I think my story is similar to many I have read here but it certainly helps to get it out. I have been married for 8 years and together for 10. We have two children 6 and 3. Our marriage was running pretty smoothly until about two years ago - we hit a rough patch about 6 months after our second was born - nothing unusual - just two exhausted parents. At about the same time we made the decision to move from Iowa to be closer to my family in California. My husband started acted strangely at that time, which I attributed to stress from the move. He stayed behind in Iowa for 4 months to sell the house while we got established here. Once he joined us he went through a very depressed period. He's in law enforcement and it took 5 months to get all of his certifications updated here and to get a job. Once he got a job, he seemed better for a while and we bought our dream house. It turned out that he hates the agency that he works for and has complained about how much he despises it there. His job is a difficult 45 minute commute away in another county. During this time there has been a widening emotional gap- which I attributed to unhappiness with the job, the move etc. Every time I had a whiff of suspicion, I would dismiss it with "No way- H is a great guy and would never do anything to hurt his family". 3 weeks ago he was in a motorcycle accident on his way home from work (dislocated shoulder)- the whole thing was weird- he didn't call me when it happened and had someone from work drive him home. He then called me at work and said he had ruined everything and had gotten into the accident when leaving another woman's house. He said "I'm sure you're going to divorce me and take me to the cleaners". At that moment, I realized I wasn't surprised and actually reassured him I wanted to work on the marriage. by the time I drove home 30 minutes later he had cleared out all of his clothes and left the following note: This is what it said- " I have failed you and the girls as a father and a husband. I cannot do this anymore. I want a divorce. You can have everything......(there are a few financial details about how he plans to deposit money every month into our account)....When you decide what access I can have to the girls I will take all I can get. You are a good person. I am the failure. I wanted to tell you in person but I am weak and no longer the man I once was. I know you'll hate me forever. I'm sorry I will stay in ...(the city he works)... until I can find a place. I am a failure." Basically I detached immediately (even before reading this site and others like it - my copy of DR is on the way). I did meet with him once and I was clearly angry although I didn't yell. At that time he confessed he had an affair in Iowa as well. We hammered out some financial and kid details and I told him I wanted a 6 month cooling off period and counseling which he agreed to. I have since decided that counseling would be a mistake right now - he seemed like he just agreed to avoid conflict - not because he has any interest in really working on the marriage. He is not living with the gf and is planning on getting an apartment between here and his work. Here is my immediate problem for which I need advice. We told the kids that Daddy has to sleep at work right now - they are used to his crazy schedules and haven't really noticed anything. However whenever he visits them he behaves as though he cannot stand to be in the house for a second longer than he has to and he takes the kids to a friends house in the county that he works. I am very uncomfortable with this. I don't know where they are or who these friends are, This kids need stability and frankly, while he has promised he will not take them around the gf - I obviously don't trust it. I have told him twice its not a good idea - but he seems to be ignoring me on this particular issue. How do I handle this in a detached manner. Thoughts?
I've been reading a lot about depressed husbands who leave marriages and as I read the descriptions, I have to say they fit my H to a tee. It bothers me that he was so unhappy for so long and that I didn't realize the depth of his despair (although to be fair he was actively hiding it). I guess right now lots of sex and the excitement of a new relationship are helping him feel better. He has really cut himself off from his own family - he has always had a very close relationship with his mother and now he just responds to texts from her with one word responses and never initiates any contact with anyone in his family. He's also shut down his Facebook page.
Sorry to see you here, but welcome and know we will help when we can. As far as your question about the kids. You really can't do much right now outside of voicing your opinions, you cannot and will not control his actions. You could seek legal advice, possibly keep him away from kids, but don't know if that would help or hurt. If he is bringing around GF or bad influences, you will know at some point. Your kids are old enough and will want to tell you what they did with H, more than likely.
He is going to keep away from everyone for a while as well. Family, friends, trying to hide what he is doing. Now is not the time to put in any stock in what he's doing. Have you read Sandis 37 rules? Big one believe nothing you hear and half of what you see. I too had a very depressed spouse. Have been separated about 4 months, but ongoing issues for much longer. It will take lots of time, and patients, but looks like you are at least starting out right!!
Other than the one meeting we had - the only time I see him is when he picks up/drops off/ watches the kids. I can't really tell his attitude at these times. Sometimes it seems hostile, sometimes not, but always seems like he can't stand to be around me for a second longer than necessary. Last Saturday I went out with friends to a movie. The minute he heard me pull into the garage, he walked out to his car to drive away.
Other than the kids he certainly seems to be doing things to "burn his bridges". The day he left, he cashed in his retirement account. The first time I saw him he "returned" the house key and gate opener. And as mentioned before he has been hiding from family.
As far as him taking your children to a friend's house, he has a right to take them wherever he goes unless he's putting them in real danger. He has a cell phone, right?
This is all very tough stuff and you're at the very beginning. Read the book when it comes, read lots of threads here and take care of yourself. A lot is being asked of you right now.
If you read a lot about depression, you've undoubtedly seen that denial is a big factor. You can't fix him. That's his work if he chooses to do it.
Take care. Things will get better.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Thanks - I do not want to do anything to make the situation adversarial and I guess I've already realized there's nothing I can do if he wants to take them around the gf. I just wish he would put his "dad" hat on and realize that driving them 1 1/2 hours round trip every time he sees them is not the greatest idea.
My oldest is starting school this week and he will be getting her ready and picking her up three days a week which should help the situation self correct somewhat
1. As bad as this situation is - in some ways it is a bit of a relief. I've felt there was something "off" for so long, but was always willing to accept the easiest explanation or chalk it up to "all marriages go through rough patches", that it is kind of nice to know what the heck was really going on for the past two years.
2. Have read through DR. Was already doing 180s without realizing it (my gut instinct from the beginning was that this was so dramatic that he needed space).
3. Fully engaged in GAL. Volunteered to coach daughter's U8 soccer team even though I never played. Took me a while to get through DR, because I've been spending a fair amount of time scratching my head over "Dummies Guide to Coaching Youth Soccer". I'm starting my oldest daughter on piano lessons and was thinking I might pick it up again- haven't played in 20 years. Flying to Seattle two weeks from now for the weekend (H will take girls camping). In some ways GAL is hard for me, because I am by nature an introvert, but I guess this is the time in my life to stretch.
4. I've set a goal to do something every week for my appearance. Last week - flattering haircut - this week - teeth whitening - next week - mani/pedi (which I am usually too frugal to treat myself to.
5. Like a lot of people on this these boards - I'm on the "Separation Diet". 10 lbs in 3 weeks. Right now , I'm really working on getting at least 1200 calories of nutritious food in me, but once I stabilize, I want to train for one of those crazy obstacle course mud run thingies (there are several coming to my area in the fall)
6. Finally part of my GAL needs to be focusing on career. I make a good living (more than H), but I haven't really been trying to advance. My current job has allowed me an excellent quality of life with a really flexible schedule that has been great for the girls. However if this D goes through, I'm going to have to kick it into high gear to still be able to provide the life I planned for my daughter. There are trainings I can go to now that will better position me to do this.
7. I am seeing a IC. First session wasn't particularly helpful, we'll see how the one on Friday goes. She said I need to take smaller steps right now and not worry about the future (see #6) so much. Sorry, but there are practical considerations in real life that I have to pay attention to.
Here is my immediate problem for which I need advice. We told the kids that Daddy has to sleep at work right now - they are used to his crazy schedules and haven't really noticed anything. However whenever he visits them he behaves as though he cannot stand to be in the house for a second longer than he has to and he takes the kids to a friends house in the county that he works. I am very uncomfortable with this. I don't know where they are or who these friends are, This kids need stability and frankly, while he has promised he will not take them around the gf - I obviously don't trust it. I have told him twice its not a good idea - but he seems to be ignoring me on this particular issue. How do I handle this in a detached manner. Thoughts?
