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I agree with Starkey, Train that was awesome stuff. I just got a little more hopeful in my Sitch. Thank you!!


Me 47/W 34
T 16 M 13
No kids
BD 6/2013
W asked that I move out 6/2013
I moved back and W is upset with this 12/2013
separate beds not much talking
Served D Complaint 5/2014
W moved out 9/27/2014
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As did I (NOPkins). It's why I'm still here, Train. It's extremely rewarding when someone takes it, applies it, and just basically RUNS with it . . . not only succeeding (work in progress), but takes the time to help OTHERS do the same.

Much respect, ma'am. wink


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Sorry Starsky my fingers typed your name wrong above


Me 47/W 34
T 16 M 13
No kids
BD 6/2013
W asked that I move out 6/2013
I moved back and W is upset with this 12/2013
separate beds not much talking
Served D Complaint 5/2014
W moved out 9/27/2014
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,433
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Backatcha, Starsky.

It actually also helps me stay focused on my goals to stick around and share my experiences. So hopefully it's win-win.

I am glad it provides you with some hope, nit.

Hope is important to hang onto. wink


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
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Train-

Your post was great. It really made me think. I have actually read through your entire threads before after I saw starsky recommended them to someone. Although my sitch isn't the same as yours what you have posted to Sam really made me think about ME. Especially when you talked about H asking you to send him pictures. I used to do that for H. The last year things changed and I became less interested in sex. Not really sure why. I believe I got content in what you said - he would never leave. I think he is too far gone with OW so I'm not sure I can fix that now but I just wanted to say I really appreciated what you wrote. Sam I'm sorry to hijack your thread but listen to the great advice here! Were all rooting for you


M 31 H 34
S 6 S 9
BD 2/14 Piecing 8/14
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Originally Posted By: nit84
Sorry Starsky my fingers typed your name wrong above


No problem. If it helps your marriage, you can call me Schmedlap if you want to. crazy


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Excellent Train. Well done.


Starsky... nice job of helping her along.
Very good. wink


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Thanks Tarheel, Train, Starsky, & everyone else!

Train -
Thank you so much for the inspiring post. I know there are a couple of different camps on the boards about A's. I'm in Starskys camp!

Actually many of the things I have already told my H in our very limited conversations are direct Starsky quotes.

Sorry in advance but this will be long.

I read & reread more of your (train) whole stitch last night. I know my h is being a total a$$ but in reality this is not the man I married. I saw in one of your posts that you wrote the same about your H. My H was a hard working guy - who loved me more than anything, he respected me & we had a lot of fun together.
I felt like my H was a safe choice for marriage. He was crazy about me & I didn't think anything would change that. I thought at the very least he would still show up during the crazy time of having little kids & babies.


He changed with the porn stuff during/after pregnancy with Baby 2. And further changed when he went to work out of town & live like a bachelor during the week.

How fun is it to come home after going out all week to kids runny noses, throwing up & Disney Jr. on the tv. He actually said, "I feel like the kids run the house. I can't even watch Espn because they want to watch their shows before bed." And we do have more than one Tv but he didn't want to have to watch Tv somewhere other than living room.

I think I changed/lost myself after I got pregnant with Baby #3. About a year ago. Baby was a bit of a surprise but I *thought* we were both ambivalent about another baby. If it happens, it happens. H was not too happy. He was concerned he would not get to bond with Baby b/c of his work schedule.

I don't do pregnancy well. So in addition to keeping my head in the toilet most of the time until October, I gained a ton of weight, looked awful, felt awful & was struggling to take care of D5 & S3. And very hormonal - b!tch. My house became a wreck. I'm usually very neat & clean. Then baby stayed in Nicu for a month & more things went unkept at the house.

So to answer your question- The Sam he loved was fun to be around, laughed a lot, I wore cute clothes & make up, I was loving towards him, I respected myself & I was not taking any crap from anyone. I was a flight attendant at one time & I had my own life. He pursued/chased me for years. Even in one of our early break ups in our early 20's. I dated someone else, and so did he. But he was always saying & telling everyone he wanted to be with me.

