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Hello again,
Seems I got locked out of last thread just when Heather asked me about talking to the lawyer. To answer Heather's question...I called yesterday as I was rushing home after my D called telling me she and mom were at my home. I could only get his paralegal and she wasn't sure about the answer. That was a bit disappointing as it seems pretty cut and dry to me! There is a D in process, the court is aware of this, I have allowed her access several times to get as much stuff as she wanted and she choose to take things that were in dispute, not "personal" stuff (she still has the closet full of her clothes that no longer fit her now that she is so thin). She was supposed to get with the L and get back to me today but I haven't heard back all day.

My D14 signed up for classes at the school near my W. Another win for her and loss for my D. She talked her out of going to a better school by telling her she would have to get up really early to go there but that isn't true. My w told me she didn't want her to go because we had an offer of help from an old friend and my W says she didn't want to owe anyone else any favors (??) which makes no sense to me!

I stayed home from work today as I didn't get any sleep last night. I just can't believe the stuff that is in the paperwork from W's lawyer! She was the one who said by splitting custody we wouldn't be locked into anything but here is all this detail about where she will go and when and with whom. It gives my D no say in where SHE may want to go or what she wants to do! I know that if she wanted to do something with her mom on a day that I have her by court order, I would readily allow her. I really don't trust her mom to do the same. Her mom tells me that she is now glad she was "forced" to do things with her father when she was a kid and thinks that I should force my D to do things she doesn't want to! Up until now she used to talk about how she HATED that she was forced to spend time with her father, how she felt so uncomfortable around him. Total 180 from the last 25 years!

My W texted me today about my D14's dog having worms. (Yuck!). She wanted to say I should wash all her bed sheets (I had already done this the day she left) and must have had 4-5 back and fourths where she was actually seemed not nasty, then of course she ended with terse, one word answers. Today was hard. I kept having thoughts about how could my W hurt so many people that love her and hope to find ANY joy from anything that came from that? How could she enjoy her new life knowing how much hurt she has caused so many? If she is able too, what kind of person does that make her? One like her father I suppose.

I feel that I am so caught in a hard place. I want what's best for my D14 and not having her mother in her life sounds wrong but at the same time I honestly don't think she is capable (my W that is) of being the kind of parent a 14 year old girl needs, at least not now. I don't want to put my D in a place where she must choose between her mother and me but from what the decree says, I just can't allow that to stand! All this and I have to start making more money again as all this has really cut into that!

So much stress. I've been so stressed for long much of it because of my W. It isn't healthy and when the D is final, I lose my insurance! I need to find some way to de stress and find some kind of peace before I go insane and have my own "crisis!

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I'm so sorry you are feeling so much stress, Matt. I'm still thinking and processing your sitch and I don't have the greatest, most perfect advice, other than to please try the best you can to detach as much as you can. All she does is cause stress and grief and it has to stop. You can't stop her, and she won't stop. So stop letting it in. Protect yourself. Don't read the texts. If you have to block them then do it. Dog worms are gross, but not an emergency. I really don't know anything, but I can tell from your posts that it is really getting beyond tolerable for you. Please keep moving forward, and taking care of yourself. Take focus off of her and texts and papers. They're already written. What's done is done and if it can't or won't change, then it just is. I hate those words, myself, but I had to hear them, too. My H does not want to be married to me. Dagger. None of this is what we wanted. I'm so sorry for you, but I can relate. I lost my husband, my best friend, my house, and now my job. Pretty soon, my son is leaving for the Army. Everything I knew to be true before, isn't now. And it stinks.

But I'm convinced there is more. There is a bigger picture and we get to find out what that is. That's exciting after the pain stops...or so I'm told. I'll let you know if I get there smile.

I feel for you, Matt. I just wanted you to know I'm reading, and thinking about you and your D14. Please sleep tonight.

Benadryl works smile.


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(((Matt)))

Ditto what she said ^^^^


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Matt - I think we all go through a crisis of our own that we are forced into because of the MLCr's crisis. We're forced to take a good, hard look at ourselves.

I was thinking about what pbpetra said about what might happen when FIL is gone. I had been thinking, too, that maybe this crisis your W is having will begin to lessen. She may feel that they finally made amends, she pleased him by doing what he suggested, and then the pressure he has been putting on her will no longer be there. She may very well 'wake up' and see the destruction that has taken place. I don't know. But, with as great an influence as FIL has been on your W -- if you take that outside influence away, things might begin to settle down a bit. But, you know her best. I may be way off, but maybe not?


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Thanks Shining and Artsy,
I appreciate your posts. I know you are right and at this point it's not the loss og my W, best friend, etc. It's the trail of destruction to so many I care about as well. My oldest D19 has had to move in with her boyfriend, my youngest has had just about every part of her life destroyed from losing her friends, her home, her mother, her pets, everything! My MIL cries every time she talks to my W on the phone (my D14 told me this when she was staying with her), I just can't help my girls financially now because my W picked when I was making the least I have in the last 20 years. Not to mention the stress from the way my W has been acting (depression/anxiety, MLC, etc.) for the last several years and I am a bit overwhelmed.

Thanks for the thoughts and help!

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I agree Livenow! I can see it when she is away from him for just a few days. For now, he is blitzing her with calls and texts many times a day. Even if he were to stop treatment and go back home 1000 miles away might have at least a calming effect on her. If and when he is out of her life and she begins to really see what damage she has done, even to herself, it may be too much for her to face. She has always been a "runner". Only time will tell if she goes so far that I won't even care if she does start to come around. That will depend on how much damage she does to the girls and myself in the meantime.

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Hey Matt just wanted to lend my support. So what helps you destress? Running, reading, a detailed hobby? No matter how much craziness is going on around you please, make time for yourself even I'd you just get up 30 min early or lock yourself away at lunch time. If you crumble under the stress you can't be strong for anyone. I learned this the hard way.

I hope you can get some good sleep tonight.


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Originally Posted By: Shining
But I'm convinced there is more. There is a bigger picture and we get to find out what that is. That's exciting after the pain stops...or so I'm told. I'll let you know if I get there smile


You will get there Shining, almost all of us will. It just takes time. Some will take more time than others, but in the end it really is up to us how long it will take.

There is more, and there is a bigger picture. Actually, we are in that picture right now!

Matt, I want you to try something for me that I believe will help you. Every night before you go to bed, I want you to write down 3 things you are grateful or thankful for, or something beautiful you noticed that day. Try to come up with new things everyday. You can even post them here if you'd like.

I did this for a couple of months without fail back in my darkest days, and it really did help me feel better about myself and my life. The better I felt the more positive things seemed to come to me.


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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Thanks FY,
I actually did this right after B-day. I also told my W who was telling me she couldn't sleep more than a few hours a night because she couldn't stop from worrying, couldn't stop the bad thoughts, that she should do the same. This way she had to think of the good, not the bad before trying to sleep. She never listened to me or didn't do it because I had suggested it. In the beginning she would refuse to do anything I suggested. I will start doing this again.

Another thing that just occurred to me. The 3 times that my W has just come into my home to take whatever she wants, she was either with her father, step mother or both! I don't think THAT is a coincidence! Again, I don't know if she would have done so if she was alone or not for sure, but I think that shows just how much affect they are having on her.

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This is so hard. You are right about everything you wrote. But it still is what's happened. The inner peace is going to be such a sweet feeling when you get there. This is all an illusion of bad things that maybe not all really bad, but they are covering up good things you will eventually see. Let the bad float away, unattached to your emotions.

Originally Posted By: Matt165
It's the trail of destruction to so many I care about as well.


That is the hard part, for sure. But, an opportunity to learn REAL forgiveness. The gift of this release is for YOU. And then teach this to your daughters by leading by example.

Quote:
My oldest D19 has had to move in with her boyfriend,


D19 had to move in with bf? Had to, or chose to? There were actually zero other options? Again, I'm not challenging the way you feel, but more often than not, there are alternatives that we ignore due to pride or (and I'm sorry to say) some people find it easier to be a victim. "Had to" are victim words. Not sure if they were your words, or D19.

Quote:
my youngest has had just about every part of her life destroyed from losing her friends, her home, her mother, her pets, everything


Destroyed is a terrible way to feel. But it doesn't have to be for long. Again, you can choose to view it differently. How do you know she won't meet more friends she likes better? There are endless possibilities of good that can come from this, they just aren't seen yet.

Quote:
My MIL cries every time she talks to my W on the phone (my D14 told me this when she was staying with her),

This fact hurts, but it doesn't have you in it. You can't control or change the fact that any person cries on the phone any more than you can control the sunrise. These are the things you have to let go, and let others deal in their way, without owning their pain. It's not your fault, nor is it your problem to fix. And having those facts communicated to you from D14 will only cause you to become upset. I learned this the hard way, too. How did D14 know about the crying? Is it something she was told and can learn to request a boundary, that others such as your W or MIL not tell her these things? Nothing good can come of this kind of info passing. Spiral to negative is all. Maybe tell D14 that you are open and willing to hear or talk about conversations, as long as they relate to D14. It clearly bothered D14 to know about the crying, and it's great that she feels open enough to tell you. Also perfect opportunity to teach D14 what she can and can not control. Feel bad, but don't stew.

Quote:
I just can't help my girls financially now because my W picked when I was making the least I have in the last 20 years. Not to mention the stress from the way my W has been acting (depression/anxiety, MLC, etc.) for the last several years and I am a bit overwhelmed


You have every right to resent her for the timing and the financial problems. You planned things one way, and she changed the rules on you. But it seems like a very "stuck" and counterproductive thing to continue to hold the anger and resentment. It's sooooo hard to do, but forgive her. Forgive it all. It will feel fake and lying to yourself the first few days, but the energy you put out is the energy you receive. Your world will change when you can truly forgive and know that her crappy decisions were awful, but you didn't cause it, you can't change it, so you have to release it from your thoughts.

I'm pointing this out in love, and with the best intentions. Which of these examples can you control or change? The facts are what they are. However, the perspective doesn't need to be as painful it feels to you, not for this long. You can choose differently. It's hard, but you can.

Perhaps you could think of this as your way of "coming out of your non-MLC tunnel", and learning the difficult life-lesson of true forgiveness. You may not want to do the work because it's hard, and facing the pain and fear of the future can be paralyzing. But what you're doing now is much, much harder. Your heart is blocked. It is only hurting you. Forgive. Good will come.


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Hi Matt,

I came by to check on how you were yesterday (evening). Glad to see that you noticed that post was locked. You explained so much(!), including the people for 'examples' your W had & the patterns she's following. Your post was beautifully explained.

re: >>> How can my W buy this crap? <<<
I often wonder about this, but when it comes to family & parents/how we grew up - logic has no place. Emotion rules (I know this from personal experience smirk laugh ).

>> I have a feeling that my W isn't getting what she thought she would from leaving. <<<
I think so too. But like most MLCers she cannot handle confronting herself. You are receving the wrath for this revelation (on top of all), as her realization isn't what she thought it would be. She must be SO angry with herself .. & possibly (?!) her father on some level. After all, he still hasn't 'come through' for her, he isn't 'feel good' & she must 'experience that reality' somehow- who knows? But I assume her expectations re FIL & reality do not 'match'. She's angry & you're the punching bag.

>> I have real fear for my D14 if she ever needs to depend on her mother. I fear what my W will do and who she will become as the realization of what she has done hits her down the road. She is so very lost and is going deeper and deeper into the woods every day. One day she will stop running and look back and see that she is totally lost. What happens then? <<

Communication (but not too much all the time) will be important here. Also open-mindedness (unlike W), a willingness to get help it should she need to in future. She has to understand that it is the prevention/analogy cure - so that her own life would be happier & fulfiling after this ordeal during her teen + years, impacting on her youth - time lost. She is lucky to have you for a father - you are both in this together & will get through.

After reading your locked post ... I eventually found this, your new thread late last night ... & MORE - your continuing stress with this woman!!!!!

>> So much stress. I've been so stressed for long much of it because of my W. It isn't healthy and when the D is final, I lose my insurance! I need to find some way to de stress and find some kind of peace before I go insane and have my own "crisis! <<

Sorry about D /school. You are what's best for - it isn't wrong to not have mom if mom is that unstable! Parents protect their children. It was good that you didn't go into work - you really are tired & really need to decompress soon!
---------------------
I just read the remaining (new thread) replies (had started above but didn't finish last night). This is a lot for you - this is prolonged. You got some great advice. Matt you have to take a break OR 'break' frown. if you can't concentrate from too much nervous tension - then try walking ..something physical. Put on background music - get your mind off sitch if only for 10 mins at a time. Your brain needs breaks from the bombarding actions of this toxic MLCer, your W!

I like the suggestion re: writing grateful as well. I will put that into my own 'treatment plan' ... to build my immunity against 'MLC madness' (re grateful - I read something recently re: starting over in midlife - it was the very last (lengthy !!) comment that resinated with me. I don'r know if I can post link here, but will include details later on ...)

Work on getting strong Matt - we all must. After her/W's father's passing, I think that it highly probable that she may start her own healing without the 'influencing triggers' ALWAYS at her side, always prodding her along. However, that is no guarantee - the human condition is so complex. When my own gran died, my father said he thought he would have peace after her passing. He didn't. He had come to the realization that her death did not change anything - the war continued within him until his own passing.

Work on getting breaks from this chaos - it is your way out. I am dishearthened to read that financial is another burden for you. Take a deep breathe & make a plan for you. Re: taking breaks - your brain will 'thank' you for it (it also means that some of the crud left by th eMLCer would be out of the way, so that you could think more effectively for your future life & that of D14)

Will check on you later, ok? ...

Oh, just thought of what I am grateful for!!! YOU & so many of the posters here - those who have been to my threads & those who haven't - who I learned from (!) when I read their stories. I am grateful for this lifeline .. grin
THANK GOD for TECHNOLOGY - can't conceive going through this without it.

Last edited by pbetra; 08/07/14 12:30 PM.

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Matt,

It gets better. It really does. It's not a BAM! WOW! I'm all better sorta deal...more like...you have a bit of clarity here for a few minutes...then, a month later, more clarity and it lasts a bit longer.

This is a process. I'm sorry you are in the trenches right now.

At the same time, I know my time in the trenches has pushed me to be the fabulous woman I am today.

Be careful about turning that anger inwards. You don't deserve that, but I know it's an easy trap to fall into. When someone rejects us so profoundly, it's natural to wonder..."Am I really not worth it?"

The answer is..."YES!!! You are WORTH IT! She just can't see it right now."

If someone doesn't see your value, they just aren't looking deeply enough...possibly they are so shallow right now, they are unable to look deeply.


"You know, it's times like these when I realize what a superhero I am." Tony Stark/Iron Man

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Matt,

I went through a similar situation as you are. During my first round of divorce, my wifes attorney had the upper hand at first. I figured out that my original attorney was not the best one for my situation. He was following the typical path that a lot of divorces follow and not putting a lot of effort into it. I dropped him and found a new attorney. Rather than a country attorney, I went to a wealthier city nearby and found a good attorney there. He was more focused on the case and spent a lot of time getting prepared. When we had our next session, He actually went with guns loaded and asked for her to provide alimony to me. Her attorneys mouth actually hit the floor. She then disputed facts that my attorney provided about my wife that she did not have. My wife lost a lot of ground during that court session and the first divorce fell apart shortly after that.

I would suggest you ask yourself if your lawyer is doing the best they can for you. If not, then you have to decide if you can accept what is happening or get a new lawyer.

In terms of your daughter, your daughter may have the right to choose who she lives with. In my state, by their teens the kids have more say. You should look into this and then make sure your daughter is fully aware of what the law says and if she can, then she should know she can choose.


