We had the appt with the new guy (who looks about 12!!!) but I could see that S21 interacts comfortably with him and respects him. They're doing some really difficult work and there is progress. Baby steps, patience and being comfortable with uncertainty
I love that when S21 was uncomfortable talking about certain things with H and I in the room, he said "I'm really not comfortable talking about that with them (H and I) here."
I've only learned to set boundaries in the last 4-5 years. (Anna Katherine, Pia Mellody, thank you!)
I'm in another online support group for parents, I mostly read there but one of the other moms wrote a lovely post to me that I still have, and reread. This is a part of it:
Quote:
What has worked for me, is letting go of any attachment to outcomes or end points. It's a long life. He'll get there - where ever there is. I can't see the magic formula that will get him from here to there, but I know he is able. It IS up to HIM, not me. I "simply" support the process, and try not to lose my own mind along the way
On the M front things are as good as I let them be. Does that make sense to anyone?
I've found that I can be angry about something and not let every angry thing spill out of my mouth in that moment. I can sit with if for awhile, let the heat pass and then enter the conversation that needs to happen, in a loving way. Really, it's doable. The emotion is the emotion and it will pass if I let it.
I'm trying to make pause, relax, open a habit.
It's raining in the desert. That's a good thing! How about at your house, Crim?
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
My house has been spared the ravages of the monsoon season thus far. I've had a little rain and that brings the smell of the creosote bushes to life -- one of my favorite AZ things of all time. My parents neighborhood, though, off of I17 got blasted last weekend...trees down everywhere. The head of their HOA is an Elvis impersonator - so there was Elvis...walking around all of this damage taking notes. What is it about Elvis impersonators that renders them unable to leave work at the office? But I digress.....
I am hoping to arrive at the point where you are with conflict. In fact, I know I am damn near there -- I think I just get very anxious because I have bad memories of her reactions (long and short term) to me bringing up things that bothered me. Still, we are making solid progress.
That's a great question, Bug. It has been kind of odd. I was very up front with them about her going to Disney with us and they know she has been back around the house and that we have been spending time together again. My day is pretty understanding about it all -- he kind of gets where my head has been during this ordeal. He just has very little trust in her, and frankly, that is understandable. My mom has been quiet about it for the most part - but the few times she has been mildly injected into a conversation she was pleasant. I believe my dad has given her the "it is his life" speech a few times. I can tell my mom is still angry with her based upon some of her words. I think she still thinks that she is owed an apology from her because she says SHE was hurt, too. Yeah, so that is never going to happen - ever. Not because W won't do it (though I am sure she wouldn't) - I just don't think it is necessary and speaks a lot to my mom's sense of entitlement in this situation (making it about "her") than anything else.
My S(almost)25 is now living in Canada with his GF whom we've met a few times and like. Don't know her well enough to love her but she loves our son. A lot. And he's headoverheels. So I'm happy for them both.
But,
It's very difficult to move into the back seat of a life you created. I'm doing it but some days it's a struggle. Right now they're making some decisions that I think aren't in his best interests long-term.
Not. My. Problem.
It's probably good that they live far away. I continue to remind myself that this is his life. We all get out time at bat.
Love and support, love and support, love and support have become my mantra with both sons.
Last edited by labug; 08/07/1402:09 PM.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
I guess that is kind of where they are too, Bug. I don't think my actions from them are getting a ringing endorsement, but at the same time they are trying to let go. My parents often speak of how XW hurt "the family" and broke the trust of "the family"....I don't know why, Bug, but those statements irritate me to no end, but I keep it to myself. I get it....their son got hurt....oh, and I did....badly...by her. But somehow I have been able to persevere, weather the storm, identify my role, work to improve and forgive. They, on the other hand, (mom especially) have not. My sister has gone as far as to say that she would like ME to come visit her house and family back in Indiana - but I can't if she is with me. Pretty harsh, huh? And not to air her dirty laundry but she herself has had an emotional affair or two over the span over her 14 year marriage and I would not be stunned if at least one of them turned physical. Just seems to be a clear double standard...ya know?
So Bug, I have really important question for you or anyone else in the piecing process (not to hijack) - and forgive me if it is personal.
Did you husband have to regain your trust again when you were reacquainting? Did that have to happen before things became affectionate of physical again? Did romantic feelings take time to resurface or did they never go away for you? We are spending a lot of time together and doing a lot of things as a family - but we don't really hold hands or anything...we just hugged for the first time last night (with another group hug this morning because I had to drop by before work with S). As I noted in my thread on the other board, my IC told me that women need to feel emotionally secure and safe before they feel physical or sexual and men need to feel accepted physically and sexually before they are comfortable being emotional or vulnerable. It's quite a paradox. And though I know that not enough close time has passed for there to be a 100% feeling of emotional trust, I can't help but have my ego bruised a bit because of the lack of affection -- it's almost like I look at myself and wonder "what's wrong with me? am I unattractive now?".
The irony is that while I was deep in the dating pool I really got validated and got my self confidence back after having it shredded during the D process. I really felt "attractive" and like a really good guy again. She is the only one that can stir the insecurities back up a little bit. Now...I know that it is ME stirring my own insecurities and not her - but it is a weak spot for sure. I was never, ever a big PDA or hand holder when we were together...and it was a problem for her. And now, that's all I really want...just to hold her hand. Funny how tables turn.
