Headed home today after another business trip, this one has been 2 nights. Haven't communicated with her at all on this trip. All her relatives are in town for her dad's bday, so that will be an interesting situation to parachute into.
I imagine I need to text her on the drive home, to figure out the sleeping arrangements. Something to the effect of
"Hi hope you are having a good day. Will be home tonite. What did you decide on sleeping arrangements? Let me know if I need to get a hotel room. I don't mind."
Me:42 W:41 M:12 T:3 D7, D7, S5 Sep#1 Winter 2012 for 4 months W divorce bomb 6/9/14 Started "in-house separation" 7/2014 W files for D 8/28/14 I move out 9/27/14
I have totally different situation, so no advice...
BUT - I wouldn't go too crazy worrying about detaching too much. My .02 would be detach but be sure that you're being pleasant. Be the kind of man she would want to be with. Look nice, smell nice, be nice, but don't pursue.
Definitely tough when she's pushing for different sleeping arrangements, but I think holding your ground is smart (and shows that you're NOT being a doormat).
Careful with the counselor pushing for divorce...I might even ask the counselor why they keep pushing that agenda. Just a thought.
First off, your situation is not hopeless. Remember to beleive nothing that you hear from WAW and only half of what you see. That was my mantra for a long time. This can change, and they often do at the drop of a dime, when you least expect it. That's what happened to me.
You remind me of me. I am a codependant with childhood abandonment issues as well. Those issues have created many issues in my relationships.
Have you read Codependant No More by Melanie Beatty? I highly suggest you do.
I would also caution you on the Christian based counseling. I too am a Christian, however the advice I have seen given to copendants from such counselors can border on codependancy itself.
My best advice is to start thinking about the guy you were when you first met WAW. Not the closed off, emotinally absent guy. I'm talking about the fun, adventorous, spontaneous guy. Scuba diving lessons is a great idea.
What attracted your WAW to you in the first place? What is different about you now? Being codependant, you probably lost yourself in this relationship and forgot who you really are.
Recognize the things that DO NOT work: pursuing, crying, begging. Have you noticed that those things have NEVER worked and only made things worse? DO NOT allow yourself to fall back into those behaviours, EVER. DO NOT kiss her ass, you are a man full of confidence and charisma. Fake it if you have to.
Recognize the things that DO work: detachment (she already seems to have responded to this), smiling and happy with the kids, GAL. Keep doing more of these things. The results will not come quickly. Your goal is to slowly allow WAW to feel comfortable with you. The more positive interactions you have with her, without falling into negative behaviours, the more likely she will slowly start to increase interaction with you.
I know how devestated you feel. I remember those feelings very vividly. Your sitch is far from over. But YOU are going to have to put in the work. Dont expect squat from her right now.
Consistency is going to be key here. Anytime you are about to do something you are not sure about, post it here first. Never shoot from the hip, because 99% of the time, you will be doing the wrong thing.
In my sitch, I took the vets advice each and every time. It was BRUTAL for me. My feelings were telling me I was going to lose her everytime I took their advice. My feelings were lying to me.
It's going to hurt like hell, but I can do it, you can.
As always I worry that I am detaching too much and missing opportunities to connect and pursue, but overall I still believe strongly that calm, kind GAL-ing detachment is what is called for, for a good while longer. Like months probably.
If you don't mind, could you explain how you see detaching?
In the meantime, let me say this from the viewpoint of a WAW. Do not look for opportunities to pursue her! Pursuing a WAW does harm to the M.....so remember that every time you have the urge.
In reading your thread, it seems you are the one in the MR that needs the emotional connection. It sounds as if you could be co-dependent. I can see why she would feel you were smothering her. You look for reasons to connect and pursue!
You are completely over-thinking the sleeping arrangements. Why are you so hung up over the master bedroom and needing your privacy? And why would leave your own home to get a hotel room? (BTW, I read what you wrote.)
You've talked about your changes. Can you list them? What goals are you working on at this time? What are you doing to GAL?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I think this is simple. You live in the house, and you sleep in your room. She is welcome to sleep wherever she wants.
One of the things that I struggled with is accepting the fact that this is her journey. You need to let her take it, without letting her journey dictate how you lead your life.
Stay in your home and in your bed. Yes, this will create conflict, but don't be naive and think that conflict will not happen. You cannot avoid it.
Thanks guys, this is all really good feedback, and I appreciate it greatly.
Thornton, I ordered Codependent No More and will read it, thanks.
