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Elsa Offline OP
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After 2 days of NC, H picked a fight with me at kid exchange this am. Interesting. I was too defensive in response but I apologized and he accepted it. He said that he sees I am trying. I told him that I know he's trying too, and he said thank you. He said that he will call the new MC next week and schedule our first appointment. He said we'll work on us, slowly but surely.

Patience, grasshopper.

Any suggestions for how to handle C? I know that I need to do a better job of listening and validating, but does that mean that I have to completely neglect my own needs for the time being? I can probably do that for a time, but in some ways I think my H will respond better if I am assertive -- he likes a strong woman and viewed me as emotionally "weak" pre-S. What do you think?


Me: 33 Him: 35
T: 13 M: 11
D7
BD, S: Jul 3rd, 2014
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I've seen counseling is the exception to putting your needs aside, because you have to be honest or it won't achieve anything.

It is a great opportunity to show compassionate listening and possibly some validation, though, so it's not like you'll revert to pre-DB behaviors.

Good luck!


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
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Elsa Offline OP
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Wow, I can't believe it's been a week since I posted an update!

This week was difficult for me. My GAL activities are becoming more sporadic now that school is starting back up and I have been lonely. On Thursday, I had a phone conversation with H that I can only describe as the low point for us since the S. I thought he was trying to change the status quo about something and I freaked out, which caused him to stonewall. We both reverted to our bad habits, and I was really worried that H was done after the call ended. H called and apologized the next morning, but I could tell that he was still upset.

However, we had lunch today and I think we're in a better place now. Even though we had some potentially contentious topics to discuss (finances and childcare arrangements), we were able to stay calm. At one point, he made reference to the "one in a million" chance that we won't get back together. When I used the same phrase in my response (active listening), he said, "I'd rather say 'one in a trillion' actually." So, I think he still has some hope! Also, he asked if we could ML tonight, which is the first time he's asked me for any kind of date since the S (all of our other dates have been initiated by me).

A few things did come up that I'd like your advice on --

1. He is willing to go to MC again but he thinks it's premature because we haven't made enough progress during the S. When I asked him what kind of progress he'd like to see before we go back to MC, he said that he is still "angry and resentful" for the conflict that existed pre-S. I asked him if thought that MC could help with that, and he said it's possible. When I offered to delay MC, he reiterated that he said would go (and kind of seemed upset that I was trying to suggest otherwise). I told him that the goal of MC doesn't have to be to work on our R (and I do think it would help us manage the S better either way, although I didn't say that to H). Do you think it would be detrimental to go now, if H is willing but has some reservations?

2. H mentioned that he has been wrestling with the notion of stonewalling v. enforcing his personal boundaries. He said that he understands that stonewalling is not good for us, but wonders what he is supposed to do when he's just DONE with a particular conversation. I just listened and said that it helps me to know that he is thinking about these things. I realize this is more of a piecing question than a DBing question, but I'm curious to hear what you think.


Me: 33 Him: 35
T: 13 M: 11
D7
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Elsa Offline OP
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Bumping this up. Ganb8te, thanks again for your reply, which was lost during the board shutdown.

On Wednesday night, I spoke briefly to my H. He scheduled a MC appointment for us with the new C. The appointment is next week. I asked H if he is now ready to work on the M. He said, "I don't think so. I just don't think that our interactions have changed enough for me to heal. I know that must sound crazy to you, but that's how I feel." He acknowledged that we have had very little conflict during the S, but he still anxious that conflict will erupt at any moment. (To which I want to say: That's YOUR problem, not mine, and oh by the way, why did you never go to IC as you promised you would. Of course, I did not say this.)

Instead, I asked him what he would need to feel ready, and he said, "Space and time." So, I'm going to go completely dark for the next week (except for the necessary exchanges re: D7). It's going to be difficult, but I'm committed to doing it. (Even though, as I said in Ganb8te's thread, my H has said that he feels less anxious after he talks to me, and I'm skeptical that space and time will actually help him feel better.)

I finally asked him if he has intended for our S to be therapeutic. He asked what I meant by that, and I said, "That the S is a time for you to heal, and then you want to come back to the M." He said yes, that's what he's wanted all along.

In other news, I made a new friend and I joined a S/D support group. I'm really going to be working on PMA and GAL over the next week!


Me: 33 Him: 35
T: 13 M: 11
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Elsa Offline OP
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Day 3 of NC and I think I'm finally realizing why it's so hard for me. I only withdraw when I'm REALLY angry (and I don't get REALLY angry very often, with anyone). I think I've been projecting on my H and assuming that he must be REALLY angry, when really, withdrawing is just his natural coping mechanism for stress. He is much more introverted than me in that respect. I need to work on accepting that and not assuming that lack of contact means that he's angry and completely given up on the R.

Of course, NC is not completely NC because we still have to talk about D7 and other logistics. But, our interactions have been very limited, without any conflict or R talk. MC session on Tuesday and then dinner together on Wednesday.


Me: 33 Him: 35
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Thanks for stopping by my thread, Elsa. There do seem to be a lot of commonalities in our R.

I had the same revelation about 1-2 months pre-BD re H's withdrawal being his natural coping mechanism….which let to the revelation that my way of coping is the exact opposite (I turn to him to talk it out and get a hug) unless I am super angry in which case I also withdraw….and the final revelation that I would try to make up using the approach I needed (pursue him) and not what he needed (time to work it through himself).