After we had kids they became my life, I only wore makeup if we were going out. Then with the last pregnancy - I felt like crap & looked like crap.

He told our MC that he saw me as a mom - a good mom, but just a mom, I'm boring & have no fun anymore.

Since BD 2 months ago, I have lost 45 pounds. All the baby weight & then some.
I can fit in all my cute clothes. And I wear them. No more yoga pants. I wear makeup almost every day & definitely every time I see him & my hair is fixed. This is who I am. I'm a very girly girl. I love make up & I always keep my hair foiled & flat ironed.
No more ponytails.
My house is organized & clean. I'm not calling to ask him how to fix this or that. I'm just doing it.
I have been going out to with my girlfriends more. As much as I can without leaving too much on someone else - remember I have a 5 yo, 4 yo, & 5 month old baby.
I'm at the beach this weekend. I have friends who have a condo here. So I got a room, doing some thinking & will be hanging with friends & going out tonight.

For the 4th of July we always stayed home. This year, I had the kids. I got my mom to watch the baby & I took the kids to see fireworks. We met up with friends & my D5 told him how much fun we had.

I have a close cousin who is a guy- he got divorced last year but he has a daughter the same age as mine. She has been spending time with my kids & while the kids swim. He & I just sit on the back porch & have a couple of beers.
My H said to me that evening "I wish you could have done that with me."

I'm not going to make 180's to win my husband back. I'm doing the things I would be doing if he was part of my life or not. One thing I'm really working on is arguing with him or trying to persuade someone in to my way of thinking. My friends & family tell me I should have been a lawyer because I like people to see things from my point of view. But I'm realizing, it's not so important to be "right" all the time. And I know this drove H crazy.

I feel like I know who I am & I actually like myself. I don't want to change the core of my being. I just got the push to start being her again. Of course there are things that I need to work on in the marriage but I don't think that the Sam, he fell in love with is that far buried.

And I'm really struggling with maybe I should just allow him to be who he wants to be and not who I want him to be. If he wants to watch porn & go to strip clubs & run around like he's 21 - I know I need to let him. I can't fix him. But, that's not the kind of husband I want or need.

Our interactions are so limited, I only see him every 2 weeks when either he gets home & I leave. Or he picks the big kids up & they leave.

He calls every evening to talk to kids. But we don't talk about anything besides kids or house issues. He asks how baby is, what Dr appnt are that week & what the Dr said, Actually the first time he has volunteered any info about himself in 2 months was to tell me that the dry cleaners ruined his clothes last week.

I exposed his affair to him & close family members in the middle of June. I drew the boundary no communication in our family home & around the kids. I saw the texts & some were while he was out driving my kids around. I told him if it continued he would not be visiting kids every weekend. We would go to an every other weekend visitation schedule just like in a divorce.

The next week when he was back down to work - he bought a burner phone.
I saw it in the bank account. I called him & just said we would need to sign a calendar to agree to a schedule. He doesn't know that I know about the phone.
If you go to my previous thread around 6/23 - I
Posted our text exchanges there.

I'm in the camp of drawing hard boundaries. He has had no boundaries for way too long. Which is part of the reason why we are in this situation. I stopped standing up for myself & he kept taking, taking. And he has no financial transparency.

This week my D5 told me daddy has 2 phones now, 1 for texting & 1 for taking pictures & talking on.
I really feel like he's crossing my boundaries about the phone situation. But I struggle with is it controlling him? I don't think so- he probably sees his girlfriend for 2 weeks straight. Why is using his burner phone in front if my kids in the little time he does see them? Although I can't prove it's to talk to girlfriend. Then it's back to me being the same nagging, b!tch that he doesn't want for a wife.

Then considering last Sunday he said he would like to spend some time together. But didnt mention it Monday night during call to kids, so I asked. He said he wasn't ready, just thinking about it - so I said okay no problem. I don't know if I should be patient? Or try to enforce this phone boundary? I have been dim/dark since beginning of June. I haven't called him in almost 2 months, I don't initiate any texts. I simply & politely respond to his texts. Which are almost always I'm going to call at such & such time. Or how was baby's dr appnt.
He's seeing the changes, in me. He has said so. But not necessarily changes with him & the emotional/physical needs that I wasn't meeting. He said he thought it was great I was going out & visiting my friends..

