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My wife began to pull away from me about 7 months ago. I pursued her and she said that she just needed space and time to sort out her feelings. I asked her on multiple occasions if there were someone else. Each time she denied it and gaslighted me. Then, 2 months ago she confessed that she had been having an affair. Her AP ended the affair 2 weeks prior to her confession. My waw also admitted to falling in love with him and out of love with me. (We have been married for 20 years, together for 30 and have 2 awesome kids, ages 13 and 20).

She did show remorse and a sincere desire to reconcile for about 3 days after the confession. She was afraid and hoped that we could save our relationship. I reacted as most would expect for someone who is shell shocked. I showed pain, anger and fear. Her stance on our marriage changed quickly and now she says "I dont see any way that our relationship could ever work". She was very unhappy for the past few years due to neglect and unmet expectations. She feels as though too much damage has been done and that I will never forgive her. She does not want to live under constant scrutiny and she feels like reconciliation would be moving backwards. She refuses to go backwards. She is going to individual counseling and he seems to be in the "do what makes you happy now" camp. No judgement, just stating what is.

Since her initial confession of the affair, I have learned that she brought him into our home on at least 2 occasions. What type of person can bring another man into her family home, have sex and then greet her family later that day like nothing happened? The images are chilling and This has really pushed me to my limits. I loved my wife but I do not love the woman who is here now. She has barely apologized to me and has actually made far more statements to hurt me than anything else. She regrets the affair because she chose a partner who was already involved with OW. (the reason HE ended the affair was because his ow, who is also married but separated, caught my waw leaving his house!) Here are a few more facts, sad but true:

Her AP is a spinning instructor. That is how they met. She still goes to the same spin studio but is not allowed to attend his class (part of his NC letter to her).

She goes out often without telling me anything. Stays out late, drinks too much, acts like a college kid on spring break.

I have been doing all of the wrong things. Pursuing, begging, snooping, fighting... I have tried to stop but I have only been able to hold out for a few days before something triggers these bad behaviors.

She is planning on moving out. I refuse to leave because she is the one who destroyed our marriage, she is the one who disrespected our home. She is the one who is not willing to commit to reconciliation.

Our 20 year old son knows about the affair. Our 13 year old does not. Also, her family and a few friends know about the affair.

The affair is supposedly over and her story is that she has had no contact with him for over 2 months. (I do not believe this is true but I have no way to confirm).

She says ILYBINILWY. Her sees me like a brother, not a spouse.

She still claims that she is in limbo. But her actions say that she has made up her mind to move forward. We had a family dinner planned last night at 8pm. She texted me at 8:15 saying that she was going out with a "friend" for a few drinks and would be home around 9pm. (which I knew was total BS). The kids and I ate without her. She came home at 10:30 and I asked her who the friend was. She gave me a female name. I asked her if there was anyone else and she snapped, "NO! I don't owe you any explanation, we are not a couple and I have not decided to work on this marriage". And off to bed she went.

Oh yeah, we have been sleeping in separate rooms for 6 months.

I would prefer that my marriage survive. My actions so far have achieved the exact opposite though. She has hurt me deeply and it makes me sick that I still have any desire to reconcile. It is like her body has been taken over by an alien, literally. I do not know who this woman is! Part of me wants to end the marriage today and move on with my life. I don't know if I could ever truly forgive her. I'm very conflicted.

Either way, I know that I need to stop pursuing her. I have ordered DR and it should be here today. I have read the 180 and the LRT, although I have not had the discipline to execute the steps. My waw has zero fear of losing me. In fact, all of her words and actions state that she is eager to get away from me. She has threatened moving out but has not left. Is my best option to simply follow the LRT to the letter and take it as it comes? My situation feels hopeless. I would appreciate any insights on whether or not I should continue to invest in this relationship.

My Hollywood script ending: She wakes up from this fog and shows sincere remorse and desire to reconcile. We agree to establish boundaries that apply to each of us. We get into MC. We communicate with respect. The love starts to return. The trust starts to return. We have hope instead of despair. Momentum builds in the right direction and we eventually put all of this behind us. I become a better husband and she returns to being a loving and trustworthy wife.

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Get the book, and go immediately to the After-the-Last-Resort Technique.

You need to lay some firm boundaries here, Onguard or I'm afraid your wife is just going to use your family home as her staging ground to pursue and OM2 (AP2). You need to protect you and your kids at this point.

I'm glad to hear that you refuse to move out. That should be a given but you'd be surprised.

I'm sorry, I know this s*ucks. I myself went through it back in 2007 (my wife was 47 and her affair was with her 29 year old personal trainer). Fortunately, we made it and are now happier than ever, by the grace of God and the good folks here in DBland. But it was one HELLUVA painful ride.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Two other quick questions:

1) Have you talked to an attorney yet?


2) What is your current financial arrangement with your wayward wife?


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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OG,

Don't know if you've read through any other threads yet. But while answering Starsky's questions, you may want to look up shodan's first thread, here in Infidelity.

He's new on this journey, too, and his thread has A TON of info that you should find valuable.

Most importantly, hang on to pretty much every word Starsky is telling you. He's an old pro, and his firm guidance helped shepherd my M back into the Land of the Living.

Sorry you're here, man.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
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Thanks for your fast reply Starsky. I have read many of your posts and I know you can help me. I have interviewed 2 attorneys so far and have 2 more I am waiting to hear from. The advice I have been given so far has been general. They told me not to try and move or hide any assets because it's impossible and it would not look good in court. Also some common sense instructions like don't be an ass.

Basically, I know where every dime is located and I have statements printed out as proof. I have cancelled her credit cards that were attached to mine. I have opened an individual savings and checking account and all future paychecks will be direct deposited into those accounts.

Here is a very recent update: She left her notebook on the desk in her office. I know I need to stop snooping but I could not resist. It was a type of rough journal where she listed the things she would miss about me and the things she would miss about her ap. I think it was her prep for the counseling. You can imagine that I did not fare too well on this comparison. I wouldn't expect to but seeing it on paper, in my wife's handwriting, was still like a dagger in the throat. She had 3 things listed for me. Financial security, comfort zone and family. (So really that is zero things about me). For him she had 7, including passion, excitement, trainer, shared interests.. How can you compare a 30 year relationship to a 6 month affair?


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
Living in same house, separate beds
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Thanks Train. I read through Shodan's posts. There is a lot of good info. It made me feel even more hopeless about my situation though. Bad side, my waw still has very strong attachment to her ap and virtually none to me. I have also not done what Shodan did with the DB for 6 weeks prior to learning of the A. In fact, I have done the opposite. Ugh. I know that pursuing, pressuring and showing anger are only pushing her away but I have not been able to stop. I am so deeply hurt by her A and the fact that she brought him into our home that I am not sure I can overcome it. On the good side, HE ended the affair and I do believe that it has stopped. But I don't trust my waw at all. She has told me so many lies, how can I possibly believe anything?

Last night I told her that I was going to move forward with ending the marriage since she has had 2 months to figure her feelings out and still is not ready to commit to the marriage. Her heart is still with her ap and I am not going to sit around while you wait to see if his other relationship fails so you can be back in his life. I told her that she should leave our house. At first she happily agreed but later called me to suggest that a trial separation while both staying in the home. She suggested that I could extend a business trip and stay away for a week or so. I told her that would not work for me and that she should leave. I let her know that I would prefer to work on our relationship and if she has a change of heart that she knows where to find me.

I think I need to just stay away from her for a while. I need to give her space to think on her own without being focused on defending my attacks. I realize, slowly I know, that I have been putting a lot of pressure on her and she just wants to escape from me. I am hoping that if I back off for a week with no contact that she will possibly start to soften a bit. I know now that I absolutely need her to come to me if we are going to make any progress at all.

Lastly, I need to continue to be the best dad I can be and GAL. The Stockdale paradox was helpful. I have to accept the brutal facts that the woman I loved for 30 years is gone. The life we had is gone and will never be the same. She does not love me now and may never love me again. This is ok and my life's purpose is bigger than my relationship with my spouse. I can be happy without her, or any other individual, in my life.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
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Originally Posted By: Onguard
She left her notebook on the desk in her office. I know I need to stop snooping but I could not resist. It was a type of rough journal where she listed the things she would miss about me and the things she would miss about her ap. I think it was her prep for the counseling. You can imagine that I did not fare too well on this comparison. I wouldn't expect to but seeing it on paper, in my wife's handwriting, was still like a dagger in the throat. She had 3 things listed for me. Financial security, comfort zone and family. (So really that is zero things about me). For him she had 7, including passion, excitement, trainer, shared interests.. How can you compare a 30 year relationship to a 6 month affair?


I'm sorry, OG -- I know that must really sting. My wife too left all kinds of handwritten notes and scribbles around -- journaling, "budgeting" (if you want to call it that -- she had her "Botox payments," but not any mention of things like, you know, "Utilities" or "Food") and it really is a kick in the gut. If it weren't so junior high'ish it might hurt even more. Please do know that it's entirely SCRIPT, however, and that your wife's brain is awash in endorphins right now (PEAs) that account for most of the euphoria she's feeling at the moment.

"Good deal" on the legal and financial moves you've made already; you are WAY ahead of most who land here, and sound like you have a good gameplan in place thus far.\

You CAN'T compare a 30-year marital relationship with a 6-month, intrigue-filled affair. At least not right now she can't. As more people find out about the affair, and she begins to see her OM in all his warts and glory, some of that will change. For right now, all you can do is protect yourself, protect your KIDS, and work on yourself.

More later . . .

Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Originally Posted By: Onguard


Lastly, I need to continue to be the best dad I can be and GAL. The Stockdale paradox was helpful. I have to accept the brutal facts that the woman I loved for 30 years is gone. The life we had is gone and will never be the same. She does not love me now and may never love me again. This is ok and my life's purpose is bigger than my relationship with my spouse. I can be happy without her, or any other individual, in my life.



There. Fixed it for you. smirk

OG, don't overdo this. Yes, your OLD marriage is dead and gone, but I'm sure you would BOTH admit that there were things about it that NEEDED burying. Many people do, however, successfully reconcile and put together a brand NEW marriage, that was even better than before. I did, and Train is well on her way too. There are many others.

And even post-D, about 20-25% remarry, nearly all reporting that the new marriage was FAR better than the original one.

You're not done here . . . not by a long shot. 5 DAYS before my wife came to be tearfully expressing her never-ending love for me and pleading with me to help her, she was telling her OM that "No one ever did it for me like you do" and saying ILYs.

It's a wild ride . . . get your spew jacket ready and hang on, brother.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Oh, do I have some things to add to THAT! My H was texting his OW from a bar at the beach ... on a family trip ... getting ME a beer ... ONE DAY before he started coming around!

Elbow-deep in marshmallows and fondant and icing right now. But I'll be taking myself a break here shortly and will be back to add ...


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
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Thanks for encouragement. Knowing that your was's feelings switched so dramatically does give me some hope. My waw has admitted that her feelings are changing daily and that she has no idea what she is doing or what she wants. Here is the latest development:

We had previously agreed that when the time was right we would both sit down with our 13D and let her know that mom and dad were having some disagreements... Well, my waw decided that today was the day and that I didn't need to be a part of it. When I got home she told me that she had spoken to our daughter and told her that "Mom is going to move to an apartment, you will have a room with me and keep your room here, we don't know if we are going to divorce (my daughter asked) but right now we need to be apart." So, I talked to my daughter alone after hearing this. As soon as I knocked on her bedroom door she threw her arms around me and started sobbing. Which turned me into a blubbering wreck. I held her and told her that it would be ok. That we were just having a rough time but everything will be ok. Then my waw went to spinning class.

Waw is evidently very angry over being told to leave the house. I could see it oozing out of her pores. So, she told our daughter and proclaimed to me that she has some places lined up to tour tomorrow. I said "I don't appreciate you telling our daughter and not following our agreement" to which she replied, "That's you, always judging me. You should not have told me to leave the house if you didnt want our daughter involved." I walked away and she left the house.

I am heading out of town tonight and will come back Friday afternoon. I will not contact her while I am gone. I really don't think separation is going to help our cause at all. But I meant what I said about not sitting around while she waits for the AP to change his mind. She needs to feel the consequences of her choices. So far, no consequences have been felt.

Lastly, I saw my counselor today. He is suggesting that I give her some space but do not encourage separation as that rarely helps. He thinks I need to just walk the walk and love her. Basically, act as if the affair was a wake up call for both of us. Consider it over and move forward with the confidence that your wife loves you and behave in a manner that helps her to fall back in love with you. Let go of the anger and just be the best that you can be. No judgements, no control, no insecurity. This is easier said than done...


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
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I'm going to defer to Train when she gets back, but I want to say... There is absolutely hope.

I'm so sorry for the way she treated your daughter. That was incredibly unkind. I'll keep you both in my prayers.


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
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I'm sorry she told your daughter without you, Onguard. That was unconscionable. I hope she didn't flat-out LIE to her, as kids -- more than ever -- need honesty thru these difficult situations.

