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#2474255 07/30/14 09:45 PM
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Part 1 Part 2
Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6
Part 7 Part 8 Part 9 Part 10 Part 11
Part 12

Lucky number 13!

Things have improved a ton between my W and I. I'd say we are almost friends, although we're not talking on a daily basis we do talk each week about our kids.

My W seems to be very good "friends" with another man. Not sure what to make of it.

I will be having dinner with my W and our kids tomorrow night. I'm going to have to talk to her about the financial issues we're facing and tell her she will need to contribute a bit to our house. I've been paying for everything related to the house on my own since she left, I just can't manage it alone any longer. I hope it doesn't set us back in the progress we've made, it has to be done though.

I have the kids every other week and it's been that way since early May. It's gone very, very well and made a big difference to my kids. They still desperately want my W and I back together of course. I've just been telling them I will always love their Mom, that will never change and that maybe someday it could happen that we'd all be together again.

I'm still dealing with the loss of my Mom, as I'm sure I will be for a very long time. She was a huge help to me through some of my darkest days after my W left despite having batting cancer. She very much wanted to see my W and I back together.

I have been incredibly busy the last few months between being the best Dad I can possible be, trying to sell our acreage, managing our business and my work, being the executor for my Mom's estate as well as getting my band going again to name just a bit of what's going on.

It's been 10 months since my W left. Things have gotten so much better than where they were only a couple of months ago. I don't know if my W and I will ever be more than friends again, I'm not giving up hope just yet.

My W and I had a good talk last week when I noticed she sounded very down. Perhaps she's starting to see that the grass isn't so green on the other side? (yep, mind reading)


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Since my W is with another guy, in one way or another, how have all of you dealt with similar situations? Just wait it out? Be there for your other half when the infatuation phase wears off?

It seems that even with the progress my W and I have made I am still the bad guy so anyone else has to be better in her eyes.


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Any thoughts on my last post would be awesome! I'm meeting my W tonight so here's hoping our discussion on our financial issues goes well and I don't push her further into the arms of this other guy.


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I would recommend you stop thinking that you are pushing her "into the arms of another guy."

That's on her, not you.


Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
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Hey Drew, do you mean basically that I can't control what she thinks or does?

I feel I'm a very different guy than the one she knew and although it seems that she has recognized that to some extent it's not nearly enough to consider working on a new relationship. Even if being with me would mean she sees our kids every day she would rather lose half their time than consider a new relationship, that says a lot.


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Originally Posted By: Scorp7
Hey Drew, do you mean basically that I can't control what she thinks or does?

DB101.

Actually Life 101.

Originally Posted By: Scorp7
I feel I'm a very different guy than the one she knew and although it seems that she has recognized that to some extent it's not nearly enough to consider working on a new relationship. Even if being with me would mean she sees our kids every day she would rather lose half their time than consider a new relationship, that says a lot.

That's the way you feel.

You don't know how she feels.

And however she feels, that's the way she feels RIGHT NOW.

Patience.


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Thanks Drew! I haven't read the DB books lately, I likely should again, very soon! That and schedule another telephone coaching session, a lot has changed since my last one!


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It's kind of ironic that one of W's and my favorite songs is Patience by GnR. I used to sing it to her all the time. I guess I might want to think of that song a bit more often, hehe.


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Scorp,

Look past OM...no acknowledgment, no registering him...nuthin! Keep going with what you've been doing with W and the kids. Perhaps you might want to do a slight temp check with W and see how she thinks about your family's outings lately.

Go slow. You just can't stay silent allll the time. I tell people here that it is okay to open up a bit with temp checking and then reassess. Just keeping your mouth zipped forever isn't DBing at all.

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Thanks Wonka, that helps for sure! I'd been thinking the same thing, if I never approach my W about things (doing things as a family, maybe trying to work on things etc) then how will I know where she's at?

She is planning on taking our kids on a short holiday this weekend. I'd love to go but I don't think asking to do so would be a good idea. Maybe just doing something else together with the kids would be enough for now?


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Scorp,

I think it's great that W and the kids are going away on a short holiday for this is her time with them. Have you thought about going to the zoo all together at some point where there are petting stations and opportunities to do fun activities while there? Just giving you some ideas here.

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How can you know how far to take things with seeing where she's at? I wouldn't ask her to come back and we've at least been able to sit down together with the kids once a week for a meal.

Obviously somewhere in between but how to know?


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Ok..you got me right there! An analogy is in order here.

You have an abandoned baby squirrel in your hand. Now...you are responsible for its care. The first thing is gentleness, right? You can't handle it roughly from the get go. You start feeding the baby squirrel using ear drop dispenser. You don't feed it with a regular baby bottle. It won't work at all.

Same here with your interactions with W. Don't forget the ear drop dispenser when approaching her.

Hey, I am not eloquent tonight...but I think the point gets across to here...no?

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hehe, thanks Wonka! I'm going to be sitting down with her tomorrow night so I'll ask her if she would like to do something together with the kids in the not too distant future.

I agree that it's good she's having this time with our kids, it will be good for all of them.

I don't expect that she will be onboard with doing something together at this point but I won't know for sure if I don't ask.


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Sandi's rules say to never initiate a discussion about the relationship. Does that hold true forever? There are things I'd like to talk to her about, mainly about how we could start a new life together with our kids. Should I go there?


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Originally Posted By: Scorp7
Sandi's rules say to never initiate a discussion about the relationship. Does that hold true forever?

Of course not. How could you ever reconcile?

These "rules" state they are NOT rules but merely guidelines. These are things she threw together one day, when she found herself repeating the same mantras and advice to people. They are more like bullet points based on MWD's books, not "rules" by any stretch.


They do NOT apply to all situations (which she states in there, up front) and they evolve too. If you are a person who neglected your spouse and chidden so YOU could work at the job you love, then yet more neglect and more "Not pursuing" is NOT the best course for you, right? In that scenario, pursuing is probably THE PATH to her heart...

If you were a serial cheater, then letting your w know you are interested in OWs and being mysterious, is NOT the path YOU should follow...correct?

So you tailor the suggested GUIDELINES, to suit your situation and as it evolves, you also evolve as does your behavior.


Got it?

There are things I'd like to talk to her about, mainly about how we could start a new life together with our kids. Should I go there?


I'd have to read the whole thread but wanted to address your post herein. It's a very common and dangerous misperception about the "rules",

which are NOT RULES at all. Sandi will probably have to write them over again to get that across.


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Wow, believe it or not, I have now read your ENTIRE thread....

In YOUR Situation I would NOT bring up the R with your w. She is letting you know with her actions, that she "can" be around you. She is also "Seeing" another man and you don't know what that means.

I happen to think SOME women take their h's for granted until IF & WHEN they fear losing their h's for good.

In fact, I know SOME women do that and for SOME women, you being a bit mysterious about your whereabouts would probably help. I also know you pursued the HECK out of your w til she literally could not stand talking to you on the phone, at all, and would not allow you to speak to your children without "supervision" and she had you arrested---So that she could take the kids to live hours away from you, and only when forced, did she relent and "allow" you to have them more.

I also question the divorce and desire to avoid attorneys, which seems to come more from her than you. Meaning, for a woman who only makes a 1/10 of your salary, usually it's the one making MORE money who wants to avoid legal expenses....but I don't know her financial situation or what her parents are contributing...


I ASSUME (but I don't "know") that she saw/sees you as a bully, or she lied the whole time about you, but my gut says she probably did have that perception. She probably knowingly exaggerated but figured "the ends justify the means", etc.

