Wife dropped the bomb; doing in house separation

[HopeTex]

I like the way you think Sandi. There is some chance my moving back into the master will set the W off and she will threaten moving forward with D, but actually I don't really care if it does.

Nettles, I will ask the counselor his opinion, but in the end the while point is that I need to make the decision for myself, instead of thinking I can't make a decision without a counselors stamp of approval. I actually think the counselor will be supportive of me going my own way for a while.

[HopeTex]

Feeling pretty crappy tonite. We are hosting my father in laws 70th bday at our house tonite. I had a really good day with the kids, took them to a friends pool party, had a great time. Came back for the big party and did well for a while. Then just felt like an outsider, just didn't have it in me to hang out and laugh and drink with everyone. Said I was tired and said good night and headed to bed. Now just sitting up, listening to everyone having fun and carrying on downstairs. Feeling hopeless, rejected, lonely. Don't feel like I belong here. Wife doesn't want me. Feeling like I want to call it quits and move on to something new that isn't so painful. I felt so good and strong and detached earlier today. Not so much right now. Ouch.

[Old Dog]

Hey HopeTex, I had a terrible day yesterday. My mind just wouldn't let go of negative thoughts and I was welling up every half hour.

But tomorrow is another day. I expected people to say hang on in there on my thread and they did, and I will, and so can you. I think this stuff is cyclical and you will feel better about it soon enough.

[HopeTex]

Thanks Old Dog. Feeling better today. Just glad that even though I had some really bad thoughts last nite, I was able to control my behavior. I didn't do anything stupid to ruin the DB progress I have made. I felt the wave of bad feel he and politely and nonchalantly removed myself from the situation.

I think W would prefer that I like hanging out more with her parents and family members. I am struggling with that, they are all nice people but in my humble opinion we spend too much time with them, and for me it just gets very old and repetitive. They are very nice but not particularly interesting, so I get really bored and stir crazy seeng them so much and having the same mundane conversations over and over. I am trying to manage this better. Instead of getting restless and sulky about it, which my wife picks up on, I have just started limiting my time with them a bit, by finding other things to do when I am not in the mood to hang out with them. For example, if I am not up to going over to their house for Sunday dinner (after we have already seen them at kids sports Saturday morning and church Sunday morning and lunch after church...) I will instead take one if our kids on a "daddy date." W doesn't seem to mind this too much. Wish I could magically do a 180 and love spending every spare moment with them, but don't think that is possible. So instead I just set this new boundary and do what makes me happy here.

I think I have a hard time making these type of decisions about what I want and what makes me happy. I always over analyze it and basically do whatever I think I am "supposed" to do, and what will make W happy, even if it ends up making me grumpy and unhappy, which isn't attractive to W in the end.

[RockJC]

"What will make W happy"

You are exactly right, you struggle with these decisions because you are obsessed with healing your relationship, and everything else in your life is a lower priority. I have been there, so I completely understand.

Here is the truth - NOTHING you do will make your wife happy. She has to figure out the roots of her unhappiness and fix them herself. Right now, she blames you. If only she were free, she could solve this problem.

The first thing you need to do is give her this freedom.

Personally, I was not able to do this while living in the same house. It was a nightmare I would not wish on anyone. It took physical separation and eventually a divorce for me to be able to do this. Regardless, this is what needs to happen.

For now, I think you should live as if you were divorced and there was no possible future with your wife. Your decisions should be %100 about what moves you forward into a healthy single person the quickest.

[25yearsmlc]

At the risk of mind/crystal ball reading, I feel like where we are is that my W is just using the time in in-house separation as a time for her to get her ducks in a row to file for D. Line up a job, look for a house etc. she said "let's do this until the kids go back to school and then reappraise" but i don't think her heart is really open to reappraisal in that short a time frame. I am expecting that at the end of the summer she says she is ready to move forward with D.


You may be correct. But then HT, so what?

I mean, none of those^^^ things are "destructive" to the m, per se. And most of it actually would help you, in the event of a divorce. Last but not least, what choice do you have?

You want to act sadder? You want to "stop" her from doing any of this (Which you cannot do effectively anyhow)?

A LOT of this will depend on your attitude about it. And about your future. is it an upbeat future with positive possibilities, or more of the same? YOU Decide.

And btw, I have 2 family members who divorced...and later, remarried their exes. So Yes, it happens.


On the other hand, I know that the D process can take a long time, especially when she is getting on her feet financially, and I am not Daddy Warbucks. So there is time there for things to change.

I am working on changes. Although most of the time I feel like I am just working on staying alive, I feel like I am walking around with my gut split open and dragging along the floor. I feel wounded and in shock, so it is a real challenge to, at the same time, focus on GAL and making 180s, etc. but oh well no time like the present.