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On the subject of grateful, mentioned earlier & if you have TIME to read, search vibrantnation.com

Starting over in mid life - by TUF-E-NUF July 07, 2014
It starts this way > My husband and I met 5 years ago when we had both just come out of 15 year marriages. Both in our mid 40s. Both with nothing …..(& ends > ) How did we end up at 50 with absolutely nothing to show for it. I am just looking for anyone that might be in a similar situation. Thank you.


VERY LONG response but makes you think!
last comment is from -> grammayumyum says (there are others)
her story:
It starts > I am coming out of a brief marriage. I had been single for 13 years, and was quite content. … (& ends this way) now considered himself a spoiled brat, even in the midst of our present circumstances! :-)
God bless you. You may not feel like it, but you are already truly blessed!

Pls. advise if I have done wrong by posting this here - I read it to remind myself that I'm 'ok' (even though i don't always feel that way - i persist), thought I'd share. If 'wrong', will delete 'pronto'!!


pbetra
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BD: 6/03/2014
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2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact.
Back briefly 2017 (after family death)
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Hi Shining,
Thank you for your well thought out post! To answer some of your questions...my D19 has limited choices because of decisions that were made or I agreed to with my W (wish I hadn't now but hindsight is 20/20). When my D19 was 16-17 she was acting out. Much of it was due to the fact that her mom was absent for so long from her life due to depression/anxiety issues and then because she was in MLC and wasn't thinking of anyone but herself. My W talked me into not allowing her to drive as a means of control, to keep her from blowing off school, getting into trouble, etc. The summer before her sr year she and I found a way to get along and work through our problems. When her mom asked for a D, I stopped letting her influence how I dealt with my D and as a result she really changed. She ended up grad. with a 3.7 GPA and is a different person. But she was left with not being able to drive and no way to get a job or go to school. The plan was for W and I to get her a car so she could work and go to school while living at home. Now that can't happen as there's no money. Her mother told her if she lived with her she could walk to work but she is way too far from her school and there just aren't any close enough. Add to that she doesn't want to live with mom acting the way she is. She was wanting to live with me but my finances are much worse than my W's and she wouldn't even have a way to get to work. (we live in country and no buses even!). She would have to do nothing and put her life on total hold. Her BF lives in the city and she can get both a job AND go to school. She knows that living together may not be good for her R with him but I can't blame her for doing it! Just another bad thing that is coming from my W's need to find her joy!

My D14 was staying with my MIL and saw her crying while on the phone with W 3 nights out of the 4 she was there. Really broke my heart to hear her talk about it.

You are right about my general attitude and the way I'm looking at things right now. I know I will need to move towards forgiveness and away from resentment. It just seems every time I start to get closer, my W finds some new way to set me back. She just keeps bombing me with her craziness and no matter what I do or say she just does whatever she wants and usually that hurts me or my d's in some way. There is a breaking point when someone is under stress for as long as I have been. From the stress of trying to keep my M alive (with no help from my W) to the stress of having that effort fail and the way my W has gone about ending it. Every time we have come to an agreement on something she has "changed her mind" after talking to her father and done the opposite. We have had hard, emotional talks about what is best for the kids and us and I feel like maybe we can do this and then a week later my W will just say she changed her mind about all we agreed to and just do what her dad says she should, usually something that means I lose in some way.

Yes, there are good things under all this. I'm much closer to my D19 for one. There are more. In the end I will do all in my power to help my D14 get through this and she will. Just right now while the bombing from my W just won't stop, I am finding it very hard to just forgive, to see the good as the bad is just so bad right now.

Thanks Shining and I do think you are right about all you talked about. It's just finding that path to forgiveness while the woods are burning all around me is hard at the moment.

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Thank you pbetra, Heather and LT!
You always have such great insights. I will get through this if for no other reason than I must for my D's sakes. I'm late for work so I must go but I'll be back later. Thank you all, you are all a great help!

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Matt, you really are doing great. I haven't posted about my first marriage, but I will say that I know the continual bomb feeling. It is a living he//. I'm so so sorry.

For me, even that did get better. Of course every sitch is different. But the stuff he did to me and my kids was unspeakable and I wished him six feet under for a long time. Kids weren't speaking to him. He ultimately gave us permission to move to a different state. The fresh start, for us, was the best thing in the world. To not have him in our lives. I didn't speak of him negatively, nor did I allow the kids. That wasn't for him, but for them. I didn't want them to have hatred in their hearts because I knew it would haunt them later. I always taught them they got a crappy deal, and it wasn't fair. And they deserved a real dad. I told them that someday, they will have to have a conversation with him to reconcile all he has done to them. Not expecting him to admit or apologize, but they needed to get it out. Never never never in a million years would I imagine that a year ago, which is now about 7 years later, he and I have slowly developed a cordial friendship. He and the kids are communicating now. After we left the state, I couldn't tell you what he did with himself. But he is a different man today. He speaks differently. It is mechanical and forced empathy at times, but he makes the conscious effort to say and do the right thing. I am actually proud of him.

The best possible outcome has already happened.

I can't predict what will happen with your family. But I can attest to the fact that stranger things have happened in the world. Years from now, who knows. Just keep the white hat on, and love today.


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Hi everyone, Journaling a bit today.

I'm having a really tough time lately. Last night I watched a movie. Some stupid movie where the female love interest died. I started to cry, something I haven't done for a very long time, and couldn't seem to stop. Here I am, all alone after working so hard to make a life for myself and my family. Where are my kids that I sacrificed so much for and love more than I could ever say in words? Where is the person I loved, cared for when she couldn't care for herself, gave up so many of the things I wanted (including moving 1600 miles away from MY family so she could be near hers), who promised me that we would grow old together and would never leave?

I always knew that I when I died I would be together in the afterlife with my W. That we would be buried side by side to spend eternity the way we spent our lives, together. I put in the hard work, the raising of my oldest until adulthood and soon my youngest would follow. I married my best friend and thought how lucky I was for that. Soon we would have time and money to do the things we put off to raise our family. Now it's all just over. Wiped out by the person who I trusted more than any other. I did nothing wrong to deserve this! I tried my very best, I never gave up on her even when most people would have. I did everything I knew how but my W just ran and ran. Ran right to the person who had hurt her her whole life, her father. The man who I hated not only because of the way he treated her in the past but still treated her to the day she walked out.

Nothing I do makes a bit of difference. Even the fact that she is hurting her own kids doesn't even slow her down. She would rather spend her life alone, rather have her own family members think there is something wrong with her for doing this, than make one single bit of effort, take one step back and maybe think that she is making a mistake. She even wants to change her name back to match her daddies and erase me from her life like it never happened.

I hate who she has become. I hate who she is wanting to be. I hate that everything that was important and mattered to her no longer means a thing. I hate that we now are going to make our D14 choose which parent she will disappoint on holidays, that she now will think love is just a word. That M is only until you change your mind and you don't even need to try.

I know I need to buck up and just be strong. I really need to stop the pity party and get back to work on making my new life for myself and my girls. I'm going to pray a bit. Rest a bit. Recharge my batteries. Sometimes hope is a blessing, sometimes not so much.

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Matt, It's okay to have your pity party. You are strong and you will survive. I haven't read all of your sitch, but just like you keep encouraging me, I'm here for you.

Your Ds are going to grow up knowing that there are good men out there who will do whatever they can for their wives. They will find a man just like you as they move forward with their lives.

Talk to God, listen to Him. He hates divorce and will deal with your W how he needs to. He is here for you. Love Him and He will give you what you desire most. I understand and get that it's so hard to let them go, but let more of your W go. Don't give up, but let go.


Atsbaby
M:36 H:35
T: 19 M:12
S:11
D:9
BD: 5/4/14
Proof of OW 8/13/14-love note from her
8/19 admits OW
8/22/14 files D w/o telling me
9/20/14 Says he wants to reconcile
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(((Matt)))


Me: 39
H: 45
Second marriage for both
H left 12/2013
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Matt,

Prayers do work. None of this is easy, for sure. GAL and PMA are a daily practice and a daily struggle. I don't ever wake up bounding out of bed for the coming day, but I consciously make efforts and do mental, physical, and spiritual exercises to get as good as I can. Sometimes it doesn't work for snot. I've had the darkest of dark days earlier in all this, and a few weeks later another round of dark, episodes of scream-crying car drives, tantrums in my bed, and I'm going to have several more in the future I'm sure. This is a nightmare, even with the positives, this is a long bumpy road where there are no guarantees.

"The good thing is"..... although you are feeling so down, (not negating this fact, by any means) I can tell by your words that you have the capacity to recognize what you need to do. Not everyone can. (Pat pat pat on your back smile. ) And you are seeing what you can do. <<<<<keep focus here. And you are giving yourself the permission to be sad and angry, but you know that is not where you want to be forever. You are clearly on a path to figuring out what you need for you. The answers will come.

His was helpful to me for uRworthy on my first thread:

Quote:
It's a good idea to get a roadmap together on how you want to walk this. I had some things that were important to me. Having the roadmap helped keep me on track.


This was something I didn't fully understand I needed until later in the process. But without it, I tend to focus on that which is negative and out of my control. I can eeeeeaaaasily find ways to get myself off-track if I'm not careful. For me, denial and avoidance are like too much chocolate. Yummy at the time, but I would pay for it in other ways later.

I'm still working out my roadmap.... Probably still doing cookies in the parking lot lol. wink.


M44, H44, both M before
M4 yrs, T6
BD 7/13 ILYB something isn't right with me
H att suicide 2/14
S 4/14
OW disc 5/14
D final 4/15
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Hi Matt,
the movie 'hit home', hard It was not the best for you at this time - 'too close' to your sitch. Why wouldn't you cry? Trying to be strong all the time under these circumstances, is an ordeal, such 'full time' work! (try some comedies too!) laugh

I had my own pity party when I realized that I put all my eggs in this one basket, in spite of **more attractvie options but HE was MY partner (as I mentioned in **'confrontation' sometime ago).

When this happened to me, I thought, where am I now? I didn't work in the beginning of the marriage because he said he could take care of us both. He didn't want it at that time. Some suspected he didn't want me 'out there' ... shocked
He developed professionally. I didn't - I took care of the home & I stayed faithful (no matter what 'personal offers' came my way).

Where, where, where am I today?! Well uh, 'here' sick - older, deeply saddened, deceived & betrayed, not marketable, MORE fearful (starting over in midlife with very little but LOTS of brain fog) & him? Well, he's developed professionally throughout the years, dropped a nice big bomb on my head, & is socializing, out there with women who could be his daughters!! The man who I had to assure that I wouldn't be unfaithful b/c he was so insecure of the attention I got. That very same man. Where has it gotten me?

Trust me, I was depressed & so ANGRY with him. I get it out. I don't want the emotion staying 'within me' (he's affected me enough, can't let him get me sick too). So I express it, then I try (!!) to get distracted/busy with 'something'. Sometimes it's great - other times not so much, but I keep at it, knowing that time will help me eventually.

Try to find 'light' movies too - some thing that won't affect you too much. Movies that will have you turning off the remote with a pleasant feeling inside - maybe even a smile! smile p.


pbetra
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M: 15 yrs (in 2014)
BD: 6/03/2014
Infidelity ('known' from July 2014)
Denied PA Feb 2015
2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact.
Back briefly 2017 (after family death)
Separated 2017

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Quote:
I know I need to buck up and just be strong.


Matt, you ARE strong. Just because you're feeling low doesn't necessarily mean you HAVE to do ANYTHING. I've been feeling low today too. I'm trying to acknowledge what I'm feeling, take care of myself--went for a hike--bubble bath later--and I'm reassuring myself that I will be ok.

Grief requires some sadness. It's a part of the process of letting go of a dream of what was/what you wanted...

Labor is uncomfortable and painful, but you have a beautiful baby at the end :-)

I'm going to pray a bit. Rest a bit. Recharge my batteries.

I support ya here friend. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You WILL be ok. Know it, believe it.


"You know, it's times like these when I realize what a superhero I am." Tony Stark/Iron Man

“Focus on what you can do, then do it with all your heart.” Lois Wilson
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Quote:
Grief requires some sadness. It's a part of the process of letting go of a dream of what was/what you wanted...


Right on, L! ^^^^

My doctor said this, too.. Article "YOUR TEARS ARE TOXIC CHEMICAL LEAKS"

"The Surprising Truth:
While we usually think of crying as either weakness or Oscar bait, some researchers think the act of crying is actually the body’s way of evicting stress — literally.

As with most things, it all starts with brain chemicals. There is one called adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH), and it plays a crucial part in triggering cortisol, the hormone responsible for stress. When you get emotionally agitated, ACTH builds up, which in turn leads to more and more stress. Which makes you easier to agitate. It’s a vicious cycle to which there is no escape. So why don’t we all just choke to death on stress buildup every time we see a sad story in the newspaper?

Because sometimes, your brain just flat out declares that it has had enough of this stuff and blasts a bunch of ACTH out of your body. Through your tear ducts. We guess that’s better than leaking them out of other parts…

So crying is just the body’s way of stabilizing its chemical levels by literally squirting excess stress chemicals out through the tear ducts like optic blasts made of tiny frowns. That’s the reason most people feel better after crying — all that stuff that used to make you sad has literally been removed."

Sorry if that was too much science.... Made sense to me.


M44, H44, both M before
M4 yrs, T6
BD 7/13 ILYB something isn't right with me
H att suicide 2/14
S 4/14
OW disc 5/14
D final 4/15
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Shining,

That's really interesting.

I remember the scene in Broadcast News when Holly Hunter forces herself to cry. I loved that scene. It's a stress reliever. You feel better after. I hate the stigma attached to crying.


"You know, it's times like these when I realize what a superhero I am." Tony Stark/Iron Man

“Focus on what you can do, then do it with all your heart.” Lois Wilson
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Thanks everyone,
It's just been such a bad time. The movie wasn't a romance, it was a comedy/supernatural thriller. Just happened that the main character was in the kind of R I always thought I would have with W and died unexpectedly in the end. I really have stayed far, far away from romance and even Disney movies! I heard from my D19 today and she spent time with her mom today. She told me her mom is acting so "stupid". They were looking at shoes and she would say "I'm a single girl now so i need to buy these kind of shoes". This with her D! Her D who she knows is upset about her parents Ding and she acts like that? This was in front of her D14 as well. Didn't she do enough damage? Does she really think that acting like the last 25 years never happened, that tearing them away from the only home they have ever known, acting like it's just so wonderful getting a D, she is so happy ripping the family apart and there is zero pain involved is a good lesson for them? God, what is wrong with that woman! D19 told my W that changing her name was a bad idea and my W said "But ____ sounds so much cooler, don't you think?". My D is 19 and knows enough to be disgusted by her mother's behavior, especially around her little sister.

It would be so much easier if she would just have walked away and just left my D with me. If she would have just done what she said she was going to do and I could just sign the papers and get her out of all of our lives.

So, instead of getting better, my W once again made sure to do something that made things stay tense. At least I didn't have to deal with her this time!

I need to go to bed and try to get some sleep. Hopefully I'll feel better once D14 comes back for "my week"!

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Quote:
They were looking at shoes and she would say "I'm a single girl now so i need to buy these kind of shoes". This with her D! Her D who she knows is upset about her parents Ding and she acts like that? This was in front of her D14 as well. Didn't she do enough damage? Does she really think that acting like the last 25 years never happened, that tearing them away from the only home they have ever known, acting like it's just so wonderful getting a D, she is so happy ripping the family apart and there is zero pain involved is a good lesson for them? God, what is wrong with that woman!


Matt you have been giving good advice on others' threads.

Why do you allow yourself continually to become upset by what I am sad to say is perfectly standard MLC behaviour. Yes, it is upsetting, stupid and hurtful, and yes, they all do it. I am not unsympathetic, but it doesn't help you or your daughters to dwell on it. Please trust me on that.

I am not asking you to disregard 25 years of happy life together, but she isn't doing on purpose to hurt you, and you post as if she is.

