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I just had the insight at the end of my last thread that a lot of MLC venom might arise from their fear.

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Really wink who woulda thunk it.

It's anger from fear, all of it. grin


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Just took me awhile to get that one!!

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Hey Bea,

Some of us are slower than others! wink But we cross the finish line somehow.

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Fear of what life would be WITHOUT YOU !!!! Fear of living without you... Fear of losing you... It is part of this madness.. Which is why they are oblivious to the mess they cause.. the hurt their departure creates. they feel the same pain. the confusion of whith and without.. wanting it and not wanting it.. whatever " it " is..
I remember you mentioning that your ex talks like YOU AND YOUR KIDS abandoned him.. My ex do the same thing.We didn' t leave him, he left us ( but won' t let us go ).. like your MLCer..
I don' t think it is all about this fear but I believe it is a HUGE part in a MLCer dilemma.

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I agree exquist. My wife still refers to it as our marriage when she has had a confrontation with my mother and when it comes to our kids she still says to keep things within our family meaning just the 5 of us. Yet, she is the one trying to break it all up. In March she called me because she was having money problems. I asked her why she was calling me and she responded that I was the only one she had. She has 4 siblings and both parents, yet I am the only one she has. I think the fear is a symptom of their madness, along with memmory loss, indifference to loved ones, multiple personalities, etc.


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What are they fearful of? Losing the LBS? Then why did they leave in the first place? I don't think my ex is scared of anything. He's a classic narcissisist.

I'm sure my ex is only afraid of having no money. That's where you will see his true colors every time.

WH


AT BD: WH 41, J 43; Bomb 2/5/2012
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WH I do think narcissists are different, and have different drivers.

But for my xh certainly, the light bulb moment when I realised it was fear, so many things made sense. The fear isn't obvious, but it is there.

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WH, mine left " in the first place " to live a fairy tale with his ?soulmate?... He needed a change in his life and felt STUCK.. Time was running out and a wife and 4 kids were holding him back.. Tomorrow might not come and he wanted to have fun, party, travel, have affairs and stay away from responsibility like it was the plague.. ALL ABOUT HIM..

This fear was inside and his confusion began.. the negative effect of his choices started hitting him like tons of brick.. He wanted our blessing but he wouldn' t give us his?? Why on earth should we get to be happy when he was sooooo miserable??
His dilemma began.. his struggle is with himself. not me, the kids, the girl friend, work, God... He was lying, cheating, secretive, mean, abusive, withdrawn, trying to have best of both worlds without consequences.. anyway.. buttom line: I conducted myself with pride, self-respect, self-control, and I stayed true to myself so that my soul stayed clean and intact.. I did not choose self-medication which would have made things worst for me ( internally, emotionally and psychologically )

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Originally Posted By: wishing, hoping
What are they fearful of? Losing the LBS? Then why did they leave in the first place? I don't think my ex is scared of anything. He's a classic narcissisist.

I'm sure my ex is only afraid of having no money. That's where you will see his true colors every time.

WH


Actually wh this is what my ic was trying to make me see, that my h might be a narc.
Something happened in my life, It was always about him not me. I go to a funeral for a relative of mine and its about how he is missing out.

Narcs are fear driven, do not think they aren't. They just don't deal with it the same way.
They fear that people will expose them for the shallow fakes they are, it's all about keeping up appearances.

It's tiring and most do not sleep well. Im pretty sure my h used to deliberately punish me by kicking me in the back all night. With extensive reading, it's a classic narc trait.

Wearing you down both physically and emotionally to make you pliable and believe their every word.

The money thing is classical narc trait too, they see it as a proof oh how they are ok enough to be successful, and those who have a problem with them are just mentally sick people who resent their success.

Hence my h sees me asking for property and money for a settlement as a betrayal. Even if I only take 1/3 of what I might be entitled to.

Narcs are also fearful of loosing their supply of one way niceness, which is the lbs! They are often the ones who run and never look back as they do not have remorse or empathy.