Have you talked to a family law attorney yet? You have a legal right to know where your children are at all times, I would think, and considering he's admitted to two affairs already it might be time to put some formal protections and agreements in place? Doesn't mean you have to file for D or anything, but you should at least find out more about what your rights and responsibilities are, and also those of your husband.
Is this man really a man of character who's temporarily lost his way, or is this (serial infidelity, leaving you with a NOTE for goshssakes) the signs of a much greater moral weakness in him? What kind of family does he come from?
Is this man really a man of character who's temporarily lost his way, or is this (serial infidelity, leaving you with a NOTE for goshssakes) the signs of a much greater moral weakness in him? What kind of family does he come from?
Starsky [/quote]
Well - that's the big question isn't it? I know that he was a man of character for the first 8 years. I don't know if he's completely changed, if he will come out of this, or if this is part of a longer downward spiral.
His parents are still married. He has a very close relationship with his Mom although he does seem to have some hangups about his Dad.
I don't believe he is a serial womanizer. I think he had the first affair - didn't tell me about it and kept in contact with her - and was really grieving for it and feeling terribly guilty and ashamed. All the while he's been pushing me away and getting lonelier and more depressed until another affair was almost inevitable.
So far he's kept his word regarding finances and he has been willing to step up and agree to a pretty inconvenient schedule to help with childcare.
I don't think he's a danger to the kids, most of his friends and acquaintances are in law enforcement. I'm trying to think long term and keep things as amicable as possible should D happen - so I think I might just have to be the bigger person on this one.
Also- my oldest is such a Daddy's girl - she really needs to see him as much as possible.
If we can have a calm conversation- I will reiterate how much it bothers me and try to get him to see it from my side.
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Is it weird that I'm not jealous of the OW at all? I do wonder about her (does she have kids, if she is some sort of drama queen etc...) and what her situation is - but strangely I'm just not jealous. Maybe I'm living in a complete fantasy land - but I just can't believe that a relationship that starts under these circumstances is going to have any kind of positive future.
Tomorrow is is first day of school for D6. Hate that it will be just me taking her. Last year when she started Kindergarten, H and I walked on either side of her, each holding a hand. Breaks my heart to think of how much her life will be changing. I feel physically ill every time I try to visualize sitting her down and explaining a divorce to her. It sure makes me wonder if H has even thought about things like this. I was going to text him a picture of her tomorrow in front of her new classroom.
I guess I should say since I haven't before - that I do want to save my marriage. Sometimes I wonder if I will still feel the same way in 6 months. I spend so much time hoping that H will come out of affair fog and want to work with me that I haven't really thought if I would ever be able to get past all this.
H is picking up girls for a few hours tomorrow night and then taking them for the day on Saturday. Dreading that he will inevitably take them out of town again on Saturday.
raliced, So sorry to hear you are in this situation. Whatever happens in your M, you are in good hands here. This forum has been a true life-line for me. Someone told me early on here that, even though we start DB to try to save our marriage, it becomes clear that whatever happens with our M, we will save ourselves through this process, and be able to be strong, healthy role models for our kids.
Sometimes - its the little things. Yesterday I got the official notice from the post office that H has forwarded his mail. This morning - I realized that he has actually taken the time to rename my email address. Instead of just "Ruth" - it now reads "Ruth-girls mother". I guess now that he's a bachelor again, he has time to consider and make all these practical and symbolic changes. Shouldn't really surprise me but does feel like a fresh gut punch.
I know exactly what you mean, raliced. My W created a e-mail address using just her maiden name. Changed her last name in her Linked in account too.
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
Had 2nd appt with IC today. Not sure I find any of it comforting - but I suppose it's good to talk about things with a neutral third party. Told her how my husband had changed my email address from "Ruth" to "Ruth- Girls Mother" and she actually said "Ouch! that was really a decisive statement from him, wasn't it?". Told her a little bit about my approach with DB and I'm preferring to only believe about half of his actions right now :-)
Sigh - I know I'm supposed to detach in thought as well as action - but when I drove to pick up D6 from school today - I saw H's truck in a parking lot in between the Post Office and the park an hour and a half before he was supposed to pick up the girls (he lives in a different town now) and my heart and mind both started racing wondering what I was doing.
When he brought the girls home - I wasn't here yet. As soon as I parked the car, he immediately rushed out to his truck and drove away. You'd think I was the one who cheated and left, based on what I guess is his hostility to me.
Today is starting out feeling kind of bleak. I woke up at 2:00 am with my mind racing and it really hit me that even though the BD was only 3 weeks ago that my husband has actually been checked out of the marriage for 2 YEARS (when his first affair started. And that the man who I once would have described to strangers as "honest and just a great guy" has in fact, not only been lying to me but lying with a fair amount of skill and polish. I think the enormity of Dbing this to try and salvage my marriage and family is first and foremost in my brain.
The other issue I am having is that in all that time, we never had arguments and my husband never complained. Trying to figure out where to pull a 180 is challenging. I know that prior to all this, my husband was fond of saying things like "he married up" - and somewhere along the way he lost all admiration and respect for me. I know one of the issues in the marriage is that I probably avoided conflict and let all the little things go that were bothering me - but doing a 180 on that one and directly addressing things that bother me directly now - seems to run counter to the whole concept of detaching and LRT.
So - I'm pulling myself up by the bootstraps this morning. One thing I can say is that I'm a pretty indifferent housekeeper, and while my husband always claimed it didn't bother him (back when he talked to me about such things)- I am still going to embark on some home improvement as part of my GAL. Worst case scenario, I will have a nicer environment for me and the kids. Therefore, after he picks up the kids today, I am going to put my closet in apple pie order and then banish that weird color from the hallway that the previous owner had all over the house. Begone -Weird Peachy Pink!
H seems absolutely determined to not touch a single thing from the house - to the point of ridiculousness. Yesterday he took the girls swimming. I asked if he wanted me to have them in their suits. he said yes - and could I have something for them to wear after - but if it was too much trouble he could just buy something.
Today when he picked them up - he had purchased DVD players for them to watch in the car and bought copies of movies that we already have to go in them.
he's taking them camping next weekend while I go out of town. I wonder if he is actually going to buy all new camping equipment rather than use ours?
Mornings are tough. I think I brood about things when I wake up in the middle of the night and they still cast a shadow when I wake up. The "Thought of the Night" this time was a bit of a pity party because I found myself thinking that I am just really tired of always being the strong one.
Throughout every crisis in the last ten years (usually family or financial stuff) - I'm the one that's come up with a plan to move forward. When something goes wrong with the house and H can't figure it out - I'm the one that does all the research to figure out what to do. This spring, both of our longtime family dogs developed cancer, and I'm the one that takes them on that last drive to the vet. And now of course - I do the majority of putting up a brave face for the kids, getting the house refinanced so that I'll be able to keep it for the kids even if a D happens, etc, etc. I don't know if there is a 180 in here - am I supposed to be more helpless and vulnerable?
Time to shake it off face the day. More home improvement projects and making homemade kites with the kids today.
Since this whole thing started 4 weeks ago, I have not been able to cry. Sometimes I think there must be something wrong with me. Yesterday was "Back to School" night at D6s school and after the little presentation the teacher gave, I hung around just to let her know the bare bones of the situation in case D6 starts acting up. The teacher's eyes started welling up as she listened, but not mine. Maybe I need to watch a really, really sad movie. I have to believe that crying would be cathartic right now.
It takes all sorts raliced. I don't think there's anything wrong with you. I just Googled 'learn to cry' and the first article was on Psychology Today website though I have to admit I only read the start.
Sending you some (((hugs))) and a bag of onions.
(Not so) Old Dog xx
M: 57 / EW: 52 T: 21, M: 8 S: 18, S: 15 Bomb: 1 Jun 14 EA Aug 2014 I think PA Feb 2015 possibly sooner
I hear you, raliced. well, I had no trouble crying initially but lately no. I'm not a cryer by nature but it was feeling good to cry because it has been YEARS since I shed a tear and it was making me feel like I was finally getting in touch with some feelings even though they were painful. It's like I was numb for so long and any feeling after that is freeing and cathartic.
