This is the link to my previous thread. I started a new thread because I my stitch has changed so much from when I came to the board & I felt my topic was too vague.
A recap of my previous post- If you want more details of my stitch, I have several posts with very detailed info.
We have three children 5 & under. My baby was 11 weeks old when this started. H has worked 3 hours away Mon-Fri for the past 2 years
5/10/2014 my H tells me he's not happy, he's confused. 5/25/2014 ILYBNILWY says he's going to go do his own thing for a while. If in here when he figured it out, if Im not - then Im not. 5/26/2014 I find out through snooping there is OW 6/2/2014 H goes on fishing trip with buddies - find out later OW stayed in his hotel room
Around this time I go dark. Only communicating about kids or house issues.
6/15/2014 I confront him about OW he says they are friends & "hanging out" Because I saw the text msg between them. I told him this was disrespectful to be doing in our home or while he is out with our children. I asked/told him my boundary is no communication with OW while in my home or spending the very little time he has with our children. If it continues I told him we would sign a parenting plan & work out a schedule for the kids.
6/20/2014 we go to MC together for the one & only time he tells me OW slept in his bed but they only kissed. He tells me he took care of the situation with OW
6/23/2014 I find out he bought a prepaid cell phone
6/25/2014 I told him I knew he lied to me about contacting OW so we signed a calendar & agreed he will see kids every other weekend. Either they will go away for the weekend or I will. So we are not staying together & kids can still be at home.
7/13/2014 first time we have talked about anything in a month or so, I told him I understood he was on his own journey & that I was letting him go.
I know from the bank account that he is out partying. Big partying. He's running around like he's 21 years old, hanging out & partying with lots of people.
I have not updated my previous post since our talk on 7/13. He told me I could fix all of this if I wanted to. Not sure what he means, but I did tell him I wasn't going to beg. He asked why some family members that he has talked to told him I did not want a divorce - I told him that it was not my preference for my children. Im not going to beg him to stay. But the only thing I can control is me & I have been working with IC on finding myself again. He says that he has noticed some of my 180's.
In the meantime I have seen several pictures of him with about 3-4 different women/girls. We happen to have mutual friends or mutual friends of a friend. Not very many people know about our stitch so people are like "what the heck is going on?" Why are there fb pics of Sams H hanging out & partying with all these girls. And we had no "rules" so to speak during our separation. Because he BD said he was doing his own thing & could not say he could be committed to relationship.
This past Thursday afternoon he called angry b/c his cousin (who is like a brother) his wife has heard from people about what's going on. They live in same town where H works all week. Apparently he has been seen out with OW. He wants to know if I've talked to her. No. I can't control what other people do & Im not interested in arguing with him about it. (This is huge 180 for me) We end up chatting a few minutes about kids day at camp & some house issues. He tells me again that I could fix this, I did say I felt things were more complicated now b/c of OW. But I know that is a symptom & not our initial problem. He said he could change that anytime he wanted to. He tells me that it has actually been nice talking to me.
In my journey on this I have recognized our issues & my contribution to the breakdown of the marriage. But am questioning if I want a H like who my H is right now. He left me with a 5 yr old, 4 yr old & 11 week old baby with medical issues & major health problems.
I question his character. And how disrespectful to my children & me he has been. I was mentally preparing to file for D - after school starts for kids b/c I am beginning to question what Im standing for.
Last night he calls for kids, after he is done talking to the oldest he asks to talk to me. He asks about baby. Then he says how are you doing? He never asks me anything about me. We dont talk about ourselves or what we are doing. He says he has been thinking about us & wanted to see if I would like to go away with him for a couple of days. Then pick the kids up and spend time together as a family. I didnt know how to respond so I just said "let me think about it." I would like to spend some time with him without 3 little kids. This is a big issue in our M, I was too focused on our kids. I would like to hear what he has to say.
I don't want to scare the squirrel away so to speak. But I'm not interested in going away with him to spend time together & possibly start working on things if he's still in contact with OW. Do I ask about status of OW? Since he bought prepaid cell - that he doesn't know that I know about. He could just lie.
Advice on how to respond????
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
And now when he called tonight to ask about baby, he didnt mention anything about us going away or talking, or taking kids anywhere. My kids only have 2 weeks left of summer break. Do I bring it up to him?
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
Frankly, and I'm no vet here so take what I say with some salt, but a weekend away is too much too fast, IMO. I'm sure you desperately need some time away but I'd keep doing what you're doing, don't rush into this time away while the kids are still on break, THINK ABOUT YOU. If he mentions it again , suggest perhaps dinner where you two can chat, laugh, etc., but NOT about the kids or OW. make it light and YOU take the power to end the evening with him wanting more. Then think. Think, think, think... Is this the man you want? Are you the woman you want to be? Take it slowly. Very slowly. A date. Maybe a play date with him at the park with the kids and you... A weekend away? Too much too soon and that could backfire.
Thank You ss06. I appreciate your feedback. I think you are right. Too much, too soon. We did speak on the phone last night- I asked if he had a plan for something with just us or our family. He said not yet, he was just thinking about it.
We just see each other so little. He is staying 3 hours away. Only comes to see kids every other weekend. Either they leave the house or I leave the house on his weekends.
I said okay, no problem. Just figuring out summer camps for the next couple weeks. Trying not to pressure any talks.
He said he feels he owes it to the marriage to talk about things. He said he is scared that things would be how they were before. I agreed that I did not want that either. He said he would not be asking for anything from me that he didnt have at some other point in the marriage. He did say I feel like you are going to ask for things from me, that you haven't had before. Maybe I am, because this experience has changed me & I don't want what we had before either.
I did mention something about the past 3 months & he said he did not want to talk about that. He wants to talk about what led us there.
I agreed & tried to stfu about that for now. But how am I supposed to just erase everything he's done in 3 months that have further damaged the marriage? I know they are symptoms. But how do you rebuild trust? This feels like rug sweeping which Im very good at & responsible for getting us into this separation in the first place. I rug swept issues that were major for me. I became resentful & acted it out.
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
Another Note from last nights conversation is that I did get the opportunity to tell him that as long as he is "hanging out" (as he likes to call it) with other women that there is really nothing for us to talk about. He agreed with that. He said that wasn't a problem for him to change that.
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
Another Note from last nights conversation is that I did get the opportunity to tell him that as long as he is "hanging out" (as he likes to call it) with other women that there is really nothing for us to talk about. He agreed with that. He said that wasn't a problem for him to change that.
Good for you in standing up for yourself, Sam! Reading the above, and your initial post, I really like your style and respect your firm stance.
I'd encourage you to look up a poster named Train's sitch on the Infidelity forum (or is it here in Newcomers?). She really threaded the needle between "loving/forgiving" and "not gonna live in an open marriage" about as well as anyone I've seen here recently, and I think she could give you some strong support and advice.
You've already mentioned at least three times when your husband has said "that can change anytime you want it to." What does he mean by that???
I, too, am very impressed with your stance, Sam. Seems you're in a very good place, especially considering the crappy circumstances. I, too, was unsure about where I wanted to "be" with my wayward H. He had as much to prove to ME as I had to prove to HIM, if that makes sense.
One thing I found valuable from re-reading DR is a part where MWD writes that sometimes time is better spent figuring out "where to go from here" instead of "where did we go wrong?"
Have to admit: a little birdie told me to stop by so I've read this thread only. Will hop back to the other ASAP and get caught up.
Meanwhile, I think you're handling things fabulously.
Keep it up!
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
First let me say I have NOT read your whole thread. So what I say is based only on what I'm reacting to, here.
Also if it seems like a 2 x 4 is coming your way, I don't mean it to. I'm in a rush and so bear with me, I'm very direct but am probably more so tonight. I hope I don't offend. But a few things caught my eye and I lack time, so---here we go.
Oh, put a helmet on - in case you feel like these are 2 x 4's.
This is the link to my previous thread. I started a new thread because I my stitch has changed so much from when I came to the board & I felt my topic was too vague.
A recap of my previous post- If you want more details of my stitch, I have several posts with very detailed info.
We have three children 5 & under. My baby was 11 weeks old when this started. H has worked 3 hours away Mon-Fri for the past 2 years
Having been in this^^ type of situation, I can tell you up front it's BAD NEWS for a marriage, long term. It cannot go on indefinitely.
It's a recipe for marital failure, even if you know "some" couples who can do it. It's much harder, so why do that to a marriage and kids?
5/10/2014 my H tells me he's not happy, he's confused. Did you explore what that^ meant to him? If so, what did you learn? What would YOU SAY were the problems in the marriage BEFORE he said this?
And now, is there anything else or new to add?
5/25/2014 ILYBNILWY says he's going to go do his own thing for a while. If in here when he figured it out, if Im not - then Im not. 5/26/2014 I find out through snooping there is OW 6/2/2014 H goes on fishing trip with buddies - find out later OW stayed in his hotel room
Around this time I go dark. Only communicating about kids or house issues.
6/15/2014 I confront him about OW he says they are friends & "hanging out" Because I saw the text msg between them. I told him this was disrespectful to be doing in our home or while he is out with our children. I asked/told him my boundary is no communication with OW while in my home or spending the very little time he has with our children. If it continues I told him we would sign a parenting plan & work out a schedule for the kids.
6/20/2014 we go to MC together for the one & only time he tells me OW slept in his bed but they only kissed. He tells me he took care of the situation with OW
Did you ask him what he meant by that?
6/23/2014 I find out he bought a prepaid cell phone
6/25/2014 I told him I knew he lied to me about contacting OW so we signed a calendar & agreed he will see kids every other weekend. Either they will go away for the weekend or I will. So we are not staying together & kids can still be at home. and you did this to achieve what? I mean, what was YOUR GOAL? Dig deep.
7/13/2014 first time we have talked about anything in a month or so, I told him I understood he was on his own journey & that I was letting him go.
What did you mean by that? What do you think HE thought you meant?
I know from the bank account that he is out partying. Big partying. He's running around like he's 21 years old, hanging out & partying with lots of people. Are you doing anything to protect yourself or your kids, financially? Have you seen a L? You know you can and NOT do anything with the information? It is empowering to know your rights. You need "do" nothing with that info, not even tell him.
I have not updated my previous post since our talk on 7/13. He told me I could fix all of this if I wanted to. Not sure what he means, WELL THAT ^^ IS DAMN IMPORTANT TO FIGURE OUT. It's key.
I'd have pursued that topic like a dog with a bone. You need to know what he means. What is it he wants from you -- b/c it sure sounds as if he thinks you know.
Do you? Do not gloss over this. It's called a CLUE and he has some unmet needs he is telling you about.
It's crucial you know it and analyze it and work on it! He's giving you valuable "intel" so if you were a spy on a "recon mission" -- this would be the secret you need to know. And work on...
but I did tell him I wasn't going to beg. Wow, that is a knee-jerk prideful response. Why did you think he wanted you to "beg"?
What is going on that you are not telling us? What was your family life like growing up? Do you have divorce or adultery in your background?
Why didn't you simply open up your heart to him, to find out what HE is missing in the m, and to own your role in this - and to figure out if there is any room for mutual work to do, to restore your m?
What would you have "Risked" by asking that??
He asked why some family members that he has talked to told him I did not want a divorce - b/c he's HOPING you don't! Can you give him a crumb?
Or are you so mad and certain that this is a deal breaker?
If it is, then let him go NOW and drop all this. Seriously, the worst choice YOU can make is to stay married AND stay miserable.
Don't stay to punish him b/c your children and you will pay the price...
I told him that it was not my preference for my children.
Do you think that sounds like a woman who wants to own her role in this, and to fight for her man and her marriage? (I don't.)
Do you sense some "deeply felt regret" and a "passionate desire" for things to work out? No, I don't either. I think It's about as robotic as an answer can be.
Why did you choose that tone? Was it to punish him? To "teach him a lesson" (same thing)? What is going on in your head/heart? I sense too much pride and self righteousness for him to get past. The thing is, if an adulterer fears that this will be thrown in their face every time you two fight or held over his head like the sword of Damacles, why should he work to "earn your trust" back when in reality, you won't give it to him anyhow?
Why climb Mt Everest if you're going to withhold affection and real commitment from him anyhow?
I HAVE seen couples recover from affairs and I mean really recover. It IS possible but it takes a humble heart on BOTH parties, not just the wayward spouse.
Im not going to beg him to stay.
NO offense, but yeah I think we all get that.
But the only thing I can control is me & I have been working with IC on finding myself again. He says that he has noticed some of my 180's.
Such as? What does "Finding myself" mean? Have you some flaws you are working to ameliorate and or some anger you need to release? I sense a LOT of resentment. What can you do to release that anger and resentment and to work on forgiveness?
Do you believe forgiveness is a gift you give yourself, or some "get out of jail free" card for him? Do you see the value to YOU, of letting go?
What do you think it means in marriage vows when it says to go "from this day forward"? Do you think it MIGHT mean to let go of the past?
In the meantime I have seen several pictures of him with about 3-4 different women/girls.
Sounds as if there is no specific "special" Ow then, correct? Just the free single life HE can argue you released him to do, since you "let him go", correct?
We happen to have mutual friends or mutual friends of a friend. Not very many people know about our stitch so people are like "what the heck is going on?" Why are there fb pics of Sams H hanging out & partying with all these girls. And we had no "rules" so to speak during our separation.
Because he BD said he was doing his own thing & could not say he could be committed to relationship. Understood. To me that means you can't really hold him accountable for it - but then, HE has to deal with the fallout of others seeing him in that position, and maybe he can use more discretion in who puts pictures of him and where. For HIS sake, and the kids, and yours. And of course for the chance of a recon, it'd be a lot easier if you did not have to see that.
This past Thursday afternoon he called angry b/c his cousin (who is like a brother) his wife has heard from people about what's going on. They live in same town where H works all week. Apparently he has been seen out with OW. He wants to know if I've talked to her. No. I can't control what other people do & Im not interested in arguing with him about it. (This is huge 180 for me)
Then well done. As long as YOU stay calm about it and BRIEF (don't rant, and your words will have MORE Power by being brief).
Just say something along the lines of
"H, I don't control others. It hurts me more than you seem to realize & I think it's pretty inappropriate for you to be angry at ME for others seeing you with OW and commenting about it. Let's not make it worse than it already is, ok?" > And then you change topics or get off the phone.
Do NOT harp about it.
This will elevate you in his eyes, and if anything can generate remorse in him, it'll be that type of approach.
No judgement but a little bit righteous "Hey. I"m the harmed party here, I'm hurt, but NOT fuming or ranting, so don't you rant at ME"...
get it? Oh, and no more 'I won't beg" from you. He knows that and it's odd to say it anyhow. No one asked you to beg.
We end up chatting a few minutes about kids day at camp & some house issues. He tells me again that I could fix this, AND THAT MEANS WHAT?? Dig and tell us what he's talking about. Don't you want to know? he is telling you what love language of his was not filled, what need was unmet. Sure he used a lousy way of showing that but you must own some of this b/c guess what/
No WAS comes back to a marriage they left......unless...
they believe that the marriage --- can be better/different than before.
What are YOU doing to show him that?
I did say I felt things were more complicated now b/c of OW. But I know that is a symptom & not our initial problem. He said he could change that anytime he wanted to. He tells me that it has actually been nice talking to me.
So what are you working on?
In my journey on this I have recognized our issues & my contribution to the breakdown of the marriage. But am questioning if I want a H like who my H is right now. He left me with a 5 yr old, 4 yr old & 11 week old baby with medical issues & major health problems. IF you'll never forgive him then leave him now and end it all. But don't pretend he's not possibly sending out an SOS to the universe. I think he is. He's NOT saying "I LOVE OW", he's saying he wants YOU but you need to fix something you are not mentioning. Has he been in a sex starved marriage or what?
