KGirl - post-move

[vossy]

Would your H tell/ask you if the situation was reversed?

[KGirl]

Georgiabelle, I just spoke with a friend and her advice was just give a head's up but don't justify/rationalize with anything like "I'll be solely responsible, blah blah" because that might bring things to mind that he otherwise wouldn't be worried about... so I think your approach makes sense.

Vossy - Hmm. Well, I guess that will require a bit of mind-reading... my sense is that it wouldn't occur to him that I'd still be liable for his loan or that I'd be notified because he wouldn't research it (or that even if it did, it wouldn't matter because he'd pay all of it) and therefore wouldn't see any reason to tell me. And then I could see myself getting a notice in the mail and thinking "wth is this from??"... so I'm just trying to be considerate so he doesn't wonder what the heck it is when he's notified from the lender.

[KGirl]

I ended up having to get more info from H because even though I was applying individually, it still asked for his SS#, income, etc. because the loan is based on both our income. =| Grr.

Then he sent me a text tonight saying he'd be out of town until Sunday so I could come pick up a few things he found of mine if I wanted. I can see that he's trying to be considerate in that I may not want to see him. But I instantly got this sick feeling in my stomach when he said he'd be going out of town. I thought I'd be over feeling this way by now, but the thoughts of "where's he going? what's he doing? how might it hurt me, whatever it is?" still come up. It's hard for me to just let them go as silly or just stories because they could very well be true (he could be doing something like hooking up with someone or getting another DUI or who knows what.) Does anyone have any good coping strategies for things like this? It's easier when I just know nothing, but I don't think telling him "please don't tell me when you're going out of town" is the best way to approach it...

[vossy]

This probably won't help, and because my situation is very different, it's easier for me to detach. But this is what I say to myself when I start freaking out about what my ex might be doing.. I just say "Whatever" in my head, over and over, and I try to find something to do.

That probably sounds ridiculous, but it's as simple as telling myself I can't change anything that's happening, I can't change what he's doing, I'm not a part of it, he needs to do what he needs to do, etc, etc. And most importantly, I just block it from my head..

Sure, this doesn't work all the time, but for the most part it helps. Even if he IS doing all the things that you imagine, can you change it? No. So why think about it. Why let it change your day and how you feel?

[vossy]

Sorry, I just want to add something. It's a method I use when I know I am going to freak out about something.

As an example, I can be quite scared of flying, as once I was on a plane and the engine caught on fire and we had to make an emergency landing. But thanks to various life circumstances, I have to fly a lot. So, I tell myself that I can only be scared in "levels."

For instance, I say to myself there is no point being scared until the flight attendants are asked to fasten their seatbelts, because if they're still walking around, there's obviously nothing to be worried about. IF it gets to that stage - and it rarely does - I tell myself that I'm not allowed to be scared until the oxygen masks fall down. Which has never happened, btw.

It is just a way for you to allow yourself to have that moment, but ONLY IF it's necessary.

To relate that to your H, I would do this: Say to yourself I am only allowed to be upset/freak out/be sad if I find out that he is seeing someone else. In other words, your reaction is only allowed to come from an actual action, not a "what if" scenario.

[KGirl]

Well, I got an email from H today about the car loan. I'm angry and upset, need to take some time to respond, don't even know HOW to respond.

He says he's been thinking more about it and understands I need and want a car but doesn't think now is the best time given if we move forward with D, the loan would be half his responsibility legally. He says he knows I'll say he wouldn't be responsible for it, but he's not sure that me saying that is "enough" and he's concerned about it. Then he goes on to say that for example, he could wrack up a lot of credit card debt without my knowledge and then I'd technically be responsible for it (so I guess comparing this to one of us being irreponsible with credit?). And then says feel free to email or call him to discuss further. He's also concerned that if he needs to sign the loan as well (which from what I can tell there's no reason he'd need to) he won't do it and would have to consult with a lawyer, and doesn't want me to go all the way through the process to find out I can't do it.

What do I even do with this?? I mean, wait indefinitely until he decides to D me? That doesn't seem right or fair. So far I've thought about saying we could sign something saying that I'll be solely responsible for it, if that would ease his concerns. I could also say that when I do negotiate a car price, I could ask right away about the financing and whether it needs his signature or if just mine will be fine. He's absolutely right that the debt will be part his... but on the other hand, we ARE still M, and we could remain M for who knows how long, or R, or who knows what. The part that really gets me PO'd is I wouldn't even need to be doing this if we were still together because we'd be sharing his car. I could also ask for suggestions so he feels more included in the process (even though, really, I don't need his permission to do any of this).

[claire7]

I wonder if asking for suggestions is the best response... (definitely not responding with anger!)

Validate his concern. .. then ask if he has any ideas for how to solve the issue (you need transportation?) collaboratively.

Draft a response, then re-read (or post here for feedback!) This is a great opportunity to show a change in how you respond to things (if that was an issue in your M).

[Maybell]

KGirl, I agree with Claire, wholeheartedly.

And an alternative, if he digs in his heels, is to peruse Craigslist for a decent car that would not require a loan. My H and I generally sold them there because it was simpler than trying to do a trade-in, and they were always good reliable cars that we sold because of changing life circumstances (like having a baby, or deciding we didn't need a pick-up anymore) rather than because the car was in poor shape. If you do careful due diligence there's no reason you have to buy a car from a dealer, or spend even as much as $10K, although it takes more time.

One other option, though you may not want this one, is to consult a lawyer now about establishing a legal separation that would divide your finances at this time so that you are free to make financial decisions without his input. Or possibly some kind of post-nup or something.

If you need a car it's not ok to let that need be held hostage by him.

[Georgiabelle]

K-Girl,

Yes, you can validate your h's concerns and ask him how he thinks this could be resolved as you do need a car. Is legal separation an option where you are? I'm simply asking because being married yet "separate" could create some financial issues.

[KGirl]

Here's what I've got so far. I don't know if the "I'll be moving forward" line is too harsh, but ultimately I don't need his permission or consent so I don't want it to sound like I won't do it if he pitches a fit.. moreso that I'd be open to things we could do to mitigate his concern/risk. I was going to put something about "I notified you out of courtesy but I'll be moving forward" but that sounds a little too angry To clarify - here even if I take out individual credit, any loans taken out after marriage are assumed to be for the benefit of the whole family/marriage so it will still be concerned joint debt.

"I hear your concerns and I understand them. Yes, technically the loan would be a joint debt, but if we divorce we can put in the paperwork that the loan would mine to take care of. The loan I'd take out is called "individual credit" as opposed to "joint credit with spouse" so I see no reason you need to sign it, but I can be sure to ask before it gets to that point and if it does we can talk about it. If you want us to make a document and sign it to say that it would be my responsibility, we can do that. I do need a reliable vehicle before winter, so I can't wait indefinitely to buy one. Assuming your signature isn't needed and I can get a good price for the car I want, I'll be moving forward on this because I need transportation, but I'm open to suggestions on how we can meet both of our needs. What are your ideas?"