Not everyone has to cry though to feel catharsis or to mourn or grieve. Maybe you have other ways... then again, maybe you're still in shock.
Whatever it is, you are clearly a pillar of strength, raliced. Not because you don't cry but just because.
I can't say that I am much of an astrology person - but my horoscope (Sagittarius) for today did catch my eye. Seemed pretty apropos.
If things seem dire, just remember that the outcome is up to you. It may be that you've got the time you need to take care of everything, but if not, prioritize and get the right stuff done first.
My M ends, my dog dies, nada. I see a kid drop an ice cream cone or watch a sad commercial and I lose it.
Maybe I repress all my emotions and then am super sensitive to the pain of others (except for my STBX where somehow I couldn't see past what she was doing to me). That's why I used to live by the motto "If you knew the person you were talking to was thinking about ending their life today, how would you treat them?"
I don't know if this post was meant to be funny or serious. Either way it is supportive. Answers don't come in a day and you'll be riding the roller coaster for a while. Just remember any thoughts and feelings you have will fluctuate. Let them wash over you, listen to what they're telling you, but don't form conclusions about how to view your sitch until you've stabilized and grown a lot. You absolutely can do it.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
So- I am going out of town this weekend and H is taking the girls camping while I am gone.
I will: Try to not let this situation be the only thing I think about all weekend Let myself feel joy visiting an old friend Enjoy going to a sporting event Eat pizza with abandon Try to embrace my new mindset that I will not even hope for improvement (other than more civil child exchange) for 6 months. (That's as close as I can get to "no expectations".)
I will not: Care if H buys brand new camping equipment rather than use our "family equipment" Worry that he has packed appropriately for the girls. If he runs into a problem he will just have to deal with it. Expect anything other than the usual "hot potato" exchange when I come home Sunday.
Remember ... baby steps. Looks like you are on track, we all have been put on this rollercoaster against our will, and its frustrating knowing only one of us cares enough about the marriage to do all this reading, changing, self improvement .... but then we start realizing .. wow .. this feels good, for ME .. not them ... and it gets easier... and with a little luck we start seeing changes in them .. little positives to show us we are making small slow steady progress.
Eat that pizza, keep the PMA going, you have a rooting section and support group here cheering you on.
So - a petty practical question for everyone. H is continuing to deposit the same amount that he used to contribute towards monthly expenses into my account. (He won't be able to keep that up forever and he'll burn through that retirement account he cashed in pretty fast)
The one item that is really still a "shared bill" is our wireless. I was thinking of splitting my phone off from the "family account" (and changing my number while I'm at it-I've never changed it from Iowa. I figured this would eliminate any possibility that at some low moment I might start snooping in his records. Any thoughts? Should I actually try to keep everything together?
And - just a related item of interest. I cannot believe how much our internet usage has gone down since he is not longer in the house. Seriously makes me wonder what he was doing/watching on there.
Yeah .. if you can not help yourself from the snoop issue ... I would suggest you remove that. If you read enough here ... you will soon come to realize that snooping only hurts you and your goal of what you really want out of this, you must detach, and letting that go is a biggie (I know .. I still have backslides here ... none she knows about, but it keeps me aware I am not as detached as I know I need to be.)
They are gonna do what they do .... all we can do as LBS is focus on ourselves, make ourselves a better person .... regardless of their actions/ words.
So I went out of town for the weekend and had a lovely time with an old friend - got to really laugh for the first time in a month - just a really enjoyable GAL activity and much needed break.
Then I got home.....
My husband had told me he was taking the girls camping for the weekend (which I talked up all week to them). When I got home he did his usual move of leaving immediately.
D6 then informed me that in fact they had not gone camping but had spent the weekedn at the "birdie" house (apparently whoever lives there has a parrot) which is where H is apparently living with a single female. As I have mentioned earlier in this thread H had promised me that he was not living with the gf and that he would not take my kids around her. I have to say appearances are against him here.
Just asking for a reality check. I am entitled to be angry about this, right? I am not in any way being unreasonable, right? Regardless of if he is living with the gf or not he should be forthcoming about what he does with the kids, right?
Here's the situation. I wrote an email to H after this , which I thought was very diplomatically worded, explaining that I was uncomfortable with not knowing where the kids are and what they are doing. H EXPLODED. Got a lengthy email response from him saying that we could "never come back" from me suggesting that he would put the kids in danger...a whole section about everything I did wrong in the marriage and ...."This isn't working...you and I view the past in two dramatically different ways". Just to review we've only been separated for a month (which was an Out of the Blue BD)For the record, I haven't said anything about how I view the past. I tried texting him to say that I think he misunderstood my email and that maybe we should talk for just a few minutes to clear the air. He replied he would prefer email communication right now but if I had something to say he would talk to me tonight after he drops off the girls. Sigh. So I did text him immediately (I couldn't email where I was)saying that I was not questioning his parenting skills and later that night I sent him this:
H,
So - here's the thing. I think I texted you most of the immediate things I had to say, but we obviously need to talk more, so yes, I would like to talk with you after you have dinner with the girls on Wednesday. I don't think our email exchanges have been effective. We won't be able to talk in front of the girls - so you will need to wait around until after they are asleep.
The day we met in the park I was angry, although I was trying not to be. I think you can understand why. Now that I have had a little time to absorb this whole strange situation, I view it less as an "angry situation" and more as a very sad one. That doesn't mean I won't be angry from time to time and that I won't say angry things sometimes. This is a very stressful circumstance - but I am willing to reach out to you to make things better. We could have the most rainbow and sunshine filled divorce in history and it still will not be smooth sailing and we will have to start working through these bumps (and that means actually talking to each other). For the near future I want us to be able to have comfortable child exchanges and better communication regarding the girls. I want you to understand that I am not questioning your parenting, but that I do have some concerns that you could ease.
You said that you were a terrible husband. I do not think that. I know that I caused many issues in the marriage as well. That doesn't mean that I'm okay with what you've done or that any of these issues were a justification for your actions the last two years. But right now, I am focused on being better partners for our kids. I am looking forward to communicating better and am entering our conversation on Wednesday night with a positive frame of mind.
I will see you then.
*****************************************
So - first of all- I have to say that I'm glad I've done so much reading since the BD. So many sources predicted the hostility after the guilt, and the rewriting of the marriage history, so even though it hurt (it was almost as bad as the day of the BD), I guess it wasn't totally unexpected.
I am going into tonight's meeting with 3 goals: 1. Set up some structure regarding child exchanges and also get the address of where he is living and some basic info about who he is living with.
2. Reaffirm the 6 month cooling off period
3. Set a boundary that if he wants to bring up old marriage issues, I am only willing to do that in the presence of a neutral third party (counselor or mediator). No good can come of the two of us trying to work through these issues with each other right now.
I know I'm not supposed to believe anything they say, I know this is early on - but this has been a rough couple of days.
Well - that went surprisingly well. Basically got all three things that I was looking for. Of course, he said nothing but "ok", but he did have the good grace to look fairly sheepish. I know this is going to be a long haul, but at least I feel on a little firmer footing right now. Back to a year before divorce at a minimum. A lot of positive can happen in that time.
I think your goals were honest, clear and realistic and your grounded attitude I think it what made H seem a bit sheepish. Let's face it, you're acting like the adult here. Good for you because frankly, it's hard not to scream and yell and want to throw stuff at H, right? But you didn't. Bravo.
Keep it up! That feeling of firm footing... hold onto that. Write down what that feels like and what is making you feel that way because when you feel less sure of your footing, you can then refer back to it to remind you of some things you can do to feel like you have control again.
Honestly, sometimes I worry I am a little too grounded. I don't yell or scream and my response to problems and issues is to get very very calm.
