WAW still at home, 3 weeks after asking for D

[bdub]

Here is a little about my sitch. I am new to the board so bear with me. M15 T17. S10 and S13. I am 41 she is turning 40 in 20 days. 3 weeks ago W came to me and told me she wanted out. I got the ILYBNILWY speech, the I married the wrong person speech, the we will both be happier this way speech. We talked and we decided we needed to sell a few of our rental properties in order to pay down enough debt to make it financially feasable to have 2 households. We have agreed to work through the D respectfully and that we both want what is best for our children. I immediately started research and ended up with DB. Before I ever got the book I started doing 180s and acting as if. I snooped and found a new EA and immediately confronted. She agreed to stop. I snooped again and she again agreed to stop. I vowed to not spy anymore and I have not. I know the EA is ongoing, and infact OM has been to my house. The boys and I are active at the county fair and we camped there for a week. W came in on show days and left. As I was parking the camper I saw tracks in the dust that were obviously from a motorcyle. She said her friend was there with another OM and that her OM was there too. I accepted this and the next day asked for boundaries. The boundaries are no phone calls from inside the house and OM is not to be at the house again. She would not agree to my suggestion that she not communicate with him at all while at home. Any suggestions or comments on this sitch? I teeter back and forth emotionally. Initially her move out was when 2 of the 3 properties sell. Then we set it at 11-1-14. We set this firm date because she felt trapped. We have been to MC together and are going separate this week. First marriage for both of us, we both are professionals, and her summer off is coming to an end in a week. Then she goes back to work.

[Cadet]

Welcome to the board

Get out and GAL.

DETACH.

Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.

Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.

USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

[MrBond]

Have you read DB or DR yet?

[bdub]

Thank you. I have read DB and ordered DR. Currently I am 180ing a lot of things in my life. Being more open, more helpful, and available. With W still at home I have not started LRT. We are still in the same bed, however she has stated that she would be more comfortable in another room. We cleaned out the other room and were basically in the truck to go get a new mattress when she had a change of heart. That was 2 days ago.

[bdub]

I am currently struggling with setting boundaries. We agreed on all but one with the OM. She agreed to no phone calls in the house but would not agree to no communication while in the house. As I work through this, I am slowing coming to the conclusion that I cannot accept it. Currently I am being a "doormat". Accepting everything she throws at me. I am searching for a way to start making a stand. What does anyone think about this: We are cooperating very well right now re: splitting assets, talking about kids, and daily routines. She has even asked me to help her start looking for a place to live. Initially I said no, but 2 days later I backslid and told her what I thought were the best resources. We live in the country so rentals are hard to find. I am contemplating the following: I want to tell her that I cannot continue to help and support her with the split as i have been because her A is causing stress in her, stress in me, and confusion with the boys. To make the story even longer, I confided with my parents, who then talked to my brother who then talked with the friend she has been confiding in. This friend also has OM and W blew up on me last night because mom talked to brother who talked to friend. She was afraid friends H would find out and ruin their marriage. Do I let the dust settle on this, thinking maybe it caused her to see how much damage could potentially be done?

[Cristy]

First let me say that I am sorry for the situation you are in. It sounds like there are lots of questions that need to be addressed. I strongly urge you to speak to a Divorce Busting coach as soon as possible. There is much that can be done. Call me to discuss our coaching program. 303-444-7004

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[bdub]

We had a pretty serious talk last night. Still in the same house and same bed. For 15 yrs we did most of our talking as we laid down for sleep. Last night she was angry and emotional. S12 turned S13 today. I know this has been an issue for her. So, as we discussed the days events, and the plans for tomorrow it turned more emotional and more about our R. She pushed my buttons and I reacted. I told her that I didnt think I was going to be able to handle helping her the way I have been while her A was creating so much stress on all. I reaffirmed for her that I knew the reasons she was leaving and that I knew her memory of the last 15 years was negative and would continue to be that way. After she vented and attacked and blamed she calmed down. Her last words before drifting off to sleep were " I know I need to end the A but I cant bring myself to do it, and you cant force me to do it." I agreed with her and validated her feelings. This morning I feel better because I have finally stood up for myself.

[bdub]

Does anyone have any information on abandonment issues? My W was feeling stuck again last night, even though her parents and my parents have offered us money to pay off vehicle. (backstory: financially cant afford another place until $600 car payment is gone; it was her idea to stay until commercial real estate sells to get that $) I assured her that she was not stuck and that she had 3 options, none of which she accepted. She just wants to feel stuck and blame. So, I (unfortunately) wondered out loud if she could go to her mom and dads while the boys and I stay at home. She wants me to have the home, its part of my families farmstead. She said that was abandonment and she was advised she could never leave the house without the boys. I offered to sign papers saying whatever she wanted them to say to prove it was not abandonment. I then asked that if she left WITH the boys, would that be considered kidnapping and neither of us could come up with an answer. It was an honest question and not sarcastic or filled with anger. We had a 5 minute conversation about it and could not clear it up. I guess W and I are both naive and curious as to how this all works.

[bdub]

Things have calmed down a little since Tuesday and I have done better about not talking about OR or OM. I have decided that since I have my boundaries established and she seems to be accepting them, I MUST stop fixating on OM. We have been to the counselor together and as individual now, and we have consulted an estate planning attorney that is going to help us transfer some assets to our S10 and S13. I am continuing to work on my 180's and acting as if. Tonight is going to be tough because I will have too much down time and have been struggling to control my thoughts and maintain a PMA.

[Joe1981]

Ok, I'm no vet, but I've made a lot of mistakes in my situation. Slow down. Seriously, slow down. It's only been 3 weeks since Monday, not even a month. If you have decided that you're going to stand for your marriage and are going to try to use Divorce Busting to make this happen, awesome.

Read the books, read the forums. I wish I'd been here as early as you.

Ok. Get on the 180s. Make the priorities the ones that address issues she has pointed out having a problem with. Try to remember the guy she fell in love with.

GAL. It'll help you maintain patience.

Don't be so helpful to her in making the divorce happen. Let her face the reality she's creating on her own.

[SunnyB]

Slow down. Seriously, slow down. It's only been 3 weeks since Monday, not even a month. If you have decided that you're going to stand for your marriage and are going to try to use Divorce Busting to make this happen, awesome.

Read the books, read the forums. I wish I'd been here as early as you.

Ok. Get on the 180s. Make the priorities the ones that address issues she has pointed out having a problem with. Try to remember the guy she fell in love with.

GAL. It'll help you maintain patience.

Don't be so helpful to her in making the divorce happen. Let her face the reality she's creating on her own.

Agree. I'm no vet either, but three weeks is a very short time. My H has stayed 4 months after he first told me he intended to leave. He still says he is leaving soon, is apartment shopping, and he might walk out tomorrow. But he was in my bed last night. Every day that he stays is a chance that he'll see things differently. Don't be in a hurry.

[bdub]

Thank you for the great advice Joe. RPP, I count my blessings every day regarding our housing arrangment. We agreed to a no physical contact in bed rule. However, 3 nights in a row she has slid her leg over touch me, ever so lightly. I see this as our first baby step. I also expect that it will go away, and I am ok with it. I have decided that I really need to work on some mind control. I have been so focused on everything she does, and what it means, that it's driving me crazy. Any ideas on how to work on that?

[bdub]

Yesterday W was going to spend the evening with her SIL. She metioned that she was going to spend the night and asked my opinion.(20 minute drive home) I told her that she had never done that before and the boys might ask questions. She agreed and said she would just come home around 11 or 12. Mid day her plans changed to hanging out with co workers to celebrate the end of summer/school starting. I told her to have a good time and I spent a great evening with the boys. I woke up at 1:30 and she was not home so i sent her a text " it's pretty late, pls let me know you are ok". First communication since noon. She responded half an hour later that she was ok and she was getting ready to head home. When she arrived I asked if she had a good time. We talked briefly and I asked her politely if she could pls let me know if she was going to be out late the next time and she agreed. Thats something we have always done.
Through this whole evening I had done a great job not wondering where she was or who she was with. It would be very very easy to assume she was with OM but I think I may have finally figured out how to control my thoughts well enough to accept what she says and not mind read and jump to conclusions.

[bdub]

Yesterday was a tough day for me. W was dead set on telling the kids things were not right with us so I agreed to tell them. We spent half an hour reviewing a paper our counselor gave us and formulated a plan. We sat the boys down and explained to them some of the basics of what was happening. We are still in the same bed, and we used this opportunity to explain to them that W would be moving into a downstairs bedroom. S10 did not really comprehend and s13 cried and pouted. He eventually opened up and said he hoped this wasnt going to ruin his family. As of this morning he seemed to be in better spirits but seeing the hurt in him really hit deep with me. Naturally with emotions running high W and I continued to talk. She volunteered information to me. She told me she saw the changes I have made and even listed them. She hit on 5 of the 6 180's I have been working on. I can work on everything except the actual reason she is leaving. I have no idea if OM is in the picture, and I guess at this time it does not matter.
I saw a baby step last night, even though it took the pain of telling the boys some of what is going on, to bring it out.

