I can't win. If I reply and try to again clarify that my challenging/questioning of statements meant to help is not with the intent of being defensive but how I find it best for me to process information, I come across as defensive. If I leave it alone, then assumptions are incorrectly made. It is frustrating and not why I am here.
I am here to learn and hopefully at the same time gain some valuable advice on how to best deal with a situation I have never been in, and others have. As much of the advice is counter intuitive, it comes across as confusing and not familiar to me. So I ask questions and challenge. Not because I am rejecting the ideas, but because I am extremely curious about them. My defense mechanism is to ignore. When I do not reply, then I am being defensive.
Me: 42 W: 32 Married 7 years together 8.5 S1: 7 S2:7 Bomb #1: 09-16-13 Recon #1: 11/13 A discovered 04-03-2014 W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me I filed D 12-02-2014 S 05-31-14 Divorced 5-19-16
I think, Pilot, (and I see some similarities with some other recent male posters) is that sometimes it seems like you have a need to prove yourself to the people in this forum. Like, making sure that we totally understand something you wrote, or intended, or justifying certain actions or thoughts you've had.
But here is the thing: you don't need to prove yourself to anyone here. We are all anonymous. We don't know you. We have zero vested interest in saving your M.
If you want to say, Claire, I think you are full of $h!t, and don't know what the heck you are talking about... well, I don't really care! (See, that's what detachment means ). I don't feel a need to prove myself to you.
Saying "I can't win" kind of says a lot. Why do you feel you have to "win" here?What if you just simply took the pieces of advice here that you felt were most helpful (and that's just it, none of us are magicians so no one has ALL the answers) and just left the rest without feeling the need to reply to every point?
I think, Pilot, (and I see some similarities with some other recent male posters) is that sometimes it seems like you have a need to prove yourself to the people in this forum. Like, making sure that we totally understand something you wrote, or intended, or justifying certain actions or thoughts you've had.
But here is the thing: you don't need to prove yourself to anyone here. We are all anonymous. We don't know you. We have zero vested interest in saving your M.
If you want to say, Claire, I think you are full of $h!t, and don't know what the heck you are talking about... well, I don't really care! (See, that's what detachment means ). I don't feel a need to prove myself to you.
Saying "I can't win" kind of says a lot. Why do you feel you have to "win" here?What if you just simply took the pieces of advice here that you felt were most helpful (and that's just it, none of us are magicians so no one has ALL the answers) and just left the rest without feeling the need to reply to every point?
Fair enough
Me: 42 W: 32 Married 7 years together 8.5 S1: 7 S2:7 Bomb #1: 09-16-13 Recon #1: 11/13 A discovered 04-03-2014 W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me I filed D 12-02-2014 S 05-31-14 Divorced 5-19-16
I have the big red flag compliment thing goin' on as well.
She doesn't want that from me now: she told me. Should I believe her? I been thinking I should try non-personal things: that sounds reasonable and normal for ... er normal people to me.
25yearsmlc, I've been reading your posts on a few theads, could you (others always welcome too :-) pop over to 'Old dog seeks new trick' one day please.
Old Dog xx
M: 57 / EW: 52 T: 21, M: 8 S: 18, S: 15 Bomb: 1 Jun 14 EA Aug 2014 I think PA Feb 2015 possibly sooner
I think, Pilot, (and I see some similarities with some other recent male posters) is that sometimes it seems like you have a need to prove yourself to the people in this forum. Like, making sure that we totally understand something you wrote, or intended, or justifying certain actions or thoughts you've had.
And we could also say that if you validated his feelings (and other male posters) and responses that he would feel understood and be less defensive. Would you tell a woman who is having trouble talking to her WS to talk to him the same way you just communicated with Pilot? Or would you encourage her to learn to validate what her husband thinks and feels before replying with her thoughts? I don't see any issue with him wanting to make sure he is understood or what his intentions are. It's called communication.
I actually believe he is handling talking to the women here quite admirably.I can see why he may feel a bit defensive, and my take is that he is trying his very best to share his thoughts and feelings the same as you. No? I think it would have been very kind and helpful for him to hear a few times something like " Yes, I can understand how you could feel that way" before responding with your views... Or doesn't his thoughts and feelings deserve validation?