IN SUM,

Pushing for more, now, seems like a great way to backslide.

No offense but if you look at MY time line below, I hope you'll understand why I see your belief that "10 months is so long", and your compulsion to push for more NOW, means your patience level is still juvenile. Since having more patience is a 180 for you, I suggest you work on that a whole lot more.

Besides, the biggest turn on for HER is probably the fact that you moved and spent so much energy on getting to see the kids. IF you start in now pushing for any type of recon, it'll look like it was all tactical to get her back.

And to tell you the truth, that thought has crossed my mind a few times already. I mean, you barely have had good access with your kids for what, 2 months, and NOW you think you should move in for more??

Is it because there might be competition? Or you just HAVE to act now? There is a strong streak of impulsiveness in your behavior, have you discussed that with your IC?

Originally Posted By: Scorp7
Sandi's rules say to never initiate a discussion about the relationship. Does that hold true forever? There are things I'd like to talk to her about, mainly about how we could start a new life together with our kids. Should I go there?



I have already touched on Sandi's "rules" but would simply say YOUR situation is a fragile one that has been extremely Unfriendly until quite recently.

IF I were you, I'd let all parties get used to the IDEA that you could be friends down the road...and in TIME, (at least -- AT LEAST --AT LEAST--- 90 days --but preferably a lot longer),

before I'd explore more or do any R talk with your w. Really.

There are no "secret" ways to guarantee that your w will come back to you. But we sure do know a lot of ways for you to push her away.

Rushing in for more, could show the impulsive side of you again, and a lack of restraint and impatience,

and worse, possibly an agenda about the kids (like it wasn't b/c you are a great dad that you fought for them, but b/c you wanted your wife back, that you moved there and are Pretending to care about the kids...)
and since what you are doing thus far, LATELY has been working, I'd stick to Life rule 101,
"do what works and do not do what does not work".

Every single time you asked your w for a "chance to talk", she said no or pulled away more. Every time you calmly and politely SEEMED TO DETACH, she noticed and some of those times, she came to you...

NO woman is untouched by the loving interaction of her children with their father. For many women, a man who is a "good father" is enough to stay married, just for that. And a man who is also a "Good provider" is a great catch to many women with kids.

No OM can compete with THAT. When my h and I were sep, I saw that he dated. I also dated but not that he knew so there was no "tit for tat". He was 3000 miles away for a long time and I was rusty at dating and lonely and curious about what was out there.

Dating OMs helped me in 2 ways. On one hand, it helped my ego to see that men were interested in me and that some of them were very good guys who'd make good companions.

Secondly, even those good guys also reminded me of why I had chosen my h in the first place b/c we were really pretty well suited for each other. My h has taken good care of himself and is in better shape than any man our age that I Know, and my h is smart and well read, and gets my sense of humor.

Those^^ traits made me miss h MORE, not less. And that's when I had good dates, the dates that were hilariously bad, made me miss him a lot too....

We reconciled after I came to believe the marriage had "only a 10% chance of success", and that h would be gone but that I'd be happy, either way.

That belief, that I'd be happy anyhow, sank in and eventually began to seep out of me and radiate from within. I started thinking h was losing more than me (but not in a competitive way; more like 'gee, h's r's with the kids will never be the same but mine is fine and I'm busy GAL and doing things I neglected doing for too long."

I was beginning to have FUN and, it showed.

I also have 2 family members who divorced, and a few years later, remarried their former spouses so yes it does happen.

I suggest you REALLY GAL b/c except for your musical interests, it sounds as if your activities are all things you did before...any NEW hobbies or NEW friends who are not in your typical comfort zone? Expanding your comfort zone might be the fastest way to grow, personally.

Also re your mom's death...my sincere condolences. I think the death of a parent is often under rated as a life ordeal. Don't be surprised if your grief is pushing you towards your wife faster than you might otherwise feel is safe.

Did your w or kids attend any funerals or memorials? Did your w reach out to your mom at all, and regardless of the answer, how do you feel about your w's role DURING the illness/passing? Also, I am a L and I know the probate work is taxing (not literally, but you know what i mean) and tedious and oddly stressful. Do you have siblings? God I hope so.

When your mom was facing death, Were you able to distance yourself from "needing" your w, or was she a "pillar of support" you were able to lean on, or were you able to carry on totally separately?

Be mindful that grief comes in many forms.

We can do or FEEL things, or think we do, that are actually related more to our pain and loneliness for our "biggest fan in the bleachers", than desire for the previous m.
Grief can mask itself as many other things...

IF you were to reconcile,

can you tell us 3 SPECIFIC things or behaviors you would do differently than before?


Finally, since you KNOW rushing this could easily ruin your chances for anything lasting or good to happen, can you tell us ONE advantage to going too fast?

B/C waiting another 90 days is not going to make her "bored" of you or think "Scorp must be done"....

NOR will she choose to marry some OM "Because" you went from not even speaking on the phone, to wanting to spend more time together "as a family", in 65 days of bi-weekly contact.

In the grand scheme of things, if you could detach for 2 minutes, you'd see that you are about to do something NOT smart.

And she has clued you in a few times already. Respect her wishes and her boundaries and don't force her to have to blurt out a rude comment b/c you won't take a hint.

What's wrong with letting HER REACH OUT first? What's wrong with letting HER take the temperature of the R?

I say nothing cools ardor and passion and TRUST, faster ----

than a person who keeps taking the temperature of an evolving, fragile relationship.
That's my .05


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Wow, thank you so much for taking the time to read my story 25years and for all your feedback. It truly is very much appreciated. I'll try to respond to all of your questions.

In fact, I know SOME women do that and for SOME women, you being a bit mysterious about your whereabouts would probably help.

This is something I have been doing during the week when I don't have the kids. I've met a few new people and been spending time with them. I think my W has picked up on that a bit.

I also know you pursued the HECK out of your w til she literally could not stand talking to you on the phone, at all, and would not allow you to speak to your children without "supervision" and she had you arrested---So that she could take the kids to live hours away from you, and only when forced, did she relent and "allow" you to have them more.


I did a LOT of pursuing during the first few months, it definitely did not help. I also let my guilt for my past mistakes put me in a position to almost lose my kids entirely. looking back it's hard to believe I acted as I did. Guilt can be a nasty thing, it's something I'm still working on letting go of.

I ASSUME (but I don't "know") that she saw/sees you as a bully, or she lied the whole time about you, but my gut says she probably did have that perception. She probably knowingly exaggerated but figured "the ends justify the means", etc.


I think she did see me as a bully. I always told her that I wanted her as my partner, an equal, my actions likely said otherwise. I was controlling and my insecurity meant I felt the need to dictate how our life went. She followed me into whatever I would lead us in to and it wasn't very good at times. We had far too much stress, too much pressure and I didn't give her the satisfaction of being happy with our life very often. She is a pleaser and she looked for me to be happy so she could be happy herself.

No offense but if you look at MY time line below, I hope you'll understand why I see your belief that "10 months is so long", and your compulsion to push for more NOW, means your patience level is still juvenile. Since having more patience is a 180 for you, I suggest you work on that a whole lot more.

Besides, the biggest turn on for HER is probably the fact that you moved and spent so much energy on getting to see the kids. IF you start in now pushing for any type of recon, it'll look like it was all tactical to get her back.


10 months does feel like a long time. It may be my insecurity that is causing me to feel that waiting any longer to act would mean we won't get back together. I have to realize that backing off and being patient will give my family the best chance of being back together.

