How HER crisis changed ME

[Mighty]

I agree with you guys. I had a part in the breakdown of our marriage. I am up for the challenge of facing the mistakes I've made. I had clarity soon after bd which was a mirror image of damage I had done. I faced those and talked with xh about those things. I apologized. I have since discovered more things. Not just mistakes, but things I could have done better or improved.

Please don't see me coming across as being unaccountable. I understand what your are saying and value it, too. That's why I come here.

I guess I associate the word "demise" to the nuke in my r. Something that took any last thread of hope or attachment that there was and burned it to ashes. It was dead. That is my recent realization.

Again, I have to look at the big picture here. I understand what you guys are saying. The whole communication thing... I still have a lot of work to do. A long way to go.

I guess I feel that, since the nuke, I don't have much to say. Nothing that xh would value. So I don't find it necessary to go out of my way to establish a friendship of sorts (as sad as that makes me) since I am not seen as any value to him.

I guess the word "demise" was taken differently for me. I see what you guys are saying. I hope you can understand the context in which I was using it.

I am aware I have a long way to go, yet. I am facing it, one step at a time. Maybe someday I will feel differently.

I didn't mean to hijack. I guess seeing what Tad is feeling makes me scared that I will still be feeling this way down the road. I totally understand how he feels. I feel for him to have to continue to deal with that.

Maybe that's the point? What do we need to do to not have to "deal" with it? Hmmm... sometimes the light bulb start to glow as I type.

My apologies, Tad, if I am hijacking. I am looking for opportunities for growth. Sorry it had to be on your thread.

[tadpole1025]

No apology needed Mighty. There is a lot of good stuff here. Let's see if I can dive in and take a stab....

Avoidance isn't dealing with it.

You may be right but dealing with it is different than dealing with her. I can forgive (eventually), but even when I have forgiven her, I will still not be her friend. I'm not going out of my way at functions to talk to her. Right before she moved out, she told me that we needed to be friends to work on our marriage. Seriously. Well, she hasn't done one thing to show that me that she wants to be friends. She HAS lied and cheated and made up stories about me. "Friends" don't do that.

What you want Tad requires you to become indifferent to her and not care...not care about the bad, and harder still not care about the good.

Please give credence to Bond. Actually put some thought into what he is saying Tad.

JAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!

Thanks for stopping by.

Indifferent. I love that word. That is what I'm striving for. I think maybe my whole view got twisted here a little bit. I guess what I'm trying to tell everyone is:

I simply do not care whether I ever talk to her again...or atleast getting closer to that point.

Everyone preaches no contact. Well, that is where I'm at. NO CONTACT AT ALL. She can say hello to me, and she'll get a hello back. That is all. Any "friendship" or conversation will be 100% initiated by her. I don't think that it's a bad thing, nor do I think that being that way makes me "resentful."

As for MrBond. I respect what he says and know that he is right most, if not all the time.

I don't know about you, Tad, but I find that it works for me to not talk to my ex. I am friendly, to the point, and answer legitimate questions as they arise. But after years of abuse from her and her husband, I'm not sold on the idea of one person being able to have a conversation, however polite. That's not about me - that's just how I choose to deal with it for now until I can find a different way. I can say I've tried to have a co-parenting relationship. That's just not possible if I'm the only one that is willing to find a way. Is that how it is in your case or are you the one holding things back for your own reasons?

Exactly AJ. I find it easier for ME, to be this way. The less I see or talk to her is better for ME. For some stupid reason, I still have feelings there....it's just better not to interact with her. Do I want her back? Hell no, but there are feelings. This site is about taking care of oneself. That is what I'm doing....what's best for ME.

As for co-parenting, my youngest will be 20 in December. There isn't much co-parenting left.

Down the road when my kids get married or have babies and the X and I are in the same place, I will be nice and speak to her, but ONLY if spoken to first. That is how it will be. For ME.

But to be honest, it's difficult to keep going back for more abuse until you have finished working on you, Tad.

Amen. Why put myself out there just to be abused and hurt again? No thanks. I'm done being hurt.

I don't know. I have no reason to go out of my way to talk to xh. At least, that's how I feel. This was his choice. Not mine. His decisions have caused our current sitch. Yup, I had part in what our r had become. But I will be damned if I say that I played a role in the demise of it. I would have done anything to, at least, work on it. Not just walk out without warning. Never. Not go to someone else and work on a new r. Nope. Not ever.

Well said Mighty. Like you, I would have done ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to save my M. ANYTHING.

Maybe I sound resentful. I'm ok with it. I am not mean to him. I would rather keep it at zero. Any doing in either direction will not be initiated by me. Doesn't mean it will stay like this, but it will unless he makes a change in the dynamic.

Again....well said. That is me 100%.

I don't find it necessary to go out of my way to establish a friendship of sorts (as sad as that makes me) since I am not seen as any value to him.

Exactly. What is the point? There isn't one. My X told me that I'm dog sh!t, terrible husband, blah blah blah. Ok. That's how she feels. Fine. I'm ok with that now, just don't expect me to be a friend.

As for me mentioning that she told S28 that I "ignored" her, it didn't bother me at all that she said that. I actually found it kind of funny. As I already stated, it goes both ways. Yes, I'll be nice and cordial if.........SHE initiates it. I'm not going out of my way for her. That's what works for me and that is how it's going to be. MY CHOICE because it works. As I stated above, I can forgive her.....but that doesn't mean I have to initiate any kind of dialogue. And just because I don't initiate, doesn't mean that I haven't forgiven her.

HAVE I forgiven her? No. Not yet. Still working on it.

I don't know....it feels like I have turned a corner in the last few weeks. Something is different. I just don't care. Before my son's show, I was really dreading it. I was dreading seeing her and hoping that I didn't have to talk to her. It was easier than I thought it would be. Maybe I am getting closer to being "indifferent." I'm not sure what it is.....