Do you think your wife would agree to FULL TRANSPARENCY in exchange for not moving out of the house? I tend to both agree and disagree with your counselor; separations DO rarely lead to anything positive, but at the same time I think it's perfectly wise, healthy and necessary for you to insist that your marital home NOT be used to conduct another affair. If you had a good transparency plan in place, including at least one channel of intel that your wife did NOT know about ("trust, but verify") then I could see allowing her to stay there, for the sake of your daughter and so that she could continue to see your positive changes.

I would NOT expect remorse from her at this stage, or even commitment -- this is pure "compliance" at this point, for the sake of the family unit.

Do you think she would agree to that? Could YOU remain detached if she were still under your roof?


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Got my break now. wink

I'm behind Starsky on the compromise to keep W in the house, so I have nothing to add to that.

Circling back to the notion of losing hope because of what she wrote?

Don't let that deter you at all.

My H had told me, during our S, that he had written about "the past 10 years" and would give me what he wrote to help me understand his rationale ... and to see that he wasn't changing his mind and returning to the M. I told him I wasn't interested in reading anything he wrote while in the fog of an A; my logic told me - correctly - that there would be NO use in reading all that garbage. Because I knew that's all it was: garbage.

But guess what? I got my hands on that letter - as part of my "Operation Trust - but Verify" - AFTER H was home. It HURT to read, but mostly, it left me dumbfounded to know that the same man who had felt those feelings and written those words just two months earlier was asleep beside me in our marital bed.

I don't have to go into detail about the things he said. But rest assured, OG, that your W - in giving you ANY credit AT ALL - is miles ahead of where my H was when he left me. He didn't throw me a single bone!

And, yeah, I planned a beach trip with my kids and offered to let H come for the last couple days to spend time with the kids since I had taken away some of his days with them to be there. He was sending flirty texts to me on his way to the coast. And we spent an entire day with the kids on the beach and had a remarkable time. He even insisted on taking us out to dinner at a very nice restaurant. But while we waited, he went and grabbed us a beer at a nearby bar. And inside that bar (I would later discover, thanks to Operation Trust - but Verify), he texted OW. Since I had drawn a boundary with H before he joined us at the beach that there would be no texting OW in front of or around the kids and me at the beach, OW asked if he was alone. He told her he was with the family but had tucked into a bar. (She would often send replies like: "She's so mean." Lol.)

They chit-chatted for a few minutes and exchanged "I love yous." But the very next night, once we returned back to town from the beach, H began indicating he wanted to reconcile.

Sometimes, it happens THAT fast.

They are ALIENS, OG. Don't even try to get in that brain to figure her out. But absolutely do not allow the things she says or does make you lose faith that she will come around.

Now, about that in-home separation ...


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
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I dont think she lied to our daughter. I had a couple of talks with her and she didnt indicate anything out of the ordinary.

As far as full transparency goes, no chance on earth. In fact, she has stated virtually from day 1 that she refuses to live "like that". She will not be treated like she is in prison. This is one of many, many issues that leads me to believe that our marriage is doomed. But it all branches off from the fact that she is not in love with me and has no desire to be with me right now. She is going to do what she wants, when she wants and with whomever she wants without asking or explaining. She will not let me see her phone. She knows I have the password to her verizon wireless account, so I can see some numbers that she is texting or calling. But imessages don't show up (this is how she communicated with her AP without me knowing). She could have changed that password at any point but she has not for some reason. I also have the ability to see her credit card transactions.

Remaining detached would be great. But I am having a hard time detaching period. Being with her since I was 13 is making this extremely difficult. Like you said in one of your previous posts on another thread, it feels like a truck is parked on my chest. But seeing her definitely makes it harder. I still think she is the most beautiful woman on earth and it's killing me.

The latest update. I was out of town on for 2 days. I got home yesterday afternoon and could tell that she was angry, as usual. I opened an individual bank account and my paychecks are now being direct deposited into that account. She figured that out yesterday when my check didnt hit our joint account for the first time in our lives. She said I am acting like someone who is already divorced. She also said that "I almost signed a lease yesterday". I asked her why she didn't and she said "I was not 100% on the apartment and I wouldnt know what to do when I got to the credit app."

Then she mentioned what she refers to as a barrier to us ever being together. Sex. She said that she can not imagine how I could ever have sex with her again. She can't see herself being with me. I said, "I am not sure. Today I couldn't, but in 3 months or 6 months, who knows. It depends on what happens to our feelings between now and then." But for her, the way she feels now is exactly the way she will feel forever. According to her. She said that she wants me to go out and find someone. That it would level the playing field if I did. She is convinced that if we ever got back together that my mission would be to get revenge and SHE could never trust ME.

It is talks like this that really make me want to throw in the towel. She is just cant, cant, cant, cant... It's one of the things she did in our marriage that she denies. Constantly seeing the bad side of every situation and giving no effort to see the bright side.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
Living in same house, separate beds
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Onguard,

I feel for you, I really do. Especially can relate to the being together for so long and detaching being very difficult.

I'm no expert, but her comments about finding someone else and not being able to trust you if you got back together sure sound like guilt statements. Perhaps that means there's a part of her that's ashamed and knows this is wrong? That might be hope in itself, that some part of her is feeling it. If she was totally indifferent that'd be worse, I think. Again I'm no expert.


Me: 40 W: 40
22 Years together, 14 Married
D8 + D7
Aug 2012 - Separated
Sep / Oct - Back Together
May 2014 - WAW / Divorce Bomb / Separation
Jun/Jul - Suspected Other man / Confirmed
Now - WAW moving out
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She must not realize that I know where she keeps her journal because I found another new page. This one says that her emotions are constantly shifting. She is now leaning towards marriage counseling. She asks why her feelings toward me are returning and she wrote down: He is not making me angry on a daily basis. He is not badgering me. He is moving on with his life. But it also says that she could stay in the marriage with one foot and still look, so could my husband.. She still cannot think of any answers to "what did I love about my husband". We were together for 30 years, how on earth can she not remember what she loved about me? Everyone who knows us thinks we have a very good life. I know its the outside looking in but still. We went on 4 or 5 trips a year, which my waw says "dont count". It's the daily stuff that was absent. ?? We spent a lot of time on our boat as a family. We worked out together at least once a week. We walked the dog together every Sunday morning. We have tons of friends that we often did things with. I just don't understand how she can have no loving emotions towards me.

The other night she sent me a text. "If we both wanted to work on our marriage, to give it one final try, where would we even begin? Thats a big part of the problem, the how. It feels impossible doesnt it?" I responded "It's not impossible but it will take a full commitment from both of us. Let me know if you ever get to that point." No response after that...

She fully blames me for her affair. If I had been more attentive then she would not have done this. What a bunch of bs. Our marriage had problems and I contributed to those problems. But I was always willing to do whatever it took to make our relationship better.

It looks like my efforts to detach and GAL are starting to have a tiny effect. I am heading out of town for 5 days and I am determined not to contact her. If she contacts me then I will respond with upbeat and brief answers. My feelings are shifting as well though. I have been taking stock of everything that she has done and said and I wonder how on earth will I ever be able to trust her again. I have been going out with friends and getting attention from other women which is helping me to realize that life without my waw might not be the hell that I am fearing. I took my kids out to dinner last night while waw went out on her own. Don't get me wrong, the idea of splitting our family and moving on without her are still very painful but I am wondering if maybe the fear of losing her is worse than actually losing her?


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
Living in same house, separate beds
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 58
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I have been gone for 5 days and the only contact I had was to let her know what flight I was on today. When I got home we just said hello and not much more. My 20 year old son was with her all day Sunday and all day today. He told me that my efforts to stop pursuing her are paying off. He told me that she is noticing that I am acting very different and that I am moving on with my life. But it sure doesn't look like it to me. She is acting completely indifferent towards me and shows no signs of weakness.

I think my waw is just staying in limbo until either her AP comes back or she finds a new AP. I really want to save my M but each day that goes by it seems like we grow farther apart. I was hoping to see some glimmer of love from her after nc for 5 days but nothing. She was ice cold and showed zero interest. I am working on GAL. I have stopped pursuing her. I don't tell her I love her. Basically, I am trying to follow the 180 to the letter. It just doesnt feel like its working. I know I need to be patient but its so hard when there is OM in the picture, potentially. Each day feels like a ticking time bomb.

What other options do I have? If I want to save my M then I need to let go of my urge to control her. I need to focus on becoming a H only a fool would leave. If that's not enough then there is not much more I can do..


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
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Baby steps, OG. Babyyyyyyy steps. This is a *marathon*. Not a sprint.

She is now leaning towards marriage counseling. She asks why her feelings toward me are returning and she wrote down: He is not making me angry on a daily basis. He is not badgering me. He is moving on with his life.
Pay attention to this. She's telling you (okay, okay, her *journal*, but still ...) what she's finding attractive about the new OG. Those are the things that are making her THINK about staying in your M. So keep.doing.them. That simple.

But it also says that she could stay in the marriage with one foot and still look, so could my husband.. She still cannot think of any answers to "what did I love about my husband". We were together for 30 years, how on earth can she not remember what she loved about me?
Rewriting of marital history ... AND her opinion is clouded because there was apparently a duration of time when you weren't meeting her needs and/or being the man with whom she fell in love. Just be HIM again.

I have been gone for 5 days and the only contact I had was to let her know what flight I was on today. When I got home we just said hello and not much more.
Don't put too much stock in this.

I'm a woman. And if I had cheated and felt entitled to have cheated because my H wasn't meeting my needs - and if I wanted my H to believe my cheating was all because of HIM because I'm feeling entitled and slighted - and if my H appeared to be moving on with his life and wasn't falling at my feet, begging me to stick around - I'd probably pout, too. OTOH, if I had cheated and my H pursued me constantly and begged and pleaded and called me every day he was out of town, I'd probably view him as pathetic. As a man, I think I'd rather my W pout because I'm being strong and resolute than look at me like I'm desperate and pathetic.

Don't get all sappy on us, OG. And don't be losing hope just because this thing isn't moving at the pace you wish it would.

I'm seeing some positives in your sitch. I think you see them, too. They might not be BIG changes. But look at the progress that's been made!

If I want to save my M then I need to let go of my urge to control her. I need to focus on becoming a H only a fool would leave.
Yep. You got it! And I think you're doing great! smile


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
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Thanks Train. I appreciate your words of encouragement. I will get through this. The hardest part is patience, the second hardest part is acting positive and happy. MWD comments about people trying to save a M in my situation are right on the mark. "It will be the hardest thing you have ever done in your life".


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
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Hi OP just wanted to wish u luck brother...i am almost in the same boat as u..had begged cried and pleaded toher...the only thing i havent done is left her alone or the 180 which is the only thing left for me. Try to be strong man, i know it aint, almost unbearable losing ur woman.
Good luck bro

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The last 3 days have given me some hope. We went boating with our kids on Saturday and had a good time. Not much interaction on the boat but we were friendly. She opened a beer and handed it to me when she saw mine was empty, something she rarely ever did. We listened to music and went swimming. Each of us talked quite a bit with our kids but not much to each other.

When we got home I was grilling dinner and she came out back with a glass of wine for each of us. We sat and I started asking her if she had a good time on the boat. Then I gently steered the conversation to her feelings for me. She said that she is confused about what to do. She doesnt want to get hurt again and so she is not able to commit to our M right now. I just listened and did not argue or try to convince her. She started talking about things I used to do (or not do) that hurt her and made her feel neglected. I apologized and said I was very wrong to hurt her like that. She started crying. This happened a few times over the course of an hour long talk. No anger, no hostility, just communication.

On Sunday we had another talk like that. At one point she abruptly left the house to go talk to her mom. I cooked dinner again for us and we spent a nice evening talking. After dinner she sat on the couch virtually next to me. Its a big couch and she could have sat 6 feet away if she wanted to. This has not happened in a long time. Tonight we took our D13 to dinner. We came home and again she sat next to me on the couch. I told her she looked beautiful tonight. She said thank you but I dont believe you. Then I told her that I missed loving her. She smiled but had no comments. I started touching her arm and she reacted like it felt good. So I then moved to massaging her back and shoulders. She clearly was liking the affection, and this went on for over 20 min. She then said "that felt so good, I owe you big time". I said nothing, I kissed her hand and then I went up to bed. I have no clue if this is actually a good sign or if I am grasping for straws but it felt so good to touch her again. This was the first real stretch of time where we could interact without getting angry or talking about the affair. I am going to put this down as progress. Plus I am proud of the way I initiated the end of the night. I am going out of town tomorrow for 3 days and it feels like I am leaving on a positive note.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
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I returned home after 3 days away. When I am gone I do not text or call her first and I am very brief with my responses. But when I am home I am trying to show her the best man I can be. I don't plan dates but this backfired on me a bit yesterday. The moment I walked in the door she had her bag packed and a cooler ready to go. I asked her what was up and she said that she was going to our friends lake-house with the girls for the night. I was a little disappointed and she asked me if that bothered me. I said no, but I was looking forward to spending some time together. She said that if I wanted to do that I should have told her and planned something.

