Wife still in MLC but has now left #2

[pbetra]

Hi Matt,

I see you've been on roller coaster quite a bit.
W- good, bad. D - mother?father? (obviously not comfortable being put in position to choose. very hard for children regardless of whether upset w/parent or not) IRS ...

I agree with Shining, mleigh4. I think that since your W is 'all over the place' that your need some structure re: her.

These MLCers are 'chameleons' - it's hard to keep up with their changing moods & emotions. In sitch(s) where order or some sort of structure is possible, it may be a good idea to implement since there is little else you can control with them.

Take care, p.

[Matt165]

Hi pbetra, nice to hear from you! And thanks to everyone who posted.
I really do think you are all right on the money with my having to nip this in the budd right here, right now. Last night my D14 comes to me and says that she thinks she should go back to her mom's house on Friday instead of Sunday to get ready for school that starts on Monday. I don't understand what she thinks she can get done there that she can't get done here. I ask her and she just says that she has to be in school on Monday and wants to have which clothes she is going to wear and all her school stuff ready ect. I tell her that if she does that it will be even longer until I get to see her again. I than just outright asked her "Do you want to just live with your mom during school?". She got a little upset and said no, she just wants to make sure all goes well her first couple weeks. I know that my W has been manipulating her to want to stay with her because W was so afraid (she says but you know about believing what MLCers SAY!) that D14 will hate her because w was the one who wanted the D (I know that since her father has come back in her life she is now saying that the reason she didn't have a R with him was not because he did the awful things he did which she now doesn't seem to remember but because her mother "made" her hate him). I know that she has been telling D14 that she can sleep later when she lives with her, that all her new friends will be there, that she lied to my D and told her that if she went to a different school closer to me, that she would have to get up an hour earlier which just isn't true! My W was so worried I would manipulate my D but now I'm the one NOT manipulating her! So, later my D come to me and says she would like to get her hair cut, needs contacts and wants to go to Marshalls since she has a gift card from there to get some new clothes for school. Now, the problem is if she leaves Friday, we just don't have time to do all that. I tell her this and she says well, I guess I'll have to get mom to do it. Umm...could it be that she is learning to play her mom and me against each other to get what she wants? She also knows that while I'm not able to spend much money her mom makes $8,000 a month and can afford a lot more than me (although you would never know it from how W acts like she is penniless!). So I end up telling my D that I'll take Thursday off from work and we can get her hair cut, go to Marshalls and at least see how much her contacts are. Maybe this way she won't think that if she doesn't stay with her mom I can at least help her out somewhat!

On a good note (I really need some good things right about now!) my D19 called last night and invited me to come to her place (lives with her BF for now) for dinner. She said that she doesn't have any hours at work for the rest of the week and misses me but can't afford the gas to drive here. I told her that her sister is here and she could come too and she was all for that. So, on Thursday D14 and I will go and get her ready for school and then go have dinner with her sister. That is a good day I think.

I am going to either text my W about D14 wanting to come back on Friday and add something about her needing to let me know ahead of time if she wants to change custody arrangements or tell her in person when I drop my D off at her place. The more I think about it the more Shi!!y I think it was to just do it and not have the decency to even send a text to just let me know! But then again, she hasn't acted like a "decent" person in a long time! For the first time in awhile I am back to thinking that I want my W to just fail, to find out just what a mistake she is making (has already made, really) and to fall flat on her face. I had been at the point where I was saying every day "I hope my W finds the happiness she so wants" to try and help me relax and detach. Now I'm back to being angry and thinking she needs to get what she deserves for destroying all we worked for for 21 years...no "joy", no "happiness", no satisfaction. Just loneliness, pain and an empty life! (Man, that sounds mean it's how I feel right now!)

[BklynMom]

Don't feel bad for your feelings right now it's impossible to kept your thoughts like mother Theresa all the time.

21 years is along time to have built a life together and then have someone throw it away. It hurts a lot on so many levels. Allow yourself to feel it

Sounds like d14 is just using this sitch to satisfy her teenage whimsy.

Focus more on yourself and your hobbies. You kids will also find you more attractive the more you are into your hobbies

[Mighty]

Matt, Brook is right.

I can give you an example. My s17 has been having a VERY difficult time with everything. We were all sooooo close, and he would hang out w me and h all the time. H leaving really rocked his world. He is an honor student and started failing most of his classes (including PE and he's an athlete). He stopped participating in things, became sooo moody and negative, and would just sit in his room.

When I would hold him accountable for things, he would get really upset. Around May, he started trying to use h against me. When he was mad, he would call h to come get him. This stopped after h disclosed his "double life" and s17 no longer contacted him like this. S also became much more upbeat and positive (ironically- but because he said he can now move on and will no longer stay with his dad). So since he hasn't done anything with h since June, he can no longer use him as an escape, although he hasn't needed it.

