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Hi, All,

I've been lurking for a while, trying to learn everything I can before suiting-up and jumping into the trenches. I have done some homework; read DB, DR, Conway's MiMLC, I Don't Want to Talk About It, and at least 4-5 other books on depression and MLC listed here.

I feel like I know so many of you already, and I would like to begin with a big "virtual hug" to all posters for sharing your stories and advice, which has been instrumental in helping me sort through the initial chaos, and in getting my emotions to a manageable level. Thank you for generously sharing your time, experience, and wisdom to help educate yet another "lost" LBS.

I'll post the history of my sitch soon, in snack-sized posts. It is pretty long. None of the history is any more, or any less earth-shattering than anyone else's. Same stuff, different MLCer, really. But I have yet to find another LBS on the board with some of the special circumstances I have.

Before I knew what was happening with H, I of course, did all the wrong things, (beg, cry, promise, tell him how I have changed) and got the blaming venom spew. After learning not to argue, and to instead, validate H's emotions, it was like magic! I froze in disbelief at the instant shift in his behavior toward me. Things have been very distant, but civil now for 3 months. H became a nice-MLCer, at least to me. Monster has now transferred away from me, and onto OW as well as H 2 adult kids, from what I hear.

I created lists from memory and old emails, of H complaints about me. I determined the possible validity, and most of them had some truth, but weren't out of the ordinary in a M and definitely fixable. So I fixed and changed all I could. Some were ridiculous, like he hated that I had pores on my nose.... (Wth? And he graciously stayed married to me with such a hideous issue? So noble of him.) Still working on lots, but huge strides and awareness of my ew, stupid mistakes and insecurities coming out in unflattering behavior. Uncomfortable to face traits in myself that I despise in others... But, yup. Plenty of room for improvement.

I stay busy. I work full-time, take care of my 4- teenagers from previous M (minimally, as they are very independent and responsible), and I read a lot. Kids and I have been going to a new, wonderful church, I'm keeping kids involved in their activities, and I have been working with a personal trainer since S (I've lost a ton of weight, I'm healthy, and I feel great and look pretty dang cute:).) Kids and I all go to a C.

My DB-no-no is that I have a very difficult time going days without hearing from him, and giving him the space he probably needs.

Although, he has never told me to back off (good or bad, idk?). I'm staying dark, but I do tend to initiate contact with H about half the time. We only communicate by text, short, factual exchanges. I only see him if there is property to exchange, or papers to sign (no D filed, just bills etc.). All communication is business related. No R talk, and I have done well at working to build a consistent presence of calm, non-judgement, validation, STFU, and listening (all 180's for me!).

My immediate need and humble request, is for some guidance in detaching. Although I stay busy and I'm starting to GAL, I struggle with the fear that getting too far out of his way will cause him to permanently shut the doors on us. Logically, and historically from other posters, this is not a fear that tends to become a reality in most sitches. But H has done this in his past with other things. Just flipped a switch and then done.

I'm still in withdrawal from a relationship that used to include a constant communication throughout the day, out of love, affection, and respect (and ok, yes...yes, co-dependence). Now, almost nothing. I sometimes feel like he died. We used to have sweet text exchanges all the time. We ALWAYS knew where each other was, and we were very respectful to communicate when we were leaving somewhere, and other "fyi" type exchanges.

Yeah.... We were "that "couple, like Raine, all of our friends and family envied our friendship and our M. (See what I did there.... I just went ahead and compared us to a brilliant DBer who got the results I'm hoping to achieve. wink

I have read books on detachment and co-dependence, and I feel as though I have a good grip on the concepts overall. I'll go for days feeling like a confident warrior, "I totally got this." And then, another day, seemingly out of nowhere, I'll breakdown and feel hopeless, panicky, needy, tempted to text or call but I don't. Well, not always. I have been guilty of texting him, with the lame excuse of checking on a house matter, or bills. I could have waited for him to reach out first, and as I mentioned, he does initiate about half the time. But I am clinging to a R that no longer exists, and I think of H constantly.

I know it's not good for me to think so much and miss him so much, and revisit fun memories in my mind, but I do it anyway. Hmmmm... Knowing it's bad for me but doing it anyway.... I sound like an MLCer now!!! AAAGGHHH.

Losing it. Well, technically I lost it. I lost our marriage. It's dead. I'm grieving. I'm lonesome. No dating for me, tho. Zero interest. Plus that little fact that I'm still married, and would like to continue this status.

OW is neither a threat, nor a focus to me. At first, yeah, but I learned quickly on dealing with this bandaid effect. She's textbook, although older by 4 years. It only bothers me that he has OW because of the distraction she is from H realizing his own internal issues, but I don't believe they will ride off into the sunset. They do spend all their free time together because H is afraid to be alone. Not officially living together, but spending the night most nights. My guess is things have gotten super co-dependent between them and she will not permit him contacting me in her presence. This is a pattern. I noticed that he only texts me when he's at work.

I need an MLC-Rollercoasterectomy. How to detach from so many H thoughts?

Anyone.....?
Anyone....?
Bueller?
Bueller.....

I finally submit my sitch, in an attempt to come out of denial. It really was my happy place smile.


M44, H44, both M before
M4 yrs, T6
BD 7/13 ILYB something isn't right with me
H att suicide 2/14
S 4/14
OW disc 5/14
D final 4/15
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Welcome to the worst best place there is. You will "meet" some incredible people here.

Shining, I like your style. The best way for us to help you is for you to be as honest as you can be.

So, you are doing a bit of mindreading regarding your h. Best not to do that, right?

In the world of MLC, you are still early into this. I always say, you feel how you feel. There are no wrong feelings.

Detaching is a really hard thing to get your mind around. It is a mindset. It is you living your life regardless of what he is saying or doing. It takes time to get there.

You will hear us talk about letting him go. That goes along with detaching. It means you are allowing him to walk his journey. That is the ultimate gift of love. It means you are hearing what he is saying....that he doesnt want to be married right now. You dont have to like it, but, you do have to hear it and live accordingly.

I know that it seems counterintuitive. You think if you dont remain in the forefront of his mind, he will move further away. But the truth is, that he needs to figure himself out without interference from you. In his mind, he is deeply unhappy and you and the marriage are the reasons why.

So, everytime you reach out to him, he is thinking, she isnt hearing me.

The best thing you can do is to allow him to figure out his path. The hope is that he will realize that it wasnt you that was making him unhappy because you arent even around. That can begin his looking inward.

Can you give us an idea of what his complaints were?

Keep working on you. Keep moving forward. Try your best to allow him to figure himself out.

You are doing great. Keep going.


Last edited by uRworthy; 07/28/14 09:24 PM.
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I am embarrassed by the length of this...

H has been depressed for 4-5 years, and on AD. MLC signs for years, but I had no clue MLC was a real "thing" until a few months ago. After over a year of researching depression, troubled marriages, and other self help books, the light finally came on. I didn't know MLC could be this painful, destructive, and serious. Eyes wide open now. If he isn't a classic MLC, I don't know what is.

H is youngest of 3 boys. H parents D when he was 5. Dad was WAS, OW (his secretary), and still married to her. They had 2 more kids. H stayed with mom, who remarried a very strict and unemotional man. He was traditional, non validating, too hard on them, mean at times... Mom was loving, but not attentive.

H depression started in 2009. We had been dating for a year, but still living apart. I had not met his kids yet. H had primary custody of them since they were 2 & 4, but they opted for Hxw after about 10 years. Long story short, H had rules, Hxw didn't. Teens don't like rules. Hxw saw an opportunity, and convinced (bribed) kids that grass would be greener with her, and in 2009 they agreed to move in with party-mom, an hour away (this mistake turned out disastrous, more later). They cleaned out rooms and filed false charges against H to make excuse for leaving (per Hxw's idea), all while H was at work. My state allows kids to choose custody at 13, so H's L said don't bother fighting it. H was devastated, he completely collapsed, grieved hard for months, like a death. He said he hadn't cried like that since he was a child (hmmmm). It was torture. He said he felt so betrayed, and he felt like a total failure as a Dad. His kids were alienated from extended family and H, and didn't speak to any of them for almost 2 years. I believe this was his "tragic event".

My kids had just met H in 2009, loved him immediately. We M in 2010, bought a big house, with plenty room in hopes H kids might come back. H AD meds appeared to be working, we saw no severe signs of depression, and he said he felt good. I thought we had a great marriage, family meshed well, we took trips, played games, went to kids' activities, laughed a lot, close R with extended family, seemed to be a normal and happy life.

FF to spring 2012. SS18 at the time, 2 months from graduating HS. SS18 told us big probs at Hxw going on for months (physical and verbal abuse, diff men in and out, cops called freq, heavy binge drinking, drugs, etc). He wanted out. We all talked and agreed to rearrange whatever we could to make him welcome. Helped SS18 get a car, he drove to school an hour away to finish and grad. SD16 then, stayed with Hxw, but eventually left and stayed at friends' houses until she graduated.

MEANWHILE:
1st missed MLC cliche clue: H bought motorcycle, 2012.

AND NOW BACK TO US:
Summer of 2012, we discovered SS had probs of his own. Learning disability, socially challenged and withdrawn, anger issues, odd behavior. We found IC and govt program to help with SS18 future.

Same summer, H started acting irrational. It was as if the in-H-face realization of H son not being everything H hoped for, was too much for H to accept. Couldn't have disagreements or discussions like before without H turning nasty. Very blaming, defensive, and completely refused to correct any misbehavior of SS, 19 now. BD#1. "ILY, but Idk if we can be together." "Something isn't right". Next day, I sent him a long apologetic email, and talked him back.

MEANWHILE:
H Motorcycle accident 7/12. No major injury. Replaced motorcycle with new motorcycle. Only rode a few times. "Too scared to ride", "didn't feel right", "wasn't fun anymore". Sold motorcycle.

2nd missed MLC cliche clue: Summer 2013, H bought red sports car. Not even kidding. Red. And I still missed it. I wanted H to have whatever he wanted. I wanted H happy. H believed red sports car=happy. Who am I to judge? Ugh.

3 months later, red car became not so fun. "Can't see behind me." "Uses too much gas". Sold red sports car, bought hybrid sedan. H chose it, was not thrilled, but happy about saving money on gas.

AND NOW BACK TO R:
Over time, fights became more frequent and escalated. Then BD#2 in 01/14, big fight, and H took SS, now 20, to stay with H several nights in motel to get away from me. Came back, agreed to MC, but was still acting bizarre. H didn't look right, didn't talk like normal H. We went to 2 sessions. We had not gotten very deep into our R at MC, just uncomfortable. Deep breath.....

2/14 H was flipping out, yelling crazy things, fighting, then we didn't speak for 3 days. 3rd day, H acting crazy. Spewing cruel, and somewhat intelligible texts to me, and his family. H cut me off of our CC, cut off my kids' and my cell phone service, and threatened to cut off car insurance, and more. I had wifi at work, and was able to contact his family to clue them in that something was very wrong. I knew I would need to be able to contact kids, so I left work to get phone service turned back on with new separate account. Went back to work, and 2 hours later, I received an email from H. It was a suicide letter, subject line read, "goodbye". I ran out of my office, called 911 from parking lot, and started driving home. Also called H family. S17 arrived before I got there, and panicked as he saw the flashing lights and emergency vehicles. Officers asked S17 to go in and check on H. H was in bed on his back. Eyes closed, open pill bottles and booze on nightstand. Cops and medics came in, were able to get H awake but groggy, and took him to hospital by ambulance.

H spent 3 days at rehab, lots of tears, long days of counseling, begging our forgiveness, saying he hit rock bottom. Many apologies to everyone. He couldn't believe what he had done, and had no memory of most of it. Shocked to find out he actually left work several times in the past days, and didn't remember any of that either. He was taught in rehab, to take responsibility for himself, and own his actions. This was not a habit for H. I was so encouraged. He told me and the kids this was not our fault. He promised to get help, and this was required as part of his discharge. The day before he was released, he said he "realized" he hadn't been taking his AD for several days before the episode. He said he wasn't excusing his behavior (yeah, right) but he really believed that was the cause of the fog and his irrational behavior. After H got out, and went to his psychiatrist, H was convinced he didn't "really" have a problem, he's not suicidal, and this whole thing was all because he missed several doses of his AD. (The number of missed medicine days kept changing, depending on to whom he was telling the story.)

We went back to MC twice, since what was deemed, "The February Incident". H was not interested in a solution. H was only interested in blaming me and my kids for pretty much every problem that has ever occurred since the dawn of time. I couldn't believe my ears. I was counting on the MC to help us out of a vicious cycle, work on communicating and respecting each other, and instead, the conversation became an attack. We were so far off.....So, I did what any pre-DBer would do, and I yelled back! Yeah! I'll show him! This will work because C and H will see how right I am! Not so much. I looked like an idiot. The C called me out on my ridiculousness, and I got offended. I felt so alone. How does no one else see what I see? Am I crazy? Is it me? It must be me. I was stunned in silence, and I just shut down not knowing what to say anymore. I quietly walked out of C. This was later used against me, but all you old-timers saw that coming:).

I NOW know to recognize visits from: Mr. Projection, Sir Blame, Major Venom Spew, Monsieur Monster-Face, Seņor Shark-Eyes, and all the other new Coping-Mechanism-Super-Friends my H has introduced to me. Deep breath.....

FF to 4/14. Bullet points, because by now, it's the same sheez, different MLCer.
Fights. Blame. Distance. Anger. Spew. The whole gang of Super-Friends showed up.

H took on a "H & SS20 against the world" attitude. SS20 now saw my kids and me as the enemy. SS20 had previously displayed rage in front of kids and me, and over time it got worse, and it was allowed by H.

