Dealing with WAW part 4

[pilot]

I guess that is why detachment is such an important technique; it depersonalizes our reaction to provocations which for the most part are not personal but the actions of someone else on autopilot. Sometimes you just need to dial in more trim to remain straight and level... When I can step back when W is not around and look at it rationally it makes it easier to stay focused on the goal, which for me is surviving this and out-stubborning my WAW. One can love the sinner without loving the sin.

Really interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing!!

[pilot]

Ok, so I just got back from moving my W into her new apartment. Her parents drove down with her from their place and wanted to see the kids so i went up there. I helped unload the moving truck as well. She was pleasant and happy, and hugged me when I got there. Her parents were also very pleasant, but they have always been to me and really like me. After we got the truck unloaded, we all went to have lunch. Then we drove her parents to my oldest son's new school. I guess they wanted to see what the fuss was all about. Haha. At any rate, it is a really pretty school. On a bluff and on the bay. It looks more like a resort than a school. I showed them the pier where my friends and I used to bring our boats to school when I went there as a kid. We left the school, and her parents left to drive back to their place 4 hours away. My W and I were alone with the kids in her new apt. and she started to shuffle through things to get them set up. I could have stayed, but decided to say good bye as well. For one, I wanted to be the one to chose to leave, and second, I really did not want to help her set up her new place where I would not be living. I was taking the kids back with me, as I am taking them to the offshore boat race at the beach tomorrow. So I said I was leaving, and she asked me what time the boat race was and where on the beach I would be. I could tell she wanted me to ask her to come with us. So I did. And she seemed happy to accept. Then she came over to hug me and said she did not want to make a big deal about leaving to keep the little one from getting worked up. I had been pretty dark on her since she left last W and had no casual conversation with her till today. I just needed some space from her. She will get the kids this week and I will probably stay dark except for kid stuff after the beach tomorrow.

Fun times...

[LisaB]

Hi pilot, sounds like you had a good day. I think you are handling yourself really well, and indeed your W sounds confused about what she wants. She has to go through her process I guess but no fun for you.
Those of you DBers with kids have such a different situation from those of us without. You really have to consider maintaining that civil, agreeable relationship for the sake of the kids. On the one hand that is so difficult, and on the other I guess it provides an excuse to talk and spend time together. I mean, if you didn't have kids together you probably wouldn't have helped her move today...

I'm interested to hear how the day at the beach goes! Keep us posted DB buddy!
Hugs, Lisa

[Ss06]

Pilot, I just wanted to say thanks for your support and help on my thread. I really do appreciate it.

Wow. Helping to move your wife into her new apartment. That takes serious detachment. I am amazed and dumbfounded by your ability to do that.

Keep on keeping on!!!

[Casey]

Offshore boat racing sounds like lots of fun! I have always wanted to learn to sail; building a boat and sailing around the world has been a lifelong dream of mine. I guess once the WAW is out of the picture then all these dreams become possible.

I hope this makes progress possible; it seems that the WAW has to go experience the world and get burned a few times before they come to their senses. I agree with your post on Igit's thread, that sometimes they never do fall on their faces and we cannot be waiting around expecting them to come back after they fail; that if that is what we are thinking of then maybe we need to work on detachment some more.

[pilot]

Pilot, I just wanted to say thanks for your support and help on my thread. I really do appreciate it.

Wow. Helping to move your wife into her new apartment. That takes serious detachment. I am amazed and dumbfounded by your ability to do that.

Keep on keeping on!!!

Anytime ss.

As for helping her move, yea, it does take serious detachment. I was not sad about it at all. I was just not going to stick around and help dust off the furniture and set things up. I even joked with her in front of her parents about it. We have a heat wave here, and it was already 95 degrees when we were unloading late morning. She made a comment to her mom about how hot it was, and i told her 'see, you should have left me last september when you first said you were going to then we could have moved everything in the fall when it was cool and pleasant.' She laughed and so did her parents.

[pilot]

Those of you DBers with kids have such a different situation from those of us without. You really have to consider maintaining that civil, agreeable relationship for the sake of the kids. On the one hand that is so difficult, and on the other I guess it provides an excuse to talk and spend time together. I mean, if you didn't have kids together you probably wouldn't have helped her move today...

