barely holding on - 3

[u-turn]

Hey Dawgy - I hope you're doing better.

Sometimes I am dubious of the rare hugs and acting nice. I second guess it. Is she doing it because she wants to show me something or just to keep me hanging on? Just giving me enough to keep me close. That is where the detachment is working for me. I find that right now I cannot let it effect me (I try not to let it anyway).

Her questioning this is a movement and I totally agree with the fact that she has to work toward forgiving herself - she has actually said that before and it will be hard. This may be what will hold her back and there's nothing I can do about it. Sometimes you just wish you could carry them through this.

I read from Lovethehub on somebody's thread that she in fact was not overridden in guilt at the time. I don't know if my W is. So it makes me wonder the same. I would think that the guilt would eat me alive, but with the fog they must not be thinking clearly at all. I couldn't even imagine doing this to someone (though that sounds very judgmental).

[dawgy]

No not judgemental my friend . What your wife has done in my opinion amounts to nothing more than an emotional affair that got out of control . Then the guilt and shame became sooo great after being found out there has to be an excuse for her behavior , not just to you but to herself mostly . Thats where the continuation of seeing OM and the influence from him comes into play . Im sure that if she could turn the clock back to the point where this started then she would and this would never have happened . That being said I believe the fog takes over after a shot time during the PA gets rolling and her life seems ok . Shes got a fling going , a good home and dedicated husband , shes livin the dream , all is good . This is where the Fog is the thickest . Then H finds out and creates mass panic and confusion . This is where we are now . I believe your wife and mine are good people doing a bad thing based on the past history of my W anyway .

She told me she was sorry and wished she hadnt got us into this mess. Although it took her awhile to own up to it .Im sure she tries everyday to lay the blame on me driving her to this but I know and she knows deep down its just an excuse to escape the heavy guilt and shame of whats shes done to her family . In time whether we are still together or not she will come to realize this . They all do eventually . It really does help to put yourself in her shoes and try to figure out what she may want from you to help deal with this . And being kind loving and patient cant be wrong .I know if it was me doing this I wouldnt want a crazy crying demanding wife harping on me .

[u-turn]

Thanks Doggy - I still don't know how the EA will ever end - I should demand it (joke). Months ago she was trying to validate what I saw as an EA and she saw as a healthy relationship "work spouse" she even sent me articles about this type of relationship. She took that way too far since that (and she acknowledged that too).

So right now she is taken back and upset by the lack of information of what I am doing. I took off a half day from work on Monday and didn't tell her about it. She found out from the kids. I told her that I had things to take care of. (true - business related). I didn't explain myself to her though. I was not trying to hide it - I had no reason to - I was just trying a 180 of not keeping her updated

It upset her and she said "we're through". What a strong reaction considering all of the lies she tells me and her whereabouts that I don't know of or ask about. I am still not so good at knowing how to respond to such things, so I just kept it matter of fact. She really has double standards right now - she wants it all but the detaching and small amount GAL'ing that I am doing is pushing her buttons a little - I suppose that is a good thing.

I know not to get into a long conversation about this or get upset by this. (I don't want to be accused of being a jr. high school drama queen again - thanks sandi!)

She did say that I have no idea what she is going through or how she is handling it. I acknowledged that. I said later "I am not even going to pretend that I know how you feel. I am sure it is very hard on you". She said "I appreciate that". I guess that is the validation she was looking for - right?

She is doing a lot of snooping on me now (she has been doing this for a while though - I have never changed my passwords or anything - I have always been an open book for her)(I don't think I want to look deceptive). She was going through my phone, my computer. I know this because she is not as good at covering her snooping tracks as I was. I don't really care if she snoops though - maybe it is a good thing. To me it still shows that somewhere in there she cares.

She may have seen this forum open - which concerns me a little. (I don't want her to think that I am just trying to do what it takes to get her back). I don't want her to know that I am spilling my guts here either. I also never have brought up the fact that I know she looks at my phone. Maybe she wants me to know that she's snooping for some reason (mind reading).

I am taking S20 back to college today. It is a good thing for him, probably a good thing for everyone right now. I don't know what the dynamics at home will be now. All through this - since March, she has put timelines on making decisions. The latest one being "when the kids are all back in school". This one will probably pass too and onto the next one "I can't possibly make any changes until the leaves start falling off the trees"

So I will see - probably back to limbo.

[u-turn]

After taking S20 back to school, we found out that he was not being honest with us either. He had other plans and left the state for the weekend after I dropped him off and helped him move in. Not sure what to think of this yet - hiding plans seems to be the normal around here. W & I had a talk about him this morning and what we need to do. It's good that we can still talk about important things as parents.

Other than that, it's like the conversation the other night never happened. All the same, typical weekend ignore everything. No movement again.

[u-turn]

Sometimes I feel like I'm in the wrong place by being here(DB forum). I feel like others situations are so much worse than my own. But I am here to learn and improve and hopefully someday have a normal m again.