I can answer this from my POV but remember, I went through this whole DB process, a lot of IC, reading and knowing I had some things that were poisonous inside that had to be removed by the roots.
We started our new R over texting. I think it gave us both some safety because we weren't face-to-face and could respond thoughtfully. We had sex pretty quickly. Our marriage was sex-starved because of me and I knew that needed to change, and he needed to know that it had changed.
The first time we were intimate, the ground rules were from him, no strings attached and I was OK with that. He was gun shy and I knew that. He had reason to be. At that point it was dating, we were starting a new R. He had to get to know the me I am now and I had to see if he was someone I wanted to build a R with.
It was further down the line that we started using the word love.
Our sons didn't know we were dating until we were certain that things were working out. After we told them, H started spending more time here at the house but didn't spend a night here until he moved back.
Altogether it was from Aug to Christmas of last year.
About your family, have you talked with your IC about how to deal with that? Sounds like there are very few boundaries there.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Hi Labug! I have nothing relevant to say, just that I'm glad some of our little circle of friends still posts here so I can keep up with how you're doing. I hope you have a great week!
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Ditto, Ad. I'm kind of at a loss for where/what to post. I think I am long past the newcomer phase....and I am sorta piecing....but not quite. Hence, I have passively hi-jacked bug's thread! It seems to be a gathering place for people!
Hanging out with ex and son a lot. There have been a ton of great talks....we have a joint counseling session this week....and there have been lots of group hugs with S. The vibe is different than the last time we tried a little over a year ago. Cautions...but optimistic. We are driving to San Diego for Labor Day weekend.
THIS IS THE THREAD where anyone who is anyone, comes to chime in. for you.
Will post more later...
But meanwhile, don't let your mom stand too long in the sunlight, while she waits for the GRAND APOLOGY from your former wife. She'll probably get see s
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
oh i am so happy to hear an update!!! seriously!!! i am so so happy!! like advina.. i have nothing to say.. i should log on more often to hear the updates.
Me:38.. H:33. Two beautiful kids S:6 D:3 M:8.. together for 11. Bomb dropped:10/17/11 Separated:11/07/11
I am doing great...hard to keep up with the site with school, kids, work and ONE computer! Just ordered a new laptop because I am taking several online course so hoping to keep in touch more consistently!
M 46 H 44 D 12 S 8 M 9 T 11 BD 2/15/13 "Makes sense to stay together" 5/12/13 Agree we are 'healing' 7/13 Definitely Piecing 9/13
This article came to mind today as I was reading posts in Newcomers. I didn't write it but the author closely describes my feelings and history. She so closely described me that I read parts of it to my H about a month after he left. (Yes, it was pleading, I wasn't a very good DBer in the beginning.)
Reading this created a bright spot on the landscape and gave me something to hold on to or to move toward.
From another forum:
Drama Queen wrote a powerful piece about breaking the patterns of dysfunction. I loved her essay. Here it is.
I believe in quitting. Growing up in America, in a middle-class home in a suburban community, I was instilled with the Protestant work ethic. I have learned the value of pulling my own weight, taking responsibility for my actions, and being dependable and reliable. I respect authority, obey rules and help others whenever I can. I am strong. I am also weak. The perfectionism in my personality eats away my strength from the inside out. It insists on showing me all the rules I’ve broken, and all the people I’ve failed to help. It focuses on the distance between who I am and who I “should” be. I’ve been given every advantage – a stable childhood, natural intellect and talents, a college education, a wonderful husband and son. And yet I’m still not good enough. But I have learned how to battle this enemy. I have learned how to quit. When my husband left me several years ago, and my world came crashing down, I got a chance that many people don’t get. I could start my life over, from scratch, and build it however I wanted, using knowledge I didn’t have the first time around. As I surveyed the wreckage of my life, I began to see patterns, unnecessary patterns. My life had been built on assumptions gleaned from the world around me. My goal had always been to do everything “right”. Unfortunately, there are many definitions of “right”. I chose the ones that fit into my upbringing. I allowed the world around me to tell me the “right” way to live. To be a good wife, you must do this, and this, and this, and this. To be a good mother, you must do that, and that, etc. Sitting in the dust pile at ground zero, I saw the flaw in the design. The house I had tried to build was doomed to crumble. There were no load-bearing walls, only facades, propped up by assumptions and “general wisdom”. My path was clear. If I was going to rebuild, I would have to establish a firm foundation of who I was and throw away all the debris of who I “should be”. I spent many months clearing the property. I examined every commitment I was in, and quit all that were not compatible with my new foundation. Each commitment, in and of itself, was good and right and some were even noble. But they weakened me, because they did not fit my true design. Once the foundation was laid, I established guidelines to screen every timber and bolt before it was allowed to be used. If it did not fit, flow with or complement my foundation, it was unacceptable. My new house would stand. As new commitments presented themselves, they were screened and tested, and only those that passed were allowed in. Some that passed the initial screening, proved later to be unsuitable to the structure, so they were removed. Quitting has brought me peace. I make commitments very carefully, and I fulfill them to the best of my ability. But I am no longer bound to the universal guilt of needing to do every good thing. I do what I do. And it is good. And the world is left to fill the rest of its need for good through others. When I’m done, I quit. And I stay whole.
Last edited by labug; 09/07/1407:59 PM.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
After almost 5 years of weekly IC, I'm going to biweekly. This is huge because of the difference in who I was when I walked in to her office the first time and who I am now. She has definitely kept me moving forward without pushing. I've shed a lot of layers in that office and she's seen and heard both the best of me and the worst of me.