We talked for a little while before she left and she said that she thinks we need to try dating each other. I said that I didnt think that would work for me until she is ready to commit to the M. She also said that she wonders if we should try to get through the rest of the year and give us "one last chance" to see if her feelings for me return. All of these things sound like progress but it could also be a trap. Some questions:

Is she just trying to stay in limbo and keep me as plan B?

Should I continue with my distant but interested "plan A" approach or should I do as Starsky had suggested and go to LRT or ALRT?

She says that she has had no contact with OM and is trying to get over the affair each day. However, she has not agreed to commit to the M.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
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My waw made another journal entry yesterday. She is trying to "give up hope for her AP" and get him out of her mind. She is "grieving the loss" and is dealing with depression. (I had a foolish notion that she might have been depressed about our M and family) She also says that her gut instincts are to pull away from me and she has no desire to kiss. She said that she wishes her feelings were different but they are what they are.

She did write that if I were to close the door to reconciliation and / or meet someone new that she would be devastated and it would be almost guaranteed that she would want me back. But then followed it with: "Should I move on before he does or should I continue to wait it out?"

Yesterday she texted me and suggested that we pull a last minute trip to Chicago for the weekend. She has been saying that she thinks that maybe dating like we had just met and staying away from serious talks for a while might help her to find her feelings for me again. I don't think I should go. I think that it is time to show her that I will not be here forever while she tries to find her answer. If she is not willing to commit to the M then she needs to feel the consequences of her choice. My situation is very similar to Shodan's. I have been trying to be the kind, gentle husband and do my best to make positive memories when we are together. When I am gone I am very quiet and try not to pursue her at all. But this does not seem to be working. Probably because she is still pining for the OM.

A big part of me wishes that I could just turn off all of my feelings for her. I wish that I could just protect myself, my kids and move on with my life. Some things that are really bothering me: Her AP ended the affair. She would have chosen him over me and I believe that this is still the case. She brought him into our home, full of family memories and pictures. (This shows how little she thinks of me and our life together). Her journal entries show no remorse for the pain she has caused me and our family. Her feelings for me are gone at the moment, possibly forever.

I feel as though it is time for me to follow Starsky's original advice and implement the ALRT. Starsky, if you have a second I would love to hear your thoughts on my sitch..

Thanks.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
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Onguard,

I'm in a bit of a rush and would have to go back and re-read what stage you are at with your wife, but I would draw the line at NO-CONTACT/TRANSPARENCY, and not at FEELINGS.

Her FEELINGS for you, after she ends all contact with OM, will take -- I hate to say it -- anywhere from 6 mos. to 2 years to FULLY return. She'll get over the "pining" (hard withdrawal) after just a few weeks, but it's going to be a long slog of you two working together at the marriage for her feelings for you to fully return. It will be full of fits and starts, and some of it will be very good.

But that's all IF and WHEN she agrees to end all contact with her OM. Has she agreed to do that, and to be fully transparent with you? If she DOES agree, then I think you're being unfair to expect her feelings for you to return so soon. If she DOESN'T agree, then I wouldn't be vacationing with her until she fully commits that OM is gone.

Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Thanks Starsky. She has agreed to NC and I believe that she has not been in touch with him at all. However, she is not transparent with her phone or email. Also, she has written in her journal that she is trying to stop "hoping for her ap" and to get him out of her mind. The A has supposedly been over for 3 and a half months. However, She will not commit to the M. She is willing to try and start over and basically date each other to see if that helps her feelings to return. She wants all serious talk to stop and to put the A and our previous bad M in the past. This all sounds great in theory but real life execution is going to be much harder.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
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Was transparency agreed to (but she's just not living up to it), did she specifically say NO to it, or was it never discussed at all?


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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She said no. Although, the other day I caught her going through my phone. Nothing better than a hypocrite. She said that she does not want to live under constant scrutiny. In addition, she is very consistent with deleting texts and emails. I have the password to her vz wireless account but imessages will not leave a trail. So I can only see numbers she is texting or calling. Also, I would not rule out that she may have a second phone hidden somewhere. Being cheated on and lied to so much has made me question my own name at this point. I also think that if the OM contacted her that she would start the affair back up or worse, flat out leave me for him. Thanks for your help Starsky. I'm going to try and make it a good weekend and I wish you the same!


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
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OG

Your sitch sounds very similar to mine but in a better spot honestly. I see a ton of positive here. She is not in an A and your interactions with her are improving. My interactions with my W have been far better, but she is still deep in the fog of the A. I feel like my W and I are back to where we were in June when she asked for the D. She is now distant, somewhat rude to me and just a complete alien to me. I would keep doing what you are doing because it seems to be working.


Me: 40, W: 40
M: 15, T: 18
D - 10, S - 7
D announcement 6/7/2014
A discovered 7/20/2014 (but denied by W)
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Thanks Shodan. It's interesting that I find your sitch better than mine. My W is trying to come out of the fog and she is also a total alien. I asked her today, "Where in the world did you go?" It also sounds like your doing a much better job of execution than I am. i know what to do but doing it is another story. Have fun, be light, be upbeat, no serious talk, no pressure. But tonight for example, we went to dinner. Just the two of us. I don't have much to say to her so we had a lot of silence. The conversation feels forced. We talked about the kids, the weather, our plans for this weekend. A number of times things got awkward. She mentioned getting a gun and I joked that I would need to buy one too if that were the case. She said that she would be getting it if she lived alone.... Then she talked about her new single friend who is dating a very wealthy guy who is 25 years older than her... Then she said she saw a gorgeous woman at her gym this morning and that I should "look her up". The whole time I was just staying quiet and not get sucked into serious talk. Finally I had to say something and her response was "We are not supposed to be having any serious talks." It's like a skit from SNL.

Her moods are shifting quite a bit lately too. Earlier this week she was depressed and crying a lot. But today she had a serious chip on her shoulder about me and my need to have serious talks. She said, either live with what I can give you right now or don't, I really don't care. It's statements like that, that really make me question my sanity for sticking around. Part of me wants to let go and move on. She knows how much I love her and she is using it against me. I wish I had the strength to remove myself from the equation. Maybe one day...


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
Living in same house, separate beds
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My W suggested a last minute trip to Chicago to see Luke Bryan and do some shopping with our D13. I had plans with some friends on Sunday and did not want to cancel on them at the last minute so I told her that I could not go. Instead, our family and her parents went to a baseball game on Monday. I noticed that she was not wearing her wedding ring but did not say anything until we got home. That is when she made it clear that she was furious with me for not taking advantage of the chance for us to do something that she wanted to do. She said "I served this up to you on a silver platter. You might have been able to save your marriage but you dragged your feet again." These were the types of things that have happened in the past that made her feel neglected and not "heard" in our M. It is something she wanted to do but we did not do it. If it were something I wanted to do then we would have done it. (This is her opinion).If we were in the process of working on our M, I would have cancelled my plans and done the Chicago trip. But she has clearly stated that she is not able to commit to our M and doesn't know if she ever will.

On one hand, I agree with her that I had an opportunity to show her a positive change and I failed to do that. But canceling my plans at the last minute to cater to her would be pursuing. I told her that if we were trying to make it work then I would have gone to Chicago. She said, too little too late. She is now back to talking about Separation and D. So, like Shodan, I feel like my actions are pushing her farther away. I am trying to trust the process, like him, but I am afraid that I blew an opportunity. Any thoughts?


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
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I'm not up to date on your sitch, but if you say she's not willing to commit to working on the M right now, I highly doubt you going to Chicago with her was going to 'save your marriage' as she claims. Sounds like now she's just trying to justify her decision(s).



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OG,

Your wife doesn't sound like she's "there" yet, to be honest. The lack of transparency, the playing "gotcha" with the last-minute trip-to-Chicago test . . . this doesn't sound like a woman who's sincere about working at her marriage.

I think you handled it well -- differentiating and saying "this IS something I would have done, IF we were working on the marriage."


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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Thanks Starsky and Tarheel. Today has been tough. My w says that it has been a while since she felt in love with me. Longer than a year. She wishes things were different and that she does not want to hurt me. According to her, her IC said "Your husband took your feelings from you, little by little, with years of neglect." She blames me for her affair and for the fact that she got hurt when it ended. She says that she does not miss us like I do. She thinks the only chance we have is to separate. We tried to go on a few dates over the past week and things were awkward much of the time. No touching and lots of dead air silence.

I am trying to follow the rules. "Believe none of what she says and 50% of what she does." I know waw's will re-write marriage history but she is making it seem totally genuine. I knew that we were in a rut towards the end but I had no clue she was this unhappy. My sitch feels totally hopeless right now and I needed to vent. I still love her but she is long gone. At least for now.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
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As long as she is going solely by her FEELINGS, you're going to have a tough row to hoe, OG. Because she has it precisely BACKWARDS: it will take her DECISION (commitment) to work on the marriage with you, and BOTH of you to make positive changes and do the hard work, for her FEELINGS for you to return.

And that could take anywhere from 6 months to 2 years, on average.

Wayward women often compare how their OM makes them "feel" to how their husband makes them feel, and then make a major life decision based on that. Romantic feelings are important to happiness in a marriage, but they ebb and flow over the years, and such feelings should not be the FOUNDATION of a healthy marriage. (Things like respect, shared values & interests, shared family history, etc. should be).

A good IC should tell her that; it sounds like she has a crappy one who is helping her justify her waywardness and running from her family.


Starsky

Last edited by Starsky309; 09/02/14 09:51 PM.

M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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I agree with Starsky. That sounds like a horrible IC. What a moron.


M 16 T 17
W moved in w/ AP (OW) 5/14
ILYBNIL 5/14
A discovered 6/14
D papers served via USPS 8/14
Filed my response 9/14
D final 5/15...
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Things are not going well recently. My waw has been really moody. On Friday she went to the beach with a friend during the day and got drunk. She texted me and asked me if I wanted to bring our D13 and meet up with this other couple for dinner. I agreed. But when we got there it had turned into a much bigger deal. 5 families meeting up and all of them know about our situation because my W has been telling people over the past couple of months. This was going to be the first time we were all together as a group since the news about her A got out and I was a little uncomfortable. I did my best to act as if during the night. My w and I sat across from each other but barely spoke. We didn't say a word to each other on the drive home either. I spent the day Saturday with my S20 at his school, it was Dad's day for his Frat and we had a great time. No communication with my w at all on Sat. Then yesterday, almost no communication either. So, this am, before work, I caved in and started a talk with her about why she was treating me so cold lately. Her response, "Our marriage is over, we are both miserable living like this and denying reality. We have tried dating each other and it is not working for either of us. We just need to accept what is and either separate or divorce." She says that she has changed and will never be the person that I knew. She reiterated that she was totally unhappy in our marriage, she should have ended it years ago and that she cannot go back. I agreed with her on all counts and said that our old marriage is dead. I also said that we have an opportunity to start a new relationship if we are both willing to contribute to it.

She is talking about separation. My stand is that I am not leaving the home. I told her that if she wants to separate then she will be the one leaving. The issue I have is that I travel for my job quite often, so our D13 would have to basically leave with her. She is using this to make me feel guilty as well. But she is the one who betrayed our M. She was not thinking about our D13 when she decided to have an A and invited her AP into our home to have sex. She is the one who wants to live under a different roof. Why should I leave?

My lawyer has also advised me not to leave the home. She said that it would only make things easier on my waw and that is the last thing I want to do.

The stress is really starting to get to me. It is affecting my ability to focus at work and my energy level has been lower lately. Maybe the reality is sinking in that I am going to lose my M and be a single man at the age of 44. This is not what I want. I want to get my marriage back. I believe that my best chance of that is with us both under the same roof. I need to detach, GAL and show her the best possible man, husband and father I can be. I need to stay away from talking about our relationship and just focus on my career, my kids and myself.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
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Originally Posted By: Onguard


She is talking about separation. My stand is that I am not leaving the home. I told her that if she wants to separate then she will be the one leaving. The issue I have is that I travel for my job quite often, so our D13 would have to basically leave with her. She is using this to make me feel guilty as well. But she is the one who betrayed our M. She was not thinking about our D13 when she decided to have an A and invited her AP into our home to have sex. She is the one who wants to live under a different roof. Why should I leave?

My lawyer has also advised me not to leave the home.


Your position is not only correct, but reasonable. Stick to it.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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Dont give up Onguard . I will chime in later Dawgy


Me 45 W 45
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Onguard I would agree with the lawyer . Do not leave your home and try to get custody of your D13 . What your wife has done is despicable . Bringing in a man to your home to have sex ? If she wants to separate let her go . D13 is the issue for you here for sure , but she is still her mother . However what does D13 know about your sitch ??


Me 45 W 45
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Thanks guys. My D13 only knows that we are having serious problems and we may need to live apart for a while. Even though I want to save my M, a big part of me is ashamed that I feel this way. My waw has not only been unfaithful but she has done it in our own home on 2 occassions. She has shown almost zero remorse and currently has no desire to R. Yet I am still hoping to save my M.

My ego has really taken a beating. If there is any hope for our M then I need to set my pride on the shelf and focus on what needs to be done now. I need to reconnect with her emotionally. I need to follow the 180. No pressure, no talks of R, show her the best I can be. Train had some very good advice to Shodan the other day about that. It is about keeping my eye on the prize and not showing my anger or insecurities.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
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Nor any pursuit.

