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Getting a little nervous about the work party tonight. Yesterday, he asked again about going to the party and if I responded on our behalf. He made comments that we should go. Its only right. (although I see his point, I am not sure why he is caring/insisting that I go). He asked again "so, we are going right?"... I answered, "yes, I am going".

I do have anxiety of his pressure to go together. I know its best that I go alone, and am trying not to care about his reaction... I am sure he will suggest that either DD drive us or he will ask what time will "we" be going.

I know I must go alone.

I do not want to send mixed messages that this is acceptable. We are not "friends", nor is this a "date". I am not "available" for fun when he wants me, just to be put back on the shelf again..... NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

Its really hard to say NO to the very things you want from the person you want. It gets confusing.

I must remember my value & my goal of what I WANT..... not cater to what he wants.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


last thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...112#Post2472112


M:46 H:49 T:20yrs
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MM,

The reason you are so horribly STUCK, the way I see it, is because what YOU want is so unhealthily enmeshed in what HE wants (or more accurately, in what you perceive he wants from you).

You should be doing a LOT more studying about "enmeshed relationships" and "co-dependency."

I firmly believe that THERE, you will begin to find the answers to this unhealthy addiction you have to your xBF.

Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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Quote:
Yesterday, he asked again about going to the party and if I responded on our behalf. He made comments that we should go. Its only right. (although I see his point, I am not sure why he is caring/insisting that I go). He asked again "so, we are going right?"... I answered, "yes, I am going".


First, you shoul have been honest and upfront and gave the man a decent answer the first time he ever suggested it. Instead, you have played a cat & mouse game b/c you don't have the backbone to say, "Yes, I am going to attend, but not together."

Second, the answer you finally gave.......doesn't tell him anything! I can't tell what you mean either. Go together, not together? And he didn't even know if you ever replied on behalf of both your invitations? B/c you were too spineless to tell him one way or the other, or were you playing some game to make him guess? This is not what DB means by being mysterious!

If you are feeling nervous about tonight, it's b/c you have put yourself in this position. Now you'll watch to see what he says and does.


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HI Starsky... Yep, I will look more into my co-dependency.

Hi Sandi... I wasn't sure if I was going to this party or not, thats why I didn't give an answer. However, you are right... I do not have that back bone to say that to him... I'm working on it.

I was not playing any games. He received the same invite I did... He is quite capable of responding for himself. These people are more HIS friends than mine. He sees the guy on a daily basis... He could have made his own decision to go and not even tell me or consider me. We are supposed to be independent of each other. We are not a couple. Its not my job to respond for him. The reason I did not respond was because I wasn't sure if I was going to go... because I wasn't sure I could handle it.


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I think it's instructive that you spent just eight words glossing over the post about YOU, and then about 150 words "explaining" yourself (yet again) in reply to the post about HIM.


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Originally Posted By: Starsky309
I think it's instructive that you spent just eight words glossing over the post about YOU, and then about 150 words "explaining" yourself (yet again) in reply to the post about HIM.



Now THIS is a fascinating observation.


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Lol. Likely because I was concerned about what my response will be in regards to the party tonight. Trying to focus on me and my response and reasoning

I did look up more about codependency. I sure have it bad. I really am worried about his responses over my requirements. I do need to fix this!!!

So, as expected... He asked me if we were going to go together. My response was "no, no... I will go on my own"

I said this because I need to not look to him for these types of things. To be more independent and not do as he expects ... Regardless of what I am hopeful of. I am really trying to stand firm to what I want. Not to accept just moments thst satisfy him. What about what satisfies me?


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He received the same invite I did... He is quite capable of responding for himself. These people are more HIS friends than mine. He sees the guy on a daily basis... He could have made his own decision to go and not even tell me or consider me. We are supposed to be independent of each other. We are not a couple. Its not my job to respond for him. The reason I did not respond was because I wasn't sure if I was going to go... because I wasn't sure I could handle it.


Cut it out MM. I was the one who told you all that stuff! But he assumed that you would do as always and correspond for both of you. After all, that's the excuse you gave me then when I suggested he was a big boy who could reply to his own invitations. But oh no, you were representing the joint business. smirk And so now you are saying you never responded at all? I bet you didn't tell him that part either!

The point here is you wouldn't tell him one way or the other! You made excuses for him. And now you come back with the very things I said to you? Please! You love to play the games, not just with him, but with us, too.