Your head knows she is in MLC crisis and all bets are off.

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^^^^^^^

Beatrice is right. Matt, my h was telling his new friends about how silly he was acting now that he's single-he was still in the house. That is because I think many of them think once BD happens, they ARE single. The marriage is just a legal technicality and many just *don't like to deal* with that part.

I know it's hurtful. I do. However, it's just where she is. They will say crazy stuff. Just don't react and remember that she is on her own path. Let her walk it.



3 kids
BD 12/15/13 (IDKIILY. )
Rope dropped Cirque du Soleil style
D final 9-9-14
"Some people are born on 3rd base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." Barry Switzer
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It's a BRAND SPANKING NEW DAY Matt!!! ;-)

What do you Want for YOU????

YOU have been given a second chance. Nope, you didn't ask for it...but, you got it. What's the alternative? To spend more of your precious life attached to someone who thinks it's ok to make comments like that to your two daughters?

When I read what she said...yep, it's sad...BUT, it's also a gift...in a strange way...for your Ds. It's validation that mom is CRA-CRA right now. Nothing worse than people who are crazeeeee but able to pull off the appearance of SANITY. At least your girls are getting a full-on glimpse of the workings of her adolescent mind. It will make it easier on them in the long run when they try to recover from the neglect/emotional unavailability of their mom. It will make easier for them to see her for who she is right now than blaming themselves and turning that rejection of family on themselves.

This lady is >>>>>>>T.R.O.U.B.L.E.D.<<<<<<<<<

She has been that way for awhile. God just gave you a chance to REDO things in HIS way, YOUR WAY, FOR YOUR Ds. He gave you a WAY OUT.

Get a lil excited. Just a lil.

She only seems irreplaceable right now because of the intense hurt she has caused. When that happens, our brain tends to get confused between the love and danger element. Don't idealize your relationship. Look at it with honesty. Look at HER with honesty.

What things have you allowed in your life to hold you back? What things are you most afraid of?

God has great things in store for you my friend. Open yourself up to the possibilities of this new life.

You have two beautiful daughters who may go on to value family all the more because they watched their mom throw it away recklessly. I know that's what happened to me after my dad's MLC...I value family and those good moments together. I treasure them. I know what's really important in life.

YOU HAVE TO MAKE YOUR LIFE BETTER THAN IT WAS...This is the thing that will put the rejection in it's proper place...SUCCESS...by whatever measure you hold it (doesn't have to be money)...what's your vision of success??? Take one lil action step to achieving it today. God will put things in place to help you get there.

Quote:
Verse 1:
(This morning when I rose),
I didn't have no doubt.

(This morning when I rose),
I didn't have no doubt.

(This morning when I rose),
I didn't have no doubt.

(I know the Lord) will take care of me,
(I know the Lord) will provide for me,
(and I know He will)
lead and guide me all the way,
yes, all the way.

Verse 2:
(I woke up this morning, I saw a brand new day),
I didn't have no doubt.

(I woke up this morning, I saw a brand new day),
I didn't have no doubt.

(I woke up this morning, I saw a brand new day),
I didn't have no doubt.

(I know the Lord) will take care of me,
(I know the Lord) will provide for me,
(and I know He will)
lead and guide me all the way,
yes, all the way.

Read more: Mississippi Mass Choir - This Morning When I Rose Lyrics | MetroLyrics


Much Love,

Heather


"You know, it's times like these when I realize what a superhero I am." Tony Stark/Iron Man

“Focus on what you can do, then do it with all your heart.” Lois Wilson
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Wow. Heather, that is some absolutely friggin' awesome advice and perspective. And spot on.

Matt, re-read Heather's post to you. You'll find some real value there.

If it helps Matt, I have the same kind of ex. Troubled barely even covers it. But the mistake I made was not cutting ties much sooner than I did. But once I took my eyes off of the nuttiness - guess what? Things got better for my kids and for me. In a hurry.

It's taken time to figure out how to let the crazy go. And the ex hasn't made it easy. Neither has her husband (the white knight). The sooner you start to learn to let the crazy go (I gave it up in 2009 - <crowd says>Hi AJ) the better for all concerned.

Takes practice and determination though, Matt. You can start right now. smile


AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
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"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
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I should have read this first
Quote:
We guess that’s better than leaking them out of other parts…
Now I have to go clean coffee off the monitor... smile

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
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Interesting, Shining. And well explained, too!

Matt-
Heather and AJ are right on. It may seem I am terribly "stuck" but there is a whole part of my journey that was not posted here. I was dbing from the months of November through July before I was bombed again. They were very different for me (I won't waste time now explaining how it was emotionally different), but the point is, I've been there. We all have. I can hardly watch tv, listen to radio, watch movies, even drive to certain cities, shop at certain store, yadda, yadda.... It is really tough, but we have got to find a way to get past that. I think it comes in bits as we further separate ourselves. BUT.......

Do you know what this means?? We have the opportunity to become so independent from that. We can truly find ourselves outside of someone else. When I was told that before, I thought, but I'd rather be with him. HOGWASH! I'm so serious, Matt. You have so much to offer this world- don't hold back because of her! You are amazing, compassionate, grounded, a great dad- think about what you have and focus on that!

When I think about h, I think about how sad his situation is. Not that I feel bad for him (although sometimes I feel that), but really, like who the heck would want to live like that?! Then I think about how he probably thinks about my life now- the same as how he left it, just without him. No way! I have the opportunity of a lifetime. Yes I am devastated about what happened to my family; my heart breaks for my children. However, I can stay stuck in that, or show my kids what life is all about. Yup, we were thrown a curve ball (to say the least). That happens in life. I can still show them how important family is, just like Heather learned. I am confident in that. My kids know I would never let them down like that. They have also relied on each other so much and become much closer. I am sure that wouldn't have happened if the circumstances were different. Your kids rely on you and know you are their rock and foundation. They are watching you (scary thought for me, sometimes).

I don't want that life my h leads, and I know you don't want the one your w leads either. They don't even know what they really want. Can you imagine thinking that throwing away your family is an answer to ANYTHING? No way, Jose! Remember, Matt, she is making these bizarre choices now. Your kids get it; they know it's absurd (which is good). You can't change it. I just think, "My h does not want me. Why would I want to be with someone who does not want me?" It's a tough pill to swallow, but it is reality. Accepting this makes it easier to detatch. If this is the life he wants, wow! I'd rather stay faaaaarrrrr away! I want so badly to try to figure it out. Well, not gonna happen. (Meet me on my thread as I try to figure it out. Haha!)

You are doing so well, Matt. I hate to see you down and let her actions affect you. Once the thoughts enter, remove her from them. Remember she made these choices, and you are much better than that.

If you could be with her right now and live the life she is living and act like a teenager, would you? What is more important? Being with her and compromising yourself by acting and living like someone you are not, or..... being happy with who you are and content in your life?

You'll get there, Matt. It's a tough road. Be true to yourself. It's not something the MLCer knows how to do. follow your own path, not watching hers.

Can you say... holy ramble..... sorry.

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Good morning everyone,
Thanks everyone, for waking me up a bit. Great post Heather, really helped put things in their place. You are all right, of course. But to know something intellectually is different than being able to put it into practice. It doesn't help that she left when I needed her income more than I ever have in the last 20 years. I'm not used to having to worry so very much about being able to make money. I joined the start up because I know that I can be so very successful given time and it would have allowed my W and I to have the money and time, in a few years, to do so many of the things we have always wanted. But as with any new business, it will take time to get there. Add that I haven't been at my best since my W started down this destructive path (it was only 3 months past when I started this new job when I got bombed) and that just added to the amount of time it will take. Her crap almost destroyed any chance that this business will ever work because I wasn't able to give it my all.

Funny my D19 used the exact same term as you to describe her mom, Heather. She said her mom is CRA-CRA. Heck, even her own friends think she is acting crazy! There are just so many things that I've had to do from the IRS audit which is just beginning, to having to deal with my W going back on everything she promised now that she has filed her decree. This is in addition to all the other things that just don't wait because my W has filed and I must deal with that.

I also think the fact that I haven't seen my D14 for almost 12 days since she stayed with her grandmother for a few days last time it was my turn to have her is bothering me as well. I haven't been away from her for longer than 2 weeks her whole life and to leave her where I know she is with a person I don't trust (even though it's her own mother) I think is really getting to me more than I realized.

You are right Heather, It's a brand new day, and I need to just get ready to see my D14 and make the most of what time is left before she must go to school. She only has a very few weeks and I want to do something fun with her.

Thank you everyone. I know I've been a bit maudlin the past few days and I appreciate the support to help get me through! I need to keep my eyes on the prize and make the most of this time. I will get through this and I will make sure my kids know that what my W has done by throwing away a family isn't what is right or normal. That the right thing is to work to keep the family together, to appreciate that family is important and not something you just throw away and pretend never happened. Time to put this down period behind me and start moving forward.

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Matt,

I know the grief process isn't always linear. It's best to unhitch your wagon from W's train wreck. Otherwise she'll bring you down as well. Not good if you are going to take care of yourself and DDs for a while.

You wrote:

Originally Posted By: Matt165
It doesn't help that she left when I needed her income more than I ever have in the last 20 years.


No, you don't. You can and WILL figure how to bring in extra income. It is all on HOW motivated you are in seeking new ways to bring in more income.

I don't need Ms. Wonka's income. I've done just fine without hers because I had to TAKE CARE OF MYSELF first and foremost. I networked my butt off!

So can you.

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Oddly Matt, this is a great life skill. One which you already possessed for many years. How to be at peace with yourself during times of difficulty.

Remember that it is not easy to wean the parent from the child. I know she's 14, but she's growing up faster than the older daughter. And believe me, both daughters talk to each other. They both know what their mom is all about. You can put that one to rest. They are already formulating plans on how NOT to be like their mother etc. I hope for them that's the case.

As for you, I suspect it's really the adjustment of your daughter growing up and being away from you. I know she hasn't been gone from you that long before and that you are a very protective father (and rightfully so). You're a bit raw right now. While that's expected, you have already noticed that knowing something and "knowing" something can be different.

Give yourself some slack. Let the Cra-Cra one go. Don't try to rationalize it or help or any of that. Focus on you and your job and your daughters. You'll need to do things differently, but that's actually a good thing, Matt. Doing things differently teaches the brain to work better. And it helps to bring you out of doldrums.

Your ex took a ride on the crazy train. Everyone knows it. There is not much sense in getting angry about it. Might be better to see the bright side - hey! No more crazy and you can instead be happier than you ever thought you could with a partner that is a true partner.

I get the anger, but I also get the joy, Matt. It just takes time to get from one to the other and along the way it's a little "rough" on some days.

Enjoy the week and understand that being betrayed comes in many forms. But there is nothing other than your ego that needs to be fixed in this case. The rest is just something to line up and shoot down. And you'll do it better than many, Matt.

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
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My gosh, I was emotional just reading all the lovely replies to you Matt! (am taking note for me too)

But they, the posters are right. I remember one day when my h. was dismissive & arrogant (not significantly long after the bomb). I had begun reading the suggested threads & links here. Some of the information here communicated that he wouldn't be in this mlc predicament had so many family issues not escaped 'their Pandora's box' & finally caught up with him in midlife. And then ... I thought if I feel occasionally tired & I am getting older (!) - do I really want to haul 'that' baggage into my old age? (esp. when I have to manage my own as well)

We don't know how we would feel in a few years from now or where life would take us. Putting this amount of energy into 'crazy' will only deprive us of resources we will need for ourselves one day. It's about depletion - & interestingly enough the mlcer would be no more stable it. It's their 'virus' - it has to run its course. You are a good man and now you must be good to you. Eveything else will eventually fall into place. p.


pbetra
----
M: 15 yrs (in 2014)
BD: 6/03/2014
Infidelity ('known' from July 2014)
Denied PA Feb 2015
2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact.
Back briefly 2017 (after family death)
Separated 2017

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Re: For better or for worse, for richer or for PORES? >> Just got a text from W about picking up my D14. She said we could meet unless I want to come over and get her from her home. (??) Why would she think I would want to go there? It's 20 miles farther. I don't get her. Oh, well. I better get ready. Thanks again Raine and thank your H as well!<<

Stay away from her. Remember she also has her 'entourage'. You 'don't get her' because crazy is hard to 'get'! Glad to hear that D14 is back!


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M: 15 yrs (in 2014)
BD: 6/03/2014
Infidelity ('known' from July 2014)
Denied PA Feb 2015
2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact.
Back briefly 2017 (after family death)
Separated 2017

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Matt. Sorry to see you have had some rough days. You got some wonderful thoughtful advice. I know rhat intellectually you know what to do because you give others good advice. Step of the cra cra train and wave good bye at the station. It is much harder to do in our own situations. Start each day fresh and remind yourself that you are a strong capable parent and man and you can do this.


Me 44 H 42
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Ss 20 16
S11 (special needs)

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Thank you all! You all have given me great advice and helped me gain strength. My D14 (and her little dog too) are back home. She stayed with me all night and we watched a movie together. Doesn't sound like much but when she's with her mom she spends her time alone in her room. Something she started doing when her mom took over the living room couch while she was still here. Now we can be together.

When I met my W to pick her up she hardly looked at me and was in a big hurry. Nearly ran back into her car when I put my D's stuff in. On, well. Didn't want to talk to her anyway and I was really wanting to get home and make dinner for us. (W never cooks meals. She says since D is 14 she can "fend for herself". I disagree!).

New week starts tomorrow and one of my partners has a plan to bring in extra revenue during the election season. Something new to work on, just what I need! Thank you all so much you have kept me going during some dark times!

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Hi Matt,

From all your posts I feel we are on a similar path. We are both dealing with a severely depressed spouse. Is your wife on Anti Depressants? If she is have you looked up online the relationship between ADs and falling out of love? AnotherStander, who also posts to these forums has written as well about this and has a lot of insight as well. I would look up his posts and read through them.

I think the problem we both have as men is that we have known for a long time about our spouses illness and have tried to protect them like any husband would. It is very hard for us to step back and stop doing what we have done for so long.

I am dealing with many of the same behaviors as you are. Right now my wife can't handle any in person or verbal interactions with me. She is trying to distance herself from what she tried. She is laying blame all around for her actions. The kids see things and know their mother is not all right. They are not rushing to move back in with her. Eventually she may face her demons.

The best advice is to get knowledge. Learn as much as you can about depression. Learn as much as you can on the long term affects of ADs. There is a lot that the medical community dismisses. Unfortunately there is so much evidence that goes counter to what the medical community says. Knowledge will give you the strength to step back and have a clearer understanding of how she is acting and allow you to make good informed decisions for you and your daughter.


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Hi LT,
I have known for sometime about how AD's have hurt our M. In fact AD's hurt our sex life greatly and that was the start of W's decent. We always had a really good sex life. AD's made that almost impossible and it freaked her out. In fact, I'm very down on the "medical community" right now as her GP told her that AD's only effect her sex life IF her M was bad to begin with! I couldn't believe this when she told me that her Dr. (who I also know recently had his own MLC and left his Dr. W!) would say something so unprofessional! She told me that he also told her that "as soon as I get away from you, I'll be able to atop taking AD's again". At first I thought she was either making this up or "miss heard" what he said but I also know that Dr's, like other people, do have their own problems and if he is in his own MLC, may actually believe what they want.

One of the reasons she went back on AD's (she stopped about a year after going back to work, a big mistake in hind sight) was her inability to sleep because of her anxiety (depression and anxiety go hand in hand). She would lay in bed and worry, worry, worry and that killed our M. Since leaving she hasn't been able to go off and is still not sleeping. She let this info out one day when we were driving to her grandmother's birthday party together a few weeks after she left. Of course, she still finds ways to blame me for this (It's because she hasn't gotten the D finalized yet and hasn't been able to totally cut ties from me. At least that was her excuse then, who knows what it will be tomorrow!). When she was going through her first huge depressive episode I learned as much as I could about depression and AD's, etc. The thing is, my W is one of those people that are so afraid of being "weak". So not wanting to believe that her problems are caused by something in her but would rather blame an outside force, in her case she wants to blame her M and me.