MEANWHILE:
3rd missed MLC clue: My car engine blew up. H bought brand new truck of his dreams. Because I needed a new car. So he picked one for himself (Me, me, me, me). Gave hybrid to me. See what he did there? Not complaining, I was just as happy. It's a car and I love it. But more than that, a missed clue.

THE NEXT DAY:
H told me he wanted to play with his new truck, learn dashboard features, etc. I sent H text from inside house, that I'll take D13 to soccer and go to grocery store (so he can keep playing with toys). H spewed!! Huh? Wait, now FAVORS make H angry? H said I left without him and H wanted to shop (I can't read his mind, so we should separate. That comes later, too). I offered to turn back, but that wasn't good enough, because H wanted to be mad. H isolated himself in his room the rest of the night.

The rest I'll shorten with bullet points: S17 and I talking late at night in living room, SS20 walks in, says something rude, I called him out on his disrespectful comment, SS20 got worse, started cursing and name-calling, threatening, breaking things, cocked fist back toward my son... H came out of room.

In a normal world....a H would defend W and S17, and address bad behavior of SS20.

In MLC land.... Fights. Blame. Distance. Anger. Spew. The whole Super-Friend gang showed up again.

H told me to leave. I refused. I told H to leave. H refused. Slept in same bed as far apart as possible.

Next day, my kids were scared and tense. We had been in a similar sitch before, and I recognized the despair in their faces. They didn't feel safe. Horrible thing to live, and hear from your kids. Deep breath.... I bought locks for their BR doors.

I talked to H (tried) and he refused to leave. I explained we didn't feel safe. H didn't care. Laughed at me, actually. I consulted with my C, and our family Dr., who knew all of us and the sitch. They agreed in this case, kids and I need to be safe, and I looked for an apartment. H and I didn't talk at all.

The cycle had to stop. We moved 10 days later. It was hard. I cried. H cried. H said he thought he would be ok being there while we moved, but he couldn't do it. H left.

We went once more to MC. Drove separately, met there. I told H I believed we could get through this. But we needed time apart to cool off. Put the fires out and remove the stressors so we can rebuild our R. H told me and C that "W has to fix herself. Then we'll see. Too much damage has been done. Horrible, permanent damage." And then he listed things that I had to change, including telling everyone of our friends and family that HE WAS NOT THE PROBLEM, I WAS. What? What did that mean? He made so many ridiculous demands that didn't even make sense. I cried. We left. Confused and hopeless.

For weeks, H wouldn't respond to texts, calls, or anything. He was rude. He was demanding and mean. I still didn't know what I was dealing with. I sent a message to an old mutual friend that works with H. I said things were so strange, didn't make sense, and asked if he knew if H had OW. Friend said not that he has seen. Then, two days later, a message from that work friend. OW confirmed. I went crazy (Still pre-DB). Friend said H took the day off and took OW on our boat for the day. I went to the house. Saw all of their things. OW things. In MY closet. On MY nightstand. In MY BED. The. Ultimate. F. U. They did it in my bed. He unplugged one woman, and plugged in a new one. Only she's older, so that's weird... (Old timers? Any clue on the reason for an older model?). Oh, funny, tho, H never wore cologne. Saw Ed Hardy on his sink...sniff... Aahhh, Eau de MLC.

I obsessed about her for about 6 weeks. Typical lowlife parasite. But, I surprisingly got over that, and relatively quickly. The initial hurt was like nothing I've ever felt in my life. But now I completely see her as the messed up bandaid/drug of choice/escape he uses her for. I am not threatened in the least.

But, H is now being medicated by infatuation, thus delaying any reconnection. I took a huge step back, and found this forum. Darn near saved my life.

So there it is, in a nutshell.

What now? Praying. Detaching. I'm GAL. Taking care of kids. This forced "break" is not something I would wish on my worst enemy.

But I'm grateful for the lessons I've learned so far.


M44, H44, both M before
M4 yrs, T6
BD 7/13 ILYB something isn't right with me
H att suicide 2/14
S 4/14
OW disc 5/14
D final 4/15
Joined: Jun 2014
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Thank you, uR. You're one sharp cookie.

Your perception is spot-on about me with the mind reading. I do tend to assume I know things I couldn't possibly. This is a personal struggle for me, and it's on my (long and forever-growing) list of self-improvement.

H complaints about me were mainly that I was "against SS20". I would try to explain that I was never against SS20, but I didn't like the behaviors he had toward me and the kids. I was upset that H allowed it. We rarely argued about anything, but when we did, it was almost always about SS.

H told me I didn't discipline and follow through on my kids' chores enough, I allowed my S17 to bully everyone and that it bothered H that S17 was so much like my xh (whom H has never met). H was a stickler for perfection when it came to the kids' chores. He was not this way when his kids lived with him, as I had visited that house and it was....less than spotless. I would never say anything, but found it odd when the expectations were vastly different years later when it was a different household.

H felt (recently) that he did too much for us. That he was just a paycheck. He cooked dinner most days, since he was home by 4:00 and I, not until 5:30. H wanted to have dinner early, so H cooked. He didn't complain about this at all until a year ago.

There is truth to all of the above, and I'm sure there are more things that will come to mind, and I'll add them later.


M44, H44, both M before
M4 yrs, T6
BD 7/13 ILYB something isn't right with me
H att suicide 2/14
S 4/14
OW disc 5/14
D final 4/15
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Hi Shining ~

Wow, I just read your post. You have been through so much. No need to feel embarrassed or apologize for a long post smile

I have been lucky in the sense that my h was not abusive nor exceptionally crazy. Hopefully some people here who were or are in a similar situation can come by with advice.

A few thoughts...

- if it's MLC, MC is useless. The MLCer is not one to admit wrongdoing, and you WILL get blamed for everything and anything. If you think it would help you, going to an IC may be a good idea.

- oh, the ow! I like to tell new people here to do an internet search for "affairing down". It is truly enlightening. No big shock that your h didn't leave you for the latest SI swimsuit model. I remember someone telling me that ow isn't special, just convenient. If it wasn't her, it would have been somebody else. Very, very true.

- unfortunately, MLC affairs take a LONG time to run their course. That obsession is so powerful, the escape from reality incredibly addictive. In the long run though, most affairs don't last. It's a relationship built on secrecy, lies, and deceit. The rose- colored glasses come off eventually - then, look out! Lol!

- when he is spewing, walk away, hang up phone, don't respond. It only feeds into his behavior. MLCers have a ton of anger, and guess who gets to be the lucky recipient of all that anger? BINGO!

It really isn't about you.

Keep up the good work, keep GALing, living your life. Focus on you and the kids. Keep posting.

Leave him in la la land smile


Bomb January 2012 - doesn't feel the same about me

~ "There is nothing love cannot face; there is no limit to its faith, hope, and endurance."
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Shining,
Our BDs are the exact same- #1 and #2!! So sorry we're here.

My H is very mild compared to yours- OW is very unattractive, 2 years older than me and someone he used to complain about regularly...everything from her looks to her personality. They are most definitely not a threat!!

Your first post resonates with me so much! I, also need to detach! It seems the more I want to, the less I am! Let me know if you figure out how to get there! wink

Last thing: your diner "issue"... SAME HERE!! He used to love cooking, and some point along the way it became a burden and I had no clue.

I'm rooting for ya!!


Me: 39
H: 45
Second marriage for both
H left 12/2013
M:4 T:5.5
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It's is all really script.

I could have wrote most if that.
It's wasn't a motor bike but a v8 luxury family sedan. It want a hybrid car but a roof top 4x4 tent. His s24 was used as an excuse to spend $ and h said my s16 was deliberately manipulating our m!

Yes I feel he just changed the younger woman for a much older model in the passenger seat.

I know all the characters, and yes even tho they say done finished and to use my h quote
" I did all my grieving for the old relationship in the relationship"

"I was sucidal for a long time, but now I'm fine" read new ow fantasy life

Welcome to clique land, it's boggling what they say, just nod and validate. Laugh later as it does get really funny once your detached. Well I find I can feel amusement.


M 46 h54
Both married before
T 11y
Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads!
Ms 18 hs 26
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Shining - WOW. Just wow. You have been through a great deal. And I think you are doing very well. I can't remember who, but someone on this board said I had a 'mild' MLC'r, which I agree with. I guess I'm grateful for that, and while he is not playing with a full deck, he still somehow seems to have moments of lucidity.

Like you, I read an awful lot (an entire grocery bag of books I recently donated to the library with the exception of 2 or 3). I have almost completely given up TV and read instead. I missed MLC clues too, plenty of them. He wanted a convertible (we even went and looked at a red one) for quite a while. He never did buy one, though. He is practical, and frugal, like me. And I think he talked himself out of it somehow. And it finally dawned on me what event started the MLC - about 6 years ago. He had emergency surgery and almost died at the age of 50. I'm convinced this started everything rolling, but I didn't put two and two together until very recently.

There was also much truth to my H's complaints, but there is only so much we can do. We can only control what we do and think. The rest is out of our hands. The most valuable lessons I've learned in past year are (1) go with the flow - roll with it, whatever 'it' is, and (2) I have my faults but I did not cause the demise of our marriage - WE did - both of us, so I do not take the blame for everything and (3) I no longer believe everything he said about me at bomb drop. I believed every word initially, but I am really 'good' with myself as I am now. This was a huge growth period for me, as it seems to have been for you too. Getting out and making your own life is critical. I have an entirely new life without him. So I am now prepared for whatever comes my way. You seem well on your way to that too. Then, if D does happen down the road, you will not fall apart. In the meantime, GAL. So important. And if you can still manage to be friendly to him, DO it. I am beginning to think I am past that now, and it's like pulling teeth to have a friendly conversation. (I'm polite, but offer little info about my life now.) Hang in there, and keep posting. It's therapeutic!


Me 53, XH 57
M 20 (+1.5) years, no kids
BD June '13
H moved out July '13
Confirmed long-suspected PA Feb '14
H filed for D Nov. '14
D March '15
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Shining, it's important to only own your own stuff. So, let go of not seeing the signs of MLC. Many people not in one buy motorcycles and trucks.

My friend, TVS, is right. MC does not work with MLC. At least not at this point. Maybe way down the road.

In his mind, he was extremely unhappy. So, he lashed out at the person closest to him. It's what they do. It's the easiest fix in their mind.

They often affair way down. They pick someone really screwed up that they feel they can save. Makes them feel better about themselves...or so they think.

You have been through a lot. I am glad you got you and your kids safe.

The thing about dbing is that is saves you and sometimes, it saves marriages. It is, in my opinion, the best shot at that.

It helps to remember that this is a marathon, not a sprint. Dealing with an MLCer isnt for the faint of heart.

So, keep looking within and try to figure out how to be your best self....for you. Your changes have to be real or he will see right through them.

It's a good idea to get a roadmap together on how you want to walk this. I had some things that were important to me. Having the roadmap helped keep me on track.

I knew that when I looked back on this time, I wanted to be able to see that I had acted with dignity. I wanted to be sure to cause no harm to the relationship between my son and his dad. I tried each day to be the person I wanted to be. Some days I made it, some I didnt. But that was always the goal.

He needs to walk this on his own. It's the best shot he has of coming out the other side. He has to get himself strong to face his demons. He cant do that if he is looking over his shoulder at you.

He has asked for space....give it to him. He knows where you are.

Let every interaction be a positive one. Look good, be positive, head high.

You have been doing some good introspection. Keep digging deep. You want to be good and strong. So that if he looks to you in the future, you can decide what you want from a place of strength.

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Takeavow,
Thank you for your insightful thoughts. As soon as I figured out it is likely MLC, I read that MC is not helpful, and often can do more harm than good. We went the one time after S, but I haven't brought it up since. Luckily, my MC seems to understand MLC and has experience with couples working to reconcile afterward.

The spewing has stopped toward me, for the most part. H adult kids now live with him (temporarily, as we are selling the house). They see the crazy and receive the spew. OW gets spew and yelled at, too, according to H kids.

Yes, SS20 and SD19 are actually reaching out to me now! (Could this GET any crazier? Woah... I felt a 2x4 of "just wait" and "don't even ask". Ouch. )

There has been drama at the house, and H kids have texted me because they don't understand what's going on with H. They call him "psycho". I learned early on, don't try to explain MLC to them, or anyone, really. Since they know about H suicide attempt and depression, it seems to be enough to attribute H behavior toward that.

H also has very low T, which is new. H just found out in May, after a mutual friend suggested he get tested (mutual friend very disturbed by H behavior). H told me about his treatments, which are pellets. Yeah, he's a mess.

Artsy,
Yes, isn't it scary the similarities? We can definitely compare notes. I'm following you closely, Artsy, and LOVE your screen name, btw.

Detaching....aahhhh, the elusive skill of the LBS Masters.....

If, and when, I discover the answer, I'll share how-to if you will!

Maybe it's like in the movie "Limitless" when Bradley Cooper's character takes some pill and suddenly knows everything! ....I digress. Wishful thinking.


GG,
Haha, YES!! Unplug one symptom (motorcycle, car, w), insert another! How are they all the same, but different? And the fact there is not more of a universal awareness of this crisis is a mystery to me, especially with so many here.

Oh, wow....The "I did all my grieving...." H said that, too! I didn't think I wrote about that, so I'm a little freaked out to learn yours said the same! My H also added that I am a little bit behind him, that I'm where he was 4 months ago in the acceptance of our split.... Ummm, I haven't accepted it, dear. (No, I didn't say out loud)

And yes, GG, I do laugh already. I have to laugh. It's not to be disrespectful of anyone in pain. I believe for me, it is truly a coping mechanism. It was handed down to me by my own dad.... He found humor everywhere.


