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Thank you for taking the time to hear my story. I will try to keep it shorthand.

My W and I met freshman year of college, both of us 18. We began dating the next year (2004), were married in 2007, had a daughter in 2012. It's never been perfect between us, but we are best friends. Any recreational or leisure time we spend together is usually wonderful. Unfortunately, we let that time dwindle to next to nothing over the years. We always seemed to be fighting to "just get over this hump" before relaxing. If we can just get into an apartment. If we can just get through the wedding. If we can just get into a house. If I can just find a new job. If she can just get through her MBA. Hindsight is 20/20, but I didn't realize how we let a decade go by trying to get to our happy future. Our time together was always the first thing sacrificed. That has caught up to us.

Two other big problems over time: 1. Her depression, the intensity of which has ebbed and flowed but has usually been there since I've known her. There's nothing terribly unique about that to mention. It led her to treating me very poorly for a number of years, and really hurt our sexual relationship.

2. My own "near walk-away" period about 4 years ago. She didn't know I went through this until recently, but I wanted out. I was sick of how she treated me, and I was also getting itchy to be independent and free. I realized that I'd never really had that. As soon as I left home for college, I met her. 18 months later, we were living together. I stopped loving her. But over time, I came back to her. She stopped treating me badly. She had always balanced the bad with good, and now it was mostly good. Also, my craving for independence waned. She started traveling a lot for business, and while the first few trips of hers (3-5 days each) were liberating for me, I realized what a fleeting desire that was for me. I missed her by the end of each trip and began to dread them. And that was before we had D! The final nail in the bachelor dream's coffin was set this past December. I was able to parlay a European work trip (of mine) into a dream snowboarding trip to Switzerland. I had wanted to go there for 6 or 7 years. The entire trip was 2 weeks, and by the end, when I was snowboarding, I didn't even want to be there. I missed her and my D so much, I couldn't even enjoy it. Whatever remaining doubt I had about what I wanted was squashed. I wanted to be married to her for the rest of our lives. From then until the present day, I love her even more than when I met her.

In March, she started an intensive 16 month EMBA program, required for her job. We knew it was going to be a challenge for us. We tried to establish a weekly date night, but we did not follow through with it (first thing sacrificed, as usual). I didn't spend 5 minutes alone with her over a 5 month period. I talked to her all of the time, and everything seemed okay between us, but I missed her dearly. I kept my mouth closed and just tried to bite the bullet and get through this thing, at least through the first couple of semesters. We had an "us only" trip planned for August.

Required for her program, she went to France for a business seminar, gone for 2 weeks. She has not been the same since she came back. She dropped the ILYBNILWY line and potential separation bomb on me in early June, the week after she returned. I fell into depression for the first time in my life and lost 15 pounds (I'm not very big to begin with). I found DR and read through it. Before I found it, I received support on a couple other prominent marriage support internet forums. Everything has helped me so far, but I'm looking to further that support.

She officially moved out 7/26/14. She lives about 10 minutes away in an apt. We are now selling the house (or about to). I will move into my mom's guest suite, waiting to see what happens with us. We are sharing custody of D equally, and have established a shared calendar.

Now, as far as I know, there isn't an OP. There is a guy from her school that I thought she become too close to, and I confronted her and him about it (excessive texting, although the content was at worst "a little too friendly" but not quite to flirty). She still talks to him, but she has to because of school. They are in a group together (5 total people) which is the same group throughout the first 12 of the 16 months. He was also on the France trip with her. Her, him and 2 other guys spent their free weekend there driving around in Normandy. I was aware of all of this before and after the trip. If I had to guess, I still say nothing happened on the trip other than friendliness, but I can't say I still don't have doubts. I don't know if it was just being away from me AND work, and in another country, that caused her to realize she didn't want to be with me? I don't know.

We talk every day, usually via text or IM. We are in constant communication about D, but "other" talk has increased over the last month. She has agreed to go to church with me every Sunday, but that's only happened once so far (1 out of 3 possible times). Right before she moved out, she suggested we watch the new season of our favorite show, recently released to Netflix, together. This shocked me but made me very happy. I agreed, but every time I've brought it up since then, she has seemed non-committal. I haven't pushed the issue.

I went through 3-4 weeks in June where I was sure she was cheating on me. I snooped, but was caught several times. I didn't find anything unexpected (except for the volume of texts between her and that guy). But after she told me she was going to move out, she locked her phone, changed e-mail passwords, etc. For all of July, I reached peace with the fact that belief that she was not cheating on me. But this weekend I have had a sudden resurgence of doubt. Here are some of the reasons why:

- Last week she had a really bad week with her depression, and she said she had a "really rough" session with her counselor. She won't tell me what it was about. I know she is ridden with guilt right now, but I don't know if it's just because she left or because she is seeing someone else.

- She is using breath mints. She hasn't used breath mints since we were first dating (she doesn't have bad breath, anyway).