Things are moving along on the marriage front. We are two distinct individuals working to create a R that is interdependent while maintaining our separate identities. It's work but for today, it's worth it.
S25 is off to graduate school while living in Canada with his GF. He's happy, in love and loved, and chipping away at his goals.
S21 is working hard and overcoming some of his issues. It's more progress than I've seen in a long, long time. Maybe we finally have the right therapeutic team in place. It seems that way for today. If it crumbles, we can always change it.
We'll continue to do what works.
I'm also allowing some new work ideas to percolate in my head. We'll see what comes of that.
Great day to you all.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Labug- randomish question for you. I saw in your threads that you had an R talk with your H in November 2012 where he said it was time to settle things. Between that and when you started reconciling, did that ever come up again? Did you just keep doing what you had been doing and didn't worry about whether or not he would follow through?
Me:30 H:29, no kids T:12, M:4 (when D was final) 12/13: "Don't think I want to be M anymore" 6/14: Separated (I move) 1/15: H filed for D 5/15: D final
I did that knowing I was at the point that I needed to hear whatever he had to say. And although it was hard to hear and sad, it was also good.
I was then able to really let go and I did. Again being Dd wasn't going to change anything, I wasn't ready for a new R. But I knew I was getting there and when the time came, I would have had no qualms about filing. It would have been the next natural step in the process.
I learned so much about patience, not acting on emotion and trusting the process during this that has helped me in all areas of my life.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
I'm posting this from Anne Lamott because she so gets it.
For all of us who by controlling think we're helping.
"...Then the ER doctor said, while stitching me up, that he'd read Traveling Mercies years ago, and that it might be a good book for his daughter. I asked nonchalantly if his daughter was going through it. His eyes filled with tears and to his horror, fell down his cheeks. He had to stop. Grace met us right there. It meets you right where it finds you, but it does not leave you where it found you. It moves you toward breath; moves you towards things being a little bit better: wow. Grace WD-40. Grace is water wings. Grace makes you shake your head with wonder, and laugh and cry. I said to the doctor, "This is your lucky day. I just had 28 years clean and sober. I am your daughter's new BFF." Now the daughter is in rehab, but the big story is that the doctor is in a rehab program for the families of alcoholics, who tend to have TINY psychotic control issues. I said to him, "Get off this poor girl's back. Your help is not helpful, except to help keep everyone sick. This is HER hero journey: you don't get to run beside her with juice boxes, Chapstick, and your control freak ways. If your help was helpful, she would not be in jail." This had never occurred to the doctor, that he had a disease of Good Ideas for Other People. I do, too. Now we are in recovery for this disease together. I put him together with one of my close friends,... who is also in recovery for these tiny control issues that make people just as miserable and mentally ill as the addicts and alcoholics we try to fix and save and rescue. "
We never know what lessons other people need in their lives.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
I just read the quote in my post again, I get so much from her writing, mostly because she isn't perfect, doesn't pretend to be perfect. She let's it all hang out, warts and all. I can identify.
I'm reading Wild right now and did 3/4 of it in one sitting. I think the author's description of her grief over the death of her mother and her abusive childhood will seem familiar to many people here.
If old wounds aren't healed they will always ooze and cause pain. Bandaids won't heal it.
Last edited by labug; 09/29/1402:47 PM.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
One day she finally grasped that unexpected things were always going to happen in life. And with that she realized the only control she had was how she chose to handle them. So she made the decision to survive using courage, humor and grace. She was the queen of her own life and the choice was hers.
I wanted to bring this over here 'cause it so succinctly captures my own journey and I said almost the same thing, to my IC last week.
It's been an eventful 3-4 weeks. My MIL had to have emergency, middle-of-the night surgery. She's 88. Not the late night phone call you want to get. She's recovering nicely at 4 wks out but has some residual issues. My SIL has stayed with us some during this time and we've created a new and better R than we had before. This after I thought we'd never have a R, no matter what. Just goes to show what trying to predict the future is useless and life moves to its own beat.
My MIL has really latched on to me and can't say enough good things about me to the point that it's uncomfortable. She does have age-related dementia but I'm just curious about her sudden need to talk about this. They are not expressive people in that way so it may be her dementia has opened up that part of her brain. We've always had a good R but we weren't best friends. It's nice but curious. I'm glad she feels the love.
S21 is stuck, if anyone has read the book BrainLock-that's where he is. I may have to read it again. H and I have made some difficult decisions and are going to talk with him about boundaries and choices. We haven't because we need it to be a time when we're all 3 able to be present, not just in body but also in mind and spirit. So Thursday it is.
There's also a difficult work situation I'm dealing with but I'm handling it. Had to do an extra IC appt but I just needed bolstering. In the past that type of thing would have hit me like a ton of bricks and it's in these times that I can see that my changes are real and lasting.
I am the sky, everything else is just the weather. That's my goal.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Labug, you are the sky, and also the ray of sun that shines whether it's visible or not.
I feel like I want to say something about your family's adventures but the words aren't coming as neatly as the feeling has. I think it all comes down to... Life is messy. We can cry over our spills while they drip on the floor or we can quick attend to it so it doesn't spread and get out of control. Thank you for mentoring me and others on where to find the sponge. Your family is lucky to have you.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
Thanks, Maybell. You have so much inside you that's loving and giving and pure, it's a d@mn shame we allow others to decide what we let out because we're afraid.