Most of us recall this ^^ ordeal rather too vividly. But the question "what healthy choice do I really have?" Helped me stay on track, often.

I will keep making changes and getting a life. And will be prepared if in a few weeks she says she is ready to move forward with D.

If you are prepared in a few weeks, I'd be amazed but impressed. I guess you have had SOME time...but just keep your focus oN YOUR LIFE and your kids. Not on her or HER next move, HER next mood or act or plan, etc.


She is likely confused herself. And even if she weren't. what she feels today may not be what she feels next week or month, ESPECIALLY if she sees that your changes are lasting. And let's face it, if your changes last a few months this time, that will be new data for her to take in, won't it?

Now, back to YOU...

From what I gather, the proper detached response to that will be " I don't want to get divorced, but if you feel that is what you have to do then I guess that is what you need to do." ???

Pretty darn close.

"It's not what I want, but I won't stop you." That also means you don't have to help her either.

Again I say, now, back to YOU....what NEW GAL are you up to these days? I really do harp on GAL a lot. But only for one reason...

it freaking works. And without GAL - I don't know how one can detach. So what are your GAL and some 180s? Can you name 2 of each? 3?

Later I'll post to you something about GAL and detachment.

And As long as you are reading a ton of books anyhow, try "Co-dependent No More" b/c I have heard a lot of folks are helped by that.

Hang in there. IT's not over , and the more she sees you lovingly interacting with your children, the better. It's great for the kids too, plus, No woman is unmoved by that. Frankly it's a turn on. And the kids could use it, right?

Finally, your growth sounds pretty in depth and I think you have one of the highest chances of long term "personal" success around. That means personal success as in YOU will end up a better, happier man down the road. I don't know if that means your m will be saved but it's rare for a man to look within as bravely and honestly as you have

That's a great thing and it will ultimately be a gift to yourself. You'll be loved again and you will love again. And you will laugh and be happy, etc.

Takes time and growth on HER end, and you don't have control over that. So focus on YOU, & creating a more fulfilling life for yourself and your kids.
Let go of the past, and try hard to go "from this day forward" (like the vows say).


((( )))

[25yearsmlc]

Two questions for the vets:

As for sleeping arrangements, for the past several weeks we have been trading weeks in the master bedroom. Would there be any point in me just saying "I am moving back into the master full time, you are free to sleep where you want?" I would much rather sleep in my own bed full time, obviously. Just not sure is would be a good idea or not.

I am considering stopping going to my counselor, at least for a while. He is a good counselor, I think. He is the MC we have been seeing jointly for about a year, although W gradually tapered off until he has basically become my counselor. I think the reason I want to stop at least for a while is that I just feel like I am in a rut there.

I have been in psychotherapy/marriage counseling for several years now, and it has been a great journey, but I think it has also become a bit of a crutch. Like I can't handle life or decisions on my own without a counselor to talk to. I think it has kept me in a mindset where I feel like I am broken and incapable in life and relationships.

I think I might needs some time away from therapy to just experience doing life and making decisions on my own for a while. It might also be a little bit of a 180 for my wife to see. With good reason, she has viewed me as a bit addicted to self-help books, fixing the relationship, fixing her, etc. I think it would definitely be a change for me to stop going to counseling, at least for a while. I would def continue my personal journey, reading, posting here, talking with friends, etc., just not with a regular counselor. Thoughts?

I so relate to this^^^ about therapy and "addiction to fixin' "...

Evem when it's with a good counselor, (never mind the mediocre ones) therapy can feel a bit self indulgent.

Have you considered a long weekend retreat or a personal growth workshop sometime? Maybe not this month, but soon? Here's why I applaud SOME of them.

Even in useful but weekly therapy, I could make a breakthrough - but then have to leave & go get the kids or go back to work.

So The next week, I'd have to start all over again, so the progress was at best very "fragmented".

But a good intense workshop gave me continuity to see a problem or issue from the past - to now - and on hru to the solution - so that at the end of the weekend, I had an action plan and some decisions had been MADE.
This workshop is called "Essential Experience" (aka "EE") and it's in Philadelphia.

Every few years, I have gone back to do "team" and help other participants, and it's like a free refresher course. (Make sure you research the correct one, b/c there are other things with similar names but very different emphasis).

EE is INTENSE and exhausting and hard, and you know what else is?

Giving birth. I mean, it felt like a 3 day Labor, but afterwards, OMG I was elated.
It was life changing for me and later on, for my h as well. I felt better about myself than ever before. To an extent, that feeling has never left me.

FWIW, I never expected my h to go. But when he picked me up at the airport from doing EE, he told me he saw a change in me right away. He said that it touched him.

