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#2474148 07/30/14 04:51 PM
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So I've been lurking here for a couple days, decided to register as it looks like so many people here have gone through what I am going through. Long story, but I will try to get to the point of where I am as quickly as possible.

WAW and I have been together 24 years, married 14 with one child. She left in November ... took till January to admit there was a OM which I suspected but she denied constantly. I really wish I would have found this site the day after she left I think I would have avoided so many mistakes I made .... but over the past couple months I have actially been doing alot of the DB suggestions not knowing it at the time through the help of some friends and my IC.


Since she left me I have done some good things with myself, I changed jobs and have done very well with my new one, type of job I dress well every day, better hours with alot more freedom to take time off for my son ( Never had that before). I found myself ... found God and have been going to church and reading the bible, giving my worries to Him which has helped me ten fold, take my son every time and she has actually been going with us .. she was more religious than I was but not anymore. I've been working really hard at being patience ... its so difficult for me but baby steps I am improving in that area. I am getting my motorcycle license in the next couple weeks... something I always wanted to do but never wanted to deal with that fight with her.

We hit a bit of a turning point a couple weeks ago. I had discovered through an innocent talk with her sister, that back in April/May when the WAW and I were going to MC (Was not working and we stopped after only 3 sessions after WAW had a blow up with the MC *red flag here).... anyways the sister told me that the OM was nothing like the man I am, he is self centered and all about himself ... told me he forgot her birthday and mothers day and that upset the WAW ... also upset me because she had told me he was out of the picture and she had not seen nor spoke to him which later I discover was all a lie. Anyways I was upset/betrayed (again) and set some pretty firm boundaries (IC idea) ... which upset her and we had a fight. I am not one to yell or name call ... but that day I did ... I actually felt good about what I called her, I know it hurt her but its like I needed to say it ... as far as I was concerned the marriage and relationship were over and I chose to start living my life for me at that point. That night I told her I just wanted to get through the D peacefully and be done with it. She had started the process back in March but stopped after I was there for her during a medical issue she had (We had not had sex in 3 years over what we were lead to believe was a medical condition ... turns out she is all better and has had sex with him ... something I am still trying to come to terms with) .. making her want to try to save our marriage back in April and May (Little did I know the OM was still in the picture).



Currently it feels like she is on the ropes, she has been making contact texting me throughout the day .. sharing her day and thoughts .. I have been polite and positive ..even supportive and avoiding at all costs any R type talk. When I drop off our son she gives me a nice hug. She tells me she is alone (I don't buy it .. I know the OM is still in the picture I just think he is not as available as she wants). She will text/call me late at night ... she cant sleep I will text back but not really engage in any R talk. She asked me a couple days ago if I was ok .. I told her I had a rough therapy apppt and am still trying to deal with some things (Its hard to hide anything from a woman who knows you in and out), but bottom line I was sorry for everything I put her through in our marriage ... sincerely apologized and told her I just wanted her happy. She replied that she isn't happy because the R she has with the OM "Isn't complete" ... I took this as a win .. baby steps .. through out the past 8 months she leaves little cracks open like this that I used to jump at ... I just left this one alone and told her I hope she had a nice day and I left. She has a habit of using me emotionally and once she feels all better she casts me aside, I get frustrated with that but have started to really detach so its helped.

Anyways thats where I am at currently... the limbo kills me .. I do find myself obsessing over her constantly but I do not engage in contacting her... I have been good about that. I have issues with the affair and what she has done ... but I would love to work this marriage out, just took me a long time to realize she needs to come back on her own .. me manipulating her will not result in anything long term.


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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So reading here ... and I really like to say what a great forum this is, people are positive and seem to be truly pro marriage and its refreshing as all the things I have gone through I know it would be a quick reaction to say run and start your life, I just dont want a life without my family, her , and my son ... but I know I can not say that aloud

So today she texted me ... apologizing for last night, I really didn't think much of it but looking at the exchange it seems the OM somehow disappointed her or something happened. She seemed to be trying to take it out on me and I deflected and basically wished her a good rest of her night and left it at that. She told me this morning that "Its my personal life I'm tormented by, I just need to get away alone" I didnt engage and wished her a good day. We have our free consultation with the mediator tomorrow, I know its been wrecking her as this is as close as we have been to actual divorce talks. I dont think deep down she wants this ...

Some back ground so you Vets can possibly shed some light. Her mother was diagnosed Bi-Polar, as was her sister .. reading up on this she is right at the age .. 42 .. so that mixed in with a little MLC and I have been on one hell of a ride .. factor in I was not always engaged emotionally with the increase of fights over the past couple years.

