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#2470617 07/19/14 05:21 PM
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Link to my previous thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2470295&page=1

W has been in contact a bit more this past week making a good point to start a subtle shift in my approach and time for a new thread.


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
Joined: Oct 2013
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With a new thread and upcoming birthday, it is time for a new name. Retiring my DB2013 username and now using Anders (Strong: what I am working on with my journey).

Good to have a less ambiguous sounding handle.

Busy last few days but I will post more soon.


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 180
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Journal: One thing I wished I had done right from the start of this process was to keep a calendar of W and I's interactions to gauge our progress.

I have been more diligent with this in the past four months. And in the last couple of weeks, it has been interesting to see W initiating contact a lot more frequently albeit around 'logistical' issues such as bills and mail. Still not in regular contact but relatively speaking, a lot more within the context of our situation.

So I took a chance to test how warm the water is and sent W a non-'logistics' text (yes-I signed up for that program to add to my DB toolbox) about an indie movie coming to town which she would have got a kick out of. She sent back a laughing emoticon and mentioned she had heard of it.

Baby steps.


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,708
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Glad it worked. Stay patient. I myself am trying to let me STBX control the warmth and subject matter of communications.

Look- if every time she shows warmth you rush in and try to take every inch, and maybe crowd in a little closer...then she will be on the defense, backing away, and hesitant to show warmth thinking it may lead to further advances she's not ready for.

My interpretation of DB approach is to respond at about 80-90% of my Stbx's level of warmth. And let her continue to lead. It has worked for me.
For example, we had a warm exchange two Sundays ago. A couple actually. I felt it was a 'ment of weakness' for her, she was showing feelings she wasn't ready to show. So I down played it, acted casual. Then she didn't contact me much for two weeks, and when she did it was all business. I let it be, and responded equally business like (with goodwill but not emotional). This last weekend she started warming up again, I responded warmly as well but nothing more than how I'd treat a neighbor. When I saw her to swap kids we had a warm exchange, but again, I down played it and was the first to head out. I'm trying to send the message that I'm warm but not pushing.

With that in mind, keep up the great work. And pay attention to what you've been doing to get those types if good vibes...then keep doing it!!! Wishing you more good things!


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
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Thanks Zues. I have to say very impressive how folks with kids like yourself are handling your situations.


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
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MIL sent me a note to say she was thinking of me on my birthday. I replied back with gratitude but got caught up with emotion and also told her that I missed them.

Then saw an email W sent very early this morning. She had been waiting on news about a new job in another city and it came through. She then signed off 'I hope you had a happy birthday'.

This is a small step forward from last year when she didn't say anything at all but I'm also trying very hard not to read too much into this.

I congratulated her on her new job, thanked her for the birthday wish and wished her a good week.


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 180
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Journal:
There are pros and cons to the long distance and limited contact with my feelings and perspectives about Mrs. Anders shifting, wondering where W and I's R is. Trying to focus on my own growth and healing but there are those moments.

A question that has me reflecting on who I am in love with. I have focused on Mrs. Anders’ negatives a lot. There is of course more to her than that.

The first thing that struck me about her is her very gregarious personality and high energy. Not one to be shy about striking up conversations with strangers leaving a lasting and positive impression. She is incredibly sexy and I often told her this but she would always downplay this. Very easy on the eyes with a great smile and laugh.

We met while both interns at the same firm, casual chit chats leading to flirty emails to eventually our first date. Unfortunately, she returned to school soon after across the country marking the first of our many long distance stints since then.

We spent a lot of time talking on the phone which was fantastic in allowing us to get to know each other. The more we talked, the more I found out about her passion for life, her love for her family and the values we shared. We really clicked from the get go. There was a very strong bond between us.
She is very loving, and tender hearted. She loves her family very much but there has always been a tension there. She often told me that she felt like she had to prove herself, especially to her dad though she really looks up to him. He has had a very successful career, with the family well known and respected in the city. She worked hard to prove to others that she could make it on her own without relying on his accomplishments and one of the reasons she doesn't want to make this place home for the long term.