It's interesting you mention that my actions with my kids could be viewed by my W as tactics to get her back. I love my kids more than anything in this world and I want to give them the best father they can have, regardless of my W. If you could view my actions as being some type of ploy to get my W back then it's very possible my W would see it that way as well. I guess the only thing I can do about that is be the best Dad I can possibly be, just as I have been, and over time she may see that I'm doing what I am for them, not for her.

Every single time you asked your w for a "chance to talk", she said no or pulled away more. Every time you calmly and politely SEEMED TO DETACH, she noticed and some of those times, she came to you... My W and I were to sit down together tonight for dinner but she's saying she doesn't have time as she's travelling with our kids on a short holiday she has planned with them and will be driving on unfamiliar roads. I think I believe her reasons for not wanting to sit down but she may also sense my desire to talk and reconnect more.

Did your w or kids attend any funerals or memorials? Did your w reach out to your mom at all, and regardless of the answer, how do you feel about your w's role DURING the illness/passing? Also, I am a L and I know the probate work is taxing (not literally, but you know what i mean) and tedious and oddly stressful. Do you have siblings? God I hope so

I asked my W to attend the funeral and also reached out to her for support. She refused to do either which hurt me although I can understand. She did give me a sympathy card and seemed to genuinely be concerned for me. I do have siblings, some have been supportive and others not at all. The estate is proving to be much more complicated than it should have been due to one sibling in particular which is unfortunate to say the least. Through my whole situation I'm learning just how strong I can be.

It seems that my W has noticed my changes. I'm in great shape, the best I've been in a very long time. I feel good, look good and am adjusting to my new life. The problem is that since she noticed these changes and started to open up a tiny bit I seem to need to rush in and want more. Bad idea, I agree.

Patience, patience, patience. Stick with what has worked, avoid what hasn't. Get over my insecurity and be confident that my W could actually WANT me again.

Thanks again 25yearsmlc!


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This is Not as long as it looks (I promise!) I'm just highlighting my replies to your comments... but to summarize, your comments make me more certain than before, that your wife is NOT ready for you to make a move.




Originally Posted By: Scorp7
Wow, thank you so much for taking the time to read my story 25years and for all your feedback. It truly is very much appreciated. I'll try to respond to all of your questions.

In fact, I know SOME women do that and for SOME women, you being a bit mysterious about your whereabouts would probably help.

This is something I have been doing during the week when I don't have the kids. I've met a few new people and been spending time with them. I think my W has picked up on that a bit.

I also know you pursued the HECK out of your w til she literally could not stand talking to you on the phone, at all, and would not allow you to speak to your children without "supervision" and she had you arrested---So that she could take the kids to live hours away from you, and only when forced, did she relent and "allow" you to have them more.


I did a LOT of pursuing during the first few months, it definitely did not help. I also let my guilt for my past mistakes put me in a position to almost lose my kids entirely. looking back it's hard to believe I acted as I did. Guilt can be a nasty thing, it's something I'm still working on letting go of.


I suspect you were a bully to her, and the guilt and accompanying realizations put you in a much weaker position. Make sure you work on AND keep on, the changes.

The more you know you are not the "old Scorp", the better, & the more you'll act from a position of confidence and strength (not arrogance, not impulsive selfishness, but a quiet strength and knowing confidence.



I ASSUME (but I don't "know") that she saw/sees you as a bully, or she lied the whole time about you, but my gut says she probably did have that perception. She probably knowingly exaggerated but figured "the ends justify the means", etc.


I think she did see me as a bully. I always told her that I wanted her as my partner, an equal, my actions likely said otherwise. I was controlling and my insecurity meant I felt the need to dictate how our life went. She followed me into whatever I would lead us in to and it wasn't very good at times.

So then, the trust in your "leadership" was understandably broken and took a big hit? That makes sense. It's sad, but I understand it. When the time comes, IF IF IF it does, you can own that specifically, b/c I think someday hearing it might help. NOT NOW or anytime soon, but maybe someday.


We had far too much stress, too much pressure and I didn't give her the satisfaction of being happy with our life very often. She is a pleaser and she looked for me to be happy so she could be happy herself.

so YOU were not happy, and that spread? OR you would not "give" or allow her to be happy if you were not? IS that b/c you feared if she felt comfortable she'd then spend more or misery loves company or what? I'm just curious.


No offense but if you look at MY time line below, I hope you'll understand why I see your belief that "10 months is so long", and your compulsion to push for more NOW, means your patience level is still juvenile. Since having more patience is a 180 for you, I suggest you work on that a whole lot more.

Besides, the biggest turn on for HER is probably the fact that you moved and spent so much energy on getting to see the kids. IF you start in now pushing for any type of recon, it'll look like it was all tactical to get her back.


10 months does feel like a long time. It may be my insecurity that is causing me to feel that waiting any longer to act would mean we won't get back together. I have to realize that backing off and being patient will give my family the best chance of being back together.

absolutely the best thing YOU can do now is learn to sit in the discomfort you have created and learn from it. I do not yet believe you are really truly ready to reconcile right now, based on how you speak & your rushing things that seem to me, to be obviously too soon.

You have learned a lot about what NOT to do in a marriage but I fear you do not have enough "to do" models. Meaning positive role models of men whom you admire or respect, who have healthy marriages and from whom you can learn how to cope with stress and grief and everyday problems that we all learn to face.

Taking life on life's terms. Not continually trying to maneuver or manipulate outcomes. That is something you still do.

You call it your "insecurity" and surely there is a lot of that at the root of your issues. The need/desire to control others is probably related to it. But regardless, it's unappealing and destructive. You MUST manage that trait and change it asap.


It's interesting you mention that my actions with my kids could be viewed by my W as tactics to get her back.


Only IF you start asking her for more, or moving in for more, or pressing for more, THEN I believe it would make nearly every woman in this scenario, think to herself "Aha! THAT is what he is really doing this all for!

It's not the kids after all! It's just his need to control ME and Not leave me alone like I keep telling him to do..."

Plus, her parents are probably worried just as much about the same thing.


I love my kids more than anything in this world and I want to give them the best father they can have, regardless of my W. If you could view my actions as being some type of ploy to get my W back then it's very possible my W would see it that way as well. I guess the only thing I can do about that is be the best Dad I can possibly be, just as I have been, and over time she may see that I'm doing what I am for them, not for her.

You do the math...

consistent changes + sufficient TIME = change she can believe in.


It really is the only way to "prove" it. I think your issue is clearly the TIME element. So work on it.

It's not "easy" ---- but it's not complicated. Not a lot of "thinking out" this is needed. Just stay the course and add a whole lot of TIME to it. Okay?


Every single time you asked your w for a "chance to talk", she said no or pulled away more. Every time you calmly and politely SEEMED TO DETACH, she noticed and some of those times, she came to you... My W and I were to sit down together tonight for dinner but she's saying she doesn't have time as she's travelling with our kids on a short holiday she has planned with them and will be driving on unfamiliar roads. I think I believe her reasons for not wanting to sit down but she may also sense my desire to talk and reconnect more.

Agreed. This highlights the need for her and you to spend more time RELAXED --and that only happens when YOU back off, and ask her for nothing more!

Drink the STFU Juice (that Wonka sent) and sit in the "No R Talk" chair and just rock back and forth in it...do NOT DO anything and do NOT bring up the R anytime soon.

