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"I know this will stoke some resentment and push back from members of the community, but part of me gets angry and upset that she is being so black and white about the whole thing."

Shows you really haven't learned much. I'm sure you wouldn't think it was a big deal if she had another guy's d*ck in her, right? I mean that should be something that you could just "get over".

"She's the victim and I'm the perpetrator. She's spent very little energy on trying to understand ME and WHY this may have happened."

Weren't you the one who said that the reason why you did it was because she didn't fulfill you sexually? Oh I'm sure she understands why it happened. How would you like to be told that you weren't filling your significant other's sexual needs so they had to go somewhere else? Shame on her for not being more understanding about that.

I know that doesn't matter to her. She's said, "It doesn't matter WHY it happened, It matters THAT is happened." I understand that, but I also feel like if we really had a deep love that she'd want to put her anger aside and talk about it. No?

"I mean, I never PURPOSEFULLY hurt her. That would imply malicious intent. My affair was a result of delusional thinking -- thinking that I NEEDED another person to feel whole, thinking I'd never get caught, thinking what you don't know can't hurt you. It was all SICK, distorted thinking."

Oh I see, so because of that, she should just get over it. Your d*ck just fell into someone else. You had a choice. Period. You just chose to make the wrong one and are dealing with the consequences of that choice. You don't seem to get that despite saying you do.

"But at no point did I decide "I'm going to hurt this woman who loves me so much."

Yes you did. When you unzipped your pants.

"I know this community says to wait and let her heal. But I get so scared that the longer I wait, the further she goes away from me. I know my efforts to maintain contact have only upset her. I'm hearing the crystal clear advice from Bond, Maybell, Zeus and others. I'm just wondering how we know these tactics work? Is it from your own experience? "

What we are saying to you aren't "tactics". It's the plain truth. You messed up with your actions and have to deal with the consequences of those actions. You just don't seem to get that part of taking responsibility of your actions is dealing with the consequences with humility.

Getting angry because you feel she doesn't "get it", shows you lack that humility.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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Ok, I expected that response. I'm learning in fits and starts and appreciate the tough love. I'm just grabbing at straws here. I go back and forth between self-loathing and suicidal thoughts to getting angry and petulant and wanting to try to change things.

I think back to those moments when I was with her and didn't appreciate her, and I try to unpack it... What was going on in my head? Why did I never feel "sure?" Were we really not a match? Was that my intuition speaking? Or was that my fear of commitment?

So many questions. So much to learn. So very too late to figure it out and save this relationship...


Me: 39 - W: 35
Together: 2 years, no kids
My Affair: 1.5 years
Affair ended: 4/9/14
Affair revealed: 5/19/14
Last Contact: 8/2/14
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But necessary work so you don't do it again.


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
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Originally Posted By: DBinSF
I wrote her a text on our anniversary. We were supposed to celebrate it at my family's rented beach house in NJ (we live in CA).

did you think SHE forgot that? I suspect she knew exactly what day it was, and how shattered HER dreams are. I think it must have hurt her so much to have to endure that day...not sure if you thought of that, b/c I think you put YOUR pain ahead of hers, again...and you need to see that to her, it may just look selfish of you. Do the "math"...

Only consistent change + sufficient time = change she can believe in.


I still don't know exactly what your changes are, but I DO know your time line is one of a pre-teen. You have not been here long and you are wildly out of line with reality, about how many months (at least) it'll take before she can even have coffee with you.

The rush to reconcile after what she's been thru (I'm thinking it's like she has PTSD) is a bad idea for her AND you.

You need to Grow up and get a grip on yourself and stop showing her how immature you are. That's how the rush to reconcile, looks. Instead,

You want her to see a MAN who has learned a lesson the hard way; not a spoiled adolescent stomping his feet, DEMANDING that she give him another chance!

Or a guy who feels MOST SORRY for HIMSELF in this ordeal, (not her) which I kind of think you are doing....and or, a guy who cannot stop making his case.

Just Back off! Yeah, You could have written a note to her on that day, I suppose.

But NOT YOUR NOTE. You HAD to add your hopes!!! that a year from now you will be together LAUGHING about this,?? No, that was inexplicably insensitive. Sorry, but that does make it sound like you do NOT get it.



It said, "Lovely Julia, I just wanted to let you know you're in my thoughts, especially on this date. Just know that everyone here loves you and misses you. I pray that with enough hardwork, love, and faith that we can all be back here laughing together this time next year. I have enough of each for the two of us."