He says you can fix this anytime. What does he mean? Is there a prideful Mexican stand off going on between you two? Who is more stubborn, you or him?
Why do I think pride is the big factor here? \\
I question his character. And how disrespectful to my children & me he has been. I was mentally preparing to file for D - after school starts for kids b/c I am beginning to question what Im standing for.
I think pride is factoring so much here that it'll be hard to get to the truth and heart of the matter with it in the way. Put the wounded ego away and think about what is best for your kids without making your pain and anger into "righteous causes, b/c I have been there and done that and it helps no one. So don't bother with the "my kids must see FAIRNESS" b/c that means "I want to punish my h and claim to be RIGHT while I break up my family or refuse to put my pride aside.
There is an important line between healthy self respect and a wounded ego. But sometimes it is hard to see where that line is.
Last night he calls for kids, after he is done talking to the oldest he asks to talk to me. He asks about baby. Then he says how are you doing? He never asks me anything about me. We dont talk about ourselves or what we are doing. then this ^^ was new and positive.
He says he has been thinking about us & wanted to see if I would like to go away with him for a couple of days. Then pick the kids up and spend time together as a family. HUGE POSITIVE!!
I didnt know how to respond so I just said "let me think about it." I GUESS you were surprised so I hope you called him back and accepted....yes?
\ I would like to spend some time with him without 3 little kids. This is a big issue in our M, I was too focused on our kids.
\ every couple needs couple time. Great chance for you to show him how you feel about him as a man.
I would like to hear what he has to say. how about you would like to show him how you feel about him??
I don't want to scare the squirrel away so to speak. But I'm not interested in going away with him to spend time together & possibly start working on things if he's still in contact with OW. Do I ask about status of OW? Since he bought prepaid cell - that he doesn't know that I know about. He could just lie.
Advice on how to respond????
BE the better choice. BE a woman only a fool would leave.
Leave the rest in God's hands. He's reaching out to you, don't bite his hand.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
what does he mean by saying YOU can fix this anytime?
It's a big deal for you to gloss over. It's KEY to restoring your marriage or making it a better one. Without fixing this, whatever it is, you have very little hope,
so what is it? Can you share that with us?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Starsky & Train - thank you so much for stopping by my thread. I appreciate it greatly. I am following along some other threads in Infidelity section that are active. I am taking notes & using your suggestions in my own stitch. I am going to go back and reread Trains posts tonight on how to do loving/forgiving.
25yrs - I appreciate you stopping by also. I am okay with the 2x4's. Thank you for the time you spent in asking questions. I am posting from my phone, so I will respond to everything asap.
Thank you all so much! You are all vets around here and I trust you will point me in the right direction!
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
"He told me I could fix all of this if I wanted to. Not sure what he means, but I did tell him I wasn't going to beg. "
I think it's fairly obvious. He believes that there are things that you could do to make the M work better and improve it.
From all of your posts, all you do is seem to focus on the A and I sense alot of pride coming from you. Put that aside. What things did YOU do to contribute to the downfall of the M? What did he say to you that needed to change?
Now to be very clear, I'm not saying that what you did gave him reason to have an A. But it seems as if you didn't explain what M issues you had. Be honest and post them here. Take a good hard look at yourself. Only then can we give you some solutions.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Train- I stayed up until 2 am reading your previous threads. Wow!
I appreciate all of you successful DB's stopping by my thread.
I am working on putting my thoughts down of the marriage problems & a little more background of our history. It should help give everyone a clearer picture.
I have been working on it from desktop throughout the day. (3 little kids - keep me busy!) It's going to be long - but I will finish it up as soon as I can get the kids settled for the night.
Thanks so much all of you!
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
"I am working on putting my thoughts down of the marriage problems & a little more background of our history. It should help give everyone a clearer picture. "
Just be sure to be brutally honest with how things were. I know it's easy to paint ourselves as being the saints in the M, especially when there's an A, but the more honest you can be, the better we can help.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
It's a recipe for marital failure, even if you know "some" couples who can do it. It's much harder, so why do that to a marriage and kids? He had an opportunity for job experience in new position and was supposed to only be there 2 years. Now, 2&1/2 years later. He's been promoted. Is making very good money. Says he can't make that here where we live. Not ready to come home. Doesn't want me & children to move & for our children to grow up in that area. During BD he told me he feels like his life is there now.
5/10/2014 my H tells me he's not happy, he's confused.
Did you explore what that^ meant to him? If so, what did you learn? What would YOU SAY were the problems in the marriage BEFORE he said this?
And now, is there anything else or new to add?
This was said during BD and the day after. He told me he was lonely. Not happy with our marriage. I did not explore the confusion part.
He tells me he took care of the situation with OW
Did you ask him what he meant by that?
He told me "The situation has been handled" He said called her & told her that his wife thinks there was something going on with them. Ad he would not be talking to her anymore. I did not ask him to do this. I just stated that my boundaries were that there would be no communication with her from our family home while he was spending time with our children. He told me he was only coming home to see them. I did say that if he crossed my boundary we would go to an every other weekend schedule.
agreed he will see kids every other weekend. Either they will go away for the weekend or I will. So we are not staying together & kids can still be at home.
I felt like I stated a boundary and after I knew that he lied to me about it so he could continue to communicate from our home. I felt like I needed to stand firm. I told him I knew he lied to me about the communication ending in our home and we were going to agree to a schedule. My H can never give a definite answer as to when he will be home - sometimes he says Thursday night, sometimes Fri around lunch, sometimes Friday night. I felt like this was cake eating. He would come home on the weekends and I'm still here cooking dinner & doing baths & primarily taking care of kids. He lays on the couch looking at his phone constantly.
And, my 5 old year old told me a couple of days ago that daddy has 2 phones now. One he uses for texting and the other one is the one we call you on & he takes pictures with. Guess there is no point in asking about his burner phone?
[b]I told him I understood he was on his own journey & that I was letting him go.
What did you mean by that? What do you think HE thought you meant?and you did this to achieve what? I mean, what was YOUR GOAL? Dig deep. I told him this after we signed our schedule for the kids. My goal was to let him know that I was detaching from him. In MC office the week before he said to C that he "wished I would just let him go." He told me he felt like I was pressuring him to work on the marriage. I wanted him to know that I understood he needed to figure things out for himself & no amount of convincing I was doing was going to make him stay.
I know from the bank account that he is out partying. Big partying. He's running around like he's 21 years old, hanging out & partying with lots of people.
Are you doing anything to protect yourself or your kids, financially? Have you seen a L? You know you can and NOT do anything with the information? It is empowering to know your rights. You need "do" nothing with that info, not even tell him. I have had a consultation with a lawyer. He is using tons of marital assets on his partying with & without OW. He is spending an average of $1100 week on bars & food. He does not know that I went to see a lawyer.
on 7/13. He told me I could fix all of this if I wanted to. Not sure what he means,
WELL THAT ^^ IS DAMN IMPORTANT TO FIGURE OUT. It's key.
I'd have pursued that topic like a dog with a bone. You need to know what he means. What is it he wants from you -- b/c it sure sounds as if he thinks you know.
Do you? Do not gloss over this. It's called a CLUE and he has some unmet needs he is telling you about.
It's crucial you know it and analyze it and work on it! He's giving you valuable "intel" so if you were a spy on a "recon mission" -- this would be the secret you need to know. And work on...
He was being kind of a smart a$$ and saying "maybe if you gave me a little more a$$, we wouldn't have these problems" "so do you want to go have sex & start working on fixing this?" He also said that he thought after he BD "that I should have come to him & told him no that I loved him and wasn't going to let him do this." The weekend after BD I told him I was willing to do whatever it took to get things back on track. and that I loved him very much. I texted him a few days later & told him that I should have been a better wife and I specifically listed out things that I knew that I did not do. ( I will address those things at the end)
but I did tell him I wasn't going to beg.
Wow, that is a knee-jerk prideful response. Why did you think he wanted you to "beg"?
What is going on that you are not telling us? What was your family life like growing up? Do you have divorce or adultery in your background?
Why didn't you simply open up your heart to him, to find out what HE is missing in the m, and to own your role in this - and to figure out if there is any room for mutual work to do, to restore your m?
What would you have "Risked" by asking that?? In saying I wasn't going to beg him, I felt like that's what he wanted me to do. He wanted to host a memorial day party at our house 2 days after BD. And I said "how am I supposed to fake my way through a bar-b-q?" And he said to me "well you said you would do anything to keep our marriage." I feel like my H tries to manipulate me & others to get what he wants when he wants it. My family was a mess. My mom is currently Separated from her 4th H. My father left when I was 2 yo. I never had a close relationship with my dad. He only came to see me 2-3 times per year. Much of that is probably b/c of my mom. She felt like he was hanging around bad people (and they were) - she wanted him to take me as little as possible. Her 2nd H was physically abusive to her. I witnessed it. They were married from when I was 6-16.
I did try to open up my heart to him at that time, He told me "too little, too late." I told him that I would continue to love him. And he said, "if I change my mind in 6 months and you are not around then it's my bad." I feel like he knows that he gets a free pass to go out and play and we will all be here waiting for him when he returns.
He asked why some family members that he has talked to told him I did not want a divorce -
b/c he's HOPING you don't! Can you give him a crumb?
Or are you so mad and certain that this is a deal breaker?
If it is, then let him go NOW and drop all this. Seriously, the worst choice YOU can make is to stay married AND stay miserable.
Don't stay to punish him b/c your children and you will pay the price...
I was trying to stay strong. This is a 180 for me. Maybe not the right way to handle. I feel taken advantage of and that he knows I will always be here. I didn't want him to feel like he always has me as Plan B. I will do whatever it takes to keep my family together. In our relationship my H has always controlled everything.
My childhood was awful. H childhood was too. Both of his parents died by the time he was 6 yo. He has no brothers or sisters. He lived with grandmother until he was 12 and then an aunt & uncle from 12-18.
I told him that it was not my preference for my children.
Do you think that sounds like a woman who wants to own her role in this, and to fight for her man and her marriage? (I don't.)
Do you sense some "deeply felt regret" and a "passionate desire" for things to work out? No, I don't either. I think It's about as robotic as an answer can be.
Why did you choose that tone? Was it to punish him? To "teach him a lesson" (same thing)? What is going on in your head/heart? I sense too much pride and self righteousness for him to get past. The thing is, if an adulterer fears that this will be thrown in their face every time you two fight or held over his head like the sword of Damacles, why should he work to "earn your trust" back when in reality, you won't give it to him anyhow?
Why climb Mt Everest if you're going to withhold affection and real commitment from him anyhow?
I HAVE seen couples recover from affairs and I mean really recover. It IS possible but it takes a humble heart on BOTH parties, not just the wayward spouse.
I do believe that couples can recover. And you are correct because in my previous thread I wrote about how he said he "was not going to live the rest of his life with me thinking he is a liar, and having this brought up forever." Previously I did tell him that I absolutely did not want a divorce. I probably did sound robotic. I thought it would be good for him to see me detached from the situation - like an outsider just talking to him about how his wife feels.
Such as? What does "Finding myself" mean? Have you some flaws you are working to ameliorate and or some anger you need to release?
I lost myself in my kids. I had 3 babies in 5&1/2 years. They became my life. Especially since he has been gone. I lost myself. I Forgot who I was or what I even liked to do because I'm so busy keeping everybody fed, bathed, & alive. I'm working on GAL. I have been spending time with friends. I am going away this weekend to the beach by myself. I'm going to go back to bible study when school starts. I still take kids to church. And I would like to volunteer at the Ronald Mcdonald house at the hospital where my baby was as soon as older kids start back to school/preschool. It's close to my heart. I didn't stay at the Ronald Mcdonald house because I wanted to see my other kids each morning before school but it was available to me. I know how scary it is to have a NICU baby and I would like to pay it forward in some way.
I sense a LOT of resentment. What can you do to release that anger and resentment and to work on forgiveness?
Do you believe forgiveness is a gift you give yourself, or some "get out of jail free" card for him? Do you see the value to YOU, of letting go?
What do you think it means in marriage vows when it says to go "from this day forward"? Do you think it MIGHT mean to let go of the past?
BINGO!! Resentment. That is my biggest issue in the marriage. I don't know how to release the resentment. I do believe forgiveness is for me. But, I do also feel like its a get out jail free card for him.
In our marriage there have been things that have happened that I don't feel were fully dealt with. I never got a true sense of remorse from him. I got "I'm Sorry" and its only if he's caught in a lie. Then I swept it under the rug so our perfect life could keep trucking along. Little things have happened & been said throughout the marriage that have chipped away at me. So it becomes hard to want to go run up an kiss someone or initiate sex with them.
Examples - He had a habit of porn & hanging out at strip clubs which led us to our MC 4 years ago. He lied to me about it all the time. I found out a year ago through a friends wife that her H & my H had been at a strip club. Her H hired one of the girls for additional services. My H straight up lied to me until he knew that his friends W had already called me. Then I got "I'm Sorry, it wont happen again." It wasn't brought up again because my son was having a birthday party the next day. I was really great at rug sweeping.
When I was pregnant with Baby #2. He told me one night that if I wouldn't F him, he would find someone who would.
When we went to MC 4 years ago it was mainly because my H drinking was out of control. I got calls from police. People would call me to get him b/c he was passed out. He wrecked a boat. And he was very verbally abusive. We dealt with those issues in MC. He says he has made a 180 with all of these things. Which he has. And he says I am still the same b!tch I was 4 years ago.
When I saw all the secret folder apps on his phone - the only thing I can think of is porn stuff. And I know from bank records that he was at strip club this past Saturday night. Then he calls the next day & says "I want us to maybe spend some time together." What? I'm so confused. I feel like so much less of a person. I have had 3 babies. I breastfed 3 children. I do not look like a 21 year old stripper. I know that I am attractive and not overweight but, still.
Two weekends ago when I last saw him, he kept talking about having sex. I did tell him that I wasn't having sex with him. He swears he hasn't been "screwing" anyone. Anyway, we ended up having sex. I think I'm pretty good at separating my emotions from it. First time we had sex since middle of May. But afterwards he says "what happened to your boobs?" I told him I stopped breastfeeding. He says " well you are going to have to get your boobs fixed." Thanks, Buddy!!!
Another huge resentment, I have no access to money. He gives me an allowance check to by groceries, target, clothes for kids. He pays the bills. His paycheck is direct deposited to his personal bank account and he writes me a check from that. I did not even know how much he makes until I started looking through bank statements & last years tax return. I know this is my own fault. But he also does not want me to see where he spends his money or as he says give him a hard time about what he spends. And as my attorney stated he is giving me and his children about 8% of his income. He gives me & kids less money per week than what he is spending on food.
I feel like he doesn't see me as an equal partner. And that he always wants a little leverage over me.
Resentment - I am single parenting our kids and busting my a$$ all week to take care of the kids by myself. He goes out to dinner every night, he plays golf, he goes to concerts, goes on fishing trips, goes on hunting trips. He does whatever the heck he wants to do. I never get a break. On the weekends he will grill something or cook sometimes but I still am primary caregiver of children.
In the meantime I have seen several pictures of him with about 3-4 different women/girls.
Sounds as if there is no specific "special" Ow then, correct? Just the free single life HE can argue you released him to do, since you "let him go", correct?