Maybe I should pull a 180 and actually raise my voice and do some fist-shaking.
Sooooooo....last night I said I would send him an email summarizing what we discussed and agreed to, so that there would be no misunderstandings. I addressed his moral outrage that I was questioning his parenting by explaining that I didn't think he would put the kids in danger, but that I did in fact think he was capable of lying to me about taking them around OW. As evidence, I calmy cited a few of the lies he told to cover the affairs and basically spouted off "Fool me once.....", in a non-confrontational way. He was supposed to email me his new address, the name of the person he lives with, and how he knows her.
He has not done this yet and it seemed like a simple request. I am girding myself for the possibility that he may now confess that he has been living with the g/f and exposing the kids to her. It's either that or he is just so passive that he can't initiate an email on his own and is waiting for me to send him one first.
So H had a doctor's appt today to get a medical clearance to go back to normal duties at work. He did not get it which meant that he will have the weekend off and could spend time with girls (I was going to take them camping but said I would be happy to give him a day if he wasn't working). He texted me that he wasn't cleared, I texted back he could have the girls tomorrow as soon as he sent me the info about where he is living and ....he texted back "take them camping". Uh...I know we're not supposed to mindread, but I assume that means he is in fact living with the girlfriend, and has been caught lying to me yet again. There is no other interpretation possible, right?
Honestly, who knows? It's possible he made other plans and didn't want the girls for the holiday weekend.
I am so sorry you find yourself here. You seem like you are doing a nice job. Keep focusing on you and the girls. OW? Don't waste the energy thinking about her.
3 kids BD 12/15/13 (IDKIILY. ) Rope dropped Cirque du Soleil style D final 9-9-14 "Some people are born on 3rd base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." Barry Switzer
I don't actually think about the OW very much, frankly at the moment she is welcome to H. But I do care very much about her being around the kids and not just because I'm being petty but because, my IC, the children's counselor and every other source I have consulted says its a very bad idea. H has sworn several times he wasn't taking the girls around her, but his resistance to providing his address and the name of the single female he lives with (and he has had the girls there for an overnight)leads me to think he is simply incapable of the truth.
I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here. I really want for him to give final confirmation that he is living with OW (and has lied again) just so we can clarify the new situation regarding kids. He would only be allowed to see them at our house. Do I email and say "H- just cough up the living situation" ?
Rather than trying to get a confession out of your H, why not just hire a private investigator and get some photos. Once you have the evidence his attempts to lie about his new "living situation" will become much harder. Perhaps two or three different nights showing he is there, and the time he leaves is clear enough evidence? Best wishes.
Truthfully, I don't think there's any real question that he's living with the OW. I know it and he knows I know it. I guess I would just derive some paltry satisfaction from hearing him say "I lied".
I do feel like a bit of a chump, because several friends have been telling me he must be living with her, and I have defended him (even at this point) by reasoning that he admitted to the affairs and why would he lie about this? I guess I thought the rule about "don't believe anything he says" was in regards to not believing any mean or hurtful thing he might say. I have now finally gotten it though my hard, hard head, that I cannot trust ANYTHING that he says. Seriously, if he says the sky is blue, I will go outside to verify. This whole mini-drama has also reinforced my view that the "affair fog", or whatever you want to call it, has made him INSANE. I cannot emphasize enough how much lying is out of character for him. He is a complete and total stranger right now.
Anyway - I've decided to stop driving the bus on this one. Since the BD, he has passively sat back and waited for me to tell him when he is "allowed" to have the girls. I'm not doing that anymore. We had already worked out that when he goes back to his regular schedule he will get them ready for school and pick them up on his days off. Those activities will not allow him to take them out of town to his new digs, so they are fine. If he wants anything more than that, he will have to initiate the discussion and give me the information I have been asking for regarding his living situation.
And along those lines, I guess I can't believe he will finish the treehouse for D6, so I am just going to have to figure out how to do it. Spent the morning in the garage, reviewing the plans and timidly poking the power tools. I've been a little afraid of them ever since I read that Robert Frost poem in High School where the kid cuts off his arm with a chainsaw and dies. But really, if H can do it, so can I.
So, I was sitting here thinking I should try and motivate myself by thinking of things that I love about H: the way he always wanted to hold my hand while we were driving somewhere, the silly voices he used to carry on conversations with the pets and the way he anxiously stroked my hair as I suffered through the difficult delivery of our firstborn.
And then I realized, it doesn't matter. He's not that guy right now. He's a guy who treated me very badly in the 2 years since his first affair started. He's a guy who left his family via note. He's the guy who cannot stop lying to me, even now. I don't know if the H I knew will ever reappear, and if he does he still might not want to return to the marriage. He might stay this same sad person, and it's possible he might continue to downward spiral. In the midst of all the pain he's caused, I've still felt myself worrying about him and what he is putting himself through.
No more. I can't think about the H that I love right now. I have to turn that love to myself and my children right now.
And the saga just keeps going. H FINALLY sent me an email this morning giving me the address of where he lives and said he lives with a fellow cop. He did not give me her name like I asked. He also asked if he could have the girls for overnights during the school week.
So I'm back to "Is he/isn't he living with the girlfriend"? And I only care about this at the moment because I don't want the girls around her.
By the way - please feel free to chime in. H now lives 45 minutes away. Does it seem reasonable for him to pick the girls up from school - drive them to his place for 45 minutes, spend the evening with him and then have him drive them back to school in the morning (another 45 minutes). Honestly - I'd like some opinions - that seems unpleasant to me - but maybe I'm being overprotective. H works weekends so he can't really have them then.
So I'm back to "Is he/isn't he living with the girlfriend"? And I only care about this at the moment because I don't want the girls around her.
By the way - please feel free to chime in. H now lives 45 minutes away. Does it seem reasonable for him to pick the girls up from school - drive them to his place for 45 minutes, spend the evening with him and then have him drive them back to school in the morning (another 45 minutes). Honestly - I'd like some opinions - that seems unpleasant to me - but maybe I'm being overprotective. H works weekends so he can't really have them then.
Raliced, at first I was totally balking about the 45 minute drive, but then I realized that there are times that a drive to or from school can take me 45 min. Not on a regular basis, but with traffic depending on the time of day. So...if that's the only time he can take them, and otherwise he's a good dad, then I'd probably agree to that. Exposing them to OW, however, is a dealbreaker in my opinion, something I've made clear to H that he is never to do as long as we are M. He has agreed with me, but he hasn't moved out yet, either. Good luck with all this, I hate it for both of us.
My philosophy is that if he is willing to do that 45 minute drive, then awesome! It might be unpleasant and it's going to take forethought (potty first, etc) but he can do it. If he wants it and he's doing it then, besides the unknown exposure to OW, I say let it happen.
I think I'm developing a knee jerk reaction to be hyper- protective of the kids - so it's good to hear rasonable perspectives from people in similar situations. Thanks!
I drive my kids to school every morning, ever other week. The commute is about an hour each way. so I spend 4 hours a day in the car. I would do it every day of every week if it meant I got them full time.
Me: 42 W: 32 Married 7 years together 8.5 S1: 7 S2:7 Bomb #1: 09-16-13 Recon #1: 11/13 A discovered 04-03-2014 W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me I filed D 12-02-2014 S 05-31-14 Divorced 5-19-16
My GAL activity of coaching my daughter's U8 soccer team is coming along nicely. I now know the names of all the positions, and I have the girls running the right direction towards the goal (although they do so all clustered together in a tight group). I am doing this for the stated purpose of GAL, and to be more involved with my daughters activities, but I'm not going to lie, I do think it would be a good opportunity for H to see me in a positive light if he comes to any of the games. I will also sign up to be her Peewee basketball coach (bonus - I've actually played basketball so I will know what I'm doing with that one).
My H has never said anything, but I think he does have some issues with my laid back parenting style and he probably has a point with that. So I am putting some more structure around the girls lives by putting up some chore charts. I've also been researching meals that we can make together so that they can help me make dinner most nights.
