WAH & MLC? - EA/PA - Please Help

[Sam3]

A long overdue update.

H has been coming home every weekend. We have spent some time time together alone each weekend he has been here at home. And spending time together as a family.

Things would seem really good. He texts throughout the day, calls, tells me where he is or who he is with, (I can only verify where he is) says he loves me, says he is committed to working on our marriage.

I have gotten more insight to what the problems were. He says he felt like a paycheck and someone to help relieve me in childcare. He didn't feel like a partner, didn't feel like we had a romantic relationship or that I even loved him.

A problem that I identified during our separation was that I resented things that he did and ways that I felt controlled. It really bothers me that I am not on bank accounts and can't even log on to see bank accounts.
He does not want to provide financial transparency. He says "we never had that before why do you want that now?" You are the beneficiary on everything. You have everything you need.

I asked about transparency with the cell phone. He does not think that is necessary and his phone is a company phone. So he said "I'm not even sure we can get detailed call records or that it is allowed because I'm not the account owner." Ugghhh.
He said "here look at my phone".
But I know its all too easy to delete texts and calls.


He insists there was nothing going on with OW before he told me our marriage was over. And he has said he feels like he's better and more honest than other(men)people we know that have had affairs, because he came to me and said the marriage was over before he began talking to anyone.

He says that "he told me he would not try to come back on work on the marriage unless he was 'all in'. If I ever thought I knew anything about my H prior to this it was that he had integrity and would never do this. My old H would not be here with us on weekends & calling me & texting me lovingly if he was involved with someone else. But, now I don't know what to believe

I specifically asked him this weekend if they had sex. He said "I'm not going to answer that. That has nothing to do with the problems we had in our marriage."

He does not want to go to marriage counseling. He said we have been two different times during the marriage. We went 4 years ago & at the beginning of June. I told him I'm not sure that beginning of June counts as marriage counseling when he was lying to me & the counselor. He was wasting everyones time & money. He said "I learned a lot from marriage counseling when we went before. I know how to be a good husband. I just quit our marriage because I was tired of being with someone who didn't show me any love & I had no relationship with." Valid points? Yes.

I'm thinking of asking him to go to counseling for me. Just to help me get over the additional damage & hurt that has been done since we separated.

I'm REALLY struggling with the A. It hurts. My H & I have been together for so long & I *thought* we loved each other a lot. I can't believe that this is part of our story now. It hurts that he let someone else in our marriage and I'm supposed to just get over my feelings of betrayal.
I'm really scared of opening my heart up completely and getting hurt/destroyed again.
I feel like in some ways I'm in a harder place than I was a month ago.

There are some of the same old habits of our old marriage and I don't want things to go back how we were. He tells me whats going to happen example: I'm not going to counseling again.
And I'm scared to stand up to him.
We talk about things and then they aren't discussed again. I'm still not over whatever situation is. And I hold on to it. Something else happens. And *wash, rinse, repeat*
And I do know that my H is not a talker and I can & like to talk things to death. No matter what it's about.

I had a long talk with my stepdad about the situation. He is honest with me and says "yes, Sam you can be difficult."
Stepdad says H is not to be trusted right now. He doesn't understand his motives for wanting to work on marriage now.
And he says that no matter what it speaks volumes of his character that he left me with 3 small children including a 10 week old very sick baby that has lifelong health problems.
He feels like I need to find out why he left when he did.

I have had that conversation with H - he says he could not take anymore. He had no connection with me and could not take it anymore. Poor timing - ABSOLUTELY.

So I am calling on DB vets or anyone -
Is it important as to why he BD when he did?

Does this indicate some sort of character flaw in someone who cuts & runs on a wife with 3 kids & sick newborn?

How do I address the non-transparency?

Is it possible or advised for me to remain detached during this piecing period?

My H wants/needs physical touch. Is it recommended to fake it til you make it?

I keep remembering Starsky saying Effort is a choice but feelings take time. I'm guessing this applies to LBS as well. My head wants to work on my marriage. I think it will take time for my feelings to catch up and be there.

Thanks in advance!

[MrBond]

Your H is gaslighting. Do you notice how he flips things around and makes YOU at fault for things that he did? As if he had no freewill and he was somehow controlled by you. That's not the case.

For example, the fact that he said that he wasn't going to answer your question about whether or not he had sex with the OW means that he did. Also, as his W you DESERVE transparency when it comes to the finances. Trust goes two ways. He says he wants you to trust him but won't give you any in return.

"he says he could not take anymore. He had no connection with me and could not take it anymore. "

BS. He is being a selfish baby and didn't want responsibility any more. So he tried dumping you with it and be free.

My suggestion would be to start limiting your time with him. Tell him straight up that you don't enjoy feeling used and not being respected by him. And that the fact that he isn't giving you the information you need to trust him again, shows that. Then start living independently as if he wasn't there. He is trickle truthing you.

[Sam3]

Thank you Mr. Bond! I read up on gaslighting & infidelity and I understand.