No, there was a special one. The one he was texting 10-15 times a day from our house on the weekends. This is same one he took on vacation with him. The one he goes out to eat with several times per week just the two of them. The same one that he said he handled the situation. The other girls are probably more of party girls. They are partying together in the pictures. they are at bars, on boats & drunk. He told me in counseling he has 3 or 4 girls chasing after him, wanting to get together with him.
Because he BD said he was doing his own thing & could not say he could be committed to relationship.
Understood. To me that means you can't really hold him accountable for it - but then, HE has to deal with the fallout of others seeing him in that position, and maybe he can use more discretion in who puts pictures of him and where. For HIS sake, and the kids, and yours. And of course for the chance of a recon, it'd be a lot easier if you did not have to see that. I can't hold him accountable for anything he is doing? Really? Because he told me he wanted to be alone & figure out what he wanted to do. And then I find out & hear all this other stuff. I mean if you really think I can't hold him accountable - but how do I not acknowledge all the additional damage he has done to our marriage?
He tells me again that I could fix this,
AND THAT MEANS WHAT?? Dig and tell us what he's talking about. Don't you want to know? he is telling you what love language of his was not filled, what need was unmet. Sure he used a lousy way of showing that but you must own some of this b/c guess what/
No WAS comes back to a marriage they left......unless...
they believe that the marriage --- can be better/different than before.
What are YOU doing to show him that?
He definitely has a love language that's not being filled. I'm very disappointed to say even after MC 4 years ago. I did not know about 5LL until I came here. He needs affection. He's dying for it. Affection is not one of my LL. He wants me to initiate sex. He says sex isn't spontaneous anymore. He says I don't hold his hand. When he tries to kiss me, I turn my head and let him kiss my cheek. I know that sounds horrible. I hate that we have such an ugly past. But, I don't know how to get over it. Because I am a rug sweeper. He also feels like I am too dependent on him to make decisions. I tend to be VERY indecisive even about mundane things.
IF you'll never forgive him then leave him now and end it all. But don't pretend he's not possibly sending out an SOS to the universe. I think he is. He's NOT saying "I LOVE OW", he's saying he wants YOU but you need to fix something you are not mentioning. Has he been in a sex starved marriage or what?
He says you can fix this anytime. What does he mean? Is there a prideful Mexican stand off going on between you two? Who is more stubborn, you or him?
Why do I think pride is the big factor here?
Pride is probably a big factor. I don't know how to let that go and still have some sense of self respect because I also feel he has no respect for me. I'm thinking he means fixing it by giving/showing him affection. Just going based on the few things he has told me. We haven't had an in depth talk about our relationship and what went wrong. He did tell me Monday night that he is ready to talk about things soon. Sex starved? Maybe. I was 9 months preg in February. Had a c section. Baby stayed in the hospital for 29 days. I stayed at the hospital 18 hours a day. We brought baby home needing a ton of additional care & I had literally no time or energy to be affectionate. dealing with a newborn & 2 other small children all week by myself. I was literally - touched out. Not trying to make excuses but after what I went thru with baby, sex was the last thing on my mind.
I was mentally preparing to file for D - after school starts for kids b/c I am beginning to question what Im standing for. I think pride is factoring so much here that it'll be hard to get to the truth and heart of the matter with it in the way. Put the wounded ego away and think about what is best for your kids without making your pain and anger into "righteous causes, b/c I have been there and done that and it helps no one. So don't bother with the "my kids must see FAIRNESS" b/c that means "I want to punish my h and claim to be RIGHT while I break up my family or refuse to put my pride aside.
There is an important line between healthy self respect and a wounded ego. But sometimes it is hard to see where that line is.
All truths.
Last night he calls for kids, after he is done talking to the oldest he asks to talk to me. He asks about baby. Then he says how are you doing? He never asks me anything about me. We dont talk about ourselves or what we are doing.
then this ^^ was new and positive.
He says he has been thinking about us & wanted to see if I would like to go away with him for a couple of days. Then pick the kids up and spend time together as a family.
HUGE POSITIVE!!
I didnt know how to respond so I just said "let me think about it."
I GUESS you were surprised so I hope you called him back and accepted....yes?
I didn't know what to say. When he called Monday night. He didn't bring it up. So I texted him after kids were in bed and asked if I could give him a call. I told him I would like to talk about things and asked him when he was thinking of wanting to do this so we could make arrangements for the kids. He said he was still just thinking about it. He said he misses me but he is so scared that in a year we will end up right back where we are now. I told I did not want that either. I said "Okay, no problem." I don't want to be too pushy.
To acknowledge opening my heart to him, I did that. My text was on June 2. This is my Pre DB days. So I feel like he does know where I stand in the marriage. Even though my actions have since shown that I have pulled away.
"I could have been a better wife. I understand that I took our relationship for granted, I should have told you how much I appreciate you, how proud I am of you, told you how much I still am in love with you & that I love everything about you. I should have made more time for us. I should have been showing you how much you mean to me. I accept responsibility for my actions - I think I have been so wrapped up in the kids that I forgot to be a wife as well as a mother. I got busy & preoccupied and stopped making our relationship a priority. I understand now how you must not feel important to me. I know that I hurt you. I am sorry for that. I am going to work on being the best person I can be. And getting the ability & self confidence to show more love & affection. I value our marriage and our family. I believe there is hope for our marriage."
When I found DB I thought this is pursuing and he specifically said in counseling he wished I would let him go. So I thought I needed to pull back hard.
Our MC feels my H has narcissitic characteristics making it hard for him to express empathy, the manipulation, and that he's just a little better, smarter etc. than everyone else. Not saying that he has that personality disorder but he definitely has some of the traits.
I want to be firm with him. Because I never have been. I want him to know that I am not the same person he left.
Pre BD He has told me I am like living with a man. No cudddles, no affection. I know that he sees me as a b!tch. I probably am/was. I NOW see I was filled with resentment over things I could not control. The resentments and my actions were all non verbal. I'm pretty passive in talking and he is super controlling. But I pretty much never answered my phone when he called. I never texted him during the day to tell him the kids or I missed him. I thought that doing this would show him I was strong and we were doing fine without him. But then last night I realized if I was gone working, I would want to know that they missed me.
I was watching Brene Brown on Oprah's lifeclass last night and she was talking about vulnerability and it hit me. I think I never wanted to be vulnerable. I know I have abandonement issues from my father. And the one thing I feared the most actually happened. I was abandoned. But maybe because of my own doing.
I'm digging deep here guys.
He comes here tomorrow to spend the weekend with the kids. I will see him for a very little amount of time to give him the rundown of taking care of baby for the weekend. I will see him again Sunday night when I get back. He may drive back that night or stay in spare room and leave around 4:30 am Monday like he did when things were "normal".
I don't know how to act around him. I went dark as soon as I found DB minus a few conversations we have had. Until July 13. But since he went back to work on July 14 it's been pretty dim except for the reaching out he did last Sunday and conversation we had Monday.
I appreciate Starsky's firm stance & Train's exposure of the affair. I know the affair isn't the main issue. We have a few main issues. It's just what hurts the most right now.
So there it is, all the ugly truths. My marriage. It's sad that when I write it all out - it looks like one big mess. When I look at this whole picture of these two people, that are me & my H. I wonder what the heck happened to us. We started dating when I was 19 & he was 23. 17 years later - Who did we become? How did we get here?
Thank You Everyone. I am not rebuttaling anything you are saying. Just trying to explain my thought process in some of the things I have said or done in my stitch. I truly appreciate your opinions and your time. Thanks!
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
Sam, I haven't read your previous thread, so I apologize if you've already answered this, but what about H makes you want to be with him? Just my 2 cents- From a couple of his comments, it sounds from the outside like he treats you as an object. Know that you deserve better than that.
A friendly neighborhood disclaimer: Sam, not everyone agrees on approaches around here - and, from what I've read, A's in particular REALLY put people in different camps sometimes on how to DB. Yes, my approach was more firm - I listened to (and agreed with) Starsky probably 95% of the time in my own sitch ... and I agree with him at least 95% of the time still. But some of the things I did - such as exposing my H's affair - does not align with every, single DB principle.
But what I did *worked* to re-attract my H. It also *worked* in that not only do I have my own self-respect in tact, but my H is *treating* me respectfully.
No approach is guaranteed, obviously. I WILL say your sitch sounds a whole lot like mine pre-BD. I'll also say that you (and/or we) can psychoanalyze you(rself) all day long - and maybe you DO have unresolved abandonment issues - but from what I just read, you are a smart, articulate, level-headed, attractive woman who is independent and patient enough to raise your kids on potatoes while your H lives life high-on-the-hog.
I'll also say that the whole "independent, I-don't-want-to-appear-weak-and-vulnerable" thing can make us pretty crappy wives.
There's a balance in there somewhere, Sam. I think it should be high on your priority list to find it.
Let me see if I can think "out loud" here, using primarily my own sitch as an example.
Just like you, I realized, during the separation with my H, that I had lost myself BIG TIME during the course of our M. I had let myself go. And - if I'm being honest - I had become somewhat of a martyr: "I CAN'T go out with friends! I have nothing to wear! I've gained too much weight to wear my pre-pregnancy clothes, and I spend all the money we budgeted for clothes on the kids!!! Waaah! Waaah! Poor pitiful me!" (Okay, maybe I wasn't THAT dramatic, but looking back, that has to be EXACTLY what I sounded like.)
Truthfully, even DURING our M I realized that I had let myself go. But it was always the same excuses: I homeschool S8 and stay home with D3. I'm dealing with two teenagers primarily on my own. I don't have time for me. Did I mention I don't have anything to wear?
And you wanna know something? I just assumed my H was going to stick around, Sam. That's how my parents' M was: they weren't wildly passionate, they hardly ever held hands, they never really had to WORK on their M. They just.showed.up. They were loyal. Period. And I assumed - even though my H had cheated on me once before, early on in our M - that being together 8 more years meant we had everything down pat: maybe we weren't HAPPY, but we would "just show up" until the kids were grown, then we could enjoy life ... and each other ... a little more.
Hogwash.
Who was Sam in the beginning of your relationship? Tell us about who you were that attracted your H to you in the first place. Just from reading your posts, I already feel like I may know ... and that she may be a little lost right now in dirty diapers and juice boxes.
Again, you'll get varying opinions about this for sure, and we can psycho-babble all day long about what came first - the chicken or the egg - when we talk about how *incredibly* disrespectful your H has been toward you. But the simple fact is: Wow. He's been incredibly disrespectful toward you. And you deserve MUCH better than that.
To ask a wife and the mother of your children: "What happened to your boobs?" And to follow that up with: "You need to do something about that"??!?
Um, no. Just no.
I'll be honest: I wouldn't want to sleep with a man who said that to me, either! Gee whiz!
You will likely be surprised to find, though, Sam, that when you learn to like and respect *yourself* again, your H may just follow suit. And if he *doesn't* follow suit? YOU CAN CHOOSE whether you want to continue in your M or not. That knife cuts both ways.
This was my approach, as you probably already know from reading my sitch: Yes, I exposed the A, hoping it would end it quicker once the secrecy and risk were gone. I set firm boundaries with my H. I told him I would not discuss our relationship, or anything reconciliation-related, until/unless he broke things off with OW and agreed to a complete, full transparency plan. He laughed at me and repeatedly swore he was never coming back home. But that was okay; I stuck to my boundaries, realizing I'm a prize, I will be *no one's* "Plan B," and, yes, I was willing to lose my M if he did not end his A. I was not going to be in an open marriage. Period. At the same time, I wrestled with who *I* had become as a woman and a wife. I realized it would be hard to re-attract my H if I continued letting myself go and being a nagging "Old Mother Hubbard" who basically completely shut my H out, even - I'm ashamed to admit - of our bed. I mean, what man would WANT to live with that???
So I started working on ME. Slowly, I started feeling better about myself; I even bought myself a new outfit - complete with jewelry - at least every two weeks. I started wearing a little make-up and throwing in earrings every day. (This was to help me feel better and also proved to be important because my H would find reasons to just drop by the house unannounced ... until I also set a boundary with THAT.) I started meeting up with friends, shooting guns, reading a little more and even planning things to do with the kids on my own ... which was a pretty big deal because we were always cooped up in the house. Toward my H? I became more calm. I wouldn't engage with him. I'd ignore texts that were meant to fuel a fire and would only answer texts that asked a question, presented an emergency or required a response due to something with the kids. But if he was having a "calm" day and would text me something about his work (usually a complaint), I would respond kindly, "Wow. That must have been difficult to hear, especially considering how hard you're working. And just for what it's worth, by the way, I really do appreciate you working so hard and continuing to provide for our family during this difficult time for us all. That really means a lot."
All that to say: I put down firm boundaries that protected my family and my heart. But I also worked simultaneously on being a better me ... not only for myself but for the person I would find myself in a relationship with down the road. And I hoped that would be my H.
I started feeling a lot better about myself; people even commented that I looked years younger. That was mainly because I started feeling good and confident. I reached a place where I knew I would be okay with or without my H or my M. And, no, I didn't coddle him, and I didn't allow him to treat me like a doormat ... which would have done NOTHING positive for my PMA or self-esteem while he was with OW. And ANY self-esteem we can hang onto during these difficult times is worth hanging onto, do you agree?
And what's cool, Sam, is that H noticed the changes - big time. At the risk of sharing TMI, when he came home, he told me one of the things he'd really like for me to do is send him - ahem - pictures from time to time. At first, my initial reaction (only in my mind) was "old Train": "Ew. How immature! That's what high-schoolers do! What if I accidentally send it to the wrong person? Can't you just wait until you get home and see the real deal?"
And then it hit me: Eureka! That's what high-schoolers do! That's what H and I would have done (if we'd had nifty, high-tech cell phones when we were dating). And - punch in the gut - that's what he and OW were doing.
I should note, too, Sam, that when I let go of my own inhibitions a little, I felt sexier and more attractive ... and the other girls out there in the world - even OW - really didn't matter so much anymore.
You're right: The A is a symptom of much bigger problems in the M. But *until As are over*, I do not think you can start working on those other problems. It just doesn't work. Affairs cause people to think and behave *completely differently* than who they'd otherwise be, and there's a physical reason for that involving the brain and chemicals and all that jazz.
Also, you have to get *yourself* in an okay place, mentally. You have to find your self-confidence again. Pursuing a man who's treating you like dirt - even if that man is your H - will NOT help you get to that "okay place," IMO. And until you feel confident in your own skin again, you're going to have a very difficult time showing your H - through your actions - that you're a "newer, better" Sam.
I, like Tarheel, have some really serious concerns about the way your H speaks to and treats you. But I've watched my H go from acting like a disrespectful, spoiled-rotten brat to treating me with respect. But it all started with ME showing MYSELF respect first.
I know I've been all over the place here and have typed a lot about my own sitch, but hopefully it's coherent enough to follow along ... and glean something from.
I hope you have a glorious time on your solo vacation; that will give you some peace and quiet to really think about where you are, where you want to be and how you want to get there. My beach trip with my kids in April was a game-changer for me AND my M. A little distance, time and space has a tendency to help with clarity and resolve.
Hang in there!
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
I know I've been all over the place here and have typed a lot about my own sitch, but hopefully it's coherent enough to follow along ... and glean something from.
"To follow along" ?? Jeezus, it's going into my personal archives -- that is GREAT STUFF, Train! As good of an example of -- and a description of -- the "dual track" approach as I've ever seen!
