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Read DR. Former Army officer, solution oriented.

This is W's third marriage, my first. I adopted her oldest daughter, now 21, when we married (wife was a victim of a sexual assault, chose life.) She has one son from her first marriage in college and one from her second marriage living with us, age 15. He's great. Wife was orphaned/left at Christian Children's home at 13. Her father died at 6 and her Mom just didn't care to be a parent. I met wife when we were in HS. Reconnected when I was stationed at Fort Sill. Both my parents are alive and divorced when I was an adult. I grew up with average level of dysfunction.

Anyway, marriage has endured two custody cases (we WON the most recent which ended 8/2013), and a house fire. Oldest daughter has had quite a bit of counseling to deal with her origins - and it didn't work. First thing I need to admit - she knew that her mom's first husband was not her father. She pressed hard (at age 11!) to know what was up. I blurted it out, because part of my personality is that truth is the best medicine for everything. I was wrong, and it wasn't my place.

W has had a major Christian revival <irony> through the past 6 years. I was not as committed. Realized about 1.5 years ago that if I didn't change my stance on Christ, my marriage would soon be over. So I gave God a real try (that was terrifyng - because, what if it didn't work) and now I'm in his arms completely. Abandoning my preconceived notions and diving into belief has been amazing. I have made huge strides since last November in improving ME.

But I couldn't get this marriage to work right. I kept figuring that it would improve organically as everything else had. Reading through the boards, it seems that my wife and I have some form of codependence that has damaged us both. Also, after reading "When Sorry Isn't Enough" by Gary Chapman, here are the things I admitted to W in a letter before she dropped the DB (but after she told me the marriage is essentially over) Most, if not all of these, happened over a year ago (except #9, which was, not surprisingly, about sex):

1. Failing to defend you before my immediate family
2. Discussing our problems with others in a way that cast you in a bad light
3. Making jokes about your circumstances, education, divorce, or my stepchildren in such a way that it belittled you
4. Time and again ignoring or dismissing your ideas, often in a demeaning way.
5. Making you feel lesser because I didn’t respect your opinions
6. Failing to realize that the situation with your ex-husbands was made worse by me. Because we married, you were separated more than ever before from Ryan, and Brandon put us through incredible difficulty (that I blamed on you!) when we were fighting for custody of Jacob through the first four years of our marriage. While I am not at fault for the actions of others, I take responsibility for my insensitivity and anything I said or did to make things even worse
7. When we lived in Wheeling (2001), I mocked your desire to seek a close relationship with God – and made it worse by becoming angry when you asked me to join you. Calling you a holy roller and saying I wanted no part of that kind of life was inexcusable. I didn’t know how bad that was then. Nonetheless, had I put your needs and your heart before my own selfishness, I would have apologized immediately rather than trying to justify myself.
8. I specifically need to address the comment I made regarding getting your education completed before having kids. I should never, for even a moment, have thought that was a topic for joking. This was exacerbated by me doing it in front of another man. I will never do such a thing again. If I catch myself doing it, I’ll send everyone home, and immediately make amends, admit my wrongdoing, repent of such behavior, make restitution by apologizing publicly (later, after reconciling privately), and ask your forgiveness as well.
9. Escalating an already bad situation. If I am hurting, that does not give me the right or privilege to punish you by returning the hurt. I see that was a huge mistake. The answer to our problems is more communication, not two days of the cold shoulder.

WHERE WE ARE NOW:
DB 8/6: We were in a public place - I thought that she was ready to begin working on things based on my commitment to change and evidence supporting same. I reacted poorly.
Read DR 8/7-8/8; on the boards reading vets stuff
Took control of my own responses to her declarations - put a smile on, work out, take time to really enjoy the kids and no more "knee-jerk" reactions

She started in 8/7 with her desire for an amicable parting. I said little. She said that based on my behavior since the DB (I was MUCH more together on 8/7, despite zero sleep), she expected this to go smoothly. I validated her, stating that I would not fight her on anything, and agreed with her that lawyers have already got enough of our hard-earned money. She suggested a number of things, 50/50 custody, little child support, short-term alimony, no going after my 401K, leaving me in the house, just wanted to take her things and car. I said, if that's what she wants, she was welcome to do whatever she needed to do. I told her I knew she was serious, but restated my baseline position. I do not want a divorce. She refuses a temp separation because that crushed her legally after first marriage.
8/8 Work, then Pool party with kids at swim team. Went together, no prob. Got up next AM, worked out with youngest daughter.
8/9 In AM, W wanted to talk; I said I wasn't ready. Would talk in the evening. Flat out told her that I was GAL'n. Response: "That's kind of a mean thing to say." Took kids to friends house and did some DR reading while they swam and goofed off. This is one of 3 friends that I have told. All have been told that I am trying to repair this marriage. Badmouthing my wife is not an option. That night, told her "I will not lift a single finger to dismantle this marriage. You'll have to do that on your own." I validated that I would never harm her or the kids financially and she was welcome to do whatever she felt like she needed to do, but I wasn't going to help her. That segued into an opportunity - I thought - to let her know that regardless of what happened next, I was committed to being a better man, that my words and deeds had precipitated this mess. She replied that it wasn't just me, and then she tearfully told me she had opened a credit card line without me AND had taken $8,400 out of our home equity line of credit, but hadn't touched it. She did it "just in case" I lost my mind. Normal me would have flipped out. I just calmly responded,
"I'm not surprised."
"You think that little of me?" she said.
"Nope, I've given you reason to fear my reactions at times"...
(with a smile)"but, in your position I would have done the same thing, only done it over 2 years and it would be $20K".
"Well, I'm not that cold or calculating."
"Yeah, only I have never considered doing it at all."
Rest of conversation ended organically. I left. I fooled myself into believing she was beginning to see the real me.

8/10 The danger of hope. It's my b-day. Went to church with her, trying to keep it normal with the kids. She agrees, since she's basically trying to craft the perfect divorce. Came home, made lunch together, had laughs with the kids at the table (she was part of all of this.) Watched movie with the kids in the family room. Came out and she wanted to talk. Said she had been on computer ALL afternoon filling out forms and wanted my opinion on some joint custody techniques, as well as DIY divorce papers using a paralegal, etc. WTF DOES SHE WANT TO GO SO FAST!!! I responded coolly, but cordially to her questions basically telling her it was her move. Then I went to my room to research LRTs and figure out what to do next. She came in, asked for my driver's license, I said "What for?" "Papers" "What papers?" "The ones I'm filling out." I gave her my wallet and got ready to leave. Got the wallet back, went for a drive. Returned to wife asking me why I'm barely speaking to her as I walked through the house. Told her I would be happy to talk to her tomorrow, but now wasn't such a good time. "What are you so mad about?" Reiterated that now wasn't such a good time and, well, here we are.

Sorry for the epic. There's more (we did homeschool, she wanted to go back to work - LVN, I reluctantly agreed back in June) (MR ALERT) As long as I act happy and confident, she is happy - just seems to think I am adjusting to the idea and might even like it. When I get a little cool about discussing the mechanical details of the divorce itself, she seems thrown off/angry about my detachment.


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Welcome to the board

Get out and GAL.

DETACH.

Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.

Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.

USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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Thanks, moderator. I just talked to DB coach but still am open to any input you guys have on my sitch

Shakspr


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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So, my attitude was not so hot last night. Created a bit of tension when I was going to church with the kids and she wanted to stay behind. At least she was looking at job opportunities (I found her resume' for her) and not filling out DIY divorce paperwork.

Long day at work today...but my blessings are many. Mom got out of ICU from surgery and my D21 is home for a long weekend while she transitions to a new apartment closer to us. I look forward to seeing her, but am uncertain how W wants to explain our separate sleeping arrangements.

Shakspr


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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I am sorry that you are in this situation. At this point, I urge you to speak to a Divorce Busting Coach. Our coaches specialize in helping you keep your family together, focus on your goals, and come up with a plan of action to get your marriage back on track. Call me to dicuss our Divorce Busting Coaching program 303-444-7004.


Roberta, Resource Coordinator
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Roberta:

I am on the DB coaching plan. Had first session yesterday with DB coach. Looks like I have the basic plan in order, just seeking support and encouragement from those who may have insight.

And this is more productive than staring off into space at work. whistle

Best,
Shakspr


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
Joined: Jul 2014
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Shakspr, sorry you're going through all of this at once, your W and your mom. Just wanted to let you know somebody recognizes you're in a bad spot.

Hang in there. I find comfort in reading other people's threads, because it helps keep me sane. Just knowing other people are dealing with crazy MLC spouses, too, seems to help because it means we're not alone.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Keep posting Shakspr. The more you post, and the more you participate in other people's postings, the more input you get. It might take awhile for your post to become active, but rest assure, people are reading, and will chime in when they have something to offer.