M44, H44, both M before
M4 yrs, T6
BD 7/13 ILYB something isn't right with me
H att suicide 2/14
S 4/14
OW disc 5/14
D final 4/15
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Quote:
So I fixed and changed all I could. Some were ridiculous, like he hated that I had pores on my nose.... (Wth? And he graciously stayed married to me with such a hideous issue? So noble of him.)


Lolol - I've heard a lot of ridiculous WAS complaints, but this is a good one! (My ex told me I "walked too heavy" - and worse yet, that I had deliberately taught our daughter to walk too heavy!!!)

SO - first things first - your priority right now needs to be YOUR KIDS and yourself. They are going through considerable upheaval due to your choice of a husband, they don't need or deserve for your attention to be drawn away from them to your H. If you and your H were to reconcile, it would be very very stressful for the kids, they would be living on tenterhooks waiting for the other shoe to drop. So EVEN IF your H comes running back to you in a few months, I would give serious thought to living apart and just dating until your kids are grown.

Second - please see an attorney and find out your financial rights in this situation. It is a mistake to assume that if you just do nothing financially there's a better chance he'll come back - not true. There's just a better chance you'll get screwed over financially by the irresponsible WAS. Please protect yourself financially.

Third - you mention H having a motorcycle accident the summer he started falling apart - any chance he sustained a concussion at that time? If he did, his worsening depression and erratic behavior might be a consequence of his concussion (my ex had 6 concussions in the 8 years before our separation; definitely a contributing factor, although not the whole story).

Fourth - it's frightening that your H attempted suicide when he missed a few doses of his anti-depressants. Although psychiatrists will tell you these drugs have a long half life, it was my experience when my daughter was on them that just one or two missed doses turned her into a whackadoodle. I suspect this is why adolescents have a higher suicide rate on these drugs; probably due to them being less consistent with taking them. Your H is currently medicating his depression with an OW; temporarily at least it is giving him relief. In the long run, you really can't control what happens - if he won't face up to his depression and the role it plays in your relationship, he'll just continue flitting from one new "high" to another (car, motorcycle, girlfriends, etc).

Fifth - sadly you experienced the kind of step-parent issues that often strain marriages. Usually it's better not to attempt to parent the stepkids in a situation like this, just let him do it. But it sounds like you were in a no-win situation there. And to be honest, it's possible that your H was never as committed to your kids as you thought - it takes a lot to parent four teens that aren't your biological kids. Again - YOUR kids need to be your priority, and it is probably best for them NOT to be in a blended family at this point.

Stick to the high road, work on your own issues (is there some reason you may have ignored some red flags about this guy when you were dating?), protect yourself financially, (have you run a credit report?), focus on building the best life you can for you and your kids. You can maintain a generous attitude that your H, suffering from depression, was like a wolf in a trap - he chewed off his own leg to try to get out of his depression. Hard though it may be, you just may not be able to help him.

If he does recover, it's going to take him a while - don't put your life on hold in the meantime. And don't take him back unless he does the hard work necessary, and DON'T put your kids in the middle.

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LN,
I actually thought, as I was reading threads over the past months, that mine IS a mild MLCer. Yeah.... Re-read my subject title. Denial. Seriously, another of H complaints about me:)

I, too, believed it all. I listed on a legal pad, pages and pages of everything I could remember he said, and then read books about how to be better at x, y, z, so that "when he does come running back, I'll be so perfect!" Blech.... Now I gag at the thought of believing it. I was so desperate to have back what will never be again.

I think that was one way I believed I could control this... If I could be better, then I could fix this. Oh, but God showed me quickly, I am but a speck in this process, with zero control over the outcome, my H, or anything but myself. Who did I think I was, anyway? Oh, yeah. A happy, loving, loyal spouse. I still am:).

uR,
Once again, spot on. (Are you here somewhere in my room? ~looks over shoulder~)

You reminded me of yet, another complaint of my H. Well, not a real complaint, but an observation. H would tell me all the time that I "took on other people's" (fault, responsibility, guilt, ownership). Why do I do that?

The introspection part of this is so uncomfortable, painful, yet exciting all at once. I can feel myself growing and becoming more of who I am. But I still tend to initially resist the truth about myself. Is that normal? Is anything normal?

Wait, what is normal again?


M44, H44, both M before
M4 yrs, T6
BD 7/13 ILYB something isn't right with me
H att suicide 2/14
S 4/14
OW disc 5/14
D final 4/15
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K,
Walked too heavy? Oh, that's precious. They sure find the strangest thing to make us self-obsess!

GREAT advice. All of it. Thank you.

So, for the "First": you are so right about the kids. They are doing well, overall. We don't discuss H anymore. I was not good about that in the first weeks of S, but after reading and counseling, I learned I had to do better for them. H topic is off limits, and I redirect my thoughts about 95% of the time. Still working on the backslide-5%. With their sports, S17(x2)graduation, practice driving for S15, D13 social events, my GAL, and this board, I have found far more productive things to do with our time. They are my world:)

"Second": I have been waffling about getting attorney, and yes, for the very reason you listed, fear of finality. You have me convinced. I have a contact to call. Sigh. I'm doing it. Smart to know options, for sure. I can't be irresponsible, especially because of kids.

"Third": Interesting about possible concussion. I'm curious to learn more about the effects. I hadn't put that together.

"Fourth": Yes, I agree with that. If H was being honest then, and he actually did miss doses, he is in trouble. The one fortunate thing is that he is aware of his depression. He is aware he has chemical imbalances, and that he has a history now of dangerous and irrational behavior. He has an inkling but continues to run. My SIL is a C. She addressed with me the possibility of another attempt, and what would I do "if". I know it is a possibility he will try again. I actually think it's highly likely. H is very sensitive, and he absolutely adored me at one time. When he was in rehab, he said he struggled to forgive himself for doing that to us. That's how he's wired. I'm terrified that he will believe he has to take that way out, rather than work through things for himself, much less face me and our R.

"Fifth": you are so right about stepkids. We actually did well for a long time. We didn't see his at all until 2 1/2 years ago. Only had SS, as an adult. We agreed I was not his parent (although he did call me Mom, another story...). H was to handle things if there was an issue. It didn't work, because I was the tattler between my kids to H if there was a problem. (And by problem, I'm not talking so-and-so left the seat up, I'm talking harm). All 4 of mine took to H right away, and he seemed to love them. It very well could have been a mask in hindsight. But kids benefitted regardless. In the early years, was a great teacher, example, funny, silly, supportive, kind, loving, affectionate, everything I dreamed of. It was EXACTLY when (and I know how this seems, but bear with me) SS moved in, things changed drastically. I love SS. I didn't love all of his behaviors, nor the fact that we were "unprotected" since H didn't believe in consequences for SS. Strange..... I have gone back and read emails from H for the month prior, and the month after SS moved in, and H tone and wording are remarkably different. H family and our friends noticed H was becoming tense, and made comments to me about it, too. None of this is SS fault, any more than it is mine. He did what he was allowed to do. We all do, to an extent. If I could do it over, I don't think I would have ever turned SS away. Just might have kept quiet and taken kids away more. It wouldn't have prevented MLC, tho....

Credit report- will do. I need to get my head in the game and stop the denial. But I don't really have denial.... (get it?)

I still get mad at H when stuff happens, but it's short-lived and H never sees it now. I'm always friendly toward him, which I found easy to do early on.

He has noticed how much I've benefitted from working out. I used to think I would feel great if he noticed. Now I know it doesn't mean what it used to mean. It's not even a compliment. It's more of a "hmmm. So NOW you look good."

This part of detachment I do have: His irrational behavior. I do know it's not about me.

I made the decision long ago, based on my Dad teaching me very young, and a thread here (I'll need to look up whom to credit), that I WILL forgive H for everything, no matter what. Divorced or together. I do not believe he is intending to hurt anyone. I already forgive him for what has happened, and I'm prepared to do so everyday, as long as he lives.

It's mostly for me, and it's how I have always been. It is my hope that it may help him when he wakes up. Even if we're divorced. It seems like the human thing to do.

The man I knew is not in control of this. Clearly. He would never do this if he was able to think like himself. How can I not forgive?


M44, H44, both M before
M4 yrs, T6
BD 7/13 ILYB something isn't right with me
H att suicide 2/14
S 4/14
OW disc 5/14
D final 4/15
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Originally Posted By: Shining
You reminded me of yet, another complaint of my H. Well, not a real complaint, but an observation. H would tell me all the time that I "took on other people's" (fault, responsibility, guilt, ownership). Why do I do that?



I can tell you why I used to take on other people's fault and responsibilities. I was a people pleaser for one thing. It was what I was taught for another. I was told by my mother that I wasnt good enough, I wasnt worthy. So, I began to believe that everything was my fault. The good news is....I dont anymore. smile

So, why do you think you do that?

Originally Posted By: Shining
The introspection part of this is so uncomfortable, painful, yet exciting all at once. I can feel myself growing and becoming more of who I am. But I still tend to initially resist the truth about myself. Is that normal? Is anything normal?



Yea, this stuff is hard. Really hard. I always said I wish I didnt have to learn what I did in the way I did. But I wouldnt change the journey for anything. We all initially resist the truth about ourselves. It isnt fun to look at some of it. But you have an amazing opportunity here...to become your best you. Take it.

Kml is right. These MLCers can wreak havoc with finances. Knowledge is power, S. Doesnt mean you are giving up if you take care of you. If he comes out of this, he will be glad you did.

This whole thing is a leap of faith. I promise you that if you do the work, you will be forever changed.

A little about me. I suffered a pretty substancial depression. Add MLC in there and I cant imagine what his head feels like. I will tell you that he is fighting with all he has. It is like swimming through mud with a 50 pound weight on your back.

You are right, forgiveness if for you. It is a way to honor your marriage. It is a way to release the bad feelings that can weigh you down.

But I wouldnt worry about that right now. First, let's work on you. Leave him to his stuff. You didnt break him, so you cant fix him. Keep the focus on you and your kids.

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uR,

Yup. Mom and Dad gave me a "concerned talk" when I was somewhere around 12? That was the first time I had heard the term.

They worried that I was too much of a people-pleaser. My friends walked on me, I always gave stuff away because I felt happier knowing someone else was happy... I didn't think it could be a detrimental trait until recently.

Why do I think I do that? Possibly because I'm uncomfortable when others are uncomfortable.

Mom had to have everything perfect. She eventually outgrew that, but.... You can guess the rest.

I appreciate the clarity regarding forgiveness. I'm rushing toward the finish line when I haven't even tied my shoes.

Working on me does need to be the first focus. Big challenge for us people-pleasers!

Leaving him to his stuff. I hear that, I read that, I cognitively get it. I am close to really getting it. Sooooooo close.

Thank you, uR.


M44, H44, both M before
M4 yrs, T6
BD 7/13 ILYB something isn't right with me
H att suicide 2/14
S 4/14
OW disc 5/14
D final 4/15
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Welcome to this board.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)

I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.

I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956

The link for the resources:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1539436#Post1539436

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Doormat tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444

Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1

Why they run:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=67406&page=1

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...6668#Post526668

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=714209

Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741

Odds and Ends of MLC(new from Delboy)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=656357#Post656357

MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869

The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1

Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.

I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.

The stages of MLC as rewritten by HB from Jim Conway are a template
which can only be laid over an MLCer's experience retrospectively.
It's impossible to see the pattern until it has finished being laid or the crisis is complete.(nickel Cyrena).
So do not be too concerned where your MLC'er is in this process.
(Although my general guess is that they are in REPLAY)

Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!

Believe none of what he says and 50% of what he does.

I would not ask him anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H as controlling or pressure.

Lets not worry about him. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.

Detach the single most important thing to DO.


Your H has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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Oh yes, I got the I needed to catch up, after the I've grieved.

I also got, I'm at a different place in the grief cycle!
I will have a nice close friendship with you, insert good bits from our life here, and a new gf! I will have an ow you need to accept that.

I also heard him talking to himself of to the side making up his version of how when what etc he met ow! How a psych will fix everything, but he expected only me to go.

He basically bolted refuses to contact, told the mediator today there is nothing to sort out acted confused as why he would receive a letter re property settlement.

Wants a large pay out from me, and thinks its sorted and agreed to. crazy I did not agree to it.

Hell will freeze over before I give him a pay out, I earn less, I'm in the lessor position not gunna happen.

He's made a million promises none of which he remembers if its him honouring anything to do with me, me giving him a promise is expected collected and then denied I even carried thru.

Lets see other lines, ow is my one chance at happiness
She is my journey and I need see where she is leading me!
sickup the garden path IMHO, but meanwhile

It's just my soul mate, who happened to walk in the day you chucked your wobbly.

It's really childish stuff, not based remotely in reality.

Last edited by Ggrass; 07/29/14 12:18 PM.

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Why, yes, Miss Patti LaBelle, I DO have a “New Attitude”!

Runnin' hot, runnin' cold
I was runnin' into overload, it was extreme
I took it so high, so low
So low, there was nowhere to go like a bad dream

Somehow the wires uncrossed, my tables were turned
Never knew I had such a lesson to learn

I'm feelin' good from my head to my shoes (and oh, I love shoes….)
Know where I'm goin' and I know what to do (maybe not yet, but I know people who know!)
I tidied it up my point of view
I got a new attitude!

I'm in control, my worries are few (and by control, I mean of myself, and myself only)
'Cause I've got love like I never knew (I know I’m enough with God’s love, a man’s love is just a bonus)
Ooo, ooo, ooo, ooo, ooo
I got a new attitude!

I'm wearing a new dress, new hair
Brand new ideas, as a matter of fact I've changed for good
It must have been the cool night, new moon, slight change
More than to figure oh but I feel like I should, yes

I dug that one out of the acid-washed archives of the 80's. You're welcome.

