The gift of time . . .

[Joe1981]

Excellent. I'd try to focus this week in MC on H and validating his needs. If you have to give things you want H to work on, I'd suggest you start small. Pick something he'll be comfortable enough changing. He's probably not as far on his journey as you are, and he's the one who's not so sure about the marriage, so asking for big change is a bit much.

Maybe ask for more fun together? My IC mentioned that talking about the R is usually not as good as just sharing fun experiences.

If you get the sense he's ready to be reflective and make changes, you could go for something more tangible. I'm willing to bet he's not there yet though.

Just a thought.

[Elsa]

Thanks, Joe.

I definitely want to ask for more "fun" time. My H's biggest complaint is that there has been too much conflict in our R and it has made him anxious. His solution, via the S, was to limit our interactions so that he could avoid conflict as much as possible. Even the potential for conflict makes him uncomfortably anxious. The problem is that the S itself created a lot of conflict (or potential conflict) that was really unavoidable (discussions about money, childcare arrangements, etc), so while we interact about 1% as much as we did before, the majority of that time has been spent in contentious (or potentially contentious) conversations. There aren't many positive or even neutral interactions to balance it out.

H has been wary of more "dates" because he's afraid that I'll use them for R talk. But, I've yet to actually do that, and we haven't had any other conflict on our dates either. In addition, not having regular dates leads to me feeling neglected and, for lack of a better word, like a doormat (since H has asked me, repeatedly, to wait for him during this S), which makes it more likely that I'll initiate R talk, and then the cycle of anxiety repeats.

So my #1 "want" is to spend more time together having fun. My hope is that the MC will agree. My H likes to be challenged (just not by me!), so my hope is that the MC will encourage him to try this and see if it's helpful.

My other "want", at the moment, is to come to some kind of agreement about how to end contentious conversations without my H just shutting down and withdrawing. (I feel like there's a term for this -- "exiting conflict," maybe?) But that might be too much for the first session.

This is a new MC for us, but I got his name from the Marriage Friendly Therapists referral site. When I phone-screened him, he said that he will fight for my M as long as I want to, so he sounds like a good egg.

[Joe1981]

I'd avoid the 2nd want for now. That's something H has to come to. You can't force him to change.

[gan]

I second Joe's comment. Elsa, you and I both know that finding a way for our H to not shut down and withdraw would be MASSIVE. Easy does it for this first meeting with the MC. Preventing stonewalling can be a longer term goal for us. Good luck. I'm sure you'll do great.

[Elsa]

Well, I wasn't necessarily thinking of it in terms of changing H's behavior, but possibly my own -- how I can I stop the conversation before H feels like he needs to withdraw? -- but you're right, that's a big topic to tackle for the first session.

13 hours and counting . . .

[gan]

(Ha - I did include a sentence about learning how you could change your own behavior but then deleted it). I wonder if that is a conversation best had with an IC to see how far you/I can get. Please share some tips if you do go into that territory!

[Elsa]

I'm seeing my IC tomorrow morning so maybe I'll talk to her about it then.

Gah! I'm so nervous/excited I can't concentrate, but I have a ton of work to do. I really want to go get a pedicure and relax. Time will speed up at 3pm when I pick up D7 from school . . .

[Elsa]

I'm back. So much has happened in the past few days. The MC session went well, then we had a conversation that spiraled downward on the way home, followed by a good date the next day and a couple of good conversations yesterday and today.

I think, maybe, we are in piecing, or at least really close to it.

We both really liked the new marriage counselor. I let H do most of the talking, and he surprised in that he shared some things that he hadn't said to me before.

1. H said that he left not so much because of me or my behavior, but because he felt like he kept putting himself in a position to be hurt and he was mad at himself for letting that happen.

2. H admitted, after some prodding from the MC, that the separation is bad for him, and for D7. H said that he didn't want to say that before because he felt that it took away from my pain.

3. H admitted, again after some prodding from the MC, that he sees me as the "enemy", which is why it's so difficult for him to try to meet my needs right now. (Scary, but I'm glad it's out in the open.)

4. This is a small thing, but the MC prefaced an unconventional suggestion with the phrase, "I'm not saying that I'd recommend this, necessarily, . . ." and H interrupted and said, "Please, I'm willing to try anything." (In fact, now that I think about it, I think he may have even used the phrase "beginner's mind" -- H are you reading DB?)

So, action steps --

1. The MC wholeheartedly approved of my suggestion to date more.

2. H said that his primary concern is that he feels controlled. The MC came up with a "pause" phrase for H to use when he feels controlled, so that I'm aware of how he's feeling and can reconsider my words or behavior.

3. The MC asked me to contribute a similar concern for H to work on. Since the session had gone so well, I decided to ask for a safe "exit strategy" from conflict. The MC was very approving of this, and H responded well. Unfortunately, this was at the end of the session and we didn't have a chance to work out what the exit strategy would be, but the MC did set some guidelines for us.

So, H and I are meeting tomorrow to talk about how to implement the MC's suggestions. I will come back later and ask some questions, but feel free to give me some feedback in the meantime.

I'm looking forward to catching up with everyone else's threads -- Maybell, Claire, Ss, Ganb8te, Joe, Jacket and many others -- later tonight.

[Ss06]

Elsa!

all of this sounds so reasonable and realistic, no? I get the feeling you both really like your MC and he/she really seems to "get" you guys.

I love that you're meeting tomorrow to further work on the MC homework.

all of this just sounds so good.

I'm cheering you on!!!

[gan]

Wow, Elsa! That all sounds so positive. It's so great that a few more things are out in the open and that you've got a set of practical tools to work through some of the issues. What is the "pause" phrase you mention? I always thought H and I should have a code word that we could drop when one of us was getting distressed.