- She has become much more focused on her figure. I've always found her attractive, but her weight has ebbed and flowed. She has worked out like crazy and cut down her caloric intake, and now she is stunning. I know that the workouts have helped her depression, and her worsened depression has made her lose her appetite. So those might be the reasons that has increased.

- Her best friend, besides me, has been her cousin, who lives out of town. She never fails to respond to her messages. But I found out a couple of days ago from her cousin that my W hadn't responded to her in a couple of weeks. My renewed paranoia makes me wonder if she is too guilty to admit to her cousin that she's having an A

I still am leaning towards her not having an A, but after we sell the house, we will split our finances, and I am going to hire a PI to find out for sure. What does DB think about that idea? Others have said it is a must.

Now, about ME:

I am trying to 180 but have waned as my worry about WAW has increased over the last week. I had started a weight training program and had improved my diet. I joined a company co-ed kickball league for this fall. I went camping/hiking a couple of weeks ago with some people from work, and I'm taking my D camping for the first time this Friday. I recently accepted a promotion at work, one that will actually reduce my work hours. I'm very excited about that. I have always done the grocery shopping, and I have cooked occasionally, but it has felt good to take care of everything on my own.

Our house situation has been a disaster, though. It's a nice house, and we thought we just needed to touch up a couple of things to get it ready for the market. But we have had disaster after disaster. Plumbing leak after leak, sewer backed up into house twice, new appliances have been a battle with the store, and I just spent 15 hours this weekend pressure washing a deck, fence and sidewalk. We will have some painting to do, then have to get carpet replaced. Sometimes the house work has been a nice distraction and has made me feel good about myself (the things I've been able to finish have turned out great), but at this point I am burnt out and emotionally drained.

I believe I have found a good, solution-based couples-focused counselor that I want to see. Right now WAW does not want to attend with me. This counselor is actually who turned me onto DB/DR in a phone call. I have not met with her yet (finances have been too strained with the house), but I plan to within the next 3-4 weeks. I have a goals sheet, with short-term, attainable goals. I have met some so far, but I need to reevaluate my list (it's been a month or so since I wrote it).

I have the 3-4 pages from DR where people who survived separation give their DOs and DON'Ts photographed in my phone, and I try to read them as often as I can. This has been maybe the biggest help for me so far. Especially to hear them talk about patience, being a friend, and to not believe when WAW says negative things about our past. She told me she hadn't loved me for years. This shocked me and sent me into depression. But after I learned from others that WAW tend to intentionally or even subconsciously misremember the relationship to make it easier to leave, so much made sense to me. I know she was in love with me, even at the beginning of 2014. She wanted to have another baby as recently as January, but decided to wait a few months so she wouldn't give birth in the middle of her EMBA program.

So I guess I'm just looking for support and for help guiding me to the next step. Feel free to ask questions.


Me 38, WAW 30
D11 (former marriage)
S2
T 8 years
M 3 years
BD 8/20/23
S 8/20/23
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Note from today: We were together yesterday working on the house. I accidentally had my wedding ring off (removed it to work out at the gym the other day and forgot to put it back on). She asked me today about it. I was surprised she cared. She hasn't worn hers in months. That combined with the fact that guys have been hitting on her has made it worse for me. Today she told me she is being FB stalked by a coworker. I'm glad she told me, but I really hate the fact that my beautiful W is walking around without a ring, and now more and more people are learning that we're on the rocks. Most are supportive of us as a couple, others are vultures looking to scoop her.

I was in a great mental state in late July, where I was focused on me while being a good friend to her. Trying to get back to that point, but this last week has been hard.


Me 38, WAW 30
D11 (former marriage)
S2
T 8 years
M 3 years
BD 8/20/23
S 8/20/23
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Welcome to the board

Get out and GAL.

DETACH.

Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.

Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.

USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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Can someone explain the "NO EXPECTATIONS" thing a little? Don't expect any response from her? I thought Michelle said in DR to expect positive responses?

I am trying to detach and did so well for 2-3 weeks until a backslide lately.


Me 38, WAW 30
D11 (former marriage)
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M 3 years
BD 8/20/23
S 8/20/23
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Hi, I am sorry for the situation you are in. The best advice I can give you is to speak with a Divorce Busting Coach as soon as possible. Divorce Busting coaches will give you the best guidance on how to save your marriage and get things moving in a more positive direction. Please call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004.

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004


A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.

Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
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Still trying to get back to detach mode because the fear of losing her has been strong lately. Went to a fantasy football draft party after work today with coworkers. It was fun while I was there but was lonely when I got home. Tuesday I played the first game of the coed kickball league and that was a BLAST. Went to dinner with a few after the game. I felt great that night. I was back at the mentality of "I love her, it will be the happiest moment of my life if we ever truly reconcile, but I'll be fine if she does make the mistake and leave me." Trying to get back there. Hopefully camping with my D2 and, ironically, hanging out with SIL and her H will help.


