Wife Declares She is a Lesbian

[Joe1981]

I second what Ss06 said. Wonks has been a great source of wisdom. Commitment is commitment no matter what you name it and no matter the orientation. You political and/or religious views have no business here and you are in no way helping essjay.

Wonks, your thoughts and opinion are valued here by many. Don't let a knucklehead deter you from helping the rest of us.

[SunnyB]

Djhartm, Wonka is a wise amazing woman who volunteers her time to support so many here. Your attack was out of line. I sincerely hope you will keep your opinion and your inappropriate name calling to yourself in the future.

[25yearsmlc]

After 20 plus years of being together, the bomb my wife dropped was that she is now a Lesbian.
We have two daughters who still live with us; not aware of details of the situation at the moment; though i suspect they have an idea that something is wrong. The eldest is on the verge of leaving, buying a house with her boyfriend. Once that happens it will be the trigger for a forced sale of our home so that we can go our seperate ways.
We still share a bed , though have had no intimacy since that day. I love her and want to stand for the marriage but in these circumstance - How?
In fact some days she has barely spoken to me and is as cold as ice towards me.
I'm already convinced of an affair, though she doesn't admit it. She spends hours on an internet lesbian dating site. Gym every other day, lost a lot of weight.Lots of new feminine clothes that i would have loved to have seen her wear.
I'm reading Divorce Remedy now and am thinking MLC the changes in her have been so dramatic.
I'm following the advice from DR as best i can at the moment in the middle of this heartache for me.I know that i haven't been perfect - all the men in her life have been a dissappointment to her, was one of the hurtful things she said to me.
I'm so glad i found this site, been reading it for over a month now. - can anybody give me some advice regarding this situation please?--

Essjay,

You are in the best place to be, for a lousy situation. So you know, this situation is not as unusual as you think. Still I'm very sorry for your pain. Let me say a few things up front that MAY relate b/c I have witnessed this quite a bit in my life and can share some examples of what I've seen work and not work.

You are in great pain and it's probably worsened by the "I want no man" preference. I get that. It's a blow to the ego for sure.

But then I wonder if it would necessarily be easier on you, if it were with OR about another man? I can't answer that for you obviously.

But do you believe your approach, in this painful situation, "must" be different than it would be with any other woman saying she wants out of her marriage? If so, why?


Why not just apply the DB principles? And to be clear, that means GAL, doing the 180s (even more than most, YOU must undermine the image she has created in her mind about "all the men in her life" letting her down). Make sure you demonstrate the differences between them and you, but not with words.

You do that by some consistent changes, and you work on detachment, etc...
But know that the "math" of it is this:

Consistent changes + sufficient time = change she can believe in.

ALSO, other examples of women "switching", were the following....

I played softball and went to college on a scholarship. Many of my teammates were gay or bisexual.
On my high school team, about half were in gay relationships, or described themselves as gay or bisexual. I kept in touch with most of them.

At the 20 year class reunion, & at the 30 year reunion, of those dozen women, 4 or 5 of them were still married to men, and each had children. 3 more of the women had biological kids too, and had been married or in r's with the fathers of those children.

So more than half had r's and kids with a man, and half married men & had kids and long term marriages. Granted it was a different time,

but it still means that sexual orientation can ebb and flow and evolve, Nor is it always set in stone. I'm no expert. But obviously your wife's wasn't set in stone.

Anyhow, I met a woman in an abusive heterosexual marriage, who wanted to leave her h but was not strong enough. Then she met a woman who became her bff, and who helped her realize how bad the marriage was, how dangerous really....and she became dependent on her bff. That R developed into a physical relationship.

Eventually She left her h when she had finally gotten healthy enough to leave. (For all I know, the OW saved her life). She confided that the OW "was the first adult to touch her with tenderness". I found that heartbreaking.

When Her h learned of her A with the OW, he fought hard and dirty in court, for full custody. (Back then, a gay woman did not have a lot of rights to her children).

She almost lost them in court. But after the police reports were filed about his more recent outburst and his domestic violence, she got primary custody, with her h getting supervised visits! Oops...