I have spent the time we have been seperated working on me, I lost about 20 lbs ... better job, I DJ'd 3 nights a week (Thurs/Fri/Sat) and I dropped all but the Friday nights ... still paying off some bills with that gig (This was a sore spot as it left her alone alot ... I have apologized for this and know it was a mistake to be gone)

So now I have taken a stance to not apologize or engage in talks about the past .. she loves to rehash ... and I just dont see the point. she has been texting me all day telling me about her work, the stress she is under and I have replied with the validation tips from this site.

I will keep adding as we go as that seems to be the way things work here .. thanks for the site and the ear.


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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Hey, Cali,

Welcome though I'm sorry you find yourself here. It's a great place and it seems like you're on the right track. It's hard but stop trying to analyze every little thing. Get out, GAL, do awesome things with your son, hang out with old friends, volunteer at your church... Basically, take care of you. This helps a lot with the pain and allows you to take deep breaths again. Stop being so available. You're busy. Get a life. You'll feel less like you're in limbo but you will still need patience (something I'm having trouble learning).

Others will have advice about handling the OM, I'm not experienced in that dept. you're amongst friends so post often.

See ya around.

Ss


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
D: 7
Bomb: 6/30/14
Separation: 8/11/14

Be strong enough to let go and wise enough to wait for what you deserve.
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Welcome to the board, Caliguy! Have you read DB or DR yet? If not, get on it asap.

Looks like you've got a decent start on detaching. Pat on the back. This is by far the trickiest part to navigate through. How the heck does one try to detach lovingly and GAL when one is desperately trying to hang on to what little he/she has left of the M? You try and then you try some more. It feels counter intuitive but detaching also known as pulling back or going dark gives your W the space she needs to get a taste of what life is like without you--even if it means she's spending all her time with the OM. Yeah, this $ucks big time but if she is absolutely determined to see it through then...

I've yet to confirm if my H is having an A but I suspect it. What other motivation(s) do spouses have for wanting to leave a M in such a hurry? So, even though I haven't confirmed it, I act "as if' he is. This way there's no surprises. It helps me mentally prepare myself for the worst so all those scary emotions that come with the "what if's" are already dealt with. There's no need to react with fresh pain every time I learn something new about my H good/bad.

I am sorry that she couldn't be up front with you about OM and that you had to ask her repeatedly when you kind already knew. I think i'm on that road myself except mine takes in interesting twist. I can't wait to talk with my DB coach tomorrow because my hope tank is dangerously low. If you can definitely check out the DB coaching. Use them for R advice and use your IC for working on you.

A few things: be best friends with limbo otherwise it will eat at you every waking minute. But, don't think of it as limbo. Rather think of it as time she has given you to work on yourself. Not her; you. If you're sincere about working on your M then change has to first start with you. Are you ready to do some deep soul searching? What are your flaws/short comings? What were her complaints about you in the M? What are your 180's?

Read. Read. Read. Learn as much as you can about yourself, your M, communication skills...etc. Check out the following books: "DR/DB or both but DR is more current", Gary Chapman's "The Five Love Languages", and if you're the spiritual sort there's James Dobson's "Love Must Be Tough", Ed Wheat's "Love Life for Every Married Couple, John Eldredge's "Wild at Heart" (this one is more for you.) If you're really ambitious check out Travis Bardberry's "Emotional Intelligence 2.0." The info on some of these books may appear to conflict with each other or even with DR/DB. So, it is up to you to take what you can from each and ditch the rest. The same applies for the advice you receive from others here. While we share a common misery each of our stitch are unique and therefore it's not a one size fits all kind of deal. Read Sandi's rules and Wonka's Validation cheat sheat. Use these as quick guidelines for help on daily encounters.

Keep all the positive changes going. Being a fantastic father to your S, taking care of yourself (look and smell good always), trying something new...basically be a man only a fool would leave. Remind her who you are and have always been--the man she fell in love with. Remember that guy? Bring him back. Who knows, you just may get a few stares that you'll actually enjoy.

The resounding message evident in GAL and detaching is putting the W on temporary hold while you work on you. This does not mean you have to stop feeling for her or accept that there's no hope for the M even though it may be a possibility. It means literally, friend zone her while you figure your stuff out. Let her initiate contact unless it's about your S.

I hope I've covered most of your important areas of concern. I like to be thorough but that can get really long. And, I'm in Cali too (just visiting) but I'm still on east coast time. Meanwhile here are a few posts from seasoned DBers that may provide a glimpse of hope.

