My H moved out about a month ago. The separation came as a surprise in the sense that he had already made all of the arrangements before telling me, but I was aware that there were problems in the marriage. We've been in counseling for about six months, although we're currently on hiatus and we may switch counselors when (if?) we go back.
I was aware of DB/DR techniques prior to the separation and have been implementing them since he left, albeit with some lapses here and there. I have surprised myself (and my H, I think) with how well I've been doing. The DB response feels natural to me, not forced -- which is the exact opposite of how I'd pictured myself responding to a separation before this happened.
H's primary reason for separating is that he perceives a high amount of conflict in the relationship, which is making him anxious. H is extremely conflict avoidant and has been holding onto small grievances that have, over time, caused him to withdraw from me emotionally. I picked up on his withdrawal about 2 years ago. Initially, we tried to work on the marriage ourselves, but we started counseling about 6 months ago because things weren't getting any better on their own.
During an argument in Feb, he told me that he didn't want to be married to me anymore. He later claimed that he was just mad when he said that, but it triggered a deep insecurity in me and we entered a pursuer-distancer phase. He claimed that he was committed, but his actions didn't match his words so I pursued additional reassurances, which caused him to withdraw even more (as happens in a pursuer-distancer dynamic). Then our MC would tell him to stop sending me mixed signals, he would reaffirm his commitment, and we would start the cycle all over again. (I was aware of the 180 concept at the time but chose not to implement it because I felt it would backfire. H was claiming to be committed and making an effort; if I'd gone dark on him he would have viewed that as a rejection of his efforts.)
The other problem (and the one that, I think, immediately precipitated H's decision to separate) is that we had been trying, off and on, to have another baby for several years. Our mutual procrastination was a source of frustration for me in the relationship, and it was something that I wanted to sort out with him in counseling. In retrospect, this shouldn't have even been on the table, but at the time I thought that we were just going through a rough patch, that one of the reasons for the rough patch was my resentment over this issue, and that resolving it would help us improve our relationship. H would make promises and then back away from them. The baby issue became a proxy for how secure I judged the relationship to be. The conversations were causing H a tremendous amount of stress, but he didn't let on that it was so severe that he was thinking of leaving. The ironic part is that I had started to feel more secure in our relationship due to other improvements we'd made, that I would have been okay to postpone having another baby (or even talking about it) for a while, if I'd known how he really felt.
For the sake of clarity, conflict for us generally means long, drawn-out conversations. We don't tend to yell or call each other names, although that does happen occasionally (maybe once or twice a year).
So, the positives:
1. When H told me he was leaving, he said that he wanted to continue working on our relationship and this doesn't have to be the end of us. He does not want to D at this time and has asked me to keep all doors open, if I'm willing. 2. H says that he still loves me, he still cares about me, and he is still sexually attracted to me. I asked if he was still in love with me and he said that was the same thing. So, no ILYBINILWY. 3. There is no OW and he doesn't want us to date other people while we are S. 4. H is in a rental nearby and we have seen and talked to each other often since he left. He says that he is getting the space he needs and that he has missed me. 5. H is initiating small gestures of affection when we greet/part (hugs, kisses on the lips, ILY). 6. We've ML twice since the separation, with plans to continue doing so on at least a weekly basis. 7. We've both talked to attorneys (and I am one) but H does not want to do a legal separation because he thinks it would harm our chances at R in the future. We are currently sharing time with our D 50-50.
And, the negatives:
1. H is not actively working on the marriage right now, only himself. H is trying to meet me in the middle in terms of what I need, but I told him that I consider us to be in the "keeping doors open" phase until he decides that he wants to work on the M. 2. H acknowledges that he may never be ready to work on the M. This is, of course, the scariest part for me. 3. I am still initiating most of the contact, especially in terms of asking for "dates." I have struggled with this because one of the things that I had been working on in MC was to take the initiative (and to be comfortable taking the initiative) rather than impose unspoken expectations on my H to do so. We've discussed it since the separation and H says that he is fine with me continuing to ask, so long as it's okay if he says no. So far, he's only said no once, and he complimented me on how well I responded. 4. I am definitely getting mixed signals. H asked for a 6 month separation, but he signed a 12 month lease. I am also in a rental (which we previously shared). The lease ended this month. At first, H assumed that I would re-sign this lease for another year, but when I expressed reservations about doing so, H told me to just go month-to-month for now and we can re-evaluate our situation in another month. On the one hand, I like the idea of being able to re-evaluate where we stand on a monthly basis, but on the other hand, I feel like H hasn't put much thought into what an R would look like in terms of living arrangements, etc -- which makes me think that R is not really much of a priority for him.