Me 38, WAW 30
D11 (former marriage)
S2
T 8 years
M 3 years
BD 8/20/23
S 8/20/23
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She is hosting a party at her apt on Saturday with 3 or 4 guys from her school. They have been a clique for a while. They were the ones with her on her France trip. This includes the guy that I called in June to stop with the excessive texting. This has not been a secret. She told me about it 2 weeks ago. I will be out of town with D2


Me 38, WAW 30
D11 (former marriage)
S2
T 8 years
M 3 years
BD 8/20/23
S 8/20/23
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FWIW, my WAW started exhibiting the same behaviors before she gave me the ILYBINILWY speech. Read some other stories on this forum and you will soon realize that you could probably cut and paste and it would match your situation almost perfectly. My WAW had a beautiful figure before, but she works out fanatically now and lost her best assets in the process, changed her wardrobe, changed her taste in music, started hitting the breathmints, registered for classes again, locked out her phone, started hanging out with friends I never was allowed to meet, etc...

All those things are flags; if it hasn't already been physical it will soon be. But regardless, she is lost to you until she chooses to snap out of it (unlikely) or a hard dose of reality smacks her upside the head. I have read dozens of threads, and those who seem to have the best luck are the ones who are the most decisive and strong-willed; they don't hesitate to hurry her out on her own and then go dark. Make it absolutely clear that R is over as long as their is OM involved, and that includes friendship too. She is not your enemy but she is no longer a friend. Think someone who works in same building but whom you don't socialize with and has a boyfriend.

Good luck...


Me37, W30, S7
Married 10yrs 05/11/04
ILYBINILWY 22/09/13
Disc. OM1 26/09/13
Disc. STD from OM2 03/02/14
Affair Confession 21/06/14

W and I share same apartment (for a few more days).
W isn't pushing for D.

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Originally Posted By: Casey
FWIW, my WAW started exhibiting the same behaviors before she gave me the ILYBINILWY speech. Read some other stories on this forum and you will soon realize that you could probably cut and paste and it would match your situation almost perfectly. My WAW had a beautiful figure before, but she works out fanatically now and lost her best assets in the process, changed her wardrobe, changed her taste in music, started hitting the breathmints, registered for classes again, locked out her phone, started hanging out with friends I never was allowed to meet, etc...

All those things are flags; if it hasn't already been physical it will soon be. But regardless, she is lost to you until she chooses to snap out of it (unlikely) or a hard dose of reality smacks her upside the head. I have read dozens of threads, and those who seem to have the best luck are the ones who are the most decisive and strong-willed; they don't hesitate to hurry her out on her own and then go dark. Make it absolutely clear that R is over as long as their is OM involved, and that includes friendship too. She is not your enemy but she is no longer a friend. Think someone who works in same building but whom you don't socialize with and has a boyfriend.

Good luck...



BINGO.


Card, all the warning signs are there. Please be careful, and protect yourself. Is an affair a dealbreaker for you, or could you overcome it if she were to agree to work on the marriage with you?


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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I could overcome it if she was willing to put in all of the work. But I know the strategy varies depending on what's going on. I've begun contacting PI's


Me 38, WAW 30
D11 (former marriage)
S2
T 8 years
M 3 years
BD 8/20/23
S 8/20/23
Joined: Feb 2014
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What do you hope to accomplish with the PI? -- I'm not taking a stand either way, but...
- You can spend a lot of time and money determining what you already know to be true. (or strongly suspect)
- What will you do with any evidence? Confront? Do you know how that usually works out?
- Is it worth anything to you (legally speaking) in a D case in your state to establish adultery?
- Do you know what the requirements are in your state to establish adultery?

Just saying that you should start coming up with a plan, Card.

Start thinking through how you will use your time and play this out.

Having evidence of an A may not turn out to be worth anything to you legally, and it can be a huge, painful distraction to doing something that can actually help your situation.

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You most likely already know in your heart what the answer is going to be. Do you really need to see a photo of her having sex with OM before you decide to remove her from your friendship?

She already told you the ILYBINILWY speech. Does it really matter why? Your next reaction should have been "sorry you feel that way; hope that leaving me and our family will bring you the happiness you are lacking with me." Then go dark until she comes to you and apologizes for the pain and sorrow she caused for you. That might never happen but in the meantime you will be moving on with your life and improving yourself.

Right now you are her backup plan in case her OM doesn't work out. Your job is to yank the rug out from under this illusion and make yourself into someone she would be a fool to leave.


Me37, W30, S7
Married 10yrs 05/11/04
ILYBINILWY 22/09/13
Disc. OM1 26/09/13
Disc. STD from OM2 03/02/14
Affair Confession 21/06/14

W and I share same apartment (for a few more days).
W isn't pushing for D.

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You most likely already know in your heart what the answer is going to be. Do you really need to see a photo of her having sex with OM before you decide to remove her from your friendship?

She already told you the ILYBINILWY speech. Does it really matter why? Your next reaction should have been "sorry you feel that way; hope that leaving me and our family will bring you the happiness you are lacking with me." Then go dark until she comes to you and apologizes for the pain and sorrow she caused for you. That might never happen but in the meantime you will be moving on with your life and improving yourself.