[bdub]

On another topic, I still dont think she is dealing well with her relationship with the OM. I want so bad to talk to her mom and SIL. I think if they knew what was going on they could help her and maybe make it easier for her to see that the OM situation is making it nearly impossible for us to be honest and open while we deal with the kids and getting separated financially. Someone please 2x4 me on this one!!

[bdub]

We cleaned out the spare room and set up a bed frame. The idea was to get a mattress on Sunday. With the kids busy schedules its hard to find time to eat, let alone do anything for ourselves these days. I got a call from W early this evening. She was at a big box store and had bought a mattress for the new bedroom. She could not get it home in her vehicle so its sitting in the store on hold. She asked me if I could get it for her and bring it home. I told her I would let her borrow my truck to get it. I really cant see myself being strong enough emotionally to handle loading up and hauling home her new bed.

[bdub]

Things have been ice cold at home. We are struggling to get 3 sentences out between each other. Trying to get an appointment with an attorney, trying to get 2 rental properties sold, and trying to get 2 active boys to and from sports requires a LOT of communication. She has been pushing me to take the boys camping for a few weekends in september. She jumped to that topic again last night and we finally had a pretty decent 20 minute dialog. Of course I ruined that this morning when she told me she spent $500 on bedding for the new bed going in downstairs. We have 6 pillows upstairs on the bed and now have 3 downstairs. Along with a $ 280 comforter. I explained to her that the comforter on our upstairs bed, that we toss off the end of the bed every night, could be moved downstairs because I would not use it. She informed me she paid for it. I need to stop being so controlling.

[bdub]

Last night and this morning were tough for me. Being the nice guy that I am, I get to go pick up her mattress today so she can have her bedroom downstairs. Even though I know W has to get away, completely away, this step is just the beginning, It does not make it any easier. Very emotional last night and again this morning. Feeling her warm body roll out of our bed for the last time really hit hard. So now its time to suck it up and start standing for my marriage for real.

[bdub]

While soul searching yesterday I came to the conclussion that I could not handle dealing with the separation and with the OM at the same time. I decide to write a letter explaining my feelings and describing why I could not handle everything that has been put on me and still be peaceful, calm and collected. I asked politely that we establish a ground rule that we be home by 12 or 1 when we go out, so that the other could sleep and function properly. We have never been night owls and getting home at 3 am is totally new to both of us. With the boys still in the house I felt that it was important to all of us that we continue some source of normalcy. It is a big change that we are both going out separately, let alone coming in at 3am. I even mentioned that I am not asking for specifics, or that we even exchange information. She rejected my boundary and became angry with me because I was being controlling. I told her that I could not hold it all together emotionally if this boundary was not honored. Honestly, dealing with the separation,the OM and her being at home is too much. The stress from the OM could be almost completely eliminated if she would honor my boundary of coming home at a decent time. The discussion became heated and she said she needed to get out and I agreed. The place she wants to live is not available for at least 3 weeks, and we can't afford it anyway without the car being paid off. This morning I texted her the payoff for the car and she said she would talk to her mom about it. Since the time table for her leaving the home has been moved up from Nov.1 to 3 weeks from now, I told her that I was cancelling this weekends camping trip and that I we should sit down with the boys tonight and tell them more about our situation. She didnt seem to want to change her plans so I told her that I would talk with them myself but I hoped she would be there to present a united front. From day 1 we have said our goal was to make this as easy as possible for the boys and as "friendly" as possible for us. Meaning we would divide assets and set joint custody through a dissilusion and not a divorce. Since I have recently had this all dumped on me and it has destroyed me physically and mentally I think it is VERY important to inform the boys in small doses so they have time to process and adjust to each bit of information. So we will see if she comes home after work or goes out. Either way I have established a boundary with consequences and I am willing to stand by it. I am still focused on making it easier for the boys and making it civil for us at this time.

[MrBond]

She's right. You were controlling. Those weren't boundaries you stated. They were actions meant to control hers because YOU felt that you couldn't deal with this.

You can. You have to stop telling her that she NEEDS to do something or else you are going to go crazy, etc. That puts stress on her and makes her want to run away even faster.

Despite what she is doing, it's important to understand that YOU are the one destroying yourself physically and mentally. YOU have control over that. That's why the GAL is important. Get your mind off of her and back onto you. Get yourself healthy first.

You can do it.

[bdub]

I am still working on boundary vs control. How do I detach when she is still at home? I know she owns too much of my brain, an that her A has set up camp right in the middle of whats left of my heart. I have let my DBing slide alot. I have opened up to one of my best friends and we have been talking about everything. Of course he doesnt understand why I am doing what I am doing. His advise is to "grow a pair" and stand up for myself. Foolishly I started to try some of what he was saying and I certainly regret it now. I am back on my 180s and acting as if, and last night was not as bad as I thought it might be.

[bdub]

Detaching is starting to take hold. I no longer feel the need to be around her when she is home, and I no longer send 5 or 6 texts a day along with the occasional voicemail. This is the tough part because we have to communicate about our schedules, the boys activities, and we how we are splitting things up. Right now I have developed a budget for myself when she goes. Since I have been in charge of the money for so long she has no idea how to budget and she is "leaning" on me to help her. I don't think I will be able to fully detatch until she moves out and I am struggling with that right now.

[MrBond]

So what have you been doing on the GAL front?

[bdub]

Mr. Bond, I have been lacking on the GAL front. The only thing I have done is to talk to my close friends more, and to reach out to some friends that have slipped away a little. Other than that I took the camper to the local campsite with some friends. They have a special running where they allow you to leave your camper on site and can camp for 4 weekends in a row for 1 set price. This really doesnt count because the boys are with me when we camp. In fact the W said she planned on being there with us about half the time. It is fun and relaxing and allows me to get away some. Other than that we have soccer practice, football practice, getting ready for harvest, MC and IC appointments and a few meetings with attorneys. The W's 40th is this weekend and one group of our friends it taking her out Friday and the other is taking her out Saturday. That leaves me with the boys and our friends at the campsite all weekend. I know, excuses excuses. since BD I have been away from the house and the boys 1 evening, from 8-11. I need to get to work on it.

[MrBond]

"This really doesnt count because the boys are with me when we camp."

Why doesn't it count? GAL doesn't just mean going out with your buddies. You take the time to grow by doing activities that will help you to grow intellectually, physically, spiritually and emotionally.

[bdub]

Then I am not giving myself enough credit. I was assuming that GAL meant getting out and working on my social life. Camping with friends qualifies as that I guess. I figure that camping for the 4 weekends at the very least will give her space and allow me to not focus on DB and working on splitting up assets. The only complication is that she will be sleeping in the same bed as I am in the camper. We are both adults and should certainly be able to handle that for one night a week.

I am starting to see that even though so far this week we have done MC, or divorce counseling I suppose, and then the next night went to the attorney that will be doing our dissolusion, every day is getting easier. I have settled into a routine of getting home from running the boys around and sitting on our beautiful "party patio". If laundry needs folded or homework needs done I help with that and then I crack a cold one and sit outside and enjoy the serenity and the quiet of the late evening. The best part is that since I have started this little routine she comes to me to talk if she wants to talk. Before this I was almost following her around the house. Baby steps for both of us?

[MrBond]

GAL is to help you get stronger and become a different, better person. You change the things that your WAS didn't like and show her some new behaviors that make you stand out.

[bdub]

I am doing well at the new behaviors. I am doing laundry, helping with homework, doing some dishes and even some cooking. I have really become less controlling and I have become the king of compromise and validating. Almost to the point where she is sick of me validating. I now speak softly and make eye contact. I dont interrupt and I really listen to her. I ask her how her day was and then later that night or the next morning I bring up 1 specific issue that she told me was important to her. For example she says her day was fine but a co worker really ticked her off. That next morning i would say " I hope things get better between you and co worker" Sadly I cannot 180 what really matters. She is a WAW because I was not there for her emotionally. We became the "2 ships in the night" metaphor. I cannot 180 that with a WAW.

[bdub]

Mr. Bond, thank you very much for your time and input. I read alot of these forums and I see a lot of reallyl good advise you give to others and I appreciate you taking the time to help me with my sitch.

[bdub]

Yesterday was ver uneventful. We actually laid on my bed and watched a few tv shows we had recorded. Only small talk, nothing at all about the R or our S. It was nice. I didnt even read a book when she left. She said goodnight, walked out and I rolled over and went to sleep. This morning she briefly brought up splitting some assets. I bought some gold bars a few years back that are a great investment. Only a few thousand dollars worth. She wants to split them. I offered to keep my coin collection and she could have the gold. Nothing was settled. She then brought up the timing of the dissolusion filing. I am firm on waiting 6 months after she moves out she wants to do it when she moves out. Because of tax issues, unsold commercial propoerties and her A, I am firm on 6 months. I strongly think she needs to be out from underneith the security, shelter, safety, and comfort that I provide. I am thinking about offering to do it in 3 months if and only if she has proven NC with OM for 3 months. That way I will then know for sure she has given the proper focus and attention to what we are about to do. Now, Mr. Bond, and others, 2x4 me and tell me its controlling and serves no purpose. S13 had a soccer game last night while she was with S10 at another practice. She still has yet to ask me or S13 how the game went.