My 180s:
1. Patience. I have to back off. I pressured him before the separation, and it didn't work. I have the gift of time, I shouldn't squander it. 2. Turning to family and friends instead of H for emotional support. When I want to pick up the phone and call H, I call someone else instead. 3. Get a life. We're somewhat new to this area and I don't have many friends here yet. I am getting out and meeting new people as well as reconnecting with old friends who happen to be in the same metro area.
I'm so glad you've already described some of the issues in your relationship; that will give people a strong foundation to start providing specific support to you.
After finding out about the marital issues, I like to start off by asking: Who was Elsa when your H fell in love with you?
That's important. Because we need to find her again.
I'm guessing you're on moderation right now (unless things have changed here). Just keep posting until you're taken off.
We've got your back here!!
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Welcome though I'm sorry you find yourself here. Your sitch sounds similar to mine in some ways so feel free to check out my thread. I thought my sitch was unique too and that I needed to modify DBing to fit it. Nope. The rules don't change and in my thread you'll see a few people hit me over the head with that fact. Learn from my mistakes. Hang in there. Breathe. We're here for you.
I'm not loving the fact that your h is handing out ILYs and kisses and stuff but he's saying he's not willing to work on the marriage. It's mixed signaling to me BUT you can only work on you right now. Do that. It's worth it.
Thanks, Cadet! I have seen that post before, but a reminder is always welcome.
Train, when I first met my H, I was smart, sexy, hard-working, ambitious, organized, and extroverted. I'm still smart, sexy, and hard-working, but the other qualities have receded as life has gotten in the way. For example, I left my "career" job when we moved two years ago, and since then I've been working part-time. I have good reasons for it, and I still make a sizeable contribution to our finances, but I think it's caused my H to lose some of his respect for me. I'm definitely doing a 180 here. Finding a new job isn't optional anymore because of the S, as I'm not self-supporting on my current income. I'm forging new friendships and reconnecting with old ones. I'm (slowly) getting my house in order. I will find the "old" me again.
ss06, I read your threads and I agree -- it sounds like we have a lot in common. My D7 also has behavior problems and I've been worried about how the S would affect her. To my great relief, she's coping very well, although it is HARD to be alone with her during a meltdown. I do still worry about the long-term implications, though.
I'm torn about the affection. I feel compelled to be patient and give him space, but without a minimal amount of appreciation or affection in return I feel like a doormat. I don't do well with limbo -- I'm an "in or out" kind of person, and I'm not ready to be out. I feel like the affection helps me keep my dignity during this process because I don't feel completely neglected. But, I understand that it may be more damaging in the long run.
Whether H is "trying" or not seems to depend on the day. When he dropped the bomb, he said that he wanted to continue working on our relationship. However, when we spoke again for the first time a few days later, he clarified that he is only working on himself right now and wants to take a break from working on the relationship until the end of the summer. Later that week in a MC session, however, he said that he might be ready to come back to MC in early to mid August. Last week he again said that his goal right now is himself and he isn't working on the M. Then we went to lunch yesterday and I made a reference to him possibly not ever feeling ready to try again, and he said, "This is trying," referring to our lunch, although he again said that his focus right now is on himself. So, yeah.
That paragraph makes it sound like we're talking about the M a lot. I didn't think so, but that's some food for thought.
Oops. I had a big lapse in judgment this am. H dropped off D7 this morning and she had a meltdown because I insisted that she wear a helmet while riding her scooter. I was so mad at H because (1) he didn't make her do it at his house (although he did say it was a good idea), and (2) he left me to deal with the meltdown while he went to work. I ended up calling him on the way to work, which I know he hates. I took it too far, and blamed her meltdown on the S. I told him that I wish he would acknowledge that she would be better off in one household with one set of rules. He replied that he thinks she just needs to be safe and comfortable, whether it's in one house or two. The conversation deteriorated from there, ending when I said, "I want you to act like a human being and show compassion for someone you claim to love and care about," and he said, "I have to go to work now, goodbye."