Best of luck to you...


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
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He Shakspr, pilot is right. Read many of the threads and participate when you can. It will help you and others. My thoughts are with you!


M 35 W 31
D 10
Married 3 years
Together 11
Single since Nov 13
Moved out Dec 13
ILYBNILWY, 'I don't want to be a boring housewife, 'I don't fancy you any more'
OM confirmed Jun 14
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Thanks to all who have responded, (and read my minor opus.)

It has gotten pretty bad, pretty fast. W filed divorce petition yesterday. Handed me all the uncontested divorce stuff today. She is offering me a pretty sweetheart deal all things considered. After 14 years of marriage she could be asking for more in alimony than she'll get in child support. She wants none of it, just her car and half my 401K up to this point (which isn't all that much.) 60/40 visitation (basically extended weekends 1/3/5.) Time with my stepson(from her 2nd marriage)because even she sees me as a good Dad. I've been in the SS15's life since he was one.

I mention all this to say, she isn't spiteful or hateful. She just can't see a future for us. I know this isn't pure DB/DR technique, but since part of the problem was that I didn't show enough emotion at the right times, I was very emotional today. NOT loud. Just...well...vulnerable. She understands, says she's hurting too and she "didn't just come to this conclusion overnight." I did let her know that if she decides to change her mind, that I will only be overjoyed. I live in the present and the future. Lord knows my WAW can't remember any of the good stuff from the past right now.

I know miracles happen. I am still committed to our marriage. But if I contest this, the only party who gets a good deal is a couple of lawyers. So I am trying to be more than equitable and develop a friendship that will allow us to co-parent well. Again, trying to show my best sides. But guys, she's almost definitely walking. I can only hope (1% of 1%!!!) that a day comes when she points her feet back my way.

Shakspr


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Talked to my D21 about divorce on Friday. W had already told her, unbeknownst to me. Whatever. D is not happy about the idea and is responding well to me as I have told her that I want some time with her Sun nite to begin healing our relationship. Anyway, I told her that while I do not want a divorce,that I WILL NOT put her in the middle of any of this, and I will continue to respect her Mom and create no drama.

D offered me a little gem. She said "You need to get her outside herself, outside her own head." The statement seems RIGHT, but I have no idea how to implement. Any advice, folks?


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Welcome to the forum Shakespr. Sorry about the divorce petition. Looks like you are in a good place mentally to take all of this as an opportunity to improve, even if the situation is really hard and painful and you don't know how it will end up. Looks like you have already done a great deal of introspection and have learned some very valuable things about yourself. Congrats. One thing I struggle with is that I seem to enjoy beating myself up. I become aware of my flaws and mistakes, and then really castigate myself and blame myself for EVERYTHING going wrong in the M. I am now trying to be easier on myself. Everyone has flaws and makes mistakes, we are all on a journey of improvement. I am where I am and I am doing the best I can and transforming as fast as I can. I like to imagine God telling me "I am happy with where you are, you are right on time in my book."


Me:42 W:41
M:12 T:3
D7, D7, S5
Sep#1 Winter 2012 for 4 months
W divorce bomb 6/9/14
Started "in-house separation" 7/2014
W files for D 8/28/14
I move out 9/27/14
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Thx, Hopetex. Yeah, I'm strong enough that I will get better, and I am committed to being a candidate for world's best Dad - which means no mental breakdowns allowed. W still asks me how I am when she catches me at a low spot, because she still cares about me as a person, but is not receptive to any course of action other than "AMPUTATE." And she wants to go fast because the process is painful and she wants it over with. So how the heck am I supposed to respond?

I have done my fair share of admitting my faults (see initial post), but her dependent/codependent tendencies will have to be addressed if there is EVER a reconciliation. I haven't written down a balance sheet (maybe I should?), but if I think about the stuff in DR from the W's POV, well, she is not blameless in this.

Perhaps you should write some of those same things down as an exercise to remind yourself it isn't ALL your doing.

Shakspr


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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This continues to suck. Just read the divorce decree agreement she drew up. I am smart enough to know to take it (she is walking away with cash, but I don't get hit with 20% monthly gross spousal support ON TOP OF the 25% net child support. Granted, she might not get all of that, but the risk/reward equation is not in my favor.)

Is there any good in looking at or defining how she has damaged the relationship, just so I don't feel so bad about my own contributions?


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Just a quick note to maintain my own sanity. Dreams where your W is making accusations of all your worst traits and actions are a lie.

Attempted the love languages quiz from my W's POV - words of affirmation followed by a tie between Acts of Service and touch. All scores were close - seems my W needs a "Whole Lotta Love."

Something from DB coach Laurie - if (lack of) emotional connection has been cited as a reason for the D, don't be afraid to make a connection when the opportunity arises. My W filed, yet still appreciates those moments of laughter and togetherness when they arise. DON'T FEAR BACKLASH. If/when it comes, keep your cool, maintain laissez faire attitude, and plaster a smile on your face.

From Animal House: "Was it over when the German's bombed Pearl Harbor? NO!!! It's over when WE say it is!"


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Random Fun:

Changed computer PW to GetALife2014 - there's a constant reminder for you.

Have practiced many healthy scenarios of positive interactions with the W in my head. It's working! She was all prepared to be nasty to me tonight (sometimes you can just tell) - but I hit the LoveLingo trifecta, Touch (but not too much), Service, Affirmation. She quickly settled into healthy "back to school" stuff about the kids. Heh. I feel like I'm cheating. Of course, she is still divorcing me, so...

Spent last 4 days with Mom who is recovering from lung cancer surgery - it hasn't spread, she's gonna make it. 55 years of smoking. Her house stinks. (Any of you have a Mom who doesn't know how to "Grandma". I swear sometimes she shoulda been a biker.)

This feels like a diary. A very public anonymous diary. Weird.

G'night, (or good morning) all. I wish you the best.


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Hmmm...Lost a cool response from Nitty. bummer.

So, I have been GAL'g, etc. Swam laps (badly!) at the pool yesterday for the first time in forever. Gonna do a sprint triathlon before winter hits. I stink in the water, but am hopeful about my bike times. The real goal is to finish.

I can picture a life after divorce, which I need to consider to maintain a mental outlook of "no expectations." (And, you know, she filed and it only takes 61 days uncontested in TX.) But I cannot, for the life of me, picture sitting down with my 8 and 11 YO children and having the talk. It is the one thing that may break my calm, as I know I will want very badly to say to my W - "Well, why don't you explain to THEM why you are doing this." She sure hasn't given me anything resembling a real explanation.


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
Joined: Jul 2014
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Yeah, where did my post go? Board gremlins ate it. I don't remember what I wrote, but thanks for thinking it might have been cool!

As my momma taught me to be so very polite, I probably wrote to thank you for the encouragement you gave me. That verse and the affirmations on the PDF were helpful and just what I needed.

Regarding telling the kids: I would want her to explain it to them, too, except that she might go off and say something that would be harmful. Do you think she might? Can you take that risk?


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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I am unconcerned about her intentionally doing harm. I just can't stomach (right now) the thought of telling them that this is something mutual when in reality, it is not. I can draw some cold comfort from the fact that they will know the whole truth (including my part in her decision to WAW), someday.

Meanwhile, went to home group and did a bible study and dinner. It was enchiladas and all the fixins, with a main course of Hebrews 10. Yummy!


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Know how you feel bud, I too am dreading that conversation. From what I hear we just have to suck it up and talk about it with the kids as if it is a mutual mommy daddy decision. Not fair to us but apparently best for kids, especially young ones. They will know the truth someday, although they might not even care really.

Anyone else have a different opinion on this?


Me:42 W:41
M:12 T:3
D7, D7, S5
Sep#1 Winter 2012 for 4 months
W divorce bomb 6/9/14
Started "in-house separation" 7/2014
W files for D 8/28/14
I move out 9/27/14
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Hi,
Just wanted to jump in and say that I hope your W turns her feet and walks right back to you.

Hang in there, just like the rest of us smile Chin up


M 30yrs H 31yrs
S 4ys
M 7 yrs
T 9 yrs
S 15/2/2014
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Okay, strange new emotion today. W is out of town at an aunt's (good woman - practically her Mom)after dropping off SS, 15, at his Dad's. She said she was staying overnite with Aunt, but is still not home.

And I find myself not caring. Whether she is there, here, or in a car wreck. That can't be right, can it? Is my heart just too tired to keep fighting alone?

Confused, tired, and having fun with my kids all at once. This is surreal.


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Could be healthy detachment growing in you?