They are more concerned with how it looks. Mine said "too late, I've told every one" in such a a way that it would be too embarising to say I made a mistake.

So of that is rambling as I find being eloquent hard in the written word, I spell terrible and often have to look for other words I can spell.

The classic narc line is your used up! Which is the way they see things in their head. Yes, I was in his words used up. They have bleed you dry for all your emotion, like a vampire.


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The last time I had R talk with my H (when he told me he was never coming back), he made the statement:

"I'll admit to anybody I'm afraid. I'm afraid to leave, afraid to stay, afraid I made a mistake marrying you, afraid to say that, afraid I'm making a huge mistake..." He had more to say, but it started to sound like blah blah blah.

I ended the conversation by tellin him he would die alone and regret this. Although I truly believe that will be the reality of his life if he never snaps out of this, it is truly the only thing I regret throughout the last 8 months-----> not bad, considering all the things he will regret!!!! wink

Last edited by artsy; 08/03/14 03:00 AM.

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B, I think my H biggest fear, comes from feelings of low self-worth, of not being good enough, and of being found out that he doesn't really have it all together.

He was criticized and berated as a child, by his stepdad. His own dad left when he was 5. His mom was not too plugged-in. His older brothers were also insecure, so there was a bully-ish environment of one-upmanship.

I think the sense of not being good enough drives all of their other fears. If they believe they aren't good enough, they fear someone will find out. The fear of being found out keeps them in a secretive, hiding, pretending pattern, or wearing masks. When MLC takes over, I believe they do fear losing us. They know they are doing things that hurt us, and I think they must fear they can't stop and don't know why. The confusion has to be scary.

But I think their biggest fear right now, is of the pain they are feeling so deeply. Why is it there, why won't it go away, how can I get rid of this feeling....The crazier my MLC H continues to act, the more it becomes clear to me. He must hurt so unbelievably bad to run so fast and so hard toward destruction. Anything to get away from it.


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I can't say my W has driven the crazy train, as she has not "ran" like so many other MLC'ers have. She talked about doing it, even commented that she's surprised she hasn't... but she's still pretty much here and present.

But fear is a major driver. Fear of missing out on life. Fear of time running out. Fear of not finding "passion".

The low self esteem, social anxiety MLC'er seems to be the opposite of the narcissist MLC'er. Ask me how I know!


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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Ok tell us fy!

I'm all ears. I'm all open mind.


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One of the people who used to post here, and with whom I am still in regular contact, was married to a classic narcissist. Their divorce was all about money. Post trauma of the bomb and divorce, she now prefers life without him. The vampire comment is very true.

Many MLCers appear to display NPD traits during their crisis - maybe because they share many of the issues that narcissists face.

My xh's childhood was awful and his life was filled with fear arising from that, I can now see. So he wore masks, and still does. His real feelings got stuffed so far down the back of the sofa I am not sure if even he knew what they were.

At the time of the bomb it was all about what he had missed out on. It was basically a great big 'Life is not fair'.

Poor coping skills coming from a screwed up emotionally deprived background and an on-going fear of being exposed as a fake . . .

And now fear that they have screwed up big tie, and have no idea how to put things right.

There is a bit of verse that sums up a lot of what MLC looks like from the outside

He couldn't say yes, and he couldn't say no,
He couldn't say stay and he couldn't say go
He wanted to climb and was frightened to fall
So he stayed where he was and he clung to the wall

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Interesting thread,
My W has both the "social anxiety" and NPD traits going on. She has had VERY low self esteem for a long time. She had to describe herself for a seminar for work and she said she felt other people see her as "dorky", stupid, not good enough, "invisible", "shy", etc. The more I tried to build her up, the more angry she would become at me because I MUST be lying to her just to get her to like ME! I couldn't really think so highly of her or that if I did there must be something "wrong" with me as I was the only person who saw it that way. It was a no win situation. If I told her she was smart, I just didn't see her when she was at work, if I thought she was beautiful, I either was lying or had bad taste. I think that part of the problem is that if I really loved her the way she was, then I wasn't good enough for her!