[bdub]

And just like that it all changes. She cancelled her plans to go out with friends of ours Friday night. She instead told me she was going to dinner. I asked her if it was with OM and she said yes. I told her that I could not accept that and that it crossed a major boundary. I said " When you do this I feel cheated, disrespected and trampled on" " If this does happen I will not be able to continue to cooperate with you as I have been". When she pressed for details I simply told her that I did not know how I would react, but I certainly would not be helping her the way I have been. After leaving the area for a few minutes she came back and said " it looks like I will sit her friday and stew about this, then go out Saturday and stew about this, and then go camping with you and the boys and stew about this" I said " we have major issues in our life and facing them is the only way to deal with them, they will not just go away" We decided that tonight we will sit the boys down and tell them most of what is going to be happening and use the weekend to help them cope and deal with the information.
I know this is not DB but I had to stand up for myself and I think I did it appropriately and I did it for the right reasons.

[bdub]

Strap in the rollercoaster ride is in full swing. As I pulled in to the drive last night I saw a mutual friends vehicle parked by the house. Knowing this mutual friend was not one to filter her words or sugar coat her messages I immediately tensed up. She left as I was walking to the house and W was on the back patio and asked me if I would sit down and talk. I figured the friend had ripped her ass about how W was acting, and that I was now going to get unloaded on. W proceeds to tell me that she is done with OM and that our friend had allowed her to see what she was doing and how it was affecting everyone. W cried, talked about her guilt and shame and how shes very upset and angry with herself for allowing it to happen. She apologized and I accepted. I immediately forgave her and the emotion she showed after that told me that she was not expecting me to forgive. I asked her if there was anything I could do to help he, and I told her that I thought it was important that she take time to forgive herself in order to take some of the stress off her. Afterwards we cooked dinner for the boys and I could visibly see that she was less tense, and I could see in her eyes that she was not carrying around as much pain in her heart. I do not know if she has even told him, and I am not asking for proof. I may ask her to write a NC letter but now is not the time. I know she will end it, but it will take a while for it all to stop. There was just a new sense of relief and peace in her that I have not seen since their R started. Now I have to make up for all the time I spent focused on the A when I should have been busy DB.

[bdub]

Had a pretty uneventful weekend after the rollercoaster ride of Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. We camped again with our friends and had a really good time. W went out with the girls from our circle of friends and celebrated her big birthday. She arrived at the campsite Sunday morning feeling pretty rough but I am certain they all had a good time. In order to help detach I kept busy with the boys most of the weekend and chose to stay home this evening while W and the boys went to mutual friends for swimming and a little cookout. I think I am going to find something to do Friday night and let her go to the camp with the boys since she has been spending a lot of time away from them. Since she said she was done with the OM she has not been on her phone texting and on facebook near as much and it has really made it a LOT easier for me to handle our split and her actions as a WAW. She looked at the house she is going to be renting and decided it was going to be ok for her. Not sure when she is planning on moving yet so as of now I still have time to work on 180s and preparing myself for her move.

[bdub]

I have recently discovered that I have been putting off a lot of little tasks around the house, and in life in general. I have started noticing these little things and taking care of them immediately. I have even made a small list. A lot of the items are simple things like straightening up a clothes drawer, or sorting a stack of magazines. I had no idea how much stress that had placed on me. As I clear a few of these items at a time, I feel relieved, and I feel a pretty deep sense of accomplishment. Has anyone else gone through this?

[bdub]

I have a question for anyone willing to listen. W has agreed to stop contact with OM. She is still living at home, though she has a place "rented" and is furniture shopping. I think she is hoping to be gone by Oct. 1. My question is this: How much, if any, proof can I ask for regarding ending her R with OM. It has been a HUGE issue for me and I was really relieved when she said she was ending it. Since then she has not said its over, but I have noticed that she is not texting or on Facebook or her phone. She acts better physically and emotionally also. However, I wonder if I can ask for proof. I worry that she has just gone under ground with it. I guess in the long run it doesnt matter much, because at least shes not flaunting it in front of my face anymore. If we were talking about trying to R I would request a NC letter and some sort of proof every few days for a while. However, she hasnt even moved out yet so I know I cannot go there right now.

[Wet]

Hi Bdub, I'm confused by your sitch, but I am sure that you are ttoo. She says she has ended it with OM, but she has still rented another place and will move out in October? Do I have this right?

If so, what is the main reason she is still planning on moving out?

I sometimes do negotiations, and it seems like you do not have a very good position to negotiate from. She can start right up with OM, or someone else for that matter, and there is not much you can do about it. She is already moving out. So you may want to try to explain to her that you do not have any trust right now with W, and so ask her what is she willing to do to show that she is not communicating with anyone else. But put it on her to see what she is willing to do. And see if she has any empathy for you and your lack of trust. If not, at least you will know. Good luck.

[Hoju]

Congrats bdub that sounds like a very positive turn of events.

I think before you proceed with any action you need to decide what your objectives are. What do you hope to accomplish by asking for proof? What do you stand to lose by asking for proof?

If she is still concerned enough about you and your feelings to try and hide the OM at this point then perhaps you should focus on that as a positive. Keep doing your 180s, continue to do the little things around the house that make you feel good and productive, become the man only a fool would leave. The proof your looking for will no doubt present itself through her continued actions far more so then anything she could provide to you.

[bdub]

Thanks Hoju. I need to give that question 48 hours. As for right now I am going to take it as a positive that she is more focused on me and the boys and less so on the OM. If he infact is still in contact, its not even 1/3 of what it was 4 days ago. I know it takes time to let all that excitement go and knowing W, she will let him down easy.

[bdub]

Hi Bdub, I'm confused by your sitch, but I am sure that you are ttoo. She says she has ended it with OM, but she has still rented another place and will move out in October? Do I have this right?

If so, what is the main reason she is still planning on moving out?

I sometimes do negotiations, and it seems like you do not have a very good position to negotiate from. She can start right up with OM, or someone else for that matter, and there is not much you can do about it. She is already moving out. So you may want to try to explain to her that you do not have any trust right now with W, and so ask her what is she willing to do to show that she is not communicating with anyone else. But put it on her to see what she is willing to do. And see if she has any empathy for you and your lack of trust. If not, at least you will know. Good luck.

Wet, she is leaving because our marriage fell apart. ILYBINILWY, dont know if I married the right man etc. etc. . We are not working on our R at this time and we both agreed to that. I/we think we need to separate for 3 to 6 months in order to really decide if we want to work on our R and try to build a new marriage. I worked hard to get the A stopped because she was neglecting the kids, adding stress to our life, and not seeing how tough the split would be. She was putting so much emotion into the OM that she had nothing left for the boys, her friends or even working on splitting our marital assets. When she told me she was ending it, it was a HUGE weight off both our shoulders. Shes smiling again, shes decent to be around, I am not a nervous wreck, I am more supportive, and I can get through a conversation with her now.
When she was still in the OR she was trying all she could do to get our dissolusion done before she was even able to find a place to live. She didnt want the guilty and bad feelings that went along with being married and having a EA so she tried to cram it through the system. Now we are at least back to our 3 to 6 month trial separation period and that means the world to me. In the end, I will know we have done all that we could and I will agree to the dissolusion.

[Wet]

Hi Bdub, I'm still trying to understand what your W is unhappy about in your marriage. Besides her OM, what is she unhappy about in your relationship that is causing her to seek an immediate divorce and moving out in October?

Did she serve you with divorce papers? It seems like you are working with her in moving forward with the divorce. Why not just let her do ALL of the work on the divorce? Delay it for as you can, instead of putting out an artificial (finances is not a good enough reason) 3 to 6 month period.

Keep your focus on your sons and helping them as best you can.