Me:42 W:41
M:12 T:3
D7, D7, S5
Sep#1 Winter 2012 for 4 months
W divorce bomb 6/9/14
Started "in-house separation" 7/2014
W files for D 8/28/14
I move out 9/27/14
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Quote:
I am unconcerned about her intentionally doing harm. I just can't stomach (right now) the thought of telling them that this is something mutual when in reality, it is not.


I had such a visceral emotional reaction when I heard Mr. Gritty was telling our friends that our separation was mutual, that we'd been unhappy for years. I got so angry. I couldn't stop myself, I would say, no, it wasn't mutual, but I hope he figures himself out and comes back to me.

I can't imagine how I'd feel if my kids were younger and believed I had an equal part in breaking Mom and Dad up.

Quote:
And I find myself not caring. Whether she is there, here, or in a car wreck. That can't be right, can it? Is my heart just too tired to keep fighting alone?


Perhaps the fact she's with somebody you respect has a part in it? Perhaps you would feel differently if you knew she was spending the weekend with someone who was a not a friend to your marriage?


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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This is just my personal opinion here. I agree that mocking her for her religious beliefs was wrong but I see no reason why you'd feel pressured to take on her religious beliefs for yourself for the sake of the marriage. Just be yourself.


Resentment occurs when we aren't doing what we need to care for ourselves, though we expect others to do it for us.
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Thanks for the perspective, all. HopeTex is probably right - healthy detachment. Problem is, I have an off switch. I was a geeky little kid who "felt" too much. Once I learned that people could - and would - use that against me, I learned how to turn it off. And that off switch is a shiny button. I don't want to stop caring completely, 'cuz then I go into FU mode and mass casualties occur. Why am I so binary?

Thanks, again Nitty. Just knowing that you are checking in on me as I am on you helps a ton. I don't know what my wife is telling her chosen few, but her extended friend base is all Christian home school Moms. This isn't going to go over well with them at all. She has an old friend from the children's home she grew up in (long story, that one) who will probably agree with whatever she says, but that's their problem. You are 100% right. Telling the kids about this will be the hardest thing I have ever done. Worse than a Calculus III final.

2S2Q - thanks for the feedback. Oh, I know I was a knucklehead. That was 12 years ago. I have always been a Christian but fell away from active faith and growth after getting to know a Pastor very well and finding him and his belief to be highly hypocritical (his son and I were friends.) I was young, yada yada. This time around, adopting, and then really embracing Christ could have been smoother, but the proof is in the pudding. I have rediscovered myself in Him - and honestly, I have my W to thank. I am more faithful now than ever. Though W has fallen away a bit, don't you think?

Anniversary is 9/2. Somebody have a drink for me. I only drink when I'm in a good mood to begin with. Something tells me that won't be the case on Tuesday.


Me: 43 XW: 43
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BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
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Skakspr,

Just caught up on your situation. Perhaps one of the vets like sandi could chime in. You seem to have an extra hill to climb being it YOUR first marriage and your Ws 3rd. In other words, D has become almost normal to her where it is catastrophic to you. I have a good friend of mine who has literally been married 8 or so times. It is insane. She has married and divorced/annulled within months. People like that baffle me. Now granted you two have been married for quite some time, but given that she has already divorced twice before, she may not be as afraid of it as some first timers.

Anyways, just a thought...because maybe there is something you can/should do that others might.

Keep posting. Even if I am not responding all the time, I will follow you and you can know that at least one person is thinking and wishing the best for you.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
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Just backslid something fierce. W, after being gone for 3 days to her aunt's returned and wanted to talk D details. Apparently our date is set for 10/20.

Anyway, it set me on edge, caught me offguard, whatever. But I kept my cool and departed the situation with minimal damage (asked a "Why" question - oops.) Went over to a friend's to blow off my anger in a safe environment. Left feeling better and centered.

Came home, went to bed. W asked me why dog wasn't in crate. Said dog is in bed with daughter. W said, well, she's still peeing and pooping in the house. I responded: Why do you even care, it's not like it's going to be your house anymore.

She left, returned a few minutes later, pissed. I managed myself much better this time around. I apologized and acknowledged that I shouldn't have talked that way. There was more, mostly her being angry and denying that she's angry. She's been putting up with this crap for "years." I responded that I'm hurting, and human, and angry at the moment about the whole situation, that she's tearing my family apart and there's little to nothing I can do to stop her. And that, in that moment, where a dog pees or poops seems pretty damn trivial to me compared to what she's doing.

Good Lord, this stuff is hard.


Me: 43 XW: 43
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EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Man, I feel stupid. So many opportunities throughout the whole evening to make a good impression and instead I succeeded in accusing, logic/reasoning, and smartassery.

Dammit. I did put the dog in the crate though.


Me: 43 XW: 43
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"Smartassery" is going to be my word of the week. I love it.

It's replacing last week's word: "procrasterbating".


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
D: 7
Bomb: 6/30/14
Separation: 8/11/14

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Don't be so tough on yourself, for crying out loud. If you were perfect at this you'd have elbowed MWD out of the way and written the books.

Our anniversary was much harder than I expected it to be. Prepare yourself, even if you have to use that "off" switch of yours, and boy oh boy I sure wish I had one. If the FU attitude floats to the surface, just stare it in the face and don't pick it up.

Starsky quoted that line from Band of Brothers... I edited it to suit my sitch, probably should stick to watching movies, rather than rewriting them.
Quote:
We’re all scared. You hid in that ditch YOU ARE LOSING YOUR COOL because you think there’s still hope YOU ARE STILL NOT DETACHED. But Blithe, the only hope you have is to accept the fact that you are already dead DIVORCED. And the sooner you accept that the sooner you’ll be able to function as a soldier LBS is supposed to function. Without mercy FALSE HOPE. Without compassion DESPAIR. Without remorse ANY EXPECTATIONS. All war ALL DB-ING depends on it. --Lt. Ronald Speirs


I have been meaning to ask about your mom. How is she doing?


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
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09/14 H wants to R
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Nitty, that was awesome. I'm putting that all around me for inspiration.

Shakespr, I hear you. But Nitty is right on.


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
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Thanks, Nitty. I woke feeling better and your kind words gave me that extra shove I needed to get through today. (Mom's doing pretty good - she's joking about how glad she is that everyone has left her house so she can get some rest. She lives alone, mostly likes it. She's been in the hospital two weeks and had folks looking after her for two. I think that's the longest she's been around people in a while!)

Ss06 - I've got more!

I've got more, but gotta make that dollar. Peace and hope to you all! By the way, this is us:

For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man’s company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is call’d the feast of Crispian.
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam’d,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say “To-morrow is Saint Crispian.”
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say “These wounds I had on Crispian’s day.”
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he’ll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words-
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester-
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb’red.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne’er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne’er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs’d they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin’s day.

St. Crispin’s Day speechfrom Henry V - 1599


Me: 43 XW: 43
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Tonight I held a glass, Shakespr, and toasted you on your anniversary -- as well as all the rest of us in this DB band of brothers (and sisters).

Here's to all of us having the strength to face whatever will come, with self-respect and dignity.

I'm a lightweight when it comes to booze so it was just a sip. LOL. (I would throw my glass into the fireplace but as it's acrylic I'm not sure the gesture would result in the desired effect.)


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
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Nitty: You are a gem. My heartfelt thanks go out to you. We will come out on the other end of this - eventually! - just fine.


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BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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So, eldest daughter is causing a ruckus at my home and W is ready to move out now. She's "just had enough." I validated, suggested meeting at neutral location away from home to have a "civil talk with no expectations". No response. Suggestions? My default position is continue my workday, counsel my D21 to lose the hostility or get out, and let W come to me or leave at her leisure.


Me: 43 XW: 43
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EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
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Neutral location ended up being rocking chairs on front porch. No real movement - which is fine. But civil discourse has been restored. (Including a little repair on my blip from Monday.) Thank the Lord!

Anybody got a room for rent in North Texas for a month? Would like to loan you my daughter until her apartment comes open. Sullen attitude and entitlement mentality come free of charge.

Last edited by Shakspr; 09/05/14 02:56 AM.

Me: 43 XW: 43
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D21, SS15, S11, D8
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EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Feeling pretty down. The more I picture life post-divorce, the more I don't like it. I am really angry with the STBX right now. She's out of town again (dropping off the SS15 - 5th/1st wknds are back to back), and so I can keep things fun with my kids without pretense.

Until they are gone more or less for good. No Tuesday nite story time. Limited shared fun at school - everyone looks at the divorced Dad differently; I've seen it often enough. Averaging 9 of 30 nites per month blows. She's destroying my family and all the odds are stacked against me. I hope she doesn't turn around and do this again to someone else.

Anyway, ran 3 miles yesterday; swam 10 laps (500M) today. That helps. Tomorrow is a rest day, thankfully, as my right knee is not happy!


