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Hi all, today is my 39th birthday. The Happy Birthday wishes are pouring in over FB and text, and I'm humbled, but I also wonder what all these "friends" would think if they knew I was a cheater and a liar.

I know it probably drives my Ex crazy seeing people "love" me without all the information. I've contemplated posting something open and direct about the affair on FB so my whole world has all the information, but that feels oddly self serving.

Any advice on what is appropriate disclosure? How do I avoid my ex thinking I'm just "burying" the truth and letting people think in this awesome guy, when she experiences me as a total villain who doesn't own up to his sh1t.

DB


Me: 39 - W: 35
Together: 2 years, no kids
My Affair: 1.5 years
Affair ended: 4/9/14
Affair revealed: 5/19/14
Last Contact: 8/2/14
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 172
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HOLY MOLY!!!!! She just wrote me a Happy Birthday message. What do I say?!?!?! I need some advice and wisdom on how not to F this up like every other communication we've had these last few months.

She writes:

"Hey,

I just wanted to wish you a happy birthday. I know you have been a rough time these past few months, just as I have. I hope you will be celebrating with friends or classmates. I’m heading up to Sacramento to celebrate with my dad - he turns 75 today.

I was telling myself I had let go of the things that happened with us, but surprisingly I’ve just been getting more angry about it lately. I guess I hadn’t had the time to really process it yet, given how busy I’ve been with work and school. I was in a really good place in my life when I met you... I had done so much work on myself and was ready to meet my life partner. But here I am, two years later, trying to repair and rebuild. So many steps backward. A bummer of a place to be in, to say the least.

I’m not even really sure what to say at this point, except that I do recognize that you have probably been going through a very rough time yourself and I don’t believe you ever intended to hurt me. I hope your work with Greg has helped you understand how your actions affect those around you, the people who are loving you and trusting you. I realized a while back that I couldn’t make you understand how you hurt me -- I can only hope you are able to come to that realization yourself, and will remember it before making decisions to be deceitful in the future.

I also hope that your therapy work is helping you to resolve the things that have plagued you emotionally for much of your life. I still believe you have a good heart and I hope you are able to overcome those issues and coping behaviors that prevent you from loving yourself. You have a lot to offer the world and if you can find a way to let love in, I’m sure you can achieve anything you want in life.

I hope school and work are going well for you. May the coming year bring you peace and happiness."

What do I say?!?!


Me: 39 - W: 35
Together: 2 years, no kids
My Affair: 1.5 years
Affair ended: 4/9/14
Affair revealed: 5/19/14
Last Contact: 8/2/14
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 334
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Vets? What should he say?

I've got no advice....

I think it's great she reached out to you.

That said, I'd be careful of your response. Jumping back in too deeply too quickly could be bad.

I, for one, don't like to hear the words "I love you," right now. Do I want to hear them again? I do--yes....but for me it's all about actions, not words. I want to see evidence of honesty and fidelity and get to THAT place before we return to "I love you." I need time.

So - vets! Tell him what he should say!

(Happy birthday, by the way! I hope this is a great year for you!)

Last edited by MLP; 08/01/14 06:56 PM.
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Say NOTHING today. Wait a day or two to thank your friends and family and send her a private BRIEF message that asks her for NOTHING.

Do you get that? You do not pounce on this! You do not seek anything for yourself. You simply thank her and say something like "I know I have a lot of work to do but I"m glad to do it, finally. Thank you for your words of support; it means a lot to me."

NO more apologizing (til much later, in person, IF & when the time is right) and do NOT make a public statement.

That's already been discussed as a BS "amends" that is self serving for YOU and will embarrass her MORE.

Don't unload at her expense, deal with your guilt without making a public show of your humility, which is not true humility anyhow.

Do you get this? Her words to you are a gift, NOT to be used for your obvious gain. Just thank her privately and drop it.

I assume her message to you was private? Then keep yours the same way.

She's NOT asking you for a public response! She is not opening the door for you to go thru it now. You can accept her words as they are written and hope they mean what she says but she has NOT said "call me" and she has NOT said she forgives you and she has NOT said "contact me and now I am thinking of taking you back"

She has simply allowed SOME good feelings and thoughts of you, to return and that is NOT something you want to stop or squash down. And those good feelings and memories resurfacing, will STOP on a dime, if you try to gain something now.

Take this as a positive movement that you do NOT BLOW...you DO what she's advising about your therapy and in a few months (like AT LEAST 3-4 months) we can help you MAYBE drop her a quick note about some insight maybe.

THEN SEE what she does with that. NOT NOW. IT's too soon. You want her to wonder about your progress and to see a CHANGE in you --which is you not pouncing on this...and then to ponder how you are evolving, which you'll address in a few months...AFTER more growth.

Do you get this?

Originally Posted By: DBinSF
HOLY MOLY!!!!! She just wrote me a Happy Birthday message. What do I say?!?!?! I need some advice and wisdom on how not to F this up like every other communication we've had these last few months.

Because every time she has shown an INCH of progress, you have asked for a mile, so she has pushed you away so you won't EXPECT more.