Last week, the night before d13 and I left for our trip, s17 was having a fit about something. Then he tried to get into it that he wanted to stay home alone, and since his recent behavior showed he wasn't responsible enough, it wasn't going to happen. I would have allowed him to stay with his friend, but he was way to disrespectful to me at that point to give him an option. He was so mad. He tried it again: "I'll just go stay with Dad." I totally called his bluff (thank God for DB!) I very calmly said, "OK." It was silent. His eyes got so big and he was surprised. I just walked away, and needless to say, he did not call his dad, but he did stay with my brother.

Didn't mean to hijack, just wanted to make the point to be careful. That's the thing with mlcers, they act like teenagers, because teens have a tendency to be very self-serving. Even the best, sweetest kids want what they want. Sometimes they try to play us. I think it's normal. It is how they are figuring out the world and how people work. They are becoming more independent and curious about the real world and people. I think it is somewhat healthy for them to have different interactions with people to see where they fit in and how others will react. Just be careful. Keep it simple and to the point. Don't give an emotional reaction. Plus, your d is very confused right now. She is watching you closely. The more confident and comfortable you appear, the better she will feel. You want her to have that option of stability. It will help her with her own confusion.

And aside from that, kids are so thinking about other things, like getting ready and how they will look. Where it will be cool to hang out. Don't take it personally. Eventually she will remember where she feels comfortable and with whom she feels comfortable.

The joys of parenting teens- (all while being married to one!)

[Atsbaby]

Hey Matt,

I hope dinner went well with your ds tonight.

I don't have any teenagers myself, but I've worked with them! I agree with the ladies above. Let your d see you confident and as being some place safe for her to go. I know youre pressured with the L and courts about where she's going to live and all of that, but let her figure it out on her own. She feels the pressure of picking parents as well as starting a new school. That's a lot for a teen. She wants to focus on her life and get settled to where she feels most comfortable.

Don't push her and she won't fight and resent you. Let her see for herself how W is manipulating. She'll pick up on that. Be her father and support her no matter what she chooses. Just like the MLCer, it's not always about us.

[Matt165]

Wow, thanks everyone,
Much has happened since my last post (the board was down for a long time). Yesterday I got a text from W. It said that D14, who I took just a few months ago to get her eyes checked and contacts for the first time, failed her eye test for school. The tone was like how could I let this happen and how D hasn't been happy with her vision since she went. My W was asking when her eye test was and how she needed to go back and get re-tested before school starts (Monday!) and what am I going to do. So, I called the eye dr., scheduled D14 to have a follow up appt. today, arranged to get off of work to take her. I text my W back all this and the date of the last eye test. So, W texts back that she doesn't think they got her script right and still all upset. I text her that they were really good about it, were fitting her in ASAP and it may be that they gave her the wrong lenses when we ordered them, who knows. About 1/2 hour later W texts suddenly all nice and saying that she wants to be sure D can see the board for her AP classes and, again like before, a smily face!

So, I took off work today, took D to get her eyes checked and her script changed a lot, maybe because of a growth spurt. D than asked to get her hair cut so I took her for that. While she was there I decided to text my W so she would know. Tell her about the change and that she is trying a different lens. So, I get OK, SMILY FACE from W. Then a text asking how much it cost (could it be she was going to offer to pay?, No, no way!) I text her it was free and that I was getting D a hair cut. Again, she texts right back about good that it was free and say THANKS (she never thanks me!). After hair cut D wants to go get clothes at Marshalls and also asks if we can go pick some things up from her mom's place that she needs for tomorrow. No problem but since I know how I feel when my W just goes into my home I decide to tell my W ahead of time just so she knows (maybe she will get the hint that is the right thing to do). Just got an OK back. I guess she can be nice when I do things that she would have had to do herself if I didn't.

Had a good day with D14 and tonight we went out to eat with my oldest D19. Had an adventure, we got lost getting there but we had fun. Dinner was really fun and my D14 really opens up when she's around her sister. Went to a cool place and D14 loved it. All in all a really good night.

My D14 said something really weird today. We were in the car on way back from her mom's. A song came on the radio about a guy who asks his GF's father if he can marry his D. The father says no, never. My D laughed and said that was me. I told her that it would have to be a really great guy before I'd say yes about her and she asked if I asked her mom's father. I told her the truth. That her mom's father wasn't in the least bit interested in what his D was doing, much less who she married. That I only met him once in the 4 years we were together before we married and he just never even bothered to talk to his D, so I didn't think I needed or he cared if I asked. She looked at me and said "I wouldn't mind if you got remarried some day". I asked her what she meant. She said "I think it would be great if YOU were the one who was asking mom if she was "alright" instead of her being the one who broke up and getting to act like you're all hurt because of her leaving you. I'd love it if you went to her and said "Are you OK" all concerned because you were getting married to someone else".

Whoa, where the heck did that come from? I never act like I'm sad or talk about what's going on between her mom and I unless she brings it up. I did get upset when I had to tell D14 that her mother had filed and how I really tried to make things work. But I was more upset because I felt I let HER (D14) down and I never wanted her to have to deal with the stuff that comes with D (like having to spend holidays with one parent one year and another the next, moving from place to place, etc.). My W has told me that she is so afraid that D14 will blame HER and be angry at HER because she was the one to file. When she was angry once she said she knows how it works, I'll be all upset and D14 will feel sorry for me (like W did for her mother) and that is manipulation. This was when she accused me of wanting to turn her D against her (projection anyone?). I now am wondering if my W is asking my D about me when she comes back from staying with me. Maybe asking if I'm all upset or blaming her or something like that? I'm not sure. I just laughed it off when she said it today and said that I have no plans to marry anyone any time soon.