Again, you'll get varying opinions about this for sure, and we can psycho-babble all day long about what came first - the chicken or the egg - when we talk about how *incredibly* disrespectful your H has been toward you. But the simple fact is: Wow. He's been incredibly disrespectful toward you. And you deserve MUCH better than that.
To ask a wife and the mother of your children: "What happened to your boobs?" And to follow that up with: "You need to do something about that"??!?
Um, no. Just no.
MLC, FOO issues, PTSD, other . . . I don't care: "Crap behavior is crap behavior."
I agree with Starkey, Train that was awesome stuff. I just got a little more hopeful in my Sitch. Thank you!!
Me 47/W 34 T 16 M 13 No kids BD 6/2013 W asked that I move out 6/2013 I moved back and W is upset with this 12/2013 separate beds not much talking Served D Complaint 5/2014 W moved out 9/27/2014
As did I (NOPkins). It's why I'm still here, Train. It's extremely rewarding when someone takes it, applies it, and just basically RUNS with it . . . not only succeeding (work in progress), but takes the time to help OTHERS do the same.
Sorry Starsky my fingers typed your name wrong above
Me 47/W 34 T 16 M 13 No kids BD 6/2013 W asked that I move out 6/2013 I moved back and W is upset with this 12/2013 separate beds not much talking Served D Complaint 5/2014 W moved out 9/27/2014
Your post was great. It really made me think. I have actually read through your entire threads before after I saw starsky recommended them to someone. Although my sitch isn't the same as yours what you have posted to Sam really made me think about ME. Especially when you talked about H asking you to send him pictures. I used to do that for H. The last year things changed and I became less interested in sex. Not really sure why. I believe I got content in what you said - he would never leave. I think he is too far gone with OW so I'm not sure I can fix that now but I just wanted to say I really appreciated what you wrote. Sam I'm sorry to hijack your thread but listen to the great advice here! Were all rooting for you
Train - Thank you so much for the inspiring post. I know there are a couple of different camps on the boards about A's. I'm in Starskys camp!
Actually many of the things I have already told my H in our very limited conversations are direct Starsky quotes.
Sorry in advance but this will be long.
I read & reread more of your (train) whole stitch last night. I know my h is being a total a$$ but in reality this is not the man I married. I saw in one of your posts that you wrote the same about your H. My H was a hard working guy - who loved me more than anything, he respected me & we had a lot of fun together. I felt like my H was a safe choice for marriage. He was crazy about me & I didn't think anything would change that. I thought at the very least he would still show up during the crazy time of having little kids & babies.
He changed with the porn stuff during/after pregnancy with Baby 2. And further changed when he went to work out of town & live like a bachelor during the week.
How fun is it to come home after going out all week to kids runny noses, throwing up & Disney Jr. on the tv. He actually said, "I feel like the kids run the house. I can't even watch Espn because they want to watch their shows before bed." And we do have more than one Tv but he didn't want to have to watch Tv somewhere other than living room.
I think I changed/lost myself after I got pregnant with Baby #3. About a year ago. Baby was a bit of a surprise but I *thought* we were both ambivalent about another baby. If it happens, it happens. H was not too happy. He was concerned he would not get to bond with Baby b/c of his work schedule.
I don't do pregnancy well. So in addition to keeping my head in the toilet most of the time until October, I gained a ton of weight, looked awful, felt awful & was struggling to take care of D5 & S3. And very hormonal - b!tch. My house became a wreck. I'm usually very neat & clean. Then baby stayed in Nicu for a month & more things went unkept at the house.
So to answer your question- The Sam he loved was fun to be around, laughed a lot, I wore cute clothes & make up, I was loving towards him, I respected myself & I was not taking any crap from anyone. I was a flight attendant at one time & I had my own life. He pursued/chased me for years. Even in one of our early break ups in our early 20's. I dated someone else, and so did he. But he was always saying & telling everyone he wanted to be with me.
After we had kids they became my life, I only wore makeup if we were going out. Then with the last pregnancy - I felt like crap & looked like crap.
He told our MC that he saw me as a mom - a good mom, but just a mom, I'm boring & have no fun anymore.
Since BD 2 months ago, I have lost 45 pounds. All the baby weight & then some. I can fit in all my cute clothes. And I wear them. No more yoga pants. I wear makeup almost every day & definitely every time I see him & my hair is fixed. This is who I am. I'm a very girly girl. I love make up & I always keep my hair foiled & flat ironed. No more ponytails. My house is organized & clean. I'm not calling to ask him how to fix this or that. I'm just doing it. I have been going out to with my girlfriends more. As much as I can without leaving too much on someone else - remember I have a 5 yo, 4 yo, & 5 month old baby. I'm at the beach this weekend. I have friends who have a condo here. So I got a room, doing some thinking & will be hanging with friends & going out tonight.
For the 4th of July we always stayed home. This year, I had the kids. I got my mom to watch the baby & I took the kids to see fireworks. We met up with friends & my D5 told him how much fun we had.
I have a close cousin who is a guy- he got divorced last year but he has a daughter the same age as mine. She has been spending time with my kids & while the kids swim. He & I just sit on the back porch & have a couple of beers. My H said to me that evening "I wish you could have done that with me."
I'm not going to make 180's to win my husband back. I'm doing the things I would be doing if he was part of my life or not. One thing I'm really working on is arguing with him or trying to persuade someone in to my way of thinking. My friends & family tell me I should have been a lawyer because I like people to see things from my point of view. But I'm realizing, it's not so important to be "right" all the time. And I know this drove H crazy.
I feel like I know who I am & I actually like myself. I don't want to change the core of my being. I just got the push to start being her again. Of course there are things that I need to work on in the marriage but I don't think that the Sam, he fell in love with is that far buried.
And I'm really struggling with maybe I should just allow him to be who he wants to be and not who I want him to be. If he wants to watch porn & go to strip clubs & run around like he's 21 - I know I need to let him. I can't fix him. But, that's not the kind of husband I want or need.
Our interactions are so limited, I only see him every 2 weeks when either he gets home & I leave. Or he picks the big kids up & they leave.
He calls every evening to talk to kids. But we don't talk about anything besides kids or house issues. He asks how baby is, what Dr appnt are that week & what the Dr said, Actually the first time he has volunteered any info about himself in 2 months was to tell me that the dry cleaners ruined his clothes last week.
I exposed his affair to him & close family members in the middle of June. I drew the boundary no communication in our family home & around the kids. I saw the texts & some were while he was out driving my kids around. I told him if it continued he would not be visiting kids every weekend. We would go to an every other weekend visitation schedule just like in a divorce.
The next week when he was back down to work - he bought a burner phone. I saw it in the bank account. I called him & just said we would need to sign a calendar to agree to a schedule. He doesn't know that I know about the phone. If you go to my previous thread around 6/23 - I Posted our text exchanges there.
I'm in the camp of drawing hard boundaries. He has had no boundaries for way too long. Which is part of the reason why we are in this situation. I stopped standing up for myself & he kept taking, taking. And he has no financial transparency.
This week my D5 told me daddy has 2 phones now, 1 for texting & 1 for taking pictures & talking on. I really feel like he's crossing my boundaries about the phone situation. But I struggle with is it controlling him? I don't think so- he probably sees his girlfriend for 2 weeks straight. Why is using his burner phone in front if my kids in the little time he does see them? Although I can't prove it's to talk to girlfriend. Then it's back to me being the same nagging, b!tch that he doesn't want for a wife.
Then considering last Sunday he said he would like to spend some time together. But didnt mention it Monday night during call to kids, so I asked. He said he wasn't ready, just thinking about it - so I said okay no problem. I don't know if I should be patient? Or try to enforce this phone boundary? I have been dim/dark since beginning of June. I haven't called him in almost 2 months, I don't initiate any texts. I simply & politely respond to his texts. Which are almost always I'm going to call at such & such time. Or how was baby's dr appnt. He's seeing the changes, in me. He has said so. But not necessarily changes with him & the emotional/physical needs that I wasn't meeting. He said he thought it was great I was going out & visiting my friends..
As I said previously, I was preparing myself to file after school starts because again it's another hard boundary. I don't feel like I'm being self righteous or resentful in doing that. Am I wrong? This has been almost 3 months since I found out. I feel by doing *nothing* that I'm condoning his actions. Am I missing something here? I'm not going to live in an open marriage. I told him this too. But, he does pay all the bills. He hasn't changed anything about his financial obligations from before BD. Is inaction the best action for me here?
And I would like to start throwing some of Starskys truth darts his way. But don't know how to effectively do that when we only talk in the phone after he talks to kids & asks about the baby?
Thanks for reading my super long post. I'm glad Starsky & Train have the faith in me to save my marriage.
Thanks in advance for any input/advice. I'm ready to hear it.
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
Freaky how I felt, while reading about 3/4 of that post, that *I*, myself, had written it. Wowzers.
I'm going to start backwards here. And likely ramble. As usual.
I was preparing myself to file after school starts because again it's another hard boundary. I don't feel like I'm being self righteous or resentful in doing that. Am I wrong? This has been almost 3 months since I found out. I feel by doing *nothing* that I'm condoning his actions. Am I missing something here? First, as Wonka told me, sometimes INaction IS an action. (That's one of my favorite sayings now! )
Filing is a personal choice. I wouldn't do it unless I wanted a D. I would definitely NOT do it to prove anything to myself OR my H. And I wouldn't do it to get a reaction. Dig reallyyyyy deep to ask yourself WHY you would consider filing for D if - in your heart of hearts - you want to save your M. Cup doesn't match the saucer there, right?
IMO, three months is not long AT ALL in the grand scheme of DBing. And it's certainly not long enough to go out and pull a D trigger. Some situations move faster than others. And in your case, you can probably expect to tack on a little more time with your H living away most of the time. Factor in the fact that you're having to prove your changes sporadically, with a lot of space in between.
I went ahead and started paperwork for a *legal separation* when my H refused to end his A. I did this for a couple of reasons:
1. H was going to do it anyway, but we had a mutual friend who was a L and offered to represent ME but also to try to work out our formal legal arrangements for BOTH H and me. (This did not work, as you know from reading my threads.) 2. Like you, I'm a SAHM, completely financially dependent on my H. Having a set-in-stone financial figure helped me not only budget for THAT period of time, but it also was going to give me a representative figure that I could use to PLAN my life in the event H and I did not reconcile. 3. Having the separation order determined and dictated child-custody and visitation. A schedule is important here. And the order could then be "the bad guy" when H complained about not having enough time with his kids.
Meanwhile, I told my H I did not want ANY of this. I did not want a D, and I did not want my children growing up in two separate homes, with two separate families. But I would not stand in his way of getting one. I only told him that in a condensed version maybe once a month, in the form of a "truth dart."
I told H that as far as the actual D (we have to wait 12 months between S and D here), he would have to file. All I needed was an order at the onset of our S to establish custody/visitation and his financial obligations. I needed that to protect my children and me. That's it. As an aside: when he found out how much $ he was going to have to pay for child support and alimony (being a SAHM gave me an advantage in that regard), he FLIPPED OUT. Looking back, I think that's when the reality of the sitch really hit home to him. He kept saying the D "would be quick and easy." That's what his L told him. Meanwhile, I told *my* L: "I want it to be painful." Sorry not sorry. As Starsky says, "There's a reason they put that little v. between the names."
Does your state "do" a formal separation agreement that precedes D? Something where your H can see, in black-and-white, how much money he's looking at having to dole out if he continues on this path of marital-destruction with OW? Something tells me he's gonna be paying a pretty penny if he continues with this OW nonsense. Again, I wouldn't even pursue a separation agreement *to get a reaction* or to make a point with him. I HAD to do it because my H had proven that he WOULD pull the financial carpet out from under us (after he did just that in 2005). And I'm sure you remember from my most current sitch that he eventually DID do that ... before the order was signed and the week I was heading to the beach. Ugh. That one STILL gets me ...
Your H sounds very unsure and uncertain about his current predicament. He keeps giving you "crumbs." I'm not sure if I'm feeling he's keeping you as Plan B ... or if he is just really confused and being really selfish but really IS wanting to see some sustained changes in you. It doesn't matter. YOUR work is the same, regardless.
And here's the thing: I called it "OW nonsense" up there. But in truth? There's "sense" in an A. As we've discussed, your H fell into the arms of another woman because YOU were not meeting his needs. I see you holding yourself accountable for that, and taking responsibility for it, so that's why you won't find me harping too much about that right now ...
But still, we have to consider H's history of behaviors now: A fishing trip? Porn and strip clubs? "Only kissing" another woman though she slept in his bed? REALLLLYYYY?!?. You're not only in a great position to hold steady in your more firm approach ... but to REALLY commit to it. This man needs to remember how to respect you! And that starts with YOU, Sam. And it sounds like you're doing one helluva job on that already.
So a firm stance, detaching with love: what does that look like to YOU?
The limited time with your H *is* going to present a challenge to DB. No doubt about it. But it's also giving you some much-needed time to get your chit together and make some much needed changes. And, you have an advantage in that you *already know* you can physically handle your household by yourself. You don't depend on your H for that. That's good. It gives you a GREAT head start as a SAHM. That being said, have you asked for more money from your H so you can better *financially* manage your household? (I'm not suggesting you do it just yet; I'm just curious if you've asked and how he responded.)
What have the Ls told you about the amount of child support/alimony you would receive? Is it less than he's providing now, considering all the bills he's paying AND the "allowance" he's providing?
Now, let's chat about the phone issue.
Okay, you've found out he has a cell phone. How, specifically, does this change/impact you and/or your situation?
A lot of times, Sam, I found myself doing things *just to show H that I wasn't stupid.* Possibly (Probably) that IS ego. And I'm the first to tell you I fight that big, green monster quite a bit. I am working on it.
Here's the other question: What "boundary" would you put in place re: the burn phone? Can you spell it out for me? What purpose would it serve? And can you enforce it? How? What would be the "consequence" to said boundary if H rejects/crosses it?
Let me provide another example from my own sitch (and my H made this burn-phone thing EASY for me): H and I, at the time, were separated. He'd already turned in ONE burn phone, while he was with me at the phone store. (That's when he chose to stay home and "end his A" for the couple weeks immediately after I discovered the affair.) When we separated, he kept the phone that he had for yearssss on our family plan, but he bought a NEW phone that he used for OW. I, therefore, can't technically call it a "burn phone" because we were separated.
I noticed, over the course of a few days, that H would take up to two hours to read and respond to my texts on his "family phone." I KNEW there was NO WAY he could be using that phone anymore, especially considering he was on it *constantly* with OW before. There was NO WAY he would be making OW wait two hours for a response!
So finally, based only on good suspicion, I sent him a text that said essentially: "Can you please provide the number to your new phone? In case of emergencies with the kids, it would be nice to know I could get in touch with you quickly."
It ticked.him.off. He thought I had "followed" him to the phone store, and he went NUTS trying to change all this passwords to everything from our joint bank account to his e-mail account, etc. (I'm really shocked he hadn't thought to do that sooner, but that A fog is CRAZY, ain't it?)
Anyway, I did that - again, shame on me - mainly to show him I'm not stupid. But also because I *really did need to know how to reach him quickly in the event of an emergency*.
Is your H responding quickly to your texts on his "normal phone"? Is he easily accessible if you need to reach him?
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Thank You so much for the reply. I appreciate you taking the time to check on me. I have had a sick kiddo this week. I have not had the time to do a lot of thinking about my stitch.
This week has been interesting. I did talk to H briefly on sunday evening. I asked what he meant by saying I could fix this. He went on to tell me that it is basically what I thought- I don't pay attention to him, I'm too focused on kids, don't show enough affection, I'm no spontaneous anymore.