Stop making this about what YOU want and do not attach any expectations to your reply. The fastest way for you to blow this, is to try to squeeze more out of this. Do not do that.

Let her see that you took in her words without asking for something more.


Let her see a CHANGE in you, (which is what you not asking for more, would be.)
That is a 180.



She writes:

"Hey,

I just wanted to wish you a happy birthday. I know you have been a rough time these past few months, just as I have. I hope you will be celebrating with friends or classmates. I’m heading up to Sacramento to celebrate with my dad - he turns 75 today.

I was telling myself I had let go of the things that happened with us, but surprisingly I’ve just been getting more angry about it lately. I guess I hadn’t had the time to really process it yet, given how busy I’ve been with work and school. I was in a really good place in my life when I met you... I had done so much work on myself and was ready to meet my life partner. But here I am, two years later, trying to repair and rebuild. So many steps backward. A bummer of a place to be in, to say the least.

^^^This is her saying you pushed back all her personal work, and depressed the hell out of her.



I’m not even really sure what to say at this point, except that I do recognize that you have probably been going through a very rough time yourself and I don’t believe you ever intended to hurt me. I hope your work with Greg has helped you understand how your actions affect those around you, the people who are loving you and trusting you. I realized a while back that I couldn’t make you understand how you hurt me -- I can only hope you are able to come to that realization yourself, and will remember it before making decisions to be deceitful in the future.


IN TIME this^^ is the realization you will need to truly make and she will NOT believe you have made it yet no matter what you SAY now. Do not bother telling her "I get it NOW! Come back!" That is more of the same you!

But what you DO, might make her believe it later on.....IN TIME.....so be careful not to push for more. IT's crucial that you get this.


I also hope that your therapy work is helping you to resolve the things that have plagued you emotionally for much of your life. I still believe you have a good heart and I hope you are able to overcome those issues and coping behaviors that prevent you from loving yourself. You have a lot to offer the world and if you can find a way to let love in, I’m sure you can achieve anything you want in life.


that is the hope YOU have as well, but again, say nothing of this^^ NOW.

I hope school and work are going well for you. May the coming year bring you peace and happiness."

What do I say?!?!



You say nothing to her today. You reflect on what you will PRIVATELY tell her in a day or two. NO RUSH. Really, there is no reason to rush this.


You thank all your friends/peeps for their wishes and say something like how they are "the best" and that you were touched and humbled and don't go into more detail. Your friends don't want to hear a big speech anyhow.

AND Do NOT make a public apology (and read my other message to you about why you should NOT do that if you start wavering). IT's crucial you do NOT make this public. Take the advice you are getting here.

That's so important. In my opinion if you do make a grand public apology, after all the advice you have gotten NOT to do that, you will lose her forever.

Last edited by 25yearsmlc; 08/01/14 07:06 PM.

M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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btw

what did YOU think about her questions regarding how you lack coping behaviors and self love?

And what other lies is she referring to? How long were you cheating on her? I wasn't clear about that.

It was not a fling but what was it? I'm sincerely asking so I can gauge what she's thinking. and what are the things she sees as plaguing you for your whole life? What are those things?

Do you agree with her?

And most importantly, what are you doing to work on those?

What are you learning to do that is constructive or healthier, instead of whatever you used to do to cope?

That is what I'd want you to work on, for AWHILE

before I'd ever consider taking you back. So, what's up with all that?


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Hiya, DB.

I wanted to chime in here as I have some experience with making sincere amends with Ms. Wonka.

This is so encouraging to see that she's opened up to you and she's clearly at a very, very vulnerable place. I am in agreement with 25 on exercising some restraint on your part. I know you want to drop down on the ground and lie prostrate at her feet.

My suggestion would be to acknowledge her HBD wishes to you and that you do appreciate her heartfelt thoughts. Then close by saying that you will be in touch later in response to her thoughts. I think this is an excellent way to open up dialogue with her on healing from your wounds together.

At a later time (a week would be good), you can respond to her as you need time to process them and treat her words with respect that they deserve.

I will need to find my apology letter to Ms. Wonka that I posted in Bea's thread over in the MLC forum back in March 2014. That sincere apology generated a good, positive and heartfelt dialogue between Ms. Wonka and I. The book isn't completely closed on this topic yet. It is still being written.

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I am Not disagreeing with Wonka, but JUST so I know I'm not confusing you with another poster, DB, didn't she threaten a restraining order or something like that if you didn't leave her alone? Weren't you pursuing the crap out of her before?

What exactly happened when you chased her around or called/texted 100 times to "just say" yet another "I'm sorry"?

Now, I MAY disagree with Wonka's timing.

I fear If you try too soon to "open up dialogue", she may regret saying anything to you, which is why I'm so reluctant to advise you to make contact out of this. See, I don't believe she was trying to open up dialogue;

I think she was sending out a heartfelt olive branch that says, in effect,

"you are very screwed up, you hurt me DEEPLY, but I don't think you are evil incarnate, and I do wish you well".