I really don't think she was ever out of her depression but used her work to cover it up. She has even told me that she has felt so bad for so long and she has tried so many things to stop feeling so awful but nothing has worked. D'ing me she said is the biggest thing she can see that she can change and before she was M, she never was depressed. She thinks that if she is on her own, totally in "control" of every part of her life, she won't be able to be depressed because I won't be around to "help" her. Yes, crazy thinking but when someone is depressed and in MLC, you really can't expect clear thinking!

I really believe that MLC and depression are almost always found together. One feeds off the other. It took me a very long time to detach at all because I saw what she was doing as another chapter in her depression and she was just sick and needed my help. Well, part of what she needs from me now is for me to detach and let her see what it's like on her own without my "help" and love. Hard to do after so many years of her needing the opposite!

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Wow, Matt. That sounds so typical, yet so sad. The blame part is the most ironic. Yet, I think the biggest piece that keeps them in MLC. As long as it is something/someone else's fault, there is no reason to be accountable for anything.

I can't believe the dr. That is terrible. I just don't like the mentality in our society that things are so easily disposable, particularly a family and marriage. Unreal- someone in that profession, prescribing these meds should have a better clue. I don't like the flippant attitude about this situation and about prescribing meds at all. It is serious stuff and should be handled accordingly. That must be really frustrating for you. Boy, this is an uphill battle, for sure. She is going to have to learn for herself. She will see, once she feels "free" of you, or whatever she wants, she still will not find happiness.

I can tell you, I gave my h a quick and easy d. I have not gotten paperwork finalizing it, but I just went right along. If that's what he wanted, he got it. He was adamant, and such a jerk, I felt the best option was to give him what he thought he wanted, to be "free" of me. Then he could take a look in the mirror and see that he really wasn't happier. Well, as you know, things didn't work out exactly like that. But, the last conversation we did have, I said, you must be relieved, our divorce is almost final and you will be free of me. His response, "It's not a relief." What the heck is that?! See... they think they know what they want.... they have no clue.

Focus on you! Take care, Matt!

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Hi Matt,

From my own research on depression and ADs I know that there is only one way at this point that the depressed can help their situation. They have to first admit the problem comes from within and stop trying to blame others. They then need to find a counselor that will help them to learn the signals of an on coming depressive period and to help them learn skills that will help them to cope during those periods.

The problem with AD's is that they are addictive. You can't go cold turkey without the chance of a major depressive episode. They also loose their effectiveness over time and may actually cause a more depressive situation. To get off them takes a doctors supervision and a long time to gradually reduce the dosage.

Unfortunately most severely depressed are convinced they cannot live without ADs.

I believe that MLC is just another symptom of their depression. Until they can get the right kind of support they will probably never get well.

So, like you, I have to admit I cannot help her. I need to focus on my daughters and myself. For their well being and my own, I need to put my wife on the back burner and let her deal with her own situation. I need to recharge myself and find a new life.

You need to do the same.


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Have you noticed yet Matt? This is NOT about you?
Quote:
When I met my W to pick her up she hardly looked at me and was in a big hurry. Nearly ran back into her car when I put my D's stuff in.
It's been years Matt, and my ex still can't look me in the eye on the occasion that we run into each other. She can't speak rationally, and can't really have anything to do with me in a positive manner. Years Matt. I'm sure the people she is around don't help that as I've noticed they seem threatened by her talking to me. smile

I've noticed through the years that exW comes up with drama or some way to "blame" me. It's worn thin, even for her.

But as you may have noticed from your W's statements, she is trying to fix herself. The docs didn't help. So she is trying to self-medicate and fix herself. This is a journey for her and although she doesn't like it (regardless of what she says) she needs very badly to fix herself.

Those on the outside can see that won't work. We see the fallout of her choices. But, frustrating as it is, we didn't break them and we can't fix them. They seem to think they can fix themselves, but that's not likely either Matt.

Try not to judge based on "normalcy" and instead see it for what it is. A desperate woman trying to fix herself and going about it in the most destructive possible way from your perspective. But like any sick person, wish her good health and the best of luck. Regardless of what she says or does.

When the current efforts don't work to ease the pain she feels, she'll try more attacks. It's like they feed off the attacks in some cases. When they see it isn't giving them the "hit" they want, they look for something else. Eventually, they realize they can't get anything from you and look elsewhere. They are compelled to do so.

In some cases, they "wake up" and see the destruction they caused. In some, they never do wake up to it and instead live in that fantasy land they constructed.

But it's classic to blame you (not you per se, but blame AT you) by trying to go back to a time that they didn't feel the pain. They go back to the happy times in their heads. Childhood, before they met you (they re-remember their pasts to make you the bad guy), when they married, had kids, etc.

This isn't about you, Matt. This is something broken in her and she is trying to fix it. Step far back and don't get caught in the flak, Matt. At some point she may feel sad about the loss of the marriage. That may come across as weird and she may try to contact. Even be friendly. Be wary.

It's sad, but it's not about you Matt. She's the broken one and while you are willing to help, she needs to do this on her own.

AJ


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Hi Mighty,
Yes, it has been very frustrating! When I told her that her Dr either didn't say that or if he did I should sue him for malpractice, my W told me that I just didn't want to "see the truth"! I wonder how many M's that guy has ruined with poor advice like that. He isn't even a mental health professional, he's just a GP. When my W was seeing a Psychiatrist he told her that sexual side effects were caused by the meds. She stopped seeing him and went to her GP instead to "save money" when she went back on them and got this crap "advice". I do think at times that I would love to sue the guy as it says right on the label that there are sexual side effects but he supposedly knows better. Of course he is newly D and single himself (his kids went to the same school as our D's)and probably is anti marriage. Who knows, maybe he's dating his female patients (LOL)!

MLC is all about blame IMO. If they feel bad, it must be because of something outside of themselves. I could have easily blamed my W if I was unhappy while she was so depressed and I had to take over so many of the responsibilities of running a home and family. But I knew it was up to me, that my W was sick and it was up to me to keep things going until she got better. She just never got better. Oh, she wanted to believe she was better. She threw herself into her work, neglected her family and kept herself always moving but she lost the ability to care about the things that used to be important to her. The more I tried to get her to be more involved with me and the kids, the more resentful she became.

So it sounds like your H was like my W. Wanting to believe that all that they had to do was get away from us and all would be happy in the world. For him to say "It's not a relief" is just so crazy if you think about it. He got the thing he said he needed. He should be relieved and happy. If he's not wouldn't you think that would make them stop and reassess things? No, not for the MLCer.

My W has told our D19 that she feels like she "Made a wrong turn somewhere in my life". So, does that mean that she is starting to see that her M isn't the cause? Who knows. My poor D19 is just left wondering what that means and why her mother has just thrown away her father and broken up her family. Heather has said that this may just help my girls value their H's and families more in the future. I would think that was the case but my W had the same type of thing happen to her when her father left her mother for OW. I always thought that because of this, because she saw first hand the pain caused by D that my W would never do the same to her family. She said as much for 25 years before B-day. But just like an MLCer she has started to do everything she always swore she would never do and won't stop even when it's not having the desired effect. For all those that come on the boards and say that many LBS's WANT the WAS to be having an MLC (even when they're not).... that is the last thing anyone who is going through a S having an MLC would ever want! If my W was just a WAS there would be the hope that once she saw that she isn't getting the results that she had hoped, she may stop and think maybe she was wrong. With MLC that just can't happen. They aren't in their right minds and can't think logically, can't see what everyone around them see's so clearly! No, I would rather it not be MLC for sure.

Thanks for the support Mighty. I know how hard your sitch is and I want to say you are handling it better than most others would! We'll both get through this and be better for it. We can only hope that our S's can wake up before they destroy themselves completely.

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Matt
I just wanted to post to you that you dont seem as angry as you were a few weeks ago,,,just wanted to tell you I noticed and hope you continue to improve you and move forward!

Have not noticed any GAL you have done lately (maybe I missed it) but don't forget to have some fun.


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Hi 2B and thanks for stopping by! Yes, I need to GAL a bit more. I got kinda bogged down for a bit and wasn't doing enough. Now that my D14 is back home, I feel SO much better. I am realizing just how much I hate being alone all the time!

Did something last night I probably shouldn't have done. When I heard about Robin Williams I texted my W about it. We both were fans and I know her, she hadn't heard yet as she never keeps up with current events (something I do). Well, all I wrote was he had died and that it was suicide and how sad it was. No more than 10 words. A couple hours later she texted back.."Wow. Hard to live a million miles an hour I guess". At least she acknowledged my text. My mistake was texting back that he was always pretty crazy like his idol Jonathan Winters. Got nothing, dead silence. After, I thought that, knowing her, she see's this as pursuing. Oh, well. Can't do anything about it now!

I need to talk to my D14 about the D. My W had promised that we would have something in the D about D14 being able to have some choice about where she stays as I don't like the fact that she is spending one week with her, one week with me now that school is starting. What a weird way to live your life! Now, not only does she make this official, she locks in times for pick up/ drop off, what holidays she spends with me or her and even dates for those holidays! That I have to let her know by April 1st exactly when I plan to have vacation with her in the summer! (this from a woman who said that when she gets called out of town for work when she has our D, she will just find a "friend" to watch her, get her to school and back, feed her, etc.!). I think this is wrong and the reason my W is doing this is because she "knows" that I will turn our D against her and since she is the one who left the M, I will make D14 hate her. This way D14 will be "forced" (her word) to spend time with her even if she ends up hating her! The last thing a 14 (almost 15) year old needs is to be told exactly when and where she must be at all times. What about school activities? My W moved 26 miles away and put D14 in school THERE and since I now can't afford private school and the school where W lives is a little bit better than where I live, I went along.

I want to do the right thing for my D! I want her life to be the best it can be especially this first year. I really think it's a mistake for her to be stuck in a rigid schedule like this. The only way to stop it is have my D14 tell the court that she wants to live with me as primary custodian. I will never stop her from seeing her mother (although I can see her mom not letting her see me) and if she wanted to stay with her mother longer for some reason I would be fine. I also worry about my W's ability to take care of her down the road. If she becomes depressed as badly as in past, there is no way I want my D living with her. I just dread talking to my D about this. I hate to make her feel like she must choose between me and her mother. I feel I must just tell her that because of the way her mom has set things up, she will have little choice where she spends her time and I want her to have that freedom. To do that I would need to be primary and for that to happen she will need to support this in court. That's really the truth and is non judgmental.

I don't know. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

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Matt,

You sound like you're spinning with the low feelings and with the texting W and the worries about D14, etc...

When I spin, it's better to do NOTHING than act on impulse and regret it later. Get yourself centered.

Maybe start with your attorney before you bring ANYTHING up with D14. She is already under enormous pressure. Ask your L the questions you've raised above. What are D14's rights in all of this? That's how I've handled this...start with the L.

And, get back into your lane. W isn't there anymore. She just isn't.

Much love,

Heather


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Matt,

Talk to your lawyer to get correct answers about your daughter. Everyone else can conjecture, but your lawyer will be able to tell your what is most likely to happen.

In most states I believe that by their mid teens kids can express where they want to live and it will carry weight with the court. You can also seek to have a lawyer appointed to represent your daughter and her best interests. You may also seek some evaluation to see if your wifes depression can affect her ability to be a responsible parent. All of this will take your lawyers help.

Until you get accurate answers, you will just be going around in a circle jerk getting yourself all worked up. Get your lawyer going, sit back and take a deep breath and find something to do for yourself. You can't fix this, you just have to do what is right and see where things fall. Be the best father you can be for your daughter and things will work out. Take this from someone who lost his daughters for a while and now has them back in his life full time.


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Matt,

I am sorry that you're feeling down and frantic with the changes. Center yourself and phone your L about your options.

I am realizing just how much I hate being alone all the time!

This tells me that you are not quite comfortable in your own skin. I've been alone for 10 years today (today is the day Ms. Wonka moved out with the OW) and I've been doing just fine thanks to GAL. Yep, it was tough in the beginning. Now? I relish being able to hog the bed sheets all by myself and vaccum the house naked! wink Yeah...just threw that one in for the shock value.

I need to talk to my D14 about the D.

Matt, you are the adult here and you don't want to put an undue burden on your D14. You can be very matter of fact by stating that you and her mother will be getting a divorce. Although the parents are not able to live together, D14 is very much loved by you and her mother. If D14 brings up the face that her mother is not well or whatever, just state that it is for W to figure out on her own and that you're sad for her. No need to bash or badmouth W here. After all, she is their mother.

You need to be very clear to D14 that she has full access to both parents. You can simply ask her what her preference is in regard to the primary household. Then shut it. Thank her for her thoughts and that you would do your best to work this out. No guarantees.

Then you may need to gently broach the subject of school and let her know that attending the area private school may no longer be an option due to the divorce. This is a good teaching tool for D14 that this is a transition and she needs to learn how to adapt to this change.

I don't want you to bring up W in this and telling D14 that she cannot go to private school because of W. Shut it. Just state that it is the reality with the changes from W moving out and proceeding with the divorce. Yep, it [censored] for you and D14.

You all need to adjust to a new normal going forward.

And yes! Talk with your L first before you have the convo with D14.

NO BADMOUTHING W. Rinse...repeat.

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Quote:
I am realizing just how much I hate being alone all the time!

This tells me that you are not quite comfortable in your own skin. I've been alone for 10 years today (today is the day Ms. Wonka moved out with the OW) and I've been doing just fine thanks to GAL. Yep, it was tough in the beginning. Now? I relish being able to hog the bed sheets all by myself and vaccum the house naked! wink Yeah...just threw that one in for the shock value


This is one of the great lessons that MLC has to teach us. Being on your own is tough especially for extroverts, and yes Wonka is right, tough in the beginning, but now? I like it.

I am sad that for so many it is considered second best. That dealing with MLC is seen by some as 'training' for the next relationship. What if that isn't what life has in store?

Matt you are vulnerable right now. Take care.

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Matt, I see you looking for comfort from the person who gave you this gaping wound. After a lion attack, I'm thinking you and the lion wouldn't hug it out.

I was stuck there for a very long time...reached out almost daily for nearly two years trying to find comfort from Smokey. It's a bad place to be.

Comfort yourself. You can do this!


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Wow, Heather... I hadn't really thought about it like that. I think I was probably doing the same. You hit the nail on the head and put it into perspective. Yikes!

We can do this, Matt!

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Guys, I think I haven't been clear...I did speak with my L and unless my d14 says that she wants to live with me as her primary household, my options are very limited. I have already spoken to my D about the fact that her mom has filed. I said pretty much exactly what was suggested. I'm not spinning about the text. I just mentioned it because I did it without even thinking. Got to be more aware before doing anything that involves my W.

My lawyer is the one pushing me to talk with my d14. Because my W just went ahead and filed what she wants as the final, I must file my response and at this point D's custody is the biggest sticking point. I spoke to my D and I was very clear that I want her to have access to both of us and would NEVER stop her from seeing her mom. As far as the school thing, she knows that she can't go and has resigned herself to the fact that she will be going to the school near her mom. She has even registered for classes and I have been talking it up, trying my best to get her excited about it. I have not once "bad mouthed" or blamed my W for any of this. When she asks I tell her that her mom felt that she needed to leave the M and she will need to ask her why. (The reason that she has given my D14 so far is just that it "wasn't happy here" meaning in our home, of course it doesn't explain why she felt the need to get D, just why she left.)