Since joining the forum, and hearing from such wonderful people, I woke up today with the most PMA I have had in a long time. The support here is incredible. You all remind me how much there is to be grateful for, and how much good there is in this life.

I feel like this board is some kind of secret underground world, a symposium of guardian angels, guiding us from our deep despair.

Or, the “Love Experts” from “Frozen.”

Armed with my silly imagination, and a quirky mind that is wired for connecting dots (and too much people pleasing, but I'm working on that), I'm ready to face this new day! I do find that I can lose people in the obscurity of my thoughts at times… My apologies in advance.

A few of my goals this week (starting Monday, ending Sunday):

Do not initiate contact with H (zero yesterday, H already texted and emailed me twice today and I haven't responded. Been busy!)
Do not bring up H to kids
Schedule consult with L
Do one nice thing for myself everyday
Practice driving with S15 for a total of 4 hours by Sunday
Organize file-pile at home
Go to sleep no later than midnight on work nights

Some other stuff I had on my list is now so automatic, I no longer need to list it! (Pats self on back)

Whoop, whoop!! Have a great morning!


M44, H44, both M before
M4 yrs, T6
BD 7/13 ILYB something isn't right with me
H att suicide 2/14
S 4/14
OW disc 5/14
D final 4/15
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We agreed in July to sell our house.

Some background:

My circumstances were such that I was the one to move out, with my kids. H and SS20 still live in the house. OW appears to have replaced me in every way, and stays almost every night. H D19 found herself needing to be out of the place she was living, and moved into the house in July.

Kids and I didn't mind being the ones moving out. My SIL commented that she found it remarkable that 4 teenaged kids were so willing to leave their big house with their own rooms and amenities, to live in a 2BR apartment in order to be away from the chaos. She said "that alone speaks volumes to the situation."

So, our newly deemed, "Summer Condo" is our sanctuary. It is tiny, and beautiful. It is decorated with all things that remind us of good. And we love it.

H agreed to pay all house expenses if we just got out. H shows me proof of mortgage and bill payments via bank transactions, etc. He is still a bill payer, so far, but I need to protect myself more going forward. This crazy train is not stopping anytime soon. Selling the house will eliminate a big risk. We agreed to divide house profit 50-50, and I will not agree to anything less. He can't sell it without my sig.

I am glad to not have the big utility bills, the homeowner responsibility, and the constant ghosts of memories past in the house. H can have it.

OW was coincidentally in the process of selling her McMansion. She has no job and no money. There is more to her story, but I stopped caring. It doesn't matter now.

In the pre-DB days, I searched her address and saw where she lived, tried to figure out who she was and how they met. But I dropped that a while ago. I know better now. Not perfectly ignoring, but definitely better.

So for a time, H and OW at least had their home sales in common. Hers is now sold. H is in a big big hurry. (Hurry. Can you say MLC trait?)

When H first talked to me about listing the house, he said he was running out of money, bills were astronomical, house was super inefficient, and "I don't want it." Hmmmm.... He sure fought hard and wanted it at time of S.

H told me in early July that he needed to be out of the house in 30 days or less. That meant the house would be repaired, listed, negotiated, closed, and H moved out. 30 days. Sounds reasonable.

Anyone who as sold a house before knows, that ain't the way it works. But who was I to tell him otherwise? I just nodded and listened.

House has been on market 2 weeks and H is getting itchy. Dropped price after one week (we agreed to drop, since H initial number was far too high to begin with). Now H wants to drop again. Realtor is trying to get H to be a little more patient.... Let me know how that works for ya.

Today, H texted me at 8:00. "No showings. I guess we are way high priced".
I didn't answer yet. (For me, this is a HUGE 180! yeah, me!)

H emailed at 8:04. "We may have to come way down."
I still haven't answered.

H sent text #2 at 11:00. "Busy?"

I am open to suggestions on responding.

I'm not intending to refuse communication. It's just business. I just want to put more thought into responses.

I have always responded to him immediately, so I think this could shake things up to not be so accessible. Yes?


M44, H44, both M before
M4 yrs, T6
BD 7/13 ILYB something isn't right with me
H att suicide 2/14
S 4/14
OW disc 5/14
D final 4/15
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Hey Shining, just caught up on your sitch.
Sorry you are here, but it sounds like you are going in the right direction - reading everything, educating yourself, talking in support group - you will get some great advice here from vets.
It's only been 6 months for me but it feels like a lifetime.
Detaching is hard, it can be done though. I too thought about him all my waking hours. I was devastated and heartbroken, the worst pain of my life. I forced myself to go to a divorce group and we used this book "Rebuilding when your relationship ends" by Dr. Bruce Fisher. I highly recommend it - it helped me tremendously. It was like having a roadmap to healing - at least for me, I know everyone is different. Going to a group helped me a lot too, it wasn't just reading the book. The other thing that helped me the most was praying. I had lost my faith many years ago but this brought me back full force and I can say that it truly brought me through the darkest part of my life. Just take it one day at a time. Some people wear a rubber band on their wrist and snap it if they start thinking of OW or something else that they don't want to be thinking about, then you remind yourself with a snap and find something to do to take your mind off. That positive attitude you have will be a big help as well. You really sound like you're on the road to recovery - there will be bumps along the way but you sound great today. I like that you listed your goals - I did these same things and still do!! read and re-read those sandi's rules in the newcomers thread, that was a big help to me too. sounds like you got this!! hang in there, it does get better.


Me - 42
exH - 56
Married 10.5 years
Together 17
bomb dropped 1/6/14
signed papers 2/4/14
H moved out 2/22/14
D final 4/4/14
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Quote:
H sent text #2 at 11:00. "Busy?"

I am open to suggestions on responding.

I'm not intending to refuse communication. It's just business. I just want to put more thought into responses.


Shining, welcome to the boards and to YOUR OWN JOURNEY to Healing. :-) You will gain lots of support and encouragement on these boards.

Seems like you have your answer. Maybe just say that you need a little time to think about it and you will get back to him?????


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Ahhhh, thank you, LB. You're exactly right.

I did answer my own question.

Smiling:)


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TL,
Thank you for the encouragement. I hadn't heard of that book, but I'll be picking it up. I like the roadmap to healing idea.

God is faithfully by my side and I pray several times each day. I have always had a relationship with God, but much closer recently. He uses our pain to bring us toward Him.

It has gotten better already. Not easy, for sure. But better.


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Well, this is new.

180, held off responding to text. I did something different. Usually, I would "mind-read" and offer stuff I was never asked, based on my assumptions. I waited, and realized my instinctive answer was not anything he actually asked me.
# 1. "No showings. I guess price too high." And #2. "Busy?"

I finally responded "What's up?"

H: "The price is too high." (H decided to repeat previous text)

....crickets.

H: "Thoughts?"

Me: "it sounds like (realtor) advises to give it another week."

H: " yeah, I just gave him crap bc blah blah blah....."

.....crickets.

Then he said "after a week, how about (dollar amount)?

Me: "I'm fine with that."

What I stopped myself from doing:
Asking follow up questions in an effort to keep him chatting
Answering impulsively and immediately
Answering questions I wasn't asked

This may sound small, but it felt big.

Then, hours later, and for the first time in a month, H texted D13. (She is the only one he contacts). It was a pic of the dog, and "how are you doing?" She was surprised.

H asked if they went to (other state) to visit their dad. He seems fixated on this topic because he has asked several times in past months. Or he just forgot.

They didn't go, and they haven't for years. Xh comes here now, so kids can be near friends, stay in activities, work.... This isn't new. Xh was here for S17x2 graduation already.

Oh well. Doesn't matter, I suppose. Just documenting a change, for the most part.


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Quote:
H asked if they went to (other state) to visit their dad. He seems fixated on this topic because he has asked several times in past months. Or he just forgot.


He just forgot. You'll see this a lot. Sometimes you'll have whole conversations with the WAS and a week later, they'll ask you the same thing as if you never spoke.

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Shining. Just finished reading your sitch. Your attitude and sense of humor will be big benefits as you continue on your journey. I am glad to see you have already turned your focus to you.

That is great how you thought about the texting today. Yes it was a small step but that is what the journey is made of. We have years of patterns of interaction ingrained. It takes time to learn a "better" way to do things.

Keep it up!


Me 44 H 42
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S11 (special needs)

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Thanks, JG. I'm certainly trying. Humor is the new denial:)

H texted D13 again this evening. Earlier, H was asking about whether she would be going to (other state) to see her dad.

D13 answered no, and added, "why do you ask?"

H didn't reply until tonight, "because I didn't know if you are ok with that."

Would he really even care to know this? H has never even met xh.

H's D-Dad lived in another state when H was growing up, and from age 5-17, H and brothers spent summers with him.

Is this a possible childhood issue he's re-enacting or working through, or are MLCers in DEEEEEEEP REEEEEEEPLAAAAYYY not really thinking much at all, and I'm over analyzing? OUCH. ok. got it.

Strange thing, tho, since H doesn't usually text us during non-work hours. 8:30pm is typically OW time.

Venting, journaling, processing, documenting...detach detach detach.....and repeat:

NOT MY CIRCUS, NOT MY MONKEYS.

There. All better now.


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Shining, as I said, I like your style. You are a quick study with a sense of humor. My kinda girl. wink

So, may I ask how you know that the OW has replaced you in everyway and is there every night?

Here's my thought on OWs or OMs. They dont matter. Not one bit. They should not take up any headspace at all. They are a symptom of a problem with huge problems of their own.

I wanted to talk about reading of books. As I wrote to you, knowledge is power. It does help to know what you are dealing with. It also helps to get books to help you figure out yourself. Just be careful not to get yourself crazy with it all.

The way I went about figuring stuff out was I looked at what my h said. Picked out what had validity. Then I was brutally honest with how I saw myself. Wrote down the good stuff and the not so good stuff. I looked at people I admired. I figured out what characteristics and attributes they had that I found attractive.

Through the dbing process, I worked really hard to dig in and work on myself. It was tough. I had to look at some really hard things. But, no pain, no gain, right?

You mentioned that you feel uncomfortable when someone else is uncomfortable. What does it feel like exactly? What would happen if you let them feel what they feel?

I want to just say a little about MLC. This crisis was destined to happen. There was nothing anyone could do to stop it.

You said you think his breaking point was when the kids left. Most MLC's are rooted in a childhood trauma, event or
unresolved issues. MLCers usually do not have good coping skills. So that when there is an event in adulthood, they are unable to handle it. They are demons they have to slay. Much as we hate if for them, they have to do it alone.

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I was typing my post while you posted yours.

Hope you didnt hurt yourself there. LOL!

Ayep.....not your circus...

He will do a lot of strange things. Best not to try to figure it out or it will make your head hurt.

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Shining,

I'm just catching up on your sitch and you get this. I'm sorry you have large pores. Can I interest you in some Biore strips????:) I'm glad the Kml shared her fault of heavy walking. I eat tacos wrong and bought groceries on sale. All kidding aside, this is the best place to be for this. Wonderful, honest, caring people here for support and just listening to the venting and the good stuff in your life.

You've gotten great advice. Admittedly, I don't communicate with my h much other than text. However, I've found that if I do, I keep it very simple and short. Even then, he gets frustrated. I just try to keep it brief, pleasant and I don't engage in the crazy anymore.

Hang in there!



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Originally Posted By: uRworthy
So, may I ask how you know that the OW has replaced you in everyway and is there every night?



Hmmm....I guess since I'm not there, I really can't know for certain. Oooooh, uR, this confession is gonna hurt. Brutally honest. Prepare the 2x4s.

Some background:

ACT I: "PRE-DB"
(this is my feeble attempt to avoid being accountable for my actions, since this was all before DB)

Initially, I was under the impression that we were separating in an effort to preserve our marriage....haha. That was a laugh. BAIT? SWITCH.

The day I had confirmation of OW, H took her out on our boat. This was 20 days after kids and I moved out. I went ballistic. I left work, and went to the house. There were bags and bags of her shoes and clothes on the floor, and hanging in my closet. After I checked to see what size she wore, because let's be real, we all wonder....I found the sexy lingerie. Did I take pics? Heck yeah, I took pics (duh, who wouldn't want proof?) Her iPad was on my nightstand. Her hair products and make-up were on my vanity. (This was when I discovered his Eau de MLC scent of "Ed Hardy" cologne.... Ok, that was actually comical because he hated both EH and cologne). She bought him a shirt he would NEVER wear....chuckled bc it was wrong size......lol. Oohhh, they had been together there long before that day. Prob EA for a while, too. Let's just say she didn't just throw a few things together and show up.

I went through a wallet of hers.... Yeah...I know. NOW I know. But that's how I learned her name. A business card with a photo.... Ewwww. No one in family, H work or friends knows her. I'm guessing he found her online, as there were clues to that possibility months earlier. I'll save that story for another time.

In the next scene, the role of "Betrayed Clueless Angry Wife" as performed by Shining:

Grace had somehow escaped me in that moment, and I decided to send H a pic of OW's trashy nightie to him while they were on the boat, and texted that she's so lucky because he's quite the catch...and I told him his whole family knows. And friends. And work. (Slight exaggeration, perhaps, but I did expose him to a few that suspected anyway).

That was followed by my freak-out-ballistic-cry-fest-how-could-you performance. Then texts to H suggesting he get tested for STDs. And check for warts. Oh, I was relentless. At the time, H was consulting me! Asking what he should do, and is there something I know that he needs to know, because he didn't want an STD.... As if I'm his buddy. (Wth?)

Boy, I sure gave him 2 days worth of proof that I'm bat$$crazy and he should have left me a long time ago. One might say, I reacted. This had never happened to me before. Never saw that coming. I completely lost it. WOW was that the worst pain? Ever?!??

