labug-- You are so so right. The river will flow how it flows. The best we can do is keep our eyes wide open for the opportunities that come by, and try to catch them when they do. This summer, I am doing some really exciting work out of town for pretty much the first time ever. I'm super super super excited. The opportunity appeared, it felt like the right time, and I jumped at it.
It's kind of funny-- I am not really religious, but I do think that the universe speaks to us sometimes. Letting go of control means that you will hear the universe when it does reach out.
I find it interesting that you talk about yourself and your marriage as separate entities. Why would that be? To me, a marriage is the relationship where you get to be your truest self. This is why DBing is about working on yourself. So what is ok for you should be ok for the marriage. The only open question then is whether your H is ready to be ok as well. The marriage isn't its own thing. It's the space you create for both of you to live without your masks.
I have some thoughts-- There were times in my M when I did feel like my truest self-- completely safe and able to be totally vulnerable. He saw the dark, scary side of me when I had a major panic/anxiety attack, and held me tight, said he'd always be by my side, etc. Before I became pregnant, he told me he was worried I would have PPD. I said don't worry: you'll be on the lookout for it, and we'll deal with it if or when it comes. But we didn't. I did start to feel like a separate entity-- that we weren't on the same team. I felt like he went through the motions of supporting me financially, logistically... but not emotionally. When I asked him to think about having another baby, he refused. He said that our D3 had nearly torn us apart, and he couldn't go through that again. It was a completely unilateral decision, and he said he had the right to make that decision. Essentially, he felt that his "no" vote would trump my "yes" vote. There was no mention of going to a MC to help us work through that.
Honestly, it will take a lot for me to get past that. Maybe I'm just stuck and being overly dramatic, but i actually don't know if I could move forward with him unless that was addressed. (I don't mean that he would agree to have another baby-- I would put the chances of that at 0.01%, even if he did want to stay married--but at least to discuss it, with someone to help us).
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I guess my question meant, given who your H is and who you are becoming, what would your life be like in a restored marriage? What would the overall feel or atmosphere be? What sorts of things would you do together, and how frequently? What would you be like apart? what would you like to do to support him, and what would it feel like to be your strong self within the marriage? How would his support of you in the new marriage be different from what you described above, given the changes you've made? What might he be like, and would you like that?
this is a great exercise to think about. I think I would certainly be more cognizant of HIS emotional state, and not take his anxiety or stress personally. I was too obsessed with my own anxiety and self-loathing that I took everything he said so personally, and often (always?) escalated things. I would be able to remember my own worth, and would not be constantly looking to him for validation.
I would also make sure to continue to carve out time for myself, and for nurturing friendships and interests outside the marriage. We would do more things apart, but also more quality things together. I would be more action-oriented, instead of waiting for him to take charge all the time. I would be more direct instead of expecting him to read my mind, and then resenting him when I don't. I would try my very best to speak his love language. I would step away if I felt he was pushing my buttons and I was losing my cool. We would take advantage of the ease of having just one 4 yo child to leave with grandparents, and spend more time away together.
Your ideal marriage sounds a lot like my ideal marriage.
My H had said pretty clearly that he was happy with two kids and I was ready to go along with that, but then I fell pregnant with #3... and he and I both know how that happened. When we had our big talk the day after BD#1, he asked me if I had done that on purpose. I hadn't, truly. I'd told him at the time that I hadn't. I told him again that I hadn't. (my 2nd child was only a year old at the time I got pregnant with #3, it was one of those things that fell through the cracks...) I still honestly don't know if he truly believes me. Should my yes vote have counted more than his no vote? No. But it's one of those unresolvable problems that comprises 60% of marital conflicts. Would we trade S6 for anything in the world? Absolutely not. He's a joy and a blessing, especially to his big brother. But there you go. Somebody ended up unhappy and failed to deal with it constructively. Of course H adores S6 too. But that little thing nags at the back of his mind.
Yes, I think what makes me stand is that I also remember being my truest self with him. One of the things that hurt the worst was thinking he didn't like my truest self, but I've come to realize, replaying some of the things he said in the last year, that he had stopped seeing me at all and was just thinking of me as somebody for whom I can find no evidence of having been (for example, he called me a hoarder when I just two years ago went through a herculean effort of divesting us of literally half our stuff). And of course the further apart we drifted the less like my truest self I was.
Well, as you say, the river will flow and we must flow with it.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
Goshdarnitall, I could have written those last three paragraphs word for word, Claire. I feel you on the anxiety - it starts to take over very easily, and it's so easy to get wrapped up in it. One of my H.'s issues with me was that he said that he's felt like my therapist and assistant because of it and like I haven't focused on his emotional needs as a result. I can certainly see how he'd feel that way, and I'd love to be able to go back and work on pretty much everything you've mentioned.
In general, I think this is a really good exercise (it's one I've been working through recently too). You seem to have a clear sense of how you'd like things to look, which is good. One thing I'd suggest is considering how some of your points about talking about a baby would fit into your vision of how your life would be. It seems like you'd be more okay with not having another baby IF you were able to talk about the idea and work through it, rather than it being a unilateral decision. What do you think this might tell you about things like how communication and decision making would look if you were working things out?
M - 34 H - 36 Together 10 years Married 4 years BD - March, 2014
I'm spinning a bit today, guys. Could use some feedback.
H and I are meeting tonight to discuss childcare plans for next year. He also wants to discuss the parenting plan our mediator drafted.
One sticking point during mediation has been that he doesn't think we need to "address all the minutiae". We can just agree to decide things respectfully as they come up.
But everyone I've talked to (even a friend who is still actually friends with her ex) has told me that we need to have a default plan in place, just in case we disagree on something.
I'm terrified that I'm going to backslide so much and lose my cool. We've never been able to solve conflicts very well, and we certainly haven't done any work on that. I'm scared I will lose it and say something like, "Is this what you really want?? Why? How could you just up and walk away on me and never look back?"
Despite all the work I'm doing to become a healthier, happier person, and change the things about me that were obstacles in our M, he still shows zero interest in that.
I'm debating whether to just press him on it, even though I'm guessing that would push him to say he's ready for D. Because if he really truly believes, after 10 months, that there is still no chance, then I think it's time for me to drop the rope.
Can't flesh these thoughts out more right now-- babysitter is on vacation so I am with D3 all day, and we are headed to the playground.
Clearly I'm not detached because I have such a knot in my stomach right now. I hate this so much. I hate him for being so weak and stubborn. I'd be willing to work so hard to help us have a happy life together. And he thinks so little of me that he would rather throw it all away.
Also had another thought-- it seems like there is a bit of a pattern-- there seem to be a few men on the boards who have been DBing consistently... and have had success with their WAW's warming up or even expressing interest in reconciling.
How many WAH's come back? Do any vets have any informal observations about that?
Does this say something about how gender plays a role in the way we approach relationships? I wonder.
I made an appointment to speak with a coach... and part of me is wondering if I will leave those sessions with the courage to finally drop the rope for good.
