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Yeah, gay roommate! Lol.

I can only speak from my own experience. But first, I think Starsky gave the best example of this on another thread just today:

"You need to end your affair." <- Controlling.

"I will not live in an open M." <- Healthy boundary.

At first, I was trying to meet my H's needs as much as possible - to be his "friend" and to attract him back to me by being nice and sweet and validating. I was trying to placate a H who was actively cheating on me. I was trying to meet his needs while he was having his needs met by another woman. The ONLY thing that did was hurt ME.

Later, I decided to lovingly detach from my H, allowing OW to meet ALL his needs. I placed boundaries around my heart and family. And I focused on me and my changes. I was still friendly, for the most part, with H. But I didn't even talk to him enough to validate his feelings or give him the impression I would be his friend while he was betraying me in such a way.

Look, guys, here's the thing: if you hear your W make a complaint, and it's one that stings, then it's probably legit. So, sho, if you think you're too controlling, by ALL means work on that.

But don't confuse yourself there. You aren't being controlling by looking on marital property to establish if your W is having an A. That MATTERS. Not only to your emotional health but your physical health if you have ML (or if you're STILL ML, which I would not recommend. Obviously.). I'm not saying to snoop. I did. Until I found the proof I needed. And then I stopped because H had moved out, and snooping only hurt me.

It is not controlling to say, "I will not live in an open marriage," and then to take steps to make sure you AREN'T living in one if your W doesn't end her A.

It's also, I'll repeat, way too easy and convenient for a WW to call boundaries "controlling." And she'll do this so that you back off your more firm stance. I would strongly encourage you not to fall for it.

Does any of this make sense?

Starsky, can you clarify this better? It takes me two words to say what you say in one. wink

sho, what does "not being controlling" look like to you? Paint me a picture of that in words, can you?


M: 40 H: 44
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Originally Posted By: Train


It's also, I'll repeat, way too easy and convenient for a WW to call boundaries "controlling." And she'll do this so that you back off your more firm stance.



BINGO. It's her hole-card, and she knows it WORKS. Expect her to play it over and over and over again now.


The "things that DON'T sting" need to be IGNORED, as you press on with a strong stance. The "things that DO sting" you accept and deflect back, thusly: "I agree, that's something I've needed to work on. End your affair and come back and work on the marriage with me and I think you'll find me more than willing to address that, as well as my other contributions to our prior marital dysfunction."


You AGREE (if it's one that's true), but you bounce it right back, where it belongs. "Hey, I intend to work on that, and in fact I already am. I want to do that for ME, regardless, because it's the right thing to do. But I'm still not willing to live in an open marriage, or even discuss the marriage with you as long as you've unilaterally invited a 3rd person into it."


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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shodan Offline OP
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not being controlling...what does that mean?
- not getting angry or losing my temper
- not dictating what my wife does, where she goes, etc.
- not worrying about schedules, if my wife is late, etc.
- if my wife takes the kids somewhere, I just say "cool, have fun"
- if we were actually talking...just giving her a voice in our family, not criticizing her for decisions that she makes, giving her freedom to make bad decisions and mistakes


Me: 40, W: 40
M: 15, T: 18
D - 10, S - 7
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A discovered 7/20/2014 (but denied by W)
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Really just posting this here for others following along, as I get the distinct impression you don't want to hear any of this, Sho, but there was an old poster here named Jayne who gave the best description of "boundaries" vs. "controlling" that I think I've ever seen:


Jayne, on “boundaries”:

Think about boundaries like this:

Boundaries are not about controlling the other person, because boundaries are about drawing "circles" around *you* and determining what you will and won't allow inside that circle.

Your wife can do whatever she wants OUTSIDE that circle. You are not telling her what to do.

But you will only let into that circle people who treat you with respect.

She's free to go on treating you with disrespect, but you won't know about it because she'll be outside your circle. She's free to go on and draw her own boundaries of no expectations and no responsibilities, outside your circle.

She can do WHATEVER she wants. She's a free person, free to make WHATEVER choices she wants.

BUT SO ARE YOU, and you are free to choose who to allow within your circle.

That's all. Not about trying to control her at all. Tell her she's totally free. She has the WHOLE WORLD, outside your circle, to go and do whatever she wants.

If she's saying you have to let her into your circle no matter what, then THAT is about HER controlling YOU.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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shodan Offline OP
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Starsky

Thanks for this feedback. I know I am being dense. Only one week into this. smile

She knows that I don't approve of the A. Already said that to her Sunday about not living in an open M. Told her that I was committed to our M and our family but that she needed to end the A. As mentioned, she denied it. Said they were friends. Of course I know better.

So really all I can do is detach. Be a great dad. Be a great friend. Focus on me. Go to therapy. Read books on being a better husband.

Funny aside...I have read 30-40 books on martial arts (and watched countless youtube videos) but I never read a single book about being a better husband (or parent). I even read two books on how to train a dog. So I cannot be shocked that I am great at martial arts, can defend myself against multiple attackers, know how to break arms, joints, and choke people and have a dog that is "somewhat" trained but have a marriage where my wife is having A and wants a d. I truly recognize the irony in this. smile


Me: 40, W: 40
M: 15, T: 18
D - 10, S - 7
D announcement 6/7/2014
A discovered 7/20/2014 (but denied by W)
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Originally Posted By: shodan
Starsky

Thanks for this feedback. I know I am being dense. Only one week into this. smile



I know, and trust me, I am NOT trying to be a hardass here. This is going to take a long, concerted effort if you are going to be able to pull this off (and ultimately it will be mostly your wife's decision anyway, not yours) . . .and it IS very early in the process . . .

it's just that . . .

You only get ONE (ok, maybe two or three, but not many) "1st chances" at getting the TACK right. And I sense from you the past few days that after a couple of "YOU'RE SO CONTROLLING!" potshots from your wayward wife, you feel that it was a mistake to end your "Plan A" pursuit of her?

I could be wrong.

Her coming home seemed, to me anyway, to totally throw you for a loop, and throw you off your game. I think you need to get your mojo back.

Just my opinion.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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shodan Offline OP
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Mojo back, 10-4

kick me in the a%% whenever i need it


Me: 40, W: 40
M: 15, T: 18
D - 10, S - 7
D announcement 6/7/2014
A discovered 7/20/2014 (but denied by W)
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P.S.

You DO need to be reading up on self-improvement and even marital self-improvement books . . . but the marital ones are for future use, if and when your wife decides to end her affair and give you a 2nd shot at your marriage. NOT to be used to PURSUE her right now, or "show her that I've changed."

SUPPLICATION DOESN'T WORK in these things. She SAW the softer side of Sho for 6-7 weeks; now she needs to see that that man also has healthy limits and boundaries, and values himself enough to even possibly lose her over them if she doesn't end what she's doing.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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Originally Posted By: shodan


kick me in the a%% whenever i need it



Oh, I'm never shy about *that* cool


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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smile


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
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