Now I know better.

SD19 moved in after kids and I left, and SS20 still lives there. For several weeks, SD19 was texting me bc she was upset about her dad's behavior. She does not like OW (told H that he's crazy for leaving me, and that OW is "pathetic and sloppy"). I have to admit, I asked about things because I thought it mattered at first. I could feel the anger, adrenaline, and energy that goes with hearing bad things about someone who hurt me. I felt validated. I learned that all it got me, was upset.

Ok, so the knowing better from before? Now I know even BETTER.

ACT II: POST DB

I told SD19 that I needed to detach, I should not have been asking her anything, and I was sorry for putting her in that position.

I still hear bits and pieces by default, family or neighbors will slip something in a conversation, not on purpose, but enough to give me the impression that OW is the new "me".....only she's older. And not me.

SD19 confirmed a while back that H spends 24/7 with OW. SD19 was so upset with him one night bc she wanted time with him, but he monster spewed at her, of COURSE, defending the fair maiden he rescued from a search-a-slu+ website. H and SD19 fought, and she ultimately kicked a hole in the wall....the newly painted textured wall. Oops.

This was followed by SD19 getting locked out of house without her car keys, crying on sidewalk, neighbors texting me not wanting to know what's going on, but concerned about SD19.... Oh, yeah. We're THAT house now. Well, they are...because I'm .... Wait for it.....

DETACHED.

Who knows what really goes on there now. I guess I just assumed that since I'm strapped in for the long, earth-orbiting trip while H figures out which way is up, that things would be the same for a while. If MLC affairs really take a long time to cycle.

I got that out of my system. Now I'm like, totally zen.


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Oh, GEORGIABELLE!! Where have you been all my life? I'm dying. I haven't laughed this hard OUT LOUD in so long, my kids came in to make sure I was ok!

Do you think, perhaps, that you might find Biore strips on sale with the groceries? Meanwhile, I'll add taco eating lessons to my list of GAL. I'll tread softly over to my pad and pen, now that I'm aware of chronic heavy walking syndrome ... I truly can learn from others' faults, so as not to display such hideous behavior in the future.

Should a man be expected to settle for those of us who dare be so flawed? Surely, we belong on the Island of Misfit Toys.


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Oh boy, Shining....you sure have some spunk. LOL!

Couple of things about me. I dont really like 2 x 4's much. I am not above giving them.....just not really my style. I am, however, very honest with people.

The thing about affairs is that they are not at all like what we envision. Trust me on that. You may think they are having a grand old time. But he is a mess and in crisis and she is....I dont know what she is except that she is with a married man.

That relationship is built on lies and deceit and craziness. It cannot sustain with a foundation like that.

Glad you got all that out of your system. Try your best not to let other people clue you in. Not good for you, ya know?

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uR,

Me? Spunky? I like that, thank you!

I don't like 2x4s either. I just know I may need a few to make sure the knowledge leaves an impression.

Do you have an example of what an MLC affair might look like behind the glorious facade? I have read this, but mainly what it is "not" like....

Is it boring? High conflict? Does the MLCer just sleep all the time while she sits there knitting? He is a mess, for sure.

I did giggle once when I pulled into the parking lot of our drug store. H and OW were outside (if he didn't see me, his loss, I looked fabulous). Get this.... At REDBOX. Already there? Renting movies? That was awesome. And H hates movies. Depressed people can't focus for that long I guess.

I mainly hear (not just mine) about the trips, shopping, dinners, events, concerts, dates... I guess it's natural to envision that being a pretty good time. Oh, and the sex. But I don't envision that because I choose not to.


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Take a look at Ambivalent's last post on her thread.....this is why I say consult a lawyer and protect yourself financially

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Kml... I just read it. Wow. Thanks for the head's up.

That is so scary. I will be making an appointment tomorrow.


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My greatest faults are being honest, being relaxed (read lazy) working to much, sneezing too much when sick, coughing when sick not stalking him, being nice, not waiting on him, not cleaning his house to his standard (which he couldn't do either he has since again hired a cleaner for him as a single man) not brushing my teeth long enough, not getting up at the same time, not know what is appropriate behaviour at all times, not saying hello to every individual or saying too much and stealing his lime light!

If I had time I would think of about a thousand more!


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Do you know, I hve totally forgotten (not suppressed) all the things that my xh apparently didn't like about me.

I tried to remember them while I was reading along - for laughs, and they have just evaporated. It all passes eventually, the hurt and pain.

You are a very courageous person who totally gets it. There have been some great posters here who no longer post Punkin and Wentikiti spring to mind but there are many more, who just went on with their lives with humour and grace.

Your attitude will help others here who are not as robust in their outlook yet. I wish I had learned as fast as you

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I have turns his complaints into jokes!

Well really I slept crooked! Oh and broke the bed! wink grin
He took those things life and death seriously, even at the time it's hard not to laugh in their face who thinks like that and thinks its m ending?

They say more about him, than me. He's been trying to convince me and his family I'm mentally ill due to MENopause and raging hormones. I'm not chasing any op, nor raging hormones, but someone else's actions are showing they are.


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Hi Shining smile

Trust me, your sense of humor will get you very far with all of this MLC craziness!!!

I think every LBS can look back and tell you that their spouse had a list of complaints about them during the crisis.

Pre- MLC, my H was very complimentary of me, would tell me how lucky he was to have me, that marrying me was the best thing he ever did.

During MLC...well... Not so much. Lol!!!!

In the months before bomb, I couldn't do anything right. He complained about everything, from the way I cooked, cleaned, did laundry, took care of kids.
My personal favorite was that I apparently put things in the recycling bin wrong. Don't ask me, I'm still not sure what that means!

I bet if I would ask him about it today, he wouldn't remember any of that.

See, they need to be critical of us and make us the bad guy to justify their behavior. They have all this anger, it needs to be directed somewhere. They aren't ready to turn it back on themselves.

Okay, what does an MLC affair look like...

So, my H has been home this entire time. I've had the opportunity to see the good, the bad, the ugly, and the absolutely hideous!!!

In the beginning of the affair, it's all sunshine and butterflies. Oh, how wonderful the ow is! No one understands me like her! She is such a good friend!
Barf!!!!

H would go out every weekend and stay out till 2, 3, 4:00 in the morning. The texting was constant, and I do mean CONSTANT. If he could have showered with his phone, I think he would have. My favorite was watching him text while cutting the grass. He would walk five feet, stop to text, walk five feet, stop to text. Then he would comment on how it took him hours to mow the lawn!

I said nothing, just bit my tongue. Hard.

But as time goes on, the "real" personality of both affair partners starts showing through. The facade of being so wonderful starts to fade, and reality begins to take place.

But - even then - I think the MLCer wants to put the blinders on. After all... They have put their marriages and families in jeopardy for this person, they want to believe so much she is the answer to their problems. They don't want to face the possibility that they were wrong, that they screwed up.

I remember reading an interesting article online awhile ago, it was about why affairs don't last.

There are many reasons, but primarily, all the issues that each person had prior to the affair eventually rear their ugly head. Once the fun and games of a "new" relationship has ended, they are right back to a regular old relationship, filled with problems and issues and fights. Except everything is magnified because of all the lies and deceit.

Where the affair partners were once FLATTERED that the other would cheat on their spouse for them, eventually they begin to wonder...
If they cheated on their spouse, person they promised to love forever, parent of their children, what's to stop them from cheating on me, lying to me???

Why, nothing of course.

I can also tell you that I got to see a lot of depression and unhappiness from my H. MLC is not one big party like the MLCer might have you believe. They are hurting, deeply hurting. They will do anything to make that hurt stop.

Anyway, you are doing great! Moments of sadness, anger, frustrating will come - but they will also pass smile


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Shining,

URworthy is right. Your h is not the h you knew. My h's gf and all of his new friends say he is going thru MLC and they hope he gets through. I don't know what your h's OW(well, they are all kind of the same) is like, but I imagine she has an a$$load of issues.


Last edited by Georgiabelle; 07/30/14 08:08 PM.


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Well, check THAT off the list of "to-do's"

(((((((($$$$$$ smile laugh blush cool sleep$$$$$$))))))))

^^^^^ that there is me protecting myself, my kids, and my a$$ets.

After all the other great advice regarding financial protection, kml directed me to Ambivalent's thread last night. Have you read it yet?? If not, especially any fellow newbies, do it, please. I'm so sorry for her sitch. I was stunned at the financial devastation this can, and most often does, cause.

I have an appointment with an attorney tomorrow morning. I'm exploring options, but from what I've been able to research, a post-nup/partition agreement is a good possible option in my state, since there is no legal separation here.

If H agrees to that for example, all financial activity i.e. new debt and income post S would be considered individual, we can file a partition of assets. (obviously more detail to this, but not necessary to post).

CAUTION: Mind-Reading Ahead
I think there is a strong possibility he may actually agree, knowing that he would not have to show me where he has been spending money this summer. (He doesn't know that I know about their trips, etc.) If D is filed, he will have to disclose all CC charges and expose all his "secrets". Further down the road, he may not care if I know. I am hoping (not expecting) it's early enough that he's agreeable.

If he chooses not to agree, I will have to consider other options, including, but not limited to D (legal jargon, lol). Since I haven't even met with attorney yet, I really don't know what all the options are.

Thanks, everyone, for continuing to remind me that my H is not himself right now. Things H would never do before, are migrating over to the list of "oh, yeah, he did that, too".

Maybe we should start a thread of "Things H would never do before MLC, but has now gone and done"

Given this theory, I'm predicting H will soon be adorning a Kim K@rd@shi@n tattoo someplace highly visible.


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I'd like to suggest that you take some time and visit the MLC archives. There is a wealth information in those archives about the MLCer, the things they say and/or do, etc.

Do whatever you need to do in order to protect your assets and definitely watch the spending.

BTW, your h will become the exact opposite of the man you knew, i.e., as I call them...the mirror image of former selves. Do not rely on him for anything, as he will most often not to show up at appropriate times or do what you would have "expected of him pre crisis.

Live your life to the fullest and detach as much as you can.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Thank you, job. Are there any specific posters in archives that you might recommend? I have poked around there, but only a little bit so far. It is some great stuff.

H before MLC was loving, kind, funny, affectionate, responsible, brilliant, talented, respectful, appropriate, considerate, appreciative, sensitive, caring, hard-working, role-model of a man. Not perfect, of course. He had his negative moments as we all do, of being impatient, insecure, and critical.

But then he became so self-loathing and depressed.

I'm scared of what that mirror might look like.

When you say, "your h will become..." Does that mean he's still "becoming"?
(I think the real question I'm probably asking is the rhetorical how-much-worse-can-he-get)

Do personality/extreme behaviors continue to worsen only while in replay?

I'm guessing, like most things, it's different for everyone. Mine seems pretty severe (at least to me). I would like to read some more severe MLC threads, knowing mine will not be exactly like others, but there are probably many things that relate.


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H att suicide 2/14
S 4/14
OW disc 5/14
D final 4/15
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Shining. I am with you in wanting to learn more. My h is clearly one of the mean ones. It is nearly 1 year since BD and I think 2 since start of crisis. Maybe a bit longer. He is still spiraling down. I would like to read some threads to get some idea of time line. Wonka had said on another thread that he rarely sees the really mean ones make it out. H is so stubborn and now so arrogant.

Ps thanks for your support on my thread. Had to chuckle at your headache comments.


Me 44 H 42
M 10 T 12 (at time of BD)
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Please forget time lines. Everyone who has been at this any length of time will tell you the same thing. MLC is not a formula. It is when fragile coping strategies break down, and they become their shadow.

Without wanting to put words in Job's mouth, 'they become' means that is the person they turn into for a period of time. The length of this is unknowable.

A few people are relatively fortunate and their spouses do not stay in crisis for long and return to themselves and restore the marriage. Others take much longer and may or may not make it through. Wonka may well be right that the meaner ones stay in crisis, but not enough is known about the whole difficult business for anyone to be sure about this. What I am writing below is my own observation and may well be wrong.

There appear to me to be two groups of MLC marriage. One where the MLC person was amazing and the marriage was very happy, and the other in which the lbs realises that there were always problems (usually drink, drugs or affairs, but sometimes simply difficult behaviour). However ALL of them, I believe, even niceness are coping strategies for deeper problems which they mask until an event triggers the coping strategy breakdown. This breakdown can be more or less gradual. In my case I waatched my husband disintegrate (although I didn't know it at teh time) over a three months period prior to the bomb.

So that the bomb can happen fairly early in the crisis or somw time into it, depending on the length of fuse, if that makes sense.

It is we who have to survive. The MLCer may or may not make it through, and even if they do, the lbs may have moved on and away from the damage, with no desire to return.

I wonder if the really mean ones feel more 'guilty' and have a greater sense of the wrong they have done? this may be what makes it harder to make any sort of amends.

I believe that my xh is having a very severe MLC. He has been in obvious crisis now for nine years. that's right nine! During that time he has been fairly consistently hostile and mean, to the extent that he is currently suing me. He has alienated all of his children, and his two daughters in law.

However, even my xh has had a few periods of clarity before plunging deeper into the tunnel.

Pre crisis my xh was a loving man who valued his family above all else. We were happy and united. We were married over 30 years when the bomb went off.

I am so grateful that I found these boards, without them I do not know what I would have done.

Will he ever come out? Honestly I do not know. Several experienced posters have suggested that he may remain stuck, which is why it is so important to move forward with your own life.

I do not like who he is now - who could? And I do not think he likes himself much. He is full of suppressed rage - that is the biggest change in him, the rage is much more evident over the past year or so. He is so angry is is like a thunder cloud. This may be because he realizes what he has lost, but hasn't got a clue how to put it right. So he continues to loudly proclaim how right he was to leave me.