She does have an immense fear of what her parents would think of her decisions. She would often wait until almost the last minute to let her parents know she would be travelling, afraid that they would be critical of her. She felt they wanted her to give up the romantic notion of traveling the world and settle into a career and eventually a family.

She was also disappointed that her father was never home as he traveled a lot and was not really there for her and her brother growing up. Though her dad loves her, I don’t think she has heard him say that he is proud of her.

We both love to travel and this was one of the things we connected on right away alongside dancing. Our mutual interest in travel was great but what drew me more to her was her sense of excitement about life and openness to new cultures and experiences. That she was willing to learn about my home and culture meant a lot to me. The first five years of our relationship was filled with a lot of excitement travelling both for work and for fun, with passion filling all of the rest stops in between.

She is incredibly driven and very independent. With our careers, work and travel begun to take up more of our energy and in hindsight, clear where some of our emotional disconnect begun to happen. The sad irony is that we were seen as having made it professionally and relationship wise amongst friends and family.

It can be very telling who you surround yourself with and without a doubt her and now, our friends are really great people. Our friends have since cross pollinated so this separation and news about W's determination to proceed with divorce has been very unsettling. With the exception of a couple of her close friends, she has largely stayed away from communicating with anyone here.

July has been a much harder month than I anticipated. So many unshared celebrations and milestones on both sides. I am choosing to believe there is a purpose in all of this.


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
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A busy month. I rented out part of the house to a couple similar in age who are visiting town for a couple of weeks. Good to have activity and life in the place making it nice to come home. So much so that I have already booked another tenant for the whole of August.

Word is getting round quickly about our situation it seems. More people reaching out. A little awkward in the professional circles as W and I worked in the same industry with the same networks. People booking coffees to catch up. Still hits me every time someone says 'sorry to hear about ...'.

At the same time I have been putting legs on a side venture which has been keeping me occupied though sleep has been a premium.

Lots of social visits as well with summer in full swing. I didn't realize just how many babies and dogs our circle of friends have all brought into their lives in the past year. It has been great spending time with them: Backyard BBQs, patio beers and birthday parties.

I have neglected my runs this past week. Hoping to settle back into a more balanced routine once my current projects wind down next week. Gearing up for some work travel in the Fall and a potential side consulting gig in Australia which looks more and more appealing. If it works out, I am thinking of adding on a couple of weeks to travel round.

Beautiful sunsets here which I have been enjoying as much as I can. Going through this during the winter was hard enough. A little sunshine and warmth makes it just a little more bearable.

Detaching is still tough. There are moments when I think I have finally got the hang of it but it is an ongoing challenge for me.

Continuing to plow through my reading list of books, soaking it all in. Working through 'A course in miracles' right now as well as re-reading 'Divorce Remedy'. I recently finished Laura Munson's "This is not the story you think it is" and going back to re-read her story about her WAH. A great lesson in patience and inner strength right there.


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 180
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After an increase in W's communication via email a couple of weeks ago, she has gone dark for the last week and a half. I know this is not uncommon in WAW situations. Still, it is difficult trying not to read her mind about what she is thinking and doing.

Some days I fantasize that she is in a tough spot, re-considering her decision, and is just too afraid to let me know.

Her last email was all business but ending with asking how my last few weeks of work are going, as I make the transition to a boutique firm. I let her know I was going to miss my colleagues here but was excited about the new adventure. I may have come across overly excited. Then, no response since.


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
Joined: Oct 2013
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From Coach's signature: Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.

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Journal: August is here and I am trying to maximize outdoor time each day before the weather begins to turn. Work and summer get togethers have kept my mind occupied. The house has felt less lonely with frequent house guests which has been nice.

Then a week ago, I go over for a group dinner at a buddy's place. The sitting arrangement had me next to a female friend of his who separated from her husband. And I had one of the most interesting and insightful conversations I have had in a long time.

It became obvious that she had heard about me and when I looked at my friend, it hit me that this was a setup. It could have been awkward as I mentioned 'my wife' a couple of times and still have my ring on but we hit it off right away.