As I said previously, I was preparing myself to file after school starts because again it's another hard boundary. I don't feel like I'm being self righteous or resentful in doing that. Am I wrong?
This has been almost 3 months since I found out. I feel by doing *nothing* that I'm condoning his actions. Am I missing something here?
I'm not going to live in an open marriage. I told him this too. But, he does pay all the bills. He hasn't changed anything about his financial obligations from before BD. Is inaction the best action for me here?

And I would like to start throwing some of Starskys truth darts his way. But don't know how to effectively do that when we only talk in the phone after he talks to kids & asks about the baby?

Thanks for reading my super long post. I'm glad Starsky & Train have the faith in me to save my marriage.

Thanks in advance for any input/advice. I'm ready to hear it.


H:40
Me:35
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S4
S3 months
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Hey, Sam!

Glad you're enjoying the beach! I'm jealous!!! laugh

Freaky how I felt, while reading about 3/4 of that post, that *I*, myself, had written it. Wowzers.

I'm going to start backwards here. And likely ramble. As usual. wink

I was preparing myself to file after school starts because again it's another hard boundary. I don't feel like I'm being self righteous or resentful in doing that. Am I wrong? This has been almost 3 months since I found out. I feel by doing *nothing* that I'm condoning his actions. Am I missing something here?
First, as Wonka told me, sometimes INaction IS an action. (That's one of my favorite sayings now! wink )

Filing is a personal choice. I wouldn't do it unless I wanted a D. I would definitely NOT do it to prove anything to myself OR my H. And I wouldn't do it to get a reaction. Dig reallyyyyy deep to ask yourself WHY you would consider filing for D if - in your heart of hearts - you want to save your M. Cup doesn't match the saucer there, right?

IMO, three months is not long AT ALL in the grand scheme of DBing. And it's certainly not long enough to go out and pull a D trigger. Some situations move faster than others. And in your case, you can probably expect to tack on a little more time with your H living away most of the time. Factor in the fact that you're having to prove your changes sporadically, with a lot of space in between.

I went ahead and started paperwork for a *legal separation* when my H refused to end his A. I did this for a couple of reasons:

1. H was going to do it anyway, but we had a mutual friend who was a L and offered to represent ME but also to try to work out our formal legal arrangements for BOTH H and me. (This did not work, as you know from reading my threads.)
2. Like you, I'm a SAHM, completely financially dependent on my H. Having a set-in-stone financial figure helped me not only budget for THAT period of time, but it also was going to give me a representative figure that I could use to PLAN my life in the event H and I did not reconcile.
3. Having the separation order determined and dictated child-custody and visitation. A schedule is important here. And the order could then be "the bad guy" when H complained about not having enough time with his kids.

Meanwhile, I told my H I did not want ANY of this. I did not want a D, and I did not want my children growing up in two separate homes, with two separate families. But I would not stand in his way of getting one. I only told him that in a condensed version maybe once a month, in the form of a "truth dart."

I told H that as far as the actual D (we have to wait 12 months between S and D here), he would have to file. All I needed was an order at the onset of our S to establish custody/visitation and his financial obligations. I needed that to protect my children and me. That's it. As an aside: when he found out how much $ he was going to have to pay for child support and alimony (being a SAHM gave me an advantage in that regard), he FLIPPED OUT. Looking back, I think that's when the reality of the sitch really hit home to him. He kept saying the D "would be quick and easy." That's what his L told him. Meanwhile, I told *my* L: "I want it to be painful." Sorry not sorry. As Starsky says, "There's a reason they put that little v. between the names."