He recently remarried (not the original OW) but without much enthusiasm, as far as I can see. We have little contact, but when we do speak he still seems like an alien, someone from another planet, and impervious to 'normal' feelings.

Sorry if this is a depressing post. The good news is that I am pretty good, and have rebuilt my life. My kids have pretty much recovered, and my dils are amazing women.

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Bea thank you for sharing. I was thinking of you when I wrote above post. Not depressing in that it is what I have been expecting. In the beginning I said I was grateful to h for opening my eyes to many less than pleasant things about myself. I won't take over Shining's thread by listing them!!

Anyway. I realize that when I realized he was in crisis I changed my attitude toward him. Jerk who has an affair and dumps his wife I despise and want to D right away. Depressed man escaping from life with alcohol and OW is in crisis and the "in sickness and in health" trigger goes off. Does that make sense?

Focus back on me and s. There is a song that s likes on the radio. He doesn't listen to the words except for the chorus.

"I didn't know I was broken till I wanted to change". I will keep working on enhancing myself.


Me 44 H 42
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S11 (special needs)

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Shining good luck at attny today.


Me 44 H 42
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Yeah, good luck.

I got my news about mediation he consented. Which I'm surprised about, but glad. It will enable me to distance my self from any and all destruction that could occur.


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Quote:
It is when fragile coping strategies break down, and they become their shadow.


I really believe this ^^^^^^^^

Quote:
There appear to me to be two groups of MLC marriage. One where the MLC person was amazing and the marriage was very happy, and the other in which the lbs realises that there were always problems (usually drink, drugs or affairs, but sometimes simply difficult behaviour). However ALL of them, I believe, even niceness are coping strategies for deeper problems which they mask until an event triggers the coping strategy breakdown. This breakdown can be more or less gradual. In my case I waatched my husband disintegrate (although I didn't know it at teh time) over a three months period prior to the bomb.


And this ^^^^^^^^

My husband was in the second category...his substance abuse and anger was always an issue in our marriage...but, he had these moments of clarity throughout where he accepted responsibility and tried to make things work.

Still, I remember feeling that he was always Giving 300% to just get to his job and get through the day. I tried to reach out and help him see that I would support him in getting help for his depression, anger, addiction...he was adamant and, I see now, that he NEEDED to move through this journey.

One thing HIS journey has done for me...it's validated suspicions I always had about his parents...that they were very abusive and distant and emotionally unavailable. Almost immediately after Smokey moved out of our home and it was revealed there was another woman, my inlaws broke off all contact with our two daughters. They have remained unavailable throughout the crisis...with a few moments of mediocre support. Most recently, they acted--my MIL--especially--have exhibited their own MLC behaviors. They sent my D20 a terrible, guilting B'day card blaming her for not seeing them or her cousins...bear in mind, they haven't made an effort to see our girls.

Anyway, my point is...my H came from a really broken, unhealthy situation and he's running/facing it now. He never learned how to cope in this world...I see now he was always a FAKE in terms of showing the world a front instead of believing in/loving his true self. He felt he had to BE something he wasn't. It's all very sad.

When things got very rough for us with a daughter with special needs and financial difficulties...he ran hard. All that past hurt hit him like a wall of pain.

I believe that. It's not you Shining. It really isn't. Try and make that your mantra.

You will be ok. :-)


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Hi Shining - how did it go today?

Some very good questions and discussion on your thread. When it comes to mean MLCers, listen to Bea. She can give you some really good advice.

Lois, I also really like Bea's quote about the two types of marriages. I think it's true. I also think we could add to that two different types of people who go into MLC - 1. Ones that were good, normal people beforehand then had a total internal personality meltdown and 2. Ones that were jerks then go into crisis and all their bad traits are multiplied by 1000.

My H falls under #1, which is how I knew something was drastically wrong. There's being unhappy in your marriage - then there's becoming a total opposite of the person you were before. It's disturbing to see, sad.

MLC is still such a mystery. There are plenty of people who had bad childhoods, traumatic events early in life, etc. that don't go into crisis. So, I think it does seem to be true about the lack of coping skills.

Oh, and timelines - YIKES!!!
Because they hide so much from us and everything is internal, it's hard to say exactly when all the unrest within them starts. The denial and anger stages can start years before bomb or us recognizing that there might be a problem. I also believe they can be working through things internally - or not - without us being aware. I remember a friend of mine describing an MLC brain as a hornets nest (or was it beehive? I swear my memory has taken a hit with all of this too!) anyway, it's very noisy and confusing up in there, and best if you stay away to let them sort it all out.

Let us know how you're doing smile


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Hi, friends. I'm so glad to have somewhere to put this.

Update... I'm at a big-time low moment. It's temporary, but I'm upset and scared.

I had to reschedule with L for tomorrow morning due to something that happened at work.

My boss told me he wants me to look for another job. Yep. Because why not add that to the mix of stuff?

Reasons:
They "aren't busy enough"
I "dropped a few balls" (forgot to order a baby gift and didn't register for an event that was actually the responsibility of a different department. Nothing that caused any monetary damage or otherwise)
They have "been too good to me already"

To be clear, I'm intelligent, responsible, reliable, an excellent worker, highly regarded, and I am able to take criticism better than most. I don't throw people under a bus that should be mine. I have NEVER been one to mope around, nor have I ever been a crying mess, lashed out in anger, come in like I haven't slept in weeks... I have been very proud of my ability to get it together, smile, and carry on. I am upset that after months of my boss telling me how great I seem to be doing, suddenly I'm some kind of flake.

>>> side note, I had a complicated hysterectomy in 10/13. I had to take 10 weeks off. Boss was good to me for that. Then 2/14 H suicide attempt, had to leave work one and a half days off. Then 4/14 had to take off to find apartment -one day off. 5/14 took time off to move-2 days off. One day to help S17x2 look at colleges.

Others in my office have had 2-3 full-week vacations during the same time.

My total days off in 2014 with everything we've been through: 5.5 days

But they have "bent over backwards" he said, accommodating all of my issues. He said, "I understand what you've been going through." (Ummmmm, really?......good thing for him, I don't have a temper.......) I told boss, "If I could have prevented any of this, I would have. I didn't ask for any of this to happen, nor would I wish this on my worst enemy. But if 'I' wasn't 'me' living it, I wouldn't know any different either. I'm sorry you feel that way." (Beaming a little)

It's a medium sized office, but not very busy. In fact, I have had so little to do lately, that it is difficult for me at times to switch gears from "off" to "full-boar". I tend to do better when I'm constantly busy and get into a groove. Grieving also can make people forget things they wouldn't typically forget. So perhaps he has a point. I'll have to take a closer look at myself on that. I wonder, does anyone really work well in sudden bursts of projects, then nothing, then back to burst? Maybe firefighters. Good thing I'm not one. I digress.

I hate the fact that they know about H. I received the suicide email while I was at work. I guess, as I was reading H "goodbye, we had some amazing times, please be good to my kids", I was lacking the presence of mind in that moment to try and keep it together and just say "family emergency".

Boss said that I can take 3-4 weeks to find another job, while he finds someone else to do mine. I am probably overpaid based on the responsibilities I currently have. He can find someone to do my job for half of what I make.

He's not an evil boss. He's an insecure bully. A coward. Maybe hes in his own MLC! I still wouldn't even wish that on him. He's under a ton of pressure with various issues that have nothing to do with me. I recognized the projection and blame. I saw what was mine to own, and what wasn't. I believe I can apply some "detaching" skills to this. I'm already growing.

It's going to be ok. It's just more stress that I would rather not have at a time that I really don't need it.

BUT......

Do you know what's really good about this? wink


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Shining, so sorry you have to deal with this right now. Yes, I’ve been at jobs when I had nothing to do and bored for some time and then I had to work over time because all of a sudden there was a lot of work. I was a consultant, so I was used to work like that. I completely understand what you are feeling. I was on the project when H dropped the B on me. I was in the fog, grieving, trying to make sense of it trying to function. I didn’t tell anybody about my sitch for some time, because I was afraid that they would just let me go. Luckily, I was still able to do what I needed to do for my work.

It sounds like your boss is trying to use the situation to replace you with a less expensive candidate. I don’t know if he can just fire you for the reasons he stated. I don’t even know what to suggest in this situation, except to start looking for a different place to work. I know how hard it is right now, but I believe you can do it.


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In other news...

I'm trying not to spiral down with depressing thoughts of job hunting. So, what else, what else, what else..... Oh!

Today is day 4 in a row of me initiating zero contact. (Yay me!). This has been by far the most difficult habit for me to break.

Yes, wise ones, YOU WERE RIGHT. Read below:

H initiated, yes I repeat, H INITIATED 2 emails and several texts the last 3 days in a row. I was a doubter. Not anymore. There was only the first 'one day' of no contact at all. None of the emails or texts had any urgent need, and they were still almost all business (no showings for house, mad at realtor now, he has mail for me)

H asked in a text if he could bring mail to me tonight, followed by complaints about the realtor. I thought, well....first of all, the subject changed, so his mail plan was gone for sure .....no way he'll do what he said he would do. (Right, job?) And he didn't. (You were right, job.)

No matter. There are no bills for me that are sent there, by the way. Only junk mail. But, who knows? It could be my Publisher's Clearing House Grand Prize! Do they still do that? Best to win after the post-nup is signed. Eh, I'd take it now, too.

WOW. If that was only my biggest problem today, that I had to share a large cash sum with H.... Lol

H didn't acknowledge his mother's birthday, which was Monday. Old days, I would remind him. Nope, not anymore. So many things like this pop up, where I notice something I would have done for him, or would have reminded him to do.

On a serious note, H stepdad was moved into an assisted living center today. He doesn't have a terminal illness diagnosed, or anything. He's 85-ish, 12 years older than MIL. I had already heard last week from MIL that this was happening. H told me in a text around 9:00pm that was the reason he didn't bring mail, as H was moving SDad's things for him. I was shocked he would even mention my mail with that going on. They really bounce thoughts, don't they?

Here was the conv:

H: Sorry I did not get back with you about your mail. (Fyi I didn't ask anything about mail) I just now got home for the evening. Mom put (SDad) in a nursing home and I was moving things to the home.

Me: No worries. Is SDad ok?

H: He seems the same. I think it's moms stress

Me: How do you feel about it?

H: It's sad to know he won't see much out of the walls of a nursing home much for the rest of his life.

Me: That is so very sad. I'm sorry.

That was it tonight. Changes in behavior that I notice, subtle, but there.
1. H definitely did start to initiate when I stopped. I didn't believe it until I tried it. The experts are correct.
2. I have slowed my response time from almost immediate, to several hours after H texts. H response time has become almost instantaneous, as he used to let hours go by.
3. I stopped having the last texted word. I would often be he one to "punctuate" the conversation. He can hang instead of me. (except this last one, the example of course, but I felt it was appropriate in this instance)
4. I used to be the one who was thorough, reviewing every topic and question that was asked, and communicating responses accordingly. Now, if I leave things out, he sometimes follows up.

So, onward.

Resume has been updated. Job searching is already beating me up. Time for a break.

Rambling, now. Going to check out y'all's threads smile


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Oh well maybe it's a new job with more $ waiting for you.

I have a date in September for h mediation app, so now weeks of waiting which I don't do well. I have instigated a joke thread as part of my thread to keep my mind off

He's still nc! I guess mediation scared him. He's fear based.


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Shining - sorry about your job. really, but the Good thing(s) are

Your current boss sounds like a jerk- find a job with a nicer boss.

You do not like project type work of busy/slack (some thrive on it) so a job where you are consistently busy may suit you better.

Since it is all change this may be the time for a nicer job.

Where I live you cannot get rid of a worker simply to replace them with someone cheaper. Dismissal is more complicated than many bosses realise these days, especially bullies, who tend to be know it alls. I would check out your rights here. You do not have to stand on them but it might be good to remind your boss even if it is to buy more time.

If this helps, some years back, my eldest son did not like what was going on in his law firm and he said so (he did a consult with another firm and they confirmed that he was correct) He told his firm he could not do as they asked, and they let him go with a good reference and three months full pay. He got another job with a better firm in a better location and is now on partner track. Just so you know it can be positive. Oh and his wife was ill at the time, so it was a brave thing to do.

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Hi Shining,
Sorry to hear about your job. Boss seems like an a$$ to me . We all have had bosses like that! I also have a job where there are "down times" and times of going "all out". To me it sounds like you have handled your sitch well as it relates to your work. To tell someone that taking a day and half off because of H's suicide attempt is too much is such an awful thing to do! Sounds to me like he's just looking for an excuse.

I KNOW my sitch has effected my work. My W choose a very bad time to pull he MLC as I had just started a new job at a brand new company. W had pushed me to take this job saying she would make enough to get us through until I started to make more $, then left me with negative balance in the checking account! So much damage caused by the person we had always thought we could count on!

Hang in there, you'll do great. Like others have said, this could end up being a blessing! You will get a chance to meet new people and may find a much better position!

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Hi Shinning,

A similar thing happened to me as well in June. Employers look at the statistic of the impact a divorce has on an employees productivity. Some will not stand by the employee, even if they are the best employee in the world, but will cut and run.

I am taking it as a sign that I need to find a new direction. I am taking some time off to get most of the clutter in my life cleared up. I will then take as long as I need to explore opportunities before choosing a new direction. It is scary as I have three teen daughters living with me and a boat load of expenses.

I would suggest that you look into yourself and take time to explore where you want to go with your life. Get some lingering projects finished and clear your head for the great future that is waiting for you.


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Shining,
When it rains, it pours, huh?