A few months later, to my surprise, he went to EE too, and later told me it was the "Best gift anyone had ever given [him]". A few years later we went back together and did "team," and wow that was a truly deep bonding experience.

EE is different from the other workshops b/c It's a lot deeper and it's "Experiential", which means instead of a lecture format, in which someone tells us information and we try to process/digest it, there are exercises designed to help us experience & discover things about ourselves.

That way, people who usually "edit" our answers or rehearse how we sound (which I have done) ARE confronted with truly unexpected insights.

I really discovered some new things about myself that I did not know or admit to, before. That's powerful.

For me it was like 2-3 years of therapy in one LONG hard weekend. My h said the same (and so did the other DBers).

By far, EE is the best, deepest and most profound. It also consists of a community of participants and graduates who stay in touch and are a part of your life if you want. Other DBers have gone, if you want to ask around. Each said they found it life changing.

It was easily the safest and most supportive emotional environment I've ever been in. There is no "guru" there, and although I personally found it very spiritual, there is no religious dogma shoved at anyone.

I think someone with baggage, insights and a brave heart gets the most out of it, and you fit that bill.

You are willing to dig deep, and you know the real journey in life is an inward one.


EE can speed you along your journey so you can get where you want to go, sooner.

Okay now I don't want to sound like I'm pushing you onto something (or selling it!) I just think it gave my life clarity and intention and did that for my h, who is NOT a workshop type of guy.

So just check out the Essential Experience website, and see what you think.

I have no idea where you live or how far it's from Philly, but I have flown in from as far away as Alaska (& Texas) to do "team" - when friends of mine did the workshop. Totally worth it...

Again HT, hang in there. I have a feeling that your life is about to get a whole lot better, right around the corner.

[HopeTex]

Thank you RockJC. Good thoughts.

[HopeTex]

You guys are all great and I appreciate your insight and support.

25years:
I am reading Codependent No More. Ouch, see a lot of myself in that. That is why detachment has been so painful for me. It really amazes me as I realize how emotionally fused I am to the W. For the past couple years I really decided I could not possibly be happy if she was not happy with me. At least I have woken up to that fact; now is just the slow steady deatchment from her and rebuilding of my own identity, self-validation, etc.

Also listening to some Mindfulness podcasts, really like the focus on the present moment and finding inner peace.

GALs:
About to pull the trigger on some scuba lessons. Hope to follow that up with a solo trip somewhere to actually dive.
Wife schedule a vacation on her own with the kids to visit relatives in Denver next week. I scheduled a trip for me and the kids to a fun waterpark resort once they get back.
Going out with friends more.
Always wanted to learn to dance (two-step), will get lessons soon.

180's:
It feels like it is taking all of my energy and willpower just to detach. And I am doing pretty well at that.
Also trying to be a positive and upbeat person, especially around W and kids. I have a lifelong endency to get sullen, moody, negative, obsessed, etc.

I am TOTALLY with you on experiential weekends, trainings, etc. I have done Wild at Heart and also a bunch of stuff with a group out of California called Reinvent Ministries. http://reinventministries.org/ It has really changed my life over the past few years. I will look for another one to attend soon.

[HopeTex]

Random thoughts/Journaling:

I am slowly gaining more peace and detachment. There are still waves of pain and fear and codependency, but they are shorter and less-consuming.

I had a good conversation with my counselor today, and discussed my thoughts about needing a break. He was totally open and supportive of whatever I need to do. It led to a good general conversation about where I am and where I want to go. I think I will stick with this counselor for now, and just take a more active role in guiding my own life and guiding my counseling: not that I won't let the counselor do his job, but I need to decide what I want to improve in myself, not just show up for counseling to wallow in emotion or sit back and let him drive the train.

Not going to bring up a "sleeping arrangements discussion" with the W right now. I think i wanted to do that just as a way to poke at her and get some type of read on the R, her plans, etc. It would be thinly-disguised pursuing. I am fine for now with trading weeks in the master bedroom and will STFU.

I really have no clue where her mind is right now, and altho I don't like it I am much better at accepting that than I used to be.

So for right now I am just trying to be at peace with where the R is, live day-by-day, work on my own personal happiness, etc.

This forum is helping me stay sane, thanks guys.

She shows some positive signs, but nothing huge:
Smiling at me,
initiating non-R conversations about kids, etc
asking how my day was
calling me "babe" once in a while (accidental slip-up? who knows?!)
Not filing for D!

I notice them, but don't obsess on them.

She hasn't shown any particularly negative signs recently, but she is not a very expressive person anyway. I guess the negative signs are just that she is detached and not pursuing me and not wanting to reconcile, but that is very much to be expected right now.