It was clear that she was very much okay with her separation, being the WAS and was keen on moving on with her life. And it was tempting not to see my WAW in her. Very similar in personality and interests. There were moments where she would flash me a great smile during the conversation. There were other moments when she would flick her hair and I would wonder if WAW was doing the same with another man, still intent on moving on. As we were leaving, she asked for my card to pass to a friend of hers who she said she would refer to me, and giving me hers. A nice way to leave the door open I thought.

I thought about our conversation for a long time and with a mixed bag of feelings. The connection was good but I felt guilty that I enjoyed her company. At the same time, it was like I had a backstage pass to the 'other' side of a WAW which was fascinating. How casual she seemed to be about her husband and their separation. I couldn't help but think if he could be on this board trying to find a way to save their M. And how easy it could turn out for me to be the OM in their situation and one more hurdle for them to overcome. I found it interesting she still kept referring to him as 'my husband'. That really hit me. I am playing with fire here.

My buddy asked me what I thought of her. It was fun chatting and interesting chatting with her but I told him I was not there yet. I won't stop her but I won't give up on W just yet. He took it in stride. What I didn't tell him was how very much that night made me feel that W may really be done.

As it happens, W and I are talking on the phone tomorrow. The first time in a month despite the frequent 'logistics' emails we have been trading back and forth.


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
Joined: Oct 2013
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Wow, Where to begin?

A lot seems to have happened over the last week and a half but I will try to keep it short.

One of our windows spontaneously exploded a few days ago. Completely shattered. Some neighbors said it could be due to the heat as there was no sign of any vandalism. I emailed W to let her know and we had a very friendly back and forth about it.

We then talked over the weekend by phone to catch up. We kept the conversation very light but it is the first time since March that we didn't talk about divorce, separation or logistics. It was simply catching up.

I got caught up on her new job and what she is enjoying about it. She seemed to be really interested in the new firm I am joining and what I would be doing. She even was offering up advice about some of the work we will be focusing on. This was a bit surprising as for the last year, she has not really asked anything about work or my plans. Whenever the topic would come up, she would feign an excuse and walk away.

Funny thing is that I was planning on ending the call on a positive note but we got disconnected and could not reconnect. She texted me asking if I could call back. We both tried calling back but no luck getting through for some odd reason. She could hear me but I couldn't hear her. She seemed disappointed and texted if there was something else I wanted to talk about. I said it was simply nice to catch up and she appeared to be surprised at that, replying 'Oh' and 'Yeah, it was nice catching up and to hear how you are'.

We talked for about an hour before we got disconnected. It felt good, natural. Our last phone chat was in early July and was incredibly awkward.

On top of that, I met up with my brother-in-law and to find out that he and his wife are expecting their second kid in a few months time. This was bittersweet realizing the very real likely hood that I may not be a part of their world. I have already missed out on most of my little niece's second year. I kept the conversation focused on him, my sister-in-law and my niece. Nothing about W which I am not sure how he received.

Then my brother called to let me know he has asked his long time girlfriend to marry him! Incredible news as they are a really great couple.

I have been kept busy at work though I do recall reading on someone else's thread that some of us use work as a way to run away from the reality of our situations. I have to think about that. I do worry about her less and less and find I am not worrying about our situation as much though I still have moments of fear. I still pray for her every morning that she will be safe and make the right decision.

Still, after the call we had, I couldn't help but feel happy about it. It has been a long time since we simply had a conversation. And it felt good.


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 180
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A roller coaster of a day. Someone found W's profile on a dating site and told me. I shouldn't be surprised as she made it clear she was planning on moving on but still it is very devastating to hear.

I shouldn't have got my hopes up after last week's call but I did. And it really hurts to fall back to the reality of how determined she is that there is no hope for us.

Any advice on what I should do?


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
Joined: Oct 2013
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I had to leave the group of people I was hanging out with when I heard the news as I could barely keep it together. And then broke down on the drive home.

Trying to see the positive if any here. Possible that OM is out of the picture. But all I'm basing this on is that she appears to be making herself available. Or am I just fooling myself.