He again wanted to have a physical relationship. I kind of said "that's not going to fix anything" He said "we aren't trying to fix anything, lets just have sex." Uggh. Sun night - he had 1 of our boats loaded to take with him back to town that he works in. I told him that it was half my boat. H said nope. This was done in a casual conversation. By me asking where is the boat going. You know it is half mine. This conversation was light & almost joking.
This week was interesting because since beginning of June I have been dark/dim. No real communication between us throughout the week - except about kid stuff or house stuff. I don't ask what he's doing. He doesn't ask what I'm doing. Baby had a dr appnt on Tuesday. He texted me early Tuesday morning to let him know how Dr appnt went. He called while I was loading stroller in the car. I missed the call. So I texted him back. Then he called me. We talked about the dr appnt. And somehow started talking about things with us. he said I can't believe you want half my boat - I had that kind of boat before we were married. The other boat is half yours. I said nope. I said I guess we can pay attorneys $500 an hour to figure it out. he had me on speaker in his office. Then he starts laughing. And says his secretary came to his office & closed his door. He said "she thinks we're serious. She doesn't know we are playing around."
Wednesday he calls at 11 am. And we never talk during the day. To tell me he wants me to go buy an ipad for me & kids to use. I said Okay. I was taking my older kids roller skating before we went to the mall anyway to get new school shoes. So after we skated I sent H a video of the kids(it was their first time skating.) I have not sent him any pictures or initiated any contact (unless about house issues - like the lightning strike) in the last 2 months unless he has asked for a 4th of july picture or a picture of the baby because I kind of thought of this as pursuing. I bought the ipad & sent him a text thanking him & telling him how much we appreciate it. Thursday he called again at 11 am - I missed his call. I sent a text back a little while later just saying to let me know if he needed something. He texted me back a random about how he found out something else in our house got struck by lightning a couple of weeks ago.
He talked to the kids at night and didn't ask to talk to me. I called him back few minutes later just to let him know I was taking the kids out of town this weekend and about where we might be going. I had 2 options. Told him I would let him know.
He sent a text today asking where we going & I texted him back to let him know which activity I decided to do. He called this evening - big kids were eating dinner & I was taking care of baby. So I answered & told him what we were doing & I would have them call him back. My D5 called him after dinner & he talked to S4 also. He did not ask to speak to me.
So kinda interesting that he has called me this week. I feel like we are becoming friendlier. After 2 months of hardly any talking. But, I don't know if I should continue to stay dim or be friendly & occasionally send text pictures of kids. I don't want to pursue him. I also don't know status of OW situation. Thoughts?
I am still DBing my behind off. Like taking 3 little kids away this weekend. My mom is going with me to help - Thank goodness. I am trying to be the person a fool would leave. But this dual track thing is very hard.
I was reading a post of pilot's this week and I kind of felt like I could understand how a LBS can become a WAS. My marriage sucked for the last year to year & a half. I'm changing but he's not. Not sure he even thinks he needs to. I can become a person would be a fool to leave but I'm not sure were that leaves him & our marriage. Or if I even want him again. I guess I'm angry again about how this has happened. And if I want to keep standing for a marriage & family that he could so easily walk from. When I look at the big picture - it stinks. I don't know if I want a H like he is. Even without the OW nonsense. The strip clubs. The money I now see that he's spending. I'm not an equal partner to him & don't know if I ever would be.
To answer your questions - I have heard it around - Inaction IS an action. But please explain to me how? Because I feel like it's turning my head & ignoring the stitch.
My state does not have a legal separation & there is no waiting period to get a divorce.
I would get more between alimony & child support than what he gives me in the "allowance" check. But, he is paying all the bills. I haven't crunched the numbers exactly. (By the way when I mentioned something about alimony he again said nope. You can get a job just like everybody else.)He rally has no clue this D will be for him. And yes, he will be paying a very big chunk of change to me monthly. The L estimated between CS & alimony about $9k monthly he would be paying. But, like this weekend I'm putting on his amex. The ipad went on his amex. So, I really have no need to ask him for additional money. We (me & kids)aren't doing without anything per say - but h is living the high life and we are not.
I too find myself wanting to tell him things just to let him know I'm not stupid. But Okay, it's ego. And I will try to keep it put aside.
The boundary about the burner phone is that I asked/told him to not text or communicate with OW in front of my children. And he probably most likely is because my D5 told me that he has another phone he uses for texting & one that he talks on and takes pictures with.
I did not bring up the burner phone. Yet anyway. He does seem to answer his regular phone promptly & return texts. This is recent. As in the beginning he would ignore calls & texts from the kids if he was out or doing something fun. And I knew this to happen on several occasions because I had access to his calendar. When he was on vaca with OW - we didn't hear from him for 2 days. Out to dinner with OW-he would ignore their calls. Now we at least have a pattern that he calls around when he gets off work. So we don't interrupt his going out in the evening. lol.
Thoughts. Suggestions. 2x4's??
Okay - I think that's it. I have been reading while feeding baby at night. But it's hard to write a ton from my phone. My goal is to post frequently.
I really appreciate the support and advice from everyone here.
Thanks!
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
You and I are kind of in similar situations. We both have spouses who have engaged in an A, and both were dark/dim (minus kid stuff) for a couple of months, and we both now find ourselves where our spouses seem to be more engaged with us. Also, we both really have no idea as to the status of OP. Last but not least, we both really do not know how to react to the overtures from our spouses. Do we continue dark/dim, do we reciprocate, is there a happy middle ground? I am going to follow people's replies to you and see if it might apply to my situation.
I really have nothing else to offer as we are pretty much at the same point, and I am really just guessing as to what I should be doing. It is like it feels like my W is opening a door, but I am not sure if it is wide enough to walk through or if she is just peeking out to see where I am.
Best of luck to you...I will keep reading!
Last edited by pilot; 08/02/1405:54 AM.
Me: 42 W: 32 Married 7 years together 8.5 S1: 7 S2:7 Bomb #1: 09-16-13 Recon #1: 11/13 A discovered 04-03-2014 W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me I filed D 12-02-2014 S 05-31-14 Divorced 5-19-16
I'm tired and probably shouldn't be posting, so forgive me if this isn't useful. Let me just say I hate what your H is doing but think I get his point of view. Let me say that I hold myself accountable for the majority of the breakdown (see my thread), just that I get how it played out so poorly so naturally.
I was in a similar spot in my M. My W was a SAHM and her life revolved around the kids. 11 years together, 3 children, that means she was pregnant and nursing much of the time. Then with the 3rd child she was always busy.
My biggest gripe was that she cared more about the kids than about me. I see many sources say the M should come BEFORE the kids. Maybe that's not valid, but either way it sure wasn't that way in my home. Letting herself go, not being attractive, not being interesting or interested, and not having time for me. It made me angry because when it was something the KIDS needed she did it because "I'm there mom and they depend on only me" but when it was something I needed somehow I was an adult and should be able to understand that "this is how life with kids is".
I was really angry about the lack of sex and the lack of effort on her part. I had to beg or manipulate for sex, and then it was fairly boring. I told her this was like my #1 most important priority and yet if I didn't say anything I would go without for weeks or months. I didn't feel it was fair and couldn't handle the amount of hurt and neglect.
So I did use porn. That made it worse, driving a wedge further between my fantasy and reality. I did spend more time on my own, until we basically lived separate lives. She in turn focused on being a good mom, which in turn meant I didn't get involved as a dad and was rarely around. This cycle just got worse and worse.
What I see in your H is that he still loves you. He's paying all the bills, that isn't so he can cake eat, it's because he loves you and that is his way of showing it. Maybe that's taken for granted, but in his mind he's trying to be noble and show he cares vs. manipulative games with $. I hate the A but again, I almost feel like he's saying "This is what I need more of, I can't live without it, I wish you could give it to me but you don't seem willing". So when he's asking for sex, etc, I think he's just looking for signs that if he recommits to the M and gives up what he has now (what he feels he NEEDS) that you'd be more committed to meeting those needs than when he felt he couldn't take it any more.
He would need to know you UNDERSTAND how important this really is to him (enough to leave), and that you care enough for him to change a LOT for this to work. That means things like being more physically intimate, but also making him more of a priority overall (so he's not getting the leftovers after the kids but the actual meal). I could go on about what he might want but that's a start.
So if you have the attitude that he's wrong about his needs simply because he's handling himself poorly, that could be tough. I agree with firm boundaries (no OW activity in your house, no intimacy unless he cuts off relationship and recommits to M, etc). But if that's ALL you do that's not enough. Saying "you have to choose" is no good if you don't give him a reason to choose you. And being stronger on your own and ready to move on is better than pursuing, but doesn't make him feel safer. In fact, it might make him feel more vulnerable and hurt that you'd rather move on than make the changes he's REALLY hoping you'd make.
And the talk about not knowing if you'd take him back. Look, I don't pretend to know how tough it is, but if you can't validate and meet his needs then you probably shouldn't. But if you can then I don't think you have to condemn him based on his behavior during a period he was beyond his ability to cope.
I'd give some thought to how much you could grow in those areas. Then- what have you done to show him those changes? I know GAL/Detaching/180s are generally about YOU, but if the problem is that he's concerned you don't care about him enough to meet his needs better then I think you have to grow and demonstrate the growth in those areas to get you back.
Again, in my sitch if my W had done that I would've been all in. Seriously, if she had one time said "I love you and you are my #1 priority. I understand how important our sex life is to you so want to make extreme efforts to become more exciting and passionate there. In fact, I've read up on a few things I'd like to try, can you join me?" I would've done anything. If she had said, "Now I have some needs that are just as important to me as sex is to you, can we discuss?" OF COURSE I WOULD! I'D BE IN HEAVEN AND WANT TO DO ANYTHING TO RECIPROCATE AND SHOW MY LOVE AND APPRECIATION! She never did that. Of course, I misplayed my sitch as your husband has and she DID become the WAS. So now I'm trying to grow but still in a spot where I'm not sure I'D reconcile without seeing changes like that.
Cliffnotes- Your husband has told you he needs to be more of a priority in your life and feels that when you spend 1:1 time with him, and his extremely extremely extremely important needs of understanding/satisfying him sexually. Would you be willing to grow in that area? If so, have you done anything to demonstrate that?
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Guys- Thanks for stopping by. Pilot- I see some similarities in our stitches. So I'm also interested to see how yours progresses.
Zeus- I really appreciate your perspective. I remember reading your story when you first posted. Here's the thing- from my point of view: we weren't in a sex starved marriage. He did complain that he always had to initiate. But in my defense, I have 3 kids 5 & under. My H works out of town all week. We always had sex at least once on the 3 nights he is home, usually twice. Now, I will admit things changed some towards the end of my pregnancy with baby 3. And then there is a 6 week wait after having the baby. Plus, I had a critically, unexpected sick baby. I'm not trying to minimize his physical needs. But I guess I just don't understand how sex needs to be above taking care of our children & getting stuff done while I was at the hospital with a sick baby. He started his unhappy talk when baby was 10 weeks old. Pretty poor timing in my eyes. Before kids and even during this last pregnancy. We always had an active sex life. Before he worked out of town - it was still at least 3x per week. Remember this is also the man that told me 3 weeks ago- "what happened to your boobs? You're going to have to get those fixed."
How can I be married to someone so shallow?
And since this has happened, I started putting things together & I hear about other strip club stories, I'm seeing them when I looked back on credit card statements. It just makes me feel like I've been so deceived. I think this has gone on periodically throughout our whole marriage. And because I don't really like the thoughts of my husband hanging in strip clubs for no reason - I guess he lied to me .
I'm admitting & acknowledging to my part in the breakdown of the marriage. And the other problems that we had. I know that he had emotional needs & I physical needs that I wasn't meeting. I don't have a problem reaching further out to him about the sexual relationship. And I think what you said that you wished your wife had said to you. I can do that. I can change that. That's not a problem for me. It's hard to demonstrate or even have that talk b/c I don't know status of Ow.
I do have a problem if he wants to continue to frequent strip clubs. I don't know if I can stay married to that person.
This whole experience has changed me. I will be a better person because of this. I will be a better wife. Either to him or someone else.
I wish life lessons weren't so hard.
I am also beginning to feel that he views me as an object.
I appreciate that he continues to provide financially & I'm also thanking him & telling him how much I appreciate it. 180 for me. I always just expected him to provide & did not express gratitude. So I have been telling him Thanks frequently.
My thoughts today are that Love is patient & Love is kind. I don't know how I could be more patient or kind in this situation.
I want to work on my marriage. But I will not live in an open marriage, while someone is having an ongoing affair. I feel like need more boundaries.
The fact that our communication is so limited actually has really helped step back, detach & concentrate on me.
I'm not even sure the physical relationship is the biggest problem in our situation.
I'm just confused.
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
Thanks for reading my thread and post. I don't know for sure what your H's biggest issues were, but based on what he's told you and is doing with his time it seems like it was sex/attention/excitement. This is so standard I'm mad they don't teach it in school. It played a big part in my R's breakdown.
Be careful not to dismiss his feelings. When you say "I was at the hospital with a sick baby" you are absolutely right- logically. But emotionally he was probably feeling not only hurt, rejected, and frustrated (which are a BIG deal). But also misunderstood that you didn't validate those feelings. Unimportant because he came last after everything else. And scared that he would continue to feel that way for years.
What I wish my wife had understood is how to validate my feelings about this. If she understood how big of a priority it was to me then even when she truly couldn't make that possible (which I hope was a true exception not a habit), instead of rolling her eyes and saying "how could you expect sex right now" (dismissive), instead came to me and said something like":
"Honey, I'm so sorry. I love you and I know how much you need me, and I'd like nothing more than to make that possible. Right now I just can't because of the situation. I want you to know that I understand how you feel and you're my man so that matters to me. Trust me, one of the reasons I'm trying to get this handled so quickly is because I want to be close with you again. And if you can be patient I'll make sure to make it up to you (WINK)". And then if she backed it up with a great evening some other time...well, I don't think I would've had ANY problem without sex for a few weeks here and there.
Needless to say she not only rolled her eyes at me, but as I grew resentful then condemned me for the way I 'acted out' and used that as further proof that I had problems, not her.
Now, she was absolutely right about the fact that I behaved TERRIBLY. I have no excuse. And I also know I caused her tremendous pain with my actions as your H is causing you.
As for the comment "why would I want to be with someone so shallow". First, rejecting a man for being open about his sexuality seems equally shallow. But more importantly, take that as a BILLBOARD as to what he wants. He loves you and wants you to understand him, validate him, and make him and his needs more of a priority.
Clearly if he doesn't change to an extent you can't make it work, no one is questioning that. But the DB method is about changing yourself to see if it will lead to a healthier M. AND you aren't a genie. So you can't give him everything he wants and needs. But if you understand/validate his needs, change to the extent that's possible, and explain reality to him in a more affirming way as I did above...well, I'd say that's a woman only a fool would leave.
How do you demonstrate this growth while maintaining boundaries, avoiding pursuing behavior, and detaching/GAL? No clue. DB coach or vets?
HINT- may be a good idea to reread my post, it is probably parallel. And I was in the same spot...I couldn't tell my wife I quit porn as that is pursuing and crosses our current boundaries, but how else could I demonstrate that important change? One that might keep us apart if I don't tell her? DB coach told me that I could do it by doing 180's on all the things porn represents. In particular, treat my W and daughters with respect, validate their opinions, compliment them on things other than their looks, etc. She said the change would come through. Wonder what the parallel is there?
Take care Sam!