[bdub]

Wet, our marriage had never been that great. We had power struggle issues early on, then we both carried on EA at the same exact time, 7 years later. We went through counseling and got things back on track but we slid back into the same old ruts. I was controlling, took her for granted and she stopped communicating and withdrew from out marriage. Eventually this summer she dropped the bomb on me that she was not sure she loved me anymore. Then it went to "we married for the wrong reasons". She has had enough of our marriage and I cannot stop that. A few days after the BD she explained to me that she wanted to cooperate and work through a dissolution rather than a divorce. We dont hate each other. A dissolution in my state costs 250 bucks and the spouses can control how things are divided. Not only that, we are going to do shared parenting so I will have the boys half the time. On top of that, we have a pretty large amount of equity in farm ground and farm equipment. She decided that we should put the ground and equipment in a trust for the boys. This will allow me to continue farming and to pass the operation on to the boys. They will be the 6th generation to farm the ground.
Without knowing my finances you cannot possibly tell me that finances are ont a good enough reason for the 3 to 6 month period. However, as I have stated previously I think that if we are separated for that period of time we will have both had time to determine if we want to D or if we want to try to build a new R. In our R I provided safety, comfort, security,stability, and I took care of all the finances. We both earn the same money but I paid the bills and made the decisions about savings, investments and other issues. She was free to spend as she wanted and I never questioned her on that. She did not run us into the ground, but she certainly enjoys the middle class lifestyle. One of the biggest things I did not do was take care of our relationship and pay attention to her emotionally. I guess I am hoping that we will decide to R after a few months. I think the bond we have with the boys, and missing what we really did provide for each other will be enough to convince her to try to work on the things we were not doing. During that time I have to decide if I am in love with her, or if I am in love with the idea of being married and having a family. Honestly at this time I cannot answer that question and neither can she.

[bdub]

I have been very helpful with my W and her struggles with moving out. Last night she was stressed out bad about getting furniture, prepping to move and a few other things. I asked her to list exactly what was causing the stress and after she listed them I offered to take care of some of the minor ones like laundry and the small grocery list. She told me she could do it and that by starting to take care of some of those things I have almost taken away her identity. I have NO idea how to react to that so I just told her she would have to ask me to help her, since my help now seems to add to her stress.
I know she is struggling with how to pay for some new furniture even though she has had her own account and has been putting money in that account for several years. 3 days ago I would have offered a way out of the situation. Last night and today I have come up with 3 ways to easily accomplish what she wants to do. I will not mention any of them to her unless she flat out asks me what to do. Is this detaching or is that me being my usual A-hole self?

[SunnyB]

Is this detaching or is that me being my usual A-hole self?

bdub, I have no idea what the correct answer is, but I can tell you that I will offer my H zero assistance in the moving out department. He asked me for my opinion on his apartment and I declined to give it. Twice. I will not help him pack, move, decorate, nor will I change my schedule to accommodate his move. I don't plan to ever step foot in the place. If that makes me an *ss, then I'm OK with that.

[Wet]

Thanks Bdub for filling us in on some of the details of your sitch. Working on yourself and deciding what you really want in the future are very important things.

I mentioned the finances only because it seemed to be a driving force for the divorce. You are right, I have no knowledge of anything to do with your finances. I'm just suggesting that it seems like the divorce can be put off as both you and your W work on yourselves. Starting the divorce process can sometimes be like a runaway train, out of control for everyone.

[bdub]

thank you rppfl. I have to be very careful about this because I am a problem solver. At one time I told her I would help her with everything I could right up to the time the moving truck pulled up. Luckily for me she is not taking a lot of things out of the house. I did offer my unsolicited opinion about her new place to live because my boys are going to be spending half of their time in that house. I have not and probably will not walk through it, but I know where it is, I know who owns it, and I know the neighborhood.

[bdub]

Wet, the finances are not at all a reason for the D. We both earn really good wages and live a pretty good life. We are pretty heavily invested in assets that are not real "liquid" so unwinding from that is a huge undertaking. We have multiple pieces of commercial real estate. In order for her to get the cash she deems her half of the equity, 3 of them will have to sell. Being trapped at home by that would have to be frustrating, especially since I made the financial decisions. Her parents AND my parents have both offered to loan us the money to pay off her vehicle (600 a month, 3 years no interest)so that she can afford to pay rent and I can keep the house. She has declined both offers.

I would love to put off the D process but she is full steam ahead. She needs to get out on her own, I think to prove her independence. She told me she made this huge decision to leave me, and now she is stuck at home. I hate that, but again, she has had 3 people offer to help get her unstuck.
I am no longer initiating conversations about splitting assets and working on agreeing on whats in the dissolution. I wanted to get it all on paper so we would have a "default" agreement if things get ugly when she leaves. With the OM out of the picture at least for now, there is no reason for it to get ugly. I initiated and did all the work on transferring the farm assets into a trust for the boys. I did that to cover my own *ass and to keep the family farm operation alive. Now my main concern is to make sure we still do the 50-50 parenting, and then to make sure I don't have to pay half of my salary in child support, and then to make sure I get to keep the house (3 generations in my family). In that order. Those have all been orally agreed upon but nothing is in writing. Dissolutions can be great, but they require a LOT of communication and cooperation. In my state in order for it to work both spouses have to go in front of a judge and present the paperwork and state that they agree to the terms and want to terminate the M.

Once she is out, then hopefully she will agree to a 6 month trial separation so that we can decide how to proceed with our R. If that happens, I will have basically given myself 9 months to DB, 180, and make myself a better person. My "jumping off point" is when I can rest at night knowing I gave 100% effort to save the M.

[bdub]

Wet, sorry if it seemed like I snapped at you about the finances. Once I re-read what I wrote it sounded a little harsh. Thank you for your time and advice. I do appreciate it.

[Wet]

Bdub, it's all right on my end. I was trying to provoke you, and I am sure from your perspective to have some a$$hat in Minnesota questioning the importance of your finances justified a snapping response. I hope we're ok.

[bdub]

Wet,
We are fine. I am reading your sitch right now and its providing a lot of perspective.

[bdub]

Journaling a little today.... I realized last night that I spend a LOT of time talking AT my W and very little time talking TO her. That has changed a little in the past month but WOW was I bad about it before, and still let it happen now. A new 180 for me!! Tuesday night we were talking about plans for the weekend and I was having a terrible time getting her to understand that I had plans for Friday. She started to raise her voice and it triggered me to go right back to the old me talking AT her. We worked through the mini conflict and settled the issue ( a big deal for us) but I could not find a way end the conversation and de-escalate at the same time. When I left we were both satisfied with the result of the conversation but she was still frustrated and agitated. By morning she seemed ok but I did not want to leave her with that impression.

Detaching seems to be working. I had no inclination to tell her I figured out how to solve her problem re: paying for the furniture and a few other little issues.
I have not initiated an conversations with her, including logistical stuff for the boys and our schedule. Slowly, I am learning to keep myself busy and to let her lead. This is going to lead to me not knowing exactly what is going on, and I hope she doesnt spring something on me at the last second. For example, she certainly could bring in the moving truck and take all the furniture we now have, even though she doesnt want it. I fear if this gets to tough for her she could see that as a way out. She could flip on me and tell me to get my own stuff and that shes taking what we have. That is mind reading, and worrying. Neither does anyone any good.

[bdub]

Every day now I seem to be feeling a little bit better. I still have moments when I have some anxiety but they are less frequent and less intense. I finally got up the nerve to ask W if she had ended her R with OM and she immediately got defensive and told me she wasnt going to talk to me about it. I told her I just needed a yes or no answer. Have you told him ? She said yes she had told him and she was no longer "seeing him" I am not sure what that means. I am sure they still communicate, but as I said before shes going to let him down easy and it wont end all in one day.
We went to a counseling session last night and rode together. half an hour to the office and half an hour back. We talked about little things all the way in and it was pleasant. We struggled a little more on the way home. I was reflecting on what was said and done during counseling and she said she was tired and sort of zoned out. By then we had been talking for 2 and a half hours so the quiet time was welcome.

I have been working hard on detaching and I think I am seeing some results. Her actions and words no longer effect me like they did 2 weeks ago. It is pretty tough to detach with her at home but I am doing whatever I can at this point. I made a point to work on almost all of my 180s yesterday and actually had a chance to let a few of them shine in counseling. I have had more than one person tell me that they have noticed some changes in my and my behavior and attitude. One friend in particular seems to be amazed that I am making myself better AND dealing with a separation at the same time.

[Wet]

Hi Bdub, good work on the detaching and feeling better every day.

But... Why are you so focused on the OM? Keep the focus on yourself, and moving forward, GAL, and enjoying your sons. Get your focus off of your WAW. I would recommend you never mention OM again to your W.

Have you read Sandi's 37 rules?

[bdub]

I have read the rules. I chose to focus on the OM because it was stressing both of us out. Mentally I was tapped out and was to the breaking point. Emotionally and mentally she was tapped out and was starting to lose focus on the kids and on being cooperative. If she was not living at home I would not have been as obsessed with it. In this situation it turned out that I was right to push the issue on the other R. After she ended it, or started to end it, she immediately became more reasonable, less stressed, and more focused on the boys. If I would have allowed it to continue our R would have ended in me kicking her out and then we would have raced to file D. Since our goal is co-parenting and a cordial split, the OM was a huge hurdle for both of us. I know that is not typical DB behavior but I have adapted DB to my situation and it had to happen.
Another way to put it: since she ended her OR the alien residing in her head has lost a LOT of its influence on her. It is still there, but does not come out as often, and is no where near "off the wall".