Wow, how can I stress that more?? DO NOT PUSH FOR MORE!! cool



Did your w or kids attend any funerals or memorials? Did your w reach out to your mom at all, and regardless of the answer, how do you feel about your w's role DURING the illness/passing? Also, I am a L and I know the probate work is taxing (not literally, but you know what i mean) and tedious and oddly stressful. Do you have siblings? God I hope so

I asked my W to attend the funeral and also reached out to her for support.

She refused to do either
which hurt me although I can understand. She did give me a sympathy card and seemed to genuinely be concerned for me. I do have siblings, some have been supportive and others not at all. The estate is proving to be much more complicated than it should have been due to one sibling in particular which is unfortunate to say the least. Through my whole situation I'm learning just how strong I can be.


That last part (the difficult sibling) sure stinks. I do wish ALL parents would take the time to write out ONE PAGE of instructions that clears up any potential snafus (and shuts up the potential problem child)...but hang in there, it DOES pass.

I think your w made it clear she is NOT at all interested in more now.

That refusal of hers, was probably b/c you asked for too much (& you did, b/c we all worry about what our spouses want from us at times like this, when we feel more vulnerable or feel pity for the other).

You probably fit both criteria then, and she may have been wise to back away so you would keep your expectations low. (Remember that? You kind of forget it a lot).

Asking her for more support, at THIS time (when you are sad and reaching out and maybe acting like an emotionally drowning man) likely scared the heck out of her.

Do you see why? Do you see why going in for more, now, is such a bad idea? I mean, other than her choosing to be rude to you,

I think she's made it as clear as she can that she is ONLY interested in being in the same room as you and your children, for now, and MAYBE seeing how that goes for awhile. Not two weeks, but a few or several months...and build on that. Let her learn that she CAN TRUST that being around you is not an "Obligation to do more" for you...

To ME, the best case scenario is that she's really reluctant to reconcile b/c she detests the way the former marriage was, is terrified of falling back into old patterns in which her needs are suppressed, and you take over.

For you to want to go in for more now, after she refused to attend the funeral AND said "no thanks" to giving you more support, probably looks like you are NOT listening to her and you are NOT taking in some big clues. It MAY make it more likely in her eyes, that it was a sham and that your "real agenda" is simply to get her back...

She's being clear with you, if you ask me. She's NOT ready for more right now. Period.

Is that clearer to you now?



It seems that my W has noticed my changes. I'm in great shape, the best I've been in a very long time. I feel good, look good and am adjusting to my new life. The problem is that since she noticed these changes and started to open up a tiny bit I seem to need to rush in and want more. Bad idea, I agree.




Let her (and YOU) enjoy the new you without fearing it means she "has to do/give" more.

You are not in a position to worry about her "cake eating" yet. I think filing for the kids has cured that (unless you un-do that by making her think it's not about them).
And you know what? If you let her cake walk for a month or two,

THEN STOP. NOT AS MUCH AS damage comes from that as what happens when you pounce in to get more from her. That could set you back a lot more.



Patience, patience, patience.
Stick with what has worked, avoid what hasn't. Get over my insecurity and be confident that my W could actually WANT me again.

Thanks again 25yearsmlc!



YES!! PATIENCE.....

I really think if she comes to believe you are a great father, that you really DO make them your priority, that they are crazy about you, THAT is a lot for her to gloss over.

Especially if she sees you NOT trying to take over and NOT getting all jealous (another word for insecure!!) then she'll know you may really have changed.

A true 180 for you would be NOT CARING and NOT OBSESSING about this OM.

Of course she'll date. Who cares? NOT YOU! (You know he's no match for you!)

Who says he's a better catch? NO ONE HERE. Plus, As long as she sees you contrasting the negative images she had of you, with new positive images and new "data" that says you are NOT "that jerk" anymore

then you will be the better choice. And she will notice and then, IF IF IF she can put her dukes down and lower her walls, she will tell you. There will NOT be a lot of guess work.

And if by some odd chance, he really is better suited for her than you, so be it. Accept that and move on....it would also mean there is someone better suited for YOU as well.

But knowing that is at least a year away from now---

so you need to just keep showing up, doing your thing, MORE GAL (Seriously buddy, I'll send my list your way) STFU and learning to really like who you are becoming...

With a PMA and NOT POUNCING ON HER FOR MORE. Do not show her your neediness and do NOT fear or assume she'll think "oh he is not interested in me if he is not acting needy."

that's a lie we say to ourselves to justify asking for more AGAIN...to NOT be patient!

Don't do that game. We'll call you on it!

Make sense?
cool


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That makes total sense 25years! My natural instinct is to fix things, if something is broken I have an overwhelming need to fix it. It's a big part of what I do in my career. When my marriage fell apart I HAD to fix it, immediately! That backfired in a big way, to say the least.

I'm learning, slowly, that less is more in some ways in this sitch. I love my time with my kids and feel like I'm the best dad they could ever have. My life is insanely busy and that can be overwhelming at times yet I'm learning to manage it and find some balance. I take time to stop and smell the roses so to speak. I'm taking better care of myself, getting exercise and I think I look pretty good these days, all of that has to count for a lot with my W. If not, I'm a lot better person now than I ever was before and I'd never want to go back to being the guy I was back then.

On my way in to the office the "old me" came up with a thought of serenading my W with my acoustic guitar the next time I saw her. After reading your post and then looking at things in the way I'm learning to, I think that would be a BAD idea at this point.

So, I'll stay patient. This weekend I'm going to hang out with some new friends I've met in the last while, do some yard work at the acreage and play some guitar and sing a bit. It will be good. My W and kids are off on their mini holiday and I'm sure they're having a blast.


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one comment to the "Fixers" out there.

There have been times when I've just wanted to be heard, about a problem I had. I've wanted to share with my h, those things.

Like I had work related problems or a family problem with a sibling and a parent, or a bff, etc.

When I'd bring these up to my h, it SEEMED TO ME, that he'd very quickly suggest a "solution"--

"Get a different job", "tell your boss why he's wrong", "tell your brother it's none of his business what your mom is spending her money on", "put the kids in time out", "cut that friend off for good", ETC.

Now, a lot of those suggestions were reasonable, except that I had already thought of them, used them to no avail or rejected them as solutions,

AND OR I did not want those "fixes"...then.

For instance, I did not want a different job, I just wanted to vent for 5 minutes about a hard day I had. OR the kids may have been difficult for 4 hours straight, etc. I do not want to give them away (most days... cool)

H assumed I wanted HIM to fix it, or to tell me how to fix it.

But I did NOT want that.

I wanted h to listen to me and hear me, comfort me and that's it.

Unless I am missing out on something that somehow h knew but I didn't, it's highly unlikely that he'd come up with a solution I had not already considered, and used, or rejected.


Thing is, I just wanted to be heard and listened to. And maybe comforted.


When H tells me his "Fix it" solution, WHAT I WOULD HEAR WAS:

"W, I just told you how to fix it. Either do that or don't, but don't keep talking about it. I gave you the 'answer' and now you are just whining. Be quiet now."

Of course he was not telling me to stfu, but it FELT LIKE IT, b/c he was more or less "ending" the conversation with his fixes. Nothing left to talk about, right?

Do you see how my h meant well - but how it was NOT received well?

I did NOT want to be told how to fix it, I just wanted to be comforted.
His fixes seemed like "shut ups" to me, b/c they don't really allow for more sharing.

Fixes tend to "end the talk" and that ends the sharing. Which surprises and hurts my h.

Just thought I'd share that.