I am committed to DB'ing, regardless of how long it takes or the negative signals she sends, or the negative steps she takes, even if her next step is to move forward with filing for D. I am "lucky" in the sense that I have spent almost 2 years pursuing and trying to control, and so I am now very very well educated (finally) that it simply does not work. DB'ing mg not work either, in the sense that it might not save my M. But I know that it is the only strategy that might work, and it will also keep me sane and help me grow into a happier person regardless of what W does.
The silly "weekend sleeping arrangements" issue worked itself out, W ended up texting me that I could have the master while her family is in town. She even slept in the bed with me, but it wasn't much of an event as I went to bed earlier than her and slept in later. Wasn't a big deal in the end, but all in all I feel good about setting a boundary and sticking up for myself a bit. I think it was a small piece of detachment.
Sandi2, I am trying to look at and achieve detachment the way it is described by veteran DB'ers on this board, ie, it is having your own life and emotions but NOT being totally isolated and cold. This is definitely a struggle for me, in the past I have swung from being totally emotionally cut off from W in our early years of M, to then being totally codependent/fused. My sitch is painful, but it am also trying to see it as a great opportunity to finally find the healthy balance, where I am my own person but can also be in a relationship. (I really recommend the book Passionate Marriage, it is great in explaining "differentiation."). It is really interesting for me to watch myself in my interactions with my W. I still feel that urge to pursue and connect, but now I can finally control it. It turns out it is not an irresistible urge I have! I can be my own person, and be strong and happy (most of the time) even when my W is rejecting me and thinking about D. Who knew?!
My changes I am working on are: Detachment, not pursuing Positive mindset (reading Happiness Advantage), becoming a more calm and pleasant person instead of a moody/anxious/driven one More engaged with kids Dressing better Continued and improved physical fitness
GAL: More time with friends More engaged in work activities and work trips (This might not seem like a positive change for most H's, but I think it is for me. Over the past couple years I have been so enmeshed in W and e relationship I have somewhat coasted at work. Being a bit more focused on work is helping me detach) Looking into scuba lessons, dance lessons.
Me:42 W:41 M:12 T:3 D7, D7, S5 Sep#1 Winter 2012 for 4 months W divorce bomb 6/9/14 Started "in-house separation" 7/2014 W files for D 8/28/14 I move out 9/27/14
As for sleeping arrangements, for the past several weeks we have been trading weeks in the master bedroom. Would there be any point in me just saying "I am moving back into the master full time, you are free to sleep where you want?" I would much rather sleep in my own bed full time, obviously. Just not sure is would be a good idea or not.
I am considering stopping going to my counselor, at least for a while. He is a good counselor, I think. He is the MC we have been seeing jointly for about a year, although W gradually tapered off until he has basically become my counselor. I think the reason I want to stop at least for a while is that I just feel like I am in a rut there. I have been in psychotherapy/marriage counseling for several years now, and it has been a great journey, but I think it has also become a bit of a crutch. Like I can't handle life or decisions on my own without a counselor to talk to. I think it has kept me in a mindset where I feel like I am broken and incapable in life and relationships. I think I might needs some time away from therapy to just experience doing life and making decisions on my own for a while. It might also be a little bit of a 180 for my wife to see. With good reason, she has viewed me as a bit addicted to self-help books, fixing the relationship, fixing her, etc. I think it would definitely be a change for me to stop going to counseling, at least for a while. I would def continue my personal journey, reading, posting here, talking with friends, etc., just not with a regular counselor. Thoughts?
Me:42 W:41 M:12 T:3 D7, D7, S5 Sep#1 Winter 2012 for 4 months W divorce bomb 6/9/14 Started "in-house separation" 7/2014 W files for D 8/28/14 I move out 9/27/14
"As for sleeping arrangements, for the past several weeks we have been trading weeks in the master bedroom. Would there be any point in me just saying "I am moving back into the master full time, you are free to sleep where you want?" I would much rather sleep in my own bed full time, obviously. Just not sure is would be a good idea or not." : Do whatever makes you feel more like a man! Honesy, why are you back on the sleeping arrangements again? I thought you said you laid down a boundary about if. I didn't see it. I saw your W tell you.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I am considering stopping going to my counselor, at least for a while.
What does your counselor think you should do?
me: 45 W:45 M 20 years T 22 years S14, S13, S11, D9 BD 2/28/14 D papers served 3/3/14 I moved out 3/15/14 MC start 4/2/14 I moved in 6/2/14 D suit withdrawn 6/30/14