The ^^^ uncrossed parts would have been the MOST you could have said and even that is too much ---

But when you revealed your agenda (AGAIN), instead of just giving her something without attaching an expectation/want of yours to it, you showed your true colors, which is all about your needs.


Focus on learning empathy. Giving, not taking.

When I read your comments about how sex is best when you are able to objectify the woman, (fear of intimacy on your end) and the pattern you have of repetitive cheating, including emailing past girlfriends even after you knew how much it hurt your gf, well it isn't painting a good picture of you as a partner.

Frankly, I'm not sure what's in it for HER to be with you anyhow. I don't say that to be mean and I'm not saying it lightly.

But until you know that this trait is being dealt with, YOU are not doing her a favor by pursuing her as you are now.

If you really love her like you say, you'll go off and do the work you need to do to become the man she deserves. Right now, she deserves more than you can give.


Well, she responded with some accusations that I'm continuing to lie about unrelated stuff on FB, spinning facts to make myself look good. And it turned into a two day back and forth of her telling me to leave her alone and go away and me saying "We were so good when we we good, we have so much love and joy ahead of us...Please just tell me one thing I can do to start to rebuild trust."


STOP MAKING DEMANDS...you are not in any position to request anything of her. Do you get that? IF things were ever really good with you two, then STFU and let her remember that! Right now you keep challenging her choice to break up and the more you challenge her choices, the more you force her to defend them.

Back off. No, really. IF there is hope, it'll be by NOT Contacting her til at least 100 days have passed. Personally I'd recommend a year of serious counseling and hoping that by this Christmas, MAYBE she'll have dinner with you. OR better yet, lunch. Just to "Catch up". Let her learn to relax around you (requires you NOT pushing for more), and in time try to build on THAT.

Once she is relaxed around you (Which will take TIME during which you make NO demands or requests of her, no whining or pining for more...)

then she may realize what you two had/could again have.

AND if her biological clock is ticking, she'll be more likely to want to reconnect with YOU b/c she knows you well enough and doesn't have to "get to know" you from the very start.

Of course, this is Assuming she believes it won't happen again and THAT is her biggest fear. That she'd be a fool to take you back***.B/C the single biggest reason betrayed spouses do not take their wayward spouses back, is b/c they fear it will happen again

AND OR

that the cheater does not take seriously enough how deeply wounded the betrayed spouse is...
The faster you rush her to reconcile the more it seems you don't fully appreciate the gravity of her pain...you are very focussed on YOUR pain here, but I hope that's not your focus with her.

God only knows what the letter from OW said, but if it was all detailed in its' glory, AND OR if you said you "loved" OW (or made disparaging comments about your gf which OW shared with your gf),

then it's possible that too much water has gone under the bridge.

No, SHE DOES NOT KNOW IF THIS IS THE CASE, YET So do not ask her if that is the case. Only time will reveal that.

I don't know what it said or how bad it got, but the letter from OW sounds bad.


It ended with her threatening to block my number. Totally NOT the result I was hoping for. I know I just need to leave her alone. I do need to get a grip.


So, then I don't need to point ^^^ To that, & say "Yes, you clearly do."


I'm sorry I haven't been able to act upon the great advice I've gotten from this community. I've been TOTALLY spun out for weeks. Can't eat, can't sleep, can't work. I'm falling through the cracks with anxiety and depression...


We all have been where you are in some form. We KNOW how badly you feel. We get it. Some of us were married for decades and had children, and were facing the loss of what we'd spent years building...so we DO know what it is like to obsess and do the opposite of what we needed to do.

But at those most desperate times we had to dig deep, reach inside, PRAY if you are a believer, and LISTEN to good advice (while ignoring the bad). I know that It is hard.

But you know what is harder? It's harder to keep blowing it, only to then wonder if we could have just saved it then,

but that instead we again caused a self inflicted wound on our hearts...I think that is worse, and I think that stinks when it happens.

See, it's at those times that you MUST take the advice you are getting. B/C while none of us know how to "get your gf back"--

most of us do know how you can RUIN Your chances of a recon, and that is what we are trying to warn you away from...

So LISTEN, & Man Up & Settle down, or you could wreck things for too long.

Okay?

The good news is I have friends who are supporting me and a therapist who gets me. And I connected with my father in a way last night that I don't think I ever have before. He actually held me and consoled me for the first time in my life, and he gave me encouragement that was more than "Go get 'em." So, maybe that's the gift of this whole situation.