Tackling one area of the house at a time, trying to declutter and make it a more serene, welcoming place.
I signed up for some DB coaching, because while I get the idea of GAL, 180s, detaching and LRT, I feel like the communications I have with H are way too adversarial right now, and I need some help with that.
Bad news- Was looking to refinance house to lower the payment and the appraisal came in too low. Bummer.
Had my first DB coaching session today. My coach agreed that H sounds depressed and also a little MLC and said it was a tough situation based on how withdrawn he has become. We also discussed how passive he is. When I read threads about WAS who decided to do the work to reconcile, I confess I have a hard time imaging H being that active under the best of circumstances
So, anyway, my first "to do" is to include words of praise when I email him. I can do that!
Saturday is D6's first soccer game. I will be coaching, and if he shows up it will be a good opportunity to show him what a smiling, direct eye-contacting, tall glass of water I am. Even better, I hope to have a blast with my little team running in a tight cluster up and down the field.
We're just guessing right now - I got the book today on my Kindle and will read this weekend. The coach thought it was likely based on my description and regardless it should help lead to friendlier communications which is my short term goal.
H sometimes said I was being critical. Honestly - on a scale of 1-10, I would put myself at a 3 on the criticism range, but he has always been very sensitive to it. I've actually made a concerted effort to be careful not to criticize since I realized this (about 4 years ago) and I started thanking him more at that time, which I guess is not quite the same thing as praising him - so I'm happy to give it a go.
The book is hugely insightful. You can go to the 5LL website and take a test to get an insight now as to your own LLs. The dynamic between people with different LLs (my H and mine are basically opposites - surprise!) is fascinating to me but it is so telling.
Bracing myself. H has another dr. appt today to see if he can go back to regular duties at work (which would also change his schedule). This means he will contact me at some point today. I can't help but notice that a lot of the posters on this site seem to look forward to/ enjoy their contact with their WAS. This is not the case with me right now. I feel tense beforehand and drained afterwards, and I actually look forward to days when I am pretty sure we will have no contact. Hopefully, the advice from DB coach will get communication on a better footing, and will make interactions less weighted and stressful.
Go into these talks "acting as if" it's going to be light, friendly, informative and that is all. How would you behave if that's the kind of talk you'd be having? Do that. Listen more than you talk, validate where necessary and cut it short if you need to. It's just information that needs to be exchanged. Nothing else is necessary, right? You can only control YOU so make sure your words are neutral, your tone friendly and do all you can to be non-reactive to his words and tone. It's so hard but you will never regret handling yourself with the utmost grace.
Also, it's helpful for me to have something to do afterwards so I don't dwell on every single word exchanged for the next 4 hours. I'm not the best at planning that but when I do, I'm so grateful!!!
I hope your h gets good news from the doctor. Heath issues are challenging and we only have one body. Sometimes we take the blessing of good health for granted.
You aren't alone. I relish N/C with my stbxh. He is not someone I would be friends with in his current state. I have this great aversion to lies so we don't converse much. It gets better though and this is who he is now. I hope to change that at some point, however we have the rest of our lives to figure out what that looks like.
Hope you have something fun planned for the weekend.
3 kids BD 12/15/13 (IDKIILY. ) Rope dropped Cirque du Soleil style D final 9-9-14 "Some people are born on 3rd base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." Barry Switzer
After the BD, I think I took LRTing a little too far. We've only had two actual conversations (where I did almost all of the talking and he just said "ok..ok..ok.."). Everything else has been via e-mail or text and I was very brisk and business like. Short term goal is just to get the email communication better - so I will be working to make the tone a friendlier, breezier and more accessible and of course, adding in words of praise whenever possible.
I also spent in front of the mirror this morning practicing a sincere smile for those occasions when he does see me. My boss says I always look snarky when I smile.
Just reporting back on the much antcipated interactions yesterday. Warning - this will be a dull post.
I ended up having to initiate contact via text because I got a call from D3s school that she had a fever and I needed to pick her up. I texted H to tell him this (D3 was hospitalized with pneumonia last year, since then we've been extra nervous about her health). Also said "hope you dr. appt went well". Here's the text exchange:
H: "I start work tomorrow" M: Glad to hear it - I'm sure you're tired of desk duty. Will send you a note when we are done at Drs. H: Ok
Later that day:
M: D3 is ok - will be on anitbiotics for 5 days H: Ok
When I got home he had emailed me his schedule for the next 4 weeks with no comment - just a picture he took of his schedule. I emailed back (we hadn't resolved whether he could have the girls for overnights during school week) and was careful to use words of praise like my DB coach suggested:
"Hi H,
I'm glad you are off of desk duty and hope your injuries are all healed up. I know you're good at whatever job you do, but I can't really imagine you on desk duty.
I spoke to the therapist about overnights during the school week, and she wasn't enthusiastic about all that driving given their ages.
That being said, you are a wonderful and conscientious father, your daughters adore you and they need to see you, so I'm willing to give it a go.
Let's start with one night a week (and maybe later we can add a second night here and there).
......(logistical stuff about pick up and drop offs)
If you have an alternate suggestion, please let me know.
You are very welcome to get them ready for school and pick them up on other days as well. I appreciate any extra time I can spend at work right now. If you would like them on a weekend evening - let me know. Sundays would be best.
Thanks"
Of course - no response to that.
I sent a picture of D6 in her soccer gear on opening day to him this morning and he responded - "Thank You".
We are major conversationalists right now in the Raliced household......
So we have hammered out a schedule where I will see H twice a week- once when he picks up girls and once when he drops off - which will be when I coach D6s soccer team and he will hang around for practice to watch D3 for me.
I guess this means I need to pick up some more flattering athletic clothes since I will be running around in front of him for an hour each week.
Prepared for pickup.
House is pleasant and serene - check I will be pleasant and serene - check I will be prepared to praise, make eye contact, and try really hard to smile sincerely - check Oh ...and must look smoking hot. - Sorta check
You're in NorCal so it's a bit cooler but there's nothing quite like workout wear to turn a man's head. Leggings and fun tops? Come on! You got this!!!! Check out Fabletics. I can't wait to hear how it goes.
About pick up...
I don't know if you or H is a wine drinker but I've peaked H's interest more than once by answering the door looking and smelling amazing, house beautiful, music on, a book draped over the arm of the couch with a fresh glass of wine sitting there. He definitely noticed and asked, "ooh, what're you drinking there?"
I KNOW our house is calmer and prettier than his pad and I do everything I can to make it as inviting as I can when he stops by.
It has been hot here which means the air is on a lot but at night I open as many windows as possible and air the house out so it smells fresh (not that it doesn't but I'm super conscious of a 'closed-up-house' smell).
Who knows if it works but it makes me feel calmer and that has to be somethin' right?
Alas- pick up will happen at early morning (and I. am. not. a. morning. person.), so I will have to replace wine with coffee...and maybe some baked goods.
I have no idea what our house is like versus where he is living (as I have never seen it) - but I certainly love it and have been giving it a lot of attention the last couple of weeks.
The goal is that each week the environment looks better and that I look a little better!
Feeling pensive this morning. Husband came to house at 6:15 to get kids ready for school and I left for work. I'm working on the detachment. I never feel any urge to text, email or otherwise communicate - but I can't deny that when he walked in this morning my heart swelled from habit. When I look at his face, I think how I know every nook and cranny of it and yet he is suddenly such a stranger now, and I realize I have a long ways to go, and of course a loud steady refrain of "How did we get here?" runs through my head.
He did his best to avoid any eye contact with me - he was REALLY concentrating on petting the dogs. At least he didn't seem hostile (more sheepishness). I did my best to smile - but I couldn't find an opportunity to work in any words of affirmation, so really just a mediocre interaction (but I'll take the "no hostility" right now).