Not sure what to make of this interaction. My D19 thinks her mom is acting like a 15 year old and is really not happy with her at all but D14 hasn't really spoke at all about things other than to say when I said I tried everything I could to keep our M together, she said "Maybe there wasn't anything you could do".

Any one have any thoughts on this? I always thought kids at her age, at least at the beginning, want the parents to stay together. What my D14 said really caught me a bit off guard.

[Shining]

Hi, Matt, glad to hear you had a great day with your girls! And that W seems to be less of a blankety-blank lately. You deserve a break from the anger, for sure.

Regarding your daughters and their thoughts on your marriage, I remember when my own parents D, I was 18. My mother asked me my thoughts before filing... And I told her I wanted her to file. I love them both, equally. My dad had some demons he battled with alcohol. He was never mean, never cheated, never fought... But he was irresponsible, depressed, lost his job, and we were losing our house....my mom was in terrible pain. All I knew at the time was I wanted her to stop hurting.

Almost the same "bandaid" theory of the ow or om, the only focus for her was on making the pain stop. D seemed logical because in her mind, dad was the reason for her unhappiness. But even at 18, there was NO WAY I knew what that would look like in real life.

The men my mother dated after the D were weirdos. She did eventually remarry. But I regretted telling her to D for years and years. Not that she made the decision based solely on my answer, but I still felt bad for encouraging it after I saw that it didn't fix everything as I thought it would.

It is very uncomfortable watching one's own mother acting like a teenager. Teens don't want to stand out negatively, they want to be like everybody else.....and everybody else's moms are not acting this way, so it's embarrassing. It's also difficult to see their mother hurting you, behaving irrationally, and clearly, not be the stable person she should be as a parent.

IMHO, your D wants you to be happy. When she's with you, she imagines you with someone who treats you like the special man you are. Because she wants that for you. All she knows now, is that the situation is hurtful and difficult. And she loves you.

So, back to the question, I do believe it's often natural for teens to not encourage parents to get back together. In that moment. But they don't know yet how it will change things for them going forward.

It's a whole new set of obstacles. Hypothetically, if you remarried, she may not like the person you choose as her new step-parent. She may not like how it feels to actually have to share her daddy-time with a new person. She may not like step siblings if there were any....she can't see this stuff now. She has a beautiful image of all things happy and good for you. That says a lot about you.

But I wouldn't put too much weight on her opinion regarding M or D. Take the beautiful picture she paints in her mind, of you remarried to the most perfect imaginary person alive, as a sign of how much she loves you.

[juliegayle]

Hey Matt. We lI've thay song. S went against my musical wishes and is a true top 40 kid.

Your d14 reminds me a lot of my ss15 (16 in a week so scary!). He is very perceptive and picks up on a lot that is unsaid. Your w may very well be probing your d but d can pick up on your pain whether you verbalize it or not.

Ss15 said something like JG wants to fix things so we can all be a family but dad is so different now. I just don't know if it is meant to be. He said that to his mom who told me.

I think in a way he was letting me off the hook or acknowledging that he knew things were beyond my control. Your d14 is processing this in her way and making sense of what she sees. Sounds like she just wants her dad to be happy. It is a testament to the relationship you have built with het.

[Matt165]

Thanks for those posts. I got a little teary reading them. I do want to respond but I need to get to work and I just realized something.....yesterday was my anniversary. 21 years. I was so busy with my D's and doing things with them I totally forgot what the date was! Here I was so worried about whether or not to even acknowledge the day to my W and it passed without my even being aware!

Knowing my W, she probably didn't even remember what day we were M (she would forget often over the years. I would tease her and say it was supposed to be us MEN who forget that kind of stuff, not her!) or even think about it. She's too busy thinking about herself to think of anything else. I guess it's a good sign I was able to do this, that I have a life apart from my W. How sad that you can devote 21 years to someone and have it mean so little.

[Georgiabelle]

Aw, Matt. Your Ds seem very grounded and loving. As JG says, it's a testament to your love and devotion to them. You sound like a great dad and keep being that rock for your girls. We just don't know what the future holds do we? And the reality is that we never did. Isn't that weird when you really think about it.

My older 2 say they would love for me to marry someone who is good and really cares about them. Gut freaking buster. They know their dad loves them- he's just strange. My D9 always says (and I couldn't help but chuckle) that," mommy, no maître woman would ever date Daddy." I just tell her that her dad loves them a d is going they something. They no longer ask if he will get better. When they did, I just said that I didn't know. It's the same with your stbx. You don't know what she evolve into.

Have a great day of work! Focus on being the best man and dad you can be. You do have some incredibly insightful, helpful posts to others.