Me: 43 XW: 43
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EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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A letter to my Wife:

Dearest M____,
You and I have begun two separate journeys. I know that neither of us ever wished for our marriage to reach this point.

And yet it has. As our journey together ends and two new ones begin, sometimes parallel, sometimes apart, I ask you to consider.

If those paths cross, and you decide to linger…look around for a while. You may like what you see. I am not the man I once was. This is true because I know another Truth.

If I ever have a chance to Love you again, I will Love you so fiercely that Hell itself will be unable to tear us apart.

Truly yours,
J___

Last edited by Shakspr; 09/06/14 04:59 PM.

Me: 43 XW: 43
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D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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No idea when I will write this to her, but I will. My heart is broken but Love isn't.

Peace, Love and Joy to you all. This is certainly one heck of a ride.


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BD: 8/6
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D final 10/20
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I hope it still works out for you!


Me: 30
Him: 30
Daughter: 5
Son: 3
Daughter: 1
Started dating: 2008
Married: 2010
He moved out: late 7/14

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And the word of the day is... Detach. I was trying too many of the early techniques in DR when I should be LRT'g. I know, experimentation doesn't hurt. And while the W isn't angry with me right now, she is defensive. She's doing all she can to be somewhere else when I'm home.

I got the kids and oldest D out of the house Saturday nite b4 she came home. I didn't try R talk, just told her I miss her and I want to know what's on her mind. No doors were shut, and this was definitely a 180 for me, making time for just her and me. But, not surprisingly, she suspected I had an agenda. I simply told her I had no expectations, hadn't spent much time around her, and wanted to know how things were with her. We talked workout stuff and job hunting, as well as SS15 homeschool schedule. And I cleared up some concerns she still had about our disagreement last Monday. But I did pursue some, telling her that I still have hope, that I still think the our marriage can be healed, and asked her if I was foolish to think that. She said no, but wasn't real pleased with what I wanted to talk about.

I am pretty successful in not puppy-doggying (I ended the conversations we did have naturally and walked away...she followed me three times Sat and Sun after I thought we were done to continue the convo.) Then she accused me of being too "in her face all the time." She says she's not comfortable when I'm home (heh, that's not surprising, as there's no way she's completely happy with this decision.) I asked her if I was doing something to make her feel that way. She said no, but just because you're being nice now doesn't mean you will be 2 weeks before the D. She mentioned she's seen it before (well, she's certainly got D experience on her side - twice before me!) She said she doesn't wish any bad stuff on me, as that wouldn't help our kids any, and I don't deserve that. She even expressed concern that I would turn from faith. (Not freaking likely!) I told her that Christ was my only hope for healing, and he can heal anything, including our situation. I didn't throw the obvious hypocrisy in her face.

Anyway, I re-read some of the GAL and LRT portions of DR, and think that I went overboard pushing too hard. Patience is not one of my virtues. But the clock is ticking, and Oct. 20 (D finalization) will be here sooner than later.

Finally, I screwed up. Left early from home this AM and left DR on the nightstand. She will see it. I didn't do it on purpose, or subconsciously, just left the house at AM to hit the gym and left it there. How do I proceed? Put it away when I get home and not mention it? Or address it openly whether she asks about it or not? I KNOW IT'S NOT FOR HER RIGHT NOW! But she's snoopy.


Me: 43 XW: 43
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BD: 8/6
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D final 10/20
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So I'm not the only one who messed up this weekend. Retreat! RETREAT!

So we regroup. Put the DR away when you get home.

That letter would make any normal woman's heart melt, but our spouses aren't normal right now. So hide that, too!

Shakespr, this is the toughest thing we've ever done. I didn't have to do chemo when I got the big C, but I bet this is even harder than chemo. We're bound to stumble, especially when a big deadline looms like Oct 20.

I've got Mr. Gritty and me on every prayer list in town. I hope you've done the same. Unfortunately, we've got to remember that the answers to our prayers may not be what we want. Really, I'm not feeling good about your W being D previously. It's like what Pilot said. She's done it before.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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DR was on the floor last night when I got home. So, I know she saw it...whether she read any of it or not will be a forever mystery.

I'll be back later with some questions I intend to pose to my DB coach - I only have one session left and no more easily liquid cash. Want to make the most of it.

For instance, how do you set micro goals that don't run counter to LRT - she's filed and is marching forward with a smile on her face. For gosh sake, she's asked me to help her with her resume' tonight.


Me: 43 XW: 43
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EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Potential questions for DB coach, 'cuz I am lost or failing in these areas. Y'all weigh in if you can:

1) How do I handle cake-eating (before & after D)? Automotive? Resume' improvements? Access to the house? Moving her out? (Basically, any request for help that doesn't directly affect the kids - i.e. we will be living close together geographically, I insisted, so I intend to take on half the child "sick days" where someone would need to stay home with them.)

2) GAL? How far do I go with kids, 8, 12, 15 in the house? How much should I be taking them with me? Do I simply need to be absent more?

3) What are good goals/microgoals, when the D date is 10/20? I'm still doing Love Languages things w/mixed response (affirmation always works, touch - she's a little wary) Should I go dark (excepting child care stuff?) Do I tell her I want to create distance or just do it?

4) DB Post-divorce. What special provisions apply?

5) How do I communicate that I am not OK with this D while making my life better and seeming happier? Detach more/be more distant? How do I avoid being rude when asked, "Is something wrong?"

6) I'll be her third divorce, and though we lasted 3x as long as the other two put together, she seems to have a playbook. My being decent is an unexpected benefit to her, as far as I can tell. How do I overcome her cake eating enjoyment without being unnecessarily rude?


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I know you have the book, but did you actually read it and take notes?

For all of the above, do what you feel is right. Be polite but don't give in or accept the things she does to you if they are negative. For example, for her resume, you can help her if you feel like it and don't see it as her using you.

You have already told her that you are not supporting the D correct? Then nothing more needs to be said. If she asks if something is wrong, then you tell her that you are not okay with the D and are taking steps to get your life in order. You don't need to give her any other explanation.

Spend time with the kids and be the best dad you can.

I don't see where she's "cake-eating". She doesn't love you and so doesn't have an attachment to you. You still "expect" her to do and act as if she were your W and any actions contrary to it, you seem to call "cake-eating".


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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Mr. Bond:

Thank you for a very mild 2x4. The only thing I can add is that I suppose I resent being asked to do things that I think a husband should do, but I wouldn't do for just anyone. I want her to find a good job; resume' help is certainly OK (and something that I have offered others.)

I am concerned that her D playbook is impossible to crack. But that is just me having expectations. And I should know better.

My only disagreement with your analysis is that she often acts as if she is still my wife (makes dinners that I like, asks me how my day was, etc.); I need to understand that she is just trying to keep it civil (much like myself, but for differing reasons), mostly child-related.


Me: 43 XW: 43
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BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
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"I resent being asked to do things that I think a husband should do, but I wouldn't do for just anyone."

Like what?

"My only disagreement with your analysis is that she often acts as if she is still my wife (makes dinners that I like, asks me how my day was, etc.)"

In what way are those "wife" related? So she makes dinner for you and your kids. So what? So she asks you how your day was. So what? She doesn't have FEELINGS for you any more. Or at least in that way.

You should actually be counting your blessings that you don't have one of the WAS's that go on a full slash and burn and makes you the enemy and goes out of her way to destroy you.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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...and MrBond breaks out a somewhat larger 2x4.

I do count my blessings. You have given me plenty to think about, which is also a blessing.

If you get down do it, I resent being left behind. I am angry to the point of apoplexy at having my family ripped apart and being expected to just take it. I hate having this stranger inhabit my W's space - a stranger who is so set on D that she sees no downside to it. I suppose I need to go find my big boy pants, since DB'g isn't for the weak of heart or mind.

So, she doesn't love me anymore. And what I think of as "coming to her senses" is anathema to her current mindset.

Got a workout in this morning. I simultaneously love and hate the pool. (Gotta work on that leg kick)


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EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Nothin' much going on here. GAL'g, DB'g. Internalizing the fact that I am already divorced, and as far as W is concerned, have been since as much as a year ago.

That actually makes it easier. I can be more consistent from now u/t the state of TX says the D is final. Whatever I have from this point forward, with or without W, will be a new thing entirely. We will simply have a shared history to learn from or discard as we see fit. However, life is multi-layered. Read on.

Joked/flirted with W last nite. She is working out and looking better than she has in years (so am I). She asked me how she looks. I said pretty damn good and her new "take-charge" attitude is attractive regardless of the other stuff going on. She smiled, and later was lingering (fully clothed) in the bedroom after she took a shower. She said, "Do I really look that much better." I said, "It is taking all my self-control not to act exceedingly male right now." Smiles again. And when I said, "Hey, any time you want to cheat on your D with your husband, I know a guy." She laughed, "Like an affair...ooh." We touched hands only and she left.