The kids were waking up as I left - and they were SO overjoyed to see him. It really seems unfathomable that this is happening to them. You know the old trope about how the wife starts ignoring the husband as soon as the kids are born, and gives them all of her love and attention? In our house, I always felt that H took that role, but now of course, I can't help but wonder. Does he really ache for them right now, or does he possibly enjoy the lessened responsibility and greatly increased free time? Not sure that it matters, but just more evidence of how I really don't know him now.
I'm no expert (only at obscure 80s music and pop culture garbage), however if your h is in MLC, it is very possible that he feels a great relief if not having the daily responsibilities. I don't mean he doesn't miss things about the family- just that he may very well be relieved to escape the daily grind. Prior to BD, my h said it was like that movie "Groundhog Day" in our house and weekends were like prison. I thought he was being funny because there is a certain element of truth when you have kids. It's not skydiving naked while doing shots of Patron, you know?
One snippet of advice. Don't try to force conversation. Yes, the little eye contact is related to guilt-that's on him. You can't fix that.
Do things that make you feel good, laugh, look good and enjoy the kids. Focus on you. It gets better!
3 kids BD 12/15/13 (IDKIILY. ) Rope dropped Cirque du Soleil style D final 9-9-14 "Some people are born on 3rd base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." Barry Switzer
I think I should probably do some more reading about MLC. I've done some internet searching, but maybe I should look into something more substantial.
I'm sure everyone in MLC is different (since they are individuals), but I wonder if there is also some additional nuance. For example, my husband is at the lower end of the age range and our children are younger (in no way can he make the MLC argument that he has been working his whole life for other people and now deserves to live for himself). Anyone with an MLC spouse have a book that really spoke to them?
There is a great deal of info on the web. I'll be honest-I'm not sure calling it that makes anything different. My m was not perfect prior to BD and there were things I needed to work on for me. However, something's became a little clearer post BD for what xh is going through. As best one can understand it.
Just remember this, your h's feelings are his. While some of the things he says may be preposterous, HE believes them if only for the moment he says them. My xh's biggest thing was that his entire life changed when he had kids. He believed mine did not. That's ludicrous to tell someone who has had 3 csections, worked full time, etc. However, (and I apologize if you don't believe your h is going thru MLC-may have gotten him confused with someone else) it IS how they feel and think. Can't rationalize with an irrational person.
Last edited by Georgiabelle; 09/10/1403:40 PM.
3 kids BD 12/15/13 (IDKIILY. ) Rope dropped Cirque du Soleil style D final 9-9-14 "Some people are born on 3rd base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." Barry Switzer
Yesterday, H returned the girls at an event where D6 was getting her soccer pictures taken (as Coach, I was part of this as well)- it was probably the longest H and I have been together since BD (He had to watch D3 while we were busy.
THE BAD:
Well, it was awkward of course.
H didn't really follow through what we had agreed on ahead of time and didn't have D6 in her uniform ready to go, which irritated me.
As we were leaving and he was walking to his truck, he was immediately buried in his phone, and despite my efforts at detachment, I immediately assumed he was communicating with OW (who as far as I know is his only real friend right now).
The usual lack of eye contact and frequent use of his "cop voice" when speaking to me
THE GOOD:
I didn't get upset about the uniform snafu. I just smiled and dealt with and in fact was able to remain upbeat and positive throughout.
We actually had a brief conversation about D3 and how she is coming out of her terrible twos.
I'll take it as a win that there was no overt hostility, and as he left H mumbled "let me know what you need".
I'm finally letting go over all the irritation I feel about him creating a second "home" for the girls. The reality is that we ARE separated and its appropriate to do this.
Honestly, I'm glad that's over with for the week. The local school board has a vacancy and I'm going to look into it as a GAL activity. Also joined the church choir as both GAL and something to do with my Mom. The median age at our church must be about 75, and the choir director was so tickled to have some pipes that are under seventy years old!
So last night I had a pretty intense dream about H - in which he moved away and we had a lengthy discussion about his affairs (which we have not had in real life - still have no idea who OW is).
In the dream I said "Are you sure there's only two? Just this one and the girl from Iowa?" and H replied "Well, and the circus clown".
So last night I had a pretty intense dream about H - in which he moved away and we had a lengthy discussion about his affairs (which we have not had in real life - still have no idea who OW is).
In the dream I said "Are you sure there's only two? Just this one and the girl from Iowa?" and H replied "Well, and the circus clown".
And then I woke up.....
Ha! We are all living in a circus right now. But I like the phrase "not my circus, not my monkeys." I'm trying to stay out of H's circus and let him deal with his own monkeys!
It's that time of the week again.....H came over to get the girls ready for school this morning. I didn't do the "friendly" as well as I should have. I think I managed "pleasant" but no further. It didn't help that I woke up at 4:00 am cycling through "I can't believe this is actually happening" and "I can't believe H did all of this", etc. I will have to be more prepared next week to be in a positive frame of mind. I made eye contact and my tone was ok - but I wasn't super smiley.
On the plus side, I had to come back into the house after I left because I forgot my work badge and H was still petting the dogs. This may not sound like much - but since he dropped the bomb, H has done everything possible to detach from our household - he immediately "returned" keys, gate openers,etc, he does everything possible to see the girls AWAY from the house, and whisks them away ASAP whenever he has them, and he has barely shown any attention to what used to be beloved family pets (except when he pets them to avoid making eye contact with me). So, I know its just a tiny positive, but the fact that he was willing to show a little more affection to the pooches (who have been starving for it) pleases me.
Won't see him again until he drops the girls off at D6's soccer practice tomorrow. He will watch D3 while I coach. I will be interested to see if he actually watches any of the practice or if he just hides with D3 on the playground.
I really need to figure out a way to do some "thought stopping" in the middle of the night. I seem to be in a continuous loop where I wake up at 2 or 3 in the morning, and my mind goes straight to negative thoughts about H (which is weird for me- because pre-BD, if I woke up at that time I would have been incredibly groggy and incapable of coherent thought). During the day, I don't seem to find it so difficult to focus on me, and all the positive changes I need to make instead - but there's something about the wee hours of the morning that brings out all the dark thoughts.
Today as I stared at the "2:25 am" on the clock, I kept thinking:
Does he really have any idea about the pain he is causing to me and the kids? When I was a kid, my worst nightmare was that my parents would divorce - and now we are doing that to our two daughters who are so incredibly precious to us. Will I ever be able to trust anyone again? It's hard to imagine, when the person I trusted most, admitted to two affairs, left me via note and basically went into hiding all within 24 hours. Blah, Blah, Blah.... It seems impossible that any human being could do this if they had any conception of the pain they are causing... Blah, Blah Blah.
Then in the morning I get up, start my day and realize that of course he doesn't realize any of this, there is abundant evidence that he is not remotely rational right now.
I lost of few posts on my threads where I was given excellent advice regarding my sleeping problems. Thanks again to all who helped! I really made some improvements with the zzzzzs over the weekend.
Today I need to go back to "Detachment 101". This morning I saw that H had deposited his monthly payment much earlier than usual and immediately started to try and read into such a mundane thing. "He's trying to be nice! He's trying to initiate some contact!" Reality check - it was probably a slow morning on patrol, and he just plain got it done early.
Then I got called by D3s daycare for the 2nd time in a week because she was running a fever. I texted him as a courtesy to let him know and also to say I was taking her to the dr. He responded "ok". I immediately started to fume, thinking it was unbelievable he couldn't even say he hoped she was ok or show a little appreciation for the fact that its always me who leaves my job to take care of these things, etc. Just when I had worked myself into a mini-fury, he texted again, offering to watch D6 this evening if it would help out.
I guess sometimes I think I'm doing a good job on detachment because I never feel any urge to text, call or email him. Clearly these minor interactions, and my out-of-scope reactions to them indicate otherwise. I know its early on and I'm human, I'll just take it as a win that I didn't lash out during the texting incident (although truthfully, lashing out really isn't my style).
