mlc rut

[pbetra]

Sorry, I meant to say welcome belatedly pbetra!
Hi Bea. You've been here longer than I have.

thx cczamo!

[beatrice]

No, not since late 2005, except intermittently in 2006. I think those living under the same roof have it hardest. I spent some of the summer of 2006 living in the same house (we had two homes) getting it ready to sell, and it was a nightmare.

In retrospect I can see clearly how crazy he was and how broken i was.

[pbetra]

No, not since late 2005, except intermittently in 2006. I think those living under the same roof have it hardest. I spent some of the summer of 2006 living in the same house (we had two homes) getting it ready to sell, and it was a nightmare.

In retrospect I can see clearly how crazy he was and how broken i was.

Thx beatrice - I agree, living w/ MLCer must be hardest
(even more) food for thought

[AJM]

P, part of the thing to consider is that living under the same roof is a *chance* to reconcile things. Not necessarily save your marriage, but reconcile. Living in separate houses makes that more difficult.
That doesn't mean you should contort yourself to be what you think he wants. That's a crazy path that will drive you insane But it is to say that close proximity is helpful if it works for you. No matter what, be you and let him be him.

AJ

[pbetra]

Thx for this AJM. I had not really thought of this 'other aspect', but you are right.

We were not friends when his insults & nastiness began about 4 months ago (and H can be brutal, rough! (words), hurtful & crude - it doesn't matter how hard it hurt me - 'I just got it'.

I nearly kicked him out one night, after he 'set me up'. Took me out one day, bought lunch & treated me nicely all day because he knew there would be deception that night. It was hurtful because we had all come from a lovely family vacation & I had no idea about what was really developing (this was earlier stage of H's MLC, so I did not recognize it or know anything about it).
Anyway, the next day, I thought of my child (who is not yet over recent major changes & is still affected).

Being under the same roof did lead to more civilty between us eventually. I also began to understand that there was more to his actions - his misfortunes & background had caught up w/him, translated through MLC.

It's a double edge sword to live w H - he really fluctuates re mood & behaviour. This was the reason for my wondering how spouses manage (!!) /live with MLCers.

However, there are 2 sides to everything! And everyone, like their situation is different. I know that it can go either way b/cuz of how it affects me. However, 'my take care of me goals' are not yet mature & still very much in their infancy. I will have to wait to see if that will work & distract me enough to live under same roof (esp for child). To be continued' ... LOL

Thx again AJM.
Take care, p

[pbetra]

Am back where I started, 'here'/mlc rut as previously indicated. (from confrontation methods my 'accidental theme thread' - http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...743#Post2468743) Again sorry about incnvenience. I realize that I had 2 other posts in that thread from Wonka & MrBond, which I will get to afterward.

Also had med.issue to take care of (not serious), and lost my online diary this week. Had tons of personal research from web, DB 'research' including Cadet's homework threads & many other forum members'posts. Also had MLCer/Me observations ... all gone!

Unfortunately, what I have currently write will not be followed by the records leading up to today, as I am unable to recall so much.
But the beat goes on! .

What I can say, is that I had growing resentment recently - didn't plan it, it just happened. Then indifference. (I will tell you about the impact of resentment & indifference in a bit).

I have been thinking about the past on & off for the last few months.

The M issues:
We both had - I suggested MC/T. at the time. H was VERY strongly against. (Would end M now if I were discovered on DB). I felt a T. would be 'outside of our emotional experience', would be objectve, could offer direction & advice going forward. I have been to therapy, so have my family whenever I felt burdened and neeede a load off. I've read self help. Started w/ Shyness, Philip Zimbardo at 17!! For H's family - theses things are very taboo. They judge & label effortlessly.

Enjoy life, each other & networks as couple:
After a while we both looked past certain things. Life wasn't so bad after all, we didn't know of any couple with issue free M! I didn't live in war torn zone, or famine affected region, or victim of 'darkest sides of humanity,' wasn't terminally ill (as a carer years ago, got small window into the world of the terminally ill. The FEAR resinated with me, the lack of control & helplessness at the time ... Lost my best friend at 20 - she mentioned experiencing term. illness & death ALONE. So really - what did I really have to 'gripe' about?

Life was not so bad:
Outdoor activities, road trips & travel, parties (attended & hosted), new places, new experiences, eating out, concerts, a home always filled w/people. we enjoyed our autonomy fully before starting family years after. Felt way more (!!)connected back then.


Things changed RADICALLY when the recession hit:
- job /employemnt: grew worse over a period of years.
- goals: dream goal, H's major g. failed. H told me years ago that he "had NEVER failed at anything/didn't know what that was like". He planned meticously & worked HARD for his ambitions. practicaly borderline type A approach! Money is practically an obsession with H's family. Said he "worked hard to never have to need them". H dominant mother talk about it a lot, control family & $$. They are a splinctered family.