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
Joined: Oct 2013
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I cried, I prayed for help as to what I should do, read through my db notes. Then I caved in and used my friend's account to check out W's dating profile. And there she is, with a picture from our engagement as her main photo. And all the things she is looking for in a man. I felt very tired and defeated.

I had made plans last night to go to a church music worship session before all of this. I was glad I did go even though I had to drag myself out of the house.
But the music was exactly what I needed, providing a lot of comfort. And it sounds cliche but it was very powerful and uplifting.

As I sat in the parking lot, I opened up the 'The Love Dare'. I have been reading through this but have not been able to do many of the dares involving W given our geographic distance. But Day 39 of the book is titled 'Love Endures'. And the love dare is to spend time in personal prayer and then to write a letter of commitment and resolve to the spouse.

And at this point in the game, I think this may be the best course to take. She always loved my love letters to her. And even during the last couple of years, my letters have helped thaw out some icy moments.

I really welcome advice on this. Given the context of my situation, any points I should consider?


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
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Hi Anders, yes I know the pain of seeing your W's dating profile. My first advice is simple - stop snooping! What you don't know cannot hurt you. Perhaps you are like me, I am weak and snoop as a form of self-punishment. I need to grow healthier and stop wanting to hurt myself. But I've stayed away from snooping for over a week, and so can you.

Second, I don't know your sitch but from my quick glance of your recent posts it seems you are having too much contact with your W. An hour long conversation, texting her about your interesting story of a window exploding, etc. I don't know but I think you could benefit from pulling back from her. Don't initiate contact with her, and see what happens. I know its painful, but see if pulling back helps. Good luck.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

“The strongest of all warriors are these two — Time and Patience.” War and Peace
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Thanks Wet. I was really blindsided by this one. Regular Sat. afternoon, enjoying some good conversation when I hear the news about W's dating profile.

And you are right. I never thought of the pain of discovery from snooping as self-punishment.

Comms have ramped up a bit the past month after long periods of NC over the past five months. I had been taking this as a positive sign. Until my email to her about the window last week, she had been the one initiating contact mainly by text. I thought it was an opportune moment to initiate while having a valid reason and not coming across as pursuing.


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
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What have you been doing for your own GAL efforts?


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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Thanks for dropping in MrBond. On my GAL:

-Spending time every week with friends: dinners, BBQs, coffee catch-ups, festivals and concerts.
-Prayer and church.
-Running, yoga and weights 5 times a week.
-Reading a lot of books and material with a focus on my life's purpose: relationships & marriage, separation & divorce, self/spiritual growth, business development, attachment & detachment.
-Spending as much time as I can soaking in the sun and the summer weather.
-I have also been kept busy at work as I wrap to make my transition to a smaller firm (aligned to my life's purpose).


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
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So on Sunday, W sent me an email about the window:

W: Thanks for taking care of this. Curious to know what happened but I guess we will never know.
Maybe the house missed the puppy and the glass self imploded?

Me: Lol! A bit of a stretch but within the realm of possibility ; )


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
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I'm still trying to stay focused on my strategy of creating a safe space for us to communicate honestly as we have been slowly emerging from NC.

But in the last week, I wonder if this is still the right approach or if I am sending signals that I don't have any intentions of attempting a reconciliation?


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
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Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
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^bump^


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
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Originally Posted By: Anders
A roller coaster of a day. Someone found W's profile on a dating site and told me. I shouldn't be surprised as she made it clear she was planning on moving on but still it is very devastating to hear.

I shouldn't have got my hopes up after last week's call but I did. And it really hurts to fall back to the reality of how determined she is that there is no hope for us.

Any advice on what I should do?




So you know, I posted on a dating site when H and i were sep. And I dated (as did he). 2 of the men I dated were very cool and very desirable.


So the good news is that they are out there, AND I've "Still got it".

But The OTHER GOOD NEWS IS'

that it turns out my h and i are really quite well suited for each other. Dating OMs was a great reminder of that.