Right now you are her backup plan in case her OM doesn't work out. Your job is to yank the rug out from under this illusion and make yourself into someone she would be a fool to leave.


Me37, W30, S7
Married 10yrs 05/11/04
ILYBINILWY 22/09/13
Disc. OM1 26/09/13
Disc. STD from OM2 03/02/14
Affair Confession 21/06/14

W and I share same apartment (for a few more days).
W isn't pushing for D.

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Posts: 6,810
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Originally Posted By: zew
What do you hope to accomplish with the PI? -- I'm not taking a stand either way, but...
- You can spend a lot of time and money determining what you already know to be true. (or strongly suspect)
- What will you do with any evidence? Confront? Do you know how that usually works out?
- Is it worth anything to you (legally speaking) in a D case in your state to establish adultery?
- Do you know what the requirements are in your state to establish adultery?

Just saying that you should start coming up with a plan, Card.

Start thinking through how you will use your time and play this out.

Having evidence of an A may not turn out to be worth anything to you legally, and it can be a huge, painful distraction to doing something that can actually help your situation.


Wise advice.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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You most likely already know in your heart what the answer is going to be. Do you really need to see a photo of her having sex with OM before you decide to remove her from your friendship?

She already told you the ILYBINILWY speech. Does it really matter why? Your next reaction should have been "sorry you feel that way; hope that leaving me and our family will bring you the happiness you are lacking with me." Then go dark until she comes to you and apologizes for the pain and sorrow she caused for you. That might never happen but in the meantime you will be moving on with your life and improving yourself.

Right now you are her backup plan in case her OM doesn't work out. Your job is to yank the rug out from under this illusion and make yourself into someone she would be a fool to leave.


Me37, W30, S7
Married 10yrs 05/11/04
ILYBINILWY 22/09/13
Disc. OM1 26/09/13
Disc. STD from OM2 03/02/14
Affair Confession 21/06/14

W and I share same apartment (for a few more days).
W isn't pushing for D.

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I officially signed the PI contract today. I'm not too worried about the money. Once we sell the house I will have no bills for a while.

A few responses and follow-up questions:

- I actually don't know in my heart what the answer is going to be. My best guess is that she's not, but everyone else thinks she is (and I do see the red flags, too). I don't strongly suspect that she's having an A. There are lots of red flags, but there's also some evidence that suggests she's not (she's going to church with me, she has invited me over once a week or so, it SEEMS like she's had reduced contact with OM the last 4 weeks). So I really have no idea what's going on. I don't know if I should be going dark or "testing the waters" occasionally. Today we had a light and breezy text conversation that reminds me of the texts that Thornton exchanged with his W in early July. Other days she blows off plans with me and D she previously agreed to in order to hang out with friends I'm not allowed to see.

- How do you guys normally see confrontations play out? The suspected OM also has a W and 2 kids. I would probably tell his W as I've heard that can help speed up the ending to the A. If it's happening, he's probably just using my W for sex (even if he thinks he's in love) and would possibly abandon the A if his W knew and threatened a D or something.

- I do not want to see a picture of them having sex and don't expect to. Surveillance will only be outside of buildings since I have no access or authority to plant cameras in her apt. So all I would potentially see, unless they have some type of publicly viewable sex, is hand holding, kissing, going to a hotel, staying late at her apt, or something. At least that's what I suspect. If they come to me with evidence, I will tell them I don't want to see any sex pictures.

- She did apologize to me 2 weeks ago. She said she's so sorry for doing this to me.


Emotionally I've been up and down, but mostly up (relatively) since I read DR. But my head is spinning about my sitch. I don't know if I should be going dark or testing waters. I do know I should be 180-ing, detaching, GAL and having no expectations. I have been a friend to her (without pursuing or initiating too many conversations) as others have instructed, but if she's having an A that would have to change. I would also want to make sure the OM is not spending time with my D.

Last edited by Card29; 08/22/14 08:42 PM.

Me 38, WAW 30
D11 (former marriage)
S2
T 8 years
M 3 years
BD 8/20/23
S 8/20/23
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On a weekend trip with D, visiting with SIL (W's sister) and her H and son. My D2 is being really cute and smart, and all I can think of is how she deserves to spend time like this with both her mother and father. This is killing me right now


Me 38, WAW 30
D11 (former marriage)
S2
T 8 years
M 3 years
BD 8/20/23
S 8/20/23
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Had a convo with SIL, who has talked to WAW a few times in the last few weeks. She said WAW is excited about the apt and seems to have shut the door. Nothing I didn't know, and SIL hasn't read anything from DR, DB or any other marriage recovery system or service, but it still has brought me further down. I know, don't believe anything she says and less than half of what I see. I know my WAW is not totally happy. She has started seeing a counselor weekly for her depression.

Before she moved out she said it was so hard because we're best friends. This I do believe. We're the best friend either of us has ever had, we just haven't spent enough time together, especially the last 2-3 years.

