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HopeTex Offline OP
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Thanks 25' you have given me a lot to think about.


Me:42 W:41
M:12 T:3
D7, D7, S5
Sep#1 Winter 2012 for 4 months
W divorce bomb 6/9/14
Started "in-house separation" 7/2014
W files for D 8/28/14
I move out 9/27/14
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,077
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Originally Posted By: HopeTex
Thanks 25' you have given me a lot to think about.


She always does. smile


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
D: 7
Bomb: 6/30/14
Separation: 8/11/14

Be strong enough to let go and wise enough to wait for what you deserve.
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Quote:
Part of me is telling myself What are you doing?! Don't rock the boat and make her mad, you will drive her away, and make her file for D!"

But the other part of me, that is growing stronger every day, is telling myself: Good for you. Sleep where you want to sleep. This is your house. You are a man who works hard and provides for his family. Sleep in the bed for crissakes.


HopeTex, I don't know what the vets will say on this one because I'm getting more confused about the subtleties of DBing without turning into a doormat (thanks to 25 for those clarifications) but your declarations of independence made me cheer.

You have every right to sleep in your bed. She is the one who has broken her vows. You were faithful, she was not. She has no right to push you out. I'm so glad you stayed.

You were not punishing her, she was welcome to sleep in the bed, too, but she chose not to. I don't know why I feel so glad for this little victory, but I do, probably because I wish I had some little victories in my life right now, too.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Good for you. Like I said earlier, there is no way to avoid conflict.

I think this thought "Don't rock the boat and make her mad, you will drive her away, and make her file for D!" is very natural. But, it is not accurate. It is important to set legitimate boundaries. The truth is that these boundaries reduce conflict and if consistent will improve the relationship.

The biggest issue I see is that this was an emotional response to the conflict with your children, rather than a deliberate boundary that you rationally set. It also blindsided your wife.

It would have been better if you could have sat down with her calmly before she went to Denver and explained that it is unreasonable to ask you to sleep in a different room. That when she returns, you are going to start sleeping in the master bedroom. That, she needs to decide what her sleeping arrangements are going to be when she gets home.

The key to setting boundaries is making sure that they are reasonable, that you are consistent, and that they are done solely to support your personal needs.

There is a tendency to use conflict like this to control and manipulate your spouse. That will just create more conflict and drive her away.


M43, W37
D5, D11, D13
DB 12/11/2012
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Oh, and don't fall for the "I am taking the high road, and am the victim" act that your wife portrayed by calmly getting the pillow.

The choice to end the relationship and move out of the family bed was hers. She could have made different choices, but this is the one she made. You should not feel any guilt for allowing her to make this choice.

She doesn't have the right to tell you were you have to sleep. You get to decide where you sleep, she gets to decide where she sleeps. It is that simple.


M43, W37
D5, D11, D13
DB 12/11/2012
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HopeTex Offline OP
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Just had a very interesting conversation with the W.  It followed a pretty tough nite, for me, tossing and turning and questioning.  

She came into the master to get ready for the day and I asked if she had some time to chat.  I told her that I was sorry that she was hurting, and that I didn't want a D but it was pretty clear that she did.  I said that I did not want her unhappy and so if she really wanted a D I was willing to discuss that with her and to help her move toward that.  I said I might not agree to everything she wants, but that does not mean that I will be stubborn and try to stop the D.  For example, I am not going to just move out of the house right now without some type of agreement in place, but that does not mean that I am not willing to discuss a million other things on the table.

She focused on the moving out issue, and insisted that I was not being honest with why I had that position, she said I must have gotten that from some conversation with somebody since I changed my mind so abruptly a couple months ago.  I repeated that one reason is that I am committed to the M so I am not going to leave, but then I did also explain to her that many people did talk to me about the legal downfalls of a H moving out, and that is also part of my rationale.  I said I wasn't going to move out without some type of legal agreement in place related to financials, custody, etc.  