Don't assume every date or every OM/OW is a great catch AND that it convinces the WAS that a divorce is the answer.

ON the contrary, there were times I wished I could rush home to H's arms, missing him MORE...

and other times, when I'd had "good dates", still sometimes made me feel bittersweet. b/c I'd think 'if h and I could only have had a night like THIS", etc.

The point is, a lot of a strong marriage with a deep bond is hard to duplicate or replace and there are simply times that it seems only meeting OPs can show you that.

It's like yes the grass is green over there and in some places a bit greener BUT I CAN MAKE THIS GRASS GREENER TOO.

and other times you just shake your head and pray your spouse is also thinking''

something like "h/w would have known I was joking/or "would have laughed at that one"

and or, "spouse would have picked THAT, and this would have been so great"

OR when the new person misses the point, or chooses the "wrong" movie or misinterprets things, hey, there is a lot to be said for familiarity. IT's not all bad at all.

THAT is when you miss your bff. And if you once were really bonded and close, she won't forget that.

Takes a lot of time to FIND that and then build it. It's not instant at all, AND that assumes she'd meet a great guy AND that he is also ready for a real R.


I think you backed off too fast after pushing for a dvorce and you seem to have "forgotten" how you guys got here. It's not as if she was alone.

You played a big fat role in the original situation.****SO what are YOU DOING Differently so you two do't get here again and can you commit to a marriage in which you both share a home? IF NOT< then this is a set up for failure.***

FYI I did NOT agree with your original "go dark" approach when you had ALSO been the one to bring up divorce and then push for it.

You asked me to stop by and let you know, and that's how I see it so far.

I'll keep reading and IF my opinion changes, I'll let you know.

So far that is my .02


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

So you know, I posted on a dating site when H and i were sep. And I dated (as did he). 2 of the men I dated were very cool and very desirable.


So the good news is that they are out there, AND I've "Still got it".

But The OTHER GOOD NEWS IS'

that it turns out my h and i are really quite well suited for each other. Dating OMs was a great reminder of that.

Don't assume every date or every OM/OW is a great catch AND that it convinces the WAS that a divorce is the answer.

ON the contrary, there were times I wished I could rush home to H's arms, missing him MORE...

and other times, when I'd had "good dates", still sometimes made me feel bittersweet. b/c I'd think 'if h and I could only have had a night like THIS", etc.

The point is, a lot of a strong marriage with a deep bond is hard to duplicate or replace and there are simply times that it seems only meeting OPs can show you that.

It's like yes the grass is green over there and in some places a bit greener BUT I CAN MAKE THIS GRASS GREENER TOO.

and other times you just shake your head and pray your spouse is also thinking''

something like "h/w would have known I was joking/or "would have laughed at that one"

and or, "spouse would have picked THAT, and this would have been so great"

OR when the new person misses the point, or chooses the "wrong" movie or misinterprets things, hey, there is a lot to be said for familiarity. IT's not all bad at all.

THAT is when you miss your bff. And if you once were really bonded and close, she won't forget that.

Takes a lot of time to FIND that and then build it. It's not instant at all, AND that assumes she'd meet a great guy AND that he is also ready for a real R.



^^^^^THIS should be a sticky. This is what I believe a LBS who's S is having an A or is dating needs to hear.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 180
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Anders Offline OP
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Thanks 25years for coming by and for your honest and very insightful thoughts on my situation. Just getting back to the board today after a busy week with work transition.

You are absolutely right. I own a very big part of all of this. And I am struggling to find a way to help us out of this without pushing her even further away.

I had been going back and forth on my approach so far. Most voices both on the board and offline had been advocating for giving her space and time. Since May, I have been projecting that though I do not want us to end that I am okay with what she ultimately decides. This was with the intent not to pursue and push her further away.

I have been initiating contact a bit more, picking up on the increased communication from her since July but still being very cautious about it. But no overt talks about our situation, reconciliation or divorce.