Is it possible that he is not answering questions or wanting to talk about everything because he thinks I would not consider taking him back? I know this is probably mind reading & he should be prepared for the consequences of his actions. And I know that he most likely had sex with Ow. But why does he not want to answer? Is it common that he feels what happened during separation is irrelevant because we were "separated"?

He left the burner phone here with me. Does anyone know if I can access a Sprint cell phone that is on a corporate account?

Thanks!

[Starsky309]

Your H is gaslighting. Do you notice how he flips things around and makes YOU at fault for things that he did? As if he had no freewill and he was somehow controlled by you. That's not the case.

For example, the fact that he said that he wasn't going to answer your question about whether or not he had sex with the OW means that he did. Also, as his W you DESERVE transparency when it comes to the finances. Trust goes two ways. He says he wants you to trust him but won't give you any in return.

"he says he could not take anymore. He had no connection with me and could not take it anymore. "

BS. He is being a selfish baby and didn't want responsibility any more. So he tried dumping you with it and be free.

My suggestion would be to start limiting your time with him. Tell him straight up that you don't enjoy feeling used and not being respected by him. And that the fact that he isn't giving you the information you need to trust him again, shows that. Then start living independently as if he wasn't there. He is trickle truthing you.

x 3. This is golden. ^^^


Starsky

[Sam3]

Thanks for the feedback Mr.Bond & Starsky.

In doing my work & working on me, I have tried not to gloss over the marriage problems prior to separation. And my contributions to the downfall. So if things were that bad in his eyes & he really could not take anymore, should he be faulted for the way he handled or coped with situation by running away?

Is it common for a WAS not to want to discuss things that happened during separation? My H does not feel he had an affair because we were separated. I'm really not interested in details during S. Is it important to discuss what happened during S? This is why I'm unsure how hard to push on the phone transparency. The relationship/friendship with OW started after BD. And I'm not sure he or I can even access phone records because it is his company cell thru corporate account. Anyone have any ideas to work around that?

[Train]

Oh, Sam. I've been wondering how you were doing.

First, let me ask you this: you said way up there that you are scared to stand up to him. Why? Is it fear of being left alone?

I'm going to be honest: your H is being an arrogant prick. Your posts have my blood boiling because of him.

If he were genuine about working on your M - the way you're going to HAVE to work on it to make it last - then he would be jumping through hoops right now (or at least willing to be) to assure and comfort you to help you bounce back from how his actions made you feel. First and foremost, though, he'd need to acknowledge he hurt you instead of making a bunch of pitiful, arrogant excuses for (and thereby making light of) what he did.

And why the hel! would he have a problem being transparent about your family's finances?

Ummm no. Just no.

Sam, you asked if it's common for a WAS not to want to discuss things that happened during a S. *Of course* they don't *want* to ... especially if they were having an A! But here's the thing: if they want back into the M, and they realize that's what YOU need to make you start feeling safe again, they'd talk anyway! They'd be willing to give you *whatever you need*! If you need to discuss it, he should be willing to discuss it. Period.

Your H, I'm sorry to say, is absolutely nowhere near that. Nowhere near it.

I would absolutely put my foot down on complete transparency, Sam. How are you to feel safe in your M again without it?

My suggestion would be to start limiting your time with him. Tell him straight up that you don't enjoy feeling used and not being respected by him. And that the fact that he isn't giving you the information you need to trust him again, shows that. Then start living independently as if he wasn't there. He is trickle truthing you.
I am absolutely in full agreement with Bond here.

I know it may seem we're advising that you go backwards. Where you are with your H right now probably feels like progress to you. Am I right? But it's not progress. You have your H being nice to you and spending more time with you. But he's leading you around by your nose, sweetie. And I KNOW you have more backbone, self-respect and determination than to put up with that for long.

It's time to train him how to treat you.

[Train]

This has been eating at me all day.

You know what it is?

He's patronizing!!! And I hate it when people are patronizing!!

He's treating you like a child ... like he's Big Daddy and you just need to mind your pretty little business in the house and "trust him."

Trust he's not looking at porn.

Trust he's not talking to OW on his phone.

Trust he isn't spending family money on OW or strippers during the week.

Oh wait! That's right! Never mind! That's not family money. That's HIS money and you have no business knowing how he spends it.

You know, because he's the Big Daddy and he puts you up in his house and pays for your macaroni and cheese and table scraps while he eats God-knows-what because he keeps you in the dark about family finances.

Ugh!

Y'all are supposed to be PARTNERS. TEAMMATES.

He's not your daddy!

Demand a partner. Don't you settle for less, lil mama.

Something tells me, based only on what permeates from underneath your posts (your character), that if H isn't willing to step up and treat you like the queen you are, there'll be a LINE of men who WILL.

Sending you strong fist bumps.

I believe in you.

[Train]

Okay, okay. I've calmed down now.

My apologies for my rants ...

What's new, Sam?

[Sam3]

Train! Thank you so much for the feedback. I so appreciate your input!
I'm updating in a few as soon as I get to the desktop.