We had the talk with S21 and the sky didn't fall, he didn't walk out, he listened. We'll now just see what happens.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
I know this story about my son isn't M related but it does impact M. S21 has gone silent on us, at least for now. That worries me. I'm thinking H and I may need C together to weather this. He and I have different ways of dealing with this, his sometimes includes raising his voice to get a point across and that makes me crazy. He hasn't had the advantage of years of C. Without that, I would also be doing a lot of yelling, or crying or both.
H also has the added responsibility of his Mom, and while it's not overwhelming, it's always in the back of his mind. I know, been there, done that. We've been in the "sandwich" for years now, first with my mom, now his.
Life is full of hills and valleys. Keep moving forward.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Bug - so sorry to hear about the struggles with your son.
It's good that you recognize how you and your H approach and react differently to challenging situations - awareness is the first step, right?
It also doesn't help that your H has his plate full right now. C together sounds like a great option.
You are amazing, Bug. I know you will find a smoother way to navigate these choppy waters (and learn some for the next round of waves).
xoxo
Me & H: 44 D7, D6, S3 Together: 20y, M: 17y EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10 EA becomes PA: Spring 2011 H filed for D: 09/06/12 D Negotiating began 2/15 OW seemingly gone on 3/15 Still negotiating D
Bug - so sorry to hear about the struggles with your son.
It's good that you recognize how you and your H approach and react differently to challenging situations - awareness is the first step, right?
It also doesn't help that your H has his plate full right now. C together sounds like a great option.
You are amazing, Bug. I know you will find a smoother way to navigate these choppy waters (and learn some for the next round of waves).
xoxo
Hey friend, I see some changes in your sig info. ((( )))
Hope you are well. Your baby is 3, WOW!
It's true, there's always a next round of waves. Is the secret to just dive in head first?
I cant fix S21 anymore than I can fix anyone else. I know many other parents have been here before me. Let go, let go, let go. Maybe everything I've gone through up to now was to prepare me for this.
This too shall pass. Thanks for the encouraging words.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
There's a been a lot of weather of late. Thanks for reminding me and the reminder to breathe. I got to my IC appt this morning and spent a few moments before going in doing just that.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Just wanted to stop by, say hi and wish you a Merry Christmas with your boys and your H.
I still keep come back just to read and always look for your posts - I learn so much from you, my dear friend.
When I grow up, I want to be like you. Still a looong way to go, though.
xoxo
Me & H: 44 D7, D6, S3 Together: 20y, M: 17y EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10 EA becomes PA: Spring 2011 H filed for D: 09/06/12 D Negotiating began 2/15 OW seemingly gone on 3/15 Still negotiating D
Things are going well in my sitch, thanks to these forums and the DB'ing ways, along with a lot of growth. Thank you for asking. How are you? I've been catching up on the boards. Hope you had a Merry Christmas.
Me:45 ExW:48 M:04/97 3 Bombs & 2 ReCons 1st BD 11/10 D Finalized 4/20 D-16 S-14 Going in one more round when you don't think you can. That's what makes all the difference in life.~Rocky Balboa
I thought I'd do a post at year's end as it's been just over a year since H and I reconciled.
One thing I've learned, reconciliation isn't an end point, it's just another beginning. And it's completely new territory. The skills I picked up here and elsewhere get put to the test often. Sometimes I rise to the occasion, sometimes I don't.
I'm OK with that as long as I learn something from it. I'm also much freer with apologies these days and forgiveness. We all eff up and it's not the end of the world. In my black/white mind I always thought, "That's it, if he loved he would or wouldn't..." I then reacted to that story and resented and hurt and tried to hurt back.
I have more honest perspective about me. I've learned to slow down and I realize that everything doesn't need to be settled, right here, right now. If something bugs me I take some time to figure out what it is that is really bugging me, the I work on what to do about it. Believe it or not, many times I don't need to do anything about it.
I fell off the wagon, so to speak, a bit this month. We have 2 birthdays in Dec and then all the holiday stuff. S25 was here for 10 days with his girlfriend. So a lot going on and most of it good but that doesn't mean it's not a stressful. I let my victim move in for awhile. On Sunday I suggested to H that we go to a movie and when he didn't jump up and respond with "Yes, let's! That's the best idea I've ever heard, love of my life!" I didn't take it well at all. He's never responded to anything in life like that but that didn't stop me from being p!ssed and going to that "If you really loved me..." place. I also had thoughts of, "when you weren't here, things were so much easier. I didn't have to worry about anyone but me." See how that black/white thing causes trouble.
But, I knew I needed to just slow down and feel. I was angry, I was hurt and I could see resentment right around the corner. (Meditation folks, meditation can do wonders.) Luckily I had an IC appt on Monday and I was able to say 'here's where I am and I don't want to get stuck here.' In DB we learn that for the other person to change, we have to change. I wasn't so much inviting him to a movie as I was stating an expectation.
Life is full of little moments like that. Piecing is work. It's not terrible but it is work. It's so easy to fall into old patterns of relating. New shoes are shiny and pretty but sometimes they hurt our feet.
I'm learning more about taking care of me and not expecting others to do it for me. I'm taking more time off work.(I have lots of PTO built up). I'm going to a 6 day meditation/educational retreat the end of this month. It's for me but will also give me tools to help the folks I work with. It may even lead to a new sideline for me.