This one is about going dark.

Originally Posted By: sparky
Going dark is the chance to work on you and to allow the spouse that left you to go through the journey they need to go through. If you start butting into that when they have made it clear that they don't want to be with you, then you come off as someone who is not honoring their request. You are short-circuiting the journey they have to go through to work out what is going on inside themselves.

There was obviously something very wrong that made them decide they wanted out in the first place. Oftentimes, it is probably the case that they are depressed and they have lost faith that anything can ever change. That patterns are set and are not reversible. It's a sign of depression to feel this kind of hopelessness.

One thing they knew for sure was that they did not want you in the picture. When people are depressed and confused about their identity like many people who request separations are, they become cognitively disorganized and impulsive in their choices. And when you are coming at them trying to make them stay with you, it just feels bad and like there's a pressure there to stay where they were.

And they don't want to stay where they were. They are wanting big changes. And if you stay the same as you always have been, and are unwilling to allow them to go on the journey that they need, or you are setting agendas about how they need to be, you just look like a controlling wench or [censored]. You become a representation of what they were trying to get away from.

As long as you keep pressuring them, you don't stand a chance. You will remain the embodiment of those bad feelings they are having. You will be something to avoid. You will make it very easy for them to continue to project or blame you for the bad feelings that reside inside of them.

If they are alone with those bad feelings still lingering inside, and you are nowhere in the vicinity, then perhaps they will begin to see that the pain they were feeling was really about something unhealed inside of them rather than something about you. You need to cut that link between bad feelings and you.

If you want there to ever be a future between you and your spouse, I believe you have to let your spouse take the journey that is rightfully theirs, even if they way they are communicating that to you [censored]. Even if it hurts like nothing else you've ever felt. If you love them, you have to let them go through that.

And you can't keep looking over to see if they are done yet. It's suffocating. Instead, this is your chance to learn new things. Walk around in your feelings and see what is unhealed in you that makes it so easy for you to feel crazy about this crappy situation in which you find yourself.

You have the gift of time now, and the focusing energy of pain. Don't feel all of this pain without getting your money's worth. Surrender to what is really happening. Face it head on. Summer in the MLC area says that you should stay dark UNLESS your spouse initiates a contact.

For me, there have been two main contacts. First, he called me several weeks ago, and we ended up talking for over an hour. Then, he told me that he wanted to meet with me to tell me some "news." At first, I did not meet with him, because I was not ready to feel more pain. I knew the news wasn't going to be good. But last week, I finally decided to recontact him and tell him that I was ready to meet to hear his news.

His news was that he was seeing the woman I had at first feared he was seeing. But I met when I was good and ready, and it was actually a really productive and authentic contact. I was ready to be calm and not plead and hear his news. And I think that even though he is with another woman, this contact was a good one, even though it was about painful stuff.

When I allow my husband to be the initiator, then he has to know that he wanted to see me. And from being dark, I, Sparky, have actually become a bit mysterious to my husband - which is hilarious, becase I'm the least mysterious person you will ever meet. And he was intrigued. And I liked it. And I'm going to keep doing this because I thing that not only is it "working," but I'm using all this time to grow as I never thought I would.

The worst thing that ever happened to me has been the best thing that ever happened to me. And even though I still feel a lot of pain, I mean that sincerely.


Here's Sandi's rules.

Originally Posted By: Sandi2

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.

21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes


And finally, WOnka's Validation Cheat Sheat.
Originally Posted By: Wonka

"Sorry I interrupted you, I value what you have to say, please continue."

"You may be right." For surprising information: "Wow, you think (my computer time was detrimental to the kids)?"

For new info: "Gosh, I didn't realize you thought (I was neglecting the family)."

"I hadn't thought of it that way"
"I can see how it would feel that way"
"I do care. Tell me more about what you're going through"
"I am gonna have to think about that a little more"
"Hmmm, so you are saying xxx. Let me think about that"
"I can see you're really serious about this"
"I see this is important to you"
"I'd like to respond to you when I'm feeling a little less emotional about this"
"I understand why you might feel that way"
"Gee, I'm so sorry that made you feel unloved. I never stopped loving you, but I guess I didn't express myself well enough."
"Gee, it must have felt terrible to think that"
"I am sorry that you feel that way"
"I appreciate you being so open and honest with me"

Try and use "Would, will" statements. Do not say "should, could" if you can!!