I lost sleep over that moment, but it was worth it.


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EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Originally Posted By: Shakspr
"Hey, any time you want to cheat on your D with your husband, I know a guy." She laughed, "Like an affair...ooh." We touched hands only and she left.



Man I am quick witted but THAT'S A GOOD ONE!!


Me 34
W 30
T 13
M 8
BD 7/27/14
EA Confirmed 8/6/14
S 8/2/14
D Imminent

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Things I'd love to tell my wife...but probably shouldn't

Was praying this AM and got a bolt from the blue (okay, and Mr. Bond) - as far as you are concerned, we've been divorced for maybe as long as a year. And that explains a lot. And that's ok. It makes moving forward that much easier and helps me recognize the importance of being steady and consistent.

I am going to take your statement that I'm not being foolish by being hopeful at face value. Maybe you said that because you thought you needed to keep the peace, or for your own reasons. It doesn't matter. With the exception of a few minor ups and downs, this is me from here on out. My hope is in the Lord - I know what he expects of me.

I'd like to get to know you better. New hopes, dreams you have for your own future. No need to discuss our current R or sitch - whatever comes from this point forward will be an entirely new thing - with a little shared history. No need to respond now - just consider it. I won't hassle you about it.

Last edited by Shakspr; 09/11/14 11:27 PM.

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No real change, but draft divorce decree was sitting wide open on family computer when I got home tonight. Nothing unexpected, so that's a relief. Still hurts to read, but not as much as I expected.

She ought to put that away before one of our children who rises early sees it. They don't know yet. Or I can just close it.

Last edited by Shakspr; 09/12/14 04:37 AM.

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Just journaling. Saved and shut the D document early this morning. Txtd her I saw it (as well as hard copy on printer), didn't comment, told her I noticed it while shipping stuff out for eBay (true statement.)

Hard day at work + little sleep lately = LEAN ON MY WORK BUDDIES

Friends - real friends - are amazing. I am glad that I am the kind of person who is a good friend, and that I get the same in return.

Woke up this AM having a dream about two girls I haven't seen since high school 1989! - in the dream, it went bad because they showed up in same place at same time. WEIRD.


Me: 43 XW: 43
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Shakspr, I'm glad you have real friends to lean on. That's so important right now. I'm sorry you're dealing with the D documents, which must be stressful. I also can't imagine being under the same roof while that is going on.

As for dreams, I find that my dreams have definitely been twisted lately. Last night I dreamed that I was fooling around with ex-boyfriend in front of H to make him jealous, but then I became afraid of losing him.

It's funny how our subconscious tries to process what we're dealing with in real life.

I wish you the best.


M: 43 H: 39
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Married 15 Together 16
BD: 6/2014
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Got enough sleep last night to be exhausted, not delirious today. Gonna visit friends and watch football later. Got donuts w/ D8 this AM.

Briefly discussed D document w/ W last nite. No drama, just basic shared complaints of what the Atty had screwed up on the first draft. I teared up a bit once but kept my head.

She definitely has a playbook. I think that I almost cracked it when I told her I realize, that to her, the marriage has been done for over a year. Oct 20 is just a date on the calendar. What she sees now will be what she sees until D-day and beyond. So I want to start rebuilding trust and friendship so we can be good parents - together or apart.

She got real quiet. Not mindreading, but there was a distinct change in posture, etc. Then she shook it off and we went on about our respective evenings.

Last edited by Shakspr; 09/13/14 04:08 PM.

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Ain't it funny. On Friday, told W I was going out today for a while (2-7). "I don't care what you do"

Today: "Who are you going to see? When are you leaving? It's 1:00. you don't want to be late."

Gotta laugh.


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Feeling blue. Like DB'g will do nothing to retrack my WAW. I know it's helping me,but the end goal seems completely out of reach. Time to read some success stories of post-Divorce couples.


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Yep. I'm in that same "seems hopeless" place, maybe I'll go into the success stories, too.

Hang in there, we're all here to support you. 11th hour miracles DO happen!


BF:40 M:33
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T: 8, never married, no kids together
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The thing to remember is that DB is really about you, and not necessarily about restoring the relationship with your spouse. That may or may not happen, and there's little we can do to control it, although our DB actions help make it possible.

By practicing DB we become stronger within ourselves to that we can handle either outcome. Stay strong!


M: 43 H: 39
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Originally Posted By: Shakspr
Ain't it funny. On Friday, told W I was going out today for a while (2-7). "I don't care what you do"

Today: "Who are you going to see? When are you leaving? It's 1:00. you don't want to be late."

Gotta laugh.


I have a thread full of WAW questions. Surely someone here can explain why they ask so many damn questions? Shakspr, just be vague when she asks you for details. Always smile and act like you had or will have fun in your GAL's. Know that others have been exactly where you are right now...almost like watching a movie over and over. Weird stuff. However, I have found this to be true.."believe NONE of what you see and only HALF of what you hear from WAW"


Me43/WAW43..M 4y..S1 11/S2 4..Bomb2/2014..Dfile 5/2014..Settlement signed 8/20/14..D final 8/29/14
I moved out 10/10/14..WAW got D she wanted. I wanted R. No waiting,just no boundaries in her way.
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Thanks for chiming in Ahoy and Newb3. Yeah, it's weird - she's divorcing me without giving any concrete reasons. Yet she makes snide comments like "Well, you seem to be having fun with all your FRIENDS." (Tone was important on that one.) I'm just too verbal - I have to respond. But I don't get angry anymore. Just "you don't expect me to sit around here and mope, do you?"

It's a Topsy-Turvy world these days.


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Originally Posted By: Shakspr
Yet she makes snide comments like "Well, you seem to be having fun with all your FRIENDS." (Tone was important on that one.) I'm just too verbal - I have to respond. But I don't get angry anymore. Just "you don't expect me to sit around here and mope, do you?"


Mr. Gritty keeps making comments about my GALing (when he finds out about it) like, "Nobody is having me to dinner!" Today he told me our S told him I was doing watersports. He said, "I never got to do watersports!" Like it's totally unfair.

It sounds like she is noticing the changes in you and "the upper hand" has shifted a bit.

Shakespr, my sitch has changed for the better. I feel bad for my friends still in the trenches, and very concerned that I may be in the trenches with you all yet again. You never know what will happen. I'm trying to be cautious, still trying to detach.

I'm glad you're doing better, a little bit every day. I know it's helping your sitch even though that W of yours is a fool.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
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History eraser button...anyone looking for one of these?
[img:left}http://api.ning.com/files/Za*PDfdsfXgy*YEvsybPseR1M-dM*8JdHCiqSAuY4R*ipN9zlFLiz5aAYuxoqb0VJHXKKYKFwRElXAz8Jikt6zZK*Cjf5hnR/HistoryEraserButton.jpg[/img]


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Please ignore previous post. Was trying to make a funny.

Meanwhile, trying to get the courage to leave work, adopt an amazing attitude, and enjoy my evening with my new platonic friend.

My wife.

How in the blind he!! did I get so frickin' pitiful? Probably should listen to more Metallica, less Weezer.

Last edited by Shakspr; 09/15/14 10:33 PM.

Me: 43 XW: 43
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Any advice when you feel like you are in neutral? I mean, I am doing the GAL stuff, 180s (such as fitness, calm, more child involvement) and TRYING to stick to Sandi's 37 rules blueprint.

I just feel so blah (which, admittedly, is better than blue.)

In the military, we called it "marking time" which is fancy talk for marching in place.

I suppose the answer is patience. And using the gift of time in productive ways. And finding another step outside my comfort zone.

My work - my actual high-paying job - is being affected, and I know it. Suppose I better take my own advice, then:

2 Timothy 2:15 (NIV)
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.


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I know about being in neutral - I tend to want to do something destructive (and would highly advise against that).

More Metallica & More cowbell. I do try to keep a sense of humor too. Sometimes it helps to lighten things up. It may be fake, but it helps for a while.

I really know about every part of our lives being affected too.

I am still telling myself to recover - refocus on work - pick up the pieces and do what's important for myself and kids right now. But I keep falling into the same rut and the people that I let down at work pile onto my worry list. Which subtracts from my PMA, which makes me seem less like a man she would be crazy to leave. and that cycle continues.

I know to stop that snowball, force the PMA, force the productivity - but it is almost overwhelming.


Me-45 W-44
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T-27, M-21
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More cowbell...now Mississippi Queen is stuck in my head!


Me: 43 XW: 43
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Originally Posted By: Shakspr
More cowbell...now Mississippi Queen is stuck in my head!


Wait, what?