Other:
- milestone birthday: we are late 40's/early 50's in the air. Said "not ready for 50's", told me not to say my age, people treat you differently (true). My mother ws open re: age as was I but I 'complied'
Hospitalized: just under 10 days prior to bomb, elderly relative got hospitalized. had good relationship. Saw drooling, lack of control, helplessness - briefly assisted before walking away.
(btw: my father was dominant, controlling. i don't like 'confrontation' - had enough of that re: him)

Thinking last week:
i noticed that whenever there is job prospect, H talks, is more like himself. I don't come from fam. that equated worth w/ $$ or job status. My parents liked decency first, then went from there. H's family is all abou There would be personal attacks esp. by mother although dripping in honey. I recall 'checkpoints along way of career' - always asking him of his progress or status re: work. I was also checke don as new wife in M - I ended R with them all after a while. This did nto bother H who ended it many years later after trying ot resolve his fam issues & feeling 'emotionally taxed, conceding defeat'.

Have to end here - back later, p.

[pbetra]

I don't know if everything finally got to me - but I stopped being careful or nice. I didn't respond too graciously to compliments - just brushed them off really quickly because I was tired of the hyprocrisy. Always the compliments just before leaving all dressed & 'cologned' ... as though that's salve or it makes a difference. Just preferred no words, DO what you usually do. I just wanted him to go!

I took the evening to pamper myself. I am generally homebound due to resources &/or responsibilities. Anyway, I know it wasn't the ideal reaction, but I felt to be/feel what I wanted to. Everything else arounds demands unrelenting patience these days. I am very alone & doing every single thing - I've always been patient anyway, long before this, and very rarely experience patience the other way around. So, I didn't think - I felt. I was so fed up - & then remainied in the bathroom for some pampering

Anyway, I think h picked up on the subtle cold breezes from me in our home. A few days ago, for the first time in a long time, I was spoken with - just casually. This was the first 'conversation' in a while instead of the disappearing act into the guest room, after a one liner when we do cross paths in the home.

His eyes were interesting during the conversation. Sad, searching. I think he was trying to recognize what in me was different. Independence maybe? Loss of dependability? (always taken for granted). I don't know, it was hard 'to read, but it was a pleasant conversation with him doing the initiating on both occasions.

Then, got my hair done re: weekend. h already had plans but I could tell H was curious. The next day he mentioned dinner to which I casually said "ok, would be nice - let's play by ear" (because I've heard this before & it just 'goes away' - words & no follow up action). That night, he did ask me to dinner.

It was awkward to know exactly how to act, what to say, b/cuz of the hand holding, stroking like before (?!!), attentive manner during the drive (& it was like old times, like him). It threw me a curve ... I was lost! I was pleasant but genuinely puzzled. He remained pleasant for the 2 days after before withdrawing a little on the 3rd (obviously due to fear should I believe & misunderstand this to be that he loves me again )

I know from DB not to get too excited. Quite frankly, I don't have energy to get excited re: him. I am lucky too met someone who's going through the same re her S, & hope to get together!! Looking forward to it. ... just hanging out.

Anyway, remained pleasant & am trying to respond so that he doesn't feel discouraged but still give him his much needed space. He really does not seem to know what he wants.

I try re: GAL as much as I can (for now)
Am detaching gradually (but still have work to do) & getting back to meditation (only interrupted because tof surprise events the past few days).

bye 4 now, p.

[Matt165]

Hi pbetra,
With my W's family, there are 2 sides. Her father left her, her brother and mother when she was 10 years old and it was an awful D. He abandoned his kids totally and never paid a penny in CS (was wanted for a time in the state where his kids lived), he left and put all assets in OW's name, made sure the D took long enough that the kids were over 18 when it ended (11 years!!) and her mom got only the family home, nothing more. Her mothers side of the family are really good people. They don't care how much money a person has, just what kind of person you are. Her fathers side...all about net worth! This wasn't a problem until W's father, after the death of his father, suddenly wanted to "make up" for all the bad things he had done to my W all her life. The thing is, for him to accept HER, she had to leave me as he said she was "wasting" her life as a mother and wife!

This drove my W into a deep depression as she has always wanted her fathers love and acceptance. That was 8 years ago and now that she has done what HE wanted her to do, he is totally running her life. Since about 3 months before she left he went from contacting her maybe once every 3 months to calling her 3-4 times a day and texting all the time. He talked her into changing her mind about filing for D, leaving the home, going to MC and she listens. It goes the same every time. She tells him no, I don't want to do X, he tells her over and over that she should do X and manipulates her into changing her mind. Even my D's say how "different (bad)" she is when she is around her father. He is the only person that has backed what she is doing. But she so badly wants his love and acceptance she only listens to him. It also doesn't help that he has cancer (very bad) and she feels it's now or never for her to get him accept her.

She says she wants to live her life on her own terms (why she had to leave) but allows her father to make every decision, down to where she puts her bed in HER room in her new house! Until she stops allowing him to run her life she will never get through her MLC as she will never experience what life on her own terms is like.