By just asking where she wants the primary household to be isn't really giving her the info she needs. She probably feels bad that she would need to choose between either of us and I don't blame her. If I had my way, I would be fine with splitting custody 50/50 if my W would be reasonable about NOT going into so much detail about where she MUST stay and when without any regard to D14's feelings. Even my W when this first started said that if we did 50/50 that we wouldn't need to have all the details spelled out, that we could do whatever it is that we felt best. The problem now is I can't seem to have a conversation with my W that doesn't end in her running away screaming if I don't 100% agree with whatever it is she wants or where I can trust her to not "change her mind" a week later. Having a "co-parent" type of arrangement would be great. It would allow leeway and changes in circumstances and schedules. It would show our D14 that we are reasonable adults that both love her and are doing what is best for her. But how is that possible when one parent isn't reasonable? The fact that my W has stated that she wants me to back "forcing" D14 to do things that she doesn't want to do because, as my W has said, that her "best memories" of her father from her childhood are when he forced her to do things with him that she didn't want to do. This is new for W. In the past 26 years she would talk about how much she hated that her father "forced" her to spend time with him and OW. That she felt so uncomfortable around him and hated every moment. It's only now that she is fully in replay that she thinks that he was right to do this.

I have totally accepted that my D won't be going to the school she has wanted to. That she will not know a single person at her new school. That she will most likely be left alone every day after school when she is at her mothers until late at night (very dangerous at her age!). That if my W has her way she will "force" my D to do things she just doesn't want to do. Stay with my W's new "friends" when she is called out of town for work. Now my W wants D's life to be mapped out by court order. Look, if it were up to me I would have kept things the way they were for a while and see how it worked after the start of school. W made that impossible because she got upset and pushed finalizing the D sooner than she had said she would. Now I'm forced to either experiment with seeing how things go and then trying to come up with more money for another lawyer later to change the custody arrangements or stop my w from doing this now, before I have a chance to see just how bad she is going to be about forcing my D to do things she doesn't want to do.

It also doesn't help that my W now isn't going to let me keep the house (it's paid off, no mortgage, it was paid off before my W went back to work. Another thing we decided together to do sacrificing new cars and vacations and such). She was going to do this because she knows that I needed her income and she promised to back me in my start up business then decided that she must get a D. Along with the fact that I cashed in my retirement ($46,000) when I started this so we had more savings to live off at first. This was from my job before we were married so it wouldn't have been split in a D. I also paid $20,000 to pay off a law suit that came up from student loans from before we were married and I wasn't liable for, again from money earned by me before she went back to work. In return I wasn't going to ask for half her retirement money, spousal support or sole custody of D14 and child support. (Again, the custody thing was because of how my W said it was going to work, not how she has now spelled it out). Now my w wants me to just be able to live in the house until D14 turns 18 and sell it and give her half. She doesn't have to help pay for any upgrades I make, taxes, upkeep, getting it ready to sell, etc.

So, she gets to leave me with a negative balance in checking account because she didn't tell me that she wasn't putting her salary in the joint account while she was still living at home and allowed me to keep paying the bills, get all the antiques we bought at her grandmothers estate sale ($5,000+ spent and worth more than that now), keep all the retirement she has since starting her job (I cashed mine in), no spousal support even though for the first time in 20+ years I needed her income and she promised that she would back me, (She earns 7 times what i do at this time) and she gets to keep half the proceeds from the sale of the house and her car that was in both our names. Not to mention that over the years all our tax return money (even when she wasn't working) went to pay off her student loans from before we were married. I also allowed her to take the best furniture and appliances when she left, again, because she had said i was getting the house.

I'm really not spinning per se. I don't like that I must make these decisions right now but that isn't my doing. I'm actually calmer than I have been in the past about it all except having to speak to my D14 about the custody issue. I should have known that my W would end up going back on everything we agreed to from what I have seen on this board. From past experience over the last year. Well, I didn't and now I have to respond and I really want to do so in a way that least affects my D in a negative way.

Sorry this was so long but I could tell from all the responses that I hadn't given enough info. Thanks for your patience!

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I'm sorry you're struggling Matt.

I know the situation stinks and it's unfair and it hurts to see your kids suffering the consequences when they've done absolutely nothing to deserve it.

Just know you have support and love here while it all gets figured out.

It really does get better. Really. :-)


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Matt,

At this point it is business and you have to have your attorney be the bad guy. You cannot allow nice to interfere. I have had to deal with this in my recent past and this is what I suggest. You need to seek full custody with child support, seek alimony from your wife, seek full possession of the house. if you go for the whole thing you then have room to negotiate downward. The last thing they will expect is you seeking support from your wife. I would also look into seeking compensation from your wife for the grievous harm you suffered due to the vasectomy you suffered through after she indicated she was not going to separate or divorce you in the near future. See if your L can get a statement from your doctor indicating her response to this question. I know it sound counter to everything you want. remember, she is and will walk all over you.


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Hey Matt,
i'm sorry for all you're going through. LoisB is right, it really does get better but I know that probably doesn't make you feel better at the moment. You do have good support here, if you get a chance - check out a local divorce group for rebuilding, it really does help you to rebuild. I second that post above from Lifes Twists, let your L be the bad guy (you're going to get the blame anyway, you know this) My D went so smoothly because it went so fast - early on when the exH was feeling guilty about abandoning me I think, so he was totally agreeable, now that he's had time to think on it he's had a change of heart on the whole house thing. too late for that though. Hang in there, I feel for ya!


Me - 42
exH - 56
Married 10.5 years
Together 17
bomb dropped 1/6/14
signed papers 2/4/14
H moved out 2/22/14
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Thanks Heather!
You all have been a great comfort through all of this. Not sure where I'd be without you. Probably would have just given my W everything and only see my D14 every other weekend. Even now, after all I have seen and KNOW about MLC, I still have a part of me that just can't understand how my W could have changed so much that she can't even think about what is best for her own kids. My poor D19 is so freaked out by how her mother is wanting to act like her "friend" instead of her mother. Just more of the same. Don't get me wrong, I'm not surprised anymore or even angry or upset. It's just that when it comes to something as permanent and binding as the final decree, it just makes something I know will hurt my D's, make any chance of ever having anything but a bad R with my ex, will make it that much harder for even my W if she ever does come out of her tunnel to ever undo the damage she has caused, the craziness just takes on such a permanence. Like it or not my w is the mother of my kids. Some day she will be grandmother to my grandkids and will never be totally out of my life or my family.

At one point when my w was really deep in her depression she said she could just leave me and the kids, go somewhere on her own (just like her dad) and never once look back or feel a bit of guilt. I chalked it up to her depression but now, I wish that was what she had done. Disappeared from all of our lives and left us alone. It would have hurt, I'm sure. But we would have gotten on with our lives without the crazy. Without my kids being forced to have their grandfather in their lives to hurt them. To no longer feel safe even when dealing with your own family. To me family means everything. To my W it's just a word to describe the people who are related to you. I guess when she has been so deeply hurt by her own father, family meant something different, something dangerous. She probably sees nothing wrong with how she is acting towards her kids since it's not nearly as bad as her dad treated her and now he is wanting to make up for all that. It's her turn to be selfish and she can always make up for it later.

This time I'm not spinning, not thinking "How can she do this?" . This time I'm thinking it's time to take the gloves off and do everything in my power to stop my W from doing any more harm to me or those I love! When my W gets my response to what she wants in the final decree, she is going to go threw the roof! It will be the final nail in the coffin of our M and there will be no coming back from it. I gave her every chance to do what is right, not what SHE wants for her own selfish reasons. To poke her head out of the MLC well long enough to see that it's not all about her. That getting a D isn't just leaving me behind but tearing a family apart and hurting so many other lives. She can't see this, I know that now. But that doesn't mean I can't and that i will just let her do it.

I don't know why she is getting worse. Maybe it's that she isn't getting what she thought living on her own. Maybe it's because she has been letting her father run her life. Maybe she is still angry because I tried to save our M instead of just saying she needs to do what she wants or that I'm not just falling apart without her. Who knows and it doesn't matter one bit. There is no hope that she will come out of her MLC in time to save my kids from the damage she is determined to inflict in the quest to "find her joy". I accept this now. I don't and never will understand it (not having an MLC myself) but I accept it. I don't hate her, I'm not angry either. I tried my best to DB, give her space and time and even support but none of that helped. (may have even made things worse!). Time to think about what I want and what I think is best for those I am here to love and protect and raise into adulthood. The rest is up to God and in some part to just how deep my W is in her fog.

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Matt, be careful not to react out of any anger. During the first year of my situation my wife called the police on me multiple times. When that stopped working she got my oldest so confused and then got her to file for a restraining order on me. Our spouses are short of a full deck at this point. There is no telling what depression will cause them to do. What you cannot expect is kindness in return for doing something kind. Right now you have to do things in the best interest of your daughter and yourself, not out of spite. What I suggested is go for everything, but let your lawyer do it. If your lawyer won't then find a new one. Show your wife you have some back bone, that you will stand for what is right and you won't let her walk all over you. Make sure you keep your attorney fully informed. I found that my wife did not, as I suspect most MLCers won't. Make sure your lawyer will use this to your advantage. When the MLCer looses ground in a court situation it takes them completely by surprise and throws them off their game. Every step you take has to be cool, level headed and well thought out. if your attorney does not work with you and put in effort to prepare then you need a new one. I have had to learn this the hard way.

In terms of your daughter, does she see a counselor?
if not, I would get her into one right away. A letter on her behalf by a counselor goes a long way in court. Always keep in mind what is good for her first. Don't do anything that can be viewed as vindictive or selfish on your part.If you ever suspect their is any emotional abuse, physical abuse, drugs or alcohol abuse involved do not hesitate to get DCF involved. They are there to protect the child.


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Thanks LT,
Drugs and alcohol aren't something I need to worry about with my W at this point, at least not with her using them. I am concerned about my D14 as she will not only be going to a much larger school than she ever has but from past experience, my W will be working late quite often leaving her alone after school which is a bad time for getting into trouble! My W doesn't 'believe" in IC and has refused to agree to the girls going. It is her idea that D doesn't hurt the kids, it's all in how the parents behave. I think for my W that means how she thinks we should behave, not what I think.

When I went to my lawyer at first and we spoke about the case, he was sure it would be easy as I explained to him that my W was going to let me have the house, that she was still at home and contributing to paying the bills, etc. I explained to him that the number one thing for me was what was best for my D14 and the rest will be easy.Not sure where my W came up with me living in the home until my D was 18 came from (I'm guessing her father)and I wouldn't be asking for anything like my W's retirement which isn't a lot because she had agreed to my getting the house. All that has changed and now he needs to know if I am going for full custody and can't wait because my W has pushed forward way sooner than expected. His office just called and I really need to get back but I haven't spoken to my D yet. It will have to be tonight for sure.

I know I must be careful not to do anything out of spite and I really don't think I am. I just need to push for so much more than I had thought and that [censored]! Thanks LT! I will keep a level head through this!

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I'm sorry it's been a rough couple days. I don't have any advice, just support!

((((((Matt))))))


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Proof of OW 8/13/14-love note from her
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Thanks AT, your support really does help a lot. To top it off I got a registered letter notice from the IRS. Now I will need to pick it at the post office and see just what the damage is going to be!

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OK people not sure what to do!
I tried to talk to my D14 last night about where she wants to live but I just couldn't do it! I feel so bad for her! She just hangs out all day and reads and watches TV and texts. I told her that since she will be going back to school soon, we should do something fun this week. Go to amusement park or hiking, anything she wants to do. I told her to bring a friend and they can even stay over if she wants. So far I've gotten nothing back. Just a "Yeah, I'll think about it". I'm worried about it as over the last couple years her mom wouldn't let her friends come over the house and my D got used to not being able to have her friends come over. Looking back, I really wish I hadn't let my W have so much power! I should have just over ruled her but I let her get away with so much crap. I'm a little worried that my D14 may be more affected by things than I thought! She just stays up really, really late watching TV and on her phone and Kindle reading. Doesn't say much to me (I wish her sister was still around, she was much more open and talkative when she was here too). Much of this is normal teenager stuff but I know that she is unhappy about the D.

Maybe she senses that I need to talk to her about something I really don't want to? I just am dreading having to ask her about this but it is something that has to happen. I will not allow my W to just have her way when I don't think it is right. She had to have her "freedom" and doesn't care about how it hurts those around her and unless I find a way to stop her, she will just continue hurting my D14 as well.

Right now I really don't like my W at all. The hugeness of her selfishness has really been hitting home lately. Even before she left, for a few years she never seemed to care about much except her work and her friends from work, being a part of the "in" group at her job, working all day with these people and then texting with them all night (she once said when I asked why she felt the need to do that,that she didn't "..want to miss anything fun or important" that the other people at work were talking about) she is just so fixated on being part of the group at work but see's no problem in tearing her family, the group that really means the most in life, apart.

Well, I can't avoid this talk with D14 any longer. I will need to do this tonight when I come home from work for sure. I'm so worried about her. She has always been sensitive, much more so than my older D, and she is hurting inside, I know that. It's up to me to keep her steady as she sure as heck can't count on her mother. In fact, I'm going to ask her about going to C when I talk about where she would rather live. Whether her mom backs her going or not doesn't matter, it may be what she needs right now!

And to top it off now I have another (registered) letter from the IRS! UGH!!

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Matt,

You need to step back and take a deep breath. What you are describing is normal teenager behavior. Don't read so much into it. I have three teen daughters 19, 17, 15, so I speak with experience on this.

In terms of talking to your daughter, don't be surprised if she does not want to talk about it. If she does, I would frame it in a way that lets her feel she is participating in the decision. You could set it up by telling her that her mom is pushing the divorce forward as fast as possible. Let her know that the court system wants to know her living arrangements as part of the divorce. Tell her the different options. Tell her that you feel that she should be as comfortable in her choice as she can be and that she should not feel that she is choosing between either of you. That you will always be there for her. Let her know that she should let either of you know if you or your wife are putting any pressure on her to choose one of you over the other. Tell her when you need to let them know and that you are available to answer any question she may have.


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Hey Matt, hope the talk went well.
Seems that teenage girls do that, my niece just turned 13 and all she does is stay in her room, read, text, talk to friends on skype or plays xbox, really doesn't interact with people at home. Asked some others about this and it's completely normal behavior for teens now. lol when I was that age I was outside playing, riding bikes, hiking, we didn't have all that technology though. Hope you're doing ok. Remember to breathe, go jogging, walking, biking, hiking, hit a punching bag, do pushups, anything to get some of that pent up stress out.


Me - 42
exH - 56
Married 10.5 years
Together 17
bomb dropped 1/6/14
signed papers 2/4/14
H moved out 2/22/14
D final 4/4/14
Dropped the rope 5/17/14
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Matt, just read through what you're going through recently. Your story makes me grateful my sons are adults.

(Parenting girls, I think, is harder than parenting boys! But during a MLC, too? God!)


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01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
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Hi Nitty,
Apparently, my W has told my older D19 that she had "thought about" waiting to leave until D14 was out of school but decided not to (yeah, like an MLCer would EVER do anything like that for anyone else). The thing is My W hasn't been much of a mother since all this began about 3 years ago. There are some days that she seems like she knows that she hasn't been much of a parent but it never lasts. She just can't think of anyone but herself. And yes, it's very hard to parent while they are so lost. I tried and tried to my W to do stuff together as a family but just couldn't ever get her to. Add to that the "forgetting" to go to school meetings, pick up the kids after school, etc. and it makes life really hard.

Thanks for the kind words, Nitty. It's been a long, hard summer for sure!

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I agree that your d14 is probably going thru teenager stuff, but I think she probably needs someone else to talk with, like a C. Not sure when school starts for you all, but I talked with my kids c at school and gave her a heads up. She's going to do weekly check-ins with them, allowing them to talk if need be.