For those going through MLC, for them to change who they are so drastically, to become so different than they were before, they must have hated who they were, felt inadequate. If they didn't have low self esteem, they wouldn't want so badly to be so different.

FY, my W says the same things as yours. She needs to "find my joy", time is running out, I only have a few more years left before I'm too old to enjoy my life, etc. But at the same time she is now doing the things that NPDers do and saying the things that they say. That part of it started when her father came into the picture and stated telling her what she was doing was the right thing for her to do. Up until he got involved no one she knew thought she was doing the "right" thing and she questioned herself. Enter the person who was the most to blame for her low self esteem telling her that now that she was acting more like him, he was PROUD of her. (Yes, he used those words, even told her she was "empowering" herself by hiding money from me when we were barely making ends meet and needed all the money we could just to pay the bills).

I think this is a big part of what the OP plays in MLC. They find someone who tells them that they are doing the right thing. That how they feel is justified because of what WE did TO them. Look at AJM's exW's new H. He, years later keeps repeating the made up reasons that his ex came up with to justify why she "had" to run. He defends the indefensible. She thinks "See, I'm not the only one who see's things this way!" and she remains stuck in the cycle of blame.

For my W, the person she most wanted to love her and care about her has now suddenly started to seem to care about her. Never mind that everyone else thinks she is acting out, doing the wrong thing, she has what she needs for now. Once she has totally destroyed her past and becomes the woman her father wants her to, he will go right back to being the same way he was before. By then my W will have destroyed her old life and it will be gone forever. What happens then only time will tell but for now it gives her the reason to keep doing what she is. So, sad. So much pain caused to so many. But nothing we LBS's can do to stop them!

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GG, the low self esteem MLC'er wasn't validated properly while growing up. Never felt good enough about themselves. So as a coping mechanism they pulled back and avoided social situations as much as they could... to avoid the pain of feeling like they didn't measure up to others. They were often shy and quiet in most of the social situations they couldn't avoid. My W didn't even like being in photo's at family events.

Growing up, my W had a bitter and abusive mom. In a letter she wrote to her Mom after her death, W asked: "Why did you have to be so mean?"

At school W always felt like an outcast. So she hated going to school, and hated coming back to the fighting at home. I met her at 16 so all of this was quite fresh!

As a result, her self confidence was always low. Like Matt did with his W, I always tried to build my W up. And like Matt, I always had limited success. She once told me that validation coming from me "was different" (as in not as good)... because as H I presumably HAD TO attempt to validate her... So anything good I said didn't hold as much weight as validation from others did.

Analyzing what's going on with our spouses offers us some explanation for their new behavior and why they are off searching for "The Meaning and Purpose of Life", but it's VERY important we don't get stuck there.

Because... We didn't break them and we can't fix "em!


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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My h would only do things so get recognition or an expected reaction.

He needed large shovel fulls, his main compliant was people who couldn't offer him recognition for paid jobs. He would often have coffee with his customers to bask and talk about his exceptional work he had done.

He needed to be thanked for each and everything he did, making coffee, spending time with you. Breathing! Lol

Anything done for him, was considered normal accepted and not worth a large mention.


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Hi FY,
I got the EXACT same words...I had to say she was pretty, smart, whatever because I was her husband. It got so bad that the only reason I wanted to have sex with her was because I was married to her so therefor the only person "available"! But the smallest compliment from someone she hardly knew and she would be on cloud 9. She was always talking about how she was so shy all her life but "forced" herself to be social. She was proud of that, she still is and wears it like a badge.