By the way- I was rereading some of your old threads.
H & I have some good friends of ours that live in your town.
They live on the lake. We have been to visit them a few times.
I love it there!!! I'm not sure how small of the town is that who knows who but he is a driver. And maybe with that info you might better understand my H and his mentality about finances. Does that make sense?

[Sam3]

An update & answering questions -

First, let me ask you this: you said way up there that you are scared to stand up to him. Why? Is it fear of being left alone?

Yes, I guess it is a fear of being alone. In our marriage my H is dominant. He runs the finances, pays the bills, etc. I feel like after I stayed home with kids it's the roles we had. I'm pretty passive and have realized a rug sweeper because I tend to avoid conflict or want it over as quickly as possible.

We talked over the weekend while he was here - I told him this...

If he were genuine about working on your M - the way you're going to HAVE to work on it to make it last - then he would be jumping through hoops right now (or at least willing to be) to assure and comfort you to help you bounce back from how his actions made you feel.
He says he is doing everything he knows to make me feel better. He calls or texts throughout the day. He is checking in constantly. Spending all his time with me. He's not going out during the week.

We talked about finances. He said he would add me to his accounts that he has. But he doesn't want me to be questioning every dollar he spends.
He agreed to put me on the accounts. I validated his feelings (not sure if I should be still) that it may feel controlling because this is new to our marriage but I need it to feel safe.

He said he would send her a NC text this weekend when he is home if that's what I need.

He is asking what else I need to feel reassured. I'm not sure at this point.

To be honest with all my DB friends - I am taking the trust but verify approach. I put a keylogger on the computer so I have been able to monitor the spending out of the bank accounts. And his find my iphone is now turned on with out him knowing that I have the icloud password. So I can track his phone 24/7. His phone is always with him because of his job. I'm no sure how I feel about being deceptive. I am asking him to be transparent and honest with me but I'm being secretive with verifying what he says.

We went to dinner Monday night because during BD a complaint was he & I spend no time together without kids. We are driving down the road & he says "I have a surprise for you" and he pulls out his wedding ring and puts it on. (neither one of us have been wearing rings since May)

Instead of being happy I have to give my typical smart a$$ comment that "that's great that he wants to wear his ring but it's more important that he wears it when he is not with me and who knows if he takes it off while at work all week."
He tells me he was trying to show that he is committed to our marriage and is doing what he knows how to do to show me. And I'm continuing to be my snarky self.
We continued to bicker and I almost started to cry. This is all just so hard!!!
We managed to talk about other stuff and ended up having a good time.

Because he would not answer my question about sex. He continues to say "why do you want to talk about the past 3 or 4 months after I told you I wanted out of the marriage & you told me to go. Lets talk about the problems for the past 3 years." He says he was trying hard to hold our marriage together & after we had the baby and baby was sick I was living at the hospital & taking care of other kids we drifted apart.

I know that everyone deals with crisis differently. Can I give him the benefit of doubt and accept that he could not cope with what was going on and just went off the grid?
He says he wants to live in the present and focus on today and our future not the 3 or 4 month separation. I understand this & see so many people here say the past is the past and it can't be changed.

Here's where it gets ugly -
He brought his burner phone home for me a couple of weeks ago - that he used from end of June until end of July. It was scrubbed clean. Nothing on the phone. I decided to do a recovery of deleted info on it.

Wow. I'm not sure if you can ever be prepared to read text exchanges from your spouse and their affair partner. The texts messages were sexual and I know now that they must have had sex and were staying over at each others places. I knew I had to be prepared for it. But it sent me back to BD day.


He called last night to tell me he was home, goodnight, etc. He asked what I was doing. I told him I was reading deleted text messages on his phone. There was dead silence.. He asked why I keep doing this to myself? I told him I asked a question about sex and I wanted the answer even if he would not provide the information.

He said "are you going to do this for the next 40 years?" Why do you want to continue to hurt yourself?" He is getting frustrated and I see it. I fully expect him to say any day that he's giving up trying. I've been pounding him with questions & frustrations every day. He said "can't we have one day where we are just happy and not talk about this?" I said " you live 3 hours a way all week and this person is 4 miles away from you. Oh my gosh how do I even begin to trust you?" He told me it's over with her has been since before I called him out. That they weren't hanging out as much. And he told her he was going home to his family on 8/19. I asked him if he cared about her, he said she was a nobody to him.

He says when he made up his mind to work on our marriage that is what he wants to do -nothing is standing in the way of that, he loves me, he is in love with me & he knows that this hurt me. He is not giving up on us and will do what I need to feel better.

Is he still gaslighting??? How do I let this go. I don't want to be out "pain shopping" but don't want to stick my head in the sand. I almost still can't believe my H had an affair.
How do I move forward? How do I learn to live in the present and let go of the past? How do I keep DBing?
I'm hurting - more now than during this separation. If that's even possible.
I'm going to reread DR tonight.

Thanks in advance. I appreciate this forum and all of the people here.