Maybe your d's c could approach it from new school/area for her and then be open with her for anything she may be struggling with. They aren't therapists, but it will allow your d a third party to confide in. Plus you can get around the W with her not wanting d to get IC, because a school counselor is there for her with anything she may need. ( I'm getting on my pedestal, this is what I'm going to school for smile )
Regardless, just like you, d needs someone to help her through this and her friends may not really give her the best advice.


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Proof of OW 8/13/14-love note from her
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Hi Matt,

Just letting you know I'm thinking about you.

(((((((hugs and love to you)))))))

Heather


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Good morning Heather!,
Thanks for that post! Couldn't have come at a better time as things aren't going very well at the moment. I tried a couple times in the last few days to talk to my D14 about custody. She just refuses to even talk about it. This is what it was like after B-day when her sister would ask about what was going on between her mom and I. I would tell them both that mom is unhappy and was going through a tuff time, etc. and my older D who was 17-18 at the time would ask deeper questions, my younger D would just say she didn't want to hear about it. Like ignoring it would make it go away. I really think my D14 is hoping that things will get better and that her mother will come to her senses. It breaks my heart! My W should know all about this as she went through D as a child herself! But to her it's different because, like all MLCers, what they are doing isn't the same as when OTHER people do the exact same things.

I can't put off talking to the lawyer. He really needs to respond to my W's filing. The only thing she would say when I insisted that we really need to talk was that she wanted to wait until school started and see how that went and how she feels then. I tried to tell her I was so sorry that she is in this situation. That she isn't being asked who she loves more or choosing either me or her mother. I only want what's best for and I really think that she is old enough to have a say where she lives and what she wants and not be locked into what a court order says she MUST do.

At this point I really think I need to do what I think is best. I just don't think my W even can be a good mother. Past experience has shown that she will work late almost every day and leave D14 home alone until late. That she feels that at 14 she is old enough to fend for herself and doesn't need to bother to cook meals. For the last few years she never would even make time to talk to her when she asked because she was always to tired or too busy. I'm going to tell my L to ask for primary custody with liberal visitation. If my W had just waited and we could have seen how things went once she was in her new school, which would have given our D14 a chance to get into some kind of routine before having to face that her parents are now D'd at the same time as she is having to go through so much other change, maybe I would have felt better about the 50/50, 7 days with me, 7 days with her mom that my W has wanted so badly from the start. But like a typical MLCer she can only think about herself and what SHE wants, never about what is best for anyone else.

My W has said that what she really wants is to be on her own. Well, she has that but now that's not enough. Now she must get the D right now. I'm sure when that doesn't magically make her happy she will find some new thing that she must have to make her happy! I'm more convinced then ever that she isn't getting what she thought she would from leaving. If she had she wouldn't be pushing things forward so quickly. I also think she thinks she can get whatever she wants as I've pretty much allowed her to do whatever she wanted for a long time. Well, not now. Not when it's about what is best for my D! So, I'll be telling my L to go ahead and ask for full custody today. I hope it's what's best for my D and the fact that my W only cares what is best for HER and not her D just seals it for me!

Thanks for the great greeting this morning! Really needed that hug!!

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Matt,

My 15 year old daughter acts the same way. I think they understand more than we give them credit for. I mostly think not talking is their way of showing us they feel robbed of what their older siblings got. They feel somehow that they have missed out on things. The best thing you can do is to keep positive, be consistent, show stability and give her a feeling of a safe stable environment. If you can, somehow get her a counselor. I would tell my lawyer that I want a counselor for her and her mom refuses. I would guess that your lawyer can come up with any number of legal avenues to force this. I am sure every kind of road block can be thrown up until your wife agrees to this. I would tell your lawyer you will drag this divorce out for years if need be unless your wife agrees to this.

Continue doing what is right for your daughter. Show that she comes first above everything else.


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Hi Everyone and happy Saturday!
Well, had an odd experience tonight. W called. She NEVER calls. For some background, I haven't spoken to my W about the IRS audit. The reason being she never had anything to do with taxes and she has a tendency to really freak out and I didn't want her freaking out and getting involved when all she would do is worry and give me grief. I figured I would send the IRS the info they asked for and wait until I heard back before I told her. Either that or bring it up with the lawyer. The last thing I needed was her making things even worse!

So she called to tell me she got a notice from the IRS about the taxes and she was really worried. She said it was addressed just to her at her new address. That is odd as I have been getting all the notices because my name was always on top and it was a joint return. First weird thing....she wasn't angry, wasn't giving me grief. She was actually calm and when I explained that I had already taken care of what they asked about she was very cool about the whole thing. I told her I didn't want to worry her and that I was waiting until I heard back from them before telling her as there is nothing that can be done until then. I also told her I had spoken to someone about a tax attorney we could get if we end up needing one! All she said was that I probably should have told her about it but in a (and this is the oddest part) NICE WAY! No anger. No telling me how it must have been all my fault. Very odd.

Next weird thing. She told me that she had been at a course all day with her friend from work (Continuing Ed. for her work) and she had just now gotten her mail and called right away. This is odd because for the last year or more she would NEVER feel it was any of my business where she was or who she was with. She told me what the course was about and it was something she had been looking into getting a special certification in last year. I asked her about that and she said that her work won't let her do that now because they have cut back on paying for courses and she would have to pay $5,000 out of pocket to do it. Again, she was being nice, telling me about her life, etc.

I told her that her mom had called and that she wanted our D14 to help her Monday and I wanted to give her a heads up. (D14 is with me but goes back to her place tomorrow). She said that she had gotten a call from her mom but she didn't answer because she was watching a movie and didn't want to stop to talk to her. OK, now she's telling me what she is doing, weird! She made some small talk about having ants and that her friend and her had been eating ice cream and spilled some and now there are ants every where. She also asked if I wanted to meet tomorrow so she can get D14 and was really open about when and where.

As soon as the talk slowed down, I made sure to be the one to say good-bye first (DB 101) and she said "See you tomorrow" in really nice way. So, suddenly my W is being nice. She was even nice about the IRS thing when I know if it had happened while she was living here she would have been screaming bloody murder! She talked about what she is doing and where she was. Again, she was like a teenager before and would rather die before explaining where she was or who she was with!

I know that this means nothing has changed. It's just a blip of being "decent" and she will be going back to to her old self soon. It was just so nice to have an actual convo. with her that didn't include her telling me how awful I am or why I should give her something she wants or how she had to leave me or spend the rest of her life sleeping on the couch and hating her life. She didn't disagree with everything I said, didn't act like it was a chore to speak to me, didn't ask for anything from me. She sounded more like my old W than she has in ages.

Part of me is glad. I'm also glad I was able to DB and end the call first. Part of me isn't and it just makes me miss my old W even more! Who knows why she was like this and I won't waste time any time trying to figure it out. Let's hope that maybe, just maybe, she is starting to no longer feel the need to blame me as much as she has been! One thing I can say...I'm starting to detach more for sure. I couldn't have had this convo. with her without freaking out or thinking it meant more than it does just a month ago. That's good. Now, if only I didn't have to fight her about D14's custody.......

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That's a good baby step! I'm happy for you. I like when they come out for a little bit smile

Keep being positive. Things will work out for you and your d.

More hugs and support!!


Atsbaby
M:36 H:35
T: 19 M:12
S:11
D:9
BD: 5/4/14
Proof of OW 8/13/14-love note from her
8/19 admits OW
8/22/14 files D w/o telling me
9/20/14 Says he wants to reconcile
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I like that term, "Blip of Decent." I'm going to steal it.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Happy to hear a decent conversation between you and ur W.

Maybe it will continue,,,,maybe not either way it was a good one.

Praying W and you are both being decent when its time to discuss custody of your D

Last edited by 2BHappy; 08/17/14 06:31 PM.

Me 43 ring off Oct 2014 (my ring back on Feb 2015)
H 51 (ring off 7/2013)
M 2007 T 1996
S 14
July 2013- H told me he was unhappy.....said he is staying for Son
Feb 18 2014 Found out about OW
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Well, didn't take long for W to go back to her old self!

W texts this morning. Said she read the notice and asks me for a copy of 2012 return so she can send it in. We spoke last night and I explained to her that it was already done, that I had worked hard to give them everything they wanted from 2008 until now. She said she understood. So, this morning she decides to just forget everything we talked about last night and ask me to make copies. It's like we never spoke, or worse, she doesn't trust me to take care of it. So, I text her that I already sent everything and I also get notices asking for stuff that I already sent but that I was told to ignore redundant notices. I ask her what the notice ID was. She sends a terse text with the ID. I tell her that it matches one I had already taken care of and if it would make her feel better, I would call and ask about notices sent to her as well as me. So, what do I get back from her? NOTHING. No response at all. Here I've spent so much time and effort on this, she said to me just last night that she was glad I had taken care of it because she had no idea where to even start getting the info and now she wants to get in the middle.

It doesn't help that the IRS is so screwed up that they are sending notices about stuff that already has been done but that's the gov't for you. What I don't get is how she can go from being so OK last night about this to now acting like we never spoke. I should have known the crazy would come back out to play. I'm willing to bet she spoke to her father (she talks to him every Sunday morning) and he told her not to trust me. That would be just like him. He loves to stir up trouble. The bad part here is that if she starts getting involved in this it can cause problems. I have enough to worry about with this, the last thing I need is my W getting involved and messing things up.

The least she could do is text back. See, this is one of the reasons I wanted to take care of this. My W can't handle this kind of thing. She will stress out about it. She will worry and worry and come up with ways that I am to blame. She won't do anything to help, she'll just find ways to make the process even more stressful than it already is. If this was happening before she left, she would be spending more energy worrying and stressing and complaining and doing NOTHING to help the situation at all. That is something I will not miss about her. She just has such a hard time coping with stressful things. Umm....isn't that what they say about people who have MLC's, that they have poor "coping" skills? Well, that describes my W perfectly. In fact, I don't think she has "poor" coping skills, I think she has ZERO coping skills!

So, I will now have to spend an hour on the phone just waiting to talk to someone at the IRS just because my W is too worried and won't just let me handle something that she has no idea how to handle. I should have known that she would worry and worry and start to spin. One good thing that I can see from this is that I now really see how whenever we had problems over the years, all my W would do is worry and complain while I was always the one who had to take care of things. She was never able to even help a little as she would just get stressed out and I would have to remain calm and take care of the problem. I allowed this to happen, of course. I was the "man", I was supposed to be the rock that took care of things. Yeah, right. If I ever have another R or M with someone else, I will no longer allow this. I want someone who is a partner and who will at least help when problems come up, not just make things worse by stressing and worrying and complaining. I'm seeing more and more how much I "settled" over the last 21 years. How I allowed myself to see only the good things about my W. How for most of our M, she made life harder, not better. Especially after her depression. Looking back I now see clearly how her inability to cope hurt all of us. It had much to do with my oldest D's "rebellious" years. Because I was always the one who had to deal with things, it held me back in my work (can't do my best when I had to always be taking care of everything), in my social life, in everything.

As I detach, things become clearer. No more putting W on a pedestal and seeing only the good. She is going to regret losing me. I can see this more and more. But I also see that I really was a good H. I tried so hard to be the best I could. I made many mistakes for sure but I also see that a lot of those mistakes were because of the stress of always having to be responsible. Because of the stress of having problem after problem laid on my shoulders because she couldn't face them. I will never go back to living like that.

Oh, well. At least I had one nice convo. with my soon to be ex wife! Oh, almost forgot...my BIL in another state has called me and left a message to call him. He is the family "scape goat", the bad one and is always in trouble with drugs or drinking. My FIL has disowned him and my W since reconnecting with her father has had the same attitude about him. When he heard about his dad having his cancer come back, he called to tell him how sorry he was and to see if he needed anything, etc. My FIL refused to speak to him and said to my W how he wishes he would just disappear from his life! Nice guy my FIL. I wonder what he is wanting? I haven't called him back yet as I don't see any good from talking to him as we hardly know each other. At the same time, I guess I should just to see what it is he wants. Not sure what to do there.

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More Hugs...(((((MATT)))))

I'd see what BIL is needing. It may be that he needs a friend since FIL is an @$$ and has taken your W to the dark side. I'd be there to support him as a friend/family, but I wouldn't get involved with anything!!


Atsbaby
M:36 H:35
T: 19 M:12
S:11
D:9
BD: 5/4/14
Proof of OW 8/13/14-love note from her
8/19 admits OW
8/22/14 files D w/o telling me
9/20/14 Says he wants to reconcile
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Oh, Matt. I'm sorry you've hit part of the rollercoaster that slowly goes up, with a quick drop on the other side- with a few twists and turns for you to endure.

I realize that when we see a part of our spouse we remember, we tend to attach those forbidden expectations. It is so hard not to.... but don't.

I know you knew where it was going to go next, and that you'd see a different side, as you stated, but I think that you saw her be rational hoping that she would let you handle the tax situation.

Matt, don't let her get you riled up! Of course she is going to react that way towards you. She has been terrible to you. She has a very long road ahead of her before she really starts to come around. I know you know this. It can be very difficult to really accept this. Knowing it and accepting it are two different things. I think you are doing a great job, Matt. I feel for you. She has not realized what she has with you. Maybe she never will. You can't try to fix these things.

I would just let it go. If she wants these things, send it to her. Maybe put a note on it, "Copy XXX was sent on XX/XX/XXXX." You already told her you were taking care of it. She knew that. She tried to re-engage the next day in MLC fashion. Don't do it, Matt. It was already addressed. If she wants to freak out, it is not your problem. I wouldn't even respond outside of passing along necessary information without emotion (I'd probably do it through the mail, but that's me).

It was wonderful you had the opportunity to have the nice convo with her! I think you did great! I also think your expectations are much less (atta boy!). You need to check out as soon as monster checks in.

You said your w has zero coping skills. I think that many mlcers are sent to this crisis, because they never had good ones to begin with. I think that plays one of the key factors in this. Most have childhood issues, and were never taught how to "cope" with them. Or, for whatever reason, just don't have coping skills. Add to it a lifetime of not coping with things, it gets overwhelming and any coping goes right out the window, and.... welcome to Midlife Crisis Land! Our lucky spouses get a free lifetime pass. It includes free family pack to Crazy Land! All are able to leave whenever they wish... they just have to exit through the Maze of He11.

Keep your head up, Matt! You are a great guy. She needs to bounce around for awhile in the pin-ball machine. Let her, you can't spot it.

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Thanks Mighty,
Even knowing that the monster was coming didn't stop the disappointment when it arrived. The problem I have with her getting involved with the tax sitch is that she will cause things to get out of whack. She will undo work that has already been done. Having two people who don't even speak to one and other try to address a complicated problem that could cost much money is just a stupid idea. She doesn't know what the heck she is doing but as an MLCer loves to do, she wants to stick herself in the middle! By sending something that has already been sent and addressed all she will do is restart the whole process only this time she will be the one who will have to get notices that make no sense and have to deal with all the fallout and I KNOW she won't be able to handle it. I am already so stressed out because of her running away from 26 years together. Because she can't seem to understand why she feels the way she does and needs to blame me.

I want to just get off the roller coaster now, please. I am at the breaking point with all that the pain caused by my W. Not just to me but to my D's, her mother, my family, everyone! Every time I take a step forward she finds a way to push me back down. It's like she wants to cause me pain. She wants to punish me and hurt me. My life is just so out of whack and she is the one who caused it to become like that. I'm finding out that I made mistakes on my taxes. Nothing that is really bad but stuff that happens. I'm trying to fix those mistakes and make things right but instead of only having to worry about dealing with the IRS, I now have to worry about dealing with her! At the same time I have to deal with the D and all that entails, making my job work so I can make enough to live, making sure my D14 is doing OK through all this crap and the D, my D19 is needing money help but I can't help her because of what my W did and I have to get my home sorted now that my W has taken so much of the furniture and there is "stuff" everywhere and no place for it!