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OMG.. NO Sandi...

I sent him a copy of the invite for him to respond for himself ages ago... He made excuses. Kept telling me that he hasn't set up his email account because of his new phone, didn't have time, ...kept pushing it on to me.

Yes, I told him many times that I hadn't responded yet... because "I" wasn't sure if I was going or not. "HE" had opportunity to respond himself. He chose not too. Kept asking if I would do it. Much like today, asking me if we are supposed to bring gifts or not, asking me to look it up. He can look just like I can... its not my job. I am not his secretary either!

I bought my own cards... from me.

I was not making excuses for him... I was telling you what was happening.

I am NOT playing games!


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Okay. It sure would help if you would tell the complete facts at the time. Unless I missed it, I don't recall you telling that last part, so how could we know? So anyway.......

You are right in not doing the responding for him, but make sure you tell him in the beginning that you will not do it. Don't be vague about it, just b/c you don't like standing up to him and speaking frankly.


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Originally Posted By: makingmagic


I did look up more about codependency. I sure have it bad. I really am worried about his responses over my requirements.



And do you see where you just did the same thing right there? ^^^


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"Okay. It sure would help if you would tell the complete facts at the time. Unless I missed it, I don't recall you telling that last part, so how could we know? So anyway..."

sandi, the reason she doesnt is because it would force her to take responsibility for her contribution to the situation. the majority of MMs posts lack important details that change the perspective drastically, its a form of manipulation/control my x uses also. when reading her posts theres always this nagging feeling something just isnt right, something is missing. its only later when questioned that further details emerge and you get that Aha moment, when it all makes sense.



"You are right in not doing the responding for him,"

and this depends on her role in the business. If her role is more of the office manager/secretary, and she manages the email account, (regardless whose name is on the email) then its her responsibility to respond as this is a Work party.

for them to respond separately to a work party would look unprofessional and ridiculous considering there's only 2 of them.

"I sent him a copy of the invite for him to respond for himself ages ago" - showing until this point she had managed the emails and responding to invites. but she's changing the roles without notifying him which explains his expectations and confusion.

if she's changing the roles, and refusing to respond on his behalf, then she has to clearly explain this to him, she shouldnt do it passive-aggressively by waiting until the last minute and then give half-assed answers to him as she's doing now.


"In a ham and eggs breakfast, the hen is involved, but the pig is committed".
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Completely agree, Ken.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Quote:
sandi, the reason she doesnt is because it would force her to take responsibility for her contribution to the situation. the majority of MMs posts lack important details that change the perspective drastically, its a form of manipulation/control my x uses also. when reading her posts theres always this nagging feeling something just isnt right, something is missing. its only later when questioned that further details emerge and you get that Aha moment, when it all makes sense.


AMEN.

Quote:
Nothing counted but thoroughness and honesty. Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous: Chapter: How It Works


MM, you gotta want this freedom so much that you are WILLING to BE RIGOROUSLY HONEST with yourself and others. I'm not sure you want it that badly...yet.

Last edited by LoisB; 07/27/14 01:20 PM.

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Originally Posted By: LoisB
Quote:
sandi, the reason she doesnt is because it would force her to take responsibility for her contribution to the situation. the majority of MMs posts lack important details that change the perspective drastically, its a form of manipulation/control my x uses also. when reading her posts theres always this nagging feeling something just isnt right, something is missing. its only later when questioned that further details emerge and you get that Aha moment, when it all makes sense.


AMEN.

Quote:
Nothing counted but thoroughness and honesty. Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous: Chapter: How It Works


MM, you gotta want this freedom so much that you are WILLING to BE RIGOROUSLY HONEST with yourself and others. I'm not sure you want it that badly...yet.


I think you're probably right.


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WOW... Im not sure I understand... I am honest. Not posting about that seemed pointless, as I wasn't sure I was going & it seemed irrelevant (at the time). It is not done to mislead anyone or to be irresponsible. We typically do not get email invites to parties, therefore I was not changing up the roles.