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Scorp,

I'd like to rephrase what 25 essentially said in these short words:

When you meet with a new friend that you enjoy being around and want to get to know him/her more (her...as in platonic friend), do you enter "friendship" talks with them or ask for a talk with them? No? Why not? Too weird. Precisely. Do you sit on the sofa waiting for the phone call from said friend? No you didn't. You just simply got on with your life with GAL, work, family, etc. Those friendships unfold naturally and organically. Nothing's forced, right?

Then you're going have to approach/treat W like a new friend you just met..say...last two weeks.

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Wonka - that was genius! I get it! It makes so much sense (and really she has been telling me that all along - even as happy H&W we didn't have "talks" about our relationship - we just talked)


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25, I've learned that my "fixes" are not always welcome. I'd thought in the past by trying to fix a problem for my W that I was showing her I cared. She usually just wanted me to listen and comfort her, something I was horrible at most of the time.

Live and learn. It does feel odd when we get together now and she tells me about a problem she's having and to not try to fix it or offer suggestions. It does seem though that by just listening, validating and trying to be understanding that it things between us have gone MUCH better than they would have in the past.

Thanks again for your post! Very insightful smile


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Wonka, I agree with uturn, your post does put things into perspective very well.

My insecurity has led to so many if not all of the problems that caused the marriage to break down. I need to just relax, keep doing what I've been doing and give things time.

I'll always be the father of our children, that has to mean a lot to my W. In time, if she can see I'm a pretty good guy and an even better dad that could pull us back together.


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Originally Posted By: Scorp7

I'll always be the father of our children, that has to mean a lot to my W. In time, if she can see I'm a pretty good guy and an even better dad that could pull us back together.


My W said to me "Being a great father is meaningless to me when you're a horrible husband".


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mindsin, I think being a good husband also would be needed for my W. To get to that point again she needs to see that I'm doing great with our kids and well on my own. THEN she might want to see if I could be a good husband again.


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Men fixing things when listening is all that is required is a big thing in Men are from Mars, women are from Venus.


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Here is another dilemma we're facing. We've had our acreage listed for sale for the past 3 months and we have not had one single showing. It doesn't sound like we've even had an inquiry. We're going to change up our listing and lower our price again so that may help, we'll see.

Here's the problem. If the property does not sell my W and I are in a very tough way financially if she continues to insist on staying in her province. If she were to come back to my province I could likely afford to keep our acreage and our financial woes would be solved.

Should I ask my W once again if she will consider moving back to my province? I wouldn't be asking her to move back with me, just to the same area where we made our life. It would be the best thing for she and I as well as for our kids. Her parents seem to be the only thing that is keeping her in the other province. She does have a good job there as well but I'm sure she could get an even better position back here.

I had asked her previously if she would move back and she said NO. That was before we had made the progress that we had in our relationship and before facing the issue of our place not selling. She may be forced to face the possibility that our place just won't sell and that she might have to move back anyway.

Should I ask her again to move back?


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Hold on a slow cotton pickin' minute....first things first:

-Who is the owner of this property?
-When was this property purchased?
-What is the value of the property?
-Who's been paying property tax on it?

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My W and I own the property jointly.

We had the home built and it was completed in early 2012.

The value of the property is roughly 750000. It would be worth more if the basement was finished, landscaping was completed, etc etc.

I have been paying all of the mortgage and taxes on the property since it was built.

Here's another issue. If she stays in the other province I am forced to pay for another place to live there once my kids are back in school in September. I used our RV for May and June which was fine. That will only work for September and part of October as it will be too cold after that. Then I would need to rent an apartment plus play for our acreage as well as sending her support for our kids (even though we have 50/50 custody I am still required to pay her support since I make a lot more money than she does).


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You cannot "force" someone to do something they don't want to do, Scorp.

I'd put this to W in a neutral way and ask what she would like to do in regard to the property. Get her thoughts and input on this matter. Avoid trying to weasel your agenda into the discussion. Zip it. Hear W's thoughts and she may have some suggestions to think about.

Just state the facts and show her hard data. Then ask what she would like to do about this.


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I had recently tried to ask her for her thoughts on our financial situation in general and didn't get very far. I laid things out in very broad simple terms and then asked her if she had an ideas on how we might deal with things. Her only response at the time was she didn't have any ideas.


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I see what the problem here is.

You're are taking a scattershot approach by talking about the "financial situation in general" which is a form of pressure on W. It's too much and I suspect that it may be a tactic to temp check.

You do need to talk about one topic here: property. Nothing more.

Don't bring up mortgage, bills, insurance, whatnot.

Make sense?

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I agree, if I just ask about our property and nothing else that may be best. Keep it as straight forward as possible.


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There is part of me that thinks there is no point in asking my W to move back to my province, simply because I would be shocked if she actually agreed to even consider it.

I feel I need to ask anyway, due to all of the issues we're facing financially as well as for the long term benefit of our kids having her back in my province makes the most sense.

Do you all think I should ask?

I am meeting with her to pick my kids up tomorrow night, hopefully we can sit down and talk like we have been each week.


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Originally Posted By: Scorp7
Do you all think I should ask?

No.

Lay out the financial facts and ask her what she thinks should be done.


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I could say "the house hasn't had any interest, if it continues that way for the next year what should we do?". Also I could add "my staying in your province with the kids will cost more money that we don't have, do you have any ideas on that?".


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Maybe I shouldn't say anything about waiting for a year to sell the house and just leave it at "if the house doesn't sell". If we basically gave it away it would sell but I don't think she would want to do that either.

As others on the forum have said about their WAS, it seems like I don't know who my W is. Maybe I never did know her and she was simply trying to be what she thought I wanted her to be. Apparently she is now cheering for her home province's football team, lol. When we were together she said she hated that team and cheered for my team, lol. Might be a minor thing and yet it does seem to show she will morph into whatever she needs to be to please whoever she's with.


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I like Drew's idea. Give her the facts and let her figure it out for herself. Is your child support fixed or is it an agreed sum between you and W?


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Also, and this is just my take, it stills seems like you're giving her all the power in this.

What does Scorp want? What's good for Scorp? What's good for Scorp's kids?

And you can't use a "but" in your reply.

Betcha can't do it....

smile


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The child support has been agreed upon between my W and I. I'm actually paying her slightly more than what I would be if it went through the courts.


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Drew...lol. What I want is to stay in my province, it's best for my kids, it would be best for me, it would be best for my W as well, whether we were together or not.

I'd like to keep my house, my kids love it, I love it and we all sacrificed a lot to have it.

Ultimately though, I want my family back together again, someday. I want to see my kids everyday. I want to have a happy life with my W and kids. My kids want this as much as I do.

There... no "buts", lol.


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Originally Posted By: Scorp7
it would be best for my W as well,

Oh?

Come on, Scorp, you've learned more than that, I hope.

Tell me why I picked that out of your response.


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I'd say that it could be mind reading, my W likely wouldn't see it that way etc. The reason I said that though was because she would be better off in virtually every way if she was back here. I don't mean back with me, just back in my province.

She has her parents there, she has a decent job there, that's about it. She could have a much better job here, be financially secure and have a lot more opportunity to build a new life for herself here.

That's her business, it's not mine right now other than we have kids together so we need to hopefully agree on some of this for their sake.


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Scorp,

You're not listening.

SHE DOESN'T FEEL THAT WAY!!!!


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Scorp,

Are you able to:

1) Keep your house? Is it financially doable for you do to so alone?

2) Keep your property as a single owner?