I suggested that the next logical step was for her to find a D counselor, D mediator, or D lawyer to help her gather all the needed financial info and begin to put together a proposal.  I mentioned I had a Divorce for Dummies book with lots of good guides and forms for thinking all of that through.  I said that if she did all of that work on the front end and we could come up with a basic agreement, we could save $ on lawyers.  

At the risk of mind reading, as we talked she seemed to soften and get a little sad.

I told her that I wasn't going to stage a big fight for me to stay in the house, I explained that I just didn't know all of our finances well enough to know what was going to be possible, and I wasn't sure whether either of ous could afford to keep the house.  She said she thought that she could afford to stay in the house, she vaguely mentioned that she thought that if she got a job she could afford the house, and also mentioned something about letting me have our savings in exchange for her keeping he the house.  As I have mentioned before, I am skeptical that she can afford to stay in the house without a huge ongoing subsidy from me.  But I didn't question her about the details of what she is envisioning financially in a D settlement, I figure those type of details and assumptions will be tested as we move forward in looking at the numbers and discussing proposals.

When I mentioned that I was still committed to the M, she somewhat criticized that as just a story I was telling myself and others, that I wasn't facing up to reality, that I was miserable too and that I want out too. It was clear she doesn't like being seen as the one ending the M.  She said "You are miserable too."  I calmly said that yes, I have been unhappy, but that I still think there is a chance to work things out, but that I can understand if she doesn't think so.  I told her that I had done a lot of soul-searching in the past several weeks, and that I can see even more clearly how I have contributed to some of the problems.  She seemed somewhat interested in that but did not inquire.

She said she had heard from our mutual family and friends that I was telling people that I was committed to M and that she was the one who wanted out.  She expressed that that was somehow a fantasy story, and that her real fear was that I would tell our kids that.  I told her that it was not a story, it was very true that I did not want out of the M even if I have indeed been unhappy too.  But I assured her that I know full well that that is not what you tell young kids, that you tell kids that it is a mutual decision.  She seemed relieved.

I validated her by telling her how even though I personally don't think D is the right answer, I have done a lot of thinking recently and can understand how she has come to that conclusion after so much time in pain.  I told her that I knew that she was doing what she thought was best, even if I didn't agree with her conclusions.  I told her I wanted her to be happy and that I knew she was doing what she thought was needed to achieve that.  At that point she got very sad and said "I want you to be happy too.  I just want everyone to be happy."

Then the kids woke up so the conversation ended there.

So how we left I suppose it is that I will get her the Divorce for Dummies Book and she will start compiling the financial info.  I think she will probably work on that for a while and have discussions with me before consulting with a L.  I am going to be cooperative but also will let her do the work.

This is very fresh so I am not entirely sure if I am doing the right thing here.  But it does feel right.  It feels good to have things out on the table, to not be totally in the dark worrying about what she is going to do next legally.  And it did seem to open her up and get her talking and sharing.  I think she feels more seen and accepted.  And now she can start delving into the financial realities of D, which might give her pause.  

I am not real optimistic that she will change her mind prior to D, but I think that me being detached, cooperative, validating and "acting as if" probably provides the best chance, and it will also increase the chances for a decent working relationship post-D. 

I am feeling pretty good right now, although I imagine a wave of sadness and/or fear about moving forward to this next phase will hit me sometime soon.


Me:42 W:41
M:12 T:3
D7, D7, S5
Sep#1 Winter 2012 for 4 months
W divorce bomb 6/9/14
Started "in-house separation" 7/2014
W files for D 8/28/14
I move out 9/27/14
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 95
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HopeTex Offline OP
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Had a good chat with my DB coach Laurie just now. She was supportive of me dropping the rope, and the way I did it.