I feel I am very honest. Brutally honest, so that I can get the help I need ... fast... otherwise, its pointless.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

The party: I showed up and a small group of people were talking when I arrived. He was in that circle. He asked if I would like a beer. I said sure. It was an interesting venue with a lake. I was curious to see the property & asked if he would like to join me outside for a walk. He said sure. While outside we casually chatted about the property. We then sat outside for awhile too. He stated that this was an "Old people party" and that I looked nice or the hottest (can't recall exactly). I thanked him for the compliment. He said don't take it too seriously and look around (old people). He spoke of his Mom & how caring for her is tough & he is not a caregiver. He spoke about the new car we purchased my DD. He then mentioned he would be leaving around 9pm. When we went inside, some old acquaintances had arrived & began chatting with us. He seemed to be making an effort to include me in the comments about "our" work, "our" business, etc. They started assuming we were still a couple & they were reminiscing of a time we spent away one weekend. It seemed as though several of the party members were playing darts. The one girl asked us to play. I was sure he would use this as an opportune time to exit, but looked at me and said "sure". During this time, he asked if I would share a beer with him, I said "sure". We played a game of darts & we were a team. It was fun. This couple made comments of how nice it was that we were still together, and asked how long.. he said "20 years at least", etc. I was the better player of the 4 of us & was being asked how to play, etc. It was now 11pm, cake time. He used this time to exit. It was a quick bye & he left using the excuse of needing to go feed his mom. About a half hour later. I left too. I didn't really know anyone else to talk too.

Came back, watched TV with DD....this was nice.

I think the party went well. We did not talk about "work" which we don't get to do often, and we also had an opportunity to "play" and we don't do that either. I am unsure why he let that couple think we were still together. Maybe I should have stated, no... we are separated....??? We do this with customers too, as its easier to carry on than to stop and explain. Maybe he was doing this.

I realize this event was just a work thing... I would love to think it was something more than it is... but, it is not.

Carry on.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Today: taking my daughter to get her hair cut/coloured.


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So mm you spent the whole time hanging with mr mm?
Acting couple like, mmmmm looks like he knows your an easy mark.

I was at a funeral last week with h and his family, I spoke to every one but him. He knows the onus is on him for him to open any doors. I did not hang out nor focus overly n him, I found I was internally happy and comfident, the inlaws behaving queer did not effect me in any way. Apart from being mildly amuse at their crazy.

It's been 2 years but he and you have reasons why the $ cant be separated. If it was a divorce in Australia, your time would be up, simple, you would forfeit everything. They set time limits to stop this sort of toing and froing.

He wanted it, you need to make it happen faster. Men see $ as control in way, he provides he controls b and you defer, in a wifely way. It's a dance you cannot see. Make him live his choices.


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He stated that this was an "Old people party" and that I looked nice or the hottest (can't recall exactly). I thanked him for the compliment. He said don't take it too seriously and look around (old people).

This was not really a compliment. And he told you that.

You are still defining your self, and your life around him. And countless people have tried countless ways to help you see this.

I feel I am very honest. Brutally honest, so that I can get the help I need ... fast... otherwise, its pointless.

I don't believe you want help MM. I believe this ongoing drama serves you.

Maybe I have the wrong take on you, and on DB in general. As I understand it we almost all come here for "help" with our M. We think the tools given here will "fix" the M. Then, we realize, we really need "help" for ourselves, that the only "fixing" we can ever do is internal.

Amazingly patient and kind people have tried to show you what the steps are but you seem to smile and nod... then go ask the next person... to get the same answer. And repeat.

MM, take care of yourself. Respect yourself. You deserve more than the crumbs you are making a feast of.

Peace,

~ Jaye


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Ggrass & Jaye... Tx for your comments.

I know his style of compliment, it was a small one... but, still one. He was still trying to focus on the fact that it was an "old people party". He didn't need to say anything.

I did what I did & I am fine with the outcome of the party. There really wasn't many people to talk with & we were "adopted/consumed" by this other couple, to which we ended up playing darts with. It was him who "acted" couple like... not me. I was fun, happy & involved in darts...I wasn't trying to have convos with him or hang off him, etc. He offered the beer, etc. He allowed them to think we were still a couple, etc.

I had intentions of socializing with our friends son and other employees...but they didn't arrive. I am an outgoing person and know how to socialize. There were 3 groups of tables (all seats taken). The kids, the dart players, and our table..... so, we eventually joined in the dart games too.

The fixing is internal Jaye... and I have been doing my best.

It doesn't really matter what happened at the party.. its more about how I feel after the party.... and I was OK. It was just a party. I didn't attach meaning to anything.


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"I didn't attach meaning to anything."

but it was still all about him.


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hmmm... not so sure (all about him).

I went there without expectations. Had a good time. Enjoyed the moment. Left without expectations. No expectations still today.