She probably does have hopes you will become the man she hoped for, and she MAY have hopes that you will THEN contact her but even IF that is true,

those hopes are wrapped in & surrounded by fears of being deeply wounded again, and a sense of rage at being so unfairly hurt.

To the point where she probably fears she'll never really trust another man again, or fears that she could never get past this, with you,

plus she has to wonder why you would NOT cheat again - if you are unsatisfied with the sex life. Did she even know how you felt then?

***(BTW< did you ever tell her you were not satisfied sexually, or that you wanted to do other things?

OR are you saying the fact that your "best favorite sex" was with women you did not deeply care for, is something you want to change about yourself? ---

Btw, I think this^^ is extremely important. In the long run, if it's not addressed, I can't see how you or any woman could trust you to be faithful.

So Why not DO the work she is hoping for, rather than talking about it Again?

Why not DO IT, and THEN touch bases with her?

Won't she believe in it, a hell of a lot more if more time passes?

Since you both seem to agree that you were a bit of a chronic liar/cheat, how can she believe that you'd fix decades of that, in just a few weeks?

Isn't it more credible (and more likely true) if you work on it for months/years?

I'm not telling you to wait years

(though I wish I could advise you to wait a year. In that time I'd urge you to work your butt off on yourself, as that is what I believe you need to do.

I simply don't think it's advice you will follow).

but a week seems way too early for her to believe in any changes.

Now, if you want to say in a week's time, THAT you are working on making those changes and you have just started to dig deep, working on the things she mentioned (NOT that you have fixed them & are all better now, AND it is safe for her to see you again) but that you are just thanking her for her support, knowing you have plenty of work to do, and then leaving it at that,

-- that's another story.

Is that something you could pull off?

Is it really possible that if you see her, you will be able to keep it together and NOT pounce?

I fear that you will go in for more and blow it, b/c that is consistently what you have done so far.

I think it's best for you to maintain as much distance as you can at this time,
in order for:


1) your changes to take place; genuinely, AND

2) for your changes to sink in to last; AND

3) for anyone to believe in them being real & lasting.

Make sense?


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
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DB,

Here is my apology letter to Ms. Wonka with the intent of making sincere amends caused my loopy MLC antics.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Ms. Wonka,

Before I begin this message, I do want to tell you that I enjoyed your birthday card. It was a very thoughtful gesture and I really do appreciate it. Also our fun-filled text exchanges are so positive and plain fun!

First of all, I want you to know that I come to you with respectful intentions and struggled with finding the right balance in reaching out to you while respecting your space and life.

I owe you an apology and do want to make sincere amends for the pain I have caused you in the last year or two of our relationship. Both of us have experienced tremendous pain, sorrow, and heartbreak as we parted ways. Please let me know how I can make amends with you. I am open to ideas and feedback. As you may agree, I would like for both of us to heal in meaningful ways. Please know that I am uncertain how to go about this and may make a few mistakes along the way.

So I thought I'd take the first step in reaching out to you. It is my hope that you are receptive to allowing the healing process begin anew between us and grant us the space to do so at our own pace in a mutually supportive way.

I am here if you wish to participate in this healing process.

Take care and be well.

Wonka

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DB,

I want to caution you that the apology letter which was sent in March 2014 happened nearly after 9 years after our split. During the intervening years, we both slammed the door in our faces at various times during "reaching out" moments. Ms. Wonka was as tough and slow as a glacier and I worked very, very hard to chip away at it.

You might want to file away the apology letter later for the "right time." I do think it is important that you do acknowledge your W's email to you for it was heartfelt regardless of how 25 interpreted it.

What is important now is to distill her email to you and reflect on them for they do contain nuggets of truth for you since they are her feelings and POV. Try to see you through HER eyes and I think you might be able to gain some fresh perspective on her pain along with her fear of getting hurt by you again.

In my mind, in your situation, I think it is critical that you at least acknowledge her feelings and respond with 2 to 3 short paragraphs. Not acknowledging them would be more of the same from you in blowing off her feelings and diminishing her as a human being. No need to write War & Peace in your response trying to defend or explain yourself!

Meanwhile, use the gift of the time to reflect on your behaviors, thought patterns, and attitudes. Then make any changes that YOU want to make FOR YOURSELF. You want to get to a place where you feel better about yourself and get to a healthier place of relating with others--especially women.

It starts with you right now. The choice is up to you.

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Wonka

I didn't say for him to NOT write to her. I just don't think him asking her for something, now, is appropriate.

Like you said, it was years before you sent your letter. AND in your letter you refer to mutual pain, which is likely appropriate in your situation.

But I don't see how that would apply here.

I DO think he needs to respond absolutely. (Which I wrote.)

I don't think there is substantive disagreement but I want to be clear with DB that the letter from you to your w, is a good concept,

but for DB ---word for word?---No I think the only piece should be his remorse, not any mutual reciprocal type of "we both did wrong" or "both had painful times"

b/c to ME, his girlfriend is the only aggrieved party, not DB. I don't see a lot of reciprocity.

But that's just MY OPINION which could of course be wrong.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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