D3 just had a secondary ear infection from the crud she had two weeks ago. Didn't take H up on his offer because we already had a big evening planned with grandparents. I'm out of town all day tomorrow because the program that I work on was awarded top performer in the state and I get to go pick up the award in LA. Glad career is at least still moving along.
So yesterday while I was out of town for work, I actually got a text from H asking how D3 was. I was bowled over, since in the last month he has only initiated contact to briefly confim logistical stuff around kid pickup and drop off. I was so pleased and then it hit me that I'm actually delighted that H sent a three word text to check on the health of his own child- wow- my bar has gotten pretty low. How sad is that?
On a slightly humorous note.... like many on this board, my thoughts occasionally turn to what life would be like if we can't fix this and end up divorced. And its been absolutely impossible for me to envision myself in another relationship, or being with another man, that part of me just feels dead right now. I live about 10 miles away from the big wildfire in California. Monday morning I had to stop at the grocery store and there were hundreds of firefighters milling around in the parking lot which is being used as a staging area, and all of the sudden I didn't feel so dead inside anymore..........
Hold the 2X4s please - I know we are supposed to be working on ourselves (and I am fully appreciate the wisdom of that and am doing my best), I've just been feeling reflective about this recently (since I've pieced some details together)and I feel the need to share. Oh- and I'm sure this will be long and boring - feel free to move on to another thread!
My H was never a ladies man. On our first date, he spent the entire movie nervously wiping sweat from his palms onto his pant legs. I had to make all the first moves and he let out a massive sigh of relief when we finally kissed and then sweetly asked if he could please hold my hand. So what's happened since then, to turn him into a guy who leaves his wife and young kids for the sake of a 2 week old affair?
We went through a rough patch when our youngest was a baby. For some reason she always cried when he held her, and she was a vigorous and needy nurser. So, I ended up with a disproportionate amount of baby care, and honestly, I think H felt rejected. At the time, I just felt gross... exhausted, grumpy and physically just gross. I do remember telling my husband that if he wanted to have sex, he should just tell me and I would do so, but I didn't feel remotely sexy at that point in time. I know now that this really hurt his feelings. About a month later, we made the decision to make a long discussed move to live closer to my family in California. My husband came up with the plan, which was to cash in some investments- I would move out immediately and he would follow once the house sold (I now have a dark suspicion he did this to get me out of the way). He was by himself in Iowa from mid July 2012 to Thanksgiving of that year and during that time he started an affair with a parole officer he worked with(he's a cop). She had been putting her Dr. husband through med school, and after graduation he told her he was in love with someone else and wanted a divorce. So, while I'm not excusing their behavior, I do get that they were both vulnerable and needy.
After my husband joined us- he was a different person. I know that he continued in contact with his AP (he actually had a PO box set up for his private mail - and told me he was concerned with the security of our community style mail box). Now that I've read up on how people handle the guilt of an affair, it's like reading a checklist where every box is marked: Blaming the spouse (me), hostility, irritability, finding fault with everything I said. I knew something was wrong, but I thought it had to do with the move itself (he loved his job in Iowa). But he did seem to be getting better and really seemed cheerful (and passionate) around the holidays.
Then, in January of this year, I found a love note from her in his truck. It didn't actually scream "affair" (it was written in different color inks and really seemed kind of adolescent) but it was strange enough that I asked him about it. He, of course was adamant that it was just from his good friend, and "it wasn't like that" and he was very convincing. Coincidentally, D3 had pneumonia and I ended up taking her to the hospital that night, so in all the hustle and bustle, I actually didn't think about it again until much later. Now when I look back, I realize that after that he seemed to slide into being blue again.
Between then and July, we had ups and downs but definitely more downs than ups. He didn't like the agency he worked for, and kept being disappointed every time he tried to get on somewhere else. Then on July 22nd, he got into a motorcycle accident, confessed he had been leaving another woman's house, had been in the relationship for 2 weeks, said he wanted a divorce (via note) and just left, all in one day. I know nothing at all about this current OW. He works 45 minutes away, so its not like anyone I know would see them together. When he told me, I did ask if he worked with her and he said no - but who knows if he is telling the truth.
So here we are. When I look back at all of this, I feel a little overwhelmed because I think my H has been brewing in a toxic stew of guilt, anxiety and depression for over two years. I know he's been blaming me and vilifying me (I can feel that). I know that an affair is a potent treatment for depression and he's right in the middle of that. I don't know why he felt he had to leave when he did. Did the accident make him realize how miserable he was? Is he just super smitten with the latest OW? When I found the note from the first one, he wanted to keep his family together enough to lie about it, what changed now? Does he think that he just can't live without affairs? Who knows. I doubt my husband is self aware to really know right now. Truthfully, it probably doesn't matter to how I need to approach the situation. But it's easy to brood and reflect.
My husband became a cop after we married. It gave him a lot of new confidence, and now of course he is the proverbial "man in uniform" and women notice him a lot more. Is some of this just that he has opportunities that he didn't before?
I'm pretty sure my husband's use of porn has soared during this period as well. After he left, I cam across a stash of DVDs and our internet usage plummeted. The first week after he left, my IC asked me if this was one of his problems and I said nooooooooo..... but I'm not so sure anymore.
Finally, I should say, that I'm not stupid. I did in fact suspect infidelity multiple times in the last 2 years. Each time, I have completely talked myself out of it by saying "No way! It's H! He would never do that". Not only did I talk myself out of it, but I actually felt guilty for thinking such a thing of him. What a chump. I am embarrassed to look back now and realize that I must have been in complete denial. For a smart, confident woman, I really let this situation get away from me.
Small bit of advice needed please. So - before he left so dramatically, my husband was in the middle of building a treehouse for D6. Three days before the BD he bought a bunch of expensive lumber for this project and its been sitting in the garage ever since. I've studied the plans and I'm pretty sure I could finish it without cutting off an apendage. I was going to ask H to finish it, since obiovusly D6 has been asking. The problem is I really have no idea what is going through H's head, but I'm pretty sure that house repsponsibilities may have been at least a small piece of the pressure puzzle that contributed to the snap. When we first got together, H painted himself as a handy guy around the house, but truth be told, while he is willing to work hard he really doesn't know what he is doing on a lot of projects (with predictable mediocre results). So I feel a little stuck - put pressure on him to finish it (I did bring it up in our first meeting after BD and he has done nothing since)- possibly emasculate him by doing it myself- or disappoint D6 (which does not really feel like an option)
You could tell him you know he's got a lot going on and that it's important to D6, so if he doesn't feel like he can get it done by x date, you'd like to take over the project to free him up for his other concerns. Then just leave it and see what happens. If the date passes and you do it then his reaction is his responsibility.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
H returned girls last night- here endeth our interactions for the week. We've worked our way up from the "hot potato" drop off to sort of a awkward civility. I guess that's sort of progress. Yesterday he actually brought the empty garbage can up from the street (our driveway is 1/2 mile long and sice he left with the truck this has been a major pain for me), which is the closest thing he has done to helping out with the house since he left, so I'll take that as a teeny, tiny win.
He changes schedules beginning in October and we will have to talk about how this will change his visitation schedule. I am hoping he will initiate this, but he is generally so passive that he tries to just sits back and wait for me to tell him when he is "allowed" to have have the girls (which is how he characterizes it- despite me repeatedly telling him otherwise). I told my IC and DB coach that I feel like he has always wanted me to drive the bus and now he's mad about where I took us.
I guess I'll bring up the stuff about the treehouse (see above) next week - we're heading into glorious weather and I want this for D6.
So, I've not had a good weekend with the GAL and 180s. D3 and I have had a cold that just won't go away and on Friday D6 woke up with the sniffles as well. She wasn't that sick, but I decided to call in and let both girls stay home from school as well. Spent most of Friday snuggling in bed with the girls, enjoying the rainy weather, watching kid movies and cooking grilled cheese sandwiches and chicken noodle soup. Also giving quality attention to the dogs and cats.