The only part I wish I had done differently would have been to clarify to the couple that we were no longer together. Maybe not "appear" as though we were still a couple...although HE fell into that one as well.

Last edited by makingmagic; 07/28/14 05:34 PM.

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MM

Everyone is telling you your posts are still all about him, and yet you are still arguing and defending yourself.

Don't be so defensive. Try to see things from other posters point of view and be more objective. This is what others find so frustrating.

WH


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I was trying.. I spent time reviewing... I don't see it. Not trying to defend or argue... sorry if it comes across like that.

Please point it out for me? I seriously just thought I was journalling about the party. The good/bad/ugly... just the facts/truths.

?????


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MM,

If someone (or even everyone) points out how -- broadly -- you made the party (or your post about the party) all about him, you disagree and ask us to point it out. And if we then break it down into pieces and point it out, you will then disagree about each piece.

It's maddening, and why I have said you are "uncoachable."


Starsky


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It's B.S.

MM, you don't want help, you want attention.

There's a difference.


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I completely get trying to use the boards to get needs met that were maybe previously met in your relationship. I get it. I do that...it's just, I don't see you trying to find your way outta he!! It's like you are perfectly content to remain there and you just want cheerleaders to give you Atta Boys! when you turn down coffee.

It's frustrating.

I told you my story. I laid it out there for all to see...much like many others have done...my painful past in an effort to help you and your response was pretty much, "My childhood was happy. I'm sorry for you, but that doesn't apply to me."

If it NEVER applies to you, then WHY ARE YOU HERE?


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apologetically, I am not looking for the attention or to disagree.

If everyone feels that my post about the party was all about him... then ok. I guess it was. I will keep looking/reviewing to see it.

Heather, I am sorry that you feel I dismissed your story. I just don't see how it applied to my family, as my upbringing was completely different.

I'm not uncoachable... I am willing to review & take 2x4's. I will not disagree or argue it, as I understand it to be critical help.

I would like to move past the party & carry on.

THIS NEW THREAD IS ABOUT ME!

Last edited by makingmagic; 07/28/14 07:26 PM.

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OK... wait!

Yes... that post was written all about him... HOWEVER, I did learn from this event that I could go independently to a party that he was at. I learned that I could have a good time and not to focus on him. I learned that I could approach him (walk), and for it to mean nothing to me.,... It was on MY terms. I learned that I could do this stuff and not have expectations of what it could mean or didn't mean. I did not analyze any of his words or actions. I did not get my hopes up the next day.

It was what it was... a work event.

I feel I handled it pretty well.

Last edited by makingmagic; 07/28/14 07:41 PM.

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Mr mm, is just too lazy and shallow in his thinking to actually think he can treat you differently.

He is still treating you exactly the same as if you we're together. He left, but is so habitual he just can't/wont change. He sounds like he likes control and knows he has it.


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Hi Ggrass... yes, he likes control.

Yesterday, we made business purchases out of our province.... and then he says "road trip"... i shrugged it off with a "pfft". Later, he mentions that he was serious... maybe even bring DD too. This is NOT just a business trip... he is viewing it as a mini holiday that we both NEED. A time to spend together. Getting along.

BUT..... not suggesting "commitment" or working on things.... its just more of his "connection time", that satisfies him.

I am not sure what to say about this..... what satisfies me?

Keeping the focus on me and being truthful, I am not sure I can "handle" going & not want to make something out of it. On the flip side, it sure would be nice to get away from the business & be with the 2 that I love.

Of course I WANT to go... but, does doing so make me look like I am accepting crumbs? or does missing out hurt only me?

I know its wrong to ask... what does this trip mean? Is it business or personal? ...that is pressure and controlling. He would feel pressured by this questioning & fluff it off and say "I just thought it would be nice to get away, have fun"

But, how will I know HIS truth... when he's being just too casual??

Is his "casual" his truth? THATS IT? (he has mentioned many times about wanting to "see" where it goes... no commitment).... GRRRR

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This morning we were briefly discussing how difficult and stubborn his mom is & how he is not. We giggled. He said he is trying to change & is working on that. He mentioned about my changes with "dog with a bone", and he has noticed I have changed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Last night was good. I had a women's meeting that I left feeling good about myself.