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
As for the comment "why would I want to be with someone so shallow". First, rejecting a man for being open about his sexuality seems equally shallow. But more importantly, take that as a BILLBOARD as to what he wants. He loves you and wants you to understand him, validate him, and make him and his needs more
Zeus- Again, I appreciate your feedback. What I saying above about being shallow was specifically in reference to his comment that "I needed to get my boobs fixed." That was hurtful. Especially because the last time he had seen me, I was still breastfeeding. Now that I have stopped, they have gone back down.
I understand the physical relationship is something he needs & wants. Just not sure how to even address those concerns at this point.
Thanks!
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
Just read your sitch .... new here so I will not offer anything other than this .. I think you are doing very well all things considered, this forum is so uplifting and gives us all hope, just by reading your thread,I have learned so much. I admire your stance and need to borrow some for my own sitch.
Not much to update this week. Kids & I had a great time on out vacation. Did not talk to H much this week. A couple of the days he asked about the baby & some house stuff.
He came home this morning & we took our D5 to her open house for school. She is starting a new school. Pretty uneventful. I have a great PMA. I got dressed up nicely. Fixed hair & makeup. And wore some wedge heels. We saw a few neighbors and they all commented on how great I look. And what my secret was. I just said baby & stress. So that was nice to hear.
I'm planning on going back to the beach tomorrow morning & staying the night. My birthday is Monday. So a few of my girlfriends are going with me & we are going to hang at the beach, go to dinner, & then maybe a few local beach bars. It should be great.
H asked what my plans were. I told him I was staying with the baby tonight. So he could take big kids to dinner. He said "why I don't I take everyone to dinner since it's your birthday on Monday. Even though you didnt do anything for my birthday." Then he was interrupted by S4.
I didn't get a chance to validate in the moment. Because they walked outside to look at something. I didn't know if I should bring his statement up again just to validate or let it go?
Should I agree to a dinner with the kids? Our interactions are so limited. I'm thinking this might be a great opportunity to show my DB skills. But don't know status of OW. And I'm not interested in being best friends forever with someone who put no effort in to our marriage. We still have had no real talks about what the problems were. Although I am being friendly & upbeat. I drew some boundaries about 7 weeks ago in regards to OW.
Anyone have thoughts on the dinner out with kids offer?
Train? Are you out there?
Last edited by Sam3; 08/08/1406:42 PM.
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
I think the dinner date - since it's with the kids and for your birthday - would be perfectly fine! I think you have your detaching and expectations in check and don't look at this as anything more than an opportunity to show the new Sam.
Sounds like you're doing an INCREDIBLE job, Sam!
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Well H came here Friday morning. We took our D5 to her open house for school. He asked what my plans were for the weekend. I told him I would be at our home Fri night taking care of baby and would leave Saturday morning to go to the beach. Coming home Sunday.
I told him that he could take our older kids out to dinner Fri night. he aid "why don't I take everyone to dinner since it's your birthday on Monday." I agreed to go to dinner with the kids. Had a nice dinner & I kept things light. Acted "as if".
I asked him on Saturday morning if he was ready to talk sometime soon, possibly Monday after we took D5 to her first day of school, about the marriage issues to see what we were dealing with. He said "I freaked him out, when he asked a few weeks ago, and I called him back the next day to say yes, that I would like to talk." He said he is still not ready to talk.
His aunt told me yesterday that she spoke to him on Saturday & he told her he would like to work things out but wants it come back together naturally.
I left on Saturday night and went to the beach to stay the night with some girlfriends. We had dinner & dancing & a great time. Came home Sunday afternoon to get D5 ready for her first day of school.
We took D5 together to drop her off on her first day of school. We came home & he left to drive to his work. He did tell me "Happy Birthday" and gave me a side hug.
Yesterday afternoon, I found out that my step grandfather is in the hospital & not expected to live. I did send H a text telling him to call me back so I could explain details. He called me back and I explained what was happened and the diagnosis.
Last night, I decided to do some snooping. As mentioned in my previous post - I have a feeling that there has been some level of deceit throughout the marriage. I went on to the google account & was able to see google searches that were done from his cell phone. From September 2010 - November 2013.
Over this time, I see that he searches for porn DAILY. He also searched for several other websites which are a bit more concerning - Plenty of fish dating website, searches for where ladies nights are for that particular day of the week he searched - ex. wed night ladies night in (city where he works), a website called f**k buddies, and also google searches from 9/2012 - 9/2013 for one of the women that he has been hanging out with since BD (but not the main OW that I saw text evidence of). In the searches I can see he googles her name then looked at her facebook or several other things that come up when searching her name.
I'm hurt. But, it is helping me to put a picture together of things I had no idea were happening. Especially because he is "not ready to talk" about our problems.
If he has been cheating for the past 2 years or longer I believe this is a dealbreaker for me. I feel like a fool that I had no idea there were any problems this far back.
We were not in a sex starved marriage - we ML 2 of the 3 days that he was home on the weekends. ALWAYS. Except the last month or so of my pregnancy with baby #3.
I'm not sure how I & our marriage can overcome the issues that he has with possibly being a serial cheater & a possible sex addiction. Is that what it's called when someone looks at porn daily & frequents strip clubs?
He does not want to talk about the issues. What are some good options I have at this point? I reread DR this morning about internet addictions & giving the ultimatum. Is that appropriate here when someone does not even want to talk about marital issues yet?
Should I send an email confronting with the past? He said when we talk he does not want to discuss the last 3 months only the issues that led us there.
I need to make some additional boundaries. But, I don't really know what other steps I can take. He only comes to see kids every other weekend. He does stay at our house & I usually leave. Maybe I should ask him not to come here anymore?
I also think I need to go completely dark with him. He is definitely going to wonder whats going on because I have been being lovingly detached, neighborly, and pleasant.
How to go dark with small kids? And a baby with medical issues? It may not be possible.
Would an explanation of why I only want to speak to him via text be necessary?
Any help or advice is appreciated.
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
It's been awhile since I posted to you, and I've done what I could to catch up (you have some looooong posters -- including YOU! -- on your thread! ).
No, I don't think you can really issue ultimatums when he's not yet (by any means) asking you "What will it take for you to take me back?" It's just not the time.
BOUNDARIES, yes, but listing your DEALBREAKERS, no.
I would not confront him about the porn or the internet searches. I would -- as the Good Book says -- "hide it away in your heart" and use it for future reference, if needed.
I don't necessarily see the porn searches as an issue per se, if you two had a frequent and healthy sex life during that time. I also know that men and women often look at this issue very differently. But looking up local ladies nights?? Different issue -- and obviously a problem.
I can only tell you what I'd do if it were ME. IF serial infidelity would be a dealbreaker for me (and it would be), I would do whatever I needed to do to find out the truth about what my spouse had been doing the past few years. DBing is mostly a "no snooping" stance, but MWD herself advises to use a keylogger on a spouse's computer if you need to find out if there is a sexual addition or online EA going on. I would find out, once and for all, and then plan from there.
I'll try to catch back up as I have time.
Hang in there; you're getting some great advice from Train and the others.
I think the first question - armed with the information you now have - is if you feel your H and your M are worth fighting for.
Only you can decide that.
What are your non-negotiable, core beliefs? What can you deal with in a M? What CAN'T you deal with?
Sit with this new information for a day or two. Post here. I don't think I would send an e-mail, and I most certainly wouldn't let H know what all you know.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Thanks for stopping by Starsky & Train. Okay so for now I will file away my intel about the Internet searches.
Originally Posted By: Train
I think the first question - armed with the information you now have - is if you feel your H and your M are worth fighting for.
Only you can decide that.
What are your non-negotiable, core beliefs? What can you deal with in a M? What CAN'T you deal with?
Sit with this new information for a day or two. Post here. I don't think I would send an e-mail, and I most certainly wouldn't let H know what all you know.
Thanks Train. I will sit on this. My initially reaction was "omg... He definitely has issues." My core beliefs are that these things may not be deal breakers if presented individually but the combination of all of it together - it seems like it may be more difficult for me to overcome. Especially because he has said he will not quit his job - he wants to be there at least 2 more years.
I want to save my marriage. But I feel like this is another example of how my H had no boundaries previously and walked all over me. I feel like he knows I'm kinda stuck.
I feel very deceived. If this has been going on for 2 years or more than maybe he wasn't "rewriting our history" during bd when he said he has not been happy for years.
Right now, I live a comfortable life. My H is still taking care of things financially. (I check weekly. He does not know I check.) I live in our dream home that we built 2 years ago, I have money to do things. I stay at home with our 3 kids. I could easily just keep sitting while he does whatever he wants. OW, going to ladies nights, spending large amounts of money. But my "core beliefs" feel like this is wrong. For me to sit comfortably to see if & when he decides to be my husband again. (And I am GAL) I feel like doing nothing is turning my head to his behavior because he is still taking care of things financially.
I struggle with the quote "inaction is an action." Can anyone explain this a little more to me? Sorry if I just don't get it.
Thanks again!
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
I struggle with the quote "inaction is an action." Can anyone explain this a little more to me? Sorry if I just don't get it.
This analogy was provided at my church about a month ago and I thought it was very accurate...
You see someone being mugged on the street. You basically have 3 options: 1. You intervene by running over and physically stopping it. 2. You call the police, but keep your distance, possibly even continuing on your way feeling you did the 'right' thing.
and 'inaction is an action'...
3. You turn your head and keep walking. You've effectively chosen to not get involved- that is your action.
Before I was aware of this analogy, I wrote an email to my W's couple friends who I found out had gone to a bar with W to meet up with OM and others. These 2 friends were like sisters to me, so I was disappointed in their 'inaction.' I wish I would have used this analogy because they failed to grasp the concept and used the excuse 'it's not our position to judge even though we may disagree with W's actions.' They basically saw the crime and kept walking....
On Sunday morning I found out that H had stayed at OW apt. I texted him & said - "I know where you are. What you are doing is extremely disrespectful to me, our marriage & our family. I know where we stand."
Because I did not know of current status of OW he told me he ended things in June originally. This was my intel that it was still happening.
He called, I didn't answer. He texted with a picture of his place where he stays when out of town. But I knew he had just gotten back. I just said "stop, there is nothing to say."
By that evening - my D5 wanted to call him. After he talked to kids he asked them to put me on the phone.
I told him as I had said before I was not going to live in an open marriage & I would be filing for a divorce this week. At some point we needed to discuss temporary arrangements. I was done. If you read my previous posts - I was really struggling with the information I had, what kind of person he is & if I was becoming a WAS.
He said that he thought we would work things out. He cried a lot - said he hates his life, doesn't know what else to say. Told me he was emailing me.
Sun night he sent me this text -
H: Sam, I want to be with you and only you. The question is where do I start? The issues I have with this life of working out of town is making me confused. I don't even know who I am, I feel like I do not have a home, no marriage, no ties to anything. This was all supposed to be temporary. Now I feel like I can't do this anymore. I feel like I need to keep running from you when really I need you.
We do have issues, when were we going to work on them? The talks we have turn into arguments and then I go off to work. The reasons I left our marriage are valid. How do we fix those issues when we are far apart? How do we get a fresh start? I'm ready to work on the marriage if you promise that you are in love with me. Show me love, carry me through these horrible times that I'm away from home.
I can promise to you that I have no ties with anybody. Still to this day I can say I'm not with anybody. I will quit communications and anything else that is a perception. There is nothing else better out there, I know that. I'm just scared that we are going to fall back into this relationship struggle.
I have thought about quitting my job to go home. So I quit and our marriage does not get better. I can't live with that question. Trust me, I try all the time to work out ways to come home permanently. This is why I needed space to take all this in. I didn't want to hurt you. I'm not happy with anything.
You are the love of my life. You are the mother of our 3 children. I miss that. How can I enjoy that when I live away? How can I feel content with my family when I live out of a suitcase and a truck. This was not the life I wanted. I'm coming home one day if it's not too late. I need support. "
Me:
I really appreciate you being so open & honest with me.
I understand that you are confused.
I know that your life is hard.
I'm sorry that you didn't feel loved. I never stopped loving you & I know I didn't express myself well enough.
I'm sorry that you feel like our talks turned in to arguments. I don't want to argue with you anymore.
I can listen to what you have to say.
I don't know where we go from here - guess we need to talk about that & not text.
(I basically copied from the validation cheat sheet & just tried to stfu for the time)
He took the day off work Monday & drove back because we had a family funeral to attend. We talked a little last night.
I asked why he stayed at her apt. He said he was too drunk to drive home sat night. ( His drinking is a HUGE problem)
I know that these are all words & actions speak louder.
My thoughts/questions- I feel like he is having a knee-jerk reaction to me finally saying I was done.
He has hurt me so badly. And he again said he wanted to talk about what led us there not what has happened in the past 3 months.
I also now have questions about his character from what Intel I do have. Was I in that much if a fantasy that I had no idea he was up to stuff possibly throughout the marriage?
How can I trust that what he says is sincere? And he's not baiting me to keep me around as plan b?"
I don't even know where to go from here.
Do I suggest a no contact letter & transparency?
If he can't provide I will know that it can't work out for us?
He says this OW is just a friend. I don't believe it for one minute. The PA/EA is not the deal breaker. Deception throughout my marriage might be.
He is not saying "will do whatever it takes." Do all spouses have to say those words? Or is what he's saying above as close as I'm going to get from him?
Anyone care to chime in with how to proceed from here?
Thanks for any advice, thoughts, suggestions!
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
You did right and have the right attitude. All WAS's do what your H just did after they're caught with their hand in the cookie jar. Then once the LBS takes them back, they go right back to their old ways.
Tell him that it's up to him to put up or shut up. Tell him to start planning on how things are going to proceed towards reconciliation in one week and a specific timeline because you are done.
Then don't contact him.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Hey, Sam. I feel like a boob bc I didn't respond a while back even though I promised. Forgive me?
But now that's a moot point.
I agree with Bond; you're handling this the right way. You did great.
Your H, in a nutshell, IS saying, "what will it take?", yes.
And I think it's a perfect time to put the ball in his court and tell him to put up or shut up, as Bond says, and you can absolutely throw out a couple of reasonable specifics: mainly, a NC letter, approved by YOU ... and YOU send it ... and a full transparency plan. In that plan, all detailed cell billing - for ALL phones - would be sent to you. You would be provided usernames/passwords for all accounts, including phones and e-mail. If H moving back home and finding a job nearby is what you would need to start feeling safe again, then by all means tell him that, too. MC, I'd think in your case, would be very important ... but only IF H recommits to the M; otherwise, you are wasting money and time.
And then leave it in his court. And THAT is precisely when inaction is an action. (Making sense now? ) You can give him a timeline, as Bond suggests, so that you're not just waiting indefinitely for him to respond.
Whatever you do, don't tell him everything you know ... or how you're getting your information. Starsky often encourages folks to find one source of intel that a WAS doesn't know you have ... that way you can "trust ... but verify."
You did really good in your conversation, Sam. Really, really good. Slow and steady now, soldier.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Tell him that it's up to him to put up or shut up. Tell him to start planning on how things are going to proceed towards reconciliation in one week and a specific timeline because you are done.
Then don't contact him.
MrBond-Meaning how is he going to show me thru his actions that these aren't just words. Do I suggest what I need to move forward? I know earlier in my stitch you told me it seemed I was focusing on the A. So, I made a huge effort to focus on what role I played in our problems. I feel like I can now address the things he needs and work in ways to provide. But, in telling him what I need, is this back to focusing on the A?