Another memory I'm clinging to to remind me of how she felt was when I dropped her off at the airport for her France trip. She gave me a super warm goodbye at the airport. When I picked her up 2 weeks later she wouldn't even look at me. She will never convince me that there was nothing between us.


Me 38, WAW 30
D11 (former marriage)
S2
T 8 years
M 3 years
BD 8/20/23
S 8/20/23
Joined: Aug 2014
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Card29,

I know how you feel; my W has also tried to convince me that none of what happened in our marriage was real; that she never really was in love with me and all those photos/memories were just acting on her part. I know otherwise but it hurts nevertheless; like having a limb amputated.

I think that the pain we go through in this regard is similar to the pain and distress a loved one of someone with Alzheimer's goes through. You cannot help but see the person as they were when you look at your spouse, but the mind is gone and everything you once had with them might as well have never happened because they are unable to remember it.

For me, the happiest memories from our marriage were from when I was on leave from deployment in Iraq and my W and I were staying at a resort on the shores of Lake Issyk Kul in her country. A high altitude lake surrounded by mountains, like Tahoe but several times larger and even more beautiful. I know that those memories were not fake, and that once we were in love. Even if she refuses to acknowledge it, I know that it happened.


Me37, W30, S7
Married 10yrs 05/11/04
ILYBINILWY 22/09/13
Disc. OM1 26/09/13
Disc. STD from OM2 03/02/14
Affair Confession 21/06/14

W and I share same apartment (for a few more days).
W isn't pushing for D.

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I have very find memories of our beginning 10 years ago, and plenty of others over that time, but the best is probably this past fall. We had our best "us only" trip ever, our sex life was better than ever, I was in the process of really falling back in love with her after a long drought of feelings, and I specifically remember her saying: "this is the best spot we've ever been in". That was less than a year ago. At the end of 2013 she was itching for child #2, complimented me everyday (how I looked, how I sounded singing to daughter, piano playing, how I was doing at work). Then we don't spend more than a few minutes together in 2014 once our schedules went haywire, and now she thinks none of that happened. I refuse to believe her, and I can only hope and pray she "comes out of the fog". Even if she's having an A, I will fight for her until it's obvious she will never seek reconciliation. I don't need her for me to be happy, but us living happily together is the best case scenario, so that's what I'll pursue first, simultaneous to eliminating any codependency I have related to her.

An aside: we have strictly followed the rule of making our D sleep alone, but tonight I get to sleep with her since we're in a hotel room with only one bed. She is a sleeping ball in the middle of the bed with glow in the dark PJs. About to cuddle up to her! smile


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Got back in town today and spent several good hours with WAW working on the house. We really had a good time, lots of laughter. Had lunch together. She complimented and thanked me for taking initiative on a few things with the house and our D (one of the things I've struggled with over the years in our R is taking initiative and following through).

After she was back at her apt, we had a fun, 1/2 hour long text conversation. She initiated most of the conversation and friendliness today. I knew she was coming over to help with the house, but I had no expectations for how it would go. I knew it was possible she'd want to work on separate floors of the house, and for her to just tune me out and listen to music. But instead it was a wonderful day. Honestly, it was probably the best quality time we've spent together since last fall when we were on our "us only" weekend trip.

I told her that Sunday Night Football was on TV tonight (we both like watching football). She was excited that I told her, and she kept the convo going. I felt like I could have asked to come over and watch part of the game with her, but I did not ask. Instead, I stayed home and knocked out a couple more house projects that she'll be impressed with when she comes back on Tuesday.

I'll take today for today and have no expectations for tomorrow.


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Card,

Casey's advice for you is spot on. I went through all of the same things. Your wife fell out of love with you, just as you did once with her. The difference is that, during this time, she met someone that made her feel special and adored. I'm making a big leap here in insinuating an affair, but in my opinion there is at least an emotional affair going on. People in affairs are addicted to the feelings that they get from the OP, and like any addict, they don't want the source of their addiction to be taken away. This is one of the primary reasons that the A is kept secret- they don't want anyone to interrupt it.

If you do find out that this OM that you suspect is, in fact, involved with your W, I'd inform his spouse immediately. You must do what you can to help separate your W from the source of her addiction (OM) and speed the end of the A. In the meanwhile, continue to be a great husband. Do not let her drag you into any arguments, fill her love bank balance as much as you can.

-HS

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Thanks for the boost, Hopeful. That is definitely my plan of action. I already have OM's W's number and address. I'll try to wait patiently on the PI and hope for the best. She definitely at least had an EA going with him back in May/June, even if he didn't realize it. I haven't talked about it in this thread, but I was absent-mindedly in an EA last year. The OW wasn't overtly flirty with me, but we talked more and more, we started going to lunch together (we worked together), etc. But a few months into that, I was talking to her husband, and he said he had suspected we were having an A because she talked about me all of the time (just like my WAW did about OM 3-4 months ago, before she became cold towards me). I was shocked, and at that moment I realized the danger of what we had been doing. From that point, I minimized contact with her, and they moved out of state soon after.