Tonight, I am leaving work early to attend a concert with my girlfriend. My treat... she is such a supportive friend. She deserves it!

my typical old behaviour is creeping in... I am scared to let Xbf know that I am:

1) leaving early.... because "HE" will feel that "HE" works more than me
2) going to a concert .... because "HE" will feel that "I" have more fun than him.

YES!!! I know... those are about HIM,... I am trying to not care what he thinks/feels & put the focus on what works for me.

So, might just state that I am leaving early tonight as I have plans.....


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Originally Posted By: makingmagic


I know its wrong to ask... what does this trip mean? Is it business or personal? ...that is pressure and controlling. He would feel pressured by this questioning & fluff it off and say "I just thought it would be nice to get away, have fun"

But, how will I know HIS truth... when he's being just too casual??

Is his "casual" his truth? THATS IT? (he has mentioned many times about wanting to "see" where it goes... no commitment).... GRRRR




Well, yeah -- of course. MM you have a full 20 YEARS of data here from which to draw. If you want to know what he wants, just look at what you two had before. That's your "at best" scenario of what it is that he wants -- that he wants to get back to that again.

"At worst" it's what Ken and a couple of others have posted -- xBF really is trying to dump you, but let you down easy, out of some combination of basic human compassion and his looking out for his own business interests.

Only you can decide if you can live with that "at best" scenario, but I think it's clear after 20 years -- and after the past two years of you TRYING to pin him down for more -- that this man is incapable of that.


Starsky

Last edited by Starsky309; 07/30/14 02:49 PM.

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Tx Starsky...

BIG "IF" he was letting me down easy... why ask me to go?... He could go himself... or do what we do with 99.8% of the rest of our out of town purchases... we SHIP and transport!!!

The "at best" scenario... is what he "says" he wants... last time we spoke he said, just not ready .."YET". I believe he does want to "work" on relationship skills... when HE IS READY. Not necessarily with me, but maybe.

AND... I do not want to "pin" him down any longer... I want it to be what HE wants...if thats what HE wants..... I need to know.

So.... is this crumbs?

Last edited by makingmagic; 07/30/14 02:57 PM.

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Only you can decide that, MM.


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"my typical old behaviour is creeping in... I am scared to let Xbf know that I am:

1) leaving early.... because "HE" will feel that "HE" works more than me
2) going to a concert .... because "HE" will feel that "I" have more fun than him."


how about you try something different and just tell him. stop making the excuses about him, the issue is you're simply scared for no good reason.


Obviously you bought the tickets before this morning. You should have told him as soon as you knew. The longer you procrastinate the harder it'll be to tell him. man-up and tell him as soon as you know. stop holding onto information when you know its the wrong thing to do.


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Ok ken....I told him. I was partially delaying because I didn't know how early I would need to leave and how much of it is his business to know.

Starsky... It still seems to me like a cookie/carrot with a string attached. I know he is wanting "nice times" with me. ..... But, I need commitment that he is invested in us. How can I say/show that without chasing him away or pressuring him.

How do I say "no thanks" without him receiving it as cold and grumpy, like he accused me before?

Is it a cop out to just say that it probably doesn't make sense financially? Hoping that he gets it?

Last edited by makingmagic; 07/30/14 08:10 PM.

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Magic,
You continue to ask the same questions over and over again. I realize you are trying to do things perfectly and w/o errors, but there comes a time when you have to just say no thanks and leave it at that.

I want to suggest to you that you go back and re-read the last 8 threads because the answers to the questions that you have posed are in those postings. Take some time, print off your threads and hi-light your questions and then the answers. You will then have a reference guide to answer these questions w/o everyone coming back and reposting what they've already told you.

As for letting him know when you have commitments after work and need to leave early, the sooner you advise him the better. All you have to do is advise him that on such and such day, you will need to leave 1 hour or even 30 minutes early. You don't need to get into detail and tell him all of your business.


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The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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What Job said. ^^^


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MM,
I'm with gabby here! This is what we have been trying so hard to tell you all along! You are so worried about how he will take what you say or do. STOP! He knows that you want a commitment or nothing. IF he EVER decides that he is wanting to give you this, he knows it's what you want. Again, he will NEVER change the way he see's you or feels about you until YOU change the way you are behaving. If you can't stop obsessing about him for you, do it because if you ever want him to see you as anything but someone he doesn't want in his life (at least romantically) you must detach. Give him a reason to look at you differently! Unless and until he starts to think he may just lose you unless he starts to treat you the 'right" way, he NEVER will.