My W has become just like her father when it comes to money. She makes very good money in her job. She has now taken on a 2nd job as well! It's also not a coincidence that B-day came 3 months after the company I had worked for for 11 years closed (I was making more than her up to that point) and I started working for a startup where I wasn't making much at all. She said she would back me knowing it would take a long time to start making the same money as before but when it came down to it, she couldn't stand that I was making less than her. Her fathers side of the family influence.

To her mothers side of the family, she was successful. She has raised 2 kids (one 19, other 14), she was a good mother, married a good man who loved her, sacrificed "things" for giving her kids the best head start in life (private school, etc.), now has a good career helping others. To her fathers side she was a failure. She lives in a small older home, doesn't have a high "net worth", doesn't vacation every years in exotic places. To gain the acceptance from her dad she had to dump her old life completely. Add in MLC and thinking she needs to be "happy" and she's not, this is what she is doing.

We think that our s's have overcome their family backgrounds after 20 years or more together. The thing is they never really did. Of course like any M we had our problems (like you and H did). But they weren't so bad as to warrant dumping so many years together. What happened to our M's wasn't about what we did or didn't do, whether the M was bad or good. It's about the influences our S's families have had and are still having on their psyches. The push and pull of wanting their parents love and acceptance vs. living their own lives. I really believe MLC starts many years before we ever knew our S's. They are never really over issues from their past and once they reach middle age they start to panic thinking time is running out to resolve those issues.

Just something I've been thinking.

[pbetra]

>> after the death of his father, suddenly wanted to "make up" for all the bad things he had done to my W all her life. The thing is, for him to accept HER, she had to leave me as he said she was "wasting" her life as a mother and wife! <<

Hi Matt165,
Thank you for your helpful post! It's comforting to read other stories where common experiences meet. I can definitely relate to so much of what you wrote.
8 years re: you! How are you?!

For me, your W's experience was really sad to read of .. so young, so abandoned, & with a lenghty & calculated D, weaved by her father. And now this, the re-emergence of her father in HER life. So selfish (& 'sick' - he had his 'turn' ... to marry, have a family & has denied her that experience). It's no wonder she's in crisis & unable to break free. It's almost as if she were frozen in time, then awakened by his return & picked up where she left off - even though so much TIME elapsed in between.

I guess she isn't "wasting her life" anymore fulfilling HIS needs/wants & being controlled - incredible. I know of these types of people who fall off your 'life map', & then simply 'show up' in their old age, often when their sitch is less than ideal. In his case, age & illness. If W's father was wealthy with an elegant European socialite living the good life - Swiss Alps, Bora Bora, Kenya, Seychelles ... I doubt she would even be aware of his eventual passing!!

It is interesting how much stronger the negative of the two parents (also w/people generally), impact on individuals. You see, I was also reading how much more we are are likely to cycle negative experiences over positive ones. Apparently evolutionary development! Our ancestors were not the ones who looked at the world positively . They were negative and they SURVIVED & here we are!! (will fall off cliff, get mauled by bear, bitten by snake). No 'Disney thinking' here. Of course, we don't need that anymore with the level of information & progress we enjoy today, but like many evolutionary developments we still carry the 'wiring'.

When I read of your W, you are right, I don't know if she is strong enough to shake him off or get through MLC. He's manipulating the heart & mind of a little girl.

>> It's about the influences our S's families have had and are still having on their psyches. The push and pull of wanting their parents love and acceptance vs. living their own lives. <<

I will remember this, as it is beautifully put. Your thinking is 'dead on'. Regardless of what we did/didn't do, if the damage is there & buried, a life transition period will eventually trigger & open the Pandora's box of the MLCer's miserable history. Unfortunately, since the parent(s) 'breaks' their self esteem, then the parent can effectively heal hurt feelings or NOT.

My H's mother is still trying to get her way, even in old age! The difference of course, is that we no longer have her in our life, unlike your sitch.

I am not familiar with your sitch (4 now) but you seem to be doing well?
Until next time, take care, p.

[Matt165]

Thanks for the kind words pbetra,
It helps to know all that I wrote about. I knew going into our R that my W had major family issues re: her father. But I thought that she had learned from her experiences, she said she did. And with the fact that he wasn't a big part of her life (he didn't even bother to tell her when he remarried, let alone be invited to the wedding), I thought I was "safe" from his negative influence. All it took was him coming back in her life at a "bad" time when she was already going through a transition, and that was it. The little 10 year old girl inside her who so wanted (wants) her daddy's love came out to play.

The problem now is there is nothing I can do. There is no way for me to help pull her back to reality. Her father has now destroyed not only his family but my and his D's family as well. What makes someone so very evil as to even WANT to do that? How does a grown man act the way he does and have zero remorse?

I have always tried my best to be the best father I can be to my girls. I know one day they will leave and start families of their own and while I'll still be a part of their lives, I understand that is their time to live the best life possible. To have the ups and downs, good and bad of their own family. I KNOW that they will never be hurt by the things I do now. If only their mother were strong enough to break free of the awful past her father gave her.