I think it has nothing to do with how he talks to the women here, it's the general defensiveness he displays. I'm a woman, I have very similar problems with wanting to "explain myself." Anytime anyone pointed something out as I said earlier, I went into protect my ego mode by explaining and challenging. (I'll show them how smart I am was the underlying motive)
I didn't need to explain and challenge I needed to drink a long, tall glass of STFU!
What I was failing to take into account was, my best thinking had gotten me here! That's a sobering thought.
Do with this as you will Pilot and JCred. As I said earlier, if you do this here and it's noticeable, chances are it's on your W's list. Take that as you will.
My suggestion is, do a search and read Mach1's posts. Doesn't matter what board or to whom, just take a day or 2 and focus on that.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
And we could also say that if you validated his feelings (and other male posters) and responses that he would feel understood and be less defensive.
You might be right. Is that my responsibility? Maybe. Maybe not.
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Would you tell a woman who is having trouble talking to her WS to talk to him the same way you just communicated with Pilot? Or would you encourage her to learn to validate what her husband thinks and feels before replying with her thoughts? I don't see any issue with him wanting to make sure he is understood or what his intentions are. It's called communication.
I would absolutely encourage anyone who is looking to save their marriage to learn to STFU and LISTEN with an open mind and validate the OTHER person's p.o.v.
That is what I'm encouraging Pilot to do.
Hmmm, perhaps I could do a better job of validating Pilot's feelings.
Pilot, sorry if you don't feel supported enough. We are all here for the same reason-- many of us are going through a very difficult time, working very hard on changing ourselves to become better people, and sometimes that requires a jolt of tough love. And that can be really hard to hear.
I know that, because I was slammed pretty hard in my first few posts by 25years and Mr. Bond. And instead of getting defensive, I chose to think, "Hey, as hard as that is to hear, maybe they are on to something. I'm here because whatever I was doing was NOT working. And I'm ready to change, so I'm going into this with an open, humbled mind."
I'm actually pretty comfortable with the advice I've given people on these boards. And I'm a huge cheerleader for everyone who comes with an open mind. But you've noticed that I don't have much patience for people who stay stuck or refuse to listen with an open mind, despite the fact that anonymous strangers with full lives take a lot of time and energy out of their days to offer advice and support.
Pilot, we are all here to help. Sorry for this interruption. I get how much it suxx to be in this situation. Hang in there.
"I would absolutely encourage anyone who is looking to save their marriage to learn to STFU and LISTEN with an open mind and validate the OTHER person's p.o.v."
Exactly. Even in you don't agree with what someone says, their POV can be invaluable in making you think of a possibility that you hadn't thought of before.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
My suggestion is, do a search and read Mach1's posts. Doesn't matter what board or to whom, just take a day or 2 and focus on that.
Thanks. I actually have taken a couple of hours so far and read some of Mach1's posts. It was actually YOUR thread I have been studying, from your start on here and Mach1 posted to you a few times. No hint that Mach1's advice would cause you or anyone to feel defensive. I am now at around 5-12 of your journey.
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Anytime anyone pointed something out as I said earlier, I went into protect my ego mode by explaining and challenging. (I'll show them how smart I am was the underlying motive)
I think most people are that way.
I must have missed something then on your journey. I have YET to find where someone on your threads that responded to you pointed anything out with a STFU and listen attitude. Matter of fact, very little was pointed out to you without them validating your thoughts and feelings.
As far as I have read, every person responding on your threads were kind, considerate, encouraging and actually extremely validating to you. I would encourage you to go back and see the difference in how you were treated and what I see on this thread. Since I haven't finished your entire thread, maybe I haven't yet come to the 2x4 section.
I did see that when one of your ex friends tried to point something out to you and you told her that you just needed a break from people who wanted to tell you what to do about your R.
The next exchange you said went like this...
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She was clearly angry with me and said "but you kept bringing it to me" Yes, I shared with her but was not looking for legal advice, just support.
This is exactly my point about Pilot. It doesn't work very well to give the impression to another poster that they need to STFU and listen without validating their concerns, thoughts feelings and fears. Doesn't matter if it is me, Pilot, you or your husband. If you aren't validating the men on this site's feelings, then I think it is safe to say that you aren't doing it with your own spouse, isn't it? Or are you saying to me it only applies to a person's spouse when trying to bust a divorce? Or does one stop learning when they start giving advice instead of receiving?
Food for thought. I hope you don't get defensive and I mean that. I am also just trying to point some things out and share my thoughts and views.
). I don't feel a need to prove myself to you.