Right now you are available to him and he KNOWS this. Stop worrying if he doesn't like you going out or having fun without him! Make sure he doesn't know just what you are up to. Shake him up a bit. Keep him wondering what you are doing and who you are with. Stop thinking about what he is thinking or feeling. Let him say you're being "cold and grumpy" and don't give a rats butt! That may just make him wonder what you're up to.

If you can't see that you need to change for yourself, than change so you will have ANY chance of him ever seeing you other than how he see's you right now!

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Mm....Does your brain ever get tired? Seriously


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MM I really am not being mean when I ask this. I was once you and I know it's exhausting to go thru this day in and day out. Give yourself a mental rest.
In all reality until you give a crap no longer, these people are wasting their breath.
Two things...1......take Job's advice about printing off your threads AND 2....pick up the book He's just not into you....Really....you will learn from this book that if someone wants to be with you, you can't run far enough away from them and if they don't, they will say things like....well.......I'm just not ready yet.....with NO emphasis on yet either.
Stop analyzing.

Last edited by sunshinelewis; 07/31/14 10:47 AM.

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Of course Mm Brain is tired.

She cannot make head nor tail of things. Mm you need a break truly.

Stop picking the scab.
Stop moving those deck chairs and watering flowers on the decks of the titanic, she sank 2 years ago.

Stop watering the dead plant.
Stop circling down the rabbit hole in wonder land.
Anyone else got one?


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Thanks to all who responded.

I thought when I posted my question, that I had answered it as well. I just wanted confirmation/support that my response was a good one.

Gabby... no, I am not trying to make it evident with my words, but my ACTIONS.

Saying "no thank you" is harder to say when its what you ultimately want.

Matt ... I have changed the way I behave (in front of him), since June 13. I still struggle on the inside, this is true. I am trying to learn how not to care about his response/reaction. But, I still do. I agree he needs to treat me the "right" way. I get confused by his "offers", wondering if these are his attempts to make headway in the right direction. Keeping things on HIS terms. Although, I do see them as lazy attempts. Not clear. He is keeping his option open with me, on HIS terms.....

I need MY terms met, as well.

I'm not so sure he thinks I am available to him, as I haven't been since June 13 (cold & grumpy). Last night, I went to the concert & left work in a rush. As I was running out the door, he was asking if I wanted to help him with a work issue. I said, no...sorry, I've got things to do. I realized that I left whirlwind, kinda rude, so texted later to apologize and to say that I had to leave earlier than expected. He texted back... several times throughout the evening. He didn't know what I was up to....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Had a great time at the concert. My GF is the BEST!


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OK MM,
I understand that the fact that you still have feelings for him is making it harder for you. You want to see his "offers" as much more than what he thinks they are. ANY offer to do ANYTHING is just window dressing until he says, loud and clear, that he is ready to give your R a chance. Do not ask him "does this mean you are ready to try", do not say "I gave you a chance, told you what I need" or say anything about R or lack there of when he makes an offer to do something together. Just don't be interested in doing anything with him until he says he is ready and wants to give your R another chance. Until he says that loud and clear, unambiguously, you must have no desire to spend any part of your busy life with someone who dumped you after 20 years together, tried to get you to have a "friends with benefits" relationship only, flirted with other women in front of you, dated other women and told you about it, etc.

Yes, we all get how hard it is. We all still had feelings for our WAS's at first and we all had to work hard to just stop doing the things that you are doing. It isn't easy. It hurts and it s$#ks. Until you can face that pain and do what we have suggested, even though it feels wrong and what you really want to do is get things back to the way they were before the bomb drop, see signs of him changing his mind in his offers, find some words that will get him to see the light, make him see the error of his ways and that he is making a huge mistake in leaving the R, believe his words about maybe someday being ready to try again (you can't believe ANYTHING they say), you will never be able to move on, nor will he ever see you any other way but how he does now.

It's not "fair". It's not right. Nobody should just walk away from 20 years together the way he did. But he did and he isn't going to change his mind if things don't change a lot more than they have. You can point out the changes you have made, your not being available, the way you behave in front of him, etc. (to us not him) That isn't enough. He must think that not only aren't you available, even if you were you wouldn't go near him, you don't want what he is offering unless and until he shows you the respect you deserve and makes it clear that he is willing to do what HE needs to do to get YOU back. If he wants you back in his life he will need to work, HARD, to prove HE is worthy of YOU! You don't make him understand this with words. You do it with actions and attitude.