In other news.....I've been talking a lot to a woman at my work. She has the same passion for older music that I do. (Beatles, Doors, all the awesome Motown stuff.) She is 35 and I'll be 47 later this week, but we have tons in common. She has never been married and is cute as a bug.

Ehhh.....

Tad

P.S....will some of you check out Matt's thread? He's having a pretty hard time these days.

[beatrice]

Everyone plays a part in the demise of their M. Not taking responsibility for your own part is why many people can't save their M.

Mr Bond, please could you explain this a bit more please? I don't want to assume what you mean.

Tad apologies for the thread jack

[tadpole1025]

No apology needed.

I too, would like for him to explain this a bit more, but I THINK what he means is:

We ALL have things we could have done better. No marriage is perfect.

I know that there are plenty of things that I could have done better or differently.

Tad

[MrBond]

"Everyone plays a part in the demise of their M. Not taking responsibility for your own part is why many people can't save their M."
"Mr Bond, please could you explain this a bit more please?"

Sure. As much as LBS wants to believe that the WAS is entirely at fault, a M is made up of the push and pull of two people. What one person does affects the other. Each person in that relationship has their own set of beliefs, values, personalities, etc. There will always be conflict and disagreements between the two. It's how those disagreements are handled that determines if a M will grow or fail.

Over time it's easy to take the other person for granted. What you thought were once "cute" actions about your spouse, change into irritating ones. Even though that person's actions may not have changed, your perspective has. And rather than appreciating that part of the person that you thought was endearing, turns to snarky remarks which in turn makes the spouse shut down out of shame. Then when someone new comes along who recognizes and appreciates the "cute" action that the other spouse has taken for granted, the spouse gravitates towards the new person.

M is full of incidences like this. Then you add kids, work, money and it can be a recipe for disaster if not managed correctly by BOTH people. The door swings both ways.

You can never slice anything so thin that it doesn't have two sides to it.

[Wonka]

Bond,

You are correct to a certain degree.

Where I think differently is in the case of the MLCer when they just simply detonate the M into smitherens because of their own chit and they just won't listen to reason. Irrationality is the operative word here in MLC land.

One could say that the LBS needs to own up to the 50% of the equation in the breakdown. No way are they ever responsible for the complete and utter demise of the M because the MLCer just simply chose to run away.

I think this...

As much as LBS wants to believe that the WAS is entirely at fault, a M is made up of the push and pull of two people. What one person does affects the other. Each person in that relationship has their own set of beliefs, values, personalities, etc. There will always be conflict and disagreements between the two. It's how those disagreements are handled that determines if a M will grow or fail.

...applies to "rational" people in the simple WAS-LBS pairing in other forums. It just doesn't work at all for the MLCer who simply walks away and even torments their former spouses (i.e. Bea, AJ...etc) even years after the divorce.

The LBS couldn't even SAVE their own M's even if they've scored a couple of perfect 10's in the DB Olympics when it comes to the MLCer.

No dice.

[MrBond]

The thing with someone in MLC is that they tend to exaggerate issues that were there previously. Sure they blame alot of it on the LBS, but it stems from somewhere. Sometimes it's from real issues in the M, sometimes it's from their past. And let's be clear. MLC occurs in varying degrees in different people. Some can be talked to rationally, some takes some convincing of what the truth is and some change history altogether. The majority of people are the first two.

[GoatGal]

I have to chime in here too.

I believe that while it does take two people to make a marriage work, it really only takes one person to destroy it.

Does that mean I couldn't have been a better wife in many ways?
Not in the least.
And those things, as I have come to see them, are the focus of my self-improvement.

But I know that if I am guilty of doing anything destructive in our marriage, it was being trusting, complacent, and forgiving.

I trusted when I should have verified, I made allowances for his "depression" and "bad childhood".
I backed off when voicing my concerns about his emotional distance turned into manipulative arguments designed to deflect.
I BELIEVED HIM.

I was his wife and I believed that he had my best interests at heart.
I thought that's how it was supposed to be.

How was I to know that the wool was being pulled over my eyes? I didn't even know he was capable.


I am wiser now.

But I am no more responsible than I was before.
I was a trusting, loving, and loyal wife. I always treated him with respect and kindness.


Although far from a perfect mate, I am proud of how I conducted myself during our marriage, and (but for a few horrible weeks when I was out of my mind with shock and grief), I am proud of how I have conducted myself thus far.

I plan to live with as few regrets as possible, and to be honest, I do not hold any great regrets about my behavior in our R, other than I tend to believe the best of people, and my husband most of all.


If I feel I was anything, it was that I was a fool.

---(G)GGG

[MrBond]

"it really only takes one person to destroy it."

No. It takes one person to end it. No one is absolutely perfect in a M.

"But I know that if I am guilty of doing anything destructive in our marriage, it was being trusting, complacent, and forgiving. "

This seems like an oversimplification. Everyone (whether intentional or not) has hurt their spouse in one time or another. I'm not talking about full blown beating the other person, but a snarky comment here, a put down there...those are all destructive in varying degrees.

[LoisB]

...applies to "rational" people in the simple WAS-LBS pairing in other forums. It just doesn't work at all for the MLCer who simply walks away and even torments their former spouses (i.e. Bea, AJ...etc) even years after the divorce.

The LBS couldn't even SAVE their own M's even if they've scored a couple of perfect 10's in the DB Olympics when it comes to the MLCer.

No dice.

I'm with Wonka here. I think what you're saying Bond is very true and insightful when both partners are rational...but, add severe depression, addiction, MLC...whatever...if one person isn't dealing with a full deck, you still won't have a full set of cards no matter how hard you shuffle. And I, for one, shuffled really, really hard.