KGirl - 7 months later...

[KGirl]

Yay, the boards are back!

After I got back from the conference my H detachment suffered in a major way for a number of reasons. I wish I could put a reset button and just delete everything that has happened that I know but it's not really that easy (can't unring the bell, right?)

This past weekend was a charity walk that I've participated in with H's family since they've started doing it. One of the family members suffers from the disease the walk is for. Lots of post from facebook from other relatives of pictures with H. What got me down, moreso than the fact that I wasn't participating this year, was that I just didn't find him attractive at all. His hair is grown out (whether intentional or not, don't know) and it is pretty gross. He had new shoes, new clothes, which made me wonder what else is "new" in his life. Several friends have independently said that H has become a "douchebag" over the past few weeks/months. He posts on social media about things like Floyd Mayweather and how great he is (our mutual friends that are now "my" friends and myself are anti-boxing), posts selfies of himself in Floyd Mayweather t-shirts, posts politically conservative things (he was moderate "before" all this) has gross hair, and in general doesn't have good social skills (asking friends that want nothing to do with him if they want to hang out or if he can visit them). My mom and his mom actually work at the same place, and my mom said something about their charity walk. His mom asked how she knew about that, and my mom replied she saw pics on H's facebook. W/in 24 hours he defriended her. ??? It's not as if we couldn't see his facebook from other sources (like.. my sister that is still friends with him?) It seems antagonistic for no reason. And I'm even a little embarassed by him.

Why do I recount all this? None of these changes are attractive or draw me back to him. And I am scared that this is him becoming who he really is or was meant to be, rather than a phase. And I don't want to use the excuse that "people change" for divorcing someone... but if we're already S, and his changes are just completely uninteresting/the opposite of what attracted me to him... then what?

This was easier when I didn't know anything about him. Maybe I need to set up some sort of boundary with friends and family to not share things about him with me. On the other hand, if I'm completely in the dark and he later wants to R, would I be OK with having been in the dark about what he did during the S?

[SunnyB]

KGirl, do you want to know things that might make it harder to reconcile later? I have chosen not to ask a single question about OW. I don't need to pollute my brain with the likes of her, and every detail I know is something I would have to forgive should H and I reconcile. I choose not to go there. Do you really want to know what he's up to? Yes is an ok answer, just be aware there's a downside to it.

[KGirl]

rppfl, this is a tough question. On the one hand there may be things that would be better unknown. But I also think there are some questions that I would need answered or I would assume the worst and always wonder, or things that are important for my own personal health (like... did he sleep with someone and what precautions did he take?) Then again, would I really believe what he said (and then what do you do.. make them take an STD test even if they said they hadn't slept with anyone??) I just really don't know. At this time I think I'd prefer to know if anything has happened involving another girl (dating, physical, etc.) just because I won't be able to stop wondering and that may be a deal breaker for me, but I don't really need to know his other ridiculous things (selfies he posts in ridiculous clothes, things he says to friends, etc.) I'm not sure I could actually forgive any sort of PA with an OW, because we started dating in high school and our history is only with each other... so an OW coming into the picture when we were each other's only partners in that sense is huge to me. Maybe I'm too naive.. *shrug*

[SunnyB]

KGirl I understand you. I am a lot older, have been married a lot ionger and have three kids. I am willing to put up with things you probably shouldn't and not knowing helps me do that.

[Card29]

KGirl, you are DEFINITELY not naive. That is exactly how you should feel, IMO. You married him with the mutual faith that you would be the only person you would each share intimacy with until death. You seem strong to be where you are, and to move out. I know people who have been strung along for years while clinging to whatever scraps of affection their unfaithful spouse would give them. They were miserable hoping for those scraps to turn into a fulfilling marriage. And after all of it, the cheater ended up finally leaving them with nothing. It was so brave of you to leave and pursue DB principles It is the best thing you could possibly do for YOU and for your M.

As far as what information to require from your WAH if he does attempt to reconcile, I would defer to vets, but it seems like it's up to you. One thing you might want to consider is your long term capacity for forgiveness and forgetting: What questions are you capable of letting go (REALLY letting go- never thinking of again, and if you did think about it, the question wouldn't really bother you 5+ years down the road) and what questions do you think would just fester inside of you permanently? If you let something stick inside of you for a long time, you are bound for more rocky roads in the future. If your WAH does eventually whole-heartedly pursue reconciliation, then he will need to be very patient in waiting for you to have your questions answered and for you to believe the answers. But I wouldn't ponder those questions too much at this stage - they are the opposite of detachment!

FYI- I think setting a boundary with your friends and family giving you updates on him is a GREAT idea if those things bother you. Take care of yourself and work on the only thing you can work on in your M: YOU. How are 180's going?

[SunnyB]

.....things that are important for my own personal health (like... did he sleep with someone and what precautions did he take?) Then again, would I really believe what he said (and then what do you do.. make them take an STD test even if they said they hadn't slept with anyone??)

If you actually get to that point, then yes, you do. I have had an STD test myself recently. (All clear, thank goodness.) And if H were ever pursuing me hard enough for me to consider R, then he'd be willing to take one himself. Protect yourself first.

[labug]

Fact is people do change, or they've put on a mask for reasons of their own and then that mask starts to slip or they just decide to take it off.