(She said she was almost "lucky he beat" her b/c if not, she would have lost the kids back then. The judge said he had to choose between a "privately deviant woman who poses no threat to her children, and a man who does" (quoting his words).

The END RESULT----miraculously I actually ran into her a full decade later... she was remarried - to a man - whom I met and he was quite lovely and yes, macho. Anyhow, she was so very grateful and healthy! I think The relationship she had with the one woman bff, was a once in a lifetime thing for her and a life saver.

She confided that "I needed her (OW) to see how bad my marriage was, and that I was really in danger. She gave me hope that there was better out there, and the strength to leave him...I'll always be grateful for that, but it turns out I'm happier as a straight woman, at least when I'm married to the right man."

Take from all that^^^, what you will. Discard what doesn't help.

I don't know what it all means.

Maybe it was a financial or biological imperative, or maybe they were always attracted to both sexes, then met the "Right guy".

Or maybe had a friendship that was very intimate, and they needed/ wanted the intimacy to escalate, and or they had sexual urges --so the desire for more intimacy morphed into a sexual relationship, which was labelled as being gay.

OR maybe they were bisexual the whole time, AND OR maybe the desire for children moved them towards men, but that may not matter in your situation and besides, gay couples can have kids more now. I don't know and am not sure I care. Because

The point is, NOTHING IS ETCHED IN STONE.


(Of course some of my teammates really are lifelong gay women, and nothing I'm saying here is meant to imply that it's "all a phase", or "not authentic", b/c for some, their gay orientation has been lifelong and that's that. It's not always about a man who hurt them, or about their lousy fathers.

Some women really are lesbians - and I do not judge that.

But I have a hard time believing your wife is "Now a lesbian" after 2 decades as a straight woman and mom and wife. Is she that great an actress? Did she fool everyone, even herself, all this time?

The only advice I have other than to do the DB approach and HIRE A COACH b/c they have expertise in this very issue. And there are a few here on the boards who have also had this very experience. (However, I think Starsky's wife had an OM if I recall right). Anyhow, the trouble is that the ones who are in your shoes now, lack the time frame of years to know what ultimately develops.)

The other advice is Do not tell your wife she is in a "phase" or having a MLC.

She'll resent the hell out of those comments.

Again, be sure to distinguish yourself from the "other men" in her life. Though It's not your job to explain or defend your whole gender, you need to be clear about how unfair (and inaccurate) she is being, by lumping you into the "men are pigs" belief system.

And btw, it's very sexist (yep, I said it!) for her to be bigoted and use those sweeping generalizations as a reason for breaking up a family.

The anti maleness is not healthy or fair to you. Or to your d's, who are going to be deeply affected by this.

And finally (for now anyway) the need for YOU to be the best father you can be at this time will mean more to our daughters in this situation than most, and it's always always critical to show up for them.

But Even more so in a situation like this. Do you see that? Can you see how vital it is that you are the ROCK your kids can rely upon? You really are and all kids at all ages need a rock in their lives...be that rock even if your heart is breaking. Their hearts are also hurting.

But otherwise, I can't see why this should be treated so differently than any other "I want out" marital crisis.

The more you condemn your wife, the faster/farther she'll flee. Leave out any biblical quotes to throw at her b/c that will cement in her that you are "judgmental and critical".

Plus, I'm not sure your wife is stable right now. NOT b/c of being gay but bc of the suddenness, After a 20 year m --- and the internet fantasy life and all the other dramatic changes you see happening. It's a BIG leap to say "NOW I'm a lesbian." What else is happening in her life? What were her complaints about the marriage before this declaration? Make sure you don't make the lesbian comments the only focus.

Yes I know it hurts you in a different way, but as for DB approaches, I can't think of a reason to change your path.

What is your plan? What are the 180s you want to work on, and how?

And yes I think there is hope for you. I really do.

Too many "dramatic changes" in her for the concept of MLC to be ignored (But never brought up to her).

Hang in there. I'll post more later.