It's a fine-lined dance to dance, for sure.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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OG,

Still here and still reading your posts. I'm glad you're reading sho's threads; you two remind me of one another ... a lot.

Just wanted to drop by and offer you a pat on the back ... and to let you know I'm reading and thinking of you.


M: 40 H: 44
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So is your wife currently having an A ?? If it has ended that is a positive . The things shes done to you and you family is despicable for sure but I guess we must remember PEA s . The brain chemicals , the irrational thoughts and decisions that come along with having an affair . Having a man into your home is the lowest of the lowest however it does speak volumes about the irrational thoughts and decisions she has and is making . Im not making an excuse for her but it does give you some insight on how a once loving wife could turn so cold and un feeling . And remember that is exactly what it is " feelings " not logic . If she was thinking logical none of this would ever have happened Dawgy


Me 45 W 45
Son 16 Son 14
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W threatened sep several times
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Thanks for the comments. The A has ended and w says that she has had no contact in over 3 months. However, the OM is the one who ended it and she is missing him badly. Her actions over the past 8 months have been horrible. They are clearly the actions of a person who had totally checked out of the M and was moving on. Now I have a small chance to save my M. My emotions are telling me to save it but my logic is telling me to move on without her. And since I am here I guess you know which side is winning.

Detaching has been a serious challenge for me as well. We have been together for over 30 years, since the age of 13. It still does not seem real. I wake up every morning and think, is this really happening? Yes it is.

The other big challenge I have is my fear that either the OM will change his mind about her or that she will find an OM2. I know that I cannot control her and I need to focus on myself, On my process and on being the best I can be at all times. Trust the process, work the process, execute.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
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Last night I was going to cook dinner for myself and my D13. I asked my w if she was planning on being home for dinner. She said yes and I told her that I was going to cook. We ate dinner together and she asked me about my grandmother who is not in good health. I kept my answers brief and was pleasant. I did not initiate any other talks. Would any part of this be considered pursuing?


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
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Onguard i hear you loud and clear bud . My wife and i have been together almost 27 years and its been heart breaking . She was so kind when I found out about the A and for weeks and months later she was supportive and kind and said we would get through this . I repeatedly tried to tell her to stop seeing OM because her feelings would get stronger if she didnt . She wanted me to trust her and she would end things , she just needed time . Here we are months later , she s thinks shes in love with him and she despises me . Her brain is in another world . Anyone that would jeopordize the well being of their own offspring for their own selfish needs obviously is not in their right mind ,


Me 45 W 45
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Originally Posted By: Onguard
Last night I was going to cook dinner for myself and my D13. I asked my w if she was planning on being home for dinner. She said yes and I told her that I was going to cook. We ate dinner together and she asked me about my grandmother who is not in good health. I kept my answers brief and was pleasant. I did not initiate any other talks. Would any part of this be considered pursuing?


No. Ya done good. whistle


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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Originally Posted By: dawgy
Onguard i hear you loud and clear bud . My wife and i have been together almost 27 years and its been heart breaking . She was so kind when I found out about the A and for weeks and months later she was supportive and kind and said we would get through this . I repeatedly tried to tell her to stop seeing OM because her feelings would get stronger if she didnt . She wanted me to trust her and she would end things , she just needed time . Here we are months later , she s thinks shes in love with him and she despises me . Her brain is in another world .



This is why I'm such an absolute NAZI about no-contact and transparency. Even if a spouse is willing to end all contact and work on the marriage, it doesn't mean they are always able to. Affairs are HIGHLY addictive, and any re-contact with their OM/OW re-starts their withdrawal "clock" to 0:00.

A solid transparency plan is the glue that helps hold together the formerly wayward spouse's good intentions about no-contact.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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The last few days have been full of detaching. We have had very little interaction. I played golf all day yesterday and she spent all day today with her family. Our last discussion was on Friday when she told me that she had a plan of action. If there was no improvement in us by the end of the month, she thinks we should separate. She would prefer that I leave. I reiterated my position that I am not leaving the home. She tried to use our D13 as leverage, saying that she would be hurt if my W were the one to leave. I responded by asking her if she was thinking of our D13 when she was having an A or suggesting separation in general. Separation is a trial run for D, not a step in the process of R. She claims that her goal of separation would be to ultimately save our M. I will not attempt to convince her to stay but I will not be leaving either.

Next week is her birthday. How should I handle this? I was planning on basically keeping the whole thing family oriented. No card or gift from me. Just being a part of the festivities with the family. Being upbeat and acting as if. The other issue is that we are supposed to be going to dinner with 3 other couples on Friday night. They all know about our sitch. It feels really uncomfortable to be out in public with people under these circumstances. I feel like they are all wondering why I am still with her. Mind reading I know... It just feels like I am losing respect from everyone because I am still trying to save my M with a W who has been unfaithful AND has not committed to our M.

Should I stop doing things as a couple until / unless she commits? She does not seem to want me to be a part of her birthday either. She is being very quiet other than mentioning it a few times. I asked her if she still wanted to go to a football game for her birthday and she said she was not sure. I did not say a word after that as I don't want to pursue but I also don't want to be cold. Man, this is a fine line to dance indeed.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
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This past weekend was my wife's birthday. We had plans the night before her birthday to have dinner with a few couples but she cancelled because things are too awkward. Basically, all of our good friends know about the sitch because she told her girlfriends. The fact that everyone knows our business definitely makes things harder. So, we went to dinner on our own to try and salvage the night. Again, the time spent together was tense. I stayed away from any talk about our sitch or R but there were still periods of uncomfortable silence. And of course there was no romance.

For her birthday I took her and her whole family to a football game. This is where things got very unpleasant for me. We went early to tailgate and she and her mom started drinking. My MIL began to point out every guy she saw who was good looking. And she was not being subtle at all. At first I just laughed it off as the girls having fun. But after about 5 incidents it stopped being amusing. She took my wife over to a large camper where some guys were standing on the roof and told them that they had to let my wife come up there since it was her birthday. Well, the guys were more than happy to have her come up of course. My MIL even made a statement to my wife that one of the guys was really hot. And this continued all day. I did not say a word and I tried to act like everything was fine but inside I was stunned and hurt. They were acting like 2 single women on spring break. It was extremely disrespectful to me considering our situation.

The next day my wife remarked that I didn't appear to be having fun at the game. I told her that I enjoyed the day but that her conduct with her mom made me very uncomfortable. My wife got defensive and hostile. She accused me of ruining her birthday by casting a dark cloud over the day. I stood my ground and told her that anyone in my shoes would have felt the same way. If roles had been reversed and I was flirting with a bunch of women in front of her she would have lost her mind and probably gone home early. I also concluded that in my mind we are still married But to her, obviously, we are no longer together except for the legal agreement.

Im not sure if I did the right thing by speaking out about her behavior but I will no longer be a doormat. She is free to act in any way she chooses but not as my wife. I don't want a D but it looks more and more like that is the direction we are heading. She does not respect me or love me. It seems like the nicer I am the worse her behavior towards me. Each day it feels like the distance between us is growing. I know i need to detach, GAL, be strong, confident, happy with how things are, know that I will be ok no matter what happens to us. I cannot control her feelings or actions. I must take control over my own attitude and actions in order to move forward.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
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I would've given them cab money to get home, and left their inappropriate azzes at the tailgate. But that's just me.

You're certainly right that "nicing" her back towards you isn't working. Supplication rarely works. Why are you even still taking her out for her birthday if she doesn't perceive you to be a couple?


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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Thanks for the comments Starsky. My dad said the same thing you did! And, That is a great question. I had an offer to go out of town for the weekend and all of my supporters advised me to go. But I thought that leaving on her birthday would be a di*k move. So, l stayed and thought that maybe we could have a good day as a family. I could show her that I could have fun, be light, confident and attractive. Instead, what I faced was basically being ignored while she and my MIL partied like single college women.

I am trying to face the reality that my wife no longer wants anything to do with me. She has no regard for my feelings. When I told her yesterday how much her behavior upset me, she said that she "was happy that it hurt me and that I deserved it for all of the times that I would talk to other women in front of her." She was referring to employees of our's at a company holiday party that happened 10 years ago.

She has shown no remorse for her affair. She has admitted to still having a desire to be with her ap. There are so many signs that she is totally checked out. I am done being a doormat. In this game, nice guys really do finish last.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
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Onguard,

First, I'm very sorry you are here in this situation (although this is the place to be for just this type of ordeal).

I am amazed you have been together since you were both 13! Have either of you dated other people before you got married?

I do understand why you went to the game, and she HAD mentioned her birthday in a way that would have confused me as well.

However, once the behavior of her mother and she became weird (I would criticize it more but it mostly struck me as very odd behavior. WTH is HER own mother doing, acting like that? Is SHE having a MLC or what? Are her parents married?)

Where were your children during all this? Also, your comment about how much harder it is for you, when a lot of others know, is a good one. Frequently people think exposing the A can get a spouse home faster but I often think, "what about the LBS?" B/c it's not just harder for the WAS to return when others know, it's harder to take them back.

Try not to let that make your decision for you b/c that is just pride.

But there are other factors to process, in favor of reconciling AND against.

Just don't let your ego be one of the factors. (Ego is not the same as self respect, but it can darn hard to tell the difference between the two, at times).




Originally Posted By: Onguard
Thanks for the comments Starsky. My dad said the same thing you did! And, That is a great question. I had an offer to go out of town for the weekend and all of my supporters advised me to go. But I thought that leaving on her birthday would be a di*k move. So, l stayed and thought that maybe we could have a good day as a family. I could show her that I could have fun, be light, confident and attractive. Instead, what I faced was basically being ignored while she and my MIL partied like single college women.

I am trying to face the reality that my wife no longer wants anything to do with me. She has no regard for my feelings.


Maybe yes, maybe no. But what she feels today/this hour/week, is NOT going to be what she feels next week/month or tonight.

The emotions involved swing back and forth, but you already know this. Keep it in mind. And remember that your feelings will swing back & forth too.



When I told her yesterday how much her behavior upset me, she said that she "was happy that it hurt me and that I deserved it for all of the times that I would talk to other women in front of her." She was referring to employees of our's at a company holiday party that happened 10 years ago.


Wow, that^^ was a brutal thing to say. Could you ask her if she is referring to the event of 10 years ago? I mean, I'd literally have to know if that is how wacky her thinking is. Is it?

And what the heck happened then, that she has not gotten over?

If there is something nefarious out there or if you have deeply wounded her or had an affair OR IF SHE THINKS those things, can you shed light on that now?

Was it ever resolved? Would SHE say it was? Dig deep and be brave for this...

I ask you that^^, b/c if there is nothing to it, if she is truly out of her gourd, then I'm going to have to agree with Starsky's approach here.

And you should know, that's a rare event.



She has shown no remorse for her affair. She has admitted to still having a desire to be with her ap. There are so many signs that she is totally checked out. I am done being a doormat. In this game, nice guys really do finish last.



Don't confuse nice with the word "weak". They are NOT the same.

Nice Strong men finish first.



Just so I know, are you aware of any physical problems your wife has had lately? You began your thread mentioning that a lot of this is uncharacteristic of your w.

If so, I'd want to know if she going thru menopause, if you know. It is preceded by a few months/years of "peri menopausal" hormonal fluctuations. (I know a lot of my feminist friends will cringe that I'm asking this, but if she's truly acting out of character it is ONE thing I'd want to know.

Also, not to freak you out, but about 12 years ago my bil began to act weird and "goofy". He'd tell very inappropriate jokes in public and got VERY emotional out of nowhere.

He'd lose his temper too, which was out of character. This went on for a few months and my sister talked about going to MC, which he refused to do. She then talked privately, of leaving him for awhile...but then he had a full on seizure and it turned out that he had a brain tumor. (Turns out 20% of brain tumor patients show up for "psychiatric reasons").

Anyhow, yes, in time it killed him. Although it was a lousy thing to watch him realize what had been happening and to be able to do so little about it, I know it made it easier for my sister to stand by him thru all the surgeries and radiation and chemo.

He volunteered for a new clinical trial, and lived longer & better with that type of tumor than anyone had before. He was a very good man, who passed away a few years ago.

So whenever someone tells me that their spouse is "acting SO differently", I at least pose the question of something physical being a factor. Hope you can see why.

FWIW, when my h had whatever his "episode" was, I asked him to get a CAT scan b/c he was behaving so differently than he had the previous 25 years. And b/c we had both seen BIL behave differently for a crap but real reason, h admitted he had ALREADY spoken to a shrink about it. (So I guess HE wondered too, and that counted as "checking on it").

ANYHOW, Those "nice and strong" men may not always remain married to their wives,

but it is the Nice/Strong men who end up being the most content & most satisfied with their lives.

They're the ones who can hold their heads up, b/c they know that when life got very hard, when it was so very difficult and oh so painful to take a step forward,

they still gave it their best.

If you are half the man you sound like you are, you will be loved and lovable, again.

Remember that your kids are watching you, more than you know. So you must show them a man of compassion, strength, honor and self respect.