Does your state "do" a formal separation agreement that precedes D? Something where your H can see, in black-and-white, how much money he's looking at having to dole out if he continues on this path of marital-destruction with OW? Something tells me he's gonna be paying a pretty penny if he continues with this OW nonsense. Again, I wouldn't even pursue a separation agreement *to get a reaction* or to make a point with him. I HAD to do it because my H had proven that he WOULD pull the financial carpet out from under us (after he did just that in 2005). And I'm sure you remember from my most current sitch that he eventually DID do that ... before the order was signed and the week I was heading to the beach. Ugh. That one STILL gets me ...

Your H sounds very unsure and uncertain about his current predicament. He keeps giving you "crumbs." I'm not sure if I'm feeling he's keeping you as Plan B ... or if he is just really confused and being really selfish but really IS wanting to see some sustained changes in you. It doesn't matter. YOUR work is the same, regardless.

And here's the thing: I called it "OW nonsense" up there. But in truth? There's "sense" in an A. As we've discussed, your H fell into the arms of another woman because YOU were not meeting his needs. I see you holding yourself accountable for that, and taking responsibility for it, so that's why you won't find me harping too much about that right now ...

But still, we have to consider H's history of behaviors now: A fishing trip? Porn and strip clubs? "Only kissing" another woman though she slept in his bed? REALLLLYYYY?!?. You're not only in a great position to hold steady in your more firm approach ... but to REALLY commit to it. This man needs to remember how to respect you! And that starts with YOU, Sam. And it sounds like you're doing one helluva job on that already.

So a firm stance, detaching with love: what does that look like to YOU?

The limited time with your H *is* going to present a challenge to DB. No doubt about it. But it's also giving you some much-needed time to get your chit together and make some much needed changes. And, you have an advantage in that you *already know* you can physically handle your household by yourself. You don't depend on your H for that. That's good. It gives you a GREAT head start as a SAHM. That being said, have you asked for more money from your H so you can better *financially* manage your household? (I'm not suggesting you do it just yet; I'm just curious if you've asked and how he responded.)

What have the Ls told you about the amount of child support/alimony you would receive? Is it less than he's providing now, considering all the bills he's paying AND the "allowance" he's providing?

Now, let's chat about the phone issue.

Okay, you've found out he has a cell phone. How, specifically, does this change/impact you and/or your situation?

A lot of times, Sam, I found myself doing things *just to show H that I wasn't stupid.* Possibly (Probably) that IS ego. And I'm the first to tell you I fight that big, green monster quite a bit. I am working on it. laugh

Here's the other question: What "boundary" would you put in place re: the burn phone? Can you spell it out for me? What purpose would it serve? And can you enforce it? How? What would be the "consequence" to said boundary if H rejects/crosses it?

Let me provide another example from my own sitch (and my H made this burn-phone thing EASY for me): H and I, at the time, were separated. He'd already turned in ONE burn phone, while he was with me at the phone store. (That's when he chose to stay home and "end his A" for the couple weeks immediately after I discovered the affair.) When we separated, he kept the phone that he had for yearssss on our family plan, but he bought a NEW phone that he used for OW. I, therefore, can't technically call it a "burn phone" because we were separated.

I noticed, over the course of a few days, that H would take up to two hours to read and respond to my texts on his "family phone." I KNEW there was NO WAY he could be using that phone anymore, especially considering he was on it *constantly* with OW before. There was NO WAY he would be making OW wait two hours for a response!

So finally, based only on good suspicion, I sent him a text that said essentially: "Can you please provide the number to your new phone? In case of emergencies with the kids, it would be nice to know I could get in touch with you quickly."

It ticked.him.off. He thought I had "followed" him to the phone store, and he went NUTS trying to change all this passwords to everything from our joint bank account to his e-mail account, etc. (I'm really shocked he hadn't thought to do that sooner, but that A fog is CRAZY, ain't it?)

Anyway, I did that - again, shame on me - mainly to show him I'm not stupid. But also because I *really did need to know how to reach him quickly in the event of an emergency*.

Is your H responding quickly to your texts on his "normal phone"? Is he easily accessible if you need to reach him?


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
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Posts: 6,810
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I have a camp? Really??? Ooh, is there a campfire? And MARSHMALLOWS? Can we make s'mores??? Can we???


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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