If you knew how her father cuts her down, says the most awful things about her in front of her it's clear why she has always felt this way. When I would point out what he was doing she would DEFEND him, saying he was just being "funny". Even the kids when they were young saw what he was doing, controlling her, cutting her down to control her. She started her MLC when he asked her to let him in her life to "make up" for all the hurt. But he only would if she would leave me and her family (like he had done). It started her depression and when he became ill she saw it as time running out and made the choice to do what she needed to get his love and acceptance. Of course she was into her own MLC by then.

Some day she may understand all of this, maybe she never will be able to face the truth. Her hurts are old and VERY deep. For now she see's an escape from the pain and can't stop to care about anyone else, not even her own kids. The pain is just too much to take and she's hoping to end it. Only time will tell if she can ever face the truth.

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Great thread. There is so much to think about here. H always turned to alcohol to escape bit I hadn't thought about fear driving the need to escape.

When s was born he was very ill and things were touch and go for a while. One day while in the nicu I got a call to come to ER. H had gone to a psychiatrist in an attempt to get some anxiety meds. He told the dr. He had wanted to kill himself by cutting off his a5m. 0 coping skills. I missed an opportunity to get him help there.

I missed many other opportunities and signs. I definitely started out building his self esteem regularly but stopped after years of list jobs and money problems and drinking problem which I ignored except to get on his back and blame him for it.

Spring before bomb drop I had a cancer scare which turned out to be ok. In the hospital after a surgery h admitted how scared he had been of losing me. He had been a rock for me through the entire process The few months after our marriage felt like it had in the beginning and them suddenly he was gone and with ow and hating me.

I have suspected that it was that stress and fear that was the final push over the edge.


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Hi, in pretty much everything I have seen about narcissism this is a classic trait - the need for excessive recognition.

One of the things I learned fast when I became a consultant is 'the client is paying you - they expect the job to be well done, and in their view, the payment is enough!'

And yes, we ar not born as narcissists - early influences appear to be key here. It is also seen as a very very difficult emotional state to treat.

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Yeah, I think it's why my ic has mentioned it, I think she's thinking if he is, he ain't coming back anytime soon.

I was so devastated, I think she was planting a seed, to prepare me.


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Easy to say, I know, but the experience of many people who have been in a relationship with a narcissist is that when the trauma of the break-up is dealt with, the lbs actually feels better than before

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Yes, they also report it actually takes longer to recover.

As you just don't know who you are, nor have any ideas what was true and what was false.

The narc has a discard phase, that can last years, in which the devalue you totally.

I have never lost so much weight ever, in such a short time, never have I wanted almost to become a total hermit over any break up.

It doesn't matter how unreasonable his story or demands, he makes them so plausible. I'm worried that at mediation he might convince mediator I owe him thousands.


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Julie,

Stop. Please don't blame yourself for your h not getting help. Yes, I know you are caring and nurturing person. However, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. I scurried around and made appointments for my h and the only person who can address his issues is him. Same for your h. It's like if your h goes to IC, you can't make him be honest and do the work. He can go forever but if he isn't honest , it's a waste.

Don't blame yourself for his mess. Sending you a hug!



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Boy do they not want to drink. Mine says he's got nothing to talk about to mediator, but in person he over an hour to me of what hs demands were.

Sigh.


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Quote:
Boy do they not want to drink. Mine says he's got nothing to talk about to mediator


Just keep thinking 'teenager with attitude alert'.

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hey bea-

just sayin hi- sos with my life - but always glad you & gang are "out there" - just in case.

i can't ever imagine my h "drinking"- narcisistc & stubborn & blind and idk . see glimpses of old guy here or there- but think maybe that original wonderful guy was the "nicotine niceness" and now that that's gone- perhaps nevermore. i'm sure i'll know in the end huh

onwrd & upwrd

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Bea, I think your XH just wants your constant attention.

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Ow 2 or one was revealed.

Seems that my h was actively dating last year. Hence the blonde bimbo is going to be around for a while. He didn't just grab the first floating past thing.


M 46 h54
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T 11y
Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads!
Ms 18 hs 26
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