Show them how to get thru a heartbreak with dignity. Show them that your pain is deep but not "fatal" and Not eternal.

You WILL be happy again.

Know that someday each of your children will face their own setback or betrayal. Show them how one gets to the other side.

And in time, forgive your wife. Not for her sake, but for your sake.

And yes, it's a hell of a lot easier said, than done. But it IS a gift you give yourself.

Here is what I reminded myself of, when I fought the forgiveness concept--

"Holding onto anger to hurt someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire,

to get smoke in their eyes..."



Once you know you've done the most you can do for as long as you can, then turn it over to God,

and be at peace.


Good luck, we are all rooting for you.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

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25yearsmlc, thank you for the thorough response and my apologies for taking so long to reply. My Grandmother passed away this week...

To answer a few of your questions;

I seriously doubt there is anything physically wrong with her.

She is probably going through a MLC though. Nose job, working out 9 times a week, drinking and partying more often, admits that she is very confused about her purpose in life.

Regarding her resentment and anger towards me; She has been a stay at home mom while I have had a career. My career also required me to travel. She was always fearful that I was cheating on her, which I NEVER did. Her dad had an affair many years ago and her parents M survived it. However, they are NOT happy and her mom still hammers her dad about it on a regular basis. Her mom has also told her that she is a fool to think that I was being faithful for all of these years. It makes me furious that they have made up this image of me that is totally false. I have always been 100% transparent with my phone, email, credit card statement, etc.. I have always been happily willing to account for my time in order to make my wife feel safe.

However, I have gotten attention from women and my wife has seen it and knows it. I am guilty of not showing her enough attention in the past, so any attention that I gave to another woman hurt my wife. Understandably so. This is why she now feels entitled to do her thing regardless of how it makes me feel.

The past week has been more of the same, which is mostly bad. My wife attended my Grandmother's funeral but nothing more. No appearance at the wake, dinner, cemetery or brunch. So, I had to field a ton of questions about where she was.. This hurt me but I understand how awkward it is for both of us. She has been in my life for 30 years but her actions over the past 9 months are hard to forgive. She gave me a weak hug after the funeral and then left.

25yearsmlc, you said the right word, "strong". I know what I need to do I just have not been able to find the strength to do it. I need to stop caring about her completely. I need to focus on my life and my kids. I need to keep my career moving and GAL outside of her. Detaching has been very difficult. When I think about living the rest of my life without her it takes the air out of my lungs. Which I don't understand given ALL of the horrible things she has done to me. Why are my feelings still there for her? It's like my heart will not believe what my eyes are seeing.

Yesterday we discussed separation again. Again, I told her that I would not be leaving so she is free to do whatever she wants. She thinks that separating may be the only way for her feelings to return for me. I don't know if separation would help or not. I think the only way her feelings will return is for me to detach, GAL, find my fire again, focus on everything but her, become happy, confident and strong again. My life cannot continue to revolve around her.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
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Quote:
So whenever someone tells me that their spouse is "acting SO differently", I at least pose the question of something physical being a factor. Hope you can see why.

I respectfully disagree here. While its plausible that its medical, not likely. I have no clue who my wife is right now and this seems very documented with WAS's on these boards that I have seen in the short time I have been here.

Quote:
When I think about living the rest of my life without her it takes the air out of my lungs. Which I don't understand given ALL of the horrible things she has done to me. Why are my feelings still there for her? It's like my heart will not believe what my eyes are seeing.

I can relate. I feel the exact same way. But at least it's a honest feeling and a normal one for someone who is not all wrapped up in self-will at the moment.

Quote:
She thinks that separating may be the only way for her feelings to return for me. I don't know if separation would help or not. I think the only way her feelings will return is for me to detach, GAL, find my fire again, focus on everything but her, become happy, confident and strong again. My life cannot continue to revolve around her.

I've had similar conversations with my wife when shes talked of taking the kids etc. I just look at her and say, "You're the one that wants to leave the family, so leave". She'll never even care about felling for you as long as her head is still entrenched firmly in fantasy - la la land. She may need separation from the family to see that, unfortunately.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
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Originally Posted By: Jefe
Quote:
So whenever someone tells me that their spouse is "acting SO differently", I at least pose the question of something physical being a factor. Hope you can see why.


I respectfully disagree here. While its plausible that its medical, not likely. I have no clue who my wife is right now and this seems very documented with WAS's on these boards that I have seen in the short time I have been here.


Not sure what you "disagree" with Jefe. You think it's impossible anything physical could be happening? I merely "posed the question". You yourself say "it's plausible". Note, It's not a clam I'm making, but a question to ask.

And I related the story of my own BIL manifesting dramatic personality changes for a physiological reason. It does happen.

But Onguard points out other actions his w has taken (the nose job, working out so much) that lead me to think this is more a MLC --

that May be partly related, along with possible hormonal changes of peri-menopause, combined with self identity questions that a lot of stay at home moms ask near the time their youngest child begins to need them less.

A sense of purposeless also plays a role in a lot of depression, which is a factor is most MLCs, so I think there are many factors to consider.

Plus she has her weirdo mom and HER issues of "all men cheat" b/c God forbid it couldn't just be HER ex h who did that...

But NONE ^^^ of these mean Onguard must stay or put up with her miserable treatment of him.


But I sense that Onguard is stymied a bit b/c of his shock and disbelief that this woman is his "wife" . He cannot understand it. He sees it, but his heart does not believe it. Boy I really do relate. So I merely mention that people change for reasons we cannot see, and sometimes for reasons we will never know.

A few weeks ago (before the DB purge I think) I took a very unpleasant gander at my first posts years ago...man, I sure asked the following question A LOT-- that question was "WHY???" I went in circles with that question for at least a year, and finally I just had to drop it. Enough.

Sometimes it just does not matter why, if it's not going to change anything.

[quote] When I think about living the rest of my life without her it takes the air out of my lungs. Which I don't understand given ALL of the horrible things she has done to me. Why are my feelings still there for her? It's like my heart will not believe what my eyes are seeing.

I can relate. I feel the exact same way. But at least it's a honest feeling and a normal one for someone who is not all wrapped up in self-will at the moment.

Quote:
She thinks that separating may be the only way for her feelings to return for me. I don't know if separation would help or not. I think the only way her feelings will return is for me to detach, GAL, find my fire again, focus on everything but her, become happy, confident and strong again. My life cannot continue to revolve around her.


Exactly ^^^ what your PLAN should be. GAL, Detach, become the man you were meant to become. Do not make your wife (or any one person) the center of your life.

Make yourself i.e., your growth and development as an honorable strong loving man, father and partner (of someone) the center of your life. That's YOUR goal.

Here's the thing. IF IF IF, she is going to return someday anyhow,
you GAL will have done no harm AND will make the time "waiting for her" pass by faster, & with a much happier experience for YOU.

IF IF IF we somehow knew she'd never come back, no matter what you do,

then GAL now gets you to detachment and happiness, that much faster.

IF you do not know what she's going to do OR how you will feel when she decides what that is going to be, OR what factors will influence the situation,

Know that GAL still helps YOU! For the obvious reasons -like you won't be as miserable, or lonely and you'll be able to not think about her for a few hours or even days, or as painfully, you should GAL.

But the less obvious reason (that we are not supposed to mention b/c the WAS is supposed to not matter), is that GAL makes you more attractive to others, including the WAS. That is a fact.

IF GAL has ever made a difference at all, it has brought the WAS back to the home.

So IF it matters to the WAS at all, it'd be in favor of GAL b/c it means you are not dependent on them for your happiness, so you bring something to the table other than your needs, you're less likely to hammer them with their "Crimes",
you are making friends with new people which means you are very worth of it, you ARE interestED in many things and in others, & thus you are more interesting.

GAL makes you happier, & happier people are more attractive and fun to be around....not easy perhaps, but most definitely not complicated.

No matter how you cut it, GAL makes sense for the LBS. I'd say it is crucial to making it thru this ordeal.

GAL helps to Detach,
Detaching gives the LBS some peace,
peace within allows you to begin healing,
healing allows growth and
sets a great example for the kids, (and the kids witnessing their dad GAL helps them as well)
and gets the LBS out into the world that does NOT know about his w or their marital situation
and for a few hours a week, he can breathe freely
and connect with new people and get his self esteem back up some.

Onguard, can you tell I'm urging you to GAL? Yeah, I figured you picked up on that. cool


On that note, ONG, what are your GAL activities? If it's not a lot, what can you begin, this month?


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

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Embrace the Change
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Onguard,

Your comment about your MIL never letting go of her h's A, reminded me of a man I knew growing up. See if any of this resonates with you.

I grew up with a neighbor who was a retired Army Colonel. He had been a POW for several years, in Vietnam.

He and his wife had 5 kids. Years before they moved into our neighborhood, the Colonel had had an affair with some OW, brought her to work functions and evidently really cared for her.

So, how did I, a young 17 y/o neighbor girl, know that the Colonel had had an A?

Oh, I knew b/c everyone knew that, b/c "Mrs Colonel" made sure we all knew, so we would not think he was such a great guy.

There were times I wanted to ask the Colonel about his POW experiences. Mrs. C- would steer the topic away. I truly believed for years, that she was protecting him from a bad memory.

Then l learned that she simply didn't like him getting that type of attention. At the time we knew the family, (Post Affair) the Colonel was kind, funny, handsome, strong, and really just a great guy. Yes, we all did like & admire HIM.

In contrast, She was a bitter woman, who made a snide remark about her h at every turn. From how he over cooked the grilled meat, to undermining the value of a reference letter he wrote for my h to how poorly he mowed the lawn and "ruined her flowers AGAIN".
She could NOT give that man a kind word to save her soul.

She never praised him in front of her kids, or us, and she would undermine any compliment others would give him. She seemed to live to make him pay.
I'm not exaggerating.

She was NOT kind to him at all. Seemed like she never let him forget what SHE had endured & what HE had done TO her AND their family.

Today, over 3 decades later, only 1 of their 5 kids is married, (their only son). It's his 2nd or 3rd marriage. The others (all girls obviously) are all single. 2 never married, the other 2 keep on getting married repeatedly. So none of their d's had their first m's work out OR even tried marriage...

The choice that Mrs C- made was the worst of all choices.

She could have divorced him. She could have gone to counseling and therapy, to learn how to forgive him.

But instead, she made the worst AND most tempting choice;
she stayed married AND she stayed miserable. And made it lousy for HIM too.
She never let Colonel forget his sins.

She held it over his head like the Sword of Damacles.
She threw it in his face (or threatened to) every time they fought or disagreed.

She did NOT Forgive him and she did not even try to. Not in a serious humbling way.
Ironically, from where we sat & from what WE saw, HE was the victim and she was the wrongdoer....she was not a woman we sympathized with.

She should have let him go when she found out about the A; OR as soon as she realized she could not forgive him; OR she should have learned how to forgive.

She could have bequeathed her children a beautiful legacy. She COULD have taught and passed on to them, the concepts and practices of true forgiveness, real redemption, deep love and full commitment.

Instead, she passed onto them suspicions, distrust, cynicism, bitterness and big time grudge holding. She did not think he "deserved" forgiveness -- AND she overlooked how many others were affected by her choice not to forgive.

I wish she had heard what I heard awhile back, which was

"Holding onto anger, to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire,---
to get smoke in their eyes."

You won't be repeating that^^ for your kids, thank God.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Thanks for the advice 25! Yes, GAL is something I need to do more of. Going through this has made me feel like hiding but I know that is the wrong thing to do. Also, having been with my w for 20 years, a ton of my activities involved her or our married friends. Now I am trying to find new activities and new friends. I exercise, play golf, go fishing, go out to dinner, go to concerts or ball games. It's not easy keeping a PMA while this is going on but I am trying each day. I was battling depression PRIOR to the bomb drop, so as much as I hate excuses, the truth is that it is affecting me. Anyone who has ever had depression will understand the toll it takes on your self confidence and energy level. That is my biggest challenge, overcoming the way I feel in order to act as if.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
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The last few days have been eventful. I found more notes that my wife had written in preparation for her IC session. She stated that even though her A ended over 4 months ago, she is "still not over him". "Would still meet him". "he is still influencing her lack of feelings for me" She also made reference to the fact that she regrets not talking to a man who approached her a couple of weeks ago when she was out with her friends. I know that spying is a no-no and I am not proud about my lack of discipline. However, when faced with the trauma of infidelity and the uncertainty of limbo, the urge to know the truth is overwhelming at times. I know it shows weakness which is not attractive at all. It applies pressure which is the kiss of death. But for me it's not about saving the M at all costs. It's about saving the M if it is the right thing to do and IF it can be saved.

So, she is still pining for her ap. The only reason she is not with him is because he does not want to be with her. This is a tough pill to swallow. I was under the assumption that she was adhering to NC but is it really NC when she would be with him if he would have her? I say no. After almost 5 months she is still hung up on OM. In addition, she has made it known that she is looking to "make new friends" by going out and partying.

She tells me that she wants time to process her feelings. That she needs space (at least a month of me totally leaving her alone) so that she can think. I told her that I know how she feels about OM and that her actions show me that I am plan B, at best. I told her that this situation is not working for me either and we both have a lot of thinking to do. She has been looking for a place to live but I know that she is hesitant to leave our home. Not because of me but because of fear of the unknown and the impact it would have on our D13.