I know she is going throw a more intense version of that now, so I am hoping the fog breaks for her sooner rather than later. After she dropped the bomb on my, I did some clumsy snooping. Before I was caught multiple times and she locked her phone, I found him texting her constantly. It was almost always related to their school projects, and I didn't find a single text that was out of line ON IT'S OWN. But the sheer volume was alarming. And it was all hours of the day, even middle of the night (although my W didn't respond then as she was asleep). She said he did that because he likes to stay up late to work on his share of the projects, and then he sends out updates. I called OM (2 months ago now) and told him to cease the excessive texting. Hopefully it had the same effect on him that the guy had on me last year. If my prevailing belief is correct, that she's not having an A, I'm hoping that the EA has dwindled. She claimed, without provocation, that she barely spoke to OM between semesters, a 4 week break. If that were true, it would be a great sign. I don't believe or disbelieve that statement - I'm choosing not to pay attention to it.


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I would also like to report a successful "microgoal" that I made when I read through DR in early July. A short term goal was for her to allow me to go to spinning classes with her again. She used to beg me to go (months ago), but I hated it so I usually didn't. I've recently begun to enjoy them (the first 10 classes suck, then it gets better, so you have to push through those). but in June and early July, she wanted absolutely nothing to do with me in those classes. She agreed to go with me to one for the first time 2 weeks ago. 3 days ago, I told her I was going to a class tonight. I didn't even openly invite her to it. But she told me yesterday while we were working on the house that she would be there, too. She asked me about it again today to confirm if I was going.

So, Goal complete! I know it's a tiny victory, but I think it's good for me to recognize tiny victories since this is going to be a long road of them if we do make it.


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W shot down a potential trip to see her favorite comedian today. I bought tickets a while back. Since the BD, she said there's no way she's going. Things have been more and more friendly with us, so I was hoping that she would be okay with the trip in mid-Sept (yes, I know, no expectations...). I wasn't going to bring it up until the weekend before, and planned on doing so casually, like, "I'm going to see him this weekend. If you still don't want to go I'll take someone else." But today she preempted that and said she is definitely not going, to go with someone else. I didn't respond negatively or disappointedly. I know I shouldn't, but I'm still holding out a little hope that she'll be open to it in 3 weeks.

Just journaling this.


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Journal: I don't think I initiated contact with her once today, yet we talked all day. Most of the convo was about house and finances. But she also talked to me about her fantasy football draft and the music from our spinning class last night. Just making sure I journal the micro victories, as that would not have happened during the 6-8 weeks after BD.


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YAY!!! take the win!!


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
D: 7
Bomb: 6/30/14
Separation: 8/11/14

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Down again today. Had to go visit D at daycare just to make it through the work day (it helped smile ). I have not been able to detach nearly as well this week because we are coming down to the deadline of our house, so any available time I have is spent working on house repairs. Just trying to make it through the weekend. I'm very excited about salsa dancing on Monday! I've never done anything like that, so maybe I'll hate it, but we'll see.


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More journaling.

Had some fun with WAW today at house, alone together. But we're both burnt out with the house, and now D2 is sick. I have this sinking feeling she is going to file for D when we sell the house. Maybe it's just my latest depression talking. Kind of felt like I was being amputated today sorting through our stuff, reading loving cards she gave me in recent years. I would pay anything to go back in time and slap me upside the head, to tell myself to wake up and see what was slowly decaying.

I know, I know, the past is over, and it's not the things that made me happy but the events and relationships surrounding them. I am just hoping she is still in her "fog" and is not clearly set on filing. We are best friends and very, very compatible. We just need more time together. But there is no convincing her of that, so I haven't brought it up in over a month now. But I am journaling what I think we should do differently if she ever does ask me, if she doesn't just drop the final hammer.

I was also drug a little down this evening at a friend's house. We were best friends from the ages of 12-20, but we grew apart as I settled down with W. He and his friends are still classic bachelors, drinking and partying every weekend, smoking weed (I never did that, and is the main reason I stopped hanging around). I went over to their house (5 single 30-yr-old guys living together for the last 7 years) for another fantasy football draft (I really don't like fantasy football, but I get roped back into the same leagues every year). It was depressing. My dream is a family, together in one house, married til death do us part, etc. That has always been my dream. I'm terrified that if we do get BigD, I'll end up like that. It just seems so empty.

Still excited about salsa lessons. I don't want to think about WAW, house, or anything during that hour. I just want to DETACH, but it's impossible right now with all of this house work with the realtor deadline rapidly approaching.

Last edited by Card29; 08/30/14 11:21 PM.

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Today we went to church together, but something strange happened. She came over to the house before church and seemed to be in a really bad mood. I did not push any buttons I knew would aggravate it, basically just gave her space. I know she had a rough night with D2 (both are under the weather a little), and she is way behind on a paper for school. 10 minutes into the church service, I noticed that her mood was worse. I could just feel her pain after being with her for 10 years. She began shaking her foot, which she does right before she cries, then she grabbed her purse and left. I did not chase, but instead kept an eye on my phone. I stayed the rest of the service (about 45 minutes), then picked up D2 from childcare and found W crying in the car (or she had recently stopped).