I just didn't need her getting involved. She seemed to understand this at first but now won't listen. Since her MLC she seems to always do exactly the opposite of what I ask. In this case it can really hurt me!

Sorry about the rant. I just need to get going and deal. Thanks for the kind words, Mighty. Nice to know I'm not alone out here!

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It is really stressful stuff. This is what I am learning: Even after I got off h's rollercoaster, I find that I am on my own emotional rollercoaster. It has been a few months since I've taken that ride with him. (Minus the nuke week- I don't know what I was on then).

Even if I have no contact and nothing happens, I am a whirlwind of emotions. This weekend, for example, I was on a road trip with d13 and my niece (One Direction concert). The girls were in their own world, and I had lots of time by myself. I felt, contentment, sadness and despair, anger and rage, loneliness, happiness, independence, grief- all within short periods of time. I had not interactions with h- at all. I had no idea what he was doing and didn't even think about what he was doing. It was about me and not him. This was the path he put me on. My own craziness. I get it, Matt. You want off that roller coaster. It is better when you do, but realize you will probably have your own to ride. The good part about it is that it is YOUR ride then. It is about your emotions and feelings, needs and wants. You will then focus on you. It stinks, don't get me wrong, but this is the work being done. This is how we get better, stronger, wiser.... better.

Dealing with the IRS is NO FUN and can be very intimidating. Look at the bigger picture: it will be taken care of. Whatever the problem is, you can handle it. You will find a way to resolve it and move on from it. You can't change or control her actions, inactions, or reactions. Don't even think about them or what they may be. I think the more you engage her or keep her in the dark, the more she will react. Maybe you could email her updates and keep with the facts? Its a tough sitch. That is my hardest part these days is communication. Quite frankly, I don't want any. I want to run the other way! H texted me this morning- I wanted to run right out of my house away from my phone. How funny would that look? Me screaming bloody murder running down the street. "What happened? What are you running from?" A TEXT MESSAGE asking if s went to practice.

You got this, Matt. You will find happiness. The taxes sitch- yup, what a pain, but just handle it and know it is not going to break you. Just another bump in the road. Keep moving forward.

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Hi Mighty,
Hope the concert was fun! My W was really into One Direction (big teen age music fan) and even our D14 would make fun of her about it (in a nice way). I think her taste in music reflected her MLC, lots of Avril L. and "angst" type stuff. I remember one song she would play over and over "Anything but ordinary" by Avril L. all about how she wanted anything but a "normal" life, even if she got her heart ripped out! Sounds like Avril was in her own MLC when she wrote that one! LOL

Had to speak to my lawyer today. Had to tell him that my D14 can't make up her mind about whether she wants to live with me or her mom and is avoiding the subject. He said unless she says she wants to live with me the court will do pretty much what we have been (7 days with me, 7 days with W) and if W and I can't agree that D14 should have a lot of leeway and not be "forced" to go to her place or spend a holiday or go on vacation, etc. with either of us, which W has said she wants to do (force her that is), than the court will order D14 to do so. Fallback in my state is unless both "partys" agree to open time then they will make D do exactly what my W wants. I had hoped that my D14 would say she wants to live with me in the only home that she has ever known but be able to go see and even live with her mom whenever she wanted. Hard to explain to a 14 year old that by agreeing to saying she wants to live with me she will still see her mom but just not be locked into what the court says she MUST do. All she thinks about is that she is having to choose me over her mom or vice versa. All my D14 would say was she wanted to see how doing things the way we have worked during school. Of course because her mom had to push things it is going to be hard to hold the D from getting finalized. Although there are property issues that I want changed, the biggest being that my W wants to just let me live in our home until our D14 turns 18 and then sell it and give me half. At the same time she wants to not have to split her retirement money, get more than half of the "stuff" including all the antiques and the best furniture. All I want is what's best for my d. I really think that what's best is her to live with me, especially when her mom is acting the way she is. W has totally abandoned our older D19 who really needs our help because my W is angry at her because she didn't want to live her. I know she will leave our D14 alone most every night working late, will want to leave her with her "friends" when she has to go out of town for work. I really truly think the only reasons she wants to even have custody at 50/50 is because she doesn't want to pay CS and because she is afraid of what people would say if she didn't get custody!

I called the IRS about the notice that my W got and guess what? They said exactly what I told her they would say...that she should just disregard the notice as the info they need is already in the system and in "pending" status. I texted my W and told her this and gave her the name and ID # of the cust. service person I spoke to and even had the CS person make a note on my W's file that they were called today and told to disregard the notice. I told her to feel free to call and ask herself if she wanted but all that she would be told is what I just said. At the end I told her that I would be sure to let her know as I get more info from them. I got back from W "K thanks" in a text.

I don't know anymore what I really want in regards to my soon to be over M and W. The only reason I want to have any kind of R with her at all is because of our D14. If not for her, I would just totally cut myself off from my W, finalize the D and never speak to her again as long as I live! I don't like who she has become MLC or whatever the cause. She destroyed our M because she was unhappy but can't say what I did to make her so. She pushed for D because her father told her it was the "right" thing to do and she can't say no to him about anything (I think out of fear he will just abandon her again like he did his only son). She has totally just stopped helping her own D19 like she doesn't matter, again I think because her father has told her too just let her fend for herself. I know she is in crisis. I know she is in real pain and doesn't know how to make it stop and has decided to blame me and her M, maybe because she doesn't feel "love" for me anymore or maybe because it's the biggest change she can see to make (something she once told me soon after B-day). Maybe because her father, the man she has wanted back in her life, to love her, has told her that if she does this he will respect her for it. Who knows? But if she were ever to come out of this fog. If she ever were to realize that the problems weren't with me or her M, I don't know that I could ever just allow her back in my life. So much pain, so much craziness. So much hurt. I guess I really have come to realize that my M, my old life is so totally and truly gone. All because of the whim of a 48 year old person who is so damaged she can't can't stand being in her own skin.

I'm sure this is just a phase. Part of the cycle of dealing with the end of my M. I just have to keep that in my mind, feel the emotions and then let them go and move forward. I guess the good news is I'm not "spinning", not all angry. Progress I think. I know I will get through this and be OK. I know my D14 will do the same. I think more than anything it's the realization that my old W is gone forever and I REALLY loved that person. Time to bury her and move on.

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OK, I have a question for everyone here.

Yesterday was "exchange the D14 day". Instead of doing it yesterday, she stayed here an extra night so she could be picked up by my MIL to spend the day helping her out. No problem. So, I got home today and my D14's dog was still here which is odd as she always takes her wherever she is staying. I text my D14 and ask if she wants me to drop off the dog at her mom's on my way to work. D14 says no, the dog can stay with me until she comes back on Sunday. Again, no problem. A few min's ago, a car pulls in my drive and it's my MIL and D14. I go out and ask if she came to get the dog after all? My MIL says no, W called and told her that D14 needs to stay with me another week because she thinks it is best if D14 stays with her for the first week of school since my W lives really close to the school, so D will stay here until Sunday and then spend the next 2 weeks with W!

OK, W didn't ask me about this or even mention it to me. She didn't ask if this was what I thought was best or if I wanted D14 to stay with me or her for the first week of school. My W just felt this was what she wanted and just did it! Not only that, she didn't even text me that my D was coming back tonight! Nope, just sent her here assuming not only that I was OK with this but that I would be ready for D14. When my MIL told me why she brought my D back I said "Would have been nice if W had told me about this ahead of time" and my MIL got this pained look on her face and said "I think she just found out herself". No, she didn't just "find out"! She has known when the first week of school is for a long time. This is something she planned, didn't tell me or ask me how I thought about it, she just didn't bother letting me know!

I'm really not happy about this! First of all who is she to just assume that I was OK with this. Next, why would she just do it and not even let me know that she was coming back or ask if I was OK with it! Am I wrong to be so ticked off at my W about this? Don't get me wrong, I love having her and will take as much time as possible with her. But for my W to make this decision on her own and not even bother to tell me, let alone get my OK I think is just rude and not something she can do without my OK!

I really want to text my W and ask why she decided to do this without my input and it is just common courtesy to let me know what was going on and that my D14 was coming to stay another week!

Am I over-reacting here? Should I just let this go and just not bother texting my W about how she went about this? I know I'm more than a little peeved at my W right now and in a bit of a "dark place" because of the IRS stuff and having to talk to my lawyer and all. I just don't want to cause more trouble because little Miss MLC thinks she can make a decision like this all on her own! Thanks guys! I don't want to make a mistake that makes thing harder moving ahead!

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Matt,

DISCLAIMER: Possibly because I'm currently raising awareness to my "lack of boundaries", this is where I see some potential future problems.

If there is an existing agreement of visitation, and one parent goes all "willy-nilly" at the last minute and changes things without a mutual agreement beforehand, and there is not a boundary/consequence in place, this will be exactly what your future will look like over, and over.

Do not let this go. Be firm, but calm.

Might be too late to do much this time, but going forward, set the expectation. One example it could look like is, "when W relinquishes her visitation time and D goes back to Matt, W does not automatically get Matt's time in place of that, unless Matt agrees to the switch. If Matt does not agree, but D is brought back, then W loses both times". For instance.

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Hi Matt, I'm going to take the other side of this one. I like the informal child sharing arrangement that I have with my W. If you push too hard you will get a written Court Order where every moment of your child is set out in the Order, I hate these kind of child time Orders, and I think if they can be avoided do so. What your W is thinking makes sense. If W lives by daughter's school, it does kind of make sense to let her have daughter during the first week. The poor communication by W is inexcusable, this is what you should address. But as Shining mentioned, keep cool, calm and composed. Good luck.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

“The strongest of all warriors are these two — Time and Patience.” War and Peace
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Wet, yep, I've seen it work both ways. It depends on the co-parent you're dealing with... Some are reasonable and there is more wiggle room for flexibility.

Others, you give an inch....well, they take the grandfather clock.

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Matt,
Does the court system in your state have a mediator for your daughter? Maybe you can request one? Your d may feel more comfortable speaking with someone like this. They represent the kids and act on their behalf as their lawyer. Maybe this will help her have some input without feeling like she has to speak to either one of you about it. These people work with kids and are usually really good and understanding. Also, they are usually really good at picking up on any bs. Just a thought...

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Once again, Matt, I am SO GLAD I do not have minor children during this awful MLC episode. Thank you, GOD, for that blessing.

I am sending good thoughts your way, Matt, that you will decide to do the best thing for your kids and yourself in the long term, whatever that decision may be.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Matt,

How long are you going to roll over for her?

You need to regain a set of B#!!s and stand up for yourself. Unless you respect yourself, no one will, especially her.

Sorry ladies for the strong language.

I would email or text your wife and let her know that it is her decision to forfeit a week with her daughter if she chooses to. Let her know that you do not plan on changing the visitation schedule at this time. Let her know that she needs to work these changes out with you at least 48 hours in advance or will have to accept what you decide to do. That she does not have the right to unilaterally change the schedule. Let her know this is non negotiable unless discussed through the lawyers with the outcome being a parenting plan or parenting order.


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Well, I replied to everyone last night before going to bed and somehow it never showed up here....I hate when that happens! I'll try again.....

Wet, The informal arrangement is exactly what I think is best for my D14. In fact that is what my W and I talked about doing. The thing is, when she filed her "final decree", she had every second of every day mapped out. She even had which holidays D14 would spend with who, that the court had to be notified 3 months ahead of time before we could go on vacation, where D would go to school, where she could go (there is a provision that D14 can't leave either the county I live in or the one W lives in!) on and on. This is one of the reasons why I'm more than a bit PO'd about the fact that my W decided all on her own without even bothering to text me about it! It seems clear that my W is more interested in what's best for HER at any given time, not what's best for D14!

In principal, I agree that it's not a bad idea for D14 to be at her mom's for first week of school. One problem I have is that my W made sure that our D went to a school near HER. It is a form of manipulation to get D14 more interested in living with W. The way my W has been acting, I KNOW that she isn't thinking of what's best for our D, only what's best for HER. It's wrong to just assume that this arrangement is OK with me, that I am ready and able to keep her for an extra week now and am willing to go 2 weeks without her here after. She needs to understand that if she wants to get what SHE wants the least she can do is act like an adult and talk to me about things before she decides what we both are willing and able to do!

I have allowed my W from the start of all this to get what she wanted. Of course one of the reasons was because she had made agreements with me (like my getting the house) that have now just disappeared. Another reason was because I had hope that just maybe she would see that what she was doing was a mistake and maybe at least slow down and not be so quick to push the D forward. I came to DB in the hopes that I might be able to save my M. Now both those things no longer seem to apply. So, now I find myself in a position where I'm already at a disadvantage because of what I already have allowed my W to do. I certainly don't want her thinking I'm just going to roll over and let her have her way going down the road.

I can see what's coming. My W is going to leave my D14 alone at home when she is staying there most nights until late. She doesn't seem capable of thinking of anyone or anything but what she wants. I really truly believe that my D living with me is what's best but my W won't do that. No, she is too worried that she will have to pay CS and that I will "turn D14 against her and make her hate her" which is what my W has said her mother did with her father (although this is new. All her mother did was react to the horrible things her father was doing but now my W seems to want to change history to make her father a "victim").

I really hate that she has forced this on everyone. The last thing we need is to let her think she is allowed to make decisions without even bothering to let me know ahead of time! Am I wrong here? I know that I'm not in the best state of mind to think clearly. I'm also kind of tired of having to always think about what my W is thinking or if she will react this way or that. What is the "right" DB technique for the situation at hand, go dark or have contact, having to be careful and "validate" her feelings (no matter how crazy), etc. while she just keeps running and destroying everything! She is trying to erase the last 26 years! She even wants to change her name after 21 years of marriage and have a different last name than her kids because "it sounds better" (I'm willing to bet this last one came from her father!). Nothing I have done, no matter what, has slowed her down one bit.

Looking back my W has been acting like a spoiled child for a long time. Always wanting her way and throwing tantrums when she didn't get it. It's like this D is the ultimate tantrum. One where I can't just ignore the crazy. I have very little doubt that once all is said and done my W will regret what she has done. She will someday come to find that she made a mistake and just getting a D won't suddenly change everything and she will be happy and "find her joy". Cold comfort knowing that in the meantime she doesn't seem to care who gets hurt.

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Matt, I have to agree with Shining in that if this isn't addressed now, it can become a pattern. I just mean in the sense of communication. She absolutely should have let you know about the change. I don't see any harm in letting her know, calmly, that visitation changes need to be discussed, not assumed.


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Hi Matt,

I see you've been on roller coaster quite a bit.
W- good, bad. D - mother?father? (obviously not comfortable being put in position to choose. very hard for children regardless of whether upset w/parent or not) IRS ...

I agree with Shining, mleigh4. I think that since your W is 'all over the place' that your need some structure re: her.

These MLCers are 'chameleons' - it's hard to keep up with their changing moods & emotions. In sitch(s) where order or some sort of structure is possible, it may be a good idea to implement since there is little else you can control with them.