"Wow, that's a lot to deal with"
"That sounds discouraging"
"That sounds like it would really hurt"
"It sounds like you are really feeling xxxxx"
"It sounds like xxxxx is really important to you"
"I can see that you are really upset"
"Would you like to talk about it"
"That really bothered you, didn't it?"
"How did you feel when xxxxxx?"
"What bothers you the most about it"
"What would help you feel better"
"I can see you are really uncomfortable about this"
"I can understand why you would be upset"
"So, you really felt insulted (or whatever emotion), is that it"

If H/W talks, just listen. Keep your questions impersonal.

WAS: I saw our friend Bob yesterday.
You: Oh? How is he doing?

WAS: I went out to that bar last weekend.
You: Did you have a good time?

WAS: I'm going to Tennessee this weekend.
You: Ok, I hope you have a nice time.

If H/W asks you questions, answer but be vague--don't launch into huge details.

WAS: How was your weekend?
You: Great, went out with some friends and had a good time.

WAS: Where were you last night?
You: I was at the gym.

WAS: What are you doing tonight?
You: Probably going out to dinner.

Validate his/her feelings, let his/her know you agree with him/her when that is true, but avoid criticism when you don't agree. you don't have to pretend to agree if you think he/she's wrong, but you can say it in a diplomatic way, like "I think differently, but I understand your reasons for feeling that way." (and then don't continue to argue about it.)


So there. This should be enough info for you to mull on for the next couple of days. Post often and hang it there. You're not alone!


M:33
H:37
T:6 years
M:3 years
ILYBNIWY:5-22-14

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Cali,
Being new here, I feel I don't have much to add except, I feel for you and understand that the limbo part of this is the hardest.
I feel the same way - but understand that it is giving us time - and maybe time is hope.


Me-45 W-44
S21, S18, D15
T-27, M-21
BD Jan 2014
PA revealed March 2014
In-house separation - April 2015
I filed - Aug 2015
She moved out Oct 2015
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SO much great advice and for the most part I do feel like I am on track. I have not read the book yet, ordered it a few days ago so look to have it soon. This weekend she is taking my son up to see some of her family, just as well as I have signed up for a motorcycle course.....she does not know this I only told her I have plans all weekend. I had our S last night and as always he and I have a great time together, he feels safe with me plus the fact that shortly after she left me she made play dates with the OM and his kids, my son I think seen right through it.
Last night S calls his mom to say goodnight ... we do this every night when he is with the other. She sounds really down, after he said goodnight she text'd me and asked me if we could talk if I didn't she would understand, I replied once I put him down I was open to it. The past few days seems something is really going on with her. So I am sitting there and she called I told her I would call her right back (I didn't want to talk and have my son listen or hear). So I took my time and gathered myself, prayed, found center and called her back 15 minutes later.
Talk was ok, nothing pressing at first I was detached keeping things light... told her I took a 1/2 day just for me and went to the beach ... she was shocked. I did get a chance to tell her she has held onto the bad in our M and was re-writing our history.
Our Mediation is later today and I thought that might be bothering her but is didn't seem that way. She continuously said she is alone, worried she will die alone, like I said before I think the OM is still in the picture but just not as available as he once was ... maybe he is getting a taste of life with her .. she admittedly is not easy to be with all the time. She did probe a bit with me... I dropped a hint I am looking to rent a house with a friend ... she asked right away if it was a female and I told her yes ... seemed to bug her, told her I work with this person and its a mutual want that we would both like a house and I wanted out S to have his own room .. but nothing was there as far as a romantic level with this person. She did not like the fact I was "guarded" during the conversation, I did not really address it... told her I refuse to rehash the past nor fight with her. She is still upset over the name I called her a couple weeks ago and hung up the phone crying. Thing is ... I know its bad .. but seems that after I called her that, seems she started really thinking about what she wase doing ... I do not know if she is going through a Bi-Polar Manic phase, MLC, or what .. I did tell her that as a friend I thought she should really see a IC, her work is very stressful and will be till Sept and she says she doesn't have any time ... she doesn't talk to anyone during work or after (I don't buy it) ... she asked how I cope with being alone. I simply told her I have been staying busy and working on myself and left it at that.
This morning I dropped of S and she looked tired, was not ready for work as she usually is ... I asked if she was ok .. she nodded (not convincing) and I resisted the urge to press nor give her a hug even though it looked like she wanted/needed one .. just told her I hope she had a nice day and I left.


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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Sorry to find you here, but I second this is the best place to be if you need the strength, resources and even a chance to win your marriage back.

Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
She did probe a bit with me... I dropped a hint I am looking to rent a house with a friend ... she asked right away if it was a female and I told her yes ... seemed to bug her, told her I work with this person and its a mutual want that we would both like a house and I wanted out S to have his own room .. but nothing was there as far as a romantic level with this person. She did not like the fact I was "guarded" during the conversation, I did not really address it... told her I refuse to rehash the past nor fight with her.


You really need to read DR. The question we always ask is " Is what I am doing driving my WAW closer or farther away from me?" Letting her know you were moving in with a female friend is childish and tit-for-tat. If your goal was to get her wall up again and shut down when she was looking to find someone to validate and listen to her and STFU then you failed. You need to reestablish that you are a safe place and remind her why she married you in the first place....that OM is not even an option in this area. This in DB forum's is called getting a 2x4 to the head...I have had the vets here give plenty of bruises so just know I am being hard here cause I want you to win. Next time I would just be "yeah I am moving in with someone" and then drop the conversation...she can find out later on but at your chosing.
If I can do it you can do it. GAL do the shocking 180s like you taking 1/2 day off to go to the beach....things that would suprise your wife but also bring health into your relationship. For me, I just started to do things around the house quietly....I used to announce everything so she would KNOW I did it for her...Then all of a sudden the lawn was mowed and two days later she notices and is genuinely touched. oh and detach away. going to the gym or anything physical is excellent for this.

Ok in your corner keep us posted


Me 42 W:35
M: 14yrs T:15yrs
D: 8yrs D:6yrs S:3yrs
BD: "I want a D"09/03/14
Sep: 30/06/14

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Yeah rayzzz I have been thinking about the conversation .... trying not to obsess with the thoughts but have regrets letting to much out, I know her lease is up in November and in a way I wanted to put some pressure on her to want to fix us by then .. I know all this is wrong and I need to focus on me, and not worry about what she is doing nor her plans. Seems her A is not all its cracked up to be, she is very needy especially when she goes through these emotional roller coaster rides and I have always been able to calm her and get her out of the funk .... making it harder for me to detach because when its bad she knows she can call me.

I am not going to talk about the house hunting ... just letting it go

As far as the GAL ... I have been doing well ... I have the S 3 nights a week, during the week I plat softball, I have been jogging , Saturday nights church and I rarely miss.... Sunday mornings I play football. All the physical activity I dropped close to 20 lbs, she bought me a shirt for fathers day and said its the first time she had to go down a size ... a little win and baby steps.

I struggle with the detaching part, I have stopped asking about the OM or bringing up the A ... but I see how badly she is hurt and struggling, she has said the past few days she feels totally alone (I used to tell her that was her choice not mine). REading all this here I have it on my mind and will continue to work on it .... I have detached some .. but not to the point I think I need to ... I asked her if she was ok this morning knowing she wasn't ... I should have just wished her a good day and left it at that.


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
So reading here ... and I really like to say what a great forum this is, people are positive and seem to be truly pro marriage and its refreshing as all the things I have gone through I know it would be a quick reaction to say run and start your life, I just dont want a life without my family, her , and my son ... but I know I can not say that aloud

So today she texted me ... apologizing for last night, I really didn't think much of it but looking at the exchange it seems the OM somehow disappointed her or something happened. She seemed to be trying to take it out on me and I deflected and basically wished her a good rest of her night and left it at that. She told me this morning that "Its my personal life I'm tormented by, I just need to get away alone" I didnt engage and wished her a good day. We have our free consultation with the mediator tomorrow, I know its been wrecking her as this is as close as we have been to actual divorce talks. I dont think deep down she wants this ...

Some back ground so you Vets can possibly shed some light. Her mother was diagnosed Bi-Polar, as was her sister .. reading up on this she is right at the age .. 42 .. so that mixed in with a little MLC and I have been on one hell of a ride .. factor in I was not always engaged emotionally with the increase of fights over the past couple years.


Just so I am clear, are you suggesting she may be bi-polar? OR are you saying she's at the age for MLC? OR both? And also, how does that affect your choices in this situation?

In other words, is the A more understandable to you if she is bi-polar? (I know some bi-polar women act out that way).

Would the "diagnosis" change your course of action?



I have spent the time we have been seperated working on me, I lost about 20 lbs ... better job, I DJ'd 3 nights a week (Thurs/Fri/Sat) and I dropped all but the Friday nights ... still paying off some bills with that gig (This was a sore spot as it left her alone alot ... I have apologized for this and know it was a mistake to be gone)

So one difference if you were to reconcile, would be that Her love language of time together, would be "spoken" more b/c you'd make more time for her?