If that is not financially possible, then it looks like you can keep the house and sell the property? Is that right?

Drew and others are correct that W is NOT interested in moving back to the province. That is the reality you must deal with at the moment.

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Drew,

Originally Posted By: Drew
Also, and this is just my take, it stills seems like you're giving her all the power in this.


Not to nitpick here...but Scorp's wife is the co-owner of the property and she does have a say in how its deposited. I believe the house is under Scorp's care as a sole homeowner...right? So that means Scorp can keep the house if he wishes to do so.

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I completely understand that she is the co-owner of the house.


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I could keep the house and manage it on my own if my wife wanted to move back to my province. It makes no sense to keep it however if she stays where she is. I need to be living primarily wherever the kids are in school. If she stays there then the kids will be in school there unless I was to go to court and try to change that. I don't think a court battle is a good option.

If she is unwilling to move AND the house does not sell then that may be a different scenario. I could offer to buy her out of our home and keep it provided she moves back here.

I'm due to see her tonight when I pick up my kids. Any last suggestions on what to say or not say?


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Scorp,

Leave W out of the equation. She's not moving back at all. This is her stance at the moment.

-Can you afford to keep the house by yourself?
-Can you afford to keep the land by yourself?

I am assuming that the land and the house are two separate properties?


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The land and the house are all one property. It's an acreage on 5 acres of land.

I could afford to keep them on my own. It doesn't make sense
though as my kids are enrolled in school 4 hours away from my home and for them to be with me every other week I need to be there.

If I wasn't paying my W what I am in support then I could afford to rent something or even buy something over there. I don't see that it makes sense to maintain two residences though. I will be forced to do that at least until the acreage sells.

To put this into perspective, and I hope I don't offend anyone with this, my wife has essentially moved to an area that could be compared to Detroit as far as crime and unemployment are concerned. We were living in an area comparable to say North Dakota (from what I hear it has one of the best economies in the US) as far as the economy and job prospects. It makes no sense at all for her to live where she is other than that is where her parents are.


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Originally Posted By: Scorp7


To put this into perspective, and I hope I don't offend anyone with this, my wife has essentially moved to an area that could be compared to Detroit as far as crime and unemployment are concerned. We were living in an area comparable to say North Dakota (from what I hear it has one of the best economies in the US) as far as the economy and job prospects. It makes no sense at all for her to live where she is other than that is where her parents are.


Scorp, forgive me, I'm not totally up on your sich, but don't underestimate the stabilizing value of the grandparents. If they are involved with your kids lives in a positive way, that's a huge bonus and possibly worth the move alone.

Also, another thought is that as the grandparents grow older, your W will spend more time caring for them, and if they live near W, that will be less time away for her and less stress on the whole family.

I live 800 miles away from my parents and I have these things on my mind. Moving back to that town isn't an option for me, but I can see the appeal.



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Scorp,

You've been arguing for months that your province is a better place to live. I can see how you'd feel that way.

Her position hasn't budged. And the more you try to convince her otherwise, the more she'll stand her ground.

You're also leaving something else out of the equation - she has a friend.


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Originally Posted By: Wonka
Scorp,

Leave W out of the equation. She's not moving back at all. This is her stance at the moment.

^ This

Drew mentioned a couple of pages back that you just present the facts to her and let her make her own decisions on the property. If you can afford it on your own, things may be tight for a while. If you can't, where can you pull a few extra dollars from? You can't force your wife into anything. You've done so well to get to this point. Please remember what got you here. Controlling her isn't the answer.


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Thanks again for all your input. I agree, I need to just keep it simple, STFU within reason and present the facts to her. I'm going to try to keep it as light and positive as I can and then hear her thoughts. If she's unwilling to discuss it then there's nothing I can do about that. I can't control her.

Wish me luck!


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Well, a lot has happened since my last posting. My W's mother has been coming along with her for the exchanges with the kids. It prevented us from talking last week but this week we sat down and talked anyway while her mother sat in the car with our kids.

I did offer her the option of moving back to my province, giving her enough money to get her own very nice place and then I would keep our house. She refuses to leave her province even though our place has had zero interest and selling it may mean letting it go for almost nothing. She said she's very happy where she is and doesn't want to give that up. I told her I want her to be happy however we are still tied to our life we made back home. It does not seem to matter.

So, things once again look less than great. I am VERY thankful that she at least is co-parenting with me and sharing time with our kids equally. I can't fathom that she is willing to have us go into bankruptcy so that she can be happy. Perhaps, given more time to think, she may change her mind. I guess we'll see.


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At least you have your answer. Now you can concentrate on building your life in your wife's province.


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I wish that were true Barry. Until, or maybe I should say IF our acreage sells, we are in limbo. There's not really any point in even looking at new homes over there until we at least have some interest. Then there is the issue of not having the money to pay for our old place, rent a new place in her area so I can be with the kids now that school is almost ready to go again as well as give her the support money.

I can't say I was surprised she wouldn't agree to move back. I was blown away though by just how single minded she is about her own happiness. It seems her happiness is all that counts. I told her I want her to be happy however we're still in a reality that says our life is in my province.

My D7 called me late last night and was crying. She wanted to come home and missed me. I don't know how my W can see that happening and be unwilling to do anything about it. I also don't know how she can be happy and see our kids going through what they are.


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I get where you're coming from. It's the hand you've been dealt and you just have to play with the cards you've got. You know for certain your wife isn't moving so you move onto plan B. What can you do to be able to afford to build a life in your wife's province?


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My W seems to have a split personality, or an extremely hard time being honest, or maybe it is her mother pushing her to do what she's done. I tend to firmly believe it's a combination of all of those things with the last point being the strongest reason for her actions.

We just met last Thursday and discussed everything. We didn't agree on everything and yet I thought it was a good discussion. She told me several times she didn't want to use lawyers anymore. She also knew my plans for the coming months if she continued to refuse to move back to my province.

Then on Monday I received a letter....from her lawyer!!!! In it she said that she thought the trailer wasn't suitable for the kids to stay in so until I had secured a permanent residence in the area my time with the kids would only be on weekends. Wow....

I had my kids with me every other week in our trailer for the entire months of May and June while they were in school. Our trailer is very large, it's likely bigger than many people's apartments. I had only planned to use it for the month of September as it will start to get a bit cold after that. I made that very clear to my W. It seems she is looking for any excuse she can to try to cause problems for the shared parenting time we've had going over the past four months.

I had also been unable to talk to my kids for the past 5 days after I dropped them off with her last Thursday. My D7 phoned me two hours after I left, she was crying and said she wanted to come home. I told her I would talk to her the next night but for several days I was unable to reach them. My W would have overheard my D7 talking with me so I can't fathom how she could deny my kids from having contact me for that long. I've repeatedly told my W to call to talk to our kids anytime she wants when they are with me, something she almost never does.

My lawyer is drafting a letter to respond to her lawyers letter which will reiterate that I intend to do everything necessary to continue the shared parenting arrangement we've had. It's insane because neither my W or I can afford to use lawyers at this point, something she seemed to acknowledge up until this Monday. I will be picking my kids up again tomorrow and then get ready to have them back in school the following week.

I am going to stick to what I've been doing. I'm putting my kids first and will do what I have to in order to make sure they have both parents equally. We are facing financial ruin, something that could be easily avoided if my W would come back to my province, it doesn't look like she will ever do that and would rather see us in bankruptcy so she can stay where she's "happy".

I'm meeting with my bank today to see what else I can possible do to keep us going. Wish me luck!