You are absolutely correct...at least I think. If we did not have kids, I would not have helped her, and probably would not even be here. Or so I say that. But so many people here do not have kids and they are trying just as hard as those with. Of course, before all of this happened, I would have sworn if my wife had an A I would leave her in a heartbeat. Which of course....

We can always speculate on what we would do when something does not go the way we like when it comes to someone we love. But the reality is, you never really know what you are willing to go through because of love. Having kids as an excuse to talk to your WAS is a double edged sword. I feel for those here who have that fear of never talking to their WAS again when they go NC because there is no real reason for them to keep in touch. I also understand first hand the anxiety LBS feels when they are forced to keep constant contact with their WAS because of the kids when all they want is to not see or talk to that person for a while just to let themselves heal a bit. All we can do is play the hand of cards we are dealt.

[pilot]

I hope this makes progress possible; it seems that the WAW has to go experience the world and get burned a few times before they come to their senses. I agree with your post on Igit's thread, that sometimes they never do fall on their faces and we cannot be waiting around expecting them to come back after they fail; that if that is what we are thinking of then maybe we need to work on detachment some more.

It is not so much that they will fail as it is they might gain an understanding as to just how difficult things really can be. Sometimes when a W or H comes from a very sheltered M diving into the world by themselves can be a real wake up call. What they do with it is completely up to them.

[bashy]

Heh pilot. It seems our current issues are similar. My WAW recently moved into a new place. I helped her move some stuff but didn't stay around to get her settled in. It's also difficult when you have kids as you can detach but only so much. Reading your thread shows me you are doing a great job. Detaching enough but still in the background with the door open. I'm not great with advice but I just want you to know that I'm praying for you!

[25yearsmlc]

Even though things are going relatively well with W, I am really really questioning if it is worth the effort.


WHY? Why not give it some TIME before you take the temperature again...and again. You are not digging a ditch in tar in Haiti during a storm. "Things are going relatively well">......geez.

It seems you get upset if there is any drama (other than a move toward you) and you ALSO get upset when all there is, is peace and companionship. A GOAL of many here is just interacting without a fight. SAVOR THAT...and let it build.

I try to look at it as if she is someone I just met, how and would I handle it. The answer I keep coming up with is I would not be putting in this much effort.

No offense, but that^^^ is too shallow a litmus test. Frankly, none of us would be here if we had just met the spouse.

WE do all this and more, b/c we MARRIED these people, and or we have built a family with them over a period of years.


I know I have time on my side, especially if she is not pushing forward with the D and not serving me.


I don't think SHE is hurrying to categorize & finalize things as much lately--- it's YOU doing that, don't you think?
Patience...


Even going as far as saying let the petition expire and 'probably' file in our new state 3 months from now.




WOW^^^ HUGE POSITIVE. How'd you react?

But I have to say I am tempted to reply on my own before the Sept. 19 deadline. And I say this not because I WANT to get divorced, I just want to move on with my life.

well, Then decide if you want to give up. But don't assume your next r will be "no work & all play". I think you'll quit this "work" to go find more, with a woman who is not the mother of these kids, and with a soon to be ex wife too

(As in, the wife you have now, so the "next m" would actually be HARDER from the get go!)

See, you will have to do the work in SOME relationship, if you don't want to live your life alone (or in a mediocre relationship, assuming you find a woman who is okay with a mediocre marriage...which is surely possible).

But if you only find women who want good marriages, then you will still have to do the work we're asking you to do now here, OR she will leave you and you will be right back here again,

only it'll be a new relationship to work on.... I say do it ONCE and for all and be done...


OTOH, Div Busting isn't for everyone (and neither is only having one spouse for life, or staying married for decades.)

Have you read my signature block? Do you know how long I was here before I even had an inkling of where my h would really live? Do you get that you are not really having a harder time than most? Honestly you have so many advantages in your situation that if I sound a little irked at your attitude, I admit it, I AM.

I MOVED to Alaska eventually ---and then ---we moved back home, luckily....this was a THREE YEAR process that got us back here...and it wasn't all fun before hand...and only after Retrovaille did I feel as if we really had restored our m.\

Gee, how'd I do it? I GAL like a maniac, that's how. Pilot, you know this!