Take care, p.


pbetra
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M: 15 yrs (in 2014)
BD: 6/03/2014
Infidelity ('known' from July 2014)
Denied PA Feb 2015
2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact.
Back briefly 2017 (after family death)
Separated 2017

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Hi pbetra, nice to hear from you! And thanks to everyone who posted.
I really do think you are all right on the money with my having to nip this in the budd right here, right now. Last night my D14 comes to me and says that she thinks she should go back to her mom's house on Friday instead of Sunday to get ready for school that starts on Monday. I don't understand what she thinks she can get done there that she can't get done here. I ask her and she just says that she has to be in school on Monday and wants to have which clothes she is going to wear and all her school stuff ready ect. I tell her that if she does that it will be even longer until I get to see her again. I than just outright asked her "Do you want to just live with your mom during school?". She got a little upset and said no, she just wants to make sure all goes well her first couple weeks. I know that my W has been manipulating her to want to stay with her because W was so afraid (she says but you know about believing what MLCers SAY!) that D14 will hate her because w was the one who wanted the D (I know that since her father has come back in her life she is now saying that the reason she didn't have a R with him was not because he did the awful things he did which she now doesn't seem to remember but because her mother "made" her hate him). I know that she has been telling D14 that she can sleep later when she lives with her, that all her new friends will be there, that she lied to my D and told her that if she went to a different school closer to me, that she would have to get up an hour earlier which just isn't true! My W was so worried I would manipulate my D but now I'm the one NOT manipulating her! So, later my D come to me and says she would like to get her hair cut, needs contacts and wants to go to Marshalls since she has a gift card from there to get some new clothes for school. Now, the problem is if she leaves Friday, we just don't have time to do all that. I tell her this and she says well, I guess I'll have to get mom to do it. Umm...could it be that she is learning to play her mom and me against each other to get what she wants? She also knows that while I'm not able to spend much money her mom makes $8,000 a month and can afford a lot more than me (although you would never know it from how W acts like she is penniless!). So I end up telling my D that I'll take Thursday off from work and we can get her hair cut, go to Marshalls and at least see how much her contacts are. Maybe this way she won't think that if she doesn't stay with her mom I can at least help her out somewhat!

On a good note (I really need some good things right about now!) my D19 called last night and invited me to come to her place (lives with her BF for now) for dinner. She said that she doesn't have any hours at work for the rest of the week and misses me but can't afford the gas to drive here. I told her that her sister is here and she could come too and she was all for that. So, on Thursday D14 and I will go and get her ready for school and then go have dinner with her sister. That is a good day I think.

I am going to either text my W about D14 wanting to come back on Friday and add something about her needing to let me know ahead of time if she wants to change custody arrangements or tell her in person when I drop my D off at her place. The more I think about it the more Shi!!y I think it was to just do it and not have the decency to even send a text to just let me know! But then again, she hasn't acted like a "decent" person in a long time! For the first time in awhile I am back to thinking that I want my W to just fail, to find out just what a mistake she is making (has already made, really) and to fall flat on her face. I had been at the point where I was saying every day "I hope my W finds the happiness she so wants" to try and help me relax and detach. Now I'm back to being angry and thinking she needs to get what she deserves for destroying all we worked for for 21 years...no "joy", no "happiness", no satisfaction. Just loneliness, pain and an empty life! (Man, that sounds mean it's how I feel right now!)

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Don't feel bad for your feelings right now it's impossible to kept your thoughts like mother Theresa all the time.

21 years is along time to have built a life together and then have someone throw it away. It hurts a lot on so many levels. Allow yourself to feel it

Sounds like d14 is just using this sitch to satisfy her teenage whimsy.

Focus more on yourself and your hobbies. You kids will also find you more attractive the more you are into your hobbies


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M 39
H 35
D5,D4
M 4
T 9
ILYBNILWY 5/18/11
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Matt, Brook is right.

I can give you an example. My s17 has been having a VERY difficult time with everything. We were all sooooo close, and he would hang out w me and h all the time. H leaving really rocked his world. He is an honor student and started failing most of his classes (including PE and he's an athlete). He stopped participating in things, became sooo moody and negative, and would just sit in his room.

When I would hold him accountable for things, he would get really upset. Around May, he started trying to use h against me. When he was mad, he would call h to come get him. This stopped after h disclosed his "double life" and s17 no longer contacted him like this. S also became much more upbeat and positive (ironically- but because he said he can now move on and will no longer stay with his dad). So since he hasn't done anything with h since June, he can no longer use him as an escape, although he hasn't needed it.

Last week, the night before d13 and I left for our trip, s17 was having a fit about something. Then he tried to get into it that he wanted to stay home alone, and since his recent behavior showed he wasn't responsible enough, it wasn't going to happen. I would have allowed him to stay with his friend, but he was way to disrespectful to me at that point to give him an option. He was so mad. He tried it again: "I'll just go stay with Dad." I totally called his bluff (thank God for DB!) I very calmly said, "OK." It was silent. His eyes got so big and he was surprised. I just walked away, and needless to say, he did not call his dad, but he did stay with my brother.

Didn't mean to hijack, just wanted to make the point to be careful. That's the thing with mlcers, they act like teenagers, because teens have a tendency to be very self-serving. Even the best, sweetest kids want what they want. Sometimes they try to play us. I think it's normal. It is how they are figuring out the world and how people work. They are becoming more independent and curious about the real world and people. I think it is somewhat healthy for them to have different interactions with people to see where they fit in and how others will react. Just be careful. Keep it simple and to the point. Don't give an emotional reaction. Plus, your d is very confused right now. She is watching you closely. The more confident and comfortable you appear, the better she will feel. You want her to have that option of stability. It will help her with her own confusion.

And aside from that, kids are so thinking about other things, like getting ready and how they will look. Where it will be cool to hang out. Don't take it personally. Eventually she will remember where she feels comfortable and with whom she feels comfortable.

The joys of parenting teens- (all while being married to one!)

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Hey Matt,

I hope dinner went well with your ds tonight.

I don't have any teenagers myself, but I've worked with them! I agree with the ladies above. Let your d see you confident and as being some place safe for her to go. I know youre pressured with the L and courts about where she's going to live and all of that, but let her figure it out on her own. She feels the pressure of picking parents as well as starting a new school. That's a lot for a teen. She wants to focus on her life and get settled to where she feels most comfortable.

Don't push her and she won't fight and resent you. Let her see for herself how W is manipulating. She'll pick up on that. Be her father and support her no matter what she chooses. Just like the MLCer, it's not always about us.


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T: 19 M:12
S:11
D:9
BD: 5/4/14
Proof of OW 8/13/14-love note from her
8/19 admits OW
8/22/14 files D w/o telling me
9/20/14 Says he wants to reconcile
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Wow, thanks everyone,
Much has happened since my last post (the board was down for a long time). Yesterday I got a text from W. It said that D14, who I took just a few months ago to get her eyes checked and contacts for the first time, failed her eye test for school. The tone was like how could I let this happen and how D hasn't been happy with her vision since she went. My W was asking when her eye test was and how she needed to go back and get re-tested before school starts (Monday!) and what am I going to do. So, I called the eye dr., scheduled D14 to have a follow up appt. today, arranged to get off of work to take her. I text my W back all this and the date of the last eye test. So, W texts back that she doesn't think they got her script right and still all upset. I text her that they were really good about it, were fitting her in ASAP and it may be that they gave her the wrong lenses when we ordered them, who knows. About 1/2 hour later W texts suddenly all nice and saying that she wants to be sure D can see the board for her AP classes and, again like before, a smily face!

So, I took off work today, took D to get her eyes checked and her script changed a lot, maybe because of a growth spurt. D than asked to get her hair cut so I took her for that. While she was there I decided to text my W so she would know. Tell her about the change and that she is trying a different lens. So, I get OK, SMILY FACE from W. Then a text asking how much it cost (could it be she was going to offer to pay?, No, no way!) I text her it was free and that I was getting D a hair cut. Again, she texts right back about good that it was free and say THANKS (she never thanks me!). After hair cut D wants to go get clothes at Marshalls and also asks if we can go pick some things up from her mom's place that she needs for tomorrow. No problem but since I know how I feel when my W just goes into my home I decide to tell my W ahead of time just so she knows (maybe she will get the hint that is the right thing to do). Just got an OK back. I guess she can be nice when I do things that she would have had to do herself if I didn't.

Had a good day with D14 and tonight we went out to eat with my oldest D19. Had an adventure, we got lost getting there but we had fun. Dinner was really fun and my D14 really opens up when she's around her sister. Went to a cool place and D14 loved it. All in all a really good night.

My D14 said something really weird today. We were in the car on way back from her mom's. A song came on the radio about a guy who asks his GF's father if he can marry his D. The father says no, never. My D laughed and said that was me. I told her that it would have to be a really great guy before I'd say yes about her and she asked if I asked her mom's father. I told her the truth. That her mom's father wasn't in the least bit interested in what his D was doing, much less who she married. That I only met him once in the 4 years we were together before we married and he just never even bothered to talk to his D, so I didn't think I needed or he cared if I asked. She looked at me and said "I wouldn't mind if you got remarried some day". I asked her what she meant. She said "I think it would be great if YOU were the one who was asking mom if she was "alright" instead of her being the one who broke up and getting to act like you're all hurt because of her leaving you. I'd love it if you went to her and said "Are you OK" all concerned because you were getting married to someone else".

Whoa, where the heck did that come from? I never act like I'm sad or talk about what's going on between her mom and I unless she brings it up. I did get upset when I had to tell D14 that her mother had filed and how I really tried to make things work. But I was more upset because I felt I let HER (D14) down and I never wanted her to have to deal with the stuff that comes with D (like having to spend holidays with one parent one year and another the next, moving from place to place, etc.). My W has told me that she is so afraid that D14 will blame HER and be angry at HER because she was the one to file. When she was angry once she said she knows how it works, I'll be all upset and D14 will feel sorry for me (like W did for her mother) and that is manipulation. This was when she accused me of wanting to turn her D against her (projection anyone?). I now am wondering if my W is asking my D about me when she comes back from staying with me. Maybe asking if I'm all upset or blaming her or something like that? I'm not sure. I just laughed it off when she said it today and said that I have no plans to marry anyone any time soon.

Not sure what to make of this interaction. My D19 thinks her mom is acting like a 15 year old and is really not happy with her at all but D14 hasn't really spoke at all about things other than to say when I said I tried everything I could to keep our M together, she said "Maybe there wasn't anything you could do".

Any one have any thoughts on this? I always thought kids at her age, at least at the beginning, want the parents to stay together. What my D14 said really caught me a bit off guard.

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Hi, Matt, glad to hear you had a great day with your girls! And that W seems to be less of a blankety-blank lately. You deserve a break from the anger, for sure.

Regarding your daughters and their thoughts on your marriage, I remember when my own parents D, I was 18. My mother asked me my thoughts before filing... And I told her I wanted her to file. I love them both, equally. My dad had some demons he battled with alcohol. He was never mean, never cheated, never fought... But he was irresponsible, depressed, lost his job, and we were losing our house....my mom was in terrible pain. All I knew at the time was I wanted her to stop hurting.

Almost the same "bandaid" theory of the ow or om, the only focus for her was on making the pain stop. D seemed logical because in her mind, dad was the reason for her unhappiness. But even at 18, there was NO WAY I knew what that would look like in real life.

The men my mother dated after the D were weirdos. She did eventually remarry. But I regretted telling her to D for years and years. Not that she made the decision based solely on my answer, but I still felt bad for encouraging it after I saw that it didn't fix everything as I thought it would.

It is very uncomfortable watching one's own mother acting like a teenager. Teens don't want to stand out negatively, they want to be like everybody else.....and everybody else's moms are not acting this way, so it's embarrassing. It's also difficult to see their mother hurting you, behaving irrationally, and clearly, not be the stable person she should be as a parent.

IMHO, your D wants you to be happy. When she's with you, she imagines you with someone who treats you like the special man you are. Because she wants that for you. All she knows now, is that the situation is hurtful and difficult. And she loves you.

So, back to the question, I do believe it's often natural for teens to not encourage parents to get back together. In that moment. But they don't know yet how it will change things for them going forward.

It's a whole new set of obstacles. Hypothetically, if you remarried, she may not like the person you choose as her new step-parent. She may not like how it feels to actually have to share her daddy-time with a new person. She may not like step siblings if there were any....she can't see this stuff now. She has a beautiful image of all things happy and good for you. That says a lot about you.

But I wouldn't put too much weight on her opinion regarding M or D. Take the beautiful picture she paints in her mind, of you remarried to the most perfect imaginary person alive, as a sign of how much she loves you.

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Hey Matt. We lI've thay song. S went against my musical wishes and is a true top 40 kid.

Your d14 reminds me a lot of my ss15 (16 in a week so scary!). He is very perceptive and picks up on a lot that is unsaid. Your w may very well be probing your d but d can pick up on your pain whether you verbalize it or not.

Ss15 said something like JG wants to fix things so we can all be a family but dad is so different now. I just don't know if it is meant to be. He said that to his mom who told me.

I think in a way he was letting me off the hook or acknowledging that he knew things were beyond my control. Your d14 is processing this in her way and making sense of what she sees. Sounds like she just wants her dad to be happy. It is a testament to the relationship you have built with het.


Me 44 H 42
M 10 T 12 (at time of BD)
Ss 20 16
S11 (special needs)

BD 9/13 H "unhappy for years" moves to seperate bedroom
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Thanks for those posts. I got a little teary reading them. I do want to respond but I need to get to work and I just realized something.....yesterday was my anniversary. 21 years. I was so busy with my D's and doing things with them I totally forgot what the date was! Here I was so worried about whether or not to even acknowledge the day to my W and it passed without my even being aware!

Knowing my W, she probably didn't even remember what day we were M (she would forget often over the years. I would tease her and say it was supposed to be us MEN who forget that kind of stuff, not her!) or even think about it. She's too busy thinking about herself to think of anything else. I guess it's a good sign I was able to do this, that I have a life apart from my W. How sad that you can devote 21 years to someone and have it mean so little.

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Aw, Matt. Your Ds seem very grounded and loving. As JG says, it's a testament to your love and devotion to them. You sound like a great dad and keep being that rock for your girls. We just don't know what the future holds do we? And the reality is that we never did. Isn't that weird when you really think about it.

My older 2 say they would love for me to marry someone who is good and really cares about them. Gut freaking buster. They know their dad loves them- he's just strange. My D9 always says (and I couldn't help but chuckle) that," mommy, no maître woman would ever date Daddy." I just tell her that her dad loves them a d is going they something. They no longer ask if he will get better. When they did, I just said that I didn't know. It's the same with your stbx. You don't know what she evolve into.

Have a great day of work! Focus on being the best man and dad you can be. You do have some incredibly insightful, helpful posts to others.



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Thanks Shining, Julie and Georgia!
All my adult life since having kids my # one hope and fear has been can I be good enough for them. I have always been able to overcome setbacks because I knew that if I failed, I would also be failing them. I remember holding my oldest D right after she was born and thinking that every decision I make for the rest of my life will shape who this person becomes. That if I mess up it's not only me who will pay the price but her as well. It changed me more than anything that I had ever experienced in my life.

Over the years I have always made sure to be there for them. When my W became depressed and I had to take care of more and more, I did it because I was doing it for them. When my oldest went through her "rebellious" period and she wasn't easy to love, I knew that how I dealt with her at any given moment could make the difference between her getting through this time and succeeding or going so far off course she may never be able to get back on track and made sure that whatever I said or did I did out of love for her, not because I was angry.

This is part of why I was so shocked and hurt when my W bombed me. Here was a person who knew first hand what D can do to a child. Who at 47 years old still wasn't "over" her own parents D and she's saying things like "D doesn't hurt kids, it's how the parents act after" and "We all hurt our kids, they'll get over it". Who no longer seemed to be able to think about anyone else but herself, not even her own kids. Here I had spent the last 18 years trying so hard to do the right things and she wants to break up the family and tear her kids from the only home they have ever known for what? Because she was "unhappy" and wanted to "find her joy". It was like she had become someone else, someone I don't much like and was blaming ME for her becoming that way!

Thanks for the kind words everyone. Sometimes it just seems like the world I thought I was living in before B-day has just become something totally different and the things that I always believed (and thought my W shared that belief) are just no longer possible in a society where M is no longer as important as "self fulfillment" and it's so easy to just have a "crisis" and walk away before you can even get a chance to wake up and realize you're making a mistake. Over and over I read about people who have walked away from long M's and end up waking up a year or two later and realizing what a huge mistake they made. By then it's too late. Too late for them and the kids and all the people who they hurt in the process. Just like all of us here on this board, I never thought I would be one who had to deal with that!

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