You will get through this, and come out the other side invincible!!!

Hang in there!


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Shining,

I'm sorry about the job as well. I echo what everon says above-you've gotten great advice . When one door closes, another one opens.



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Thank you for the encouragement, everyone. I need it more than I sometimes care to admit.

Just got back from meeting with L. Disappointed, but not too surprised.

I'm in a state that does not have the option for legal separation. L was a big-time D promoter, which I expected. That's his job, and his interest. And his $$$.

But, the law is the law, and that's what I needed to know. I can try and do a post-nup or "partition" which would separate assets, etc. per whatever h and I agree to. BUT.... it is only a contract, and if H goes and spends and accumulates debt, etc, in the event of D, I would have to sue him separately to enforce it the contract and recover any damages. And if he doesn't have any $$ to pay, well, we all know how far suing can get you sometimes. So, there's the risk.

The good news, is we don't have much that is joint. No joint CC. No joint vehicles. The house is for sale already. No other big property. We each have our own retirement. We don't have kids together, I have child support that takes care of them. My kids are D13 and S15, so they're not little.

So I would be risking a ton of money in potential debt, and my credit, if I don't file for a D. L pushed hard.

If I decide to do nothing, and he spirals further financially, I would have to start all over like many on his board, have limited options due to bad credit, have to work harder and possibly never get to retire, but would still be ok, and so would my kids. Not a great option either.

This is a lot to consider. He is one sick puppy, but I still love him. I believe in our marriage, in our vows, and I believe in miracles. But I also know there are no guarantees.

Here I am already, at the crossroads.... of going against my faith and my gut, or cutting my losses before they potentially get worse.


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Quote:
of going against my faith and my gut, or cutting my losses before they potentially get worse.


That is so tough Shining... that is one thing (of many) my impeding D is relieving me from, her financial irresponsibility affecting the kids lives any more. And from the stories here, you can guess-timate the probability of further disaster based on how/what you know of your H.

Please be very logical and business-minded... The door to reconciliation can be left open if you want it to be, D is just a piece of paper, right? Protect you and the kids.

I got several consultations with different Ls, very interesting since I am not doing an "angry" D, a couple didn't know what to do with that...lol! So I moved on and found 2 that will listen to ME, and how I want to do this D.

And you are doing AMAZING, btw...

smile

Last edited by TSquared2; 08/01/14 05:37 PM.

In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus

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Shining, like you I was not keen on divorce, but I do wish I had done it sooner, on financial and emotional grounds.

Please re-read Ambivalent's thread again - these guys can rack up bills as if there were no tomorrow.

The sooner it is over the quicker we can at least try to move on with our lives.

As it was my divorce dragged on 2 years, due to my xh's obstructions, even though he was the one who wanted the divorce. MLCers are not like other people> crazy

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Bea,
I agree w/you 100% that mlcers are not like other "normal" people when it comes to dragging divorce proceedings out.

Shining, when people come to this forum or on other online MLC forums, they think that their spouses will not cheat or take them to the cleaners, but there aren't too many that don't cheat, lie or take you to the cleaners. It is very important that you protect your assets, keep a close watch on your credit cards and bank accounts, as well as taking care of yourself, physically, mentally and emotionally. This is a very difficult journey and one not for the faint of heart. It is a marathon, not a sprint by any means.


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Shining,

Please listen to these wise posters Tsquared, Bea, and Job are spot on. You have to remember that the man you married is gone. He has done many things you didn't think were even within the realm of possibility. Your h's word is just that-words.



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Wow. That brings back memories. I was you at one point smile

Quote:
This is a lot to consider. He is one sick puppy, but I still love him. I believe in our marriage, in our vows, and I believe in miracles. But I also know there are no guarantees.

Here I am already, at the crossroads.... of going against my faith and my gut, or cutting my losses before they potentially get worse.


It is a lot to consider and not something to do lightly. My ex and I were married young and for 20 years (almost to the day.) Like you, I got the "something's wrong with me" and "ILYBINILWY" speeches. My MIL saw something was wrong and offered brazil nuts to my ex, to try and help her. Her mom's nutty to say the least (I know, bad pun) smile Eventually, my ex blamed me for everything she could think of (I didn't get the cat pregnant. Just sayin') and now has a H who won't let her forget those things she's accused me of smile

I didn't contest nor fight the divorce. I decided early on to help her move out. I helped pack, move, etc. I was very friendly and fairly easy going. I still loved my wife. To be honest, I suspect she still loved me as well. Still might, but I wish that would stop.

I visited several lawyers. They really do try to egg you on. They try to play your emotions. My ex said she wouldn't do x, y, z. That was more like a pre-cursor to what she was going to do.

Interview some more lawyers. Find one that works for you. The MC gave me several lawyers and even rated them. She told me that all three were excellent lawyers, two of them were very good with kids, and one of them was a real a**hole if that's what I wanted to get. The MC saw from the beginning what was going on and was very helpful in helping me keep perspective. She knew both of us which helped as well.

I chose a lawyer that would look out for my kids even at my expense if I chose it. I'm very glad I did. I don't regret one cent spent on the lawyer. By the end of it, even my W's lawyer didn't like her (Wife) and both of them fought for me and my kids.

Keep looking, shining. You do need to protect yourself. As T mentioned, you can leave the door open. You can reconcile it with your faith. I am and have been several times, the president of a local congregation. I have a very active faith. It was not what I wanted, but I don't get to make all the choices, ya know? My ex's cheating helped on that front but mostly it was some very long and sometimes heated conversations with friends and the pastor to help me reconcile my faith with what was going on.

Hope that helps,
AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
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Thank you for telling me some hard truths, sharing your experience, and reminding me that as LNG as our hearts are beating, there is always a chance at a new R. H is not who I married. I don't want this person. I believe I know what I need to do. I just can't say it yet. Not out loud. I'll get there, just need to sit with this for a while.


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T,
That's interesting what you said about being a nice client! Today's L didn't know how to take me, either, since I was not angry! I was speaking very matter-of-fact, logically, not emotionally. (Is that a small sign of detachment? Or no...). He was very familiar with MLC cases. He told me how crazy some of them have gotten. Also that most post-nups he has worked on were for some extremely wealthy clients that didn't want a D because they were afraid of their reputation being ruined in he newspapers....

B,
I'm sorry yours was so difficult. If I remember correctly, was your MLCer one of the more "mean" ones? Mine is still pretty mean, has mellowed some, but still spews and is in a HUGE hurry to sell the house. He fired the realtor already after 2 weeks. Your experience and advice are telling. This is a no-brainer.... Sigh.

job,
Everything you have told me in past posts has been spot on thus far. I'm listening and learning. H told me the one time he mentioned D that we could slowly separate things like car insurance and bills (already mostly done), and after that we wouldn't need to get attorneys bc they are "the only ones getting rich". H said he wanted it done fast. I wonder if that urgency changes when I file, simply for the sake of being defiant? Anything is possible.

G,
Yup. He's gone alright. Keep telling me, please. It really does help to read over and over, especially when it's about my own H, on my own thread. I can have a ridiculously clear point of view on others' sitches that I can't see in my own.

AJ,
I must go back again and read your thread.... I do remember much of the unbelievably destructive behavior you and the kids had to deal with, but the money part is foggy... I think I first started reading the threads to find stories of reconciliation, how-to get H back, then shifted to how to DB4me! I know I glazed over the money issues early on, due to, oh..... Idk.... Denial. I was a master;)


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Other side of life....

After the low blow yesterday, today went better at work. Had a meeting with boss. He was very supportive of whatever I need to do, and was telling me he will help me find a job, give me a great referral, and that no one needs to know anything unless I tell them. That when I leave, I can tell people I needed a higher paying position since I have 2 in college...etc. IMO, his efforts today were helpful, but it felt like it was to ease his guilt, and so he will not look so schmucky.

Made dinner, laughed with kiddos (it still counts if they're laughing "at" me, not with me).

Time for my personal meeting.

Hi. I'm Shining. (Hi, Shining.) I'm a recovering pursue-a-holic.

Today was day #5 of NOT initiating contact. (Whoop, whoop!) Day 1 was 0 communication, but days 2-5, all initiated by H. No big deal to some, perhaps, but this was HARD for me.

Last night, H again reached out to D13 (she is his stepdaughter, but his "favorite" of the 6, and the only one of mine he contacts). "I wanted to let you know I am thinking about you. I hope you're holding up well. Do you like volleyball?"

She told h she loves it, asked h to keep her in mind if he comes across any balls (oh,.....I know), and that was about it. (H gets sports stuff from work)

For me, this morning was new. I got 3 texts in a row from h at 7:50am.

What's your license #
I figured it out. Can you get your own toll tag and I will take yours off my account
How are you?


I do know better than to be overjoyed, however, this was the first time since S he asked how I was. I know bc I've been watching for it....

I didn't respond until 10.

I'm good
sorry super busy


I'm so tempted to ask how he is, as that's what I would normally do. But I didn't. I have no clue what to do other than continue to stay out if his way, and know that these little hints of old H are inconsistent, fleeting, and currently, meaningless.

He sent more texts tonight, "I have your mail and need to talk to you about the house sale soon no one is looking at it need to drop the price a lot." (Me) "to what?" H "I don't know I need a real estate agent to tell me how much and sell it."

Sounds like he's stressed. Pre-MLC, H was always a thinker, slowly process info then decide. Now he is impulsive and impatient, huge sense of urgency to sell he house. He is the classic "mirrored image of his old self."

It is SO fascinating to read examples and advice from experienced DBer's on various threads and archives, and then recognize when the same thing happens in my own tunnel-swallowed world.

Oh, H probably still has OW, but I know nothing. Didn't break it, can't fix it, can't control anyone but myself. I went to the LIFE store. And I got one


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" I went to the LIFE store. And I got one."

What time do they open on Saturdays? I'll stop in while I'm out running errands.


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Here I'll trade you mine.
Compliant number 99999999 on h list was I had too much life without him.
Our life was busy and stress filled.

I've made my life simple, well if you read my thread its odd farm simple, y'all gig that right!

Southern drawl and hayseed not withstanding.


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Artsy, the beauty is that they are always open! You just have to get out there and look! grin


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GG,

He didn't like that you had too much life without him? While you were together?

So.... He didn't like you doing fun things without him. So he left.... So you can do more fun things without him. And that is supposed to make him happy how?

Nothing makes sense anymore, does it?
I love simple. Odd farm simple, sure! Gig em, y'all! wink


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His flawed thought process was every thing took my attention from him. Having work friends having work change shifts inferred in his life and was personal. He didn't like the thought any person close can manage, I always could.

Trying to make an attempt to look better, brought accusation of affairs. So did being tired so did most stuff.

Every complaint i addressed turned 180 and back! Now I know better it was all mostly spew.


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Don't feel bad. My W said many crazy things as to way she HAD to leave. As I changed and addressed each one, it got to the point that she had to leave because of the "way you chew your food". She also told me that we could take our time before getting a D, keep insurance together, etc. than went to L and suddenly all that changed. Now she is only concerned about what SHE can get.

The LBS must be careful. No matter how "kitty Kat" they start out, in the end almost all the MLCers end up destroying everyone around them. They just can't seem to help it.

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Oh I've just remembered a complaint[ apparently I am 'such an all or nothing person' This from someone who ditched his family and had very little contact for years, except to spew at them. It made me laugh.

It is true that I value truthfulness commitment and fidelity

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Rolls eyes,

We must be twins bea, either do or do not!

I talked to much, when I became less wordy I was silent and moody! Man just make up your mind already.

My compliant he was always setting me up in a no win position.


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I have noticed with MLCers that if we work we put everything ahead of them and if we stay at home we didn't contribute to the income.

We never ever clean the house right - either obsessive or sluts. And we always feed them the wrong food. My xh tried to blame his illness subsequent to his leaving me (more than two years on) to the diet I fed him. Strange that no-one else got ill.

As for how we are in bed - don't get me started . . . .

I had forgotten all of this stuff, and now it is coming back it is making me really laugh!

They are world class at creating no-win situations. Guilt or what? No idea

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My w would get upset this past winter if I started her car and cleaned the ice and snow off from it before I went to work or if I didn't.

I would rather be the one the bitterness is being dumped on than the one filled with it.


Me: 55, W: 46
T: 17 M: 15
S: 10
3 S prev M
25 23 21
Unhappy 10/12
Asked to move out 1/14
NILWY 2/14
Sep rooms: 1/14
BD 3/14
W filed 5/14
Trial 12/14


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I see humor. I want to participate. Beatrice, your posts are so authentic-I love them. My h thought I kept the house too clean (thinking about this makes me laugh). Maybe he needed glasses? He didn't like the way I unloaded the dishwasher. When I suggested he unload it, well, you know what the answer to that was. He didn't like the way I did laundry and he had turned the washer on once in 6 years. I actually had to show him how our fancy new wm worked.
Of course, one of my favorites was post BD when my key broke off in the front door and he had to come let me and the kids in. He said I unlocked the door wrong. At that point the kids were laughing at what he said asked yet again what was wrong with him. Not to mention I had been opening the door the same for 6 years. Other than inserting key and turning, how else do you open the door with a key. Okay, now Im laughing.

Matt, I hope you are working on chewing your food differently.

Shining , you are so funny. Yes, you have to look at what's valid and work on it for you. The other stuff, like your atrociously large pores? Just laugh and move on:-)


Last edited by Georgiabelle; 08/02/14 11:47 AM.


3 kids
BD 12/15/13 (IDKIILY. )
Rope dropped Cirque du Soleil style
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Hey Shining. I hear they have s BOGO at the Life store today. I will go get a happy life and a grateful life.