Me 34
W 30
T 13
M 8
BD 7/27/14
EA Confirmed 8/6/14
S 8/2/14
D Imminent

I quote the immortal words of Socrates who said "...I drank what?"
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You young 'uns. (Okay, this pre-dates me, too.) Rock classic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFhM1XZsh6o


Last edited by Shakspr; 09/16/14 10:42 PM.

Me: 43 XW: 43
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I think next time I am low and need a fix, I will stand up and state "I have a fever ... and the only cure is more Cowbell"


M: 48
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M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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^^^^^^^ LOL!!!!!!


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
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Separation: 8/11/14

Be strong enough to let go and wise enough to wait for what you deserve.
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MORE COWBELL!!!!!


Indeed...


Me 54 Him 63
M 23 T 29
0 Kids
Funny Farm of Rescues
12/12 OW--
5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied
9/13 Proof OW: ENDED
2/14 Got D papers on my BD
I kicked him out for my sanity
9/14 He wants to "talk"?



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Well, folks, I done gone and messed this up completely.

What started as a peaceful conversation about being on edge around the kids, and too harsh with them (both of us), ended up a full-blown airing of grievances. Not really loud, but definitely accusatory and non-productive. I did try to focus on solutions, but couldn't help myself in the heat of the moment. I feel like a failure and a fraud.

Low points of the argument:

W: How many books have you read in your lifetime?
M: 1500+
W: How many about marriage and relationship?
M: Two more now than before you said you were divorcing me.
W: See
M: Straw man argument. I shouldn't need a book to tell me how to relate with my wife.
W: Right, and if I'm so hard to relate to, why would you even want to be with me.
M: Why do your complaints seem okay for you to just blast me with, but any time I say something, you view it as an attack
W: That's not true.
M: Do you find yourself in the middle of a lot of conflict?
W: Are you implying that I do this to myself...
M: I just wonder if you ever bothered, you know, not blaming someone else for all your troubles

When all was said (and done!), I cried my eyes out. After pulling it together, I asked her to come sit with me for a bit. I said I know I'm a mess, but it is her I have gone to for years in times of trouble. She agreed, reluctantly, and that part wasn't horrible, but still. I looked a blubbering mess.

And so forth. I will keep DB'g, but it is obviously just for me now. Detachment should be easy - she despises me.


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I should have stayed in neutral. I feel like utter crap.


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Don't blow this out of proportion, if she despised you she wouldn't have tried to stay and comfort you. No one disagreement is a death knell. Shake it off and start anew tomorrow. Hang in there.

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[[[Shakespr]]]

Quote:
I just wonder if you ever bothered, you know, not blaming someone else for all your troubles

Haha!!! Sorry, but that made me LOL. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bpu0aun3AHc

And this:
Quote:
You young 'uns. (Okay, this pre-dates me, too.) Rock classic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFhM1XZsh6o

A little scary that there are people out there too young to know about COWBELL.

Last edited by Nitty; 09/17/14 04:19 AM.

M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
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I can't stop sobbing. So much of what she says is TRUE. It's mostly past stuff, but it's true. So now, on top of this hopelessness because she clearly wants OUT, I am beating the crap out of myself for every time I could have made a change.

Darn. Double Darn.

You guys are all saying the right things, but right now I'd like to just be someone, somewhere else, anyone or anyplace other than where I am.


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Shakspr, no one is perfect. We don't always have the opportunity to correct the mistakes of the past, but we can focus on being the best person we can be now and in the future. Don't beat yourself up about this. Embrace this opportunity for renewal, even if it means doing so without your wife. Seek out the things that bring you joy and serenity. Chin up!


M: 43 H: 39
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Just talked to MC, who is now my IC. She is solution oriented - her advice aligns well with DB.

Apparently my recent outbursts/over-emoting are the normal byproduct of grief. She asked me, if my wife burst through the door to reconcile, right now, what would I say?

"Thank God." But then, the reality set in. I would need to know what's changed. I would need my trust restored. And since she has just as much work to do as I do, I would need to know that she was at least willing to try.

It will probably be a long time, if ever, for that to happen. So I better get prepared to break this to my kids as gently as possible, and complete a whole 'nother grieving process.

Shakespear ("e" missing intentionally)


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OK... so one thing that helped me get through episodes like this is what I learned in my support group.

Sit down in prayer or meditation. With you I know it will probably be prayer, right?

Try to be still, with God. I always think, "Be still, and know that I am God." And it helps me to be still and wait to hear His voice.

I ask God to be with me, to guide me. And then I turn my attention to the grief/pain/despair/whatever it is I'm feeling. If I don't know what it is (and for me, it used to be mostly fear) I try to identify it. To look at it.

When I can see what it is (say, the loss of your marriage, when you expected to be married forever), I try to immerse myself in it. I think of it as a pool I just wade into.

I spent a lot of time in this pool, staring at the tableau of Mr. Gritty and OW at family gatherings, at work functions, at barbecues, etc. I think of him holding her hand, telling her he loves her, etc. I think of my kids going to their wedding. I explored every aspect of this pool, every crevice.

Somehow just looking at it this closely helped me through the worst times. Did it help me when I found a tube of her mascara in Mr. Gritty's bathroom? NO. It doesn't grief-proof you against future pain. It does, however get you through the bad episode of grief/anxiety/whatever, without avoiding it or evading it.

Now my pool is filled with other images. So will yours.

Another thing: your friends. You need somebody you can call who is a friend to your marriage as well as a friend to you. Somebody in the same gender who can listen to you sob without judging.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
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Thanks Nitty - that helped me alot today.

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Thanks, Nitty. Getting a scum skimmer for my pool. There's a lot of dreck in there. (But I'm leaving in the SNL drop you linked!)

Wife interrupted me while I was in prayer to tell me she was picking up the kids. There I was, taking your advice, as it were. She didn't realize what I was doing at first, and was apologetic after getting my attention. She asked if I was OK, I said "I will be." And I meant it. At least that didn't cause a conflict.

Working from home today to avoid looking like a hot mess at work. It's been peaceful, and the mid-day trip to the IC didn't hurt. W's still at home job-hunting (She's a LVN/LPN, so she'll find something) and monitoring the home-schooling of my SS15.

She still leans on me for so much...it's going to be a shock when I am not continually available. I'll do anything for my kids, but I know there will be abrasive moments when I say "No."

I have decided to let her stay as long as necessary to get a job and her feet under her, but I will cut her off from everything financial once the order is entered. She wants to leave, like yesterday, so she won't linger. I am 85% sure that I will not be helping her to move, except to get the children out from under foot.


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EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Better PMA today. Leaned on some friends, turned in a major assignment at work. Putting in overtime to make a little $$ and offset erratic spending in my (still) joint account.

W has two interviews lined up. I fixed her resume'. She is thankful, of course, because she is MSOffice-challenged.

Ordered Putting Kids First and Mom's House/Dad's House off Amazon. Gonna put together a plan ahead of her request for one. Some patterns don't change - she has an idea, expects me to do the heavy lifting. NP, though. The more I work on the kid stuff, the better it will actually turn out.


Me: 43 XW: 43
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BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Hey, Nitty, got your earlier post that was eaten. Thanks. I am still working hard to cope. Have got my tongue under control for now.

Cognitive dissonance. That's what this feels like. She has the same voice, speech patterns, everything. Still smiles at the same things, still laughs with or gets on to the kids in the same way.

But my wife is not there. She's been overridden by this divorce creature.

I am a mess. But I'm fighting back. I shall DB harder. I shall come through this with dignity. Somehow, some way.


Me: 43 XW: 43
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EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Need to re-read, re-invigorate, re-inspire. No more moping. Going under the one month mark to D has made me morose. Well, screw that. I am stronger and smarter and growing! wiser.

Writing down some new 180s today! Somebody hold me to it. I want accountability.

I'm going to write a sonnet. Haven't done that in 20 years.


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So, here's the thing...journalling, I suppose (hey, I wrote 7-8 lines of my sonnet...lemme alone.)

I need to understand the process. I am having a hell of a time with hopelessness and grief. I know, intellectually, that a day will come when I don't think about my W leaving me as soon as my eyes are open and the last thing before I go to sleep. I take no pleasure in the things that I like. Exercise is a temporary ameliorator.

I don't want this new reality. It pisses me off. It makes me hurt so bad that I want to break something and/or vomit.

So I have a real hard time DB'g - even the basic stuff. I can GAL away from home for a while, but my thoughts are with her. She is getting ready to go to an outpatient surgery (minor) right now in the next room and I just want to go in and hug her.

My 180's aren't enough - if they are for me, and not for her, I don't want 'em.

But I can't, of course. And I am hyper-emotional.