Quote:
***SO what are YOU DOING Differently so you two do't get here again and can you commit to a marriage in which you both share a home? IF NOT< then this is a set up for failure.***


In the last few weeks, I have been reflecting on this and feel that the right thing to do at this point in time would be to call her and have the reconciliation talk honestly. I was actually planning to do so tonight and came on the board to get perspective on this when I read your note.

I have tried to keep every interaction we have had as positive and upbeat as possible without pursuing her in the slightest. My goal was to try and re-create a safe enough space for us to talk openly again without hiding behind the screen of logistics discussions on finances.

But most important and the most challenging work has been addressing my own fears instead of running away every time. She doesn't feel safe with me and this is a big part of it.

Last edited by Anders; 09/06/14 03:45 PM. Reason: grammar

M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 180
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Anders Offline OP
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Quote:
But The OTHER GOOD NEWS IS'

that it turns out my h and i are really quite well suited for each other. Dating OMs was a great reminder of that.

Don't assume every date or every OM/OW is a great catch AND that it convinces the WAS that a divorce is the answer.


Thank you 25years for sharing the other perspective on dating and the potential positive side to this. This is incredibly wise advice.

By coincidence, a female friend also gave me the same perspective (she's the only woman I have been getting advice on this as well as from her husband). After they had split a few years ago, she was initially excited about the prospect of dating again but after a few dates, realized just how much she still loved her husband. They are now back together though not many people knew about their split in the first place. She is urging patience and that it is better for W to figure out what she really wants than for me to coax her back leaving doubts lingering in her mind about other people. I am hoping she can do that without dating.


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
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Originally Posted By: Anders
Quote:
But The OTHER GOOD NEWS IS'

that it turns out my h and i are really quite well suited for each other. Dating OMs was a great reminder of that.

Don't assume every date or every OM/OW is a great catch AND that it convinces the WAS that a divorce is the answer.


Thank you 25years for sharing the other perspective on dating and the potential positive side to this. This is incredibly wise advice.

By coincidence, a female friend also gave me the same perspective (she's the only woman I have been getting advice on this as well as from her husband). After they had split a few years ago, she was initially excited about the prospect of dating again but after a few dates, realized just how much she still loved her husband. They are now back together though not many people knew about their split in the first place. She is urging patience and that it is better for W to figure out what she really wants than for me to coax her back leaving doubts lingering in her mind about other people.

Coaxing her back won't work in the long run even if it somehow gets her back home initially. The more you challenge her choices, the more you force her to defend them. Don't.

Let her discover this, let her solve the puzzle without you standing over her shoulder telling her where to put the pieces. That is not her "learning" something, that's you controlling or manipulating the outcome. Even if she came back, if she has not learned what SHE NEEDS TO LEARN on her own, you'll be back here in a year or two.

If you were once both in love and bonded, you will need to trust that when she feels safe enough, those memories and feelings will resurface. But she can't "allow" that if she does not feel safe around you. Her fears include the big one that if she returns to you and the marriage, it'll revert and you will revert and she'll be worse off than before. She'll feel fooled and trapped. WORK ON YOU.


I am hoping she can do that without dating.


Why? Why must she NOT date? I know how the ego feels but it's as if you are assuming she'd sleep with OM's and many of us do NOT do that when we first date.

FWIW, I know from experience (from before marriage) that even if she were to sleep with OM, do not assume it'll be the greatest sex she ever had. You need to figure out where your fears are really coming from.

I'm not insecure about my looks in general, okay? I'm confident that men find me attractive and I apologize if that sounds arrogant.

The point is, that even so, I still worry about the stretch marks I have from childbirth. So the idea of another man seeing those without being the father of those kids, well, it would mean I'd either have to be drunk (not likely) or VERY trusting of the OM.

And that takes time. It would take a lot of time for me to trust OM enough to sleep with him. My sisters mostly say the same thing, but I can't speak for all women obviously. I'm just saying you may have to get past this fear of her dating.

If you realize it's your ego talking, and your fears, then ask yourself What are you afraid she'd find if she dated other men?

Men who treat her better? Who will love her more than you?

IF so, you have more work to do than you thought.