Sorry to hear about the job. I bet you and the kids will be able to name a lot of what is good about tnat! Chance to find job of your dreams. . Fresh start and new people where you control flow of information etc.


Me 44 H 42
M 10 T 12 (at time of BD)
Ss 20 16
S11 (special needs)

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Who had the circle of contagion?

My xh acted as if I were acutely infectious were he to come within about 4 yards of me, for about 5 years. I once sat on the other end of a very large sofa, and he got up and moved away at once. Ideally he preferred not to be in the same room. I couldn't hand him a beverage, but had to put it down and then he would come and pick it up.

It was so strange. Now he tries to hug me if we meet (yes this is the same man who is suing me) Not that we meet often - the last time was sometime in January/February 2013. We occasionally speak on the phone, but I try not to take his calls. He never ever leaves messages

Oh and during the middle of all this 2006 or 2007 we went out to dinner to discuss divorce and he started feeding me his dessert off a spoon. He never normally did that kind of thing. Maybe he felt safe in a public place grin

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Yup. If I accidentally brush against him in the hall he acts like he needs to jump in the shower. Ha. Maybe I should bump him more often. His personal grooming has taken a nose dive.


Me 44 H 42
M 10 T 12 (at time of BD)
Ss 20 16
S11 (special needs)

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Oh dear ladies, I have tears rolling down my face!

My cheeks hurt!

So where do we sign up for eating classes? I'm sure he complained about it.
He ate pizza with a knife and fork! Refused to eat soup with a soup spoon.

Personally I was thumped for not suing the right cutlery at the table as a child so eating soup with the wrong spoon, was just not manners. I love the fact he chipped me on manners all the time.

Walking lightly classes?
Do they have a cure for the circle of contagen, I'm sure I had that one, and now I've filed for mediation I have bionic plague. Personally I love that one.


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This is kind of a fun thread. Got a nice groove smile

This made me nod my head vigorously in agreement:
Quote:
I would rather be the one the bitterness is being dumped on than the one filled with it.
YES. But it took a long time to see that, believe it or not. I thought I did many times, but it took a while.

One of my favorites, since we're sharing, is that I walk too loud and it was just to get to her. I talked about it in my threads somewhere back - it was like the Telltale Heart. She was sleeping in the upstairs MIL suite (never worked very well) and when I'd come into the kitchen (just below) after working all day etc, she complained that I stomped around so it would bother her. This was roughly about the same time she started cheating, told me she wanted to date people two at a time and bring 'em in the house etc.

I think Tad's was funny too. His was angry he didn't take her to the "right" grocery store.

There's a thread around here somewhere with some of the craziest things LBS's heard. Kind of a hall of fame thing - you would not stop laughing if you heard some of those... smile


To be serious for a moment. The job thing sux, but I have to say that changing jobs, for me, was helpful. I was able to get away from people that knew about the divorce, the cheating, etc. Kind of nice to not have to talk or hear about it any longer, I have to admit. There's always something bright on the other side of it - if you find it.

As for the pursuit. Don't worry about how that goes. You need to do things for you in that regard. I know you miss him. And he likely finds this difficult as well (believe it or not) but be sure to do these things for you. You need to heal and get to a place you can open up again - that starts with taking the focus off of him and putting it back on you. You'll have to be a little selfish here.

Put your effort into it and it'll start to get better sooner than later. More positive too.

AJ


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the thread AJ mentioned is one of my favorite as well.. when I got confused on the " maybe it' s me ? " I would re-read and remember actions and words from xh that would reassure me that I was the sane and responsible parent here !! Here is the link if you are interested :

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2209013&page=1

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Exquisite,
Oh, my, those are some doozies!

Scorecard: NIC day 6 and counting. Yay me!

New stuff:

Today, SD19 who lives in H house, texted me asking about whether H smoked "weed" when we were together.....

Ummm, no.

SD19 is very concerned because the guy we knew as the quiet, meat-and-potatoes man, is now getting his groovy on every night and during the day on weekends. She is no saint in the behavior department, but I'm sure it's shocking to see your own dad behave like a teenager. She asked if he will get worse, do I think he will do harder substances, and could he lose his job.

I texted back, "First, I hate that you have to be there to see this stuff. But, yes, anything is possible. I'm sorry because this has to hurt you to watch him self destruct. It is exactly what they do with this illness. (I haven't said MLC to her. I took the great advice from this board, tho) He has and will continue to become a mirror image of who he was. He will do things you never thought in a million years he would do. He is becoming someone you won't recognize for a few years at the very least. Best to love him from afar, detach the best you can, and pray. You didn't break him, and you can't fix him. No one can. I'm sorry. This whole thing stinks for everyone."

She responded about the different personality:

"It's okay.. I feel like he's in a midlife crisis. Like all the sudden he's doing all these things and he's really cocky now like he thinks he's really good looking and his sh*t don't stink. And he just left to get a manipedi "

Wow. Mr. meat and potatoes getting a mani-pedi. Priceless.

SD19 also asked how long does this last, talked about how different he is, and also this: "Well now he's come up with a brilliant plan that he's gonna be a broker like grandpa".

After 20 years in his business, he's planning to change careers and become a broker.

I'm not surprised. There is an element of shock in the initial processing, but it fits the frame I have come to recognize. Idk hard to explain.


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That threads a doozie.

I love that my h hasn't been to house and doesn't contact, when I say

I do not want you coming onto my property.

He carries on like a slapped him and took away his toy trains. I stated and enforced his action. crazy

Oh that's right I said m son and his son are allowed to have a relationship without his interference. I took away his control!


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Remember the 1994 movie The Mask? laugh mad sick

How can H be showing confusion, forgetfulness, impatience, have the "gray" skin and dead eyes in certain situations, but seems to be able to continue "as always" at work, like friggin Stanly Ipkiss, and be "normal H" the couple of times he has seen family?

Is this something that will change over time?

SD19 and SS20 have seen the irrational behavior. But I get confused because H mom sent a text to me after H and BIL moved H SDad into senior home. She said H looked very good to her, and he has lost some weight, too! (H has never been overweight a day in his life, but H mom would tell him he looks like he gained weight nearly every time we visited her).

I guess I wanted to hear he looked miserable? That's not right. I shouldn't want someone I love to look or be miserable. I guess I just want him to be miserable without me.

How does this "mask" stuff work?

Is this what they call the "Jekyll and Hyde" MLCer?


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Not sure you'll find that it's Jekyll and Hyde. When it comes to MIL's assessment, have you considered the source? smile She wants him to be "OK" and so, she sees him as "OK". Never mind that inside he's a raging mess. She's not looking for that.

Work? What were his choices again?

The thing is, you wouldn't be happy if he was miserable. If he fell apart. You'd feel vindicated perhaps, but not happy to see him suffer. Be careful what you may wish for, right?

The "Mask" is very appropriate, Shining. Some would argue he's been wearing a mask most of his life and it recently slipped.

Why is MIL telling you that he looks great? That seems a little off to me?

AJ


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I remember that movie! My H is a huge Jim Carrey fan. I think that describes them the best.

I read on another post or book somewhere that the MLCer will appear "normal" around others, work, family, etc. I've often thought of contacting H's mom to find out what she thinks, but I agree with AJ. MIL will say something like "he seems happy and doing well." that will NOT be what I want to hear, but I also don't really want him miserable either.

I'm new to this too Shining and I'm hoping the "masks" don't last forever!


Atsbaby
M:36 H:35
T: 19 M:12
S:11
D:9
BD: 5/4/14
Proof of OW 8/13/14-love note from her
8/19 admits OW
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AJM, yyyeeessssssss!!!! Oh, she is more than a little "off".... I didn't even consider the possibility of her seeing only what she wants to see in her own son. (DUH...face-palm). She has been the most vocal about being disappointed in him... That was early days. I rarely speak to any of the IL's now.

I don't want to ever hear he is miserable. I couldn't stand to see him hurting during our marriage, no matter the cause. Even if we D, go our separate ways, and never see each other again, I would feel the same. I'm not wired to carry anger for long. Never was. Confusion and denial, maybe. Not anger wink.

It amazes me how one example MIL sentence can demonstrate her off-ness.... And how perceptive you were to pick that up!


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Ats,

H went to IL's for Easter this past year, the first time alone. It was days after BD. My IL's said he seemed fine and normal. I asked hem at the time, "And that doesn't concern you??? Do you think he SHOULD appear normal after declaring he wants to end a marriage????

They got real quiet.

Yup, we're both so new to this mess. Sounds like we have quite a long "sentence" to serve. I'm so grateful for this board and the wisdom shared. I hope to learn enough to pay it forward one day.


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Shining - I used to puzzle over this ability to appear 'normal' to some people. My eldest son's view is 'Dad can do 'normal' for a short period but then the cracks start to show'.

Also the closer they are to people, the more obvious it is there is something wrong. Most MLCers do not have a close emotional bond or the usual sort with their parents . . if they did they probably wouldn't be in MLC.

I don't know if you have seen a fascinating study of identical twins - the closer you are to them the less likely you are to be fooled, even for a minute, whereas acquaintance and casual friends can be taken in by one posing as the other for long periods.

In other words we pick up more cues when we are close to someone. And I also agree with AJ that to some extent people see what they want to see.

Soon after my xh left me, some former friends told me he was fine and never happier, whereas when I met up with him to discuss the separation and money matters, he looked terrible, really terrible. The former friends supported my xh (the only ones that did, and interestingly they have made overtures to me in the last few years, which I have replied to politely - (I think that NOW they can see he is really crazy).

I always tell them that I am fine, and life could not be better!

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Hey Shining, sorry I havent been around. You have been in real good hands and have been doing so well. Good on you.

So, just a couple of things about the mask. When you are depressed, you put all your energy into appearing ok when you need to. But you cant keep that up all the time. It spills over eventually.

They try to appear "happy" to others. Otherwise, all that they did will seem crazy. If they arent happy, then they were wrong. They cant handle that.

But you are right, you dont want him to hurt anymore than he already is.

He is struggling a great deal. It really is a sad thing. Hard to remember that at times, I know.

So, are you continuing to do self work? GALing? Your kids doing well?

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Yeap, the mask is true, but with my back to him and 10m away I could tell he wasn't ok or normal. I could feel it and hear it!

Nods, I was ok in a great place felt strong relaxed, but him not ok, not fine.
He should be on top of the world new ow, family who support no mater how crazee you act, but alas stuck out like dogs b!


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Quote:
If they arent happy, then they were wrong. They cant handle that.


Ain't that the truth though!

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uR, so glad to see you pop back in, thank you. I hope all is well with you lately smile

What you wrote makes much sense. We were really crazy about each other. I can't imagine he is as glad to be rid of us as he was acting. He has softened a significant amount toward me in the past month. Very cordial and polite. Complains about realtor, but that's the only time I've seen frustration from him for a long time, but we have very few interactions.

As far as GAL, I have 4 kids, 2 just graduated and turned 18. They all keep me pretty busy, but still time for me.

Fun stuff:
This summer we have gone to movies, went to a simulated sky-diving place (so cool), and a few times gone out to eat.

Kids' activities:
S15 started archery, a progressive program similar to achieving a new belt in Karate, D13 started volleyball and continues soccer. None of their activities are top level competitive, mostly for fun and exercise. I want them active, but not overbooked.

Older boys work full-time. One of the twins is going into the Army. The other is going to college, locally. They are busy, but very responsible and helpful to their mama.

Me:
I work full-time, and have a physical trainer I started working with in March. I meet with him 1-2 times per week. I usually go for a walk on my off days. I read. I go to counseling. We all go to counseling, actually. And church.

There is a church group I discovered that is geared toward people struggling with difficulties with a spouse that has an addiction, affairs, other stuff.... It seems to be a good group to look into.

I have two close friends that I meet with, but scheduling is tough. They are very busy. Hoping to expand my social circle with a group.

I also started job hunting... Not sure if you saw that post frown .

I'm getting there.

This is truly the hardest thing I've been through. I'll list it all at some point. Don't care to put it all in one place at the moment because I'm working on my.....

PMA TODAY, BAYBAY!!! (That would be acting "as if")


M44, H44, both M before
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BD 7/13 ILYB something isn't right with me
H att suicide 2/14
S 4/14
OW disc 5/14
D final 4/15
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Bea,

You describe my H almost exactly. It's amazing how he can put it on for them. And my reaction was the same as yours, if I read correctly. I can't believe this is even possible sometimes! It's enough to make me question whether I'm the one who is losing it! H kids have experienced a lot and that is validating, but more so, it's sad. I'm sad they have to see this.

Also the part about not being wrong.... Ding! Yup. That's him.


M44, H44, both M before
M4 yrs, T6
BD 7/13 ILYB something isn't right with me
H att suicide 2/14
S 4/14
OW disc 5/14
D final 4/15
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GG,

I believe I can sense his moods behind the mask, too. Its hard to see him try so hard to fool me. I'm baffled that others don't see it, but what Bea wrote explains that, since we are closer to them and know their mannerisms better.

I once called his work and the tone of his voice on the outgoing vm message.... PLEASE !!!! It sounds like he's trying so hard to be cheery and it's almost laughable. The voice is NOTHING like he used to speak on his message! It's so perky and phony! Not genuinely happy. Forced.

sick sick sick BLEH.


M44, H44, both M before
M4 yrs, T6
BD 7/13 ILYB something isn't right with me
H att suicide 2/14
S 4/14
OW disc 5/14
D final 4/15
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Next thread:

"For better or for worse, for richer or for PORES?"

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2475846&#Post2475846

You knowit. wink


M44, H44, both M before
M4 yrs, T6
BD 7/13 ILYB something isn't right with me
H att suicide 2/14
S 4/14
OW disc 5/14
D final 4/15
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