It's been 2 years and little has changed. He is no closer to wanting a R with you then he was 2 years ago. Nothing short of you doing all this will make him change one bit. In the mean time, while you do this, at first, if you have to, to get him to actually change his mind, you will find that you will start enjoying your life without him. One day you will realize that not only aren't you doing this to get him to change his mind and want you back but that you are happy with your life, maybe even happier than you were when you were together as a couple. But for that day to come, you have to do ALL of the things everyone has been telling you. Is it hard? Yes. Is it "fair". No. But it is the only way you will ever be free to be the best MM you can be.

Please don't ask questions about certain situations or events. What I am saying is simple...he gets zero MM until he works his butt off to deserve MM. If it is a work event, go on your own. If he asks to go somewhere together that isn't work related, the answer is no. No explanation, no excuses. If you are together and someone thinks you are a couple, you tell them that you aren't! Smile when you say it. You are absolutely, totally fine single. In fact you're glad to be free of him! If he thinks that you no longer want him because you said that, perfect! Let him think YOU don't want HIM! How can it hurt MM? Has trying to make sure he knows if he's ready so are you helped one bit? The best thing that can happen IMO is for him to think it's too late. He waited too long and he lost his chance to ever get back together! Remember, unless he says that he wants to try to work on having a R, until he says those words, you don't care if he's angry, sad, happy, worried or nauseous. You must do this MM. It's your last hope!

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Originally Posted By: Matt165
OK MM,
I understand that the fact that you still have feelings for him is making it harder for you. You want to see his "offers" as much more than what he thinks they are. ANY offer to do ANYTHING is just window dressing until he says, loud and clear, that he is ready to give your R a chance. Do not ask him "does this mean you are ready to try", do not say "I gave you a chance, told you what I need" or say anything about R or lack there of when he makes an offer to do something together. Just don't be interested in doing anything with him until he says he is ready and wants to give your R another chance. Until he says that loud and clear, unambiguously, you must have no desire to spend any part of your busy life with someone who dumped you after 20 years together, tried to get you to have a "friends with benefits" relationship only, flirted with other women in front of you, dated other women and told you about it, etc.

Yes, we all get how hard it is. We all still had feelings for our WAS's at first and we all had to work hard to just stop doing the things that you are doing. It isn't easy. It hurts and it s$#ks. Until you can face that pain and do what we have suggested, even though it feels wrong and what you really want to do is get things back to the way they were before the bomb drop, see signs of him changing his mind in his offers, find some words that will get him to see the light, make him see the error of his ways and that he is making a huge mistake in leaving the R, believe his words about maybe someday being ready to try again (you can't believe ANYTHING they say), you will never be able to move on, nor will he ever see you any other way but how he does now.

It's not "fair". It's not right. Nobody should just walk away from 20 years together the way he did. But he did and he isn't going to change his mind if things don't change a lot more than they have. You can point out the changes you have made, your not being available, the way you behave in front of him, etc. (to us not him) That isn't enough. He must think that not only aren't you available, even if you were you wouldn't go near him, you don't want what he is offering unless and until he shows you the respect you deserve and makes it clear that he is willing to do what HE needs to do to get YOU back. If he wants you back in his life he will need to work, HARD, to prove HE is worthy of YOU! You don't make him understand this with words. You do it with actions and attitude.

It's been 2 years and little has changed. He is no closer to wanting a R with you then he was 2 years ago. Nothing short of you doing all this will make him change one bit. In the mean time, while you do this, at first, if you have to, to get him to actually change his mind, you will find that you will start enjoying your life without him. One day you will realize that not only aren't you doing this to get him to change his mind and want you back but that you are happy with your life, maybe even happier than you were when you were together as a couple. But for that day to come, you have to do ALL of the things everyone has been telling you. Is it hard? Yes. Is it "fair". No. But it is the only way you will ever be free to be the best MM you can be.