[25yearsmlc]

This offensive post from djhartm has been deleted. This poster has been put on moderation & this offensive behavior will not be tolerated.


Wow, I missed this...

I have a gay daughter....I'm mortified that someone with these views lacks the self awareness to censor them.

Don't you know where you are? This is a pro marriage site that does NOT condemn people. We help gays in their marriages too. Did you know that?

And if you had called MY daughter a dyke, knowing what the word means to you,
Wow.

As far as scripture... I went to see a priest and a counselor (who also happened to be a Protestant minister) about my d when she came out. I wanted their advice and their views and guidance.

Both clerics said "No matter what you say or do, do NOT CONDEMN your child for being gay." Even the Pope said "who am I to judge someone who serves God but has those feelings?"

(Of course something tells me you have an anti-Catholic retort to that, but please keep it to yourself).

A mother of a lesbian came to speak to our group (parents and friends of lesbians and gays) and said for 2 years she had read the bible to her lesbian daughter and told her that she, (the daughter) was "an abomination in the eyes of God."

So her daughter finally gave up...and took her life.

The mother came to tell us how wrong SHE/the mother had been. To use God's teachings to hurt someone, instead of showing them Christ's compassion and love, really is like blasphemy.

I don't know how or why you are on this site but I cannot help but believe that your views and how you deliver them and

how you personally attack those with whom you disagree, isn't a factor in how you got here. Speak to your clergy and get yourself right with God, and start there.

Then see how your situation might improve but please keep the bigoted hatred to yourself.

If you cannot see why we all have this visceral reaction to your words, you ought to seek some counseling b/c I'm aghast that you did not have the insight to know how those comments would be received here. You are out of touch with mainstream thought and as much as you believe we have lost our moral compass why don't you show us where Christ said "Condemning people gets them closer to God."

Our priest said to our d "You are not alone, and you are loved."

^^^^THAT IS MODERN CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY

[Joe1981]

essjay, listen to 25yearsmlc. She knows her stuff. She can see through your BS, so be ready to be hit by a few 2x4s when you're lying to yourself.

Ignore the bigot and allow this amazing community to help you. A bunch of fantastic people here. Can't think of any reason 25yearsmlc would bother reading and posting on here 6 years after fixing her marriage other than she really wants to help people. Many others in that boat, and while they can at times seem harsh, they are here to help. If they don't help you save your marriage, they'll help you become a better man.

Hang in there.

[essjay]

djhartm

I agree with Wet and Ss06.

I have read a number of Wonka's posts in
other threads and she has always been helpful
and supportive to all. I valued her comments to
me and would welcome more from her anytime.

Please don't use my thread and situation for
inappropriate comments such as those again.

Jay

[labug]

Bravo, Jay!

[wmwb123]

I'm going through the exact same thing, but we've "only" been married for 16 years. WW just up and left one day. Later I discover she's having an affair with a woman. My WW has filed for D, but I'm hoping she'll come to her senses before it's final.

If she had just come to me one day and said she was no longer attracted to me or men in general, I would have given up right then and there. The thing is, she's following the wayward script to a "T." She's behaving like a woman in an affair, not a woman who's discovered she's a lesbian, so I've been approaching this like a regular affair.

[25yearsmlc]

I'm going through the exact same thing, but we've "only" been married for 16 years. WW just up and left one day. Later I discover she's having an affair with a woman. My WW has filed for D, but I'm hoping she'll come to her senses before it's final.

If she had just come to me one day and said she was no longer attracted to me or men in general, I would have given up right then and there. The thing is, she's following the wayward script to a "T." She's behaving like a woman in an affair, not a woman who's discovered she's a lesbian, so I've been approaching this like a regular affair.

Seems to me, if we want to DB, there's no real choice but to treat it like an A, is there? I mean, what are you supposed to do, say "Oh NOW I see that the marriage was a sham and you were 'faking' it all this time. See ya!"

OF course after a long straight marriage, a sudden announcement is going to warrant some scrutiny (as opposed to her marrying you, and TELLING you then, that she was also attracted to women, in which case I guess you both took the chance and it did not pan out over the long run).