That is a gift & it is to be treasured. Cherish that. Maybe someday, (like a year or more from now), it's something you could tell your gf that you learned FROM this experience, A LONG LONG TIME from now...

keep growing. It's the one good thing that these ordeals can provide, if we are brave and loving and are willing to CHANGE.

Last edited by 25yearsmlc; 07/30/14 04:55 AM.

M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
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Thanks, 25yearsmic. I totally hear you. She actually said she'd "totally forgotten" about our anniversary. I guess we all lie a little sometimes.

I know I'm being a petulant selfish little weasel. The only reason I'm "in a rush" is I know she's hell-bent on getting married and having a kid. I'm SO freaked out she will meet someone, rebound, get hitched, and start popping out kids. She already had one rebound marriage before she met me. So, she's been known to "move on" extremely quickly, even if it's not the best situation.

At the end of the day, I understand how much this has shattered her. Her ego, her confidence, her sense of self-trust (how did she not know I was a liar?), etc. We had SO MANY good memories, and now she views them ALL as lies. I know they weren't lies. I know I was in love. And I also know I was extremely two-faced and selfish, and that I took advantage of her infinite trust and ability to assume the best.

I know I need to wait. I know I need to accept the consequences. I just don't know what to do with the CONSTANT obsession and feelings of cortisol in my system. I'm seeing a therapist and going to 12-step, but GOD this is hard. Yes, I know it's probably twice as hard for her. But she won't show me that side of her. She is the classiest, proudest lady in California. And I love her for it.

So... I just work on myself and wait. That's the solution?


Me: 39 - W: 35
Together: 2 years, no kids
My Affair: 1.5 years
Affair ended: 4/9/14
Affair revealed: 5/19/14
Last Contact: 8/2/14
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Yes and no. Don't wait... Work on yourself. Live forward. You're not waiting because you're doing. Not contacting her is an action in itself. Every day you don't contact her is an action in support of her healing. Simultaneously you work on making sure you really are a changed man.


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

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I have not commented on this thread, because as the cheatee your lack of remorse sickens me.

When I found out I had been replaced and he had been accidentally camped near her place I was vomiting from anxiety five times per day! I lost 12kg in 3-4 weeks and nearly 4 clothing sizes in less than 8 months. I thought I was going mad from the nightmares are dreams, I presented to the local hospital sobbing. They wanted to lock me in.

Vomitting For months! I did not sleep at all for 4 weeks.

He told me I was mentally ill, I was emtionally a dessert and he had to stay with ow. She was his happiness I was the cause of him almost committing sucide.

He also had no remorse or empathy. I am so emtionally injured I'm not sure I will ever be able to be with another man sexually ever again.

I think I would prefer to light myself on fire.


M 46 h54
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T 11y
Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads!
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Ugh, I wrote a long, thoughtful reply to GGrass, and the interwebs ate it. Ggrass, thank you so much for your raw honesty. I feel extreme empathy for your situation and I'm taking it in as a possibility for just how my Ex has felt over the last few months. She puts on a pretty, strong face on FaceBook, but I know she is a wreck. I DO wish there were something proactive I could do to alleviate her pain. I'm learning here, the only thing I can do is leave her alone.

Please just know that I feel endless remorse for my actions, endless regret for how much I've hurt the woman I love. I intended for her to be the mother of my children, and my addict mind told me I needed MORE to feel good about myself. It told me she wouldn't be hurt. It told me no one would ever know. That is what we hear in our heads, and we believe it.

Now, I am in the middle of re-entry back to reality. My little space capsule is burning up and coming apart. And as I come back down to earth, I become more aware day by day just how much pain and waste my little "dalliance" has caused. I see just how much she is hurting, just how grave my actions were, just how low I had brought myself, just how much respect I have lost from my friends and family.

The greatest amends I can make to my Ex is to do the work on myself, leave her alone, and make sure I NEVER repeat this with anyone else. I will most likely stay celibate for a long time until I feel truly complete on my own.

The "lack of remorse" you all have seen from me on this site is more a function of me thinking this was a community for "getting your Ex back" and not so much an "accept she's gone" forum. I see now that when you've done what I have done, you lose your right to ask for what you need. Your only right is to accept the consequences and learn from them. That doesn't make it any easier, and that doesn't remove my OWN pain over losing her.

