

[FunDad]

Friday and Saturday I went to a theme park with a friend and a couple of our kids that I keep most of the time. Had to keep this on the down low as to not create envy among the others. I needed a break, and it was a 180 for me. Had a blast!

More progress with her. I kept most of the kids on labor day and we had a pretty good time. Root beer floats and watermelon! Yum! The kids actually helped in the yard too. I could tell that my wife appreciated the "break" from having most of them. We had a decent talk when I dropped em off that included some joking around. She asked me to pick her up cold medicine and I did so. We worked out a pick up/drop off schedule for the kids for next week and it felt like we worked together as a team more than our usual pattern. No talk of future plans either way (Big D or reconciliation) but she is helping me connect (and reconnect in some ways) with our children.

[MrBond]

So how have things been going since then?

[FunDad]

Thanks for asking.

I make a list each week of positive, and negative. Some observations.

Positive:
1. We worked out a weekly schedule for time with the kids. We did this with a LPC who is seeing most of our children. It was the best couple of hours we have had together in months (e.g. no yelling or angry emotion from her). The therapist mentioned we are both very pleasant to work with (and seemed confused why we are where we are). Anyway, items worked out are:
- Swim nights
- Weekend schedule
- Family meals out (ALL of us together @ a kids eat free place).
- Schedule for taking kids to school (they only live 5 miles away)
- Fall activities

2. The kids had a toad recently at my house, and it jumped at her. She jumped toward me, grabbed my shirt, for protection. She then pulled away when she realized where her reflex had taken her.

3. During the same visit, she appeared happy, willing to joke. She was smiling at me, and almost felt like she would hug me on her way out (but she didnt).

4. My visits with kids have been very positive for the most part.

Negative:
1. She blew up at me about not having a decent bed during her surgery recovery. I reminded her it was her decision to move (not even telling me where she was going).

2. There are apparently problems at the new place. Our kids are generating complaints with the building managers (they can be loud when misbehaving).

3. She's wanting more money per month, and says she may be forced to go legal if I don't comply. I hope not, but we are stretched thin already. I drive kids around and bring them food and groceries some on top of her monthly allowance. (I also pay all our debt and her insurance). She has applied for food stamps and accuses me of not minding if kids go hungry (they are not by any means).

No talk of the future either way with her. She's exercising, recovering well, has her space, and almost looks like she's doing GAL on her own.

Myself, I noticed Christmas hitting the stores already, and it was a punch in the gut reminder that our broken family needs to be put back together. Even so, I'm still doing my own PMA and working on myself (and our "old" house). Did a few nice things for her just to see what she would do, and she did thank me. My main goal will be to just have a fun date with her at some point. Maybe a lunch business meeting first. To start over, we are going to have to bury the past. Anyway, after a few successful family outings, hoping this will be a possibility in a few months.

Finding the silver linings is encouraging also. I've been able to form a very strong bond with our most difficult teenager, who has a chance at an amazing athletic career. He's the only one living with me because of past behavior issues. The freedom from our normal big family chaos at home is helping him tremendously.

I went back and reviewed several years of FB conversations between her & I. There is a reoccurring pattern of our interactions where she is needing me to really understand her and connect at a deep emotional level. I'm normally a positive person and like to solve problems (fix it) and move on (not get bogged down in the mire of negative emotion). She can't do that as easily and hates it when I cant (or won't) empathize/sympathize with her. I'm going to have to figure out how to deal with this more effectively for us to be successful in the future because it's a central issue to our failed relationship. I just have to wait on this a bit because I'm in detached mode now to create the space she needs.

[FunDad]

Social Media Question: How does a LBS who is in LRT handle the social media aspect? What I see happening is that we are not really as disconnected as we used to be because we see each others posts, pics, and activity. It's also awkward because many of our friends are watching and involved too. Some days it seems it's the war of the "likes" for some of them. Someone will post something along the lines of "Love is a choice not dictated by feelings" and alot of my friends will "like" it and hers seem to ignore it. Other posts may be things like "The first step is the hardest in your journey to a new life..." blah blah and her gang of friends will "like" and make indirect comments about her new situation that encourage her to stay on a path of destruction that wrecks our marriage and tears apart our family.

On one extreme, I could just block her (going darker). On the other I could comment on her posts an alternative point of view (I know this is not a good idea as do others).

So far if she posts something positive, I "like" it. I may even comment. She has posted some positive about me (like good job making family night fun) and I "like" that. So far I've kept these comments to a minimum. I've posted some things I'm doing with the kids and she normally "likes" that.

Any advice here? If used properly, I think it could be helpful. Just curious what others have experienced and what's worked, and what to avoid.

Thanks!

[Georgiabelle]

FunDad,

I'm sorry you are. You will find differing opinions on FB, Twitter, Snapchat, etc. I would suggest not worrying about people liking things that look like they are encouraging her decision. That's what friends generally do-support their friends. This is a rant you didn't ask for although the reality is too many people utilize SM to air their dirty laundry and seek validation. For some it's an insatiable need to get approval that what they do is acceptable.

If she posts a cute pic of kids and you can't stay away, like if you wish. Just don't take posts like "don't bother getting married" or things like that personally. You can't control what she thinks, feels, posts, likes, etc.

Focus on becoming a better person and Dad. That is where your time is well "spent."

[Starsky309]

I would either block her, or just stop "following" her (so her posts don't show up on your newsfeed). The FB thing will drive you bonkers, and stop you from properly detaching.


Starsky

[Two Sided Coin]

Thank god H deleted his Facebook because he didn't want drama fallout from our break up. I'm not sure I'd be able to resist temptation and behave myself.

[u-turn]

FB posts will definitely keep you mind reading. It is impossible what to think of a like of a certain post or place.

Cryptic messages will drive one crazy.

I have fallen into that hole at times too (many have slapped me for that here too

Stop looking or block.