I'm thinking about doing an art workshop in June. It's $$$ and money is a trigger for me, so this is going to take some wrestling, my not good enough self vs my good enough self.
I read an article about anxiety yesterday and it was a good reminder of how far I've come. This was me: As I grew up, school filled me with constant stress and if I wasn’t doing well or maintaining my GPA, it was the end of the world. Perfectionism is something that comes with anxiety; always doing well and being successful is vital in life.
Showing up on time was completely vital in every situation and the chance of me ever being late to practice or class or games was slim to none. I was always the first to everything. We need that becomes sometimes we forget. We should celebrate the positives.
I'm still usually early but that's not a bad thing, it's the stressing about it that's bad.
So it's been a good year overall. Did reconciling make my hear fabulous and perfect? No. Am I happy that we reconciled? Yes but life is still life. As I like to say, some days are diamonds, some days are coal. You do what you gotta do and don't worry about tomorrow. We take care of that one when it gets here.
I think New Year's Day is my favorite holiday, out with the old, in with the new.
Happy New Year!
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
That is a profound post Bug!! Wishing you an amazing new year!!
Me:45 ExW:48 M:04/97 3 Bombs & 2 ReCons 1st BD 11/10 D Finalized 4/20 D-16 S-14 Going in one more round when you don't think you can. That's what makes all the difference in life.~Rocky Balboa
...Showing up on time was completely vital in every situation and the chance of me ever being late to practice or class or games was slim to none. I was always the first to everything.
We need that reflection because sometimes we forget. We should celebrate the positives.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
a. I stopped judging me so harshly and that allowed me to work on not judging others. I still judge but when it happens, I remind myself, not my circus...-or ask myself, Did anyone ask for my help or my opinion?
b. I continue to work toward strong emotional boundaries. I used to not only feel responsible for others, I also absorbed their feelings. I was on whatever crazy ride my friend or family member was on. It kept me in almost constant fight or flight, very out of balance. If you live with someone with a mental illness, this is a must but it's important for everyone.
c. I learned to say no. If I'm doing things I don't want to do, I have no one to blame but myself.
d. I'm learning to say Yes to the right things.
2. I have a right to all my feelings and I take responsibility for all my feelings.
3. I live in today, I let go of the past, I'll take care of tomorrow when it gets here. Do I have long range plans? Sure, a few. Like the trip the end of this month, but I'm not going to worry about the particulars other than what I can control today.
4. I'm working hard to let go of attachments, in the unhealthy sense, to people, places and things.
I think that's it.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
It aint the end of the world is right. Love saying that to either or thinkers. Happy New Year Bugsy
Thanks, Rick. I'm so happy that things are moving in a positive direction for you.
The world used to come perilously close to ending for me on a regular basis. :0 With my nervous system constantly on alert like that, I'm amazed that I had just slight hypertension.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Thank you so much for the kind way you've led me in 2014. I appreciate your patience and your daily attentiveness.
I hope you decided to do the art workshop and that your meditation retreat has been refreshing for you.
I hope things with your younger son are moving in the direction he needs them to and that you've found an effective way to cope.
I hope your marriage is satisfying and that you are happy with where you are.
I hope your break is refreshing too. You are so incredibly generous, the number of people you help and threads you keep straight. The time and energy it takes to respond to all that pain. I hope you give yourself credit for that amazing gift. Sometimes when you talk about yourself you sound more like a person aspiring to be healthy than a woman who knows what a blessing she is to others. Please keep that in your mind when you're tempted to be hard on yourself. I'm guilty of being very much a taker with you. You are in my thoughts and prayers.
((((((Labug)))))
Wish I could do more.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
Hi bugsy! As you've noticed.. I've changed my name. Just couldn't stand seeing barely anymore. Made me feel so victimized. you seem so at peace. Such a nice place to be compared to a couple of years ago...
Me:38.. H:33. Two beautiful kids S:6 D:3 M:8.. together for 11. Bomb dropped:10/17/11 Separated:11/07/11
I am pretty peaceful. Believe me it's a surprise sometimes. I had a long talk with my IC a few weeks ago because I thought there was something wrong with me, I wasn't overreacting to things as had been my way for so long. She assured me that it was fine. It actually scared me a bit.
Best to you.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
My S26 who moved to Canada to be with his GF has a broken heart. She's done with him and the issue is something that's been brewing for quite a while. It's basically about money but it's also about his immaturity. He wasn't keeping to his agreements with her, she allowed that to go on, he kept promising things would change, things would change for a while and then back to status quo, she got resentful, kept putting up with his lack of investment in changing but finally had had it. Sound familiar?
There's been a lot of texting back and forth between S and I over the last couple of days but I think he has a plan now. He still wants the R to work but he has a lot of growing up to do and ground to make up. The good thing is he is taking full responsibility for his transgressions. But it just hurts so d@mn much.
I would love for him to come home but he (and I) knows it's best that he stay there and learn to be self-sufficient, stand on his own 2 feet.
It's been really hard not try to fix this for him. Not that I could but when at hearing the sobs over the phone it was all I could do to refrain from buying an airline ticket.
I've said many things to him that are in DR and that we say here. Maybe I should copy Cadet's welcome post and send to S26.
He'll be OK, he's very busy with school and a new job. He's never been "alone" before. He's never had to be 100% responsible for his food and shelter. (the crux of his current difficulties) He went from our home, to school with roommates, to living with her.