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Scorp,

Be careful of labeling W as having a 'split personality'. She is conflicted for sure. One thing that's pretty clear is that she is still resolute in moving forward with a D so you'll need to adjust your mindset accordingly.

Then on Monday I received a letter....from her lawyer!!!! In it she said that she thought the trailer wasn't suitable for the kids to stay in so until I had secured a permanent residence in the area my time with the kids would only be on weekends. Wow....


I hope you had your L address this in the letter to her L. Challenge this and push back on this. Also state that you have a nice home in your province that is FAR MORE suitable for the kids with better opportunities (according to you).

Don't fall on the sword just for the sake of appeasing W. From here and on, it is all about the kids.

I had also been unable to talk to my kids for the past 5 days after I dropped them off with her last Thursday. My D7 phoned me two hours after I left, she was crying and said she wanted to come home. I told her I would talk to her the next night but for several days I was unable to reach them. My W would have overheard my D7 talking with me so I can't fathom how she could deny my kids from having contact me for that long. I've repeatedly told my W to call to talk to our kids anytime she wants when they are with me, something she almost never does.

I hope you instructed L to inform W's L that you want unfettered access to the kids at all times.

We are facing financial ruin, something that could be easily avoided if my W would come back to my province, it doesn't look like she will ever do that and would rather see us in bankruptcy so she can stay where she's "happy".

It doesn't matter what YOU think is the correct way to handle this for W is far far far gooooone! She DOES NOT want to be in your province. Jeepers! Try to tattoo this on your forehead.

She does not want to be married to you any longer.

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Originally Posted By: Scorp7
My W seems to have a split personality, or an extremely hard time being honest, or maybe it is her mother pushing her to do what she's done. I tend to firmly believe it's a combination of all of those things with the last point being the strongest reason for her actions.

Scorp, I know you don't like to hear it, but there is another factor in play here. Don't discount that influence.

I agree with everything Wonka says. It's time to take off the gloves and lawyer up. You need a temporary custody order immediately.


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I have moved on, as much as I can at this point anyway, and realize that she definitely not only does not want to live in my province she absolutely doesn't want to be married to me any longer. That's been VERY clear for a long time now.

The thing is, whether she wants to or not, there is reality to consider. If our home in my province does not sell and we continue the way we are, we will go under. If she came back, we not only would not go under she could have a nice place of her own, I could keep the place our kids love, everyone is great other than she doesn't get to live where she wants.

I don't know for sure if she's seriously with this other guy over there or not. Frankly, I don't care as long as he does not do anything what so ever to harm my kids. Regardless, she has a choice to make, her new flame in her province or come back to the old and have her kids be secure for a long time to come.

I have made sure my lawyer will insist on the custody order. It has also been noted that I am incurring extreme financial hardship because of her actions. I've also had her include the fact I have paid for ALL of the expenses related to the acreage property. If she wants to be nasty then I will be going after her for paying her share which is a VERY large bill at this point.

I do still love my wife, I likely always will. Having said that, I hate what she is doing to all of us for the sake of her own happiness. It doesn't seem that she is even truly happy. I can accept that we won't be together as hard as that is, it's not the life I wanted for my kids. What I can't accept, or at least I can't understand, is her insistence on living where she is. She can have a great life back in my province, we could move on immediately and with all of us much better off than if we continue to go down the path she's forcing us on.

I've definitely lawyered up, it's cost me a LOT of money already. Money I did not want to give to a lawyer. Money that should have gone to my kids. I don't see that I had a choice. I can only do what I can, try to control what I have control over. My W is still dictating a lot of the situation, she will always be involved. That's something I can't control and as long as she continues to make the decisions she has then my family is in for a much harder road ahead than we would have had to face otherwise.


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Scorp,

The thing is, whether she wants to or not, there is reality to consider. If our home in my province does not sell and we continue the way we are, we will go under. If she came back, we not only would not go under she could have a nice place of her own, I could keep the place our kids love, everyone is great other than she doesn't get to live where she wants.

She doesn't share your POV at all.

I have made sure my lawyer will insist on the custody order. It has also been noted that I am incurring extreme financial hardship because of her actions. I've also had her include the fact I have paid for ALL of the expenses related to the acreage property. If she wants to be nasty then I will be going after her for paying her share which is a VERY large bill at this point.

Then put it writing in response to W's L.

I do still love my wife, I likely always will. Having said that, I hate what she is doing to all of us for the sake of her own happiness. It doesn't seem that she is even truly happy.


It is totally understandable that you still love your W. You cannot possibly know how W feels. This is mindreading here.

What I can't accept, or at least I can't understand, is her insistence on living where she is. She can have a great life back in my province, we could move on immediately and with all of us much better off than if we continue to go down the path she's forcing us on.

It doesn't matter. All it matters is at this point, W doesn't want to be married to you nor does she want to be in your province. She wants to be near her parents and that's that.

BTW, she's trying to chart a new path for herself and it is not for you to decide if she can have a great life in your province. If she thought that way, she'd have stayed in your province.

You. cannot. control. W.

My W is still dictating a lot of the situation, she will always be involved. That's something I can't control and as long as she continues to make the decisions she has then my family is in for a much harder road ahead than we would have had to face otherwise.


Because you've let her to do so for months and months. Then you get shocked with a letter from her L. Why? We've warned you all along that the possibility of it happening may happen.

You will have it rough for a while as now you are in the v. phase...that's why they put the v. in between the parties to borrow from one of Starsky's gems. It is now a business negotiation.

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Because you've let her to do so for months and months. Then you get shocked with a letter from her L. Why? We've warned you all along that the possibility of it happening may happen.


I wasn't totally shocked, nothing would do that at this point. I was a bit surprised though that since she had just sent me an email on Thursday that said "talking together is better than going through the lawyers who are more than willing to take money...whether it is there or not.". We met that same day and talked at length, and then she has her lawyer send another letter a few days later.

I can't control my wife, that is for sure. She may find out soon though that others are going to assert their control of the situation and it may effect things she thinks she has control over now. Case in point, if the bank forecloses on our home then we both will lose a lot of the control of the situation and we both will walk away with nothing. Does that sound like the best option for our kids?


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Originally Posted By: Scorp7
Does that sound like the best option for our kids?

Scorp, go back to what Wonka said about the v. phase. It seems like you still feel that she will cooperate with you "for the good of the kids."

I don't think she feels the same.

You're not teammates anymore Scorp. She's got a very different plan than you do.


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You're right Drew, we're not teammates anymore. I had hoped though that we could try to put our own wants and wishes aside to try to do what was best for the kids. She will need money and credit to go down the path she's chosen. If she doesn't face reality she likely will have neither.


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That's not your issue anymore. Just what's best for you and your children.


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Yup...that's right ^^.

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Hi Scorp, just checking in on your sitch, as I haven't been around much lately.

I am sorry to tell you this, but you are NEVER going to understand why your W does what she does, or thinks what she thinks, or why she is insisting on spending a bunch of money you don't have on lawyers, or why she is staying in her parents' province even though the price is so high. You just aren't. So you just need to do what the others said up there - you look out for you and your kids. And if YOU need to make sacrifices to do it, then that's what you have to do. Does it suck? YES! But you do not have a choice. Ask your L what you can expect to happen if you fight her on this stuff. The things your L says you are going to lose, give them up. Now. Whether you agree with it or not. The things your L says you will win - decide whether you are willing to pay your L to get that win for you. That is ALL you can do. Stop messing around with trying to convince her of things, or fix things, or whatever, and just get to work figuring out how things are going to be, and how you are going to make things work for you and your kids. Trust me, because I know from experience, all you are doing right now is making yourself crazy. smile


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Hey Mel!!! laugh

How are you doing, my friend??!! If you are able, I'd love to hear an update from you.