I know it was wrong. I shouldn't have called him, and after I did, I should have been more validating. It doesn't matter at this point whether or not he thinks it's best for her to be in one household or two, because we haven't made any permanent decisions. He is just going to view my disagreement as pressure.
So, what am I going to do differently? I'm not going to call him back. I will wait until he brings it up again and validate him then.
It's been over 24 hours and still no contact. On the one hand, I'm proud of myself for resisting the temptation to call him back, but on the other hand I'm getting anxious about the fact that he hasn't called me either. We will see each other briefly tonight. I wonder if he will bring it up.
Sounds like a good plan. I have no advice to give you as these sorts of situations confuse me, too. I never spoke up when I felt he was doing wrong when our marriage was in tact. Now that he wants it over I feel like I need to point out all of his faults all of the time but DBing makes me think that is wrong. I think the point is to find the balance. From what you described, it sounds so completely wrong of him. He gets to be the good guy, with anything goes, then you get stuck dealing with the meltdown. There has to be a better way to handle it then the way you did--dragging the S into an issue that should have just been focused on D, but letting it go and validating also seems wrong. I'm trying to figure all of this out right now as well, since I am working on boundaries--something I never could identify.
I think the goal is to stick to the issue at hand and leave your R out of it. The problem was that D wasn't wearing a helmet at H's home (in many states, including mine that is illegal depending on your D's age). This lack of consistency in the rules led to a tantrum that you had to deal with. If you are going to be coparenting together this needs to be worked out. I'm sure that neither of you want to set up a situation where she can play you two against each other and being a united front is the key. So how do you get there?
First, you have to take your emotional baggage out of it. He [censored] for doing what he is doing, but you don't have to point that out. You are going to have to accept that he is going to parent differently from you--this is true whether you are married or not. I think being caught up on one ideal way to parent is what causes a lot of strife in marriages--and even though consistency is extremely important, I also think that kids really do benefit from having two different parents with different parenting styles--as long as the parents can learn to balance their styles rather than fighting about it and getting caught up in a push/pull of trying to get their way. Learning to have each other's back in front of your child, even if you don't agree, is important. And discussions about it when the child is not around should be done in a way that doesn't make one parent feel like an idiot while the other is laying down the law.
It's a tough thing, this parenting business. Hard to do alone, and hard to do with someone else. Just try to stay focused on your goals with each conversation you have with him. Is your goal to make him feel like Sh? Or is it to make sure your D wears a helmet every time she rides a bike? Or is it to prevent meltdowns during transitions from one home to the other? I'm guessing in your last conversation all three of those goals were what motivated your words (trust me I have been there). I learned that it is best to bite my tongue when my emotions take over. Then with some distance I can identify what I want to accomplish with my conversation so that I stay focused on just the important issues that will get me closer to long term goals rather than those fleeting--"I want you to hurt like I'm hurting" goals.
40s 2teens M14Y BD-10/12/13 rec-1/14 BD2-5/14 rec2-9/14 EA disc-10/14 4/15-BD 3 and triangulation ensues Served with D6/15 MS forced to leave7/15 D agreement signed 8/16 final 5/17
Thanks, mustardseed. I think you're right -- the issue was about our D, not our R, and I shouldn't have brought the R into it. I will work on not bringing my own emotions into conversations about our D in the future because it just muddles things.
(Having had a chance to mull things over, in a way it might actually be a good thing that he doesn't want to work on us for D's sake. Whatever hope he has for us comes from his view of our R, which is actually somewhat comforting.)
At any rate, he called me this pm and I let the call go to vm. He left a message with a question about arrangements for our D tonight; no mention of yesterday's blow-up.
Sigh. Not calling back seems to have backfired, as he spent the past 2 days angry at me due to misinterpreting what I'd said. (He thought I was accusing him of not loving or caring about our D, when I was actually referring to myself.) We ended up having a brief talk last night. I asked him if he just wanted to be done, and he said he wanted to be done with the conflict, but not our R. However, he worries that he will not be able to end the conflict without ending our R, but it's not his preference. I thanked him for being open and apologized for lashing out. We had a good talk, I think. He said he would call me later today to discuss our plans for the weekend. I feel like I have more information that I need in order to proceed (i.e., I need to stop initiating conflict and back off when I am angry).
So, when you are mad at your WAS, what do you do? How do you get that anger out?