I didn't ask her what was wrong because I knew she wouldn't want to talk about it. I just told her to take care of herself and don't worry about the house today if she had something else she could do that would help her (we were supposed to go from church back to the house and continue working on it). She said she wanted to work on the house. We grabbed lunch, ate together at home and things settled back down with her. We had a few more laughs around the house. But it is obvious that she is in tremendous pain. She has struggled with depression for years. That is at a near all-time low right now, she is stressed about school, and I'm sure she is feeling guilt about what is going on with our family. And since I once fell out of love with her, I can empathize with how hopeless it feels that you can ever fall back in love. I totally believe what people say about the WAW feeling 3x's the pain as the LBH.

I wish it wasn't true that there is no reasoning with a WAS. I know we could rebuild love with time and effort, and that it would probably be the best decision of her life, if she looked back on it in the distant future. I also wish I could tell her that there is no risk in trying - that if it doesn't work, we could move on in a few months knowing we really did try. But I know that that is a futile, even damaging convo to have with her, so I will not utter a single word of it. It's just hard not to do knowing that all of our dreams are still there for the taking, they just need courage, effort and time.


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It's so hard to stand by while someone is in pain knowing they are the only ones who can really get themselves out of that pain.

I think it's really admirable that you're noticing that she's in pain and depressed and stressed. She's facing a lot I'm sure.

I think patience is one of the greatest struggles through this journey. Just when I think I'm settled in and can wait forever, I get itchy and want answers and to reason and present options and make promises and suggestions...

Stay the course.


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
D: 7
Bomb: 6/30/14
Separation: 8/11/14

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Thanks for the support, Ss. I will be following your progress and praying for you.

I'd like to journal one of my failures lately: We've spent a lot of time around each other working on the house lately. For the most part I think I have been detached, light-hearted, friendly and funny. But a few times I was just really feeling down (finding old pictures from when she was crazy about me, etc.), and I let it show through my expression. This violates part of Rule #15 and all of Rule #19:

15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.


I just played it off saying I was a little tired from whatever activity I just did, and try to turn it back to a smile. So, note to self: Fake it 'til you make it! Act happy!

Last edited by Card29; 09/02/14 05:34 PM.

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Card,

I just want to gently encourage you to not be so hard on yourself. You not having a pleasant expression on your face does make this interaction a "failure". You're human all the time, not just part of the time so you're going to make some mistakes here and there. It's not a failure.

Be nicer to yourself. More accepting. This will allow you to be more accepting and understanding of WAW's mistakes, too.


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
D: 7
Bomb: 6/30/14
Separation: 8/11/14

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Thanks for the encouragement smile I'm not beating myself up too much over it, and not getting down when I do screw up. I know that neither an isolated positive or a negative interaction with WAW is going to push us to the BigD or ultimate reconciliation. I just wanted to document this "failure" because I've done it a few times over the last couple of weeks. I don't want to make it a habit! It also went to my "cheat sheet" note on my phone that I read every day. My (intended) daily reads are:

- "Cheat sheet" on phone with notes on what I want to focus on every day
- Sandi's 37 rules
- The 4 or 5 DO's/DONT's from successful DBers in MWD's DR book. I have pictures of those pages on my phone

Last edited by Card29; 09/02/14 06:15 PM.

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Journal:

Well we are pretty much done with the house rework and it looks phenomenal. Realtor came over today and we filled out paper work. Everything was fine and I was happy (I've been pretty happy for 2-3 days). But I got a little down when we stood me to each other, looking out the front door watching the realtor plant the sign in the yard. It just became very real again.

A couple of days ago, she expressed great interest (maybe even a masked skepticism) of my recent activities, especially sexually. Obviously I'm not currently in or pursuing an sexual encounters (unless there is a dramatic change with WAW). She saw the book No More Mr. Nice Guy on my table, which has a subtitle that includes how to get what you want sexually. That, along with some 180's, I think, really had her attention. She asked about some of it in a laughing, light-hearted way ("So, thinking of any plans or have any hopes with any girls with all of this? :)"). I said, "Well, yeah." She responded, "What?? really?" She still had a smile, but I felt like she was genuinely concerned. I just smiled back. She prodded again and asked, "with who?" I said, "You", and she laughed, smiled and said, "Okay"

Obviously I didn't see that as a guarantee or anything, but it made me hopeful for the direction we're going at the moment. Micro victory, of sorts. Trying to have no expectations. Although since then I've had the urge to grab and kiss her when we've passed by each other smile

So anyway, I was on a high since then, but am a little down now that the house is officially listed. She did give me a super warm hug and asked if I was okay. She thanked me for working so hard on the house. I walked her out to her car and made sure I gave her a warm smile, which she reciprocated.