Yes, I feel remorse and self-loathing for how much pain I have caused, but YES, I am also feeling the pain, panic, weight-loss, and sleeplessness or the loss myself. I get to hurt too. And the natural reaction to this pain is to want her back. I may not get to ask for that, but that doesn't make me stop wanting it.

I hope that makes some sense.


Me: 39 - W: 35
Together: 2 years, no kids
My Affair: 1.5 years
Affair ended: 4/9/14
Affair revealed: 5/19/14
Last Contact: 8/2/14
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 334
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DB -

This IS a site about getting back your Ex.

You'll note: there are many of us here who have been cheated upon. Like GGrass, I cried every day for MONTHS. I lost 25 lbs. in 6 weeks. I didn't sleep, couldn't eat, and was a mess; but I was still expected to get up every day and be a mom and brave the world. It was the hardest thing I have ever done and I've run 5 marathons, including one with a blister on my foot from mile 2 onwards.

All the while, my H was telling me that he had "found a new lid to his pot." I listened to him tell me that this co-worker who is 13 years our junior was a very special friend, and that she would be there for him if I ever got cancer. (SERIOUSLY - these are the fantasies these two created to rationalize their relationship.) He wanted to buy her a car, a computer, save her family vacation home. My mind was reeling with the absolute insanity of what he was explaining to me, and he simply would be flabbergasted that I didnt get it. We don't tell these stories to you to pile on the guilt, but rather to realize that your ex-fiancee is likely feeling VERY VERY battered and bruised. She should trust you again? WHY, exactly?

And the answer to that why lies within you.

Are you willing to work to become a man that she can trust again?
Are you willing to be patient with her?
Are you able to show remorse? To learn to communicate with your words and to control your actions?

You have work to do on you, and this is really necessary before you consider really trying to win her back.

So - the FIRST thing you should do is work on you. Detach from her. If she moves on, as you fear, well....that is a natural consequence of what you did.

If she doesn't, and time allows the two of you to reconnect...And for her to see that you are a changed man...And for you to allow her to be angry and fearful and confused before she forgives....

Well, then perhaps you have done the right work then on yourself.

Like Ggrass, I think I would rather light myself on fire rather than trust another man. Here I wait for my H to get through MLC....Hoping that this is better for our children. Hoping that he'll come around and realize the utter devastation that he has caused in his formerly very happy wife. I can't expect anything from him. I can only try to become happy again on my own. Only try to be a better and stronger person for myself. Will I ever trust again and know romantic love again? Time will tell.

Last edited by MLP; 07/30/14 08:03 PM.
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Thank you, MLP. I honor your story and everything you're going through. I have two good friends here in the Bay Area who have undergone similar betrayals with men who have not had ANY remorse and simply moved on with their OW. I know from their stories just how deep that rupture can be.

I'm trying to begin to look at this entire experience as an opportunity for me to FINALLY learn to be the man she (or anyone) could trust. To be the man who gets affirmation from WITHIN, rather than from anything bright, shiny, and new.

I'm 2.5 months out from D-Day. Not very long, yet an eternity. And I'm FINALLY at the point where I'm ready to ask, "What is the work I need to do?" rather than "How do I get her back?"

What does it look like? What is the "the work" I do tomorrow morning? Or tonight? Or in my interactions with my clients?

Right now, it looks like this:
- Zero Coping Behaviors (aside from Facebook and LOTS of calls to my support network), so no drugs, dating, sex, porn, masturbation, or shopping, and nothing more than social drinking.
- Daily Meditation and Rituals (15 min Vipassana and reciting a "Live Honorably" thing I wrote, dedicated to be ancestors)
- Therapy 2X weekly
- 12 Step (Alanon and SAA) as often as I can go
- Daily calls with my sponsors in each program
- Support to two female friends who have been betrayed and left by their partners

Are there other practices you all recommend? Daily readings? Special retreats? I'm going full-court-press on this. I will NEVER be happy if I don't dig this out at the root. I will NEVER honor the pain I have caused this woman if I don't do the work on myself.

Should I write a blog post about the affair and post it for all the world to see? Should I come clean and apologize publicly? Should I own it and provide some resource for other men who might be thinking of straying?

What else can I do?

Thank you,
DB


Me: 39 - W: 35
Together: 2 years, no kids
My Affair: 1.5 years
Affair ended: 4/9/14
Affair revealed: 5/19/14
Last Contact: 8/2/14
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