Don't mean to sound stupid but I'm really struggling with coming out of LRT and being dark to having normal conversations with him. For the past 2 days he has texted throughout the day just little things about a meeting or how his day was going. He also texted that he is thinking of quitting his job soon. For me to let him know if I hear of anything. (Is that putting responsibility on me?) Also, texted me that he had concert tickets & hotel rooms booked for a concert next month. He wants me to go & if any of my couple friends wanted to go with us. It's feels weird to go back to having frequent communication with him.
Thank you Train for your insight. I went back and reread your thread when things changed in your stitch. It's helpful to see that things can change quick.
I'm concerned that he is just saying whatever he needs to, to string me along. Although, considering how he has acted the past 3 months - not sure he would care at this point.
Why if he was called out again on OW & I told him I was done does he then decide to tell me he wants to work on the marriage? How can he switch his feelings on & off. Like before BD I had no idea anything was wrong. Then Boom. Now, he decides he wants to work on things. I don't understand.
He still says he feels like we were separated. I don't know how that gives him a free pass to do whatever he pleases. He wants to work on marriage issues that led us to separation not what happened during separation.
I know there aren't guarantees this won't happen again. I don't even know the steps to take to begin working on things. I haven't presented the No contact letter & transparency plan. I want to do that in person when he is at our home this weekend.
He told me that he wants to work on our marriage. Will he still want to work on it after transparency plan is presented? Who knows.
How do you know if you are reconciling and what does that look like in terms of going slow & not ending up right where we left off?
I feel like I don't even know him anymore. I did DB for myself and now I don't want what we had. If the other person doesn't accept responsibility for poor choices during a separation how do I heal?
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
"Meaning how is he going to show me thru his actions that these aren't just words."
I believe I detailed it very clearly.
"Tell him that it's up to him to put up or shut up. Tell him to start planning on how things are going to proceed towards reconciliation in one week and a specific timeline because you are done."
This is his action.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
But, in telling him what I need, is this back to focusing on the A No. By telling H what you need, you're actually focusing on YOU. We should *all* learn to ask for what we need, especially from our spouses. This is a lesson that has taken me a while to learn. (I'm still learning!)
I'm really struggling with coming out of LRT and being dark to having normal conversations with him Go with the flow, Sam. Let H initiate contact. You can keep things cool, calm and collected. Be polite and friendly. Don't take no sh!t though. And don't forget to GAL as you can. Be mysterious. Nothing much changes right now, IMO.
He also texted that he is thinking of quitting his job soon. For me to let him know if I hear of anything. (Is that putting responsibility on me?) I don't think it's putting responsibility on you, no. I think he's just asking you to pass along potential jobs you hear of near you and the kids. I think this is a positive thing, based on your need to have H close to you if you guys are to reconcile your M. OTOH, I don't think you should go overboard by outwardly seeking a job for him. I'd be hesitant to do much at all for H until he agrees to a NC letter and a full transparency plan. (Let us know how that talk goes this weekend, okay?)
Why if he was called out again on OW & I told him I was done does he then decide to tell me he wants to work on the marriage? This happens more than you think. When the WAS really FEELS you've detached and you're "done," it seems to rattle them into reality a little. Their gig is officially up.
How can he switch his feelings on & off. Like before BD I had no idea anything was wrong. Then Boom. Now, he decides he wants to work on things. I don't understand. I don't mean to chuckle at this question, but it's something I've asked H a hundred times since he's been back. It probably varies, depending on personalities and circumstances. But remember, Sam, that As are highly intoxicating. In fact, they are full-blown addictions. I've seen Starsky write this several times, and he talks about it far better than I can; he posted it again on shodan's thread in Infidelity just today; maybe this will help you make sense of how H's feelings can turn off and on seemingly so suddenly:
Quote:
The problem with all of that is, there's a physiological component to this that is very real, Sho. If she's still in contact with OM (even if it's some sort of "let's step back and cool things off, I need to try to work on my marriage as I have too much invested here" period), her brain is going to be awash in endorphines (PEAs) that will actually chemically BLOCK her from changing her feelings towards you!
Chemically, you won't stand a chance.
THAT is why I'm such a nazi about no-contact and transparency. Affairs are HIGHLY addictive; it's what made an otherwise sane, intelligent adult female NASA astronaut drive across country wearing an adult diaper, so she wouldn't have to stop and take bathroom breaks, as she drove to Florida to avenge her man and confront the other woman!
It's what makes highly successful men and women throw their careers -- and even their families -- away, when it otherwise makes NO sense whatsoever.
It's what causes previously responsible spouses to drain family savings accounts, and run up tens of thousands of credit card debt on their affairs.
It's REAL.
Sam, if you give a drink to an alcoholic, they'll feel and act a whole lot differently than they feel and act when they're sober. Does that make sense?
He still says he feels like we were separated. I don't know how that gives him a free pass to do whatever he pleases. It doesn't. If you guys were not legally S, then you were still legally M. Period. So that's bullsh!t, and my H used the same bullsh!t line.
He wants to work on marriage issues that led us to separation not what happened during separation. I think that's wise of your H, actually.
He told me that he wants to work on our marriage. Will he still want to work on it after transparency plan is presented? Who knows. If he doesn't? Then he still obviously has something to hide, and I'd say you're a lot better off moving on with your life without him.
How do you know if you are reconciling and what does that look like in terms of going slow & not ending up right where we left off? It looks like A LOT of hard work. It looks like your H taking the bull by the horns and doing whatever it takes to rebuild your trust. It looks like YOU taking a leap of faith and deciding that you'll give it another shot and won't hold over his head what he has done to you and your children. It takes both of you committing to wake up every day and do something loving toward one another. It looks like you both deciding that you will deliberately meet each others' needs ... and even though it may feel awkward at first, you'll do it every day until it feels natural. The VERY FIRST STEP, though, is that your H needs to pen a NC letter ... and agree to a full transparency plan. Then, you will need to tell him what YOU need. Is porn a problem for you? If yes, tell him. Certainly him looking for "ladies' nights" is a problem for you, right? Tell him. Do you need his job closer to home? Tell him.
What are your non-negotiables, Sam? Figure that out before you tell him what you need. Then tell him what you need.
I did DB for myself and now I don't want what we had. NONE of us want what we had before BD. H and I talked about that just last night: it's ridiculous what we let our M become. H wasn't meeting my needs of affection and intimate conversation; we spent no quality time together because he was working all the time and spending any free time sleeping or with the kids. Meanwhile, I had no desire to have sex with him, even though that's one of HIS top needs. We're learning now how to balance it. Just this week, I told H that we hadn't been on one of our "adventurous" dates in at least a month. He started in with, "Well, we really don't have the money ..." Then, he caught himself and said, "Ok. We have a date Thursday. Mark it down." The next day, he texted me: "Go buy an outfit. Dress to impress. I'm picking you up at 6." And we had an AMAZING time. He gave me what I needed. And I was more than happy to meet HIS needs once we were home.
See how that works?
If the other person doesn't accept responsibility for poor choices during a separation how do I heal? You WILL heal, with or without him.
What a LBS needs, after an A, varies. Some need to hear "I'm sorry" over and over. Some (like me) don't. Some need to see intense remorse. Some (like me) don't.
What would YOU need to see from your H, Sam?
Again, all of this, IMO, is just me answering some of the concerns/questions you posed. But I think you should sit tight until your H shows he is ready to fully re-commit to your M and do whatever it takes to start earning your trust back. It's up to YOU to decide what he needs to do to start that long journey.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Woo Hoo, Glad the board is back up. I was wondering how everyone is doing the past few days.
Thank You Train for your time!
Eventful weekend. We did have a talk on Friday night. I got some answers to his feelings. He felt ignored, unloved, lack of me initiating sex. I was a b!tch to live with, Baby #3 topic was discussed - he said he felt like he lost trust in me - because it wasn't discussed more. (for the record - Baby #3, was not a plan on my part either) I was not on BC. He knew it, I knew it & I thought we were both taking the "if its meant to happen, it will happen approach)
I didn't present a total transparency plan at this point because I have some good intel to find out on my own if he's being truthful- if he indeed cut ties to OW.
I told him I would like him to send her a text message in front of me. He told me he would do that but that wasn't necessary because he already called her on Tuesday of last week (convenient, huh?) to "clarify" with her that they weren't anything and that he was going to work on his marriage. He said he would "send her a text - but that it would look a little weird - to send her a text again to say "I'm not talking to you anymore" after he already had a conversation with her. And that would be putting emphasis on something with her when there was nothing there anyway." Thoughts on this?
He initially lied to me Sunday morning 8/17 when I texted him about where he was that Sat night/Sun morning until he knew that I knew. He denied the burner phone, then said "well yes I have it but it's not working because I haven't put any money on it again."
I think I'm getting "trickle truths" he's only telling me once he knows that I know. And he keeps saying "why does it matter, we were separated. This stuff was not going on before I told you we were over." Which he said BD was on 5/11/2014 - Mothers Day not on the date in my signature.
He does not volunteer information. Answers questions when I ask directly.
He says he is committed to working on the marriage. He told me he loves me in person, on the phone and is greeting me with a hug & kiss.
I feel like he thinks we can just pick up right where we left off.
He did tell me that if things ever started to get off track in our marriage again that he would be sure I knew it & understood we had things to work on. That he wouldn't just walk out again.
And here's the weird thing - I was pretty much convinced that he would never come back. I'm kind of disappointed - maybe, not sure if that's the right word? that this could be over so soon. I still have work to do on myself. And I know that I can and still need to do that. Just a little harder when I'm throwing his needs & the kids that have to be taken out of my limited time also.
My GAL is continuing. Labor Day weekend was supposed to be my weekend with the kids and I already had beach reservations with my mom for the long weekend. Kids & I are still going. H says he will probably just stay in the town where he works since we will be gone anyway. I have anxiety about this.
Saturday night H & I got a babysitter and went out to eat. The heavy stuff and talks are emotionally draining. Although we did have a fairly long drive in the car - about 45 minutes to where we went to eat, so we did talk a little about our stitch on the way to dinner. I wanted to show him that we could have fun and the new, improved Sam. We did have a really nice time. Went to eat & a local bar on the way home for a drink.
The physical stuff is/was a huge problem for him. So I am trying my best now that I have been given the opportunity. That I can give him what he needs affection wise. Even though part of me feels like I'm faking it. I'm very hurt that he muddied up our waters by bringing a 3rd party in. If our marital issues, were still just our issues - I would have an easier time showing my changes. But, at this point I feel like I need to show him that I can provide him that. Right, Wrong? He wants me text him to tell him "I'm thinking about him" or that "I miss him." I would love to do that. But, I wish I knew he had both feet in before I started being really vulnerable to him again. But, I know that he needs it.
He knows that I need some reassurance right now. He has been good about calling & texting throughout the day and at night. But I have major anxiety when he left to go back to work. I'm 3 hours away. OW lives 11 minutes/4 miles away from him.
Am I always going to wonder what if he's with her? What if he ran in to her? Every time he goes to dinner. If my goal is to provide any financial security to my family - I don't feel like I can demand that he quit his job right now. He makes a very good salary. I know jobs aren't that easy to find right now. And, the job market locally where we live is just not the same as where his job out of town is.
He has an extended family member that has had multiple affairs on his wife. His family member got caught this most recent time after it had been happening 2 years. H said he "didn't understand why family member would do that and live a lie. Why not do what H did and tell his wife that it was over, before starting something else like he (my H) did." I said "I don't know if they can come back from that." He said, "well we are." and gave me a kiss. So I guess he's optimistic?
If he really wants to do something with OW, he will. I don't want to forever be that wife that doesn't trust him. And he feels like it's his stuff. His actions will show me what he is up to. Especially if he doesn't know about my intel. Although I was thinking of asking him to download find my friends app on his iphone to give me some peace of mind.
I'm really confused about everything and I feel like I have a mountain of work to do still.
Thanks for reading if you made it this far! Any comments are always appreciated.
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
H has been coming home every weekend. We have spent some time time together alone each weekend he has been here at home. And spending time together as a family.
Things would seem really good. He texts throughout the day, calls, tells me where he is or who he is with, (I can only verify where he is) says he loves me, says he is committed to working on our marriage.
I have gotten more insight to what the problems were. He says he felt like a paycheck and someone to help relieve me in childcare. He didn't feel like a partner, didn't feel like we had a romantic relationship or that I even loved him.
A problem that I identified during our separation was that I resented things that he did and ways that I felt controlled. It really bothers me that I am not on bank accounts and can't even log on to see bank accounts. He does not want to provide financial transparency. He says "we never had that before why do you want that now?" You are the beneficiary on everything. You have everything you need.
I asked about transparency with the cell phone. He does not think that is necessary and his phone is a company phone. So he said "I'm not even sure we can get detailed call records or that it is allowed because I'm not the account owner." Ugghhh. He said "here look at my phone". But I know its all too easy to delete texts and calls.
He insists there was nothing going on with OW before he told me our marriage was over. And he has said he feels like he's better and more honest than other(men)people we know that have had affairs, because he came to me and said the marriage was over before he began talking to anyone.
He says that "he told me he would not try to come back on work on the marriage unless he was 'all in'. If I ever thought I knew anything about my H prior to this it was that he had integrity and would never do this. My old H would not be here with us on weekends & calling me & texting me lovingly if he was involved with someone else. But, now I don't know what to believe
I specifically asked him this weekend if they had sex. He said "I'm not going to answer that. That has nothing to do with the problems we had in our marriage."
He does not want to go to marriage counseling. He said we have been two different times during the marriage. We went 4 years ago & at the beginning of June. I told him I'm not sure that beginning of June counts as marriage counseling when he was lying to me & the counselor. He was wasting everyones time & money. He said "I learned a lot from marriage counseling when we went before. I know how to be a good husband. I just quit our marriage because I was tired of being with someone who didn't show me any love & I had no relationship with." Valid points? Yes.
I'm thinking of asking him to go to counseling for me. Just to help me get over the additional damage & hurt that has been done since we separated.
I'm REALLY struggling with the A. It hurts. My H & I have been together for so long & I *thought* we loved each other a lot. I can't believe that this is part of our story now. It hurts that he let someone else in our marriage and I'm supposed to just get over my feelings of betrayal. I'm really scared of opening my heart up completely and getting hurt/destroyed again. I feel like in some ways I'm in a harder place than I was a month ago.
There are some of the same old habits of our old marriage and I don't want things to go back how we were. He tells me whats going to happen example: I'm not going to counseling again. And I'm scared to stand up to him. We talk about things and then they aren't discussed again. I'm still not over whatever situation is. And I hold on to it. Something else happens. And *wash, rinse, repeat* And I do know that my H is not a talker and I can & like to talk things to death. No matter what it's about.
I had a long talk with my stepdad about the situation. He is honest with me and says "yes, Sam you can be difficult." Stepdad says H is not to be trusted right now. He doesn't understand his motives for wanting to work on marriage now. And he says that no matter what it speaks volumes of his character that he left me with 3 small children including a 10 week old very sick baby that has lifelong health problems. He feels like I need to find out why he left when he did.
I have had that conversation with H - he says he could not take anymore. He had no connection with me and could not take it anymore. Poor timing - ABSOLUTELY.
So I am calling on DB vets or anyone - Is it important as to why he BD when he did?
Does this indicate some sort of character flaw in someone who cuts & runs on a wife with 3 kids & sick newborn?
How do I address the non-transparency?
Is it possible or advised for me to remain detached during this piecing period?
My H wants/needs physical touch. Is it recommended to fake it til you make it?