Laurie liked the empathy I showed in validating W, Laurie thinks this serves to release pressure and allow W to relax and open up to me, instead of feeling that I am always angry and judgmental about what she is doing. Laurie suggested I should look for signs of this, and also look for ways to validate W again. Not for me to initiate R conversations where I validate what she is doing in our R, but just me looking for ways to validate/affirm W if I see her doing some good with kids, for example. When W sees me validate her on something "small" like that, it gives her a clue that I am no longer spending all my time and energy being hurt and angry at her. I can accept and care about W even if I disagree with what she is doing to our M. It shows that I have moved to a new, detached, GAL phase. I may still strongly disagree with her current desire to end M, but I have evolved into acceptance and detachment. Shows that I can still care for H even when she is making decisions that hurt me. Laurie says that his type of mindset is Healing, Hope-Giving and Attractive to a W. Much more so than when I just am Angry and Judgmental.

Laurie says that this is NOT giving up on the M. It is just Trying in a New Way, for a new season and phase of our R. Hopefully now that I have dropped the rope:

I will feel better and stronger
I will be more attuned to W
I will no longer be so much of an anger target for W
I will be more attractive to W.

Even if she decides in the end to D, she will be divorcing a person she is more attracted to and feels much better about.

Laurie says to keep an eye on how fast W moves forward with her D work. It could be that now I have dropped the rope, it removes the battle W was fighting with me. Now that I have given a green light, W has to face and ponder the reality of actually going thru with it. Just a new world for her to grapple with. Her actual behavior will tell much more truth than any words she has said.

Laurie suggests that I give W the D workbook but then let W do the work, I just sit back and provide input if W requests. My most realistic optimistic goal is for W to dawdle and delay and have second thoughts, so my strategy is to do everything to make that possible. In other words, I will not nag her about Where are We on this D Stuff? But if she initiates D conversations then I need to participate and be cooperative.

Gotta run and GAL! Movie premiere with friends!

Love you guys.


Me:42 W:41
M:12 T:3
D7, D7, S5
Sep#1 Winter 2012 for 4 months
W divorce bomb 6/9/14
Started "in-house separation" 7/2014
W files for D 8/28/14
I move out 9/27/14
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,077
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Very profound stuff, HT!

Laurie is my coach too and I love her to pieces.

I guess I don't fully understand what "dropping the rope" actually means. I thought it meant that you were in favor of a D at that point, that you were no longer "pulling for reconciliation". Is that wrong?


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
D: 7
Bomb: 6/30/14
Separation: 8/11/14

Be strong enough to let go and wise enough to wait for what you deserve.
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 216
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Thanks for sharing your coaching notes; I just copied them for my own reference.

I am spending so much money on legal/financial fees right now, I'm wondering if adding coaching fees will matter. I'm lost at sea right now, wishing I did have a coach.

I'm also wondering how it will affect H to see Divorce Busting coaching on my list of expenses now that we are in D proceedings. I wonder if him seeing those expenses would appear that I am pursuing.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Posts: 412
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HopeTex, your sitch and mine have a lot of parallels. Here's a little hope for you - my wife rushed to file, etc., quickly. Once I began "Acting as if" the divorce was a decision she had made and I had to cope with as an adult, things HAVE softened. If we ever reconcile this marriage, it is probably 50/50 before/after the actual divorce. Once I realized that, GAL'g, etc., have become much easier. I did, like you, refuse to help her with paperwork or filing, or any of that crap. She can dismantle the marriage. I won't be a part of that.

When she softens, enjoy those moments. Create an environment that her memory can't deny as "good." Don't fear the inevitable pulling away and negative backlash. Those are signs that the good times WERE REAL! My wife has said that part of the reason she is doing this is because I have been miserable, too. Negative emotional cycling, little sex life, and no passion, no love. She's right about those things and I can validate. However, it isn't hard for me to say I have done a lot of reflection and soul-searching, and when she is willing, I can tell her all about how I see those things now.

She is responsible for herself, and controls the divorce process. But this is all she controls.

I refuse to give up until/unless she remarries or 3 years pass. (I graduated West Point. I can take the pain, By God!)

I won't tell anyone about this until absolutely necessary (thus making it easier for her to change her mind.)

I remain committed to becoming a better man and a better father. Therefore, as day follows night, I will become a better husband.

Hang in there!


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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