I am locked out of her private life now, completely. The only things she discusses with me are her job hunt and exercise/weight loss. For God's sake, she has mommyplasty scheduled for February after she finishes losing all the unnecessary pounds (BTW, I supported the idea 100% when she brought it up in June, even though we really can't afford it.)

Being honest, I have to believe there is at least a chance that an EA is involved. Looking back, when she was with her first husband, she reached out to me. (We've known each other since Band Camp in High School.) I didn't take the bait. She married the second husband soon thereafter, and while she was mid-way through that divorce, she told me she'd be in touch in 6 months or so.

Bottom line, she doesn't seem to leave a man if she doesn't think she's got another waiting in the wings.

I'm not snooping only because she's password protected the phone she got herself and I can't hack it. I suppose it doesn't matter - I'll know in the next 6 months or so anyway.

I feel like a complete fool and a failure.


Me: 43 XW: 43
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Correction. I cracked her old phone. All the texts to friends say the same thing. I insulted and ignored her for too long, building a wall. She tried to scream through the window, but I didn't pay attention.

And the recent disagreements have probably only made that worse. I am only a man, though, and my grief remains real.

So, what now? Validate, try to re-establish trust, and pray. I am open to other suggestions. I will schedule my final DB coaching sesh and look for more strategies. Re-read DR with some hope, maybe.


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Shakspr, thank you for your kind note on bashy's thread. I needed that. 25's note brought me down. I'm really trying my best, and even though I appreciate 25's guidance, I don't think he bothered to read my back story and learn about what I've been doing, aside from the holiday plans.

I'm sorry you're feeling down. Your W's back story with past relationships does raise some red flags. Better not to dwell on what may or may not be happening with other people. It won't benefit you to know if you're committed to trying to make the relationship work in the long run. Would it be nice to have honesty? Of course, but that's not something that will happen right now.

The grieving process is real, nevertheless. Just know that it will get easier in time. Sending positive vibes your way!


M: 43 H: 39
D: 14
Married 15 Together 16
BD: 6/2014
S: 8/2014
OW revealed 10/2014
Instigated dissolution 12/2014, in progress
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Shakespr, I wrote a long-winded post last night about 6pm Pacific time, and it is gone!

I think I was a little pushy, but basically I'm thinking you're not doing enough GAL activities. I know you are working out, working on personal growth, but I see GAL as doing fun activities that require planning for the future, some anticipation of enjoyment, as well as possible interactions with other people (making new friends or growing old friendships).

I said I felt you needed to make a list, pronto, of all the things you have wanted to do and never could, either because you put them off, or possibly because your W refused to do them.

I made my list: camping, going to movies, ballroom, watersports, etc., and I started doing them. Planning these events, knowing I have something to look forward to... that is huge in giving me a PMA. (Prayer is huge, too, but GAL... that's acting As If I will be okay no matter what... and I will!)

And it's something I do for myself: Get a Life. With a real life and a PMA I am able to face setbacks and recover more quickly, even if I was the cause of the setback. And heaven knows I've been the cause of so many.

What are you doing to GAL? I don't know you in person, but I think you need to purchase a subscription to a Shakespearean theatre group. Or perhaps you need to join a community theatre group! Purchase some Nascar tickets. Go camping. Join a bowling league.

In my lost post, I suggested activities like these but you have your own list in your heart. What is it that you dreamed of doing? What is it that YOU love to do? Would love to do?

Not what your W would like to do with you, not what would make your W look at you and go "wow." Erase her from this list. What would YOU love to do???

If you can't think of something you'd love to do, just think of something you'd ENJOY. What is it that would make you excited for the weekend, knowing that you had it planned? Something that would challenge you but be fun?

I just don't think that working out is a good enough GAL. It needs to be recreation, something that re creates you.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
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GALing is all about finding activities that will allow you to look forward to doing something fun in the future. Nitty nailed it!
Your mind will naturally shift focus from the pain and the hurt, to the fun plans you have for the next day, or the day after.
GALing gives you a reason to rise and shine. It gives you something to think about when all you want to think about is the bad.


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Nitty, Ahoy. Thanks, guys.

Nitty, I did read your previous post, and it prevented me from digging an even deeper hole. Your list of suggestions made me think you know me. Community Theater, MMA fights, ComicCon - all in my wheelhouse? (Hey, I'm a manly sensitive dude who used to box and likes comics ;-) )

I did spend some time talking to W, but mostly validation of her long list of complaints and an apology for recent heated conversations. Not in a self-deprecating way, but more to tell her that too late or not, I am listening now. And I hear what she is saying loud and clear, even when it hurts.

I looked all over the house for one of those "blank" personal cards to write her the letter I put up here a while back. God was looking out for me. I couldn't find one ANYWHERE!

W is recovering today from a large lipoma removal, and we just discovered that my D8 probably has Lyme disease (bulls-eye bite mark.) I am headed to the Doc, now, with her.

I will choose an activity, and post it here. Yes, I definitely need something to look forward to right now.


Me: 43 XW: 43
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EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
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Shakespear (e left off intentionally) how have you changed?

This: I insulted and ignored her for too long, building a wall. She tried to scream through the window, but I didn't pay attention.

When are you going to stop that?

-we don't need to know your W has unnecessary pounds to lose or that she's having an abdominoplasty. That you agreed to pay for-is this out of joint marital funds or do you have a separate personal account you're using for the surgery?

-we don't need to know that you rescued your W's resume or that she's office or word or w/e challenged.

-"She still leans on me for so much...it's going to be a shock when I am not continually available." Maybe yes, maybe no.

-now you've broken a trust of privacy and found out what you already knew.

This is about you changing you, to. the. core.

Can you do that?

When will you start?


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
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I will try to answer the question objectively.

Bottom line answer: Clearly I haven't changed enough.

Only question you asked with a real answer is the funds for elective surgery would have been borrowed against home equity. I think that would have required a joint decision, and it's one I agreed to without hesitation before I knew there was a BD coming. Only reason I brought it up is that one of her complaints is the I "always count the cost" and never consider her wants/needs first instead of just saying no. Now, of course, the point is moot. She took those funds out of the line of credit as an emergency fund in case I flipped out on her after BD. I didn't, any more than any of us have. She is keeping those funds as her half of the equity we had in the home, so no settlement/buyout needed.

I am too obsessed with the D event/day itself, though I try to pretend it's just a date.

I would probably be doing better (but not great) if the kids were out of the house/older. This will affect them profoundly and it clouds my vision and affects my actions.

I fall into old patterns of disagreement (validating has been added) because I believe what she is DOING right now is wrong, and I want to prevent/stop it. All this while realizing, intellectually, that there is nothing I can do to prevent/stop it.

So, how have I changed?

I do listen now. I clearly don't know what to do or how to do it when I do.

I am not being petty or vindictive about things/stuff/material goods (with a notable exception last week when our joint account was overdrawn.) I do ask for some financial predictability and agreement before making non-food/clothing/bill payments.

I listen first, thoroughly, before I respond or make a decision. Those responses and decisions still suck, and are further compounded by grief/pain. I need work in this area.

I initiated action without prompting to get some of the recommended books on co-parenting (she had mentioned this as a future need weeks ago). She appreciated that, but didn't seem interested & expressed "no time" for that and told me to come up with a plan and she would take a look at it.

That's about it.


Me: 43 XW: 43
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EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
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Really listening includes understanding.

This is hard stuff and you know you better than anyone else. You wrote out a great lists or your "wrongs" in one of your first posts.

What she's doing now you see as wrong. What you did for years, she sees as wrong. So where does that leave you?

Someone has to go first in this and you're the one here, wanting to save your marriage.

You could answer the other questions. Perhaps you're just not ready yet.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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Originally Posted By: labug

This is about you changing you, to. the. core.

Can you do that?

When will you start?



I can. I will.

Now seems like a good time to re-begin what I started when I came here.

labug, thank you for chiming in. I asked for feedback and accountability. You provided that, in Spades.


Me: 43 XW: 43
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EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
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This thread will be coming to an end soon. New title suggestions?

"How to DB without getting caught"
"DB 101 050 (remedial)"
"To DB or not to DB, is it really a question?"
"Never tell me the odds! (of DB success)"
"180s are not just tricks on a skateboard. They're hard to pull off in real life, too!"


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
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EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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So, labug.

I have thought about your post all day.

It would seem that you echo, from another angle, what most of the vets say.

So I will start by saying, to no one in particular, my W deserved a better version of me than the one she got. What I deserve is irrelevant, and something for me to deal with much later.

My actions created in her a long-term pain that I minimized and tried to sweep under the rug. I have indeed, improved too little, too late.

I am lost. I need to really listen, to my W when she chooses to talk to me, to those on this forum, to MWD through her book, and find what works. I need to do what works! And soon. My fear that it is too late shouldn't stop me from DR/DB'g to the best of my ability.