[bdub]

After she answered my question last night, I will not bring it up anymore. When she told me she was going to end it, she never said it was over, she said she was going to end it. So, I got my confirmation and I will move on. I waited 7 days after she first brought it up before I asked about it.

Every day I become a little more detached. I have even started questioning if I love her, or if I love the idea of being married.

[Hoju]

This is definitely a journey of self realization more then anything. Perhaps it's good you're questioning if you truly love her, it's something you will need to work out for yourself before a reconciliation will ever be possible

[bdub]

I hate to say this, but in the event I fail at DB, I really think I can pretty easily convince myself that I was not in fact in love with her. I was in love with being in love and being married and having a family. As I detach further I see more and more of the negatives. Maybe I am re writing our marital history now. I hope not because I want to remember the good times we had.

[DFE]

Bdub I don't think you fail at DB if you D. I think DB is to help you get to a place where you realize what you want and are at peace with it. Although it would be great to save your marriage that may not happen. And you may not want it to happen. I think you have succeeded at DB when you are at peace with everything and can move on.

[bdub]

Thank you DFE. It seems like I am going through a lot of the same things as others on here. I have also been reading DB and DR again, and a book called rebuilding. Its more about rebuilding after D, but I thought it would be good insight, just like my next book, 5 love languages. Anyway, I am going through things that have taken others 6 of 8 months of separation to get through, and my WAW hasnt even left the house. I hope its a result of working on detaching. I think it may be me putting up walls to protect myself, and that scares me. W is really dragging her feet on her move right now and it could be a small positive sign. However, every day I feel less and less and think less and less about her. My thoughts have shifted towards what I will do when Im single. Who will I date? (not IF I will date), how will finances be? should I trade in the gas guzzler for a fuel sipper? are there any good bars/clubs around anymore? am I willing to drive 45 miles to the nearest city to socialize?
I am sure this will go away, and it could have something to do with the fact that I have had a decent amount of alcohol the past 2 nights. I dont know.
We are spending more and more time apart and I find myself being relieved to be away from her anger and her negative attitude.

Rollercoaster alert: I am at work as I type this. While I was typing the last sentence the W waltzed into my office. First time in 4 or 5 years she has been in my office. She was running S10 to football practice and decided to come sit with me for a while. Pleasant, smiling, happy, engaging and genuinely happy to see me. Is it a coincidence since I made plans last night to go out, and she stayed at the camper with the boys and I ended up sleeping at home alone? I am not going to mind read on this one and just take it as a small sign that maybe I was heading down the wrong road in the first half of my post. Detach, GAL and 180......

[igit]

B dub it's a roller coaster ride for sure. I have been in similiar boat since jan.same stuff w wanted to move out. Other m in picture. So moments of her old self. She just filed now I am counting on this D to go thru. Treating this like a business deal now. Until other m out of picture no working with her on anything now or in future

[bdub]

This weekend was pretty much more of the same. We continue to exist in the same house. I am as nice as I can be when I see her and I offer to help with anything I can. I am still working on my 180s and GAL.
S10 had his first football game. S 13 and I sat down and W decided to sit up a row from us and down a few feet. Little things like that, or choosing to sit on the other side of the camp fire, just boggles my mind. I suppose thats the difference between the mindset of a WAW and a LBS.
Detaching is still coming along. I need to go see my friend that helps provoke my anger. Every time I talk to him I create more distance. It has been 9 days since the last tears were shed. Another good way to judge detachment?

[bdub]

W did mention that she talked to our mutual friend that was going to rent her the house in town. She said that the other people are still in and it did not look like they were going to be moving anytime soon. The owners brother and mother are living there and from what I understand they are not paying rent OR utilities. Why would they want to move?
I still have the gift of time. Pretty soon though, her issues with feeling "stuck" are going to come out again. Although, since the OM is gone, the word "stuck" has not been used.....mindreading or babystep?

[bdub]

Just journaling some more. I was pretty down last night and even had some anxiety. Not sure why. Our interactions were pleasant and she even initiated a few conversations. Instead of the 2 or 3 sentences thrown at each other we actually interacted. I was actually bored last night, W took s10 to football practice. I volunteered and she said she would go, and just sit in the car and grade papers. I need to figure out where the anxiety came from. It wasnt a huge deal but it was there and I was unsure how to deal with it. I took s13 out to the barn and played basketball with him for 45 minutes and that took care of the issue.

[mindsin]

Does your W ever spend the night with the OM?

[bdub]

No. As far as I know they have been face to face 3 times. I am not naive enough to think it could NOT have gotten physical, but I am fairly certain it was emotional. When I was snooping there was no talk of physical, and throughout the conversations we had, W said she was using him as emotional support and someone to lean on. If it would not have stopped, it would have gotten physical. She told me she had plans to go to dinner with him. The night before the dinner was to happen a mutual friend confronted her about what she was doing and it changed W's mind. The night the dinner was supposed to happen she stayed home.

[bdub]

Had a pretty major backslide last night. I let her bait me into an argument and I could not let it go. We went back and forth for 20 minutes. She sucked me into it and then did all the usual. She changed topics, brought up the past, attacked, insulted, and talked in circles. I got frustrated and dropped all the validating and went on the defensive. I then started attacking her and being stubborn. We both raised our voices and both got angry and frustrated. Luckily it ended a little better than normal but it was not a good episode.
We started talking about money issues again. thinking we would go ahead and get through the last 2 hurdles I sat with her and participated. She wanted to raise CS by 50 dollars even though we had already agreed on a number. I asked her why and she couldnt give me a reason and that frustrated her. I asked her what her budget showed and she told me she didnt have one. Eventually I blurted out that I had figured one for each of us a few weeks back and she asked to see it. I showed it to her and she instantly argued almost every single value I had down. Then out came the "controlling" remarks. I guess I could see it as controlling if I would have done the budget and then given it to her. I simply wrote down a budget for each household so I could see if things were going to work and be some what equitable. I should have never even mentioned it. So, now its back to detaching, GAL and back on the 180s. Last night was temporary and I know to only believe half of what she does and none of what she says. This s*cks and it is not how I envisioned my life.

[bdub]

Today was a better day. I had IC yesterday and that really helped. I spent the entire hour talking about the intereaction with W from the night before. For the first time my C sort of told me that he was excited about the changes I have made. He also said that he gives me a ton of credit for handling things the way I do and that he doesnt agree with a lot of her methods and tactics. For the first time in 15 years someone actually sees that SHE might be the one being difficult. This is HUGE for me as I had thought that whatever I did was wrong and I was not handling things right and that I set her off and it was mostly my fault. The C has seen each of us individually and has seen us together. To hear him tell me that he didnt agree with how she was acting really helped me. I have finally pulled out of the funk that had sucked me in since Monday.
When W got home last night i pulled her aside and apologized to her for my part. " I want to apologize for how I acted towards you last night. It was juvinile, immature and unproductive. I also want you to know that I am dissapointed in myself for allowing it to happen."
She accepted my apology and said " its ok, we both were"

I didnt chuckle in front of her, but when I left the room I had a good chuckle. My C asked me point blank " how often does she apologize to you?" I told him not very often. He flipped through his notes and stated that he had noticed that in our sessions together she had never apologized to me and rarely even aknowledged there could be another opinion other than hers. The reason I chuckled is that C then stated that one of her complaints about me and our R is that I never apologize and I have to be right all the time. She likes to make this point known to anyone she talks to. She goes out of her way to tell people that I never admit I am wrong and never apologize.
OK, thats the end of my "winning" rant.
After the soccer game and football practice we sat down and talked about 2 of the issues that tripped us up the night before and resolved them. We even laughed out loud together while watching a re-run of our favorite sit com.

[bdub]

Tonight could be a tough one for me. S13 is going to a friends for the night, S10 and I are camping with friends. W is helping with a community picnic at the church. She is going to go home after that and not come to the campsite. Said she wants to go to church in the morning, and has to be there to help teach Sunday school. She has told me she has stopped seeing OM and I have to believe her. I can already feel a little anxiety starting. In the past I have not dealt well with not knowing where she is and what she is doing. I have been detaching and working on my controling issues. If I can keep it together through this I will know I have made big progress. If I cannot, and I break down and drive home, or call or text I will know I still have a long way to go. I have to find a way to allow myself to trust her tonight.

[bdub]

Expectations: Being excited that W texts to ask a question re: a street name or location. (I have always been good at that type of info). Waiting a while to respond. Responding with the correct info. Then waiting for a thank you and being pissed off that it never comes. Expectations.

[u-turn]

bdub - that is still a tough one for me too. I still think that things can just go back to "normal" and conversations end with a thanks or smiley face. You tend to get used to that and expect that as a couple. But it's gone for now.

Don't read into it. But appreciate it if it comes back some day.

(and it's funny that we never thought of these little things as being important when everything was going well - it just happened.)