I keep remembering Starsky saying Effort is a choice but feelings take time. I'm guessing this applies to LBS as well. My head wants to work on my marriage. I think it will take time for my feelings to catch up and be there.
Thanks in advance!
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
Your H is gaslighting. Do you notice how he flips things around and makes YOU at fault for things that he did? As if he had no freewill and he was somehow controlled by you. That's not the case.
For example, the fact that he said that he wasn't going to answer your question about whether or not he had sex with the OW means that he did. Also, as his W you DESERVE transparency when it comes to the finances. Trust goes two ways. He says he wants you to trust him but won't give you any in return.
"he says he could not take anymore. He had no connection with me and could not take it anymore. "
BS. He is being a selfish baby and didn't want responsibility any more. So he tried dumping you with it and be free.
My suggestion would be to start limiting your time with him. Tell him straight up that you don't enjoy feeling used and not being respected by him. And that the fact that he isn't giving you the information you need to trust him again, shows that. Then start living independently as if he wasn't there. He is trickle truthing you.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Thank you Mr. Bond! I read up on gaslighting & infidelity and I understand.
Is it possible that he is not answering questions or wanting to talk about everything because he thinks I would not consider taking him back? I know this is probably mind reading & he should be prepared for the consequences of his actions. And I know that he most likely had sex with Ow. But why does he not want to answer? Is it common that he feels what happened during separation is irrelevant because we were "separated"?
He left the burner phone here with me. Does anyone know if I can access a Sprint cell phone that is on a corporate account?
Thanks!
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
Your H is gaslighting. Do you notice how he flips things around and makes YOU at fault for things that he did? As if he had no freewill and he was somehow controlled by you. That's not the case.
For example, the fact that he said that he wasn't going to answer your question about whether or not he had sex with the OW means that he did. Also, as his W you DESERVE transparency when it comes to the finances. Trust goes two ways. He says he wants you to trust him but won't give you any in return.
"he says he could not take anymore. He had no connection with me and could not take it anymore. "
BS. He is being a selfish baby and didn't want responsibility any more. So he tried dumping you with it and be free.
My suggestion would be to start limiting your time with him. Tell him straight up that you don't enjoy feeling used and not being respected by him. And that the fact that he isn't giving you the information you need to trust him again, shows that. Then start living independently as if he wasn't there. He is trickle truthing you.
In doing my work & working on me, I have tried not to gloss over the marriage problems prior to separation. And my contributions to the downfall. So if things were that bad in his eyes & he really could not take anymore, should he be faulted for the way he handled or coped with situation by running away?
Is it common for a WAS not to want to discuss things that happened during separation? My H does not feel he had an affair because we were separated. I'm really not interested in details during S. Is it important to discuss what happened during S? This is why I'm unsure how hard to push on the phone transparency. The relationship/friendship with OW started after BD. And I'm not sure he or I can even access phone records because it is his company cell thru corporate account. Anyone have any ideas to work around that?
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
First, let me ask you this: you said way up there that you are scared to stand up to him. Why? Is it fear of being left alone?
I'm going to be honest: your H is being an arrogant prick. Your posts have my blood boiling because of him.
If he were genuine about working on your M - the way you're going to HAVE to work on it to make it last - then he would be jumping through hoops right now (or at least willing to be) to assure and comfort you to help you bounce back from how his actions made you feel. First and foremost, though, he'd need to acknowledge he hurt you instead of making a bunch of pitiful, arrogant excuses for (and thereby making light of) what he did.
And why the hel! would he have a problem being transparent about your family's finances?
Ummm no. Just no.
Sam, you asked if it's common for a WAS not to want to discuss things that happened during a S. *Of course* they don't *want* to ... especially if they were having an A! But here's the thing: if they want back into the M, and they realize that's what YOU need to make you start feeling safe again, they'd talk anyway! They'd be willing to give you *whatever you need*! If you need to discuss it, he should be willing to discuss it. Period.
Your H, I'm sorry to say, is absolutely nowhere near that. Nowhere near it.
I would absolutely put my foot down on complete transparency, Sam. How are you to feel safe in your M again without it?
My suggestion would be to start limiting your time with him. Tell him straight up that you don't enjoy feeling used and not being respected by him. And that the fact that he isn't giving you the information you need to trust him again, shows that. Then start living independently as if he wasn't there. He is trickle truthing you. I am absolutely in full agreement with Bond here.
I know it may seem we're advising that you go backwards. Where you are with your H right now probably feels like progress to you. Am I right? But it's not progress. You have your H being nice to you and spending more time with you. But he's leading you around by your nose, sweetie. And I KNOW you have more backbone, self-respect and determination than to put up with that for long.
It's time to train him how to treat you.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
He's patronizing!!! And I hate it when people are patronizing!!
He's treating you like a child ... like he's Big Daddy and you just need to mind your pretty little business in the house and "trust him."
Trust he's not looking at porn.
Trust he's not talking to OW on his phone.
Trust he isn't spending family money on OW or strippers during the week.
Oh wait! That's right! Never mind! That's not family money. That's HIS money and you have no business knowing how he spends it.
You know, because he's the Big Daddy and he puts you up in his house and pays for your macaroni and cheese and table scraps while he eats God-knows-what because he keeps you in the dark about family finances.
Ugh!
Y'all are supposed to be PARTNERS. TEAMMATES.
He's not your daddy!
Demand a partner. Don't you settle for less, lil mama.
Something tells me, based only on what permeates from underneath your posts (your character), that if H isn't willing to step up and treat you like the queen you are, there'll be a LINE of men who WILL.
Sending you strong fist bumps.
I believe in you.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Train! Thank you so much for the feedback. I so appreciate your input! I'm updating in a few as soon as I get to the desktop.
By the way- I was rereading some of your old threads. H & I have some good friends of ours that live in your town. They live on the lake. We have been to visit them a few times. I love it there!!! I'm not sure how small of the town is that who knows who but he is a driver. And maybe with that info you might better understand my H and his mentality about finances. Does that make sense?
Last edited by Sam3; 09/17/1403:41 PM. Reason: Spelling
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
First, let me ask you this: you said way up there that you are scared to stand up to him. Why? Is it fear of being left alone?
Yes, I guess it is a fear of being alone. In our marriage my H is dominant. He runs the finances, pays the bills, etc. I feel like after I stayed home with kids it's the roles we had. I'm pretty passive and have realized a rug sweeper because I tend to avoid conflict or want it over as quickly as possible.
We talked over the weekend while he was here - I told him this...
If he were genuine about working on your M - the way you're going to HAVE to work on it to make it last - then he would be jumping through hoops right now (or at least willing to be) to assure and comfort you to help you bounce back from how his actions made you feel. He says he is doing everything he knows to make me feel better. He calls or texts throughout the day. He is checking in constantly. Spending all his time with me. He's not going out during the week.
We talked about finances. He said he would add me to his accounts that he has. But he doesn't want me to be questioning every dollar he spends. He agreed to put me on the accounts. I validated his feelings (not sure if I should be still) that it may feel controlling because this is new to our marriage but I need it to feel safe.
He said he would send her a NC text this weekend when he is home if that's what I need.
He is asking what else I need to feel reassured. I'm not sure at this point.
To be honest with all my DB friends - I am taking the trust but verify approach. I put a keylogger on the computer so I have been able to monitor the spending out of the bank accounts. And his find my iphone is now turned on with out him knowing that I have the icloud password. So I can track his phone 24/7. His phone is always with him because of his job. I'm no sure how I feel about being deceptive. I am asking him to be transparent and honest with me but I'm being secretive with verifying what he says.
We went to dinner Monday night because during BD a complaint was he & I spend no time together without kids. We are driving down the road & he says "I have a surprise for you" and he pulls out his wedding ring and puts it on. (neither one of us have been wearing rings since May)
Instead of being happy I have to give my typical smart a$$ comment that "that's great that he wants to wear his ring but it's more important that he wears it when he is not with me and who knows if he takes it off while at work all week." He tells me he was trying to show that he is committed to our marriage and is doing what he knows how to do to show me. And I'm continuing to be my snarky self. We continued to bicker and I almost started to cry. This is all just so hard!!! We managed to talk about other stuff and ended up having a good time.
Because he would not answer my question about sex. He continues to say "why do you want to talk about the past 3 or 4 months after I told you I wanted out of the marriage & you told me to go. Lets talk about the problems for the past 3 years." He says he was trying hard to hold our marriage together & after we had the baby and baby was sick I was living at the hospital & taking care of other kids we drifted apart.
I know that everyone deals with crisis differently. Can I give him the benefit of doubt and accept that he could not cope with what was going on and just went off the grid? He says he wants to live in the present and focus on today and our future not the 3 or 4 month separation. I understand this & see so many people here say the past is the past and it can't be changed.
Here's where it gets ugly - He brought his burner phone home for me a couple of weeks ago - that he used from end of June until end of July. It was scrubbed clean. Nothing on the phone. I decided to do a recovery of deleted info on it.
Wow. I'm not sure if you can ever be prepared to read text exchanges from your spouse and their affair partner. The texts messages were sexual and I know now that they must have had sex and were staying over at each others places. I knew I had to be prepared for it. But it sent me back to BD day.
He called last night to tell me he was home, goodnight, etc. He asked what I was doing. I told him I was reading deleted text messages on his phone. There was dead silence.. He asked why I keep doing this to myself? I told him I asked a question about sex and I wanted the answer even if he would not provide the information.
He said "are you going to do this for the next 40 years?" Why do you want to continue to hurt yourself?" He is getting frustrated and I see it. I fully expect him to say any day that he's giving up trying. I've been pounding him with questions & frustrations every day. He said "can't we have one day where we are just happy and not talk about this?" I said " you live 3 hours a way all week and this person is 4 miles away from you. Oh my gosh how do I even begin to trust you?" He told me it's over with her has been since before I called him out. That they weren't hanging out as much. And he told her he was going home to his family on 8/19. I asked him if he cared about her, he said she was a nobody to him.
He says when he made up his mind to work on our marriage that is what he wants to do -nothing is standing in the way of that, he loves me, he is in love with me & he knows that this hurt me. He is not giving up on us and will do what I need to feel better.
Is he still gaslighting??? How do I let this go. I don't want to be out "pain shopping" but don't want to stick my head in the sand. I almost still can't believe my H had an affair. How do I move forward? How do I learn to live in the present and let go of the past? How do I keep DBing? I'm hurting - more now than during this separation. If that's even possible. I'm going to reread DR tonight.
Thanks in advance. I appreciate this forum and all of the people here.
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
Hey, Sam, I wanted to let you know, I know that gut punch of reading sexts between your husband and his affair partner. You are where I was last fall.
I'm sure Train will be along shortly, but I wanted to suggest to you... if you think he's sincere and your verify procedures are supporting what he's telling you, then you need to find a balance between satisfying your need to know and not beating him up with what he did.
This is a REALLY difficult balance and I did not find it. So I don't have a suggestion for you. MC probably would help if he's open to it, and I know some people suggest scheduling affair questions so both of you can be prepared and detached. With him working so far from home, that's going to be a huge challenge.
I don't think he can hang out with her and not have it become a problem. My two cents. Even if he insists he can, I don't think that's as true as he might like it to be. So keep monitoring. He's giving you a reason to do it by not answering all your questions, even the uncomfortable ones.
I hope you get better advice soon, but I wanted you to know you aren't alone. I hope things work out better for you than I managed during this weird time.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
Maybell- Thank you! I'm thankful there are others who can understand the feeling that comes with reading or seeing the A in black & white.
I know it happened but seeing texts that are date & time stamped have me spinning. What were the kids & I doing? Did he call & say goodnight to the kids in the middle of their texting? What was his mood that day? Etc.
He will not be around her. I definitely can't handle that. He said he has no communication with her. She is in the same town & she does live not far from him. There is a possibility that they could run into each other at a restaurant or a bar that I know they went to together.
I also worry what if she shows up at his place? I mean that could happen - she spent the night with him. She knows where he lives & where his office is.
I will keep verifying. He actually said last night - I wish there was a way for you to know I'm at home at night. Maybe I should text you a picture with my iPad showing the time & date. I just replied " maybe there is."
I wish he could have answered my questions and that I didn't read the texts. Although who's to say I would not have read them anyway. And, I'm not sure I can honestly say I wish I had not read them. It gives me a glimpse into who he is with other people and what he was doing in our separation.
Thanks again Maybell!
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
Train- Thank you!!! I did get to read it. I didn't really get to absorb everything. Went back to look over it again, and it was gone. Boo!
I'm doing okay. H told me sun night that Ow has texted him a few times about some random things including some flip flops that he lost in July, that she *thought* she found last week. Huh???
I was a little angry about this. I think she's a home wrecking wh00re. But I managed to tell him I appreciated him being honest with me.
I took a screenshot of your Nc letter that y'all did. I told him obviously whatever telephone conversation they had about his intentions was not cutting it. I told him I needed to know that he told her he did not wish to communicate with her.
So he said "tell me what you want me to say to her for you to understand that I don't want to talk to her." He took his phone & sent a text of a very similar Nc that Mr Train wrote. He said I just want this over & not to spend my sun night talking about a stupid b!tch that I don't even care about.
I would like to let him know he can block her number. But I don't know if that leaves me trying to clean up his mess.
And, deep down I'm really freaking angry! I know I've mentioned it in my threads but I had a 10 week old baby when he bomb dropped. A baby that, during this whole separation I have taken by myself to specialists, for blood work, to speech therapy, to physical therapy, to a pulmonologist. I'm *almost* a little more angry that he left when I needed him the most. But who am I kidding? I'm pretty pissed about the PA too.
Baby spent the first 4 weeks in the Nicu. So my H decides he is just so unhappy with me & the lack if attention he gets from me that he leaves just 6 weeks after a critically ill infant comes home?
We have talked about it. The reasons, what led up to it. I'm trying to work thru my anger about that I feel he abandoned us. I'm working on forgiving. But, I'm not sure I will ever understand why he had to leave when he did. And I don't think he will ever know how much that hurt me. To face the uncertainty & scariness of the situation with someone who was only interested in being a co parent over the phone. While in truth he was partying & vacationing with OW.
Today, I'm a little grumpy. Thanks for listening to my vent.
H:40 Me:35 D5 S4 S3 months Married 8 years Together 17 years BD: 5/23/2014
Sam, I get it. And I'm glad you're venting. Just remember there are three types of spouses. Those that never walk away, those that do and never look back, and those that do and see the light. From a cosmic perspective although walking away is very hurtful, the willingness to grow past that says a lot. No, it's not all better today, but your life wouldn't have been better today had he still been gone. It's not about today, it's about 6 months from now, a year from now, and the rest of your life. You have the opportunity to be with someone that has learned from their mistakes and enough sense to see the value in a life long partnership. What's more, you know he has the capacity to grow and change during difficult times. While there will be more hard times ahead- that's life. But you can do that with a partner who will be there for the count. That's of course assuming he follows through with his current trajectory.
So it's ok to feel this way now, just don't let it sabotage the potential for where you might be in six months. And I hope he sees the value in being patient for a while with you as we'll. I think he biggest hurdle with 'the road home' is that a new R starts with passion and excitement while the road home starts with hard work and rocky waters. Make sure they're not so rocky he can't stick it out, but then again if he can't handle some of the natural repercussions of his actions he wouldn't make it for the count anyway.
Above all, continue to be the woman you want to be. While that's someone with self respect, feelings, and boundaries, I also hope that's someone that can transcend resentment and pain and risk further disappointment and hurt to give the chance for a truly beautiful marriage to blossom.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