So much damage has been done. Her bringing him into our home, twice, to have sex is something that I will never fully recover from. Those acts say a lot about her level of disregard for me, our M, our home and our family. TWICE! What kind of person does that? And then tells her son's 20 year old GF about it while on a drinking binge?! And now to see that she would still meet him..

I don't want to be divorced but living like this is not an option. I feel like a total doormat. Even she said to me yesterday, "I can't believe that you are still here" and "It would make me happy if you found someone else". Then an hour later she said that "she has not made any decisions and does not know what she wants." None of my family or friends think that this M can be saved. My w does not believe it either.

My plan is to have my attorney start the process of ending our M through a dissolution. I will stay away from her and allow my attorney to do her job.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
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I have exchanged vm with my attorney. I keep wavering back and forth as to whether or not I should start the D process. My w has said that she thinks S might be our only hope because she is waiting for her feelings to return. Starsky has said, which I agree with, that feelings follow actions. You first make a decision that you want the M to work, then you act in loving ways, then the feelings return. But her feelings for the om are still strong, even though he ended the A (supposedly) over 5 months ago. Which begs the question, "If she didn't want it to end and she would still meet him now then has the A really ended?" (what she wrote down is "Would still meet him". When I confronted her she said that it would be to obtain closure. Which is total bs). The way I see it. SHE is still having an affair. She is hoping for her ap the way I am hoping for her. Which really su*ks. The ONLY positive signs she has given me are to say "I don't know what I want, I am confused"/ "If I were sure about our M being over then I wouldn't still be here." Basically I am grasping for straws.

It all comes back to the same formula I suppose. Detach, GAL, follow the 37 rules, know that I will be ok no matter what. Treat her with respect, be confident, content and strong. If she changes her mind and wants to return then evaluate how I feel at that point. I need to proceed without her.

The only question I have is whether or not to start the D. She is still in the affair mentality. If he contacted her today I have no doubt that she would be with him. Which makes me sick. He lives just a few miles from us, so even IF she ever decided to work on the M, I would be in constant fear of this A starting up again.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

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Onguard, only you can answer the question of whether to start the D. Just make sure you don't do it as a tactic to snap W out of her fog. It's ok to sit on it for a few days to insure it's what you really want to do.



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Thanks Tarheel. I know that using D as a tactic is a horrible plan. I'm just so conflicted at times that I just want this nightmare to end. She is still in the home even though she has threatened to leave multiple times. My S20 pointed out that she has not had any consequences for her A. I then realized how soft I have been through this entire journey. I have been a total doormat and given her the perception that I will be here forever, no matter what. And that is definitely NOT the case. I need to get much tougher with my actions. I know that I need to employ the LRT hard. I also believe that I should ask her to move out of our home until she is ready to commit to R and work on our M.

She has made it known that she is still pining for OM even though he ended the A over 5 months ago. She has also indicated that she is open to an AP2. I have tried to be nice and act loving to her and she has just walked all over me.

We talked for about 10 minutes today. She again stated how miserable she was in our M and that she is not ready to give me what I want. That she has a lot of work to do on her own. She also said that she does not like talking to me because it reminds her of our past when she was so unhappy. "I will never let another man control me ever again". "You gave me the bare minimum and I will never tolerate that again. I didnt think I was worthy but now I know differently." Then she asked me, "Why would you want to stay together?" "A relationship should have trust and fidelity, and this one will never have that." She is basically telling me to end our M.

I was the one who initiated the talk but I said very little. We only had a few minutes to talk because she was leaving. After she left she sent me the following text: I'm searching for the answers every day. Weighing everything heavily both ways.

I have made the mistake of acting weak and needy because that is how I feel. I am so angry that I am dealing with depression at the same time as this crisis. Infidelity is a leading cause of depression and I was already recovering from depression when she dropped the bomb. The pain is crushing but somehow I have to find the strength to act. If I sit here waiting like a doormat then I'm going to end up divorced sooner or later anyway.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
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Things continue to go south. In the past 8 days she has gone out 3 times, coming home at 2:30am, 3am and 4am. Each of these has been a week night as well. So, I am home with D13 while w is out getting blasted. This morning I made the mistake of asking her where she was until 3am to which she gave me the "Your not my father, don't judge me" speech. She says we are separated and she will do what she wants and does not have to answer to a man, not now or ever again. However, then she proceeded to tell me what she did without me having to say another word. Who knows if it was a lie but I was surprised that she kept going. At the end she forwarned me that she is going out again on Saturday night and it will also probably be a very late night. I know the girls she is going out with, so I know it's not OM.

She is having a hard time visualizing a new marriage with me. She thinks my changes are temp. and that she will soon be miserable again. I asked her what she has to lose if we try. She says that her heart is not in it and it wouldnt work. So she continues to act in a manner that is damaging to our R.

She says that we need to be under separate roofs and that she is still looking for a place that will suit her needs. "Our only hope is to separate and see if that helps my feelings to return." To which I keep telling her that feelings follow actions, not vice versa. She also says she needs more space and time to process her feelings and figure things out. I have not brought up the A but I have engaged her in talks about the future. I read Sandi2 37 rules often but I am finding it impossible to follow them consistently.

All of my supporters are telling me that it's hopeless. They are all telling me to file for D and move on with my life. But I am not ready to give up. A big part of me wishes that I was but the truth is that I'm not. Everything I read here tells me that I will run out of patience at some point.. Like Starsky, he had a moment where he just knew he was done. I'm waiting and hoping for that moment.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
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Originally Posted By: Onguard


She says that we need to be under separate roofs and that she is still looking for a place that will suit her needs.



I would strongly suggest that you insist she find something by Saturday. Having your D13 witness her mother coming home at 3 and 4am, drunk, is not the environment for a girl about to go thru her most formative years in regards to how she will view men and relationships.

If your wife can't find a permanent residence by then, I'd suggest she crash on one of her party girlfriend's couches.

Time to be the Papabear, Onguard. mad Your daughter's (not to mention yours!) emotional health is more important than trying to re-attractive your wayward wife at this point.

Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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Thanks Starsky. It is definitely time for me to man up. I have been walking on eggshells hoping that she has an awakening and things are only getting worse. I am going to tell her that she needs to find a place to live asap. Obviously I cannot force her to leave the home but would enforcing a boundary be a smart move? For example, at 1am all doors will be locked, the lights will be out and the alarm will be set. So plan accordingly.

D13 knows that things are really bad with us. I am trying to be a great dad to her but she is somewhat closed off right now. It's a balancing act of showing her love and giving her space. I am doing all I can to make her feel safe and to show her how to handle a crisis with dignity and respect. It's the strength part that I have been severely lacking to this point.

I see many similarities between some of the other stories (Shodan and Zew) and my own. In all instances we have a waw that is not remorseful and will / would not commit to the M. Trying to nice them back will never work. Trying to nice them back will never work!! If I say it again and again, maybe it will sink in. I have to get tough and be willing to lose it all in order to have ANY chance at saving it. My w does not fear losing me. She has had NO consequences for her A. She does not respect me. Her life, other than losing her ap, has not changed at all. I would certainly prefer that our M work but it takes 2 people, willing to do the hard work to make that happen. I have no choice but to take steps to move forward without her.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
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Originally Posted By: Onguard
Thanks Starsky. It is definitely time for me to man up. I have been walking on eggshells hoping that she has an awakening and things are only getting worse. I am going to tell her that she needs to find a place to live asap. Obviously I cannot force her to leave the home but would enforcing a boundary be a smart move? For example, at 1am all doors will be locked, the lights will be out and the alarm will be set. So plan accordingly.


That ^^^ is exactly what I did in my own sitch. Fortunately, while not happy about it, my wife did respect that boundary.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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Originally Posted By: Onguard


D13 knows that things are really bad with us. I am trying to be a great dad to her but she is somewhat closed off right now. It's a balancing act of showing her love and giving her space. I am doing all I can to make her feel safe and to show her how to handle a crisis with dignity and respect. It's the strength part that I have been severely lacking to this point.



I know it's hard, man. I had to do it and it about broke my heart, and my girls were 18 and 20 at the time. Let her know that you love her, her MOTHER loves her, and that you still love her mother but that "Mom is just making some bad choices right now" or, alternatively, "Mom and I are just going thru some things that we need to figure out right now" (whichever you are comfortable with). Let her know - -frequently! -- that "this is NOT your fault!", and also tell her "I will always tell you the truth and you can ask me anything."

It's imperative that she have at least one parent she can get the truth from at all times, during this difficult period.

Hang in there, man. You sound like you do have a real clear understanding of the dynamics of it all, and it's only in the "DOING" part that you're having difficulty. I found that praying for STRENGTH, daily, really helped me. I'm a "fixer" and a "pleaser" and a classic "Mr. Nice Guy" by nature, so NONE of this came naturally to me. STILL doesn't! But I had to learn new skills, and I'm proud that I did and they still serve me well and now I can teach them to my adult children to use in THEIR relationships.

Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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My WW wrote me a letter today informing me that she has found a place to live and will be moving out next week. Here are some of the main points she also wrote:

Feels that this is a neccesary step if we are going to have any chance of R.

She is sick of my spying on her and asking her questions when she is out late.

She needs to step away and does not want to feel angry anymore.

She does not want us to communicate about our R for 30 days. Basically, only communicate about the kids or business by text or email.

Cannot go back to the M for the wrong reasons, fear, security, finances, history.

She needs to feel what life would be like without me.

She will not be dating and is not doing this to be with other men in any way.

Doing this makes everything real. It is bringing up emotions that have been buried and that is a good thing.

She wants us to start 2015 either fully together or fully apart.


I have not responded and was hoping to get some advice before I do. Or even if I should respond. I have said a while ago that if she left the house that I was going to pursue D. I only said it once but I'm sure she remembers it. I also feel like this is a step against the M, not towards it. She says she is hoping that the distance will stir up positive feelings for me. Part of me thinks that it makes some sense but another part of me is saying, don't be an idiot, she is looking to create more time and space to see either her AP or a potential OM2. (again, lots of nights out with single friends and coming home between 3-4am)


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
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Originally Posted By: Onguard
She says she is hoping that the distance will stir up positive feelings for me. Part of me thinks that it makes some sense but another part of me is saying, don't be an idiot, she is looking to create more time and space to see either her AP or a potential OM2. (again, lots of nights out with single friends and coming home between 3-4am)


I agree with you. Sounds like she's Plan B'ing you.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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Onguard,

Man up.

She is treating you like plan B.

So do the same. Treat her like plan B. Let her move out. Don't fret.

Move on with your life. That's the only thing that will protect you and your daughter (and possibly re-attract your wife).

Try and keep the house and protect your daughter from a mom going through a mid-life crisis.

--Theoden




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Thanks Starsky and Theoden. WW and I had a blowout today. She is having reservations about moving out due to our D13 and tried to guilt me into being the one to leave. She told me I was being selfish and didn't care how all of this would affect our D13. That's when I let it go. I asked her if she was thinking about our daughter when she was having sex with him in our house. Or when she was meeting with him time and time again over a 6 month span. I also told her that since she needs time and space, not me, why would I leave?

She also "blames me 100% for ruining her relationship with her son." Our son is 20 years old and I told him about the A within an hour of finding out because he was in the house at the moment of impact. Again, I said, "I think your ACTIONS had a little to do with the situation. I told our ADULT son the truth."

I guess some marriages just can't be saved. She has totally checked out and has done nothing except blame shift and rug sweep in addition to showing zero remorse. I agree, it's time to man up.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
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She wants YOU to leave because she's screwing other men and partying all night?

No way.

Talk to a lawyer.

This is to protect YOU and your daughter.

--Alan




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Update, OG? How are things lookin' your way?


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
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I met with my lawyer this week. I took half of the money out of our joint checking acct. I have shut off her companion credit cards. I changed my direct deposit to my own account. I told her to come up with a budget for her monthly living expenses. Her reaction has been predictable so far. She got upset, accused me of playing games, threatened to make the divorce painful for me. I'm just staying as calm as possible and letting her know that she has made her choices and now I am making mine. D is not what I want but it appears to be my only option.

Last night I went to dinner with a group of friends, so still doing my best to GAL. She is planning on moving out next week but I'm not sure which days. We walk around the house avoiding each other, it is so uncomfortable. Anytime we try to discuss anything it turns into an argument with her speaking to me like Sh*t. I have come to the conclusion that our M cannot be saved. She is too far gone. She says she needs time to "think and process without any pressure from me". Translation: I want to party and date without any interference as well as test the waters of living on my own while keeping you as plan b.

Tomorrow is the 6 month anniversary of bomb drop and I have basically been a doormat the entire time until now. I tried following the rules but was not very successful. Excuses are a dime a dozen so I won't offer any. It hurts, plain and simple. I miss the life we had, our family, the woman she was, the happiness and the security. I always had 100% confidence in our love for each other. Then my world was turned upside down and it feels like it will never be right again.