[Wet]

Hi Bdubs,

What is it about weekends that drives us all crazy? If I let it, I can agonize over what my W MIGHT be doing on a Saturday night. Don't let the hamster in the hamster wheel go too crazy. Camping should be fun, right? Do you do the sleeping bags on the ground with your son, and keep away from all electronics while camping?

[bdub]

Wet,
No, we drag in the 30 foot long camper with AC, fridge, heat, bunk beds, tvs, the whole sha bang. "glamour camping", or "glamping" some people call it.
I am glad to say that I dealt with it all very well. No anxiety, not fights. I felt good all weekend and kept up my pma and acting as if.
Last night was a backslide though. We were both up stairs and I went down to turn the furnace on for the night. Her phone was there on the table and it buzzed and lit up. The first part of the text scrolled across the top of the screen. " grinning from ear to ear sweetheart". I walked up and told her she had a text and asked who would be grinning from ear to ear sweetheart.
Of course that didnt go well. However, it wasnt a shouting match or even a real tense dissagreement. She 'scolded" me for looking, and I defended myself because it was right there on the table in the dark and lit up. Yes, I looked. I expressed my dissapointment with the fact that she had not stopped it. She said all she ever told me was that she would not physically see him until she moved out. She said it was all texts and a few phone calls. We left it at that.
This morning was awkward but civil.
I have come to the conclusion that our marital money should not be used to fund her fling so I decided to get online and split the phones up so she had her own bill. I snooped some more and was dissapointed to find that it was massive amounts of texts, include while at s10 and s13 games . It was also massive (1500 minutes) amounts of calls. Every day commuting and at every one of s10's practices. I will not speak another word of it, but at least now I have the intel that starsky speaks of. With this new info I will redouble my efforts of DB and continue to 180 what i can. I feel that I have detached WAY more than I thought I had, or was able too. I am not there, but I am making progress.

[bdub]

As her move out day approaches (still no set date) I am spending less and less time around W. When we speak I am polite and friendly, like a neighbor. The only issues I am helping with are the ones that effect me like removing names from accounts and switching beneficiaries on insurance. I really want to ask her to give me half the money for the last 2 months phone bills ($230 bucks total) but I think that will come of as punishing and petty. Maybe even controling and vendictive. I will let it slide unless she pushes for something to change that we have already agreed on, and then I suppose I will use it as a bargaining chip. Someone has said " he who cares the least has the most power" I can really see this as being true right now. 2 weeks ago I would have been a wreck from these developments. Today I see it as intel, and motivation to stand firm and be the man that I want to be.

[bdub]

u-turn,
Expectations are a big trip up for me. Since I started this ordeal I have always ended a conversation or text conversation with a thank you, especially if I was asking something. So, since I do that I expect it back. Wrong. I also expect her to be consious about saving a little money here and there. Little things like riding to games together. We DO still live together. Wrong. My mindset has really changed over the weekend. She is no longer anywhere near the person she was and that is in ALL catagories of life.

[bdub]

Journaling:
W killed my plans to go out of Friday night because she refused to take the boys to the campsite. She had to clean her new apt Friday night and Saturday. I put the boys first so I changed my plans and took them. I was frustrated and I let her know I did not agree with her actions. 3 days later (when it came time to actually get the keys and go in and clean) we found out the other people have not moved out. She went appliance shopping instead and I wished her luck.

Saturday after s13 soccer game W was very stressed and frustrated with the house not being available. She attempted to take it out on me and I asked her to stop directing her hostility towards me. This upset her and put her in fight mode but I did not take the bait. She was extremely agitated. I offered to let her go with the boys to the camper and I would stay home. She said she would not go and basically broke down. She looked ill and extremely stressed so I backed off trying to get her to make a decision about what was going to happen for the day. I gathered the boys and politely told her we would go to the camper again. I milled around the house for 15 minutes to be sure she was going to be ok and it was obvious she was not. I tried to talk to her and help relieve some of the stress but she would not have it. The boys and I left and I called MIL and told her that W was having a tough tough afternoon and she volunteered to come to the house to see her. I waited 2 hours and drove back home to be sure everything was ok. MIL was there and they informed me they were going to go back to MIL house and spend the night.

I sent a polite text and copied them both. "Pls let me know everything is ok and you will be able to rest" W responded back that she was ok and she just needed to decompress. She thanked me for being concerned. MIL texted back thanking me for letting her know what was going on.

[bdub]

Sunday at S10's football game W didnt look much better. She did eat a sandwich and that seemed to help. As the game was finishing I told her I was going to run into town and get laundry detergent. She stopped me and said " lets all 4 go and we will get groceries too".
The boys sat in the car (windows down of course !) and we walked through the grocery store and talked non stop for 2 hours. She was visibly better as the afternoon went on. She offered to get meals to take home for us and I agreed and told her I would take the groceries home.
We talked later about the weekend and I expressed my concern for her stress level. I offered to do, or not do, whatever she needed to help eliminate some stress. I know thats not being detached but in my eyes she was borderline breaking down. I will go back to DB this evening if she seems to be doing better.

Later on I asked her to come watch a tv show with me and she said " lets go upstairs and lay down and watch it". As we watched, we talked a little. As we talked I could tell she was feeling better. That gives me hope that when we get home this evening she will be a little better and this issue will have passed.

[bdub]

I know that the above posts deviate from DB. I had taken some time off to be at the camper Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. I was trying to give her space, but in reality I dumped the boys on her. I had forgotten she had a seminar that required her to drive an extra half an hour to work. that, combined with getting the boys to school (my daily job) she had to leave the house an hour earlier than normal. She never mentioned the seminar until I was litterally closing the door to leave Wednesday. I immediately stopped and sat my stuff down and took my shoes off with intentions of staying home. She wouldnt allow it so I went anyway.

To me, I think I did the right things by going against DB because W was SO stressed out and about to break down. I think maybe it was my way of customizing DB to my sitch. I have no plans of continuing to do what I did this weekend, provided shes ok mentally and physically tonight. I know she appreciated my efforts because she told me several times. Tonight will be back to detaching and working on me and my 180s. Oddly enough, I still feel detached even after the way the weekend went. Does that mean detaching is working?

[MrBond]

"To me, I think I did the right things by going against DB "

Not sure what you mean by this. DB means to do what works and creates a positive interaction with your spouse. You did read the books, correct?

[bdub]

Mr. Bond,

I did read them. I didnt really mean going against DB. I meant I momentarily stopped detaching and GAL and focused more on her. After looking back at what happened, and what I typed, I did not backslide as much as I initially thought. I did not persue, I did not talk about our R, I did not talk about the future, and I did not help her move forward with the D.

[Ahoy]

You were being compassionate, bdub. If that ruins your chances of saving the marriage, I say it's worth it. I'd rather be a good, compassionate person than see someone suffer. I'm sure your wife appreciated your concern.

[bdub]

Interestingly, she was happy to see me when she got home from work. She came to me and initiated talk about the boys and small talk. I offered to take S10 to football, and she said " that would be good. I will make us all some supper for when you get back" The boys and i were thrilled! Shes a good cook, and we have been so busy we have been eating cold cuts, fried foods, and fast food for a few months.

As she was starting to prep the food I was getting water and gear ready for S10 and listening to her talk about her day. Frustrations with computer systems, co workers and the general environment. I walked through the dinning room and saw a summons for jury duty for her that she received a week ago. The dates on the paper were for today and tomorrow. She had forgotten about it. I showed it to her, and told her that she could call in after 5 to check the status of the case. She immediately called and the trial is still on. I immediately tensed up thinking this additional stressor would cause a negative reaction. I knew she was going to have to go back in to work to get lesson plans ready, and she was going to have to input grades into the system because they were due Wednesday. One of her gripes from earlier was that no one knew how to operate the new system. That meant she was going to have to "wing it" and deal with the fact that some things might be wrong.
I can honestly say she handled it all with poise and grace. I was pleasantly surprised by it. Even when our R was good, this would have set her off and caused major stress and tension. I asked her what I could do and she told me to give her a minute. So, I continued to prepare to leave with S10. Within 5 minutes she came to me and laid out a plan for the evening and it was handled very well. She was going to finish cooking and put it in the oven then head back to work and get her plans and grades done and come home. I told her I had the house under control and we would be there when she was done.
She told me she would text me when she was leaving. When I got the text I turned the oven back on and had the food warming up for her. Major 180 for me, I have never helped with stuff like that unless she specifically asked me too.
Whe she got home she came right to me and started venting about how everything went wrong. If it could break it did. If it needed to be turned on, it was turned off. I validated, actively listened and sympathized with her. As we talked I walked to the kitchen, got the food out of the oven and dished her out a plate full, all while she stood there and talked. As she got her drink and started to walk away, she said " what in the h*ll just happened there?" We shared a smile and she gave me a look that expressed a warm, almost surprised, thank you.
As she sat down to eat I started to walk away and she asked me to sit at the table with her. More baby steps? We sat and talked for half an hour, just the 2 of us. It was warm, cordial, friendly and borderline intimate.
This morning was light and stress free. (180 for both of us even in an uneventful day)

I still dont know exactly what cause the semi melt down on Saturday. i still dont know why things have suddenly changed for the better.
Was the meltdown a result of something with her and OM? Was the change for the better because of her mom? Church? Me? OM?
Maybe she was feeling guilty because she went to see OM and now shes realizing she got away with it. Maybe she is reacting to my lighter mood. Maybe I need to stop wondering why and start focusing on keeping it going.