Dig deep and see what it is. If it's simply the idea of her kissing another man, then it's just plain old insecure feelings. You know she probably had relationships before she met you. Do those haunt you?


If it's b/c you fear that another man would treat her better or make her feel better about herself, then that is an area for YOU to work on.


The good news is you CAN work on that, regardless of what she is doing/thinking or planning, or how she feels today.

All those things^^^ --the plans, emotions, etc, can change anyhow.

Work on you.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 180
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Anders Offline OP
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Some tough questions I have been mulling over 25:

Quote:
Why? Why must she NOT date? I know how the ego feels but it's as if you are assuming she'd sleep with OM's and many of us do NOT do that when we first date.
That is reassuring to hear on sex. Up to the point of reading your perspective on dating, in my mind, dating implied sex with others, finality and certainty to the end of us. The end of any hope or possibility of reconciliation. And the reason why I have chosen not to date anyone else during this time.

And it is hearing the stories of couples who after reconciling, have struggled with the choices they made in seeing other people, which made the journey back that much harder.

Quote:
If you realize it's your ego talking, and your fears, then ask yourself What are you afraid she'd find if she dated other men? Men who treat her better? Who will love her more than you?

IF so, you have more work to do than you thought.

Dig deep and see what it is. If it's simply the idea of her kissing another man, then it's just plain old insecure feelings. You know she probably had relationships before she met you. Do those haunt you?


Our history is somewhat of a unique one. Up to two years ago, I can say for certain that we had only ever been with each other sexually. There had been no one else for either of us. And the thought of her being physical intimate with another man: Kissing, sex, brings up both physical and emotional feelings: anger, sadness, hopelessness, nausea, feeling winded.

There is a seeming finality to dating/sleeping with others within the context of our relationship. It was something we both treasured and valued, understanding the uniqueness of this bond.

It is the reason I asked for the divorce and went dark after finding out about her EA, and the OM.

There is also a huge cultural aspect from my side of the family. A man whose wife has left, and is openly dating and/or sleeping with other people, and especially so when the marriage is not yet formally dissolved, is the ultimate sign of failure and shame. And this extends to the whole of my family. I failed due to my deficiencies. And by proxy, my family failed in bringing me up properly and are all failures.

Unlike the past EAs/OM, this time she is quite open in the fact that she is looking to date others. And there is no doubt that we would not be here if I had my act together. She did not feel safe emotionally or have that certainty about us (my read). We created such a distance out of our fears, lack of communication, intimacy and trust.

That being said, avoiding humiliating my family is not my objective here. It is to live a life of purpose and love, and ideally with my current wife, sharing in this journey together.

I understand why she is in this place. But it still does not make it any easier for me to process and to come to terms with this.

Quote:
And that takes time. It would take a lot of time for me to trust OM enough to sleep with him. My sisters mostly say the same thing, but I can't speak for all women obviously. I'm just saying you may have to get past this fear of her dating.


You have given me a ray of hope here 25. Even as I write this, she has just sent me another email asking about my first week at the new job.

As I switch gears, I am still figuring out the best way to expand our conversation beyond the 'surface' level topics. My read is that these emails and texts are her way of slowly nudging the door open. But I am worried that I may be moving too slowly.


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 180
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Anders Offline OP
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Quote:
...can you commit to a marriage in which you both share a home? IF NOT< then this is a set up for failure.***


I definitely agree with you 25 on this point. The whole divorce ultimatum centred on us living in the same house and her ending the EA, which I handled very badly.

My work transition to this new place has been deliberate as it would allow me the flexibility to work from pretty much anywhere I choose to after the first four months when I have to be here.

This is where I feel stuck and have been thinking over what would be the best course to take. Here is what I have been mulling:

1. Write to her to acknowledge my part in all of this and how much I have hurt her, especially by giving up on us with the divorce ultimatum.

And/or

2. Give her a couple of days and then call to talk about what the best way forward would be.

Or

3. Continue to play it very slow using each interaction to increase her level of comfort and trust. Let her be the one to make the call on making up or moving on.


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
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