I don't see any other options. She has clearly checked out of the marriage, she has no interest in trying start over with me, she is behaving like she is 30 again and she has decided to move out. I can sit here like a doormat or I can do exactly what Theoden suggested and get on with my life. The only things about me that she values are financial security and comfort zone. It's not much but it's all I can use to show her what life will be like without me.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
Living in same house, separate beds
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I'm sorry, OG. I can tell you are feeling super-defeated. And I understand.

And I know this isn't what you want to hear, but sometimes in these kinds of situations, some time and space are exactly what you BOTH need.

When you're in each other's faces all the time, and if you are unable to figure out - and stick to - changes you need to make in yourself and your side of the M, then the problems in the M are not only not being fixed ... they're being MAGNIFIED. Living together provides more opportunities for our spouses to see our changes, sure. But if you are having a hard time implementing sustainable changes in your life - which would ultimately hopefully re-attract your W - and sticking to those changes, then your W isn't seeing any changes she can believe in. And she's definitely not going to want to meet you in the middle. In fact, she'll likely just dig in her heels even further.

All that to say: A S, while difficult on a family, could just be a bump in the road. And it could also be a blessing is disguise. Regroup. Don't allow a negative attitude - or ANYTHING your W is saying or doing - lead your decision-making. You get to decide when you're done. Maybe you are. Maybe you aren't. But a S isn't necessarily the end. I would have sworn to you, based on my H's words AND actions (we were S for 2 months earlier this year) that he was "too far gone." He was hateful. SWORE he was never returning home or to our M.

But he did.

Hang in there. Stiffen that backbone. Find your confidence. And keep us posted here.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
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"Don't allow a negative attitude - or ANYTHING your W is saying or doing - lead your decision-making. You get to decide when you're done. Maybe you are. Maybe you aren't. But a S isn't necessarily the end. I would have sworn to you, based on my H's words AND actions (we were S for 2 months earlier this year) that he was "too far gone." He was hateful. SWORE he was never returning home or to our M.

But he did.

Hang in there. Stiffen that backbone. Find your confidence. And keep us posted here.
"

Train. I needed to hear these exact words today. Thank you.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
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My pleasure, Jefe.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 58
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Thank you Train. I have many reasons to be thankful today and finding this community is one of them. I also know that I will be fine no matter what happens with my M. I'm sitting here with my 2 awesome kids, cooking, playing video games and watching football. My phone has been full of texts from my family and friends since early this morning.

I know that I gave an honest effort to save my M, even under circumstances where almost everyone has told me to do the opposite. My ww complaints centered around being neglected. I tried to show her positive changes but it was really hard to do. Now that I think more about it, time apart may improve our situation. It certainly cant get much worse. Trying to be super husband with a remorseless ww who did the things she did has proven to be impossible for me. She cut me very deep and i'm not willing to save my M at all costs. She needs to want it and be willing to work WITH me on starting over.

Happy Thanksgiving DBers!


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
Living in same house, separate beds
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Posts: 58
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WW has decided to postpone moving out indefinitely. This marks the 4th time she has told me she is leaving and failed to make the move. Also, she put up the tree and decorated the house while I was gone last week. I take this as an indication that her mind is all over the place. The part that upsets me is the fact that she has had 3 serious talks with our D13 about mom and dad living apart for a while. Only to change her mind later. I am concerned that this is putting our D13 through additional stress and will make it harder on her when the real move does come.

Last week ww met with an attorney and he told her not to leave the house. He indicated, according to her, that the courts will likely force me to leave because I travel for business and she is the primary caregiver of our D13. I have not had a chance to speak to my lawyer about that yet but it signals to me that I had better start preparing for a vicious D. I am going to buy a var and keep it with me at all times in case she tries to accuse me of any type of domestic abuse. It is surreal that our relationship has gotten to this point.

For my part I have been executing the 180 better than ever. I am trying to accept that our M is not likely to be saved. My emotions are swinging all over the place. When I see a commercial about a family enjoying the holidays my heart sinks. Then I see her getting dolled up to go to spin class and my blood boils. (She still attends the same studio where her "former" ap works). She does not attend on days when he works but it is still a slap in my face and a testament to her lack of interest in our M.

However, I would be lying if I said that part of me was still not hoping for a miracle.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
Living in same house, separate beds
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 58
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It was inevitable that I would run into her AP at some point and last night it happened. I took my w, D13 and S20 to the movies. On the way to the theater I noticed that we were right behind her ap's car. (He has a personalized plate). I did not say a word and intentionally slowed down to hit a light. It was raining so I dropped my w and daughter off at the door (her parents were already in the lobby waiting) and my son and I went to park the car. I told my son that we had been right behind him and my son looks up and says, "Is that him?". He was parked about 20 feet from us and just getting out of his car. He was alone. I watched him walk up to the theater and I decided that I needed to confront him. As I was walking up to the theater doors I saw him abruptly turn around and walk away. He and my W had seen each other. He walked off to the side, clearly trying to think about what to do and looking at his phone. I was walking towards him and my heart was pounding. I called his name and he looked up. I walked to about 10 feet from him and just said "I think you should find something else to do tonight". He said "I know, I saw her.". I just looked at him without saying another word and he walked away. There were so many things I wanted to say but my anger was through the roof. The last thing I want is to make my situation worse by getting an assault charge. But I had to face him. I could not just let him leave without saying something to him.

My son and I then walked up to meet W and daughter and they were both visibly upset. My w had seen her ap and she knew that I had seen him as well. My daughter says she wants to go home because mom saw someone who she doesnt like and looks like she is going to cry. "Why wont anyone tell me whats going on?" I said, Mom and dad are just not getting along right now. To which she said "I know but no one will tell me why. Im not stupid, I know something is going on." I ended up deflecting her questions the best that I could and after about 10 minutes we all calmed down and decided to see the movie. The night ended up ok for her, which was my focus.

Overall things between my W and I have been the same. She is still in the house and I have still not filed for D. It's Christmas morning and the 4 of us did our best to have our family tradition of opening gifts. I am still hoping for a miracle for our M. However, at the same time I am wishing that my feelings for her would die. The pain is intense. I miss the life we had so much. But it takes 2 people and right now she is no where close to wanting to work on our M. I have stayed away from her, trying my best to detach. She is just emotionally gone and it doesn't feel like there is any way she is ever coming back.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
Living in same house, separate beds
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Onguard, nice job on keeping that confrontation under control. Very well done.

I know it hurts, W and I also put on the happy face today to maintain traditions.

I have found it easier when I commit to making sure those traditions continue, the baking, cooking of favorite dishes, candy making, with the kids, and whether or not my W chooses to participate. I keeps my attitude right, and leaves a happy memory for both me and kids. If W wants to grump, it's her loss. If you keep this up, you will find yourself being happy even without W. Then if she comes back, it's just icing on the cake.

Stay strong, keep hoping for the miracle, but plan for happiness even without it.

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OG,
I'm so sorry for the pain you're going through. But I want to echo zew - sounds like you handled the confrontation very well. I was cheering for you when I read your post and was glad you confronted him. But also glad you kept your head. I honestly don't know if I could have handled that half as well as you did.


Me: 39 W: 46
D: 7.5 S: 5
SD: 16 SS: 12
T: 2 (06/2012)
M: 2 (12/2012)
Separation 09/2014. No talks of D yet. No communication since 10/3/2014
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Thanks Zew and Okjpc. WW is back to planning her move out. She has not given me a date but told me over the weekend that it's time for her to move forward toward a new beginning and that she feels ready to physically leave for the first time. We have had very little communication. We went to dinner with our kids on NYE but barely spoke a word to each other. I have not been very good a GAL lately either. My mood has been in the tank. I'm trying to convince myself that I will be ok no matter what happens.

I know that I need to be strong right now but it is so hard. What I want most is for my marriage to survive but it feels like it is slipping away and there is nothing I can do. She has experienced freedom and she likes it. In her words, "I cannot un-see freedom".

Why am I not able to be stronger? I have so many things going for me yet all I can do is think about my w and getting her back. All of my friends and family are stunned that I would even take her back. They look at me like I have 3 heads when I tell them that I want to save my marriage. I wish it were different. My attorney, who also thinks I'm nutz, told me that almost all of her clients are eager to end the marriage. I wish I felt that way. It would be so much easier if I were angry and looking to move on. But my feelings are what they are.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
Living in same house, separate beds
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 374
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Hey OG

Any update on your situation?

I feel your pain. I'm in the same boat except i'm having to leave as I cant afford to stay in our house on my own.
As hard as it is you have to accept your marriage as you know it is over. The pain is unbearable I know. The woman you thought you knew left a long time ago. I find it amazing how they all do the same thing. Focus on you and your amazing kids. Although it doesn't feel like it at the time WAW are hurting to unless they are some sort of sociopath. For me I truly believe I broke my wife's heart a long time ago. Our connection started to fail 3 years ago and all I knew was how to blow up and blame. I threatened divorce and splitting because I didn't know what else to say to try and get her attention. This was before I knew about DB Since that moment on she was never the same. She just checked out and moved on. By the time we realise this its too late and they're usually involved with someone else. They all believe that is where their happiness lies. "Life is too short I have to be happy for me now blah blah". Think rationally. We know that isn't true. When the fairy tale ends and they are in a proper relationship with someone else the gloss soon wears off. They don't see that though because they just want their next fix.
I have wrote this story on another post somewhere but my best friend got D from his wife a few years back. Same thing. Their connection failed and they didn't deal with it. She met her old flame from school online before you know it she has checked out and they get divorced. 2 kids involved. Now I knew at the time the were hasty to get divorced. She married the AP quickly and my mate, 1st hubby is with someone else with another child. His 1st wife recently told me that she longs for the day that her and 1st hubby can be back together. We were at a 'do' and the way she was looking at him was uncomfortable in front of her new husband. She still loves him. 1st hubby also admits he doesn't want to be with the person he is with. Its a mess and could have been resolved. The grass isn't greener. Its just they are wearing glasses that make it look so. We all wonder if the grass is greener when we're not happy with what we've got. its human nature.
There is nothing I can do to change my wife. I have to accept that. I am moving on and will be great again no matter what with our D8. One day my wife will wake up and think wtf have I done. will it be too late? who knows. I'm not hanging around though anymore to try and fix something that cant be fixed the way it is. I need to get my own life back
I'm sure your doing well whatever has happened.


Me:40 W:35
D:8
T:13 M:10
WAW: 7/14
PA Discovered: 1/15 at least 6 months
Moved out and moved on

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Thanks for checking in SRD. I have been busy with work and GAL lately. I just got back from a ski trip with my D13. Not much has changed with my M. Our family recently went on a trip to FL but things between my w and I were very strained. We barely spoke to each other. Since the trip I have pulled back a lot. I do not text or call her. I do not start conversations or even say hello or goodnight. If there is ever going to be a reconciliation it is going to have to be started by her. It still hurts like hell but I am finally, slowly, starting to accept reality. My w has not been in love with me for a very long time and the chances of her coming back are very close to zero. I have to walk away and never look back. I am seeing my attorney next week and I am definitely going to begin the process of ending the M. I need to move on with my life and focus on me and my kids.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
Living in same house, separate beds
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 374
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Hey

Sorry to hear that. I'm sure it will get easier once you have committed to moving on. Great you've been skiing with your D. Life goes on and we just roll with the punches. We're still in same house but separate beds. I'm hoping to move in next few weeks. As it stands I'm done with this. I've been fighting for 6 months to save something that left a longtime ago. She is still with OM and I see no way it is going to end. She struggles with guilt and pain but is choosing her short term happiness over everyone else. I don't believe anything that comes out of her mouth at the moment. We're still very friendly and she seems to think this is going to continue. It isn't. I just can't be her best mate while she continues what she is doing. It's just too painful. Is still all a giant secret. I'm not sure how she is ever going to be able to go public with it. It will be devasting to her family. Looking to move on and make a life for myself with d8. I'm still sure one day my wife will come out of the fog and think wtf have I done. thats for her to live with.
Good luck with your future life for D and S as well.


Me:40 W:35
D:8
T:13 M:10
WAW: 7/14
PA Discovered: 1/15 at least 6 months
Moved out and moved on

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 58
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It's been a while since I have posted and a lot has happened. First, my depression has lifted! It is literally like someone has turned on the lights for the first time in over a year. I cannot begin to explain how much depression affects one's ability to be emotionally strong. In the past few weeks since I have been feeling better I have finally been able to execute the key principles of Divorce Busting. And I have been doing it for ME. And guess what... It has had a big effect on my ww's behavior towards me. She is texting me multiple times per day, she is asking me to go on date nights, she is sitting next to me, holding my hand, asking for a hug, initiating talks about our M and the future.

For the first time since this nightmare began she does not have all the power. She is asking me if I have found someone else. She clearly sees that she is losing me, which she is, and it is causing her to react. What is equally interesting is that the more she chases me the less I want her! Talk about role reversal.

We are far from trying any R and I know that both of our feelings are going to be up and down but I am in such a better place now than I was just 1 month ago. I have updated my wardrobe, been working out like a machine, focusing on my career which is going great, taking trips with my kids and just enjoying my life again! I feel incredible! It's like I have been reborn. For all of you who supported me when I was really suffering I cannot thank you enough. You were all right, it does get better and I will be fine.