[bdub]

Ahoy, I agree with you. I am starting to think I had gone too far. She continually denied my efforts to help, in any way. Honestly it p*ssed me off so I withdrew. I still worked on the laundry, the dishes and keeping the house orderly. I only spoke to her to communicate something about the boys or our schedule. I know I contributed to some of the stress, and that was really bothering me.
My attitude changed, probably more than hers. I am going to keep doing what I have been doing for the last few days. I am going to work on adding in some humor of some sort, or maybe just keeping a lighter mood. I know she is still leaving and does not want to work on R. I have not asked and I will not bring it up. However if I can keep the atmosphere a little lighter, that might be my way of helping her relieve some stress.

[bdub]

Late Sunday and yesterday evening we have shared a LOT of eye contact. There have been smiles, inside jokes, and she even giggled a little at my attempt at a little flirt. What little down time we have (an hour an evening, max)we spent together doing nothing the last 2 nights. The weeks before that we retreated to our room, or I went outside.
All of that could be seen as a baby step but I am not going to let it mean any more than that. Driving to work this morning I was processing and thinking. My mind wandered into planning a R talk and I immediately snapped myself out of it. That would be a big backslide.

[bdub]

Gathering intel I discovered a TON of phone calls and texts. I am not sure what to make of it but I think it might have had something to do with her extra high stress levels. Is there trouble in paradise? Is he pushing her to move? Is she falling in love and the guilt kicked in? Is she conflicted about us? Is he pressuring her too much? Maybe she was planning on spending the night with him Saturday night and that triggered the stress. Maybe she did spend the night with him and that relieved the stress and thats why she started acting "better" towards me. All things I will never know.

I also discovered one of my boundaries has been crossed. We agreed to no phone calls from our property and there have been a few the last couple of days. After going to bed in separate rooms. I will have to reinforce that tonight.

Regardless of the outcome, I have to maintain the peace until she signs the trust papers turning over a TON of assets to our boys. Because that is not done, I am not sure I can even enforce that boundary. Anyway, I can always remind her and hope it sinks in.

I know I am going to get 2x4 for gathering intel, but I am in starsky's camp on this. I can handle the information and feel its very important to know what I am dealing with.

[mindsin]

How do you plan on enforcing the "no call" boundary?

[bdub]

I mentioned in my post that I am not sure that I even can. If I elect to enforce it now, rather than remind her, then I stand to lose a LOT. We agreed to a dissolution and I dont think she will go back on that. However, if I raise too much of a stink she certainly could refuse to sign the trust papers. We hired an attorney to draw up a trust to transfer all of our farm assets to the boys with both of us maintaining dual control. We turned the rough draft back in over 2 weeks ago so I am hoping and praying that the final docs are done and in the mail.

The original method of enforcement was " I am not sure what will happen but I will not continue to cooperate with you and be supportive through this process" I left it vague so as not to paint myself into a corner.

I am not going to bring it up until I have had a chance to sleep on it and decide if it is the right thing to do.

[bdub]

Update:
I reminded W of my boundary and she apologized and said she would respect it. It was a decent conversation actually. How long will it last?

Ironically the trust papers arrived in the mail yesterday afternoon. Also ironically W is on jury duty and is only a block away from the attorney. Crossing my fingers that she will stop in and sign at lunch break like she said!

[bdub]

W sent a TM saying she signed the trust papers. That hurdle has been cleared. Once the trust is established (tomorrow) then we quit claim the real estate over to the trust and a HUGE financial headache is done.

It is amazing that she is the WAW but the only thing that has happened re: separation is this. I was responsible for getting this done. Talked to her new "soon to be landlord" (she works with me)today and the previous tenants are still in the house and they have shown no signs of moving. The previous tenants are the landlords mom and brother. They are mooching off of her and she is allowing it. Not sure she will ever boot them out.

My state of mind right now is that I hope W stays home for the winter. I am sure that by tomorrow, my state of mind will be that she needs to get out ASAP.

By waffling like this am I assuring myself that I will be ok with whatever happens? I am terrible at having zero control. One of my major 180's is to get better at that.

I have had no input on simple things like driving together to games or practices. She has been finding reasons to have to be late or just on time to games. I just shake my head and watch the dollar signs float away at the gas that is wasted. I also get to discuss with the boys why mom is not riding with us to the games....

The boys have been asking more and more questions recently. They miss their mom. They resent her phone as much as I do now. S13 asked me how to approach W about texting and driving. I asked him how it made him feel. He said he felt like she was putting their lives in danger. I told him to politely tell her that the next time she was doing it. Also told him to expect her to yell at him. Sure enough 2 days later he told me he said " mom please dont text and drive, its too dangerous". He told me she immediately put her phone down and yelled at him. At least that has stopped for now.

S13 asked me who xxxxxx was. (insert OM's name there)I told him that I did not know who it was. He told me he saw his name on W's phone. The "me" from a few years ago would have suggested he ask her. I dropped it this weekend. I just let it go because S13 does not need to be in the middle. He may ask anyway. I cant help it if he does. In fact, I bet he already has.

S10 asked W (in front of me and S13) why she didnt come camping with us last weekend. He has also asked me why shes always on her phone. S10 is sharp tongued and Sunday he used it. W asked him why he was 30 minutes behind on his required reading for school. He snapped back " because I asked you 2 nights in a row for help and you never got off your phone"

[bdub]

I am off to see my IC for the last time. He is/was our MC. Friends of ours reccomended him to us 8 years ago when we went through a rough patch and the 7 year itch. He is a wonderful man and helped us trememdously in the past. With this sitch he has been seeing us individually and together and has really helped us both. He wasnt able to do much for us together because W wasnt willing to work.

When we first went back to him in July he told us he had colon cancer and it was slowing him down. The treatments have been causing him great pain. He revealed to me last week that he was probably terminal and that he and his wife had decided to shut his practice down.

I was the type that resisted counseling at first but I have really come to lean on it recently. He is an avid supporter of my DB efforts and even took the time to read DB and DR after my first session. He is very much pro marriage and had a background in solution based therapy. I have not been able to find another IC that is solution based that practices within 50 miles of my house. I hope today he gives me a good reference. I also hope today that I am able to hold it together emotionally. I am already "welling up" and my appointment is an hour away.

[Ahoy]

Hang in there bdub! Life is big, and this part will seem very distant in the future. You will come through one way or another.

[bdub]

IC went well. He seemed in very good spirits and acted like he felt pretty good. We talked a lot about me and what I am doing to become a better person. He told me I had made huge strides in a short time. We finally started working on communication skills. I had been reading a lot about it and applying what I have read. Working through some of the trouble spots with him was a huge help for me.

Last night was tense at home. Something had changed and it was obvious. I tip toed around her for 2 hours and she kept trying to lash out every chance she had. I finally just asked her what had changed between us in the last 24.

She stated that I did not respect her privacy yesterday morning because when she was in our closet changing I walked in and started changing myself. I validated her concern and apologized for not being considerate. For 15 years we got up, and got ready together in the mornings. We even usually walk to the cars together.
I then backslid and said that it had never been an issue for 6000 days and that it was just a habit. I should not have discounted her feelings.
Then she started in about something I did in the afternoon.

I volunteered to take her vehicle in to have the oil changed and tires rotated. The last thing I did was filled it with fuel for her. She asked me how it went and I told her, then I told her I swept it out and fueled it up. Reverting back to marriage mode I pointed to my cheek (asking for a peck). She stood up and laid one on me.
Turns out that was not the right thing to do and it really bothered her. I am just confused because she walked 5 feet to peck me on the cheek and she thanked me.

expectations

[bdub]

Finally was able to start harvesting last night. This is going to bring in a whole new dynamic into my DB. I will be working late nights and long weekends for the next 6 weeks at least. Typically during harvest I get rushed and stop being polite and considerate. Typcially the stress from trying to get it all done shows on me and I become short tempered and even demanding. In the past it has been my W's "job" to bring me meals and help me move from field to field.
This year, even though I am starting over 2 weeks late, I will 180 by slowing down, being more thoughtful, and trying to not work until 3 in the morning. When and if she brings me meals I will stop what I am doing and spend a few minutes with her and be grateful for her efforts. I will make sure that I pack something along with me so I dont need her to bring me food.

Anyone reading this please say a quick prayer for us. I pray for a safe and bountiful harvest. I pray for gods will to be done and I pray for peace and tranquility in our home. I pray for strength. I pray for strength for my W as she now is a "single parent" for this busy time of year.