Also, since my d is gay and talks of "repressed women" enough, I'll say this. [/i]ALL of us '"REPRESS" When we choose to enter a monogamous R.
We repress our urge to have sex with other attractive co workers, etc.

IF you are gay or straight AND MARRIED, you don't get to chase everyone you find attractive. it's called fidelity.

And marriage (usually) requires it, regardless of sexual orientation. So the idea that "now" your wife can be free to express her love is somehow different,

isn't true. If she is "in love" with OW, she'll eventually need to decide to "repress" her attractions to others, just as we all learned to do the same.

Also, parts of the lesbian community can turn some of the experimenters away f they are anti male too much, or too militant. NOT all are. My gay d is very close to our son, who is straight.
[i]
But IF your wife is in an experimental phase, give her some time to work it out. IF it takes too long for you, hey, I understand. No judgement here.

But don't be surprised if she tells someone a few years down the road, that she was "in a fog"....as I described in my first post on this thread, I have met and known women over decades, who have experienced this. SOME ARE GAY, to be sure. But some are not, as it turns out.

But those who married men and were genuinely happy for years, well - I have a hard time believing they are "Gay". They may want to explore their bisexuality and that may be too much for a man to handle (it'd be darn hard for ME to handle it if my h said the same thing).

But am I off base to suggest that there seems to be a LOT more experimenting on the female side than the males? When I hear of girls/women dating other women, it's not nearly as "final" as it seems to be when a man explores sex with another man.

I THINK I read that in one of my "Parents of Gays' books, but I could have read it elsewhere. Just thought I'd mention that.

Hang in there Essjay....and hug your d's. Make sure they know men DO express tender love, on the off chance they don't already know it.

Also I missed your wife's "grievance" list. What were her complaints about you and which ones of those, do you think had some/a little/a lot of validity?

IOW what do you want to work on? Seems to me that is your FOCUS.


And btw, I'm curious. IF She were to come back and tell you she was "batchit nuts" and wants back into the marriage,

would it be easier or harder for you to forgive, than if the A were with OM?

(And I'm acting as if there is an affair, NOT b/c I think there is, but out of curiosity for the hypothetical.

Just want to see if you think you would feel differently if she were with a man, versus a woman). Any insights there?

I have no opinion on likelihood, just curious. And now, back to YOU.

What are the GAL and 180s? And could you also shed some light on Her parents marriage and the abuse she claims to now recall?

I defended child sex offenders (hey, I was ordered to!) But I found some "victims" are not telling the truth AND YET some of them believe they are!

Oh Sure, there are vindictive ex wives who coach their kids, but some are women who enter therapy and find "recovered memories" and it has been debunked to a large extent. Later on they recant.

These memories are less and less admissible in some courts b/c the tend to lack credibility. No, I would NOT tell her that. But I'd also want to explore how "real" those experiences are to her, and to reality.

What matters most now is HER perception, but it sure would be nice if it jived with reality.

Re te websites urging her to leave you, well most websites about dating have some forums that are for the "casual meet ups" ---which is code for "still married", as far as I can tell.

Yes, a lot of our pain is self inflcted by other couples. And when a woman dates a married man I always feel disappointed in HER as well as the man. Like how could a woman do that to another woman? Same applies here.

How can women encourage a MOTHER to leave her family, (in a non abusive marriage,) to pursue an A with anyone, male or female, without really examining her motives and reasons?

My daughter immediately suggested therapy for your wife but I informed her that your w declined. To which my 25 y/o gay daughter said, "well, that stinks".

Hang in there! Like the Pope says, You are not alone and you are loved!

[wmwb123]

I don't want to hijack, so essjay, if you'd rather me not post here, just let me know. I have my own thread, too, in the infidelity forum.

25yrs, my WW never mentioned being attracted to women before this. She expressed attraction to male actors and athletes, though. I think she would have exercised boundaries with male co-workers who came onto her, but I believe in this case, she didn't think she needed to, since the co-worker was a woman.