His friends there were her friends so that's concerning to me but he's making friends at his job. He said last night "they're all I have here."
I know that I have a very different perspective on this having gone through the process, having learned what I've learned. I know that the only way through it is through it. I hope I can provide the support and comfort to allow him to grow as he needs to grow.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
That's has to be difficult as a parent. Also, you have to be proud at the same time to see him make progress.
Interesting how detachment works in all areas of our lives. Thanks for sharing Bug.
Me:45 ExW:48 M:04/97 3 Bombs & 2 ReCons 1st BD 11/10 D Finalized 4/20 D-16 S-14 Going in one more round when you don't think you can. That's what makes all the difference in life.~Rocky Balboa
Part of growing bugsy. He will be fine. He knows in the back of his skull that he has supportive parents. He is young and will come out of this faster than us
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
In other news, S22's IC thinks he's ready to go to biweekly appts. His situation is improving, hes making small steps forward all the time.
Yes, LITB, it is all about detachment. Letting them take the lead and having faith that they can handle whatever life brings. I've realized that my "helping" sends the message that I don't think they can handle things without me. I want to send the opposite message.
Last edited by labug; 02/28/1505:02 PM.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
I am so happy to hear that things are improving. Let go and let God, right?
((((LAbug))))
Me & H: 44 D7, D6, S3 Together: 20y, M: 17y EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10 EA becomes PA: Spring 2011 H filed for D: 09/06/12 D Negotiating began 2/15 OW seemingly gone on 3/15 Still negotiating D
I'm going to post this here in my thread although infidelity wasn't a cause for my marital BD.
There's a great podcast called Death Sex & Money. Google and look for the episode Cheating Happens. It's an honest look at cheating from people who have been on both sides of it. There is no judgment, so if you're looking for that you won't find it there.
Some of you may not be ready to hear it, if you're still really raw, you may not want to go there.
But the last guy who talks about his W cheating sounds like he could have DBd.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
The more you learn, the more you learn. I can remember early in my journey of finding me, how overwhelming it all seemed. There was so much I needed to do. In those days uncovering one issue and working on it usually resulted in finding another. I really didn't see how I could do it.
But I hung on, trusting my IC when she said it was doable. Celebrating the little successes (if there really are "little" successes) and letting the knowledge I gained become a part of me, a new foundation for the successrs to come.
It is not a linear journey and I learned to be OK with that. It was difficult for me because I had the mistaken belief that mistakes are failures, and anything less than success is unacceptable.
I missed out on learning that everyone makes mistakes and that mistakes are important to changing, growing. If we never make mistakes we're never trying anything new, we're stagnant.
And that's where I was, stagnant, unhappy, filled with fear and blaming it all on someone else.
What I've recently realized is how much of me I held back due to being afraid of rejection. I've lived with the belief that no one could really love me, (refer to paragraphs above, mistakes=failures=not lovable) so I hid me and created the hardened, tough, witty, wise-cracking, sarcastic, angry exterior, guarding my vulnerability. Forgoing happiness for fear of pain.
I was many different people back then, not pathologically but rather I waited for signals from others on how to respond to them or a situation. If they seemed happy, I could act happy and tried to do more of whatever created the happiness. If they seemed angry, I was sure it was due to me and would try to figure out what I could do to get them happy.
I must have thought I had magic powers and was responsible for those with whom I had contact.
I hadn't yet learned that others are responsible for their feelings just as I'm responsible for mine.
If someone's words or actions evoke a strong response from me, I need to look closer cause they're just shining a light on something that I'm already feeling or opening an old wound that I need to heal.
This brings me to honesty, openness, vulnerability. I needed to learn to be honest about my emotions both with myself and those I love. I don't let things fester. If I'm angry, I talk about that and try to do it in a loving, compassionate way.
When I'm sad, I express that, grieve, and with time, move on.
The biggest change for me has been expressing happiness. If I'm happy, I work to show that. I was a "waiting for the other shoe to drop" person. If I was too happy, I held it back cause that meant the universe might repay me with a real sadness.
I've learned that there is no giant scorekeeper in the sky keeping track of rights and wrongs and meting out reward or punishment. That scorekeeper was just a thought in my mind, like many other thoughts that keep us stuck in our unhappy stagnant place.
It's a risk to be vulnerable because we might be hurt when we open ourselves up. And we wonder "what does it mean about me when I allow my vulnerability and someone rejects me?" After getting clarification from the person (sometimes what we hear is not what the speaker intended), maybe it's a signal that that person isn't right for your life no matter what the R is.
So I've been walking on the wild-side of vulnerability. Saying what I mean, meaning what I say. Being honest with my emotions, allowing room and respect for my anger as well as my happiness.
I have to learn to be honest and compassionate with myself before I can offer that to others.
I stop myself from taking on the emotions of others and trying to help them feel better.
We're all only responsible for this one life we've been given.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
from a friend: (I) blamed myself for everything and tried to be "better." I just recently discovered I don't need validation from others (although, sure, it's nice) to know who I am. Since that change the people who undervalued are dropping like flies. I no longer give them my energy. When you undervalue yourself, you attract others that undervalue you as well. I finally see that. So happy to get that message.
BaZinga!
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Yeah...separating the wheat from the chaff when it comes to friendships. I pick people who are supportive, loyal, and nourishing. If they don't meet these basic criteria, they're reduced to being outside in the outer circle in the acquaintance status or a nobody.