[Maybell]

Those are good prayers. You're on my list.

[bdub]

Thank you for your thoughts and prayers maybell.

I rarely comment on your thread but I have been following your "wordy" sitch since I started on this board. I admire you and your dedication. You have been a great insperation to me these past few months.

[labug]

This year, even though I am starting over 2 weeks late, I will 180 by slowing down, being more thoughtful, and trying to not work until 3 in the morning. When and if she brings me meals I will stop what I am doing and spend a few minutes with her and be grateful for her efforts. I will make sure that I pack something along with me so I dont need her to bring me food.

This sounds like it would be a big 180 for you. If she was bringing you meals, that's a big deal. I think anyone male/female likes to be appreciated for their work. This time of year is stressful for her too. When you start seeing the world from another person's POV, you learn so much about them and about you.

Have you noticed how many situations here contain the factor of husband's who are slaves to their work? Sometimes it's the W but the majority is the H. Of course this could be skewed because more women seek help.

[bdub]

Labug,
It is amazing how many peoples lives are adversely effected by their job. Normally I am a 9-5 office work guy but in the spring and fall I farm. Farming has been a great source of joy in our R and in my life, and it has also been a great source of stress.
Until this, I never really realized how much she sacrificed so that I could chase this dream and work to pass the farm down to the next (7th !!) generation.

[bdub]

Expectations:

Dropping S10 off at basketball tryouts and staying for the parent meeting. W normally does her workout in town from 6-7 and then goes to basketball to pick up S10. Comig out of the parent meeting I don't see W's car anywhere and its well past time for her to be there. I call W and leave a msg. 20 minutes later I call again. 20 minutes later I call again and leave a msg stating I am on my way to get him. Halfway there she calls me back and tells me she will get him.
Expecting common courtesy leads to headaches with a WAW.

[Ahoy]

I wonder what would have happened had you not called her at all?

Does your son have a phone, and would he have taken the initiative to contact her?

The reason I ask is because one of my 180s is not nagging my H to remember things (he is very forgetful). This is difficult because the consequences can and do affect my daughter. However, because she is 14 and has a phone, if he is late to pick her up or forgets something, then she can call him (or call me if she can't get in touch with him). Then my H would have to deal with the consequences of having D upset with him. This is very hard for me to stand by and not intervene, but it is a growing opportunity for both of them, and it keeps me from looking like the nag/bad guy.

Just an idea -- but it really depends on your kids, if they have a phone, and if they are comfortable with that.

[labug]

Labug,
It is amazing how many peoples lives are adversely effected by their job. Normally I am a 9-5 office work guy but in the spring and fall I farm. Farming has been a great source of joy in our R and in my life, and it has also been a great source of stress.
Until this, I never really realized how much she sacrificed so that I could chase this dream and work to pass the farm down to the next (7th !!) generation.

My best friend was in a family farm marriage like that and she decided, luckily before they had kids, that she wasn't really cut out for it. As a "stars in your eyes in love" 21 yr old you don't really understand it until you've lived it or you share the same family-farm history.

Your W teaches right? So the fall is crazy-time for her work, too. We put so much pressure on our Ms.

[labug]

Expectations:

Dropping S10 off at basketball tryouts and staying for the parent meeting. W normally does her workout in town from 6-7 and then goes to basketball to pick up S10. Comig out of the parent meeting I don't see W's car anywhere and its well past time for her to be there. I call W and leave a msg. 20 minutes later I call again. 20 minutes later I call again and leave a msg stating I am on my way to get him. Halfway there she calls me back and tells me she will get him.
Expecting common courtesy leads to headaches with a WAW.

Was she late getting him? Was b-ball over when you were there? I
m confused.

[bdub]

S13 has a phone now, S10 does not. Looking back on it, I way over reacted.
The point of my post was that I expected W to call me back to let me know she was going to get S10. I expected her to be there well before pick up time, as she had been for the previous 5 or 6 occasions. When she was not I called to make sure we were on the same page regarding schedule arrangments. Going forward I will not do that anymore. It will be up to her. If she fails, she fails. I know it will hurt the boys, but I cannot continue to protecting them from her WAW syndrome all the time.

Saturday we were at S10s football game. It was a real nail biter that went into OT. Towards the end of regulation W stood up and said "I have to meet gf in town in 20 minutes, take both boys home pls" and walked off. I was floored because I expected her to be interested in watching S10 play football. It's not like he was not playing. He is the starting QB and starts on defense too.

I have found that I can gauge my detachment by the number of "expectation" issues I have. I was not very detached this weekend.

Unrelated to expectations, but related to S10: As we were leaving he asked where his mom was. S13 told him.
S10 had thrown the winning td pass. The mile wide grin dissapeared when he heard she had left. As s10 and I watched Sunday night football last night he told me that W had not asked him how things turned out. The pain was obvious. I held it together until he went to bed but I shed tears for the first time in 3 weeks.

[bdub]

She was not late getting him. B-ball is 7-830. Her zumba class is 6-7. Parent meeting was 7-730. In the previous 5 weeks she was always there by 710. I usually stayed until then to talk to coaches or other parents. She was always there in the parking lot waiting next to my truck. I would walk out and we would talk about little things for a few minutes and I would go home.
I did not see her car, and we had not specifically talked about pick up arrangements. She had left at 2 to go to a jewelry party in town and never came home. I called to confirm she was going to pick him up, since I was headed back to the fields to resume harvesting.
My issue with the entire enteraction was that I expected her to call me back. I would have gladly stayed to pick him up or gone back to the school to pick him up.
Reading back over this I can see my insecurities, controlling nature, and my expectations seeping out. Maybe this issue is more about me than her.

[labug]

Ya think!

You created your own misery. Do you do this often?

[bdub]

Borrowing trouble.

Unfortunately lately, I have been doing this more and more.

When I got home from harvesting last night I grabbed a cold one and sat down on the edge of my bed and re-hashed the last 10 days, almost hour by hour. The more I thought about it the more I could see that I was allowing myself to see her as my W of old, not the WAW she is now. Her being at home still is hard. Detaching is hard. I slipped up and reattached a bunch.
I decided last night too really work on detaching more. Posting and reading this morning has really "set" my resolve for this.

The anxiety has started creeping back in, I have been on edge more and able to sleep less. 2 weeks ago when I was more detached the anxiety was all but gone, I was sleeping through the night mostly, and I was not worrying all the time.

I think it stems from the fact that I have discovered that her activity with OM has picked up again. Long calls, hundreds of texts. I hate to give up the intel, but I think I need to go back to having blinders on for the sake of my own well being.

It all started last week when I heard her on the phone late at night and I checked the phone bill the next day. 2 months ago I set a boundary that there would be no phone calls from the house and she agreed to it. I reminded her of that and she apologized. Of course I checked the phone bill 3 or 4 times to be sure it had stopped. Thankfully it has. Unfortunately it set me WAY back.

[labug]

So if you want to D her tomorrow, the intel might be good. Why do you hate to give it up? Really think about that.

If it's affecting you physically, how helpful is it?

Figure out who you want to be through this, what you want to project to the outside world from inside you. See her as gone, your marriage over and proceed accordingly.

Your W is in an A with another man.

Doesn't mean you treat her poorly, but see the situation as it truly is.

Is she going to move out? Sorry I don't remember all the details.

Do you have an IC?

[bdub]

I think I hate to give up the intel because I feel the need to know what is going on. I think deep down I want to use the intel to control the situation . (oops!!)

I know my M is over, I dont want it anymore, she doesnt want it anymore. I struggle mightily because she is still home, in a separate bedroom. Being in limbo like that is horrible.

She has rented a house in town from a mutual friend. However, that friend still has her mom and brother living in the house, rent free. 4 weekends in a row now my W has gone to start cleaning and get the keys only to find that the mom and brother are still there.

We both are going to IC and we have went to MC (divorce C) several times. Same C. He is wonderful. However, due to colon cancer he is shutting down his practice in the very near futre.

I mention DC instead of MC because each time we have gone W refuses to talk about anything other than D and it frustrated us all to the point that we stopped going. I go weekly to IC and she has gone twice, maybe 3 times.

I am working on several 180s right now and doing well most of the time. I hit a dark spot this week and slid back into a little funk. I know that I want to be a better person after all this. I also still hope that W is the one that gets to benefit from the changes I have made. If not, I know I will eventually be happy on my own, and that I will learn to love myself again.

Something inside me changed this week and I became dissapointed in the way she was neglecting the boys. She had never been that way before. In my typical controlling fashion I mentioned to her that the boys had been complaining to me that she has not been around as much and that there have been several things they wanted to do with her and she was not available.
I should step completely out of my W's relationship with the boys.

[bdub]

Reading that post it looks like I am using the boys to try to control the W.

By do I have a LONG way to go.

[bdub]

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