I'm certainly not the person I was at 21. Many things are the same but I've changed a lot, mostly for the better I like to think.

I think recognizing that he's changed in ways that aren't attractive to you is a positive.

[KGirl]

labug - yes, since we started dating at 17, we've certainly been through some key time periods (ending high school, college, starting first jobs, etc.) that result in a lot of changes. I guess I had thought that since we made it through a lot of those big milestones and still gravitated towards each other, that it meant we could get through anything... maybe not, though. The rest is still unwritten, to quote Natasha Bedingfield I feel like I've put a lot of work into trying to change in positive, mature ways, and when I see/hear about what he is doing it seems he is regressing in many ways, and it is dissappointing. He has said things along the lines of living under such a mask for many years and not being able to be really "him" when he's been with me, hence why I fear he is discovering himself now and this is the REAL him. And I don't like it, which is scary and sad and other things all at the same time. I had a long chat with a friend today and she made a comment about how it seems like he's been struggling for a long time, maybe as long as I've known him, about his identity and who he "is" as a person (trying to be like friends, for example, or copying their actions/attitudes). I do hope for his sake that he can figure out what his identity is and that it doesn't take him another 10+ years.

rppfl - yes, I feel like I have less of an investment in some ways in sticking around/trying to make it work. I don't feel like "standing" longer than we've actually been married. I'm young enough that I can basically start over. Many acquiantances my age are not even in a long term relationship much less married. And I don't have kids so it's not as if he will still be a part of my life in the future. I could essentially never see him again unless I happen to see him somewhere around town.

Card29 - thank you for your vote of confidence! I really did struggle with the decision to move out because it didn't fit with a lot of what's talked about on here ("stay in the house as long as possible") but given the logistics it wasn't feasible to make him leave, and my mental health and well-being was really stressed to the max continuing to live with him given how he felt about me and that he was making no effort to work with me or end the M. My biggest 180 in regards to H is effectively taking no action - letting him be, not pursuing him. In the past (and we've been through this at least two times, that I can recall anyways) when he's "left" I constantly pursued him, emailed him, begged him to reconsider, told him he was a huge jerk and no one would ever want to date him, turned around and begged some more, etc. Now I'm just letting him be. If I remove myself from the situation and he's still unhappy, I can't be the variable that makes him unhappy, right? For me personally, I've been doing a lot of self-help reading on codependency. I have a very detail-oriented, on-top-of-things personality and am trying hard to be more OK with uncertainty/leaving people to deal with their actions/letting go. It's hard but I am at least aware of it and do make an effort. I have become more of a "yes" person and rarely turn down an invite to do something, whereas before if someone invited me the day-of to do something I'd often say no even if I didn't have plans just out of principle ("Why do they think it's OK to not plan ahead?!"). I am working to be more clear with what I want and need and not expect people to mind-read or assume they'll know what I want. I'm expanding my horizons in different ways - I've taken a class through a community college, tried some new hobbies (meditative drawing, for example), gotten more of a gym routine going, and even took a trip to Las Vegas by myself. I've also taken some actions towards a life without H - I bought a car (H and I had shared a car and at first it was scary to think of doing because it was like I was admitting I wasn't coming back home), got a cat (also scary because H kept our cat and we're not sure that cat gets along with other cats - also implying I wasn't coming back). I basically decided to not wait for him to decide what to do and am acting as if I am not coming home when buying furniture and making other life plans.

Something interesting I learned from my conference last week - there are research studies that show that when boys/young men play a lot of video games, it affects a part of the brain that creates motivation and drive to work towards a goal in real life. Essentially the study concluded that video game playing can lead to a lack of motivation to work towards goals in real life, because it can be easier in some ways in the video game.. or if you're losing, you just turn it off and start over. It also mentioned that men who grow up affected by this appear completely normal and happy and undepressed.. just don't have motivation to work towards things. Couldn't help but think of H who has always been a video gamer and was definitely all about quitting the game and starting over if he was losing because he didn't want that on his record. Kinda hard to just reset a marriage though, right??

[KGirl]

What do you say when people find out you are S and ask "what happened?" or "why?" So far this has mostly happened with people that are closer to me so we set up a time to talk about it in more detail. This has come up at times w/ people at work and I always feel flustered. (I work at a very large university so there are a lot of people I know casually - for example, they'll ask how my H is or how my house is but don't know anything else yet so I need to say something, and some of the less tactful people ask follow up questions). Plus, with the holidays getting closer there is going to be some more interaction/having to tell people. I could just say "I'd rather not discuss it, thanks." I don't want to say "It just wasn't working out" because that feels not true, from my perspective. I could say "H said he didn't want to be married anymore, and wasn't interested in discussing it" which to me is the shortest version of the truth I can think of... but is it throwing him under the bus too much? I definitely don't want to say "Well, H became a huge d-bag and left me because he has a crush on a girl at work," so I at least know what NOT to say, but coming up with what I could say is hard, in one sentence or less. One of my work colleagues has a short version something like "'He cheated on me and we couldn't make it work after that" but it's harder to explain when there's not a clear cut thing that people understand right away, like "he cheated."

[labug]

That's a pretty personal question, don't you think?

You could just look at them and smile, ignore the question altogether.