W doesn't want a divorce
I don't want a divorce
W is having a EA/PA that she claims she is wrestling to stop
she has also told me that the PA "isn't there" (I know this is not true)
I want that it to end (duh)and am wrestling with waiting it out
She doesn't wear her wedding ring, I do (she won't until she's committed)
I don't know what she wants!
We live in the same house, sleep in the same bed. We are room mates that raising the kids.

I know that I have not been perfect and neither has she. I know the A is a result of this, but it is a decision that she is making. I don't know what she wants from me without pressuring her for an answer.

I continue to work on myself.

I have thought much about what single life would be for me and I am ok with it. I can see it. I have thought out a day, a week, month and year. I can logistically do it - emotionally I'm not sure.

I do appreciate the support here and it really does help me, but I don't really know how long I can keep this up. I still feel the need to push back and try to get an answer or commitment from her. Is it too early for that (not letting the affair run it's course)? I know she is having some tension with the OM too. Though that seems to come and go all the time.

I'm really confused right now.

[PeterV2]

It upset her and she said "we're through".

I heard those exact words when I locked my computer and changed my password and told her no R talk until the A is over.
A week later she's asking me to lie in bed with her and hold her to see if it feels right.

Don't believe a word of what she says. She will spew. She's conflicted and will say crazy things.

Continue on your course U-Turn. I see things in your sitch that are micro-improvements and that is a good thing. Yes it will take more time than you want.

You have to let the A run its course. It looks like it's getting to a turning point all by itself. Keep up the PMA. Continue with your improvements. She will start seeing you as the better option at some point. Hopefully soon.

Just don't pursue. Don't push back. Don't try to get answers from her. It's extremely hard to do but it's the only way. Really. Detach. Be happy. No R talk. And be a bit mysterious. Don't wear your heart on your sleeve. Don't leave you computer open to this forum for her to see. This is for your eyes only. She will see it as manipulative. We all know it's not. You're just trying to save your M which is a noble goal. But let your nobility be your private pride. She's got her own row to hoe.

[u-turn]

I see the micro improvements - then they disappear. My hopes that they are still there and just hidden.

Thanks Peter - It's funny how lifting a couple words can be to get me back on track.

[u-turn]

I am doing a bit of mind reading this morning - though I'm trying not to.

W was challenged on FB to list 3 things she is thankful for each day for 7 days. Pretty normal stuff.
1. kids....
2. a friend of hers....
3. second chances!

(this is the one that I am trying not to read into too much - was it directed at me? was it directed at her "new life"?)

these two words kept me awake last night - why the heck can't I detach from her and things like that.

She then challenged me to the same (she usually doesn't include me in anything like this).

Well - I wrote something (probably my 10th FB post in my life)
kept it neutral (family, peaceful sunday mornings, people that have challenged be to be more)- but I have a feeling she is trying to read my mind a little too. (the dreaded double mind reading)

She is acting nice today - asked if I wanted to go to the beach for a while today. Again - I don't think I am detaching.

Question for the masses:
Is it the opinion that I should act like I believe what she said even if I don't (about the A) - is this part of validation? Ignore, give it time, wait, have patience?

Thanks

[Wet]

Hi U-turn, I am sorry that your brain is working over-time this morning. A couple of thoughts:

- are you friends of your W on FB? If you are, I would recommend unfriending her so that you do not have to see (and overthink) what she is writing about. I am pretty sure that she is not communicating with you when she posts on FB that she is thankful for 2nd chances;

- Your post on FB seems like pursuing to me. Saying that you are grateful for people who challenge you to be more, is like waving a flag to get the attention of your W saying "look at me, look at me. I'm changing." The change only works as a positive to your spouse if you do it without drawing attention to yourself. You know, pursuing only causes the WAS to back off. Detach, a powerful word but difficult to practice. Good luck.

[sandi2]

I

do appreciate the support here and it really does help me, but I don't really know how long I can keep this up. I still feel the need to push back and try to get an answer or commitment from her. Is it too early for that (not letting the affair run it's course)? I know she is having some tension with the OM too. Though that seems to come and go all the time.

Let me put it this way. Ending, or forcing an end to her A, does not guarantee she will want to stay in a M with you. There have been more stories to support that fact, than those where ending the A was forced and the WAS fell back into the arms of the LBS.

Is it the opinion that I should act like I believe what she said even if I don't (about the A) - is this part of validation? Ignore, give it time, wait, have patience?

No, b/c that makes you look like a fool to her. IMO, it is not validation. One of the consequences of having an A is breaking the trust of the one who has been betrayed. If the betrayed LBH "validated" his cheating WAW by showing he believes any BS she dishes out.......he not only loses any chance of her respecting him again, but it goes farther b/c she will think he's a dope! He opens himself to being treated as a doormat at every turn.

In summary, you are to act as if you are detached, even if you aren't .