And you feel certain you have communicated this to her?

So now I have taken a stance to not apologize or engage in talks about the past .. she loves to rehash ... and I just dont see the point.


I hear you and a lot of MC's just rehash and then cement all the problems in one's head. But the Spouse who was unhappy enough to leave to have a PA, needs some reassurances that if they return, the marriage will not revert to what it was.

They won't come home unless they believe the marriage they left, can be better/different than before.

So how are you demonstrating that?


Also, next time she brings up the past, you can adopt one of the following "mantras" that tends to help things, without escalating. Just some suggestions.

Example 1 is when she brings up something painful to HER, which may have at least a thread of validity in it.

"W, I'm sorry I hurt you. IF I could do it all over again, there are lots of things I'd do differently."

Example 2 is for when she brings up something you do not recall at all, or very differently.

"W, wow I don't recall it that way at all - but I"m sorry you were hurt. If I had it all to do over again, there are lots of things I'd do differently."

Example 3 is when she brings up something that you have discussed ad nauseum and which you are certain you have already apologized for AND worked on changing...(so she can feel assured it will not happen again, which is a legit desire of hers)

"W, I know we've discussed this before & I've said I"m sorry about that. But I am happy about the changes I've made and now I'm just working on creating a better present and future. How are YOU doing these days?"

she has been texting me all day telling me about her work, the stress she is under and I have replied with the validation tips from this site.


Good for you. Some will advise differently about what approach to take when an OM is around, but read the Div Busting/Div Remedy books and find what is authentic for YOU to do with this.

My DB coach said to "Listen like a lover" (validate/support, show interest) and I found that it helped A LOT.

Granted, if the topics had been inappropriate, like h complaining about OW, I would not have done that.

But when h shared about work or interpersonal family issues, I definitely wanted to bond with him. And I did and it did help. He felt more relaxed around me and in time, we built on that.



I will keep adding as we go as that seems to be the way things work here .. thanks for the site and the ear.


Keep up the good work.

I am going to post a letter next, and you see IF any of it resonate with you.

It may not, but reflect on it, okay? It's just to help you see what role you played in this, if any.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Here is that letter I referred to, and it's from a WAW to a h who posted here. They were not married to each other, but the letter's author relates to the wife of the man posting here, and HE had made a lot of changes within,so.....make sense?

Okay...

FROM A WAW TO A LBS HUSBAND WHO HAS CHANGED AND WONDERS WHY HIS WAW HAS NOT COME HOME YET, AND HOW SHE CAN BE AT ALL INTERESTED IN OM….

"When I read your interactions with your wife, I could so easily identify with your wife's feelings/words/sentiments. I have been in her position in my M. I was the ignored, the devalued, the one who was treated as less than.

One of the things that I have tried my hardest not to do, is not to engage with another man. Not just because of my marriage vows, but because I knew that when I truly engaged in any type of R with another man, it would make it that much harder to ever reconcile with my H.

Because being treated differently (better) than the way he treated me would lessen him so much in my eyes. So, I can see where your W is coming from.

When you've been mistreated to the point where you actually let go of your R enough to let another person into your heart or bed or whatever, it takes a boatload of work to get back on a page where you're recommitted to being with your S - and those uncertainties that she's expressed to you, I don't know if you truly, truly fathom how deep they run.

Six months of getting back on a page where you treat her the way that any wife should be treated does not even scratch the surface of the years, the intrinsic devaluing that occurs when you're systematically mistreated for such a stretch of time.

And I promise you that while you have recommitted and worked for 6 months, your W has simply been trying to get to a point where she can even buy into the changes, where she can even think that you might have changed and not scoff at the thought.

Because when you build up hope again and again and again in your H and he crushes it again and again and again, you develop a thick skin, a protective doubt, a conditioned response to even the slightest, grainiest seed of hope. You are taught that when you hope, you will be disappointed. When you try, you will fail. You are taught that you will never be what he wants and it is hard to shake what you have come to believe is reality.

And for the changes that you've made to have come only when she walked away and OM became competition, I can definitely see how she can doubly doubt that you truly want to be in a M with her, and not just to WIN.


Even you today say that you are not sure that you don't just want to "win".

Step 1 - figure that sh!t out ASAP. Because if you actually do manage to convince her that you really do want her and really have recommitted to her and you actually just want to win, you'll put her through hell."
_________________________


Just give it some thought. And keep posting here!!


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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