Okay, it's been a fun few days with WAW, but I'm probably not going to see her for a few days now (she has school after work and on Saturday). Time to get back to DETACH! Especially now that the house is pretty much off of my plate (aside from keeping it clean at all times). As far as detach recently, I missed the salsa class because I was given a free ticket to a big football game. But it was a good detach, anyway. Had a great time with BIL.


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Just to note, one of her out-of-town friends was here on Monday, just to stop by while she was driving through town. We had lunch with her. After we finished eating, I went back to work in the garage while WAW and her talked in the kitchen. They talked quietly. I didn't pry about their convo. But later WAW basically told me what they talked about. She said her friend was comparing us to her (friend's) sister, who was recently divorced. Said it was nasty, they aren't talking, etc. My WAW made sure to tell her that we're not getting a D right now, that "we're just chilling right now". Obviously I know we're at that point, it still is uplifting everytime my WAW confirms she is not considering D. Of course who knows what she's really thinking, but I'm not going to try to mind-read, pry, plead, urge, suggest, or anything else. Been down those roads enough over the last 3 months to know they don't work and are very painful to get off of.


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One other nugget from the realtor meeting I'd like to document.

She is the same realtor we bought from 5 years ago, so she remembers us and the house. I have spoken with her about various issues over the last 5 years. As she was leaving, she turned and said that she is so glad to see that we're friendly. She said that the day before, she had to show a house to the parents of a girl who is out of town but moving back. They are divorced, have been for years, and are both remarried. But they still can't stand to see each other, so she had to meet them at the house separately. She said, "You guys have a great relationship", to which my W replied, "Yeah, I think so, too."


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Whatever happened with the PI? confused


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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No word yet. She has been with me most of the time since I hired him (them), but of course if she's in an A she would find time for that. I told the PI I don't want a report on her whereabouts, just contact me if you have hard evidence or need something from me. I didn't hire him so I could know what she's up to at all times

I rarely think about PI now. It has really helped me detach as I don't feel like I have to scrutinize, mind read and snoop. I know I probably didn't have to do that stuff, anyway, but I have a different strategy if an A turns out to be real. I would still want to work on R, when/if she's ready, but in the meantime I would not want to see or talk to W until A is over. I found it impossible not to drive myself crazy wondering about it before PI.

I'm back to leaning that there isn't one going on, but also not giving it too much thought at this point. Just working on me, focusing on D2, being a great friend anytime W reaches out, praying, working out, spending time with friends (new and old) and thinking of anything else I can work on. I'm also, without expectations, preparing a plan for if she does open the door to work on R. I just don't want to be caught empty minded if she suddenly asks, "So how might we go about fixing it?"


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Originally Posted By: Card29
No word yet. She has been with me most of the time since I hired him (them), but of course if she's in an A she would find time for that. I told the PI I don't want a report on her whereabouts, just contact me if you have hard evidence or need something from me. I didn't hire him so I could know what she's up to at all times



Gotcha -- makes sense. Thanks!


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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My goodness this emotional roller coaster...I've never felt anything like it. I've never been this high or this low, never switched between the two so frequently, and NEVER for this long of a period. I wake up and could be depressed or feel like I'm going to conquer the world. At some point in the day, I'll be at the exact opposite point on the ride and feel like I'm never going back to where I was earlier in the day. Then I'll swing back a few hours later. One hour I know I'll have every opportunity to live a wonderful life and provide one for my D2 regardless of WAW's decision. Then I feel like I won't be able to breathe again if she files. Today my roller coaster is my desire for contact. I went all day with no contact and no desire to contact her. Then 8:00 pm hits and I want to pour my heart out to her and am resisting every urge to text.

Trying to stay the course. I did get back on track at the gym this afternoon, WITH D2 in tow, after a 2 week hiatus due to an injury and then house projects.


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I've felt amazing all day. Haven't initiated contact in 2 days except for a question about the house sale. This is the most detached I have felt since BD. Went for a trail run in the park after work. Trimmed up my beard and hair and feel very good about how I look. I wish I could just lock into this feeling indefinitely. I feel like I'm ready to go to work on the R with my W, I'm ready to move on with my own life if she files, yet I am still full of patience waiting for her to get out of her fog and figure out what she wants to do. Feels great.


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^^^ All of that is awesome! I love it. Way to go!

Now the trick is to hold on to it!!!

I'm impressed and so happy for you!


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
D: 7
Bomb: 6/30/14
Separation: 8/11/14

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Meeting WAW at church today and handing D2 over to her. For the last month+, we have spent Sundays together working on the house. The house is done now, so she has no reason to come over here. I haven't seen her since Wednesday. Ive been pretty well detached but last night I dreamed about her and now I am missing her badly. I'm trying not to have expectations but I really hope she invites me to do something today. I know I shouldn't be thinking about that but am not doing a good job of running from the thoughts.


Me 38, WAW 30
D11 (former marriage)
S2
T 8 years
M 3 years
BD 8/20/23
S 8/20/23
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