At my age, I feel more freer to do things on MY own terms. Less complicated life. Makes for a much more peaceful life, no?
Yeah...separating the wheat from the chaff when it comes to friendships. I pick people who are supportive, loyal, and nourishing. If they don't meet these basic criteria, they're reduced to being outside in the outer circle in the acquaintance status or a nobody.
At my age, I feel more freer to do things on MY own terms. Less complicated life. Makes for a much more peaceful life, no?
I wrote something very similar on MB's thread yesterday. When we know who we are and claim our place in the world, the chaff does just fall away.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Wonka, we had the wheat and chaff gospel reading a month or so back. Funny you brought that up. (BTW, I love the word chaff...)
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I wrote something very similar on MB's thread yesterday. When we know who we are and claim our place in the world, the chaff does just fall away.
If I have to sum up the #1 positive about being over 50, this is it! It wasn't a switch or anything that turned on and off, but in general, my entire "theme" after turning 50 was to make all of this worth the effort. And in general, if people don't support me, they are also relegated to the category of acquaintances with little to no influence.
For whatever reason (age + effort I put forth in my 40s?), I find it so much easier to be the me I want to be now. Not the me I think they want me to be or worse... the me that "they" think I *should* be. I'm a whole lot more comfortable in my own skin now than I was even 10 years ago. It makes me infinitely glad I pressed through those tough years in the 40s. The same ones as you had, Bug, where I had to evaluate and challenge my own flawed belief system and how I had to be right.
LOL, when I went to the medium a few weeks ago, she told me not to feel bad about being right - because I usually am. I literally busted out laughing. I'll keep that my secret and just keep working on hearing others and listening instead. Being right has its advantages, though. I've found the more silent I keep about it, the more people seek out my advice and genuinely want to hear my opinion. Leading that pack is my XH (which makes me laugh even more).
Carry on, and thanks for your musings. They keep me honest too.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Maybell, you don't owe me anything. Thanks for the kind thoughts about my son. He's getting through his heartbreak and will be a better man for it. It really opened his eyes to things he needed to work on. He's still feeling the pain of rejection but it's part of the process.
And Bets, challenging our flawed belief system is so scary at first isn't. I just saw a video of the Allegory of the Cave, it takes a lot of courage to move out of the cave.
Thank you, sistas!
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
I'm a true believer that our children are our teachers in middle age, and we are students of many lessons. That's why our kids are very different, with different paths, different needs and different ways that they need to be parented and guided. There is no cookie cutter here, and it's definitely not one size fits all.
I'm very glad that none of you here knew me before I had kids (or before the bomb day). My kids have provided me with a wealth of education that will probably continue until they bury me. But the hardest thing of parenting is watching your kiddo suffer with emotional pain. The only thing we can do is to let them know they are loved and that we are there for them if they need us.
It's not only scary to challenge our belief systems, it's terrifying. It's kind of like a betrayal, and we are our own betrayers. Watching myself attempt to hammer a square peg into a round hole wasn't exactly uplifting. The worst part is that I truly believed that more effort hammering would make things work out in the end. I was just too stuck in my mindset to take a step back and see the other options that presented themselves when I let go of having my way.
The one thing I can say with absolute certainty and gratitude? My XH was the key player in moving me out of my fog and into the light. Without his bomb, I doubt I would have progressed as far. I'm truly grateful that he helped me along in my own growth.
It's the old saying... adapt or die? Survival of the fittest at its best!
Speaking of this topic, I don't know if you follow Jeanette Maw. She does work with the laws of attraction and I got her e-mail today on holding on loosely and letting go. It was a good read, especially for a Monday. I'm holding on to some anxiety, and her way works best for me when I let go of the problem and allow the solution to appear.
It's days like this that make me really appreciate having sistas in this cyberspace. I mean that.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
The one thing I can say with absolute certainty and gratitude? My XH was the key player in moving me out of my fog and into the light. Without his bomb, I doubt I would have progressed as far. I'm truly grateful that he helped me along in my own growth.
It's the old saying... adapt or die? Survival of the fittest at its best!
Ditto. Occasionally I will mutter a silent "thank you" to Ms. Wonka before going to bed for the tremendous personal (and spiritual) growth this lesson has presented to me.
Absolu-freakin'-ly spot on. We've survived and THRIVED, baby!
Yes, Bets and Wonka, without My H's push out of the nest, I'm not sure what would have happened. I was in a very dark place.
Betsey, I hope that whatever is causing your anxiety is lessening. My go to for that is meditation or simply, going back to the breath, even for just a few minutes.
It's interesting that you bring up the square peg round hole analogy because I feel that's what my battle has been with S22. I keep saying I'm going to let go and allow but I never really get there. I "allow" all the societal expectations of a 22 yr old male to stir me up and then I'm back to hammering.
I've consciously been taking a bit of break with him. Not going to appts, not reminding him of commitments. No judging him.
I have a tendency to be a harsh judge of others, especially in regard to parenting.
I'm careful about that now because I don't know the whole story, I don't know the challenges others face. And frankly, it's none of my business.
Thanks for dropping by.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
I've consciously been taking a bit of break with him. Not going to appts, not reminding him of commitments. No judging him.
Being the mom of a 21 year old person, I know first hand how really difficult this must be for you. Sometimes, the answer is leaving the job of taking care of things on the table for someone to pick up. Actually, that was my very first assignment from our MC when we first separated. I had a tendency to snap up jobs because they weren't being done on my timeframe or the way I wanted the process to go. It was not an incentive to my family members to take on more of the family load. So good for you for taking the right steps, Bug.