As for my M, I am not sure which way it's going to go. I would still say the odds of R are slim. So much damage has been done that I don't know where we would start. I am being cordial and loving towards my ww. But I am no longer doing any form of pursuing. Zero. My plan is to continue to do what I have been doing over the past few weeks and see how she responds. If there is ever going to be a R, she is going to have to want it as badly as I do. She is pursuing me as I said above but I know that her feelings are still not there for me. I believe she feels me slipping away and is grasping to regain control as opposed to really feeling like she wants to return to the M. But I am going to be fine either way.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
Living in same house, separate beds
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OG you are an inspiration for all of us !

Hang in there, I am in a very similar sitch and reading your posts has given me incredible encouragement!

Praying for you.


M44 H37
D13 S8 S6
Married 14
W is stay at home mom
ILYBNIWY:9-28-14
A started 04/2014
OM confirm 11/24/2014
Admit PA 01/05/2015
09/11/2015 W file for D and wants the moon
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OG, glad to hear you are doing so well! Your attitude sounds tremendous, and very healthy. Thanks for the update!


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Starsky, thank you for all of the guidance that you have given me as well as countless others who are struggling to save thier marriages.

The momentum shift has continued over the past couple of weeks. I am getting stronger and she is doing more and more pursuing. Yesterday I was very busy going about my day and not paying much attention to her. I left the house to go pick up a new car and she called me as soon as I pulled out of the driveway. She asked me "why are you punishing me?" I said, I'm not, what are you talking about. She then went on to say how much she missed me and wanted to "Give our marriage a try with both feet in". She said things to me yesterday that I never thought I would hear:

"You used to tell me that I was acting like an alien had taken over my body. Well, you were right and looking back on the last year I cannot believe the things I did and said"

"I see you and I, 2 years from now, holding hands and walking on a beach. More in love than ever and knowing our relationship will never be vulnerable to anything like this again"

"Thank you for not letting go and for giving me a chance to come to my senses. You certainly had every right and reason to move on and it shows me how strong your love really is".

"I will never forgive myself for the choices I made and the pain I caused you".

There are more but I think you get the idea. However, even though she is clearly having a major shift in her emotions, she has still not agreed to total transparency. It has been a while since I asked for that but she knows it's a condition for me. She also has not stopped going to the fitness studio where she met her ap (who still teaches there). She goes at times when he is not there but knows how I feel about it.

My schedule is very full for the next 6 weeks and she knows it. I email her my forward calendar on a regular basis. There are a number of business trips as well as 2 personal trips with my friends. My GAL activities are in full force and I am loving it!

It is very emotional watching her "wake up" from this MLC as she is now calling it. So many nights I tried to accept that she was gone forever and I had no choice but to move on without her. What is even more interesting is watching her try to divorce-bust me! I can see her fear. She keeps asking me if I have met someone else. She sees that I am no longer suffering from depression and I am looking better than I have looked in 5 years. She sees that I am no longer focused on her. She is trying to act strong and display a take it or leave it attitude at times. For example, we have a date night scheduled this Friday at her request and she said yesterday that if I was really not sure about working on our marriage that we should just cancel Friday night. I responded by saying that I would like to have a pleasant, casual dinner with no relationship talk and that if she wanted something else then yes, we should cancel. I told her that I need more time to adjust to the new/old me. The non-depressed me. This past 18 months has been a nightmare and I am focused on engaging life again.

I really don't know what I want. I don't know if I can forgive her for abandoning me when I needed her most and for betraying me by having an affair. I will never forget the things she did or said to me while I was suffering so much. It feels very good to see her coming back to reality but I need to decide if I can forgive her and trust her again.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
Living in same house, separate beds
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 399
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Congratulations Onguard, this seems like excellent news.

It does seem from what you're saying that your W is coming to her senses. If you haven't asked for transparency in a while then I think it's time that you start laying out your conditions for a potential R, should that be what you want.

These things may include total transparency, no more visits to the fitness studio (can't she find a new one, or maybe go with you?), maybe a NC letter if applicable.

From what I've read it seems you may be approaching piecing. I have no experience of that at all but from what I've read it would seem that it's natural for you to feel a flood of emotions as the dynamics of your sitch change. My guess is ultimately you want your W back so make sure you don't make rash decisions based on emotion.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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Originally Posted By: Onguard
Starsky, thank you for all of the guidance that you have given me as well as countless others who are struggling to save thier marriages.

The momentum shift has continued over the past couple of weeks. I am getting stronger and she is doing more and more pursuing. Yesterday I was very busy going about my day and not paying much attention to her. I left the house to go pick up a new car and she called me as soon as I pulled out of the driveway. She asked me "why are you punishing me?" I said, I'm not, what are you talking about. She then went on to say how much she missed me and wanted to "Give our marriage a try with both feet in". She said things to me yesterday that I never thought I would hear:

"You used to tell me that I was acting like an alien had taken over my body. Well, you were right and looking back on the last year I cannot believe the things I did and said"

"I see you and I, 2 years from now, holding hands and walking on a beach. More in love than ever and knowing our relationship will never be vulnerable to anything like this again"

"Thank you for not letting go and for giving me a chance to come to my senses. You certainly had every right and reason to move on and it shows me how strong your love really is".

"I will never forgive myself for the choices I made and the pain I caused you".

There are more but I think you get the idea. However, even though she is clearly having a major shift in her emotions, she has still not agreed to total transparency. It has been a while since I asked for that but she knows it's a condition for me. She also has not stopped going to the fitness studio where she met her ap (who still teaches there). She goes at times when he is not there but knows how I feel about it.

My schedule is very full for the next 6 weeks and she knows it. I email her my forward calendar on a regular basis. There are a number of business trips as well as 2 personal trips with my friends. My GAL activities are in full force and I am loving it!

It is very emotional watching her "wake up" from this MLC as she is now calling it. So many nights I tried to accept that she was gone forever and I had no choice but to move on without her. What is even more interesting is watching her try to divorce-bust me! I can see her fear. She keeps asking me if I have met someone else. She sees that I am no longer suffering from depression and I am looking better than I have looked in 5 years. She sees that I am no longer focused on her. She is trying to act strong and display a take it or leave it attitude at times. For example, we have a date night scheduled this Friday at her request and she said yesterday that if I was really not sure about working on our marriage that we should just cancel Friday night. I responded by saying that I would like to have a pleasant, casual dinner with no relationship talk and that if she wanted something else then yes, we should cancel. I told her that I need more time to adjust to the new/old me. The non-depressed me. This past 18 months has been a nightmare and I am focused on engaging life again.

I really don't know what I want. I don't know if I can forgive her for abandoning me when I needed her most and for betraying me by having an affair. I will never forget the things she did or said to me while I was suffering so much. It feels very good to see her coming back to reality but I need to decide if I can forgive her and trust her again.



That ^^^^ is how it's done, folks. That is how you flip the whole "push-pull" thing on its head, and make the wayward spouse pursue YOU.

And exceptional job, OG, for remaining neutral until she is ready to offer you full NC and transparency. She may be very close to that, or she may NEVER offer it, but you are wise to not leap at her recently-less-foggy statements.

I wouldn't be shocked if she tried to initiate sex with you on your date night. Might want to think about how you're going to handle that.

Hang in there, and be ready to clearly state what you want and need when the time comes.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Originally Posted By: alpha99
Congratulations Onguard, this seems like excellent news.

It does seem from what you're saying that your W is coming to her senses. If you haven't asked for transparency in a while then I think it's time that you start laying out your conditions for a potential R, should that be what you want.


Disagree, Alpha. He needs to wait for her to ask the essential "What will it take?" question, or make a "I'll do anything!" statement.

She's close, but to repeat his boundaries now -- when she hasn't asked -- only weakens them.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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I bow to your superior wisdom Starksy smile


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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Originally Posted By: alpha99
I bow to your superior wisdom Starksy smile


Nah, I'm just old. smirk


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Yeah, OG!!!!!!!!! Standing ovation from this peanut gallery!!!

You are doing it EXACTLY right. I firmly stand behind Starsky and his words of wisdom and experience on waiting until W asks THE question: "What will it take?" THAT is when you have some capital to spend. I am SO glad you seem mentally prepared for this because it's so easy to budge a little when we're still vulnerable and our XWASs start showing signs of coming around. And as someone who's had to tell my fear to get lost to be able to flex a muscle or two, please hear me when I say: DO NOT BUDGE in the beginning stages, once W asks what it will take. Decide what you need, and don't settle for less than NC and a complete, firm transparency plan: all usernames/passwords and detailed cell-phone bills sent to you, etc. To me, the first steps felt like the hardest because I felt like - get this - I was violating my H's privacy and treating him like a child. I am now a year into piecing my M back together, and I am SO thankful I listened faithfully to my "old faithfuls" here and stuck to my convictions. Because, if I'm being honest, the first steps in piecing are actually the EASIEST parts of piecing. It gets hard, so make sure you create yourself a solid foundation built on your strength, honor and resolve.

I'm so, so happy for you, no matter how things go, because you're rocking YOU. Don't stop. (Get it! Get it!) (Sorry. I just got excited and had an old-school clubbin' moment.) laugh


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
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Onguard, I'm pleased to read about how your sitch is going - and I'm rooting for you. I'm reading and learning as the Vets seem to feel you are doing some sterling DBing here.

Keep up the good work my friend!

T :-)


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Hey OG what a turn around. You hear it so many times on this and other forums that when WAW see you moving on something pricks there conscience. They seem to finally see what they're losing.

I have no experience with R so I cant offer any advice other than tread carefully.
Starsky is right in that if your wife truly wants to work it out with you she should be offering to do what ever it takes.

You already know now you will be absolutely fine which ever way its goes. That is a good position to be in.

Good luck


Me:40 W:35
D:8
T:13 M:10
WAW: 7/14
PA Discovered: 1/15 at least 6 months
Moved out and moved on

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I should add here -- for OG, and for anyone else following along -- that it's imperative that you do NOT come across as mean, vindictive or in any way "punishing" by your reticence to jump at the wayward spouse's first pronouncements about being interested in the marriage again.

Instead, it should be an attitude of "Hmmm, I'm not sure HOW I feel about that anymore," and you should be upbeat and strong about it -- even a little friendly (like you would treat a close neighbor). Ideally, this attitude would come across NATURALLY, because you really ARE now -- after all your GAL and introspection and behavior changes and improvements -- unsure about whether or not you want to jump back in to a previously-dysfunctional relationship with your wife. But even if you do NOT naturally feel that way, it's important to "fake it until you make it" at this critical stage.

I've said it before, repeatedly, and I'll say it again here: letting the formerly (or possibly STILL) wayward spouse back into the marriage too easily is THE #1 mistake I see people make here.

#1.

Slow and steady, OG, with Strength and Honor.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Thank you all for your support and comments. It means a lot to me that you have followed my sitch and have been pulling for me the whole time. This past weekend we went to dinner and had a great time. We were out late and when we got home she was half dressed and brushing her teeth in the master bathroom. This is unusual because she has been using the guest room for over a year. Then she shut the door to the bedroom and basically attacked me. We ML for the first time in almost a year and then she fell asleep in my bed. In the morning I left early to workout and when I got home she was very affectionate and loving towards me. She said how good it felt to be in my arms again and how much she wanted us to build a new relationship together. I told her that I had a great night but that I need to take it one step at a time. Then she asked me "What do I have to do to convince you that I want us?" I said "You know my basic conditions that I would need before I could make any commitment. Full transparency and stop attending that spinning studio. However, I'm not ready for a full commitment today even if you were to agree to those conditions. I want us to take it slow and see if we can establish a connection. I love you and I will always love you but I have been through hell and I need some time to figure out what I really want. I need to determine if I can ever truly forgive you and trust you.

For the rest of the weekend she has acted like we were a couple again. She is hugging me and touching me a lot. She asked me what I want to do for our family trip this Summer. She asked me about events that we have been invited to with our former "couples" friends. I am being respectful, loving and positive with her. I have told her how good it feels to hear the things she has said to me. She has also continued to ask me if I am involved with any other women. She is clearly afraid of losing me.

She knows that I prefer our M to work. But she also knows that I have serious concerns about whether or not it can work. She knows I respect her and love her. She is a good person who made some horrible choices. She has admitted on multiple occasions that she was not herself and that it was a huge mistake that she wishes she could undo. My plan is to continue to live my life to the fullest. I am not making any decisions about my M until the time is right. I know it is a fine line that I am walking but I feel very secure with my course of action right now.


Me: 45 W: 44
M: 20 T: 31
S 20, D 13

W affair ended 5-13-14
W confessed 5-27-14
W wants to R 4-1-15; I'm not sure
Living in same house, separate beds
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Hi OG,

From your post it sounds like you got things just right. Congratulations on the turn around. Like you say, take it slow, be sure of what you want. It seems instant full recommittment is a dangerous short term fix. Have your wife meet your core conditions and be sure to praise her for the effort she puts in when meeting them. Now the hard work begins. Good luck!


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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