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I've managed to pare down my expenses even further so that will help a little bit.

We are dropping the asking price on our acreage to nearly the bare minimum we need to pay off the bank and the realtor. IF it sells then we at least will be free to move on. She will be walking away with almost nothing, so will I. My kids LOVE their home, doesn't seem to matter to her.

I'm picking my kids up tonight, making the 500 kilometer round trip once again. At least my W has been willing to come part of the way over the summer, otherwise it would be a 800 kilometer trip each time. Once my kids are back in school and until the acreage sells I'll be back to travelling the whole 800 kilometers each week.

They will be home for a few days and then we're headed back to her province on Monday to be ready for the start of school on Tuesday. I'll have my kids with me all week which will be awesome as always, especially with school starting.

I'll be seeing my W tonight. Not sure that I will bother talking to her much other than to inform her of some of the financial updates from this week. We had been exchanging the kids on Thursdays over the summer and had planned to switch back to Fridays when school started so I think I'll keep my kids the extra day this week.

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Now that the market has determined that you don't have a lot of equity built up in the house - it would be easier to buy her out of her half.

Just sayin.


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Hi Wonka! I will post an update soon! smile

Scorp, sorry for the hijack. Glad you are getting some good advice here.


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Hi all! It's been a while! Where do I start?

Things had been getting better. My W and I were meeting every week when we exchanged our kids and things were going great. We were talking, laughing, hanging out. Everything seemed to be finally going in a positive direction. That is until October.

My kids had wanted me to go around with them trick or treating and had been asking their Mom for this for many months. She would never give them a straight answer when they asked about it which was causing them a lot of anxiety. Finally, after my D7's gymnastics class, all of us were leaving together when the topic of Halloween came up. My D7 asked her Mom if I could come with them. One thing led to another and I made the brutal mistake of getting drawn into an argument with my W, with the kids there as well frown Like I said, brutal.

So, since that time, my W has stopped talking to me directly. She barely will even respond to a text. It's been a huge setback for all of us. I'm trying to stay patient, not push anything.

In other news, the house was listed for 6 months and did not have one single showing. I didn't relist with the realtor, we are going to try again soon. I have rented an apartment over in her province and have been travelling back and forth each week. It's hard but it's so worth it.


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"One thing led to another and I made the brutal mistake of getting drawn into an argument with my W, with the kids there as well frown Like I said, brutal.
"

Doesn't seem like something so minor could have caused such ill feelings. What did the two of you say?


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I wouldn't say it was minor, I definitely didn't want to get drawn in to an argument. A weak moment for me for sure.

Basically what happened was my D7 asked my W if I could come with them. My W once again said she would talk to her later, something she'd been doing for months. I made the HUGE mistake of saying "don't worry about it D7, she isn't going to say yes anyway". Bad idea.

My W said she was planning to make a deal with me for the time with them that day. I said the kids time shouldn't be a deal, they wanted us both there. She flipped out and said we shouldn't do things jointly with the kids because we're not together and that she has tried being friends with me but she just can't do it. It went on from there for about another minute. I didn't raise my voice or curse, it still was a very dumb move on my part.


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At least you know it was a dumb move. How is your relationship with the kids now that you're with them more often?


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It's been awesome with my kids. Our week together is great, they love being with me even though we're in an apartment most of the time right now. It's great to know that they don't really care where we are, just that we're together. My D7 tells me all the time she wants to stay with me and going back to her Mom is often pretty traumatic for her.

My W seems to have retreated since the argument. As lousy as it was, I don't think it was nearly bad enough to warrant not speaking with me for nearly two months now. Apparently she does. All I can do is be patient, stick with biting my tongue and with time things will hopefully get better again.

She's asked me to bring a few more things for her from the acreage. Considering everything she's done a part of me wants to tell her no. That would be petty on my part though so I'll likely go along with her.

It's a roller coaster. I'm out and meeting new people, getting a new life for myself. Some days I feel like I can do anything and that everything will be fine no matter what. Then there are other days where I get an overwhelming feeling of loss and I miss my W very much.

On a more positive note, my band played it's first show again since I started it back up. It felt so good to be up there again. We're booking more shows, only in the time when I don't have my kids, it's been a very good thing for me to get back to.


Me-40,W-37
D7, D5, S3
Separated Oct 3/2013
T 11 YRS
M 7 YRS
Joined: Dec 2013
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That's awesome that you've got your band back together. Not much you can do about your wife. Just stay patient and hopefully her attitude towards you will change.


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 649
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Scorp7 Offline OP
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Thanks Barry, good to hear from you again! I'm learning levels of patience I didn't think were possible lol.


Me-40,W-37
D7, D5, S3
Separated Oct 3/2013
T 11 YRS
M 7 YRS
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 649
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Scorp7 Offline OP
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Hello again! I haven't been posting very much for a while now. My life is still a bit crazy. I'm learning to deal with that craziness and not worry about it nearly as much as I did in the past.

I've been living in two provinces since last September. During my week with my kids I make the 4+ hour trip to my Ws town, my kids and I have an apartment there. When the kids go back to Mom I travel back and stay at our acreage, work in the office, pretty much as I always did before D day.

I've had 50/50 time with my kids since May of 2014 and, in my opinion, it's the best thing the kids can hope for when Mom and Dad aren't together. Their lives outside of home don't change but they have two homes instead of one (actually at the moment they have 3 since we still have our acreage and the kids spent their weeks with me in the summer there).

As far as any sort of reconciliation with my W, I won't say I've given up hope. I'm not sure if or when it could ever happen, I only know that I will leave the door open for it to happen for a long time yet.

My W and I have some good weeks and some not so good weeks. She is still being heavily influenced by her Mother (she's still living with her parents). Someday maybe things can change. When I see her each week I try to be as genuinely friendly as I can be. My hope is for us to be friends again someday and then who knows.


Me-40,W-37
D7, D5, S3
Separated Oct 3/2013
T 11 YRS
M 7 YRS
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
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Good to hear from you again, Scorp. Sounds like a positive update and I'm glad you and the kids are doing well.


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 649
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Scorp7 Offline OP
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Thanks Barry! How are things with you these days?

I think, despite everything, I'm doing better personally than I ever have. I still have a ways to go to get to where I want to be. I know I'll get there.

I've got an awful lot to be thankful for smile


Me-40,W-37
D7, D5, S3
Separated Oct 3/2013
T 11 YRS
M 7 YRS
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
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I'm in much the same place as you at the moment; doing better personally but a ways to go. I'm glad you can be thankful for what you have.


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 649
S
Scorp7 Offline OP
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Good to hear you're doing well! I've found that I had to let go of the past.
As much as I want my W back, I can't control what she does, only what I do. The past is gone and will never come back and truthfully I'd never want to go back to being the person I was before.

No matter what happens I know my future will be great, my kids have both their parents and I'm better than I've ever been.

I also think the more positively we think about the future the better our present is AND there's a much better chance for the future to be what we hope it to be.


Me-40,W-37
D7, D5, S3
Separated Oct 3/2013
T 11 YRS
M 7 YRS
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
B
Member
Offline
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
I love your attitude, Scorp. Good things will certainly come from it.


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
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