Coached D6 at soccer today but other than that have really been pretty lazy. Need to get back on my projects of decluttering the house, the usual weekend housework and continuing the good progress I have made with the exercise. I wish I knew other areas to 180 but for now this is the best I've got - unfortunately it makes me feel like I have to be in constant "overachiever" mode, which is exhausting.
I shook off my weekend slump and managed to tackle some house projects yesterday. One of the items that needed to get done was cleaning the chimney. I had originally planned on asking H to do it - but much like the treehouse issue (see above), I have some concerns that the house maintenance is one of the things he is running from. So I watched a "how to clean your chimney" youtube video, climbed up on the roof and got it done. I am now making empowered grunting noises.
Goal for this week is working on workplace GAL. I have an excellent quality of life job - but if we end up divorced - I'm going to have to up my income - so time to start figuring out next steps. A work at home job is a real possibility with my current employer -would be great for the kids - but not sure that cutting myself off from more face to face human interaction is a good idea at this point
raliced, I keep a list of things to get accomplished. Column A and B. Column B contains easy stuff. I put those off for a while. saving them for when I am exhausted and unmotivated.
Since those items are on the list a while, they are more gratifying. Since they are easy tasks, they dont require as much effort!!
M42 W40 T17 M15 S13 S11 BD 7-14 A discovered 7-14 WAW moved out 10-3-14 D final 2-23-15
Look at you, Raliced! I hope you and the kids are feeling better. It's nice that you were able to spend some quality time snuggling with the kids and the fur babies.
I can relate to the unfinished projects. While it is mind reading, it is certainly possible your h is running from house responsibilities. So you don't want to put any pressure on him. My xh was allegedly going to redo the floors in the BRs for 5 years. I finally just had someone come do them and post BD he said that I had "doubted" he was going to do them and that me hiring someone hurt him. Honestly, some of what they say is just ridiculous. If you need to get something done, I don't think it's emasculating-especially if it's a hazard or something that really needs attention. You must take care of you and your girls.
3 kids BD 12/15/13 (IDKIILY. ) Rope dropped Cirque du Soleil style D final 9-9-14 "Some people are born on 3rd base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." Barry Switzer
My H has been just the opposite. Over the summer he bought new patio furniture and a couple new pieces of artwork. Recently, we finished remodeling a bathroom -- a total gut. His dream is to replace the flooring in about half our house. Some is carpet, some is "Cuban tile" which is a HUGE pain to remove. Whether it's a good thing or not, we haven't found the right solution to install (has to do with matching existing porcelain tile). All this while looking for a different place to move into. Boggles my mind.
I'm sorry you are in this sitch, however consider the help/ completed projects a gift!!!
3 kids BD 12/15/13 (IDKIILY. ) Rope dropped Cirque du Soleil style D final 9-9-14 "Some people are born on 3rd base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." Barry Switzer
I'm sorry you are in this sitch, however consider the help/ completed projects a gift!!!
At first I was really concerned that H was fixing up the house to sell. But after I talked to two Ls, I realized that I don't necessarily have to sell, so yes, all the remodeling is all a bonus. Especially since we ended up painting the bathroom the color I wanted! ;-)
This morning H came to the house to get kids ready for school, one of our two interactions for the week. I asked him if he had thought about when he would like the kids with his new work schedule, and as predicted he mumbled "whatever you think". It's amazing to me that someone so passive actually took the step to move out of the house.
I gave him some suggestions/options and told him to let me know.
It's amazing to me that someone so passive actually took the step to move out of the house.
I gave him some suggestions/options and told him to let me know.
Amazing, isn't it? My H is by no means a passive guy. He's very outgoing, a successful businessman, community leader, and was certainly never passive in our M. But it seems like I'm doing all the work around his moving out. Writing the S agreement, coming up with the words to tell the kids, suggesting a reasonable parenting schedule. He just never thinks about those things. He thinks about whether the pool is closed in the condo building he wants to rent (did I mention we have a pool at our house?) but not how his leaving is going to affect our kids or what steps we need to take for their welfare. I understand that the kids have been largely my role until now, but if he wants to move out, then he needs to step up.
I know this has been covered on other threads - but I wonder if having to tell the kids (whenever that happens), and making him participate in that conversation, will jolt him a bit. I suspect he thinks I'll just handle that while he stands by mutely.
I also told him that I would participate in mediation instead of an adversarial lawyer v lawyer, but I'm not going to do any of the work for him. And it should be very clear, that "we" are not divorcing, he is divorcing me. I really can't see him doing that, but of course I couldn't see him having affairs or leaving either.
Telling our daughter didn't seem to jolt my H much. He stood firmly. Surprisingly so. I was the one who was quiet for no other reason than I couldn't get words out without crying. He saw that and controlled the convo.
If we get a divorce I also want it noted that "we" are not divorcing. I'm not sure if it matters legally though. I wouldn't lift a single finger to help with the divorce. It's not a mutual decision at all and I'm not going to help in any way. If it comes to that in my sitch, I am sure I'll be accused of "dragging my feet" but if he wants it, he can do it.
raliced, If there is ANY chance at all of avoiding the L vs L traditional divorce do it. In Ohio, there are 2 routes. D and dissolution. With D the court divides assets and sets parenting schedule and CS. With dissolution the S's divide assets, sets parenting schedule, and CS. As an example, in my sitch I would have had the boys every other weekend and 2 wednesdays a month in a D. With a dissolution I get them 3 days on, 3 days off, 4 days on 4 days off. Support in a D would have been $800, in the dissolution it will be $200. Plus there are no hearings, testimonies, or invasive questions to the kids from childrens services. traditional D is adversarial by nature. Dissolution is cooperative by nature.
M42 W40 T17 M15 S13 S11 BD 7-14 A discovered 7-14 WAW moved out 10-3-14 D final 2-23-15
I also will not lift a finger to help. I did my homework real quick regarding assets and support and visitation. When she finally brought it all up I put the talk off a week. She brought it up again and I was prepared. We split things up pretty fast. We agreed immediately on almost everything. Cooperating on the remaining issues forced us to interact as adults and get along. Once she set the date with the attorney I went along and we laid it all out in front of him. I cautiously refused to pay any of the bill. I would have quickly backed down on that one if she would have started leaning towards D.
M42 W40 T17 M15 S13 S11 BD 7-14 A discovered 7-14 WAW moved out 10-3-14 D final 2-23-15
We don't have dissolution in CA - but I'm not particularly concerned about an adversarial divorce. I believe that we should be able to work out the particulars between ourselves and then hand that agreement to a mediator. I'm just saying, I'm not going to do the legwork of finding a mediator, making appts, etc. And I know its a little thing - but he should have to pay for all the costs of actually divorcing (if we get to that point- still thinking positive).
Our finances are pretty simple - and he has such a complicated schedule that changes so frequently that I don't think it could even be codified in an agreement - we would just have to set a goal of a certain amount of time.
There might be one or two sticky points (he cashed out a retirement plan that I am entitled to 50% of) but I'm sure we can work something out around that.
Of course - there is an OW involved and lots of people keep telling me that if she gets involved he might not be so agreeable....
If we get a divorce I also want it noted that "we" are not divorcing. I'm not sure if it matters legally though. I wouldn't lift a single finger to help with the divorce. It's not a mutual decision at all and I'm not going to help in any way. If it comes to that in my sitch, I am sure I'll be accused of "dragging my feet" but if he wants it, he can do it.
Agree. The only way I will file is if it becomes a financial necessity. Legally, in my state it makes no difference who files or why.
I don't think not filing will help us R in any way, to me it's just the principle of the thing. I want my kids to know that I didn't want it, and did nothing to promote it.
I am brand new as well so I don't have much advice to offer other than to say I am sorry that you are going through this! I have two daughters as well and just found out that there is another woman in my husband's life. I feel for you as it is very overwhelming with young children in the mix.