Have you read Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus? Very annoying book in many ways but it did help me recognize this dynamic. And since I hadn't found DB at the time, it was the reason why I did try to back off and let him withdraw after BD rather than doing my usual (though I was not always able to stop myself).


H 37 Me 36
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Elsa,
Just read the whole thread, your situation is full of promise.

My advice, given your husband's actions and words is to be very consistent in avoiding any and all initiation of R talk. This is what's giving him anxiety, leads to most of your conflict, and gets you out of your best self.

My IC told me on Thursday that sometimes talking about the R is the worst thing you can do. I'd say, if he brings it up, validate his expressed needs and concerns, but hold off for now on yours. Give him that breathing room. There's a big 180 for you.

You've essentially been in piecing mode this whole time because, while your H may say he's not working on your M, he's staying connected w/ you, so he's working on the M. Do the 180s that he needs to see from you to feel better about your M, then be patient for him to believe the change.

Focus on being the W only a fool would leave. Have fun on your dates. Enjoy the affection he shows (most of us would give our right arms for that much positive from our S). Read the 5 Love Languages if you haven't and try your best to love him in the way he needs, when the opportunity presents itself.

Finally, I'd suggest you learn to be OK with being in limbo for the foreseeable future. He needs time and limbo w/ hugs, kissing and ML beats the hell that is the alternative.

Patience may be the most important thing in the world for you now. Do more of what works and stay out of the cheese less tunnels.


Me: 34 W:33
T: 10 M: 6
S: 6 D: 5
BD: 5/14
Still together(ish)
Not giving up: 7/14
D talk has slowed, a lot.
Gradually working on things together. Still separate bedrooms.
Slow and Steady wins the race.
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Elsa Offline OP
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Thank you both for stopping by!

G, I am totally like you during conflict -- I need to talk it out and then I need a hug! I've not read the original Mars/Venus book but I have been reading the "Together Forever" edition. I don't know that I buy into the notion entirely but a lot of things in the book have really resonated with me. The part about men viewing feelings as facts and women viewing them as temporary, subjective expressions -- why yes, that would be my H and me, to a T.

Joe, I appreciate your advice. I agree, I have to avoid R talk. Hopefully, MC will help because I will have an "approved" outlet for it moving forward.

It's funny what you say about piecing -- I've wondered whether we've been in it this whole time. I suppose I was waiting for him to agree to work on the M, but you're right -- his actions demonstrate that he is, even if he doesn't verbalize it that way.

I haven't read 5LL, but we both took the online quiz a while back and I know he was pretty evenly divided between Acts and Gifts. When we were at lunch last week, I said I had something I needed to give him and jokingly told him, "It's a mix tape!" He seemed genuinely happy at the thought and disappointed when I said I was only kidding. (In reality, I was giving him a book with an exercise in it that our former MC had recommended.) But it did make me wonder -- should I be trying to speak his LL or would that be seen as pursuit at this point?


Me: 33 Him: 35
T: 13 M: 11
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Ok, my W has the same two LL. I think you can give gifts in a way that isn't pursuing. Think about little things he likes. Not the big, obvious, "I'm trying to change your mind," kind of gifts. Just the, hey I though about you when I was at the store kind.

Acts of service...harder if you rent, but take care of anything you can that lightens his load but doesn't appear desperate. Read 5LL, it'll give you more insight, and it's an easy read.

You got this. Be patient.


Me: 34 W:33
T: 10 M: 6
S: 6 D: 5
BD: 5/14
Still together(ish)
Not giving up: 7/14
D talk has slowed, a lot.
Gradually working on things together. Still separate bedrooms.
Slow and Steady wins the race.
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Elsa Offline OP
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Thanks again, Joe. Acts of service is hard when we're not living together, I think. When he was here, I was trying to do "his" chores -- taking out the trash, walking the dogs, etc -- more often. But when he's at his own place, it's hard to find things to do for him.

I did give him a "win" this week, in that I'm going to let him come over and watch D7 when I have a meeting on Thursday instead of hiring a babysitter. It's something that he's asked to do, and this week it makes sense for me to use the sitter on a different night, so I offered Thursday to him instead, which he seemed to appreciate.

Of course, offering him Thursday was predicated on the idea that we would have MC on Thursday before my meeting. When I called him to talk about childcare, he said that slot was taken and we'd have to choose another time. We agreed on Tuesday night instead (hey, it's sooner -- even better!). I said, "Can I count on that time?" -- meaning that H will call the MC back and also arrange for childcare -- and he said yes.

Then I got to thinking today . . .

That conversation with H happened on Saturday. It's a holiday weekend and the MC's office is almost certainly closed today. What if H waits until Tuesday morning to call back, and the MC isn't available anymore? I realized how much I've been depending on this appointment to get me through the weekend.

Not to mention, my H is a huge procrastinator, and I don't get the sense that he puts the same amount of urgency on this appt that I do . . .

So, I texted H a friendly, "Hi! Just wanted to see if you've confirmed our appt" message. Thankfully, he replied that we are confirmed for Tuesday. WHEW!

So, a time when I should have trusted my H, but didn't. I'm going to file this under "Reasons to Believe That He Has the Power to Change" for now.

Happy Labor Day, everyone!


Me: 33 Him: 35
T: 13 M: 11
D7
BD, S: Jul 3rd, 2014
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