I really don't know what to do. But I will start with being "present" and quiet, without crowding. I don't know what I'm competing against, but I must do what I can to erase or contrast who I am today with the man who did all this damage. But I can be still, and listen.

And get out of the house frequently, plan some GAL other than the workouts. Because, in all likelihood, nothing I do is going to change that woman's mind about me.

I need to stop hoping for a breakthrough.

Last edited by Shakspr; 09/23/14 10:29 PM.

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Great insight there buddy. Great place to start/re-start from.


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ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14
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Originally Posted By: Shakspr


So I will start by saying, to no one in particular, my W deserved a better version of me than the one she got. What I deserve is irrelevant, and something for me to deal with much later.


I think many of us can say and admit to that, thats where we start the game plan of what to change first, and how to become a better version of ourselves.

Originally Posted By: Shakspr

My actions created in her a long-term pain that I minimized and tried to sweep under the rug. I have indeed, improved too little, too late.



Ok .. mt opinion here. I have read here a few times (I had to .. and its starting to sink in) that long term pain you caused her, its not going to be gone/forgotten/fogiven inside of a couple months while your WAW is looking to get out of your M. You can not un do those things and make it go away that fast .... you have to change for you, not for her ... she will see through it ... even if you land her back its a band aide fix, this fix needs to stick... and more importantly ... your W needs to trust it.

Originally Posted By: Shakspr

I am lost. I need to really listen, to my W when she chooses to talk to me, to those on this forum, to MWD through her book, and find what works. I need to do what works! And soon. My fear that it is too late shouldn't stop me from DR/DB'g to the best of my ability.


Its not to late, its never to late to better yourself. My advice .... and it took me a bit. STOP looking at the prize, looking at this as a game to win, getting her back can not be the goal here. Becoming a man she wants, any woman would want, work on YOU, that's where you need to focus this energy. I know its tough, believe me, months spent reading in an empty bedroom all alone, it [censored] ... but for me it was the journey I had to go through to start becoming who I needed to be. I am not there yet, not sure if I will be that man for my W .. but I am starting to accept who I am, who I want to be and I am comfortable in my own skin. (its been a year for me since BD .... and I still hope for R of my M)

Originally Posted By: Shakspr


I really don't know what to do. But I will start with being "present" and quiet, without crowding. I don't know what I'm competing against, but I must do what I can to erase or contrast who I am today with the man who did all this damage. But I can be still, and listen.

And get out of the house frequently, plan some GAL other than the workouts. Because, in all likelihood, nothing I do is going to change that woman's mind about me.

I need to stop hoping for a breakthrough.



A few tips, do these things for you, and dont tell her as the book says.
Be mysterious, you want her to take notice, become confused, there is a reason GAL, 180, PMA are the cornerstone triple threat techniques on the board. These build YOU up, makes you focus on the one thing you have control over ... YOU. you have to stop obsessing over her as hard as that is, I relate, but you have to for YOU.

Hope it helps, and may be a bit of a 2x4, but I just read your stuff and I see me from a year ago, I made those mistakes and it put me back 6 months atleast. Keep working, we are rooting for you.


M: 48
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I am going to ask the dumbest question ever, for those who have experienced success. Why/how does GAL to an evening alone (like a Shakespearean plan this Thursday, for example), even work? I would think it would agitate the WAW that she got stuck with the kids.

I'll start a new thread after I get an answer to this question.

Last edited by Shakspr; 09/24/14 12:24 AM.

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Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
A few tips, do these things for you, and dont tell her as the book says.
Be mysterious, you want her to take notice, become confused, there is a reason GAL, 180, PMA are the cornerstone triple threat techniques on the board. These build YOU up, makes you focus on the one thing you have control over ... YOU. you have to stop obsessing over her as hard as that is, I relate, but you have to for YOU.


Exactly. I did not tell Mr. Gritty anything about what I was doing. He found out about my activities when our kids told him, or when a mutual friend told him. I think I told him about one activity when he pressed me. I am an open book, normally.

I really wanted to send him updates, like, "Wow, having a load of fun at the lake, wish you were here [happy face]" but I DID NOT. Yay me. I didn't post photos on Facebook, either. (Occasionally our friends would post a photo, but I never did.)

I am waiting for the next drop in my personal roller coaster (I expect one to come, it's just a matter of time) but -- like I said -- having something to look forward to boosts my PMA, which is helping me a lot.

I love how Caliguy refers to it: "The Triple Threat."

Originally Posted By: Shakespr
Why/how does GAL to an evening alone (like a Shakespearean plan this Thursday, for example), even work? I would think it would agitate the WAW that she got stuck with the kids.


It doesn't work on her, it works on YOU. If you think it's going to work on her, you're still in the wrong place, mentally. You need to get your head into the space called "This Is For Me, Not Her."


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
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Oops... took too long to edit. I'M USING UP ALL THE REMAINING POSTS ON THIS THREAD!

OK, I cited the above threads because I think you're like me, always trying to explain why you do something, but you need to be vague about GALing.

I like the advice about rehearsing because that's what I do. Otherwise, I'm stuck, like a deer in the headlights. I have to practice being vague. I've used rehearsed lines so many times when I've been unsure of what to say; they are little crutches that gave me confidence.

My favorite rehearsed lines: "I've been thinking things through." Or, "I've got a lot to think about." And "You've given me a lot to think about." They are like the little black dresses of rehearsed lines because they can be used so often.

SHE: Where are you going?

YOU: Just out. You've given me a lot to think about lately. (Say this as if she's done you a huge favor, given you SO MUCH to think about.)

OR: Out with friends. Thinking things through.

And then you drop all thoughts of her and go have a good time.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
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Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
Originally Posted By: Shakspr


So I will start by saying, to no one in particular, my W deserved a better version of me than the one she got. What I deserve is irrelevant, and something for me to deal with much later.


I think many of us can say and admit to that, thats where we start the game plan of what to change first, and how to become a better version of ourselves.

Originally Posted By: Shakspr

My actions created in her a long-term pain that I minimized and tried to sweep under the rug. I have indeed, improved too little, too late.



Ok .. mt opinion here. I have read here a few times (I had to .. and its starting to sink in) that long term pain you caused her, its not going to be gone/forgotten/fogiven inside of a couple months while your WAW is looking to get out of your M. You can not un do those things and make it go away that fast .... you have to change for you, not for her ... she will see through it ... even if you land her back its a band aide fix, this fix needs to stick... and more importantly ... your W needs to trust it.

Originally Posted By: Shakspr

I am lost. I need to really listen, to my W when she chooses to talk to me, to those on this forum, to MWD through her book, and find what works. I need to do what works! And soon. My fear that it is too late shouldn't stop me from DR/DB'g to the best of my ability.


Its not to late, its never to late to better yourself. My advice .... and it took me a bit. STOP looking at the prize, looking at this as a game to win, getting her back can not be the goal here. Becoming a man she wants, any woman would want, work on YOU, that's where you need to focus this energy. I know its tough, believe me, months spent reading in an empty bedroom all alone, it [censored] ... but for me it was the journey I had to go through to start becoming who I needed to be. I am not there yet, not sure if I will be that man for my W .. but I am starting to accept who I am, who I want to be and I am comfortable in my own skin. (its been a year for me since BD .... and I still hope for R of my M)

Originally Posted By: Shakspr


I really don't know what to do. But I will start with being "present" and quiet, without crowding. I don't know what I'm competing against, but I must do what I can to erase or contrast who I am today with the man who did all this damage. But I can be still, and listen.

And get out of the house frequently, plan some GAL other than the workouts. Because, in all likelihood, nothing I do is going to change that woman's mind about me.

I need to stop hoping for a breakthrough.



A few tips, do these things for you, and dont tell her as the book says.
Be mysterious, you want her to take notice, become confused, there is a reason GAL, 180, PMA are the cornerstone triple threat techniques on the board. These build YOU up, makes you focus on the one thing you have control over ... YOU. you have to stop obsessing over her as hard as that is, I relate, but you have to for YOU.

Hope it helps, and may be a bit of a 2x4, but I just read your stuff and I see me from a year ago, I made those mistakes and it put me back 6 months atleast. Keep working, we are rooting for you.


All very good advice from CaliGuy. You've hurt your W in ways that are difficult for you to grasp and she will never be "over" it. She may forgive you, she may at some point think about taking another look at you but for now, you should proceed in the direction she's leading. Love and respect her enough to let her go, with dignity and grace.

And then dedicate yourself to finding out what drove you to treat your W in that way. What are you so angry about? What is your need to control about? Those answers are inside you and you probably need more than and internet message board to get to them.

Who is the man you want to be?


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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