I guess I am just tired of following the rules of marriage alone while not having any of the benefits of marriage.

Well, I get it. (Yes, I really do).

But here is some tough love, okay?

Make sure you don't marry someone who travels for work...OH and you need to stop any traveling you do too....b/c otherwise one or more of you will have to forgo the benefits of marriage "while following the rules".

Also avoid military families b/c we have to do that all the time...

BTW, what are the rules you are not wanting to follow? Sex with OWs? Is that something you keep having to refuse? Are a lot of women throwing themselves at you or is this that incredibly chronic need you have for a woman on your arm?

I Know you deny this but it keeps flaring up as THE factor for you that you seem unable to get past. As if having someone in your life who is female and strokes your ego is the linchpin to your self esteem and raison d'être. I don't get that.

You need to self affirm better, so you don't constantly require it from her/OWs. That must have been draining for your wife and might be an issue for you to work on with your therapist. You are still seeing one or did you hire a DB coach? I SURE HOPE YOU WILL.


If she is on a journey to see if she can find happiness elsewhere, why not take this time and do the same.

Because you are here on this site. By virtue of that choice, you have said, in effect you are making a stand. You are stating that you want happiness with HER and the children you two brought into the world. That is why YOU are here.

When she is, we'll tell her the same thing. For now, SHE is not sure and she is the one who isn't here working on the m, you are. If you want to be "out there" so be it. But you chose to come here to work FOR the marriage,

so STOP looking over your shoulder wondering if it's SO MUCH BETTER out there, and that you cannot wait a "whole" year (or 3) b/c you want to know now, but Pilot,

b/c that^^ is exactly what your wife is doing. Surely one of you can hang in there for your family's sake and it won't be her this time.

Remember when you realized You played a role in how she felt and how you two got here? Have all those insights faded already? That sure makes permanent change and progress difficult.


Problem is the state she filed in is a no fault state. So any extra marital activities are irrelevant in a divorce proceeding.

how is that "a problem"?

Oh wait, I think I get it. YOU want to file and still be able to blame her...Is that it?

However, in the state we are in now (Bible Belt) affairs play a role in how a divorce plays out. I am afraid if I do decide to date, without the protection of a pending divorce, this might be used against me should I allow the petition to expire and a new one filed in this state 3 months from now.


Pilot, read this^^^ again out loud to yourself, (alone--but include the part about the "protection of a divorce" and hone in on what exactly would be "protected")

and then imagine someone else saying it and ALSO claiming they want to be married and save their family. And yet having to "protect" the sex they want to have with OWs...

DIG DEEP.......NOW, How do you REALLY feel about what you heard?

Granted, she had an A which could be used against her in this state (not sure if she really understands that). I guess I have to speak to a L in this state to see how and what I should do.

At any rate, I am just rambling and feeling frustrated...

So you want to know if you should use the affair against her NOW,

b/c you might not be able to later (In another state AND OR after you also cheat)

and worse, SHE might be able to use your planned affair against you, there!

And you must have an affair soon, b/c it's SO HARD to be alone (??)

Wow, those are some interesting "Div Busting" questions. Yes ask a L there for divorce advice...because here we give marriage advice...and if he/she tells you that you have to LIVE there awhile longer (like 6 months) before you can file anyhow, gee maybe you could delay your dating a few more months?

(In my opinion you are so far from being ready to date a woman, that even discussing it now is inappropriate. What would you offer any OW now, anyway?

Look, We ALL got frustrated. We all got lonely. Yeah, I missed the affection too. I mean, you do know you are Not the only one here who LIKES sex?

And I did NOT enjoy 24/7 parenting as if I were single, (but NOT "single" enough to date!!) for those three long years too...

but I sucked it up and put my family ahead of my "needs" which were mostly (not all but mostly) about my ego. I did it. And I'm glad I'm here.

Wait...PIlot, tell me, or us or YOURSELF, why are you here?

This is a divorce busting site for people who want to stay married AND OR survive a divorce with their integrity intact and a bit of self esteem left.

IF that ^^ no longer describes you, then you have another decision to make.

It's just that You struck me as a "Leave no stone unturned" type of guy. But i have been wrong before.