Societal expectations are not always healthy. Sure, it would be nice to have a son or daughter who, after turning 18, miraculously took charge of their own train. But it really doesn't happen that way for lots of people.
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I'm careful about that now because I don't know the whole story, I don't know the challenges others face. And frankly, it's none of my business.
This would be a truly wonderful world if everyone adopted this strategy. If it's any consolation, I sometimes struggle with this as well. But it's usually in times of neglect or abuse... or perceived ineptitude at parenting decisions. Like the parents who let their 8 and 9 year olds ride the train in NYC. I'm a firm believer in modest supervision that is age and situation appropriate. Anyway, it's not always easy. I think my own growth in this area came because I am the parent of a special needs person. It forced me to open my eyes and to see things through the lens of compassion.
Bug, it hasn't been until the past few years that I've publicly accepted my anxiety issues. I think it helped that I can see this familial trait in my extended family on my mom's side. There are lots of things that trigger those fear responses, but I actively work at the laws of attraction and finding ways of calming myself without medication. I will never be cured, and some spots in life are easier than others.
I seem to have hit the trifecta of triggers - losing 2 people close to me in less than 9 months, along with the legal and physical transition of taking my special needs kiddo to adult services, and now I have a large client who got the green light for a very big installation back in January, yet I still don't have the purchase order. This company has a big blue ball and Mark Cuban as the current celebrity marketing tool, and my cash flow has been seriously derailed by this. I'm literally down to my last few dollars in the company checkbook with current liabilities and I'm a work in process when it comes to the laws of attraction. I had hoped that this issue finally left my work life last year. Anyway, I recognize it for what it is: stress.
I've also added another potential pothole in that my D21 will only be home for the first 2 weeks this summer before returning to NY for her 12 week internship. This is a shorter interval than Christmas break, and while I really am excited for her and this opportunity, I'm sad for me, her sister and her dad. I know she's not thrilled about it either, so I'm working hard at trying to be level headed about this whole thing. If I don't, it's another way of viewing the square peg round hole syndrome. My work in this decade seems to be uniquely focused on immediately accepting "what is" and getting balanced as quickly as possible. It is a strategy that works if I get on board fast.
Sorry for dumping here... but maybe there are lessons for all of us here in this mess? I do need to find some time to meditate and pray. Lately, I've had a hostile schedule and when my head hits the pillow, I'm out. I've been painting - recently it's been 2 bedrooms for my guest room/D21 room swap. For some reason, although I'm aching up on ladders, I find the whole process calming. I need a break from painting walls, so my next project are some furniture pieces. Slopping on paint seems to be something that calms me.
Here's to shining light on dark places. Sometimes, it's only the mini flashlight, but that's better than nothing.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
I think changes and transitions FORCE us to stretch out in ways that were far out of our comfort zones at times. Some with foot-dragging resistance because of our imaginary or unfounded fears on how those changes impacts us. Funny how our little egos play games with/or against the flow of change.
Wonka, my opinion is that transition always causes change but the change can be positive or negative. How many people do we know and interact with on a daily basis who fall deeper and deeper into pity party awfulizing? It's all someone else's fault, it'snot fair, bad things always happen to me.
I was one of those people to a degree until I decided that I could be who I wanted to be. In this case, the fault was not in the stars.
I like Pema Chodron's explanation of karma, "People get into a heavy-duty sin and guilt trip, feeling that if things are going wrong, that means that they did something bad and they are being punished. That's not the idea at all. The idea of karma is that you continually get the teachings that you need to open your heart. To the degree that you didn't understand in the past how to stop protecting your soft spot, how to stop armoring your heart, you're given this gift of teachings in the form of your life, to give you everything you need to open further." I know I missed transformational change opportunities because I wasn't in a place to move out of my comfort zone, as unhappy as it was.
Luckily I kept getting more chances.
About parenting, there's never an excuse for abuse, physical or verbal. Even when the excuse for hitting is doing it "out of love"
S22's neurologic disorder adds to his confusing picture. It's so difficult to know what's enough and what's too much in light of his abilities/disabilities.
So for now I've decided (yet again) to let it be his problem, which it should be.
Betsey, can't imagine the stress related to a big deal like that wavering. But like most things in life, we have little control. I'm sure you've taken care of what you control. (( ))
Thanks to you both for giving me things to think about.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Thank you for the Pema reference re. karma. Love it.
Hope you are doing well, dear friend.
PS - The gals are coming over next weekend. Wish you could join us too. We'll toast in your honor!
(((((bug)))))
Me & H: 44 D7, D6, S3 Together: 20y, M: 17y EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10 EA becomes PA: Spring 2011 H filed for D: 09/06/12 D Negotiating began 2/15 OW seemingly gone on 3/15 Still negotiating D
Hello I never written anything before but read so much of what you strong people have gone through ! Can anyone tell me where I can find the post about mutiPoe returns and getting over other woman ? Also coming back too soon thank you linda w
This is huge because of the difference in who I was when I walked in to her office the first time and who I am now. She has definitely kept me moving forward without pushing. I've shed a lot of layers in that office and she's seen and heard both the best of me and the worst of me.
Thanks for reminding me and the reminder to breathe. I got to my IC appt this morning and spent a few moments before going in doing just that.