Please don't ask questions about certain situations or events. What I am saying is simple...he gets zero MM until he works his butt off to deserve MM. If it is a work event, go on your own. If he asks to go somewhere together that isn't work related, the answer is no. No explanation, no excuses. If you are together and someone thinks you are a couple, you tell them that you aren't! Smile when you say it. You are absolutely, totally fine single. In fact you're glad to be free of him! If he thinks that you no longer want him because you said that, perfect! Let him think YOU don't want HIM! How can it hurt MM? Has trying to make sure he knows if he's ready so are you helped one bit? The best thing that can happen IMO is for him to think it's too late. He waited too long and he lost his chance to ever get back together! Remember, unless he says that he wants to try to work on having a R, until he says those words, you don't care if he's angry, sad, happy, worried or nauseous. You must do this MM. It's your last hope!



whistle whistle whistle whistle


Starsky


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Wow Matt. You rock ^^^^^^^


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Matt,
That was an excellent posting. I couldn't have said it any better.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
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Spirit fingers for Matt! Well said:)



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spirit fingers?!?! i had to look that up. excellent.

and MM, dont say Matt misunderstood, or he doesnt know, or he's mistaken, dont write it off to not knowing what he's talking about. He gave you excellent advice.


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"Ok ken....I told him. I was partially delaying because I didn't know how early I would need to leave and how much of it is his business to know."

so says the woman of a million excuses.

take responsibility of yourself.


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no, but i'll add it to my netflix queue. i'll watch it after Step It Up, and Stomp The Yard, and Jump In, and Fired Up, and Roll Bounce.


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Grabs mm by the hair and drags her into the couch!



Mm, you really sound like me, but your h also sounds like mine.

He's a coward, plain and simple. He is too cowardly to even be bothered to grow a set and walk completely or r!

Think of him in a big yellow banana suit, or better still a big yellow big bird costume.
Every time you see him hum to the tune of Sesame Street.

As he truly is a muppet with cotton wool stuffing. Take the money and run, really when you start moving away you feel 10000000000000000000000000000% bettera.


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Maybe this song will help, it's a hit in au, maybe not in the USA.

There is a lesson in it.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tFFq31fBoeI


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Actually they have no children and only a business.

He is keeping or she is staying in that b. they both waffle and won't do what's needed to allow her to become silent partner if she wants or working p with salary and rights.
The b is slightly messy unfinished business.


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That's my point he's coward who wants her money, but not her!

IMHO makes him a muppet, and her slightly crazy.

He's a muppet for thinking one day she might not get super pi$$ed off from being used and then take him properly for every thing she's entitled to.


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MM,
Where are you? It's been days and we haven't heard a thing from you since my post on Friday.

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MM,
You haven't been back since my last post. I really hope you didn't take it the wrong way as I wasn't trying to be mean or put you down or anything of the sort! I really thought out that post and I really hoped that it would help you see things the way they are. The way a person not in the middle of the pain fest you are going through can only see. Please post and let us know what you think. I really want you to make it MM, really I do. I have been so badly hurt by my soon to be ex W and I know how that feels. Let us know that you are alright!!!

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It wasn't your post Matt. That's just how it happens around here. People will suddenly stop posting without any explanation or coming back to update. Maybe she's taking a break from the board, or we may never hear from her again.


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Does it really matter? She never really applied any of the advice anyone gave her anyway, and instead would just argue and defend and explain her current position.

Which she supposedly wasn't happy with.

Supposedly.

My personal guess is that she ultimately decided that she'd rather have the old, uncommitted relationship with her exBF and just call it a day. He wasn't capable of more, and she was only making herself crazy trying to EXPECT more, but nor was she willing to move on and leave him.

Just a theory.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Apr 2014
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Hi Starsky,
I just thought it was really odd that after almost 2500 (wow) posts, that she would just stop. I really think she is stuck where she is at and is going to really get taken advantage of by her Exbf. She just couldn't grasp that he just doesn't give a dam anymore. I hope she can find the strength to get away from that jerk.

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
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Me too.

She may be posting at another forum, where she can get more sympathy for remaining stuck? I dunno . . . I do pray for her and hope she finds happiness.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 990
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i still stand by my belief he was Done and any wavering he did was because she was forcing the issue with R talks, or grabbing his crotch, and so he was just desperately saying anything to try to appease her but without any ulterior motives of taking the business from her, etc.

Any business decisions he took was to simply take care of business. In the beginning he had repeatedly asked her to take out her share so he could take care of his debt to his mother and pay taxes and after 2 years he couldn't wait for her any longer.


"In a ham and eggs breakfast, the hen is involved, but the pig is committed".
Joined: Oct 2010
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^^^ bump!


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 10
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I often wonder how MM's story